₦airaland Forum

Scholar8200:
47 If your eye causes you to stumble and sin, throw it out [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]! It would be better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm [that feeds on the dead] does not die, and the fire is not put out.
Mark 9:47,48

Sodom and Gomorrah burned with eternal fire. Are they still burning today?

Check 2 Pet. 2:6. The eternal fire that will burn the wicked is a fire that will not be put out till it completes its work of total and complete annihilation of sin, sinners and the devil.

Scholar8200:
In fact this passage underscores the immortality of the soul since it speaks of the people so destroyed as currently undergoing judgement.

"...the soul that sinneth shall die" Ezek. 18:4.

Scholar8200:
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent cities, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in gross immoral freedom and unnatural vice and sensual perversity. They are exhibited [in plain sight] as an example in undergoing the punishment of everlasting fire

Jude 7

Let us allow the Bible explain what example it is talking about: "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Pet. 2:6

It is now clear what the fate of sinners will be. The eternal fire which brought Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes is the fire that will exterminate sinners at the end.

That in no way supports the theory of the immortality of the soul.

Scholar8200:
Explain that passage in Matthew 25:46 at least that one is not in Revelations and it says the same thing as regards a continual state of torment! Contrary to your rather aloof stance of annihilation!

The "Continual state of torment" doctrine is completely unbiblical. The word "eternal" as Jesus uses it there means that the punishment which sinners will suffer will be their final, total and complete end. (See Jude 7). It doesn't mean that sinners will be alive forever in hell burning.

Meanwhile, if sinners will be in hell be alive forever in hell burning, doesn't that negate the Bible teaching that only the righteous ones will live forever? If sinners are alive forever burning, that means they have eternal life too, just that they spend theirs in a place different from where the righteous people spend theirs. But the Bible is clear that only the righteous ones will live forever with GOD.

So, the "unending torment" doctrine is totally unbiblical.

Scholar8200:
Explain this in the light of your claim:
Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.” Matthew 25:46

Using this to support your claim of the immortality of the soul is wrong! Now, consider this verse: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" Jude 7.

It is quite obvious that Sodom is not still burning today. The Dead Sea rolls over the place where those ancient cities once stood. Yet the Bible says that Sodom burned with an "eternal" fire. What does that mean?

Eternal fire, as applied to Sodom above, refers to a fire that cannot be quenched till it has accomplished it's purpose of complete destruction.

Now, the Bible definition of the soul?

“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” Genesis 2:7

After GOD formed man, he was just a lifeless structure made of dust. Then GOD breathed into his nostrils, "and man became a living soul". It is now clear that the body plus the breath of life makes up the soul.

Notice also these two words in Gen. 2:7 - "living soul". If there is a living soul, there can also be a dead soul. This is in stark contrast to the popular teaching that the soul cannot die.

The soul, therefore, is not an immortal entity, neither is the soul separate from the body.

According to the Bible, only one person has immortality:
“King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen” 1 Tim 6:15, 16.

Nobody, apart from GOD, has immortality.

The doctrine that the human soul is immortal is a terrible lie! There is absolutely no text in the Bible that supports that lie. When a man dies, he is in a complete and total state of rest. The notion that he merely leaves his physical body and goes elsewhere is a terrible lie which has no foundation in the Bible. This lie found its way into the Church in the middle ages when apostasy began creeping into the church and false doctrines such as spiritism, immortality of the soul (which are purely pagan beliefs) began gaining wide acceptance in the church.

Nevertheless, we are not left unguided. The Bible is there to guide us.

Now, consider this Bible text in clear contrast with the immortality of the soul:
"...the soul that sinneth shall die" Ezek.18:4

Suffice it to say that the Bible definition of "soul" is not the popular definition of the soul. Majority hold the view that the soul is a separate entity from the body, although a part of being, which is immortal. This is not Biblical.

Scholar8200:
That is because I can only say what the bible says viz Jesus came to fulfil the Law and Prophets, no more, no less!

Now why were the pharisees always at loggerheads with Him as regards the sabbath?

Why did Jesus call Himself the Lord of the sabbath?

Answer my question with yes or no and I will answer your own questions: Did Jesus Christ obey the 10 Commandments of GOD when He was on earth?

Scholar8200:
For me to answer your question, ask thus,''Did Jesus Christ obey the 10 commandments as He said He did in ( give book, chapter and verse)

LOL. Why is this question hard for you to answer? Why do you want me to provide a Bible verse? For all your knowledge of the Bible and its teachings, haven't you the slightest of ideas whether Jesus Christ obeyed the 10 Commandments when He was on earth or not? Indeed, they search the Scriptures but they still don't know who the Scriptures are talking about (Jn. 5:39).

I still want you to give me the answer you would give someone who doesn't know Jesus: Did Jesus Christ obey the 10 Commandments of GOD when He was on earth? Yes or No?

Scholar8200:
and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Philipians 3:9

Can you explain what Paul meant when He said he established/upheld the Law in Romans 3:31? If this is the same Law which you claim has been done away with, how is it that Paul establishes it?

The funny part of this is that this particular epistle was written to Romans, those you would refer to as "gentiles". There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ, anyway.

So, if as you claimed, "gentiles" were not admonished to keep the Holy Sabbath of GOD, how is it that Paul tells the Romans, "We establish the law"? Is the Holy Sabbath of GOD not part of the Law Paul established/upheld?

Also, did Jesus keep the 10 Commandments of GOD when He was on earth? Yes or No?

Scholar8200:
Dead to sin not by following the law but by faith in Christ!

The Jesus Christ you have faith in, did He live by the 10 Commandments when He was on earth? Yes or No?

Scholar8200:
Pray, show me where He said this should be done as a means of receiving eternal life! (When He even told a member of the sanhedrin and a high standing Jew/Pharisee, except a man be born again, born of the Spirit)

When the Bible states that NO ONE is justified by the law?

So Jesus spotlessness arose from keeping the Law What heresy!!!

Did Jesus Christ keep the 10 Commandments of GOD when He was on earth? Yes or No?

Scholar8200:
The royal law is not the 10 commandments! Jesus fulfilled all the Law and the prophets, He said this Himself. Besides, that passage was not written to Jesus, or about Jesus!

What then is the royal Law? If the 10 Commandments which were written by the finger of GOD, the King of the universe, is not royal, which law is royal then?

Did Jesus Obey the 10 Commandments of GOD when He was on earth? Yes or No?

Scholar8200:
Specify that which I nullify.
You will need to level these accusations to those who wrote the NT who, having far better understanding of the law than you, wrote such as:

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:4

There are two dispensations, Moses- Law, Jesus- Grace and Truth(that sets free from sin and its power).

Which Law is Moses'?

Scholar8200:
Say that to the writer of Romans 7 and 8 and He Who Inspired him. Besides, do you realise that the law stops at this point and justifies NO ONE?

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:16,17

The law only brings us to Christ:

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto [size=14pt]Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/size] 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster
Galatians 3:24,25

If you as a Christian claim you are no longer obliged to keeping the 10 Commandments, which means you have nothing to do with the 10 Commandments again, how then do you know what sin is to avoid it? What now is a sin to a Christian?

Scholar8200:
The Old covenant and New covenant with all their various terms were by God's design! It is a case of one dispensation giving way for the other. Hence the dichotomy you are trying to make has no place.

You have not answered my question. If you claim you have been released from GOD's moral Law, and are now under Christ's Law, do you mean GOD has His own Laws while Christ has His own Laws? And the Bible told us that GOD's law is eternal (Psalm 119:160). Was the Law of GOD which is holy, righteous, good and eternal set aside for a new Law?

Also, did Jesus obey the 10 Commandments (moral Law of GOD) when He was on earth?

Scholar8200:
And Jesus fulfilled those commandments and that is also done by the Spirit for those who believe on Jesus! Romans 8:3,4. That is why Jesus called us to believe on Him (He being the True Vine and we the branches sharing the same life) because the law came by Moses, Grace and Truth came by Jesus.

If you agree Jesus commanded us not to break any of those laws, why do you continue in disobedience to His words?

You seem to assert too much the fact that Jesus "fulfilled the Law". Can you please define what "fulfill" means? What happened to the Law after it was fulfilled?

Did Jesus obey the 10 Commandments when He was on earth?

Scholar8200:
When we abide in Him, we receive grace to live in victory over sin. John defines sin as transgression of the law but reveals that the way of freedom is Christ: believing on, and abiding in Him (not the law).
Jesus was so named because ,''He would save... from their sins''. That is what the law could not do.
All men are born sinners hence no amount of striving to keep the law will justify us. But when we receive the righteousness of God (see Romans 3:19-22 through faith in Christ, we are made free from sin and enabled by Grace to live in righteousness and holiness.

Did Jesus Christ obey the 10 Commandments when He was on earth? Yes or No?

Scholar8200:
The righteous demands with all its application to heart disposition and external actions is made possible for me by the Spirit that came after I believed. Hence I dont try to please God by straining after the 10 commandments! Rather I endeavour to walk in the Spirit by continual faith.

Did Jesus Obey the 10 Commandments when He was on earth? Yes or No?

Scholar8200:
HE FULFILLED THE LAW, ITS RIGHTEOUS DEMANDS, TYPES AND SHADOWS ENDING THE OT AND USHERING IN THE NEW COVENANT! THAT IS WHY HE COULD INSTITUTE THE LORD'S SUPPER IN PLACE OF THE PASSOVER.
Do you realise that the passover too was to be observed forever Exodus 12:14 that pointed to He that would fulfil all things!

For this debate to continue, you have to answer the question: Did Jesus Christ obey the 10 Commandments when He was on earth? Yes or No?

Scholar8200:
Through Christ! The Spirit inspired Paul to write what he wrote.

...made under the law, to redeem them that are under the law, that we might we receive the adoption of sons
Galatians 4:4b,5

We were sinners and were helpless to attain the righteous demands of the law. Jesus came, fulfilled the law (so He owed no debt arising from a violated law), and died paying the penalty we deserved for violating the law. As we identify by faith with His death, we are also freed from the demands of the law we violated but He imparts His nature and by the Holy Spirit indwelling us enable us to live a life that meets and satisfies the righteous demands of the law
Romans 8:1-4

The Law demands you don't steal, kill, bear false witness. Have you been freed from these demands?

Scholar8200:
Through Christ! The Spirit inspired Paul to write what he wrote.

...made under the law, to redeem them that are under the law, that we might we receive the adoption of sons
Galatians 4:4b,5

We were sinners and were helpless to attain the righteous demands of the law. Jesus came, fulfilled the law (so He owed no debt arising from a violated law), and died paying the penalty we deserved for violating the law. As we identify by faith with His death, we are also freed from the demands of the law we violated but He imparts His nature and by the Holy Spirit indwelling us enable us to live a life that meets and satisfies the righteous demands of the law
Romans 8:1-4

So how do you relate this with Rom. 6:1 and 1 Jn 3:4?

malvisguy212:
you don't know what you are saying here, are you a jew ? Scripture say, the latter kill but the spirit give life, what does it mean ? Keeping the law, will NEVER made you holy, if keeping the law will bring righteousness in you, then the bible is wrong for saying " salvation is of the Lord". In Titus 3:5 the bible indicate, Good works are not the MEANS of salvation but in verse 8 the bible say Good works are the RESULT of salvation. Honestly, you do not know what you are saying.

I have a question for you: did Jesus obey the 10 Commandments when He was on earth?

Scholar8200:
Let Paul, nay, the Spirit answer:

...the Law of the Spirit of Life In Christ Jesus Romans 8:2


John further says:
...the doctrine of Christ... 2 John 9

Jesus seals it up thus:
...all that I have commanded you...Matthew 28:20

Did Jesus also not command you not to break any of the commandments of GOD nor teach men to do so? (Matt. 5:17-19)

Scholar8200:
Let Paul, nay, the Spirit answer:

...the Law of the Spirit of Life In Christ Jesus Romans 8:2


John further says:
...the doctrine of Christ... 2 John 9

Jesus seals it up thus:
...all that I have commanded you...Matthew 28:20

Answer with yes or no: Does GOD have His own commandments while Christ has His own commandments?

malvisguy212:
you don't know what you are saying here, are you a jew ? Scripture say, the latter kill but the spirit give life, what does it mean ? Keeping the law, will NEVER made you holy, if keeping the law will bring righteousness in you, then the bible is wrong for saying " salvation is of the Lord". In Titus 3:5 the bible indicate, Good works are not the MEANS of salvation but in verse 8 the bible say Good works are the RESULT of salvation. Honestly, you do not know what you are saying.

Romans 6:1-2 "...Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? GOD forbid!..."

What is sin? 1 Jn 3:4 "...Sin is the transgression of the Law"

What have you to say about these verses?

Scholar8200:
It talks about the testimony of Jesus referring to the NT and redemption He accomplished on the Cross; this is a continual refrain in Heaven as Revelations 5:9 shows.

In the NT, the commandments we obey after we believe is the One given by He Who justified us and Who fulfilled the law. He told the disciples thus:

..teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have COMMANDED you... Matthew 28:20
He said quite a lot and gives grace that enables us but He was silent on sabbath observance!

What does Matt. 5:17-19 talk about teaching men to disregard any part of GOD's law?

Scholar8200:
It talks about the testimony of Jesus referring to the NT and redemption He accomplished on the Cross; this is a continual refrain in Heaven as Revelations 5:9 shows.

In the NT, the commandments we obey after we believe is the One given by He Who justified us and Who fulfilled the law. He told the disciples thus:

..teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have COMMANDED you... Matthew 28:20
He said quite a lot and gives grace that enables us but He was silent on sabbath observance!

So, is Christ's commandments different from GOD's commandments?

Scholar8200:
Let Paul, nay , the Spirit answer you:

But after that faith is come, we are no longer a school master Galatians 3:24,25

However,

When we believe on Christ and walk in the Spirit, the righteous demands of the law is fulfilled in us by reason of the Life that we receive from Him Who fulfilled the Law.

Now, if you are no longer under the moral Law of GOD as you claim, under whose law are you now?

Scholar8200:
God forbid! The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ and when we come to Christ, through identification with Him, we are dead to the schoolmaster, free to be joined to Him that rose from the dead that we may walk in newness of life and live unto God not in the oldness of the letter!

GOD is Holy, Righteous and Good. The Law is Holy, righteous and good(Rom. 7:12). How can we be alive to GOD (who is Holy, righteous and good) and dead to the Law (which is Holy, righteous and good)?

Scholar8200:
He fulfilled the law.

LOL. Since you don't know whether He obeyed the 10 Commandments or not, explain the word "FULFILL" as used in that text.