₦airaland Forum

mamsong9:
What I know for sure is that, if you don't believe in God the father, god the son, and god the holy spirit, then you are not a Christian.
So, you are a Trinitarian if you are not answer the name Christian.

Then what you know for sure is wrong. It is time you learn something new.

One of the main difference between the islamic sharia society and western liberal society is that in the former unmarried girls get stoned after having sex while in the later unmarried girls get stoned before having sex.
You can bet your house that there will be absolute absence of joy in that school, and the grim prospect of stoning a miscreant girl for having sex its only source of entertainment.

Under sharia girls get stoned for having sex, while under secular democracy girls get stoned to have sex. Hmm...not quite different after all, or is it?

ibe9ja:
So this is not of public interest?

Please what is the yoruba word for "Ode"?

It is ode.

plaetton:
Great post johnnydon22.

This what I battle with Christians all the time.
But no matter how many times and in how many different ways I try to task their minds on this issue, they never seem to get it.

I have always said false and fraudulent religions seem to have very strong safe-lock mechanisms and other psychological redundancies that prevents them from thinking beyond some , often self-centered, parameters.

It amazes me that the religion founded in the name of Jesus has become the MOST selfish moral philosophy on earth.

I disagree with your opening statement since I am a christian and I get it. But I do understand where you are coming from and would instead have said that for a few exceptions, christians don't get it. Which would have been a more accurate statement but nonetheless depressing.
When I was child of age eight the song "some have food but cannot eat" always made me sad whenever it was being sang.Though I felt there was something wrong with the song, I wasn't quite sure what it was until years later when i heard some children happily singing it before a meal that I realised that the song was inspired by pure evil that promotes selfishness instead of love that makes us more compassionate.

You can imagine how disgusted I felt some years ago when a neighbour friend of mine said to me; "thank God. I thought it was you". She had come to express her condolence to other members of my family thinking it was I that died in a car crash and not my brother.

Raymondenyi:
Christianity doesn't change people from who they are; the compassionate ones like me; will always be; and try helping pople (dat has been my person).. the uncompassionate ones, will rather thank God their neighbour suffered a bad fate, perhaps becausE they had a quarrel... it takes Extra grace for true Christianity to reflect in people's life...

But I think u should know; Christianity doesn't teach dat; most people abuse the faith..
Jesus thought us to Love; and that is our greatest gift.... but even in church this greatest gift christ promised I grossly lacking...

Christianity like any other religion or ideology that attempts to set standard of how our lives should be regulated has the potential to change people. That is why it is very important for ideas especially those born out of religious beliefs to be examined and subjected to criticism in areas where they are found wanting.

Zeedarh:
Damn! He needs deliverance ASAP

I think not. What he needs is a very lenghty prison sentence with hard labour and little food.

Muslims often describe Muhammed as the best human to ever walk this earth, which I find surprising given that he was a terrorist, a pedeophile and a psychopathic warlord.

daretodiffer:
Ayaff heard

Can you please take the highway now?

It appears that we are on the same side on this issue. Your argument should be with your fellow muslims on this thread that have openly supported these practices in the name of the religion that you claimed is opposed to such barbarity.

To think that the muslims arguing here in support of despicable Arab medieval practices such as child marriage and death for apostasy are the moderates amongst them makes me wonder how much more depraved and backwards the moral values of conservative muslims are.
Images such as the one below should not be happening in this present time if not for the gift of islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thcIUbUh4QE

daretodiffer:
You see

You don't know my religion

It is the home of the prophet but its leaders are worse than the devil

I am talking about view of the average Saudi muslim man and woman. Unless people with such views are guilty of takfir, and are no longer considered to be part of the muslim ummah, then I think calling them conservative muslims is more accurate.

daretodiffer:
You also have to stop using those countries as benchmarks. Saudi Arabia supports maltreatment of domestic workers wheareas in Islam it is forbidden to mistreat your employees
Pakistan is hardly an Islamic country but it is a country unite by the religion.

I use Saudi Arabia as a benchmark because their land is the home of your prophet and they speak the same arabic language that the quran was written in, so one can argue that their understanding of the religion should hold more weight than yours whom I presumes speaks little or no arabic.

daretodiffer:
You have to ask yourself whether those percentage are Muslims in the sense of being a Muslim. Whether these people know that it wasn't expressly/implied in the Qur'an.

As long as these people have not been declared
I thought that muslims regard it as a serious matter to call takfir on a fellow muslim. If they are not real muslims does that make them kafirs?
Bear in mind that more than 90% of Saudis hold the belief that apostasy from islam is punishable by death.

daretodiffer:
And there are several well-respected Muslim Muslim leaders that share my view

I never said that wasn't the case, hence the descriptor "conservative muslims". Unless you want to argue that those muslims who are in support of death penalty for adultery and apostasy (which by the way make up a whopping majority of muslims in countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia) are not real muslims, otherwise you will have to accept that their interpretation is a plausible reading of the quran and the hadith that is no less valid than yours.

daretodiffer:
They are not conservatives. They are extremists. There are millions of Muslims that do not hold the view. .

I am still holding on to my view about you

Here is a video clip of a well respected regular mainstream conservative muslim that holds a view contrary to yours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktVPjQZcI0w

daretodiffer:
Are you crazy?

He is not crazy, just being a good conservative muslim unlike you.

daretodiffer:
Ode!

My quote above wasn't meant to imply that you are not a good muslim, it was just to point out the fact that your position is different from that of millions of ultra-conservative muslims that hold on to a vacuous literalistic medieval interpretation of the quran and the hadiths. Whether the person I quoted is a muslim or not still does not change the fact that there are millions of legitimate muslims that still hold on to such regressive beliefs.

daretodiffer:
http://www.fiqhcouncil.org/node/34


That should explain it.

cc dorox

I read the post despite its length, and all I saw was some lazy attempt by the writer to make islam look less bad and absolve it from some of the barbaric acts done in its name. The guy believes that even if apostasy might not merit a death penalty, it still remain a criminal offence and those found guilty should be detained until such time that they repent.

It is notable that a famous companion, Omar, was disappointed when he learned that an apostate was killed. When asked what he would have done he suggested that the apostate should have been detained and given an opportunity to reconsider his decision. He did not speak of any time limit, which may negate the notion of mandatory capital punishment. The same view was held by two of the generation of “Tabi‘een” , namely Ibrahim Al-Nakh‘I and Sufian Al-Thawri. Some scholars argue that the apostasy in the early days of Islam was in the context of security and war situation. For example, Jamal Al-Banna suggest that: “the notion of apostasy it the time of the Prophet [P] was coupled with animosity against Islam and waging war against it. So, one who believed in him [the Prophet] was endeavoring to support him, and one who apostated was endeavoring to wage war against him and join the idolatrous folk”. 25 He then gives an example the case of Abdullah Ibn Abi Al-Sarh who accepted Islam, then apostated and then went to Makkah to instigate the tribe of Quraish to fight against the Prophet [P]. A similar view was expressed by Shaikh Abdul-Majeed Subh. 26

In summary, the imam believes that it is ok to stone adulterers but not so for apostates unless they are opposed to Muhammed. Tell me again what you think is virtuous with this position? Granted, it appears less bad compared to the Islamic state and Saudi, but not by much.

daretodiffer:
Are you crazy?

He is not crazy, just being a good conservative muslim unlike you.

madjnr:
seems like the bible is more inhumane in dealing with apostate

Show me any country or church that makes use scriptures to justify the killing of apostates today and I will be the first person to unequivocally denounce them in no uncertain words as barbaric and evil.
Theocracy has had its day and it ended centuries ago.

daretodiffer:
I am sorry I made a mistake. I should have mentioned that death of an apostate is onlynin the Hadith. Thee is no mention of that punishment in the Qur'an itself. It has in several verses affirmed that there is no compulsion in religion.

He could disrupt the peace by protesting, instigating people etc which could indirectly cause chaos.

If what you say is true, then Saudi Arabia and all other muslim majority countries where apostasy is a crime punishable by death are actually defaming the image of Muhammed and Islam, which makes me wonder why I don't see a lot of muslims protesting against this very unislamic practice done in the name of islam as they are prone to do when it comes to cartoons.
Moreover, these people are too few and feeble to even hold a protest or to cause chaos, so please tell with particular example how somebody has ever done this in a muslim majority country.

daretodiffer:
Islam allows it if and only if, the subject in question uses it to disrupt the peace of the community.

How can such a person disturb the peace of the community as to warrant the death sentence?

daretodiffer:
Madman, why did you mention me? Are you jinxed or what? If you have a problem and you can't cure for it. You can take the suicide route. I have got no love for you.

Would you care to share your opinion as a muslim on the issue of apostasy?

I would really like to hear what a nairaland muslim thinks about this blatant display of medieval barbarity in the name of Islam by the Saudi judiciary.
Awaiting a reply from AbuKhair, madjnr, Empiree and company.

domopps:
Op are u saying no xtians in Saudi Arabia and the entire middle east?





Cheeeeerz

Below is an excerpt from Wikipedia that answers your question.

There are more than a million Roman Catholics in Saudi Arabia. Most of them are expatriate Filipinos who work there, but who do not have the citizenship of Saudi Arabia.[1][2] The percentage of Christians of all denominations among the about 1.2 million Filipinos in Saudi Arabia likely exceeds 90%.[3] There are also Christians from Canada, the United States of America, New Zealand, Australia, Italy, Greece, South Korea, Ireland, the United Kingdom, India, China, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Kenya, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and as well a number of Christians from sub-Saharan countries who are working in the Saudi Kingdom.[3]

Saudi Arabia allows Christians to enter the country as foreign workers for temporary work, but does not allow them to practice their faith openly. Because of that Christians generally only worship within private homes.[3] Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are prohibited.[3] These include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols, and others.[3]

The Saudi Arabian Mutaween (Arabic: مطوعين‎), or Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (i.e., the religious police) prohibits the practice of any religion other than Islam.[3] Conversion of a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy,[3] a crime punishable by death if the accused does not recant.[3] The Government does not permit non-Muslim clergy to enter the country for the purpose of conducting religious services.[3] In spite of this, a 2015 study estimates that there are some 60,000 Christian with a Muslim background living in the country, though that does not mean that all of those are citizens of the country.[4]

International Christian Concern (ICC) protested what it reported as the 2001 detention of 11 Christians in Saudi Arabia, for practicing their religion in their homes.[5] In June 2004, at least 46 Christians were arrested in what the ICC described as a "pogrom-like" action by Saudi police. The arrests took place shortly after the media reported that a Quran had been desecrated in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.[6]

Christians and other non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the cities of Mecca and Medina, Islam's holiest cities.[3]

Churches[edit]
Currently there are no official churches in Saudi Arabia of any Christian denomination.[3] The small number of Saudi Arabian Christians meets in internet chat rooms and private meetings.[3] However, there are cases in which a Muslim will adopt the Christian faith, secretly declaring his/her faith. In effect, they are practising Christians, but legally Muslims.

The op is still a learner.

OLAADEGBU:
All tithes belong to God. (Leviticus 27:30).

All tithes belongs to Pastor

We are getting very close to the point where stupidìty would no longer be considered a valid excuse for being deceived by the charlatan that is TB Joshua.

The Malaysian airline was shot down on the 17th of July, 2014 while flying over a war zone on the borders of Russia and Ukraine, But our ever seeing TB Joshua had to wait till the 31st of August, 2014 to make a prediction of an imminent crash in the same region. Now you might not think much of it, but the long wait of over a month between the Malaysian Airline crash and TB Joshua's prediction of another crash show how shrewd TB Joshua is in playing probabilities.
Soon after the plane was brought down both sides denied responsibilities and the fighting became more subdued as a temporary truce was declared. However, things began to heat up seriously again about a month after the plane crash that was when our dear pastor gambled that since it happened once it can happen twice.
In summary, he made his prediction when the hostilities in that region was at it's peak, that is why he said the crash was imminent.

This video puts big hole to everything in the op.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XLg-SRGMNk

This cartoon perfectly depicts the attitude of muslims.

I would really like to hear what madjnr has to say about Uncle Mo's flying horse.