₦airaland Forum

solite3:
can't you spot the difference between person and being? cc Rozz

I have told him by persons can be meant different individual states/aspects of one Being (substance).
But Maximus69 is desperately looking for how he can divert the thread from three innocent questions I asked him. LMAO

DappaD:
Pastor DrLiveLogic,

When Jesus' disciples asked him for the sign of his presence and when the end would come at Matthew 24, are you saying Jesus was lying to his disciples? Please tell me let me know!

Matthew 24:36

“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.”

Since in your narrative, Jesus and God are the same person, then that means Jesus was lying to his disciples?

This one shock me

DappaD:
Another load of garbage that I won't bother to read.

Bwahahaha! DappaD who denied that God is Omnipresent has spoken again. It's becoming obvious to everyone that all the JWs here will avoid the three simple questions.
Then they will divert to when Jesus became a man and less than the Father.
The simple way to know if Jesus and the Father are equally God is to go back to the beginning and also go to end. Leave out what he did in created existence and go to before and after existence, First and Last.
I have taken you to the end in Apocalypse and you're all running away.

Come back and answer these questions. It's for your own good. Lol.



*** I'm going to continue presenting these questions all together until any of you can attack them all together. I'm not here for rigmaroles. If you can't attack them all together, then Jesus is one Being with YAHWEH

1.) Even if creatures share any titles Can any creature have the number First (before existence) and Last (after all existence is dissolved) at the same time? Please tell us which.


Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2.) Now with all the above, can any creature be worshipped besides God as Jesus was worshipped by the angels and all the elders fall on their faces and worship Jesus, the judge of the dead and living, even calling Him Almighty.?


3.) Does any creature have the single sovereign throne belonging to both Father and Lamb in one Being from which the river of life flows?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and the Lamb.

If you need help with the answers, refer to my thesis and attack it





Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, DappaD, Peacefullove

DappaD:
John 5:22-23
For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him
This includes the authority Jesus was granted by God (Matthew 28:18)

It's like you need to visit a psychiatric hospital, one can clearly see how insane you've become

You JWs have nothing in your arsenal but simple delusions. Why do you keep bringing up scriptures of when Jesus was on earth and limited as a servant, when he chose to become less than the Father?
LMAO.
Why running away from the end of time where He is called Almighty, YAHWEH's title?
Quit with all your avoidance tactics and attack my questions altogether. LMAO.

I'm going to continue presenting these questions all together until any of you can attack them all together. I'm not here for rigmaroles. If you can't attack them all together, then Jesus is one Being with YAHWEH

1.) Even if creatures share any titles Can any creature have the number First (before existence) and Last (after all existence is dissolved) at the same time? Please tell us which.


Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2.) Now with all the above, can any creature be worshipped besides God as Jesus was worshipped by the angels and all the elders fall on their faces and worship Jesus, the judge of the dead and living, even calling Him Almighty.?


3.) Does any creature have the single sovereign throne belonging to both Father and Lamb in one Being from which the river of life flows?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and the Lamb.

If you need help with the answers, refer to my thesis and attack it

DappaD:
Noo
Resolve the issue first with your fellow trinitarian before we can even think of listening to the garbage you're uttering.

bwahahaha! scaredy cats looking for diversion. Face me and stop trying to group people together.

Maximus69:
I wonder o!

Which one do they expect us to take now?

Is it that Jesus is the same person as Jehovah~ DrLiveLogic

Or

Jesus and Jehovah are not the same person~ Solite3

Rozz what did your own Pastor say on the matter jare!

It's so easy to know when people have no knowledge. Why not face me one on one and attack the simple three questions above or are they too hard for you. LMAO
Answer my question on water and the three states then I will show you how one Being can exists in three different states as if each state is a distinct individual. But first, answer my three questions. LMAO

Rozz:
lol don't want another diversion hmm

Rozz I have not seen your answer to my question on water and it's three states. Forget all these diversions these people are trying to come up with. Your answer will make you understand the Godhead.

Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, DappaD, Peacefullove

solite3:
you can see this thread below,
https://www.nairaland.com/5954015/what-doctrine-trinity

Aiit. Thnx.

DappaD:
Thank you, only Jehovah bears the suffix “El Shaddai” meaning “Almighty God” (Genesis 17:1, 28:3)
At Isaiah 9:6 the word translated “Mighty God” is “El Gibbor” and referred to Jesus Christ.

Thank you very much DappaD. You have put the nail to the coffin. Indeed only YAHWEH is Almighty.
And we can see here that the Almighty is one with the judge of the dead and the living, Jesus Christ, who the elders worship.

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Thank you DappaD for your help. Please preach to your brothers too. LMAO.


Maximus69, stop trying to create confusion between me and solite3. I cannot lose my focus, go back and attack my questions or excuse from the thread.
If water, a single substance, can exist in three states viz. Ice, liquid water and steam, is it too hard for the Creator of water to be one Being(substance) manifesting His three states at the same time and is it too hard for Him to also manifest these three states one at a time?

Rozz, you also should answer this question about water. I want to know if you are understanding.


Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, DappaD, Peacefullove

DappaD:
Jehovah God has a dwelling place in the spiritual heavens (1Kings 8:34,43)
This teaching of Jehovah being omnipresent is found no where in either the Hebrew or Greek Scriptures!

There he goes again! He keeps on quoting scriptures that are saying the exact opposite of his trash doctrine

Philippians 2:5-6
Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.

What is this God's form ? It simply means divine nature of a being
God is in the form of a Spirit (John 4:24) and no man has seen Him at anytime (Exodus 33:20, John 1:18, 6:46)
Jesus was of divine nature before he came to the earth. The Bible makes it clear on that! (Proverbs 8:22-31, Micah 5:2, John 3:13)
What Jesus meant in John 3:13 was that no righteous man had gone up to heaven before he came! Even King David his forefather was still in the Grave! Acts 2:29-35 . Faithful men and women of old are all in God's memory to be resurrected later on. But they're in the Grave and no where else.

For the latter part of Philippians 4:6:

“gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.”

What is meant here, is that although he was of divine nature, like the rest of the angels in heaven, he never gave consideration to the thought that he should in anyway be equal to God. Since Jesus himself acknowledges that God is higher than him (John 14:28)
Jesus when telling his disciples about the signs of his presence said that no one else apart from God knows when the time of the end would come, even Jesus himself does not know, yes he said it with his mouth(Matthew 24:36)

Like I said, you're just a hopeless “Bible scholar” who has no scriptural background. Continue quoting scriptures that don't align with your line of thought and keep showing how ignorant you are.

Exactly as I thought. I know you will all avoid my straightforward questions and begin to cherry-pick scriptures. Please give a unanimous answer to all and not just some, of the following questions otherwise your exclusive answers are your wrong interpretations. All must go together otherwise your answer is wrong.
I'm going to continue presenting these questions all together until any of you can attack them all together. I'm not here for rigmaroles. If you can't attack them all together, then Jesus is one Being with YAHWEH

1.) Even if creatures share any titles with God, can any creature have the number First (before existence) and Last (after all existence is dissolved) at the same time? Please tell us which.


Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2.) Now with all the above, can any creature be worshipped besides God as Jesus was worshipped by the angels and all the elders fall on their faces and worship Jesus, the judge of the dead and living, even calling Him Almighty.?


3.) Does any creature have the single sovereign throne belonging to both Father and Lamb in one Being from which the river of life flows?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and the Lamb.

If you need help with the answers, refer to my thesis and attack it


Take note people of what this man DappaD has said stripping God of His ability to dwell in different realms at the same time? He says God cannot dwell in two realms at a time.
Even though Jesus said he was on earth(Son) and in heaven(as Father) at the same time because he and the Father are one.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

and even though the Bible says
Psa 139:7-8 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Has he ever read the Bible? or is it only what his elders tell him that he believes?
Tell us again DappaD, is God Omnipresent?



All you JWs quoting scriptures about God being greater than the Jesus. Is it not because Jesus left his Godhead to become a servant/man, that the Father was greater in ability?
Was he not always First and Last with the Father before and after creation?

Rozz:
Both have Bible quotes supporting their claims

No Rozz, they are quoting scriptures about after Jesus left his Godhead to become a servant. But read carefully and you will see that before that He was First and Last before and after creation.




Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, DappaD, Peacefullove

TATIME:
He's just a kid!

"If i talk don't talk so that everyone can give me excellent as the best speaker"

What a childish was to approach issues?

He believes he's right and he doesn't want anyone to talk unless you follow his rules.

Please if he's not ready for a debate be should stop mentioning my name, that's not how to discuss like intellectuals. You will present your own opinion and reason with others, or you keep your opinion to yourself. Is that not how they formed thousands of different religions all in the name of the same Trinity?

Maximus69 and TATIME. LMAO.
You both are looking for a way to run from the thread.
I have said from the start that I am just a kid indeed but I have challenged you old papas to answer my childish questions directly without distractions otherwise don't quote me again. If you can answer all these questions, feel free, otherwise don't waste people's time

Is any creature other than God to be worshipped?Is any creature equal with God?Can a creature be in heaven and earth at the same time if not One with the Father?Does any creature share the same sovereign throne of Father and Lamb from which the river of life is flowing?







Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, DappaD

Maximus69:
Guy, you are adding your own interpretation now!

The Bible says Jesus was with God before the creation of the world {Proverbs 8:22-30} that's enough to explain the glory this creature has with God before coming down here but that never meant he is equal with God nah!

Jesus never said he is in both heaven and the earth at the same time nah!

That's your own assumption Sir!

Answer all my questions or don't quote me again?
Is any creature other than God to be worshipped?
Is any creature equal with God?
Can a creature be in heaven and earth at the same time if not One with the Father?
Does any creature share the same sovereign throne of Father and Lamb from which the river of life is flowing?

Peacefullove:
.



@Highlighted , YOU LIED !!! ... Nowhere is Jesus called Almighty. I think you finally roped yourself.

Hahahaha! Another learner shows up. He says nowhere was Jesus called Almighty. Did I not tell you all to answer my simple questions so you can learn.



****I'm going to continue presenting these questions all together until any of you can attack them all together. I'm not here for rigmaroles. If you can't attack them all together, then Jesus is one Being with YAHWEH

1.) Even if creatures share any titles with God. Can any creature have the number First (before existence) and Last (after all existence is dissolved) at the same time? Please tell us which.




Again, watch!
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2.) Jesus will judge the living and the dead and the same one is seated on the throne of God and the Lamb, as one Being with God receiving the worship of the elders.
Now with all the above, can any creature be worshipped besides God as Jesus was worshipped by the angels and all the elders fall on their faces and worship Jesus, the judge of the dead and living, even calling Him Almighty.?


3.) Does any creature have the single sovereign throne belonging to both Father and Lamb in one Being from which the river of life flows?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and the Lamb.

****If you need help with the answers, refer to my thesis and attack it






Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, DappaD

johnw47:
DrLiveLogic, yes the Word - Jesus Christ is YHWH


YHWH
Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Jesus
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:



YHWH
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Jesus
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



YHWH
Deu 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Jesus
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Incidentally, see at Deut 17:14 God is referred to as a mighty God, and we know that God is also referred to as Almighty God, they are not two gods, a mighty god and an almighty God as polytheist false jw's say.



YHWH
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Jesus
Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.



YHWH
Psa 130:7 Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
Psa 130:8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

Jesus
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.



YHWH
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Jesus
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.



YHWH
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Jesus
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Yes. it is very clear in scripture. Only blind Pharisees cannot see that YAHWEH is One Being with the Son.

johnw47:
i want you not to be afraid to answer DrLiveLogic questions
which so far you are avoiding like false jw's do when they are cornered and scared

Hahahaha. Don't worry, I've not forgotten. Let me finish with these impostors first, then I'll come to her.

Janosky:
Bros, Have you forgotten your LIE that the Father of Yahweh, sent his son Yahweh to the earth in Hebrews 1:1-2 ?
Bros you have the option to either quantirinu to DECEIVE YOURSELF or set yourself free from the Trinity GIBBERISH

LMAO. God spoke through his son by becoming a man(son of man) and relating with his creation as fellow flesh and blood.

Now don't waste my time. Go and face my posts and if you can deny those scriptures that Jesus is YAHWEH, do so now or run faraway from this thread and forever hold your peace when Jesus is being worshipped.

Rozz:
dont be too sure of yourself

I know very little but part of the little I know is that Jesus Christ is YAHWEH and these old papas don't know that simple thing. So watch how this little child will teach them all.

Rozz:
Haa na wa ooo

They invited all their members worldwide to handle a little child like me who is still learning. But watch how 20 old papas who are misguided will be guided by a small pikin who has ears to hear.

DappaD and Janosky, you two fearful women, scampering away from the thesis before you tryna distract me and involve me in your girlie chit-chat and exchange of insults. I don't have time to reply distractions.
You and all your "united" brothers should unite together and brainstorm how you will deny the scriptures before you and how you will answer my simple derived questions as well while I bring forth the fifth Divine prerogative. The expo to the questions is in carefully reading the thesis by the numbers to each question.

1.) Is YAHWEH not the First and last? Is Jesus not also First and Last? Is there any creature bearing First and Last? If no, then it is only YAHWEH and Jesus because they are one Being

2.)Is YAHWEH not recognised by the Jews as the Judge of the living and the dead? Is Jesus not also the judge of the living and the dead? Is any other being the judge of the living and the dead? If no. Then YAHWEH and Jesus are One Being.

3.) Is YAHWEH seated on the sovereign throne in heaven? Is the that throne not also called the throne of the Lamb? If so, then Jesus and YAHWEH are one Being.

4.) Is YAHWEH not the only God to be worshipped by His command? Is Jesus not also to be worshipped by his same command? Is any created thing in heaven or earth to be worshipped besides YAHWEH? If no, then YAHWEH and Jesus are one Being.

5.) Is YAHWEH's Godhead name not the same as Jesus' Godhead name? Does any other being bear this Godhead name? If no, then YAHWEH and Jesus are one Being.

Case Closed.

Don't mention me without direct answers to these questions. And silence or avoidance is agreement that Jesus is YAHWEH.



it will be all over soon. These guys want to make me form alliance so they can distract me from annihilating them. Childrens tricks sucks. LMAO. I'm coming soon.



Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao

#4 WORSHIP OF GOD
Have in mind that to the Hebrews, worship and service of any heavenly being are one and the same thing. Also, some Christian sects today claim that there are many gods apart from YAHWEH. Even if we claim God's angels or men are also gods, at least we can agree that YAHWEH commanded that He is the only God among all the "gods" that can be worshipped and served.

Exo 20:2-5 KJV I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The Lord Jesus himself said to Satan:
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve

Clearly worship/service of God belongs only to YAHWEH.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

But above, we see that YAHWEH who commanded that He alone be worshipped and no created thing also commanded that all the angels worship Jesus Christ because the Father and Son are one Being. So God is not contradicting Himself. Now watch again.

Isa 45:21-23 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I YAHWEH? and there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

YAHWEH who also calls himself Saviour, the same title with Jesus, declared that unto him alone all must bow the knee and confess to for no there is other God besides Him. The Romans perverted this very concept and made people worship their emperor's by bowing the knee and confessing to the Emperor/King. This worship which includes the knee bowing and tongue confessing is only for YAHWEH, the emperor of the Universe.
But who is this YAHWEH to whom all knees must bow and all tongues confess?

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It can be no clearer that YAHWEH and the Son, Jesus are one Being as by comparing the two above texts. And to bow and confess to Jesus as Lord/Supreme is to glorify/worship the Father at the same time because they are One Being.


We see also the in the following text that the Father and Son bearing the title "Who is , was and is to come" (shown in #1), who as one Being will judge both the living and the dead, (shown in #2), that are on one sovereign throne (shown in #3). It is this Father and Son who are worshipped by the elders as One Being in heaven and are both called "the Almighty" by same.

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

We also know Israel worshipped and served YAHWEH. So the question is who did the apostles worship and serve? Should they serve an angel or any created being. If so they are idol worshippers. So who did they serve?

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James boldly declares that he is a servant of God and Jesus Christ because they are One Being and he is not an idol worshipper therefore.

See also who Paul served
Phi 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
Paul served Jesus Christ (Also Romans 1:1, Tit 1:1)

Once again it is clear that YAHWEH who alone is to be worshipped and served is One Being with His Son who is also worshipped and served at the same time.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

N.B: If you cannot prove that the scriptures above are false, then you have accepted that Jesus is YAHWEH. Please don't quote me if you can't deny these scriptures. You are not worthy of an answer and please nobody should come with any distraction of trinity this, trinity that or peace and unity. What we are dealing with is simple, the Divinity of Jesus Christ, whether he is YAHWEH or not. Simple.



Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, omokoginimi, rottennaija, Muttleylaff, liposure, FlourishE30, NuclearReactor

** I forgot to add in #1
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The Lord Jesus himself testified that he was on earth(Son) and in heaven (Father) at the same time.

#3 THE THRONE OF GOD
It is evident that God owns the Sovereign throne in the whole universe and every other is under His. We also know that Jesus is enthroned at the right hand of the Father. This statement has made the carnal mind think that the Father sits on one throne and the son sits located beside Him at the right.
But does the scripture teach that right hand is literal or does the scripture teach that it is figurative, that in the end both Father and Son as One Being have one throne? Let us find out.

In the apocalypse, John is given the clearest revelation of the heavenly administration in all the scripture. In Revelation 4, he describes the throne of God surrounded by elders' thrones. Notice he doesn't describe any throne located at the literal right of God's throne because there is no such throne.

The question is where in heaven is the throne of the Son, the Lamb of God?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

The answer is clear here that it is only one throne, not two different thrones, belonging to God and also to the Lamb. Both are one Being and have just one throne in heaven and his servants serve him. Now watch again.

Rev 20:11-13 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Furthermore, notice that it is this same Being, God who sits on the throne that will judge both the living and the dead. Some say this is the Father because the heaven and earth fled from his face. True, but it is Father and Son in one Being more precisely.
Remember we have shown in #2 that it is both YAHWEH of OT and Jesus Christ in One Being who will judge the dead and living.(2Ti 4:1, Ecc 3:17)
Again watch!

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

Finally, here, we see even more clearly here that it is the same God who sat on the single sovereign throne who all the elders worship. Surely this is the Father, YAHWEH whose throne was described in the midst of the elders' in Revelation 4.
But behold it is also he who will judge the dead(unrighteous) and the living, (the prophets whom he will reward with his saints). Of course we know who it is that judges the dead and living by now. Surely it is the Lord Jesus(2Ti 4:1). Again, we see here that Father and Son as one Being bearing the title, "Who is and was and is to come"(as shown in the first part) who in one Being sit on the single sovereign throne and will reign.



Clearly, right hand of the Father is not geographical since there is no throne at his right in John's heavenly vista but it is figurative of his Omnipotence. I can treat this separately from scriptures after we have all agreed that YAHWEH is Jesus.
Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God


N.B: If you cannot prove that the scriptures above are false, then you have accepted that Jesus is YAHWEH. Please don't quote me if you can't deny these scriptures. You are not worthy of an answer and please nobody should come with any distraction of trinity this, trinity that or peace and unity. What we are dealing with is simple, the Divinity of Jesus Christ, whether he is YAHWEH or not. Simple.


Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, omokoginimi, rottennaija, Muttleylaff, liposure, FlourishE30, NuclearReactor

#2 JUDGMENT OF GOD

We know that YAHWEH, the God of OT revealed Himself to Israel as the only One who will judge both living and dead.
Now notice below in the verse below, it is God who gave the commandments to Moses, who is to be feared, YAHWEH, who will also judge every work.
Ecc 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil

Also observe another verse in the same letter that shows the same YAHWEH is the One who will judge righteous and sinners alike.
Ecc 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

Now who is this YAHWEH that will judge all men?
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick(righteous) and the dead(wicked) at his appearing and his kingdom;

Clearly answered. Notice Paul says Jesus will judge the living and the dead. Comparing with OT texts, clearly Jesus is the YAHWEH who will judge all men. Now it is also easy to see that Paul called God(YAHWEH) and Lord Jesus Christ as the same Being not two.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

N.B: If you cannot prove that the scriptures above are false, then you have accepted that Jesus is YAHWEH. Please don't quote me if you can't deny these scriptures. You are not worthy of an answer and please nobody should come with any distraction of trinity this, trinity that or peace and unity and let all beware of JWs diversionary tactics to avoid the theses. What we are dealing with is simple, the Divinity of Jesus Christ, whether he is YAHWEH or not. Simple.


Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, omokoginimi, rottennaija, Muttleylaff, liposure, FlourishE30, NuclearReactor

**Modified
I forgot to add in #1
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The Lord Jesus himself testified that he was on earth(Son) and in heaven (Father) at the same time.


Is YAHWEH, God of Israel the same Jesus Christ in NT who came to die for sin?

It's always proper to start from what is known before proceeding to what is unknown. Some erroneously start from the unknown and create confusion for themselves.
That's why I've chosen to begin from what is clear and known in the Bible: That YHWH and Jesus are one Being.
When that is resolved, an unknown will come up later which is: How is it possible that one Being expressed Himself as if He were two different people, Father and only-begotten Son?
This can be handled after stage one.

To treat the known, we would have to look at the Being called God from different angles of His Godhead prerogatives clearly shown in scripture.

#1 NUMBER OF GOD
It is obvious that in order, God is the only Being who can be "First and Last/Beginning and Ending/Alpha and Omega" at the same time because he existed before every created thing and is the only One who will remain when he decides to end all existence.
The Simultaneous "First and Last" is a number only the Uncreated can have.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith YAHWEH, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

We see here that YAHWEH, the God of Israel is "First and Last" and is the only true God. Follow me now.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come, the Almighty

We see that God calls himself by this number, "First and Last" and also the "Who is, was and is to come". He further calls himself, the Almighty/Omnipotent (El-Shaddai), an OT title of YAHWEH. Angels are mighty, even Michael is very mighty but only YAHWEH is Almighty/Omnipotent. Now watch!

Rev 11:17-18 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, Who is and was and is to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned

We see here that it is the same YAHWEH Almighty who sits on the throne worshipped by the same title "Who is, was and is to come". So, comparing the OT text and also the two verses in the Apocalypse, It is clear that YAHWEH Almighty's number is "First and Last"

Now let us find out who is this YAHWEH Almighty, The First and Last, Who is, was and is to come?
In the beginning of the apocalypse, John meets with Jesus Christ, who introduces himself as

Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...
Rev 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

We see that this is Jesus Christ who was dead and resurrected. By his number here, "First and Last/Alpha and Omega/Beginning and Ending", we see that this same YAHWEH Almighty of OT and Jesus Christ of NT are one Being.


Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

N.B: If you cannot prove that the scriptures above are false, then you have accepted that Jesus is YAHWEH. Please don't quote me if you can't deny these scriptures. You are not worthy of an answer and please nobody should come with any distraction of trinity this trinity that or peace and unity. What we are dealing with is simple, the Divinity of Jesus Christ, whether he is YAHWEH or not. Simple.

Cc: johnw47, achorladey, Rozz, Maximus69, TATIME, Janosky, Peacefullove, haywizzy007, Acehart, solite3, KNOWMORE56, hoopernikao, omokoginimi, rottennaija, Muttleylaff, liposure, FlourishE30, NuclearReactor

TATIME:
God is not for confusion but for PEACE!

Remember Jesus is the Prince of Peace so if there is no PEACE amongst the worshipers of Trinity, Jesus surely is not the one championing such doctrines!

Rozz come and see how your glorified unlearned JWs have shifted from the subject matters to unity and peace. LMAO.

I think they trained them to divert to that when they have no hope of winning. LMAO.

achorladey:
Nice breakdown of the whole discussion. I love the time you took to understand their mindset and break it down. Next is for them to DIVERT.

Easy to say they have LOVE JOY PEACE UNITY in their midst. Someone even said even in some of their congregation the parents fight in not allowing their daughters/sons to marry their fellow witness whom they like.

One will tell you its a FACELESS forum that what they say here doesn't matter. Perhaps the LOVE,PEACE and UNITY they try portray na surface thing

I've noticed their diversionary tactics. LMAO. audio unity. Only when they have no hope of winning an argument, they lie about unity.
When they think they can win, they start bombarding with scriptures like pros.

achorladey:
Elihu in the midst of old men.

LMAO.

Maximus69:
My friend, you're a confirmed Olódo!

Don't forget you started tagging JWs as moles so stay on track!

Paul learnt God's word from people but the only thing he needed is the practical application of what he learnt.
Pharisees taught him from the scriptures that those who failed to live up to the law and/he revering anyone as Christ must be persecuted, Jesus taught his own followers to let God judge because event are happening that need to be observed with caution.

That's the only difference in the teachings!

So open your eyes and see!

Ignorance upon ignorance plus distracting insults for cover-up.
Go and learn the meaning of "mole". It's not an insult o. Even the person I said I'm suspecting knew it wasn't an insult and has been responding amiably.

Now that your arguments on Paul's learning has fallen like a pack of cards, I'm coming soon to educate you and all your JW fellows on the Godhead of Jesus Christ.

TATIME:
I'm now a teacher by God's grace so i don't just argue pointlessly, so leave the issue of falsewood for now because i'm certaint that you're on the wrong side.
So let's focus on the points!

If you truly agree with what you typed up there, please how do you expect God's people to be united in FAITH as Jesus fervently prayed {John 17:21-23} when some don't have to learn from the same source?

Today there are over 41,000 different religions claiming Christians and each have it's own definition of your Trinity God, moreover contradictions is everywhere on the issue of this your Trinity, Rozz can testify to this fact as each trinitarian keep coming up with different explanations.
Mind you each of them says Jesus spoke to them, yet they're not one in line of thought! 1Corinthians 1:10

Paul said he is not a God of confusion but of PEACE {1Corinthians 14:33} if you should go through different threads on Nairaland you'll notice the bitter arguments, abuses, insults even curses amongst Trinitarians all in the name of the same God TRINITY. You just responded to Maximus69 saying you don't care about how other Trinitarians define their own TRINITY God, yet you're saying JWs who are unitedly teaching the same thing and having PEACE amongst themselves are wrong!

Is that what Jesus came to established?

In answer to your question. Let me show you practically how God can teach people Himself without confusion.

Paul learnt of the testaments from the Lord Himself and not from a man. Notice the bolded.

1Co 11:23-26 KJV For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

He was not there with the twelve apostles when they received it but notice that it was exactly the same thing he received from the Lord in his own revelation that the 12 received from the Lord while he was on earth, word for word, mussel for mussel.
No confusion, no variation. Indeed God is not an author of confusion. It is JWs that do that perfectly. LMAO.

At least now, everyone can see that whether God chooses to teach through men or through revelation of Jesus without human agency, He passes the same message.
Rozz please bring out better learned JWs. This guys are wasting the thread pages and my time.

TATIME:
You are a confirmed liar!

How can you say there is unity where people are carrying weapons up and down to kill their fellowman due to racism and politics yet they're claiming worshipers of the same God in Unity?

For instance only JWs are unitedly saying "no more wars, no more training for wars and no more building of weapons" Isaiah 2:2-4

None of you have come up with something tangible to say about real PEACE, whenever politicians or ethnic classes occur, you people abandon your hopeless religions to kill one another. Whereas JWs stand as one never to lift up weapons again everywhere they are.

If you don't know the meaning of unity my friend stop deluding yourself, there is no Unity if you can't solve the problems (Satan is causing amongst the pagans) in the name of Jesus (the Prince of Peace)

That's a complete show of shame on your Trinity God!

Oga don't try to distract me with your unity message. If you have knowledge on our subject matter, stay on course like a man.
Remember your fans Maximus69 and Rozz are cheering you o. LMAO.

Maximus69:
My friend, you be confirmed Olódo!

The Pharisees, Saddusees, Scribes, Priests and others Rabbis all claim to believe in the scriptures but they were opposing each other just as all of you Trinitarians are doing on the issue of this your TRINITY God today!

When Jesus came his own teachings gave them headache because he was talking with authority {Matthew 7:28-29} that only him has the truth just as JWs are unitedly saying today! John 14:6

So when Paul realized that he was working with set of confused religionists, he left for Christianity. They came together against Paul because it's a shame on them just as all of you are coming up against Rozz today for declaring JWs right over your Confused TRINITY God! The only issue here is that Rozz has not learnt how to make you guys start fighting yourselves by quoting scriptures that will bring confusion amongst Trinitarians! Act 23:6-10

If the Pharisees aren't teaching the people what the law says, how do you think Jesus' counsel to the people will sound?
Jesus actually said "all what they teach you do observe but don't do according to their deeds because they put heavy loads on people when they themselves aren't ready to lift it with their finger" Matthew 23:1-4

So are you saying Jesus didn't know what he was saying by telling the people to do all what the Pharisees commanded them according to the law?

Abegi my guy this one pass your level!

Oga you don't win an argument by insults of olodo and all that. It's women who fight with insults. I'm not so immature that you will distract me with your feminine tendencies.
Have you seen where soldiers win a war by insulting each other. Oga, only weapons of knowledge can help you now. So if you have none, clear from the battlefield before you end up a casualty who died shouting olodo...

Now once again. Take a chair with Rozz and let me show you that you are the most confused man walking this thread.

You said all men must learn from JW the gospel to know it.
I asked you where Paul learnt. You said from disciples of Jesus.
I showed you the Bible that he learnt from no man and no disciple but from Jesus directly.
You now shifted goalposts with your teacher-friend and said he had already learnt OT from Pharisees so even he, had been trained by men.
Now that I showed you how JW are another confused sect like the Pharisees who with their teaching persecute the Lord. You now went back and said the Pharisees were confused and Paul had to let go of their teaching to follow the gospel. Is it not why I said he learnt gospel from no man? Don't allow your friend TATIME see the mess you're making in your "unity", LMAO.
Have you not confirmed what I said that Paul threw away their teaching and learnt from Jesus the correct teaching?

Choose one now, Omg. If Paul threw away his Pharisee learning and also did not learn the gospel from the disciples but Jesus himself. Does that not mean Jesus appears to men to teach them without human agency?

You are right that Pharisees were confused however you are even more confused than your fellow killers of God.
Poor confused and wandering soul, may you one day find guidance.
Don't quote me again in this point since you like going in circles. I don't have time for pointless rigmaroles.
Let's now move to another thing you're confused about.

Maximus69:
Deadi bodi geti accident yeepa!
Confusion breaki boonu yeepa!
Na double wahala for deadi bodi and the owner of deadi bodi, double wahala for deadi bodi!

Please keep up with cheerleading, my friend. I think you do it better than Rozz and the female folk. LMAO.
Maybe if you continue, your friends will not lose hope that their lies will confuse me. LMAO.
It's better you keep to just that and stay out of this scriptural exchange before you get hurt. LMAO

TATIME:
I'm now a teacher by God's grace so i don't just argue pointlessly, so leave the issue of falsewood for now because i'm certaint that you're on the wrong side.
So let's focus on the points!

If you truly agree with what you typed up there, please how do you expect God's people to be united in FAITH as Jesus fervently prayed {John 17:21-23} when some don't have to learn from the same source?

Today there are over 41,000 different religions claiming Christians and each have it's own definition of your Trinity God, moreover contradictions is everywhere on the issue of this your Trinity, Rozz can testify to this fact as each trinitarian keep coming up with different explanations.
Mind you each of them says Jesus spoke to them, yet they're not one in line of thought! 1Corinthians 1:10

Paul said he is not a God of confusion but of PEACE {1Corinthians 14:33} if you should go through different threads on Nairaland you'll notice the bitter arguments, abuses, insults even curses amongst Trinitarians all in the name of the same God TRINITY. You just responded to Maximus69 saying you don't care about how other Trinitarians define their own TRINITY God, yet you're saying JWs who are unitedly teaching the same thing and having PEACE amongst themselves are wrong!

Is that what Jesus came to established?

Can you see why I said your folk are ignorant and you're a teacher? Of course, no better than the masters of the law who couldn't handle Jesus' truth and all they could do was to kill him.
If, as you claim, there are 41 lies on trinity, I can assure you that yours is the 42nd and is even more pitiful than all the others because it doesn't acknowledge simple bible but forget all those and face me one on one without distraction because like I said, I stand alone and need no support for simple truth.
And who on earth cares about whether you all unite in ignorance? All your so called 41000 trinitarian sects, is each not united with their members, some having even more than your numbers?
Or are the Sunni terrorists all over the world not also united? Please spare me your appeal. Unity means nothing without truth?
My dear teacher-friend, let me answer your simple question.
You ask if God is not the author of confusion, how will he not send men to teach others so as not to avoid confusion.
Rozz, come again and witness crass ignorance of this your glorified unlearned JWs.
Now, my ignorant albeit innocent and naive teacher of falsehood, answer this question and don't back in cowardice, if you are really a Man afterall I'm only a little child learning.
If God appears to all men and teaches them directly and God is not confused, won't all men end up with the same knowledge?
Or if you as a man teach twenty different people very well, won't they have the same understanding?
How much more God Himself, teaching?
Rozz, if your friends cannot answer, come and help them now because I don't yet know where you stand.

Rozz:
lol you seems ready for this,ok ooo

I am only a learner o. But you will soon see that one little child who is still learning is better than twenty old papas who know nothing (Ecclesiastes 4:13). LMAO.

Maximus69:
Perhaps i need to spotlight the point in what you and i discussed so far!

Paul learnt God's word from people before he encountered Jesus who revealed his identity as the promised Messiah! Act 22:3
This is the point that you've been missing all these while, though i concluded you're only trying to argue blindly but it's like you actually thought you have some points.

So let's consider what the scriptures have to say on the matter.

Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) that God has promised through the words spoken by all the prophets from the time of Abraham till John the baptist, so all Israelites have been anticipating the coming of this promised Christ. Deuteronomy 18:15-18, Act 3:22-23
Note what Jesus told the Samaritan lady he met at Jacob's well, Jesus proved to be a prophet by revealing some things to the lady which triggered her interest in knowing more about what she's been taught from childhood, her own people (Samaritans) believe that people can also worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob on mount Gerizin in Samaria but the Jews are insisting that it's only in Jerusalem that pure worship is done, so she wants to know what this man she can see as a prophet will say to that.
Jesus reechoed the same thing that Jews always say so the lady concluded that Jesus' judgment is partial since he's also a Jew but she said something that made Jesus revealed his true identity to her.
She said "i'm sure all these confusion will end when the Messiah (Christ) comes" at that Jesus immediately told her "i am that long awaited Messiah" John 4:7-29
So you can see that all those who worship the God of Israel knew about prophecies regarding the Christ but what they didn't know is who exactly is the prophecies pointing to? Act 8:32-36
Paul as a Jewish Scholar also had all the elementary teachings regarding the Christ {Hebrews 5:12 compare to Act 22:3} so for Jesus to have appeared to him face to face is like what Jesus did to the lady at Jacob's well, Jesus revealed his identity to Paul! Act 9:1-5

In summary of all you said, you have once again displayed ignorance. When Jesus came, was it not the teachers of the law that killed him? Is it not the same teachers who taught Paul to kill Christians?
If Paul held to what he was taught, why did he become a christian and why did his former clique want to kill him.
Answer this simple question.
What Paul learnt from the Pharisees, did he not throw it away to learn all over again from Jesus? (Philippians 3:5-11)
Also did Paul not clearly say that he learnt the gospel he taught the gentiles from no man but Jesus himself?
If you can't answer these two in clear terms, please don't waste my time. You guys should not carry me round in your circles o.
Abeg, Rozz, if you have other JW that have proper knowledge of scriptures, call them o. These ones so far are learners.

TATIME:
There is just one thing that needed to be done on this issue of Apostle Paul, if you agree that he meant the OT from his Jewish teacher that means he had the basic knowledge about the Christ and what the Christ is coming to do but Paul never knew that all what the scriptures said about the Messiah (Christ) is to be applied in the case of Jesus.
After Jesus has appeared to Paul this man now need to know the difference between the teachings of his Pharisaic fathers and that of the Christians. So having gotten the elementary learning already he now grasp all what his former teachers thought him as if he's now in the light.
What Maximus69 is saying is that there is no argument that God's word is from mouth to mouth otherwise we must agree that each person just need a copy of the Bible and Jesus will do the rest by himself!
I was a Muslim and my religious teachers do have copies of the Bible, let me even correct the impression that most so called Christians don't know today the passages religious terrorists often quote before slaughtering their fellowman are excerpts from the Bible!
So if we're to conclude that Jesus will minister to them personally before they can know him then we are deceiving ourselves because without proper guidance on the right application of God's word many things will go wrong!

LMAO. So you were a moslem? Unfortunate that you left one enclave of falsehood only to enter another(JW) in search of truth. I'm sure you've dropped all the lies the terrorists claim from bible to kill people. If so, then you can easily understand how Paul threw away the lies the Pharisees also taught him but you're now claiming he retained it, LMAO.
I just hope you will after all your jumping around finally find, the only true God, Jesus Christ and not another denial sect about him and realise that He isn't only in heaven but also lives inside men - another thing only God can do and no angel can do.

As for our argument about how Paul learnt. I'm not going to follow you to keep going in circles. It is already evident to all who can reason without lying from our exchange that you deny the horse's mouth and Bible but believe only your elders.

Lastly, I'm not claiming Jesus doesn't send men to teach. I'm only showing you that He also himself, teaches men directly if He wants and this the Bible clearly teaches through Paul but lookatchu claiming that he continued with his former learning from pharisee sect and added from Jesus' disciples.
Tell us then, if there is any truth in you, why did the pharisees want to kill him if not that the gospel Jesus(and no man) taught him by revelation was opposed to the teaching they gave him.

johnw47:
DrLiveLogic, readers can know that you have some truths to say
when big mouth false jw's like janosky come out of the woodword to attack you

lying false jw janosky only gives book, chapter and verse numbers
he doesn't quote the verses because he knows that many don't line up with what he is saying

same as other false jw's do




good

Thanks Bob. Looks like they went and gathered at a round table to come @ me. LMAO. As if numbers can help them against pure fact.

I even prefer all of them come out so that it can be clear to Rozz how empty and ineffective lies are regardless of the numbers that hold them together