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Christianity Etc › Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by DrLiveLogic(m): 2:37pm On Aug 24, 2020*

#3 THE THRONE OF GOD
It is evident that God owns the sovereign throne in the whole universe and every other is subservient to His. We also know that Jesus is enthroned at the right hand of the Father. This statement has made the carnal mind think that the Father sits on one throne and the Son sits located beside Him at the right.
But does the bible teach that Jesus is literally seated at the right hand of the Father or does the bible teach it is figurative as both Father and Son as One Being have one throne?
Let's find out:

In the apocalypse, John is given the clearest revelation of the heavenly administration in all the scripture. In Revelation 4, he describes the throne of God surrounded by elders' thrones. Notice he doesn't describe any throne located at the literal right of God's throne because there is no such throne.

So just where in heaven is the throne of the Son, the Lamb of God?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

The answer is clear here that it is only one throne, not two different thrones, belonging to God and also to the Lamb. Both are one Being and have just one throne in heaven and his servants serve him.
Now watch again!

Rev 20:11-13 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Furthermore, notice that it is this same Being, God who sits on the throne that will judge both the living and the dead. Some say this is the Father because the heaven and earth fled from his face. True, but it is Father and Son in one Being more precisely.
Remember we have shown in #2 that it is both YAHWEH of OT and Jesus Christ in one Being who will judge the dead and living.(2Ti 4:1, Ecc 3:17)
Again watch!

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

Finally, we see even more clearly here that its the same god who sits on the single sovereign throne who all the elders worship. Surely this is the Father, YAHWEH whose throne was described in the midst of the elders in Revelation 4.
But its also he who will judge the dead(unrighteous) and the living,(the prophets whom he will reward with his saints). Of course we know who it is that judges the dead and living by now. Surely it is the Lord Jesus(2Ti 4:1). Again, we see here Father and Word, as one Being, bearing the title "Who is and was and is to come"(as shown in the #1) in one Being sits on the single sovereign throne and will reign.

Clearly, the right hand of the Father is not literal since there is no throne at his geographical right in John's heavenly vista or any portion of the bible but it is figurative of his Omnipotence. I can treat this separately from the bible after we have all agreed that Jesus is on e Being in YAHWEH.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God

Christianity Etc › Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by DrLiveLogic(m): 2:36pm On Aug 24, 2020*

#2 JUDGMENT OF GOD

The OT makes clear that YHWH is coming to earth to judge the earth, which leaves no clearer picture that Jesus, who we know is coming to judge the earth, is one Being with YHWH.
Psa 96:13 Before YAHWEH who comes, for he comes to judge the earth: he will judge the world in justice, and the people with his truth.

We also know that YAHWEH, the God of OT revealed Himself to Israel as the one who will judge both living and dead.
Now notice in the verse below, it is God who gave the commandments to Moses, YHWH, who is to be feared, who will also judge every work.
Ecc 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil

Also observe another verse in the same letter that shows the same YAHWEH is the one who will judge righteous and sinners alike.
Ecc 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

But who are we told will judge all men, living and dead in NT?
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick(righteous) and the dead(wicked) at his appearing and his kingdom;

Clearly answered. Paul says Jesus will judge the living and the dead. Comparing with OT texts, clearly Jesus and YAHWEH as one Being will judge all men. Now, reading again, its clear to see that Paul called God(YAHWEH) and Jesus as the same Being.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

N.B: The gospel is simple. God became a man. And acted as both God and man at the same time. To teach men how to worship God right and to make it possible for and show men how to become sons of God. So quoting scriptures that reveal God's humanity which happened only about 2000 years ago takes nothing away from the Word's original existence as one Being with the Father.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Do You Subscribe To The Doctrine Of Trinity? If "Yes", Take This Challenge! by DrLiveLogic(m): 2:36pm On Aug 24, 2020*

Blabbermouth, why have you left my 9 questions unattended to. They're well outlined already in my past before last on your thread. I have expounded on the confusing ones in the last. So please do justice to all 9 of them.
As for the Triuneness of God. I already offered you a link where I handled them. Go through #1 to #6. You are yet to refute any of them and calling me here again.
Again read up my Son of God Movie thread to understand the history of the Word.
When I'm done with my Triuneness thread. I will show more scriptures and a fuller explanation.

#1 NUMBER OF GOD
It is obvious that in order, God is the only Being who can be "First and Last/Beginning and Ending/Alpha and Omega" at the same time because he existed before every created thing and is the only One who will remain when he decides to end all existence.
The Simultaneous "First and Last" is a number only the Uncreated can have.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith YAHWEH, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

We see here that YAHWEH, the God of Israel is "First and Last" and is the only true God. Follow me now.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come, the Almighty

He further calls himself here, the Almighty/Omnipotent (El-Shaddai), an OT title of YAHWEH. Angels are mighty, even Michael is very mighty but only YHWH is Almighty/Omnipotent. From the OT text and in this part of Apocalypse, It is clear that YHWH Almighty's number is "First and Last"

Now, observe:
In the beginning of the apocalypse, John meets with Jesus Christ, who introduces himself as
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...
Rev 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

We see that this is Jesus Christ who was dead and resurrected. By his number here, "First and Last/Alpha and Omega/Beginning and Ending", we see that YAHWEH Almighty of OT and Jesus Christ of NT are one Being.

Little wonder that even when the Word became flesh, he testified he was on earth as Son and in heaven in the Father at once, a bilocation impossible with any being but God himself.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by DrLiveLogic(m): 1:54pm On Aug 24, 2020*

MuttleyLaff, the questions you answered were for Blabbermouth actually to defend his position plus I had outlined them later.

Blabbermouth:
Take this mentality away! You will be limited by your ignorance if you continue like this

My ignorance? Continue like how?
Are you so lost in your bubble of 'know-all', you can't even take the time to understand this simple statement?
Again, knowledge is so vast doesn't mean it shouldn't be investigated or that we stay in ignorance. It only means we have to limit it to contexts when discussing else we speak ad infinitum without beginning or ending or a focus in sight. LMAO!
Cc: MuttleyLaff

Blabbermouth:
This question and the other ones you asked are a consequence of your stance on this matter and not mine. This is an attempt of using this medium to help you solve the bugging questions you have always had in your heart. Nevertheless, I will oblige you.

Again, bugging questions in my heart? Watch it man! You've come off repeatedly all over your thread as one who thinks he's come here to educate everyone else from some deeper and higher realm none ever approached. In the realm of knowledge, we all are learners. Whatever you think you know, there are thousands out there you may never meet who know much more. Humility is an accomplice of true knowledge.

Blabbermouth:
2/ From QST 1 and 2, are you saying that God is evil and dark? Godforbid! Or else, you've just crossed the line. Evil is not the opposite of Good, no! It is what you get when Goodness is absent. Darkness is not the opposite of light, it is what you get when light is absent. This is why you cannot make a room"darker"..God said A&E will die the very same day they eat of the fruit, didthey die (physically)? No! Is God lying? No! To die is to be separated from the source of life (I.e God)...it begs the question.

And you finally avoided my questions. Huh! Wonder why you and MuttleyLaff so stuck up on the no-brainer: "darkness is the absence of light" that any kindergartener can tell that you totally missed my question. LMAO!
Now if you'd gladly answer my question:
2/ What does God mean by knowing good and evil since in your thesis, God knows only light, life and good and nothing not found in his nature? Please don't be evasive this time or try explaining what needn't be. While at it, you may need try going back to my #1 question you evaded.

3/ after you choose, does God then know your end?

Blabbermouth:
Hahaha....

...haha! But you 'forgot' to answer the question too. LMAO!
Now please tell us unequivocally:
3/ after a sinner makes a wrong choice or set of choices, does God then know what reality they've created and does he then their end?

4/ If God then knows the current state of the sinner after choices are made and even their end which he didn't have originally in his foreknowledge, has he then updated his knowledge and become more than what he initially was or are you saying he is blind to what is happening in the sinner's lives?

Blabbermouth:
That's the problem when humans start seeing God as a person.

You being evasive again. It's wise to always know when to say "I think I missed a spot" or "need to think about it". You can or else try again to answer the question with simple yes or no.

Blabbermouth:
No! The foetus case is not unreasonable. You will have an issue with it if you think a future, aside from what God has declared exist. You can help him answer the question I asked him though. Also, I did not misrepresent his view. He was trying not to cross the line from outside the line, more like eating your cake and having it back

You sir seem the only one here getting it mixed up and trying so hard to force him outside your imaginary line. MuttleyLaff, shadeyinka and I get it clearly because it's straightforward as a speed-train. BTW, all foetuses are heaven-bound until the age of accountability to choose sin and alter that - Paul's meaning in Romans 7:9

Blabbermouth:
God in three persons" -is that what Trinity is?

3 persons? What you were told but the Triuneness of YHWH (Father, Word and Spirit) though is one Being.

Blabbermouth:
Sir, I want you to do something for me - With the old testament alone, show that Jesus was Divinity become humanity"...

Smh. Start here , go through #1- #6 and if you can refute all, then let's go for the jugular or else admit that YHWH (Word and Father) is one Being.

Blabbermouth:
I'm not permitted to say many things for now, but I do implore you to do that task I ask you. Trust me, your revelation of who Christ is will increase in many folds.

Nah! Can't trust you now. You seem to be up to something fishy about trying to refute the Divinity of Christ and we haven't even cleaned up some of the mess you've made with this subject yet. If you ask me, I'd say some things are safer "not permitted to be said". LMAO!

5/ how God predicts the future of both the good and the evil, like Jacob and Esau etc., before they even make their choices

Blabbermouth:
Bible verse please...

5/ Try Romans 9:11-16 for starters.

6/ whose names are not in the book of life and why then God created these people.

Blabbermouth:
It's the problem of those thinking God needs to press a forward button. However, check my response to Muttley, I answered this already.

Your answer to him is just you being all over the place except where needed. So,
6/ who are those not found in the book of life? and did God have a purpose for them when they came to earth?

7/ and how they could create a reality that didn't exist in God. Is the end then different from the beginning?

Blabbermouth:
I don't understand this question.

7a/ These sinners create realities outside of God, we see this all around as existent. But according to you these realities if outside God's, are non-existent. Explain this clearly.
7b/ If these realities they created exist as we see them all around, then is the end different from the beginning?

8/ What is meant in Isaiah 45:7, how God forms light and creates darkness and good and evil. Your thesis so far seems like you've bitten off quite a bit more than can chew. This subject is much deeper than you've presented. The reason I said many prerequisites must be settled before this.

Blabbermouth:
Again, are you saying that there is darkness in God?

Why bother about my opinion? You claim to be the one in the know, remember?
8/ You said God has no evil/darkness in him and only forthtells what is consistent with his nature. So justify it with Isaiah 45:7 is all I'm saying.

9/ As for his case with Isaiah 46:10, he ended up just replacing God's forthtelling with foreknowledge which are two distinct attributes of God and he does both. Forthtelling is how he brings his foreknowledge to play in this movie.

Blabbermouth:
No! That was what Shade and Muttley did, not me. I said Isaiah 46:10 was forthtelling the end... Nowhere did I call it foretelling! Why is everyone throwing their own flaws on me?

Why getting unnerved? Plus everyone's got flaws huh? To throw at you but no flaw of your own, huh? Smh. Well, I didn't say you called it foretelling.
I'm saying you've used God's forthtelling here to strike out his foreknowledge, saying he doesn't know but only decrees, when in reality these two attributes are distinct and coexistent. Isn't that what you did?

Christianity Etc › Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by DrLiveLogic(m): 3:35pm On Aug 23, 2020*

MuttleyLaff:
I have various times tried to extract these "Why" and/or "What" info from others, but to no avail.

The last poster I asked similar questions, threw them most back in my face, claiming, dont understand, not understood et cetera

Muttleylaff, the realm of knowledge is so vast, we have to limit it to boundaries and premises. When you ask what problem God tried to solve when he created man, you prolly have no idea how vast the answer can be and the many angles it could be approached from. My thread has a focus, if you're presenting any questions, they should be within the context. I told you I don't understand how your question relates, you'd have done well to explain or to go on to answer the question and hence show its point. Your position on the angels as sons of God is way off the bar btw and I'm shocked at what you tryna pull of with "Father of lights". But as I make out time, I'll try to come back to it.
Like I told Blabbermouth, he seems to have a struggle with foreknowledge and predestination. He has made some good points here which form a part of my perspective which I lightly scratched when I was handling the Beginning Ending aspect of the Word and Father with JWs, but not circumspect because there are many questions his position doesn't satisfy. Like
1/ how Light had to produce a light(lucifer) that produced darkness. Where then did the darkness or its possibility arise from, if its grandparent is Light without darkness.

2/ Also what does God then mean by claiming to know good and evil in Genesis 3:22.

Again, when you look at his position here,

Blabbermouth: Since I declare my END myself, can't God know where I will choose for myself before I choose?
Answer: Until you CHOOSE, where you will END is undefined. Before you chose, your end doesn't exist and like we've illustrated, God (whether by foreknowledge or absolute omniscience) have no account of Non-existent things. Maximus69 was right when he said "God does not know If I will repent or not". However, I want him to enlighten him a notch that God does not know because " my end does not exist until I choose "Remember, God has no account of nonexistent things. Yea, God has no account of where you will end up. Why? It does not exist!

it begs the question,
3/ after a sinner chooses, does God then know the sinner's present and also his end which according to you isn't part of God's foreknowledge?

4/ If he then knows, has he then updated his knowledge and become more than what he initially was? and yet many other questions.

Again I have to say he has(whether deliberately or not) totally misrepresented shadeyinka's view forcing it unnecessarily to juxtapose freewill, foreknowledge and predestination. He also unmeritoriously makes an unreasonable case with a foetus choosing hell which is totally out of line with shade's view, like how can you not still get it.
Shadeyinka's position which obviously does not juxtapose these is one I held on to for years and I can tell you it is balanced and seemingly impeccable. As a matter of fact, it is still a good one to teach people towards perfection. However, I had to drop it after some time, not really because there were logical loopholes in it I could see but just because I saw something else I never saw before.
There are certain concepts which, if not properly defined, will continue to be confusing and irregular. When you talk about foreknowledge, you have to first define what knowledge is in God's terms and how exactly God knows things. Again you have to correctly explain God's original state of existence. This is key to all other knowledge about God. This also sets the stage for the origin of good and evil. This is why I'm yet to do the thread on this subject. There are many prerequisites to settle before this including Triuneness of God that seems to be also misunderstood, even by Blabbermouth himself. As a matter of fact, my last thread on the son of God movie will give a good idea of where I'm headed. I'm hoping I'll do this subject in good time though.
Till then, let Blabbermouth try justifying the points raised and as well explain:

5/ how God predicts the future of both the good and the evil, like Jacob and Esau etc., before they even make their choices and

6/ whose names are not in the book of life and why do these people exist since they are not part of God's foreknowledge.

7/ and how they could create a reality that didn't exist in God. Is the end then different from the beginning?

8/ What is meant in Isaiah 45:7, how God forms light and creates darkness and good and evil.
Your thesis so far seems like you've bitten off quite a bit more than can chew. This subject is much deeper than you've presented. The reason I said many prerequisites must be settled before this.

9/ As for his case with Isaiah 46:10, he ended up just replacing God's forthtelling with foreknowledge which are two distinct attributes of God and he does both. Forthtelling is how he brings his foreknowledge to play in this movie.

Christianity Etc › Re: G.O.A.T. Movie: Son Of God - How The Logos Devolved For Humanity. by DrLiveLogic(op): 12:31am On Aug 22, 2020*

MuttleyLaff:
For DrLiveLogic and any interested interlocutor(s):

1/ Name who principally or primary are in the Godhead (i.e. Elohim) of Genesis 1:27
2/ At what point did God, the Spirit become God the Father, what point did the Word, (i.e. Logos) become the Son, and what point did the seven distinct expression of the God, the Spirit, become the Holy Spirit?
3/ Is God resigned and/or limited to just Three Persons?
4/ What is God's name? What is the implication of this name that God didnt reveal to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?
5/ Is the answer given in #4a above really God's personal name?
6/ What fundamental problems was God solving that necessitated the creation of mankind? (i.e. A&E and their progeny)
7/ Did God have an objective to achieve and purpose for creating A&E?
8/ Would you agree that "Though this be madness, yet there is method in it?"
9/ Is it hard or impossible for God to project Himself out, so to simultaneously and/or concurrently exist on earth and Heaven?
10/ Give two examples of a Being that has demonstrated the ability and power to see into humans' heart, know their thoughts, tell what they're thinking, or what they desire. In other words, here is one from 1 Samuel 9:19 and 1 Samuel 10:19&26, so please give your two different examples please

1/ Father, Word and Spirit
2/ Father, Word and Spirit have no beginning. But the Word became Son of Man in the incarnation.
3/ Depends on your definition of 'person'. But if you take your soul as one person, YHWH is one person too. The 3 are aspects of this one person.
4/ Don't know what you're getting at but there are many names referred to as God's. Depends on the frame you want it.
5/ N/A
6/I don't understand you or how this connects to subject of thread. Maybe you should tell
7/ As explained, the destiny of Man is to have the experience of the Godhead, not merely the angelic or supernatural.
8/ Not understood.
9/ When you see Father and Word in heaven and Word as Son on earth at the same time, you should be satisfied. John 3:13.
10/ Don't see the essence of this. If your examples are true, then we can go with them, can't we?

Csonice1:
I love this.
you are Blessed.

Thanks. You too.

KNOWMORE56:
The Almighty will reveal greater things to you, IJN.
Thanks so much for the post.

Even the 8 men in New York (they call them GB) know that Jesus is the true God.

Amen to your prayers. Thanks much and you're welcome.

DappaD:
Lol... Sure... And your Trinitarian cohorts who have varying definitions of this ‘trinity god’ of yours have already come here giving you some sort of accolades

I guess you also saw this movie then: The Matrix(1999) — so why not also compare your ‘trinity god’ to that Keanu Reeves guy since you’re all about the place making comparisons between God and a fictional movie?

I don’t think this has been sounded enough–or maybe I should tell you–the God that JW’s worship is different from all other worthless gods–this your trinity god included. (Micah 4:5)

You guys used to claim that it was neither biblical nor sensible to believe the Triune One. I have shown you biblical evidence no single one of you have been able to refute till date, with more coming, and now I want you to see the sense of this message.

Blabbermouth:
It's a bitter truth to some but at the end of the day, it is what it is - Trinity is unbiblical.
The only issue I have with JW's stand in the Trinity or No Trinity doctrine is them falsely equating Jesus with Angel Michael.
That's outrageously false!!!

Sorry bro. You just don't know the truth. While Emusan is doing a good job on his thread rubbishing the popular JW Johannine comma refutation, the whole scripture is replete with the message of a triune God. Before I even take you further, let me ask what your stance on the Triune Godhead is in explicit terms. Plus, you seem to have a really hard time with foreknowledge and predestination which shouldn't be that complicated actually. Maybe we'd look into that since I'm planning on a related thread soon.

haddeylium:
Why not let the author have it say? Why trying so hard to fit this into your own personal idea?

Plainly
That they may be one 'as'(syn; same extent or degree, in manner or role) 'we are one'
Where do you lift your coexisting from the beginning and theirs much more powerful?..lol

Compare with John 17;21- 'That they may also be one in us'...so, what's the degree of the powerful now?
Following ur interpretation of the verse- it's right to say they have been coexisting from the beginning too right?...Since they are all one now..lol

Unsolicited Tips in Understanding the Bible
We should let the Bible and not our personal opinion guide our thinking
Compare text with other statement that deals with the same subject
And Let go of the thought of Bible being a mystery; God words says it's clear and understandable.
You just need following the right channel
Thank you

You seem open enough, you should re-educate yourself on the doctrine of a triune God. Start here and go through all my posts #1-#6 and tell me what you think.

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Family › Re: Wife's Constant Sex Denial by DrLiveLogic(m): 2:25pm On Aug 18, 2020*

portune:
Nigerians your help is highly needed. Shaun, pls front page.

What kind of wife constantly denies of her husband full conjugal rights. Even during time a woman's body craves 4 sex, husband put condom on, she went into bathroom, urinated and fingered herself to satisfaction there only to come out sighing upnand down saying she is in a bad mood. That their business is not going well.

This case is serious. A man who rushes home once market closes. Rarely goes out. In fact fellow men always say he doesn't come out.

What on earth is the name of the devil manipulating my wife? For your info , I dont cheat on her and we never had any cheating case.
HELP ME PLS!!@

You should have had a serious talk with her first and find out why before coming online now. Is there something she's trying to subtly pass across you've not been getting. Get to her heart. Of course, don't be manipulated to do what is stupid but also be diplomatic if you're turning her request down. Marriage requires understanding. Don't just shove your rights in each other's faces. Except your relationship has gone sour and egos are getting in the way. This shouldn't be some big problem to solve.

If she pleases herself, then she has at least good libido. If she's not attempting manipulation, It would then shift to a matter of your performance in the BR. How hard can it be to please your wife? I could be wrong but from the way you even write, you seem to not be calm and collected enough to understand a woman's needs in the BR.
If your wife enjoys you, she should not be pleasing herself. Check your approach. Maybe you're too selfish, only want to climax and leave, not knowing that she must also climax to balance the equation.
How about pre-intimacy, caress her sensitive parts and get her stimulated, tickle her. Treat her like sex is about her too. Also tease her with the right words during the day building up to the action. Look clean and desirable enough. If possible change all your underwear and what you wear in the room to something appealing. Take a bath with nice scenting soap and even brush your teeth before you guys begin. You could even bathe each other, c'mon.
These kind of matters are too petty to take up the forum's space.

Christianity Etc › Re: G.O.A.T. Movie: Son Of God - How The Logos Devolved For Humanity. by DrLiveLogic(op): 11:06am On Aug 18, 2020*

Meanwhile,

#BONUS#
DID YOU KNOW?
That angels are not sons of God in the true sense of the word. Now before you come at me, chill out! and grab a cup of coffee, uh, no, no, soda's better. LMAO. I know you wanna refer me to Job 1:3 and Genesis 6:2&4 where they're called sons of God. You're right. Even the Hebrew word, 'Ben' used to address the angels is the original word for 'son'. Prolly know all that. But!!!....what you didn't know about the Hebrew word used for sons is more important. That word 'Ben' meaning son is used by the Hebrews in a way that's too much for our English of today to convey. It doesn't just refer to a male child like in English, but actually refers to a male child who is fully grown and able to take full responsibility for the family in His father's stead - a delegate or ambassador of the family. It is for the one who can speak when the father is absent and his word stands as if it were the father's.
In hebrew culture, a male child will officially attain sonship at the age of thirty and will have been thoroughly trained in the legacy of the family prior. We see then that the son arises from both procreation and then maturity/training for delegation.
This is the original Hebrew concept of the word son. However just as language often develops, the word 'Ben' was later derived to be applied to delegates or representatives in general even without blood ties. So we would call employees acting in a company as representatives the sons of that company or its owner even though having no blood ties. Mere servants, depending on their status, could therefore be called 'Ben' (sons) in the sense of delegates.
In this sense, before Abraham had a child of his, Isaac(Jesus typology), he called Eleazar out of all his employees, the son of his house, Genesis 15:3.
Also Priest Eli's boys, as well as many others through scripture were called 'sons of Belial', 1Sam 2:12, Judg 19: 22, because they represented Belial's legacy. Job was called the greatest of the sons of the East, Job 1:3 as in those to be reckoned in the Eastern region. Many who served prophets were called sons of the prophets, 1Kin 20:35, 2 Kings 2:3, though having no blood ties with the prophet. Leviathan, is called King of all the sons of pride.
Job 41:34 He is seen in all haughty ones and is king over all the sons of pride

All the above are not son-father relationships but more like official or role-based relationships, say, servant-master.
It is in this derived sense of 'Ben' and not the original, that certain angels who had a high status to represent the Godhead as delegates were called sons of God. It has nothing to do with having the Godhead DNA. Only members of the Godhead have this, found in the blood of Jesus, which he died to gift humanity so Adam will fulfill his destiny of becoming a son of God. Hence in NT, Jesus is distinctly called the 'only-begotten' son of God (the only one having the DNA, no angel does) i.e. a son in the original sense of the Hebrew word.
Angels are mere servants and delegates not sons but Jesus acts the role of servant, Son(in the true sense), and God hence God being all in all.

PS: Look out for the sequel thread soon where I unravel the mystery of the 3- in-1 and 1-in-3 Godhead in the simplest and practical explanation.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › G.O.A.T. Movie: Son Of God - How The Logos Devolved For Humanity. by DrLiveLogic(op): 11:05am On Aug 18, 2020*

Soon: Look! Up in the sky, riding on clouds. It's son of Man, it's son of God, it's, it's.....the Logos!!

We all prolly saw the movie Spiderman back in, guess '02, featuring Tobey Maguire as Spidey cum Peter Parker. Now if at any point in the movie you saw Tobey, you wouldn't call him Tobey but Peter when human and Spidey when he transforms. Yet the truth remains whether Spidey or Peter, he would in reality, still be Tobey. Obvious?

##Tobey(Logos)- Peter(Son of Man)-Spidey(Son of God)##

Well it seems so many have trouble grasping this simple fact in the realities of the universe. There is the One who before creation was simply called the Logos, who created the universe but remained hidden from creation in the Father's bosom, John 1:18, until the time to act His role in creation came. What role was he to act? The Son of God. So we can title this real life movie being acted during the time span of creation: "Son of God". But just as for Toby to act Spidey, he must first act as Peter, so the Logos must first act Son of Man before transforming to Son of God.

As son of Man/Adam, he is an unblemished Adam, free from the fall, being formed from his divine Logos-substrate which generated his pure blood type, hence had to come through a virgin. Yet the omnipotence in his Logos-substrate was kept sealed up only to be unveiled if he passed the test of pure sacrificial obedience that Adam failed. In this state, his full divine abilities were therefore sealed up and he only experienced his divine nature and attributes, hence less than the Father, depending on Him. After he passed the test, he was then resurrected by the unlocking of his omnipotence in his Logos-substrate inside him and became the Son of God, Romans 1:4

As Son of God, he now was set free from his limitations as son of Man, having his full omnipotence of his Father unleashed from his Logos-substrate, lacking nothing found in the Father and is the full representation/image of the Father. However, even as Son of God having full privileges with God, he is still less than the Father. Why? Because this is simply a role he came to take for the creation, Adam, so that through him, all in Adam can experience full privileges of the Godhead. Through his union with all men, i.e. Him being in them and taking over every part, they experience this same state of Son of God. Hence son of God is for the creature not for the creator and the position is subject under the Godhead. The Logos is only helping man to achieve what he could never in his own ability.

This was God's destiny for Adam, to be a son of God/image of God. God who calls things that aren't yet as though they are already said to Adam "You are gods, all sons of Elyon..." as per Adam's destiny which was yet to be realised but unfortunately Adam failed to fulfill this, God says "...but you will die just as a Man", Psalm 82:6. So God Himself had to come help Man become God.

Who else could make men experience being God but God Himself. No angel could give man that experience as they've never had it but only the Logos. It's His part in this real life movie.
However, He is still ultimately and always was the Logos and as Logos, not only has equal privileges with the Father but is equal with the Father, neither being the greater or less, or first before the other, but both equally First and Last, Alpha and Omega, Revelation 1:11

4 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: TECHNOLOGY!! - One Of The Greatest Proofs Of God! by DrLiveLogic(op): 12:31am On Aug 17, 2020

Tamaratonye1:
Plus,I’m still waiting for you to provide something other than blind assertions, duplicitous apologetic fabrications and pompously hubristic bluster, to support the idea that your cartoon magic man

C'mon Tantrum dear, quit already with the disingenuous presentation of yourself as the keen seeker of this knowledge. You've taken your stand that you will never go through the path offered to know faith so let's give it a rest.

Don’t even bother trying to lie about the Dover Trial, because I have all the transcripts, including the 127 page summing up by Judge Jones

LMAO. And having the 127 page transcript automatically makes you a qualified analyst. You obviously don't know what to do with it. I dare you to invalidate the points in the given review of the trial. That's how to logically make your case.

Behe’s bullshit was dissected and shredded by actual knowledgeable biologists within a week of the publication of that fatuous little tome.

Amateur Tantrum and her usual huff-puff, LMAO. Always skimming through materials on sites without any in-depth understanding of subjects. Science ain't politics but is objective. Critiques don't invalidate a position, not even by larger numbers. Both theory and critiques are thoroughly analysed, with back and forths and in the end, only the more logical stand. You ought to have learnt that by now from the theory vs theory lesson. After all back and forths, Behe has successfully challenged a pillar of Darwinism, random mutation by demonstrating its impracticability. FYI, that upholds ID and deals a huge blow to Darwinism.

Actually, the entities and interactions in the scientific papers I’ve read aren’t imaginary,

Not all are. Neither is any of your immaterial part though never to be found in scientific papers. You've often investigated one but refused doing the other.

unlike your sad little cartoon Donald Trump in the sky, invented as a political “justification” for bloody Lebensraum wars by piss-stained goat herders. Along with at least one instance of kidnapping underage girls as sex slaves, which your cartoon magic man, if it ever existed, was apparently quite happy with.

I have no idea about this imaginary friend of yours. My advice: investigate your real immaterial parts accessible to you and forget the imaginary.

Indeed, given the number of “megachurch pastors” I’ve seen reported in the news, being arrested for playing “Hide the Sausage” with 12 year old girls, and having read the account of the mythology fanboy known as Dennis Rader, who used parts of your mythology to “justify” his sickening torture and sex murder of an 11 year old girl, I’m tempted to ask if fantasies involving fucking and torturing underage girls are the real motivation behind your brand of mythology fanboyism. Is that why you cling to this shitty little mythology and its mixture of farcical and iniquitous assertions? Because you’re a Torquemada wannabee who can’t wait to start pursuing his own anachronistic Inquisition, with a side salad of de Sade’s Justine for good measure?

Had you faith, you'd know to distinguish creator's ways from religious dogmas and manipulations and concupiscent passions of professors. He demands faith, justice, mercy...only. Learn from the life of Jesus Christ, creator-incarnate, the divine mind and its antagonism to even religious sects derived from his own constitution for not meeting his standards and you could guess his disposition towards today's vile christianity.
And if you're doing dirty linen, you've only scratched the surface. Even more base and vile atrocities than you know are committed under 'christianity'. This is nothing new, men muddy everything given to them, even pure science, for their unquantifiable frailties and selfish interests. Any wolf can put on Episcopal regalia and any can be an assembly. Also the sheep can fall into error ignorantly or rebel altogether but creator knows his own by his standards 2Tim 2:19-20 and he's not the least bothered that His name is dragged in the mud by any category of men.
He set the world under laws of equilibrium, the immutability and perfection of which proves his faithfulness. Newton states it as "action and reaction are equal and opposite" and in his appointed time to judge the whole world, all brutes and faithless will get served while his repentant sheep will get mercy for he is no respecter of persons nor of even christianity. Think then, only of your standing for justice will uphold itself.

What part of “Just because the behaviour of physical systems requires intellectual effort to deduce, doesn’t mean that those systems are themselves intelligent” are you too stupid to understand? Gravity is as mindless a force as one could wish for, but it made you possible. Which is probably yet more testament to the mindlessness thereof.

Though you've demonstrated logical ineptitude by claiming evolutionism is an irrevocable absolute in spite of its loopholes and gaps and also lumping ID with religion and deities though having naught to do with it, here I assume you didn't understand my argument and is particularly why I deemed it courteous to you to reply your post.
Let's break it down. Objects themselves don't have to be intelligent, but relationships between them are principled and structured rather than haphazard. A gem may not be intelligent, but the formation of gems under constant and defined pattern is where lies the intelligence as it always takes the same set of conditions to produce them. The planetary bodies may not be intelligent but being sustained under defined order e.g. gravity and interplanetary laws, there lies the intelligence. Even the molecular structure of each object is very organised and structured, nothing haphazard and all this order has the purpose of sustaining their existence.
Science is the study of these universal laws and order. Order towards purpose is hallmark of intelligence. Each time we identify this, we automatically admit ID, even if an evolutionist. The only question ID asks is can we identify order, laws, principles? Just like if principles undergird logic and SM, it's because we who created the structure think in a structured way i.e. intelligently.
It's also by these identified principles that we build robots to execute our intentions and in hypocrisy, we call that AI, fcol. Funny how you avoided the part of AI being designed after human body systems. What better way for the scientists to admit intelligence in the design of the human entity? all proving ID. If intelligence is found in human design, equally in other creation, then the creator possesses intelligence and coordinated thought.

Cheers
Tamaratonye Trendy Tantrum

Why is it you come off as really embittered throughout your post only to end with "cheers"?
Tbh, I only intend a cordial exchange between us regardless what we disagree on. Remember our "tango" should've been "romantic" but you seem always bitter like a really sinister dancer who keeps pricking feet with her heels, for pleasure.

Science/Technology › Re: Bones Of Dinosaur Specie That Lived 115 Million Years Ago Found In England (Pix) by DrLiveLogic(m): 9:52pm On Aug 16, 2020*

Atheists will soon rush to this thread and start sounding as if any of these findings or science at large disproves anything in the Bible or is anti-god. Worse still, Christians who have poor knowledge of the bible will give them reason to believe so by misrepresenting the bible and living in denial of scientific facts.
Please Christians, pure science is from God, don't misrepresent him on this thread.
Let's read this before we do so.

kingxsamz:
The 6000 year old crooners are already flooding the thread with their ignorance as usual.
This is a thread based on dinosaur remains
VS
A thread based on some imaginary Jonah who got swallowed by a fish.

Shows you how dumb religious folks are on this forum.
They'll accept science, as long as it aligns with their beliefs.

mansakhalifa:
They are gonna invade this thread...

You know who?

The guys who often go: "my holy book says that the Earth is only 3 years old"

*runs out of thread*

MJBOLT:
your god was invented 2000 years ago

[s][/s]

blingxx:
awon "rapture" gang ..you sabi them well

They are here. LMAO. I don't blame you guys though, I blame my fellow Christians for making you think like this

mjabdulk:
Are these scientists telling us that this animal was their before the descending of Adam (AS) on the earth?

Bro, you might wanna take a look at the thread in the link to answer your question.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Christians And Unending Controversies by DrLiveLogic(m): 12:26pm On Aug 16, 2020

Epositive:
The Bible is a story book filled with different characters, contradictions, lies and archaic ideologies. How the hell am I supposed to model my life with such a book, in this 21st century?

I quoted you because in your last post you seemed to suggest you would like a logical and healthy exchange. I do hope you mean so though
First, there is no single contradiction or lie in the bible. Second, unlike the religions of the world that give you a book to guide your conduct, the God of the bible gives you a substrate from His very being, faith, and expects you to let that grow in you and produce His life. That's true Christianity. This is also why the Christian believes God is a good and loving God. It is sometimes obscured reading from the OT of the bible but it becomes undeniable as one relates and grows with the substrate of His being, faith.
However, even genuine christians haven't learnt to relate with the substrate and hence produce only contradictions to the divine.

Christianity Etc › Re: Christians And Unending Controversies by DrLiveLogic(m): 8:24am On Aug 16, 2020*

hakeem4:
You’re a Christian if you believe the existence of the Christian god.
You’re a Muslim if you believe in the existence of the Muslim god.

Any other definition is superfluous

So what category do we call those armed robbers, perjurers and rapist who claimed to be Christians but don’t behave like Jesus?

You’re just trying to say that bad people are not Christians. Which is actually the other way around religion makes people do bad and evil things

And you set this standard as Jesus Christ or God of the Christians? undecided

Who are you to tell us about what Christianity is? Who's a woman to tell what it's like to be a man? smh.

psucc:
Many shall call me Lord, and I shall tell them depart from me ye workers of iniquity, for I know you not.

The above are words of Christ. People tend to divide the populace based on religious line but when it comes to Christianity, there is something special, you may profess to be but if your acts are not in tandem with its teachings, you're merely an usurper.

Good one. It's funny how the theme of fruit and actions, rather than mere profession as God's standard is all over the bible, yet people act like it's not. God Himself will reject many clergy and church devotees.

Christianity Etc › Christians Please Let's Stop Our Denialism in Science - An Appeal by DrLiveLogic(op): 8:20am On Aug 16, 2020*

So I was on a thread sometime where a discovery of fossils was made dated to several millions of years back. Then came dissenting comments from professing christians, attempting to completely rubbish the findings and the dating for obvious reasons of assuming it to conflict with biblical facts. It was really despicable that they did that thinking they were actually defending God.
One thing I think we should note is the fact that if God created the universe and specifically, set laws to structure it's existence, then we must accept whatever is built on those laws (emphasis on laws i.e proven indisputable and impeccable), as true and consistent with God. And please don't be overzealous to try to make it match with your derived ideas from the bible. If a proven law or discovery contradicts what you've believed from the bible, I can assure you that it could only be your understanding of the bible that's wrong.
Take note, not the bible itself being wrong but our understanding.
Surely everything in the Bible is 100% true but can be misunderstood, especially as there arise complications transitioning from the spiritual dimension to the natural and also from one human language to another.
No, the bible is obviously not a straightforward book readily grasped like a novel or science digest. It is a spiritual book with more encryption than plain communication.
So as to the matter of the history of the universe that was discussed: science has proven by reliable, though not 100% accurate methods, that the earth, if we wanna play really safe, is at least several million years old and using radiometric dating, we deduce there were creatures that old.
The obvious challenge to the bible scholar would be that the Genesis account dates the creation of man to only about 6000 odd years. Fortunately, this is one of the easier-to-resolve 'contradictions'. Since we know biblically that man was only created about 6000 years ago, then it's safe to say the earth had existed long before Adam and there must have been a pre-adamic age. Even more fortunate is the fact that this is hinted all through the bible, right from the first verses.

Gen 1:1-2 In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth became a desolation and vacuity with darkness on the face of the abyss. And the Spirit of God was brooding over the face of its waters...

This all happened before the creation of Adam, so obviously there was a pre-adamic age that ended in annihilation.
So the point as in this case is, science, using proven laws will always agree with God and hence, not conflict with the bible which He is the source of excluding cases of miracles of course. So let's stop making ourselves look bad by living in denial of proven scientific facts. It's doing the God of truth too much disservice and turning honest and rational people off from the gospel.

Lastly, to be clear, I'm aware that there are several manipulations in mainstream science to push loopholed theories like Darwinism and some other incredulous likes down our throats, no different from glaring political bias of the media with info today. For those, we need to just properly scrutinize them under proper scientific method to uncover the gaps and loopholes rather than swallowing such. Fortunately science is objective, not to be monopolised by any group of scientists, so we can all independently investigate for gaps in theories.

Science/Technology › Re: Terror Crocodiles With Banana-Sized Teeth Preyed On Dinosaurs 82 Million Yrs Ago by DrLiveLogic(m): 3:56am On Aug 15, 2020*

[quote author=Ti/m/Cook post=92829817]It's not the same people who laid cables for transmission that said the earth is flat. There are different arms of science. Ben Carson, who's a good and well known doctor probably has no idea what goes on in space. That's cause that's not his field. He deals in medicine and surgery. Someone who's a mechanical engineer, civil engineer etc. can be good in their field and have no idea what goes on in space. Radio frequency, transmission is mainly done by telecommunications engineers, and has nothing to do with space science, astronomy etc. I minored in it, so I know.

I'm an atheist, and the big bang theory and theory of evolution are absolute bullshit. You don't need to believe in God to see through the bias. I've meet some other atheist/agnostics who share the same view both online (on Quora, Tumblr) and offline.

That you think the theories are true doesn't make you smarter than any other persons, whether religious or irreligious. IQ TEST DON'T MEAN MUCH IN THE REAL WORLD. Just the same way you can't judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, or judge humans but how well they perform in the classroom. You also can use IQ test as a valid measure of intelligence.[/quote]Sorry I quoted this comment, just wanted Tamaratonye5 to understand how atheists who understand science and logic cannot accept evolutionism as logical and absolute and can see through the obvious bias in MSM.
I would also like to ask if you believe in ID, sir?

[quote author=ne/xt/step post=92830537]3. The BigBang and Evolution are theories (as you rightly state). They are the current best rationalizations of how things came to be. Time has shown that theories are proven right, wrong, or refined, so who knows. Dismissing them because they don't seem plausible... well come up with something better and logical, that makes sense. That's the challenge.

One theory that "doesn't make sense" is time dilation based on speed: in summary go fast enough and your clock will tick faster speed (relative to a different person standing still). Clocks on GPS satellites are designed to tick 38 microseconds slower per day than on Earth to account for this. Practice, based on theory.[/quote]Sir, do you believe in ID?
I believe in the Bible through an unconventional means than logic but its sad that most who believe in the Bible don't even really know what it says. The bible doesn't promote the concept of young earth. It only dates man's existence on earth to about 6000 years ago. But the bible makes it clear that there were lifeforms on earth before man. That could have been the dinosaur age or whatever. Anyways, can't take that to the lab and by no means am I presenting it under the scientific method but just clearing the air on the bible because of how many here misrepresent it and make it look like scientific findings counter biblical claims.

Tamaratonye5, read up some more rational exchange from fellow atheists who understand scientific tenets. Observe what I said to you about theories in the above statements.

Sports › Re: American Fans Boo Players Who Took A Knee During Anthem Before MLS Match by DrLiveLogic(m): 4:03pm On Aug 13, 2020*

Kneeling is for sissies who succumb to peer pressure and slowpoke leftist hypocrites. Only shallow minded blacks will fall for the hypocrisy of leftists who in reality want them kept marginalised so they can always arouse their volatile tempers for political gains and dump them immediately aim is achieved.
Trump the "racist" has done more in 3 and half years for the black community and all America than his democrat opposition have in the last 40 years.
November 3, they'll learn again that Trump's base, the silent majority only keeps growing daily. MSM can only fool shallow slowpokes and immature youths.

PS: Those of you who will quote, just know one thing. I'm PROUD of my race and BLM isn't about blacks but about Marxists' liberal agenda. Go figure!

34 Likes 1 Share

Family › Re: Twitter User: “Marriage Is Not Beneficial To Nigerian Men". Do You Agree? by DrLiveLogic(m): 7:59am On Aug 12, 2020*

Marriage will not be beneficial to any man, nigerian or otherwise, who marries just to uphold tradition, worse still for mere physical attraction. Marriage should be treated just like business. You make an elaborate and detailed business plan to yield maximum dividends, you must for marriage too. Only marry a woman who can add value to the empire you're building. An accomplished woman is almost certainly wife material but even if you're marrying a less developed lady, her character MUST exude obsession to develop herself action-wise, not these lazy ass "sly" queens.
Same with kids produced from the marriage. Each child MUST become added value to your empire, meaning you raise them under stringent discipline to this effect. Therefore only a woman with potential to uphold your principles for your kids deserves a ring.
Anything less makes marriage a liability for the man and the woman sole beneficiary.
Could have said a lot more but I gotta go now.

Family › Re: What's The Best Way To Discipline A Child? by DrLiveLogic(m): 7:09am On Aug 12, 2020*

udoekere:
lalasticlala what do you have to say about this.i believe you also have a family...so what way do u think it's the best

If we assume the goal is to make your kids of great value to society. Nature has made life "no pain, no gain". Check with your muscles, we can never change that. It's up to us to research the limit of pain we can absorb to add extra value to ourselves.
It all begins with yourself, then. The extent of discipline you can apply on your child actually can never be more than what you've applied to yourself cause you'd subconsciously consider yourself hypocritical, extreme or unrealistic if you ever tried.
So what's the most you've endured to stretch you to actually make turnarounds in your life. Begin to apply it in principle to your kids and very early too.

Basic things first:

1/ Have you ever had to miss a favourite dish because you were late. That might have made you never be late for lunchbreak again. Apply that to your kid. Teach them the morning routine to get to school and set a time target for them. They miss it, they get very little chicken that day or they get beans instead of fried rice. That kinda stuff. Same with reading targets and chores you give them.
If you are not built on these, you'd bend and then you'd never get sustainable results but if you got steel will and don't ever bend for anything in the world, they'd learn to push themselves to meet set targets.

2/ Restrict pleasure to the place of rewards in their lives. If you make pleasure part of their daily life, you eventually etch it as a right into their subconscious. Do your kids watch cartoons and entertainment regularly? This is a setup to hamper success, rewiring their brain to seek pleasure rather than development and then when you would try to effect the discipline of capacity building, there's already a resistance built in their subconscious. But when you make such entertainment a reward of meeting self-development targets, then pleasure works in tandem with development.

3/ Mr Cane: Use of the cane is effective but depends on laws of the part of the world you live in and is recommended only if you've disciplined your emotions, I daresay. If you're gonna flog, do it like a robot, with neither pity nor anger. Never flog with emotions. Calculate the limit of pain that would hurt the most but not maim the child and minimal number of strokes. As little as three strokes would do because the brain registers the pain of even just one stroke to serve as deterrent. The use of the cane must be replaced with other deterrents once the kid has learnt to endure/"chest"(as we used to say) the cane and proves rebellious in spite of it. This is common with males.

4/ Never ever let your wife interfere with your disciplinary measures. Your standards must be non-negotiable in the mind of your kids if they will be most effective. Do not sacrifice the future of your kids for her transient feminine melodrama. She doesn't love them more than you do for all that.

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Christianity Etc › Re: See Four (4) Bible Truths About Hell Fire You Didn't Know by DrLiveLogic(m): 7:08am On Aug 12, 2020

Zzor:
where have you been DrLiveLogic hope you are good

I've been around on and off. I'm good indeed and what's the latest with you?

Christianity Etc › Re: Any Jehovah's Witness In The House? by DrLiveLogic(m): 12:12pm On Aug 09, 2020

Exmilitant:
Sometime ago, i was contacted by a witness and he started a bible study session with me using the book, What Does The Bible Really Teach? We got to a topic about Jesus Christ.... Actually, i want to know the true GOD and how to access him, i even created a topic here in order to get assistance in my search. So i considered (Stephen's) visits a prayer answered. Now my understanding about the man Jesus is that: he was a man like me and you all. He has a father and mother and brothers and sisters. He was married and had children. Quiet contrary to what you have in the Bible right? Secondly, his name is actually not Jesus! Suprised? It is clearly stated on page 6 of your own production, the brochure: the divine name that will endure forever.. Stephen is a dedicated witness faithfully doing his bit. But he isn't knowledgable enough. So i want a clear and precise explanation on the man Jesus joyandfaith. And why you continue to use the name Jesus after admitting, 'it certainly is not Jesus'.

Bro, if you want to know the truth about Jesus, read #1- #6 on this thread. Study These Six Thesis. Nobody can counter them and I show from the bible that he is the eternal Word before creation equal with Father and Spirit in one Being, YAHWEH. He then manifested and played the role of a fellow son of man and son of God for as long as creation exists to bring the sons of men to become sons of God. He was never an angel. You can use the imperfect analogy of a tetrahedron, having three equal faces and forming only one object but no face is greater than another face, such are Father, Son and Spirit who share one Name, Matthew 28:19

Christianity Etc › Re: See Four (4) Bible Truths About Hell Fire You Didn't Know by DrLiveLogic(m): 8:39am On Aug 09, 2020*

Chatinent, like I told your brothers like Maximus69 and DappaD on the other thread, Hell is the repercussion for sin and death, it is created by sin itself and is not the creation nor the judgement of God who never sends anyone there. It comes with the first death, the lake of fire is God's judgement and is the second death where he punishes everything that is not part of his creation including Hell itself, Revelation 20:14.
All men enter into a covenant with death and hell through the bondage/addiction of the sin they choose and if they die in that state, their souls will be found in hell until their judgement when their bodies will be resurrected but the souls of those who find salvation in Christ will be in Paradise until their resurrection to receive their own rewards.
When a man keeps a viper as a pet to play with in a city where snakes are outlawed, when he gets bitten by the viper, he suffers the consequence of his choice in the torture. This is like his first death. However even if he survives the bite with injuries and is apprehended by the police, he must still face the sentence of the judge, which is like his second death.

The reality of hell is seen in the story of Lazarus and the rich man, Luke 16: 19-31. Of course some lie that it is only a parable. Jesus taught in parables but study every parable of Jesus, even the parables were speaking of realities. So were it a parable, it will still be speaking of what really happens in the afterlife.
However, it is obvious that this was a real life story because he mentioned the specific names of the characters involved (Lazarus, Father Abraham, a rich man) and even showed what God said and what the angels did, and also described their earthly lives. He never mentioned specific names in his parables. No, this was no parable, it was a real life story and tells exactly where souls of men go immediately after death and are kept till their judgement from God, while their bodies decay in the ground.

Again, the reality that immediately after death, men go into Paradise or Hell, waiting for their judgement is also shown here on the cross, where the criminal enters Paradise the very day he dies
Luk 23:43 ...and Jesus said unto him, surely I tell you: today you will be with me in paradise.

And also here, we see that he'll is only for keeping until the judgement of God, which is the lake of fire.
2 Peter 2:4 ...... because if God didn't spare the angels that sinned and were put in the bottommost hell, and given up to chains of darkness, reserved until judgment...

Here is what God incarnate warned about hell

Mar 9:42-48 ...and whoever offends one little one that believes in me, it is better for him that a millstone was hung around his neck, and he was thrown into the sea. And if your hand ensnares you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Hell, into the fire that never will be quenched, where their worm doesn't die and the fire doesn't get quenched. And if your foot ensnares you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter limping into life, than having two feet to be thrown into hell, into the fire that never will be quenched, where their worm doesn't die, and the fire doesn't get quenched. And if your eye ensnares you, pluck it out, it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into Hell's fire, where their worm doesn't die and the fire doesn't get quenched.

The Lord warned vehemently to enter the kingdom rather than hell because both are equally real. Only two possibilities to live in beginning here on earth and while awaiting your judgement in eternity - hell or the kingdom of God as seen above. Choose wisely.

So bring your overused Adam scripture here and the Ecclesiastes one, let me help you trash the lies once again.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Hellfire Real? by DrLiveLogic(m): 6:07am On Aug 05, 2020*

Blabbermouth:
Cc: Maximus69, Captainman, Chatinent, DappaD, kobojunkie, Daejoyoung, other JW's in the house, and fellow Christians....
When Christ Jesus said "Anywhere 2 (or more) are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them" , if perfectly understood and acknowledged, we would be having more of a fellowship discussion and not aimless arguments where everyone is trying hard to shove his/her own resolve down anyone's throat.
When we discuss, we kind of ignore Christ and move on to propagating whatever essence less doctrine we have - sadly, this is what immaturity actually is. How can you be arguing about things pertaining to Christ when Christ himself is present? How can I be arguing that Buhari is a Muslim when Buhari himself is present? Since Christ is here, why shouldn't we just ask him?
That being said, I will implore anyone reading this to sustain the humility to UNLEARN and RELEARN as long as whatever you are relearning is coming from the horse's mouth (from Christ himself). Even if its hard, you should come to realize that when push comes to shove, you belong to Christ Jesus and not some denomination or sect.
Alright, that being said, let us answer the question- IS HELLFIRE REAL?
When Christ Jesus was praying (John 17), he asked that whereever he is (in Glory), there should his servants be. Hey beloved, there is also a similar arrangement for the devil...
Matthew 25:41
"Then shall he say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed INTO everlasting fire, PREPARED for the devil and his angels"
According to Christ, wherever the devil is (in torment), there shall his followers be... (Note this, we will reference it soon)
According to Christ, a place was/has been prepared for the devil and his angels.
Now the contention is, is the "Everlasting Fire" or say "Lake of fire" a location (I.e. a place) or a state (of total inexistence)?
Let's hear from Christ again
(About the second death)
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and Sorcerers and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the LAKE which BURNS WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE: which is the second death" -Rev 21:8
It's about to get interesting now, see what the after-verse says
"For without (I.e. Outside the gates) are dogs, and sorcerers and whoremongers, and murderers, idolaters and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" -Rev 22:15
What does this tell us?
1. Those whose name is not written in the book of life will be outside the gates
2. (From the first verse), they will be with the devil and his angels
3. The Lake of Fire is a place!
Perhaps there are still fickles of contention, trying to believe that the fire still means "eternal cut-off" or a state of inexistence, let's use another verse to round this up...
PS: The Beast (Alias Antichrist) is a man! (2 Th 2:4-
Rev 19:20 - "And the beast (Antichrist) was taken, and with him the false prophet (also a man) that wrought miracles before him with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshiped his image. These both were CAST ALIVE into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE"
Perhaps you rushed that scripture, go back and read in-between where it says - CAST ALIVE..... Here is a rhetorical question
Where were they Cast into? Hahahaha
Is the Lake of fire or ETERNAL FIRE a place (location) or a state of eternal inexistence...
If truly the scripture cannot be broken, if truly a line cannot both be straight and curved, then verily, the ETERNAL FIRE is a location and it is real!
Proof:
1. The Lake of Fire is a place (Rev 21:
2.Those cast into it were ALIVE (Rev 19:20)
PS: You can try explaining how a being can be alive and at the same time Nonexistent
3. The torture in the Lake is forever and ever (Rev 20:10)
PS: You can try explaining how a nonexistent being can be tortured.
4. 1,2,3 are confirmed by Christ!

PEACE!

While I agree with some of what you've said, it seems what you've left out and JWs don't know is the fact that hell is the repercussion for sin and death, it is created by sin itself and is not the creation nor the judgement of God. It comes with the first death, the lake of fire is God's judgement and is the second death where he punishes everything that is not part of his creation even hell itself. If your child puts his hand in fire and gets burnt, it is a repercussion but if you flog the child for that so that he will not do it again, that is your own penalty to help him never to make the same mistake.
All men enter into a covenant with death and hell through the bondage of sin and if they die in that state, their souls will be found in hell until their judgement when their bodies will be resurrected but the souls of those who find salvation in Christ will be in paradise until their resurrection to receive their own rewards.
This is easily seen in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Of course some lie that it is only a parable. Jesus taught bin parables but study every parable of Jesus, you see the use of similes e.g. "The kingdom of heaven is like..." and even the parables were speaking of realities. So were it a parable, it will still be speaking of what really happens in the afterlife.
However, it is evident that this was a real life story because as he said: "There was a certain rich man...". It was something that really happened in other words. No. This was no parable, it was a real life story and tells where souls of men go immediately after death, awaiting their judgement from God, when their bodies decay in the ground.

Maximus69:
This analogy of yours, how is suspending living creatures to excruciating pains throughout eternity a penalty to help them never to make the same mistake?

God is not trying to help the sinners, they are not his children but of the devil, John 8:44. He is putting everything that is against His idea out of His way. The point of analogy is to show you the difference in the two deaths. Also imagine a man who goes to steal and gets shot and wounded during a crossfire. That is a consequence of His action but not a judgement. When he is finally caught, He must still face the law of the land and end up in prison for the peace of the land.

Christianity Etc › Re: John Chapter 1:1 And The Trinitarian Dogma by DrLiveLogic(m): 5:30am On Aug 05, 2020

Meanwhile, let's do a quick one on whether Jesus is angel Michael.

Joh 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

So we know from above the history of Jesus from before creation, we see that He was with God and created all things in one Being with God (I'm coming to this creation part when I clear my table, lols.)
Do we find in any part of his history that he was made an angel. No.
He had never manifested anywhere at all but remained hidden in God's bosom. When you go down this history and get to verse 14, we find what happened next.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Does anyone see anything about the Word being an angel in his history here before he became flesh because I don't. All I see is He was with and in God and from the bosom of the Father, he came out as flesh through a virgin. He never manifested before then and surely he never manifested as an angel.
But we know Michael has always commanded the warring faction of angels and had always been visibly active.
And what does Paul say about if he manifested as an angel?
Also, learn to look at the context of verses to get the meaning the author intended.
Now read this slowly again and stop robbing your poor soul.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil
Heb 2:16 Because doubtless he did not take on the angels'(meaning angel's flesh from the context); but he took on the seed of Abraham(Human flesh)

The point clearly being made is that he never took the flesh of angel's but of men. Sheesh!
Yep. Paul didn't mince words about it, he never took the form of an angel but only the seed of Abraham. Just as John said, from being with God in the bosom of the Father straight to taking on flesh or becoming flesh. Why that? Because God wanted to put the world in subjection to man and not angels. That's why he never manifested as an angel but only as a man.

Heb 2:5-7 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Some of us need to carefully read the bible. The whole of Hebrews 1&2 was written to show that Jesus is not an angel but greater, the only-begotten from the Father's bosom for that matter. Only means only, duh!

How then can Jesus be angel Michael who has and will always be an angel and who was never called by that name when we know the Word only took on flesh of men and never angels.

I also see many aren't tired of the shallowness of quoting verses of after Jesus became a Son and using those to separate him from Father. There was no such distinction when He was the Word before he became flesh as the Son.

Christianity Etc › Re: John Chapter 1:1 And The Trinitarian Dogma by DrLiveLogic(m): 5:27am On Aug 05, 2020

#5 Creator of Heavens and Earth vs created angels (is Jesus an angel?)

Chapters 1&2 of Hebrews were written particularly to point out that the Word is not and never was an angel but the creator who took flesh of mankind and became the only begotten son. It is a shame that after Paul's painstaking effort, some mischievous fellows still dubiously claim that the Word is angel Michael. I have already begun treating this but will continue where I left off. Paul quites the OT prophecy below

Psa 102:22-27 ...when the people are gathered and united, and the kingdoms, to serve YAHWEH who subdued His power in His way and cut short His days. They will say, "O God, who were taken up in the middle of your days, yet your years are from generation to generation for in the beginning, you laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the product of your hands. They'll perish, but you'll remain. Yes! They'll all wear out like a cloth and as a vesture you'll change them, and they'll be changed while you are the same, and your years will have no end"

Here, the psalmist describes how the nations gathered to worship God, YAHWEH saying that though his earthly days were cut short, in reality, he lives on because he cannot possibly die who is creator of the heavens and the earth and the psalmist also shows that rather than creation putting an end to Him through the cross, he is the one that will rather put an end to his creation and change it like we change clothes i.e. you can expect Him at anytime he chooses to put an end to all he has created including angels and create afresh like how we take off old clothes and put on new clothes.

Paul cites this prophecy by the psalmist, to prove the son is the uncreated creator while the angels were only created, as he shows that to the son, it was said that he is the creator but of the angels it was said that they are created beings
Heb 1:7-12 ...and in fact concerning the angels was said, "who makes his angels spirits and his attendants a flame of fire" but to the Son was said...also, you, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of earth and the heavens are a product of your hands: They'll perish but you'll remain and they'll all wear out like a cloth and as a vesture you'll fold them up, and they'll be changed but you are the same, and your years will not fail"

So Paul proves that the Word who became flesh and then the son of God, who was also crucified is obviously the YAHWEH worshipped by the nation's gathered in the psalm and fulfilling the prophecy
According to Paul and the prophets, the Word is one Being with YAHWEH

Christianity Etc › Re: John Chapter 1:1 And The Trinitarian Dogma by DrLiveLogic(m): 5:25am On Aug 05, 2020

#4 WORSHIP OF GOD
To Hebrews, worship and service of any heavenly being are one and the same thing. Also, some christian sects today claim that there are many gods apart from YAHWEH. Even if we claim God's angels or men are also called gods, at least we can agree that YAHWEH commanded that He is the only god among all the "gods" to be worshipped and served.

Exo 20:2-5 KJV I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The Lord Jesus himself said to Satan:
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve

Clearly worship/service of god belongs only to YAHWEH.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

But above, we see that YAHWEH who commanded that He alone be worshipped and no created god also commanded that all the angels worship Jesus Christ because the Father and Word are one Being. Obviously, God is not contradicting Himself.
Now watch again!

Isa 45:21-23 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I YAHWEH? and there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

YAHWEH who also calls himself Saviour, the same title with Jesus, declared that unto him alone all must bow the knee and confess to for no there is other god besides Him. The Romans adopted this very concept and made people worship their emperor's by bowing the knee and confessing to the Emperor/King. This worship which includes the knee bowing and tongue confessing is only for YAHWEH, the emperor of the Universe.
But to whom will all knees bow and all tongues confess?

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It can be no clearer that YAHWEH and the the Word are one Being as god as by comparing the two above texts. And to bow and confess to Jesus as Lord/Supreme is to glorify/worship the Father at the same time because they are One Being as god.
We see also in the following text that the Father and Word bearing the title "Who is , was and is to come" (shown in #1), who as one Being will judge both the living and the dead, (shown in #2), that are on one sovereign throne (shown in #3). It is this Father and Word who are worshipped by the elders in heaven as One Being and both called the Almighty.

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

We also know Israel worshipped and served YAHWEH. A good question is who did the apostles worship and serve? Should they serve an angel or any created being. If so, they are idol worshippers.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James boldly declares that he is a servant of God and Jesus Christ because they are One Being and he is not an idol worshipper therefore.

See also who Paul served
Phi 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
Paul served Jesus Christ (Also Romans 1:1, Tit 1:1)

Once again it is clear that YAHWEH who alone is to be worshipped and served is One Being with the Word who is also worshipped and served at the same time.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

Christianity Etc › Re: John Chapter 1:1 And The Trinitarian Dogma by DrLiveLogic(m): 5:24am On Aug 05, 2020

#3 THE THRONE OF GOD
It is evident that God owns the sovereign throne in the whole universe and every other is subservient to His. We also know that Jesus is enthroned at the right hand of the Father. This statement has made the carnal mind think that the Father sits on one throne and the Son sits located beside Him at the right.
But does the bible teach that Jesus is literally seated at the right hand of the Father or does the bible teach it is figurative as both Father and Son as One Being have one throne?
Let's find out:

In the apocalypse, John is given the clearest revelation of the heavenly administration in all the scripture. In Revelation 4, he describes the throne of God surrounded by elders' thrones. Notice he doesn't describe any throne located at the literal right of God's throne because there is no such throne.

So just where in heaven is the throne of the Son, the Lamb of God?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

The answer is clear here that it is only one throne, not two different thrones, belonging to God and also to the Lamb. Both are one Being and have just one throne in heaven and his servants serve him.
Now watch again!

Rev 20:11-13 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Furthermore, notice that it is this same Being, God who sits on the throne that will judge both the living and the dead. Some say this is the Father because the heaven and earth fled from his face. True, but it is Father and Son in one Being more precisely.
Remember we have shown in #2 that it is both YAHWEH of OT and Jesus Christ in one Being who will judge the dead and living.(2Ti 4:1, Ecc 3:17)
Again watch!

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

Finally, we see even more clearly here that its the same god who sits on the single sovereign throne who all the elders worship. Surely this is the Father, YAHWEH whose throne was described in the midst of the elders in Revelation 4.
But its also he who will judge the dead(unrighteous) and the living,(the prophets whom he will reward with his saints). Of course we know who it is that judges the dead and living by now. Surely it is the Lord Jesus(2Ti 4:1). Again, we see here Father and Word, as one Being, bearing the title "Who is and was and is to come"(as shown in the #1) in one Being sits on the single sovereign throne and will reign.

Clearly, the right hand of the Father is not literal since there is no throne at his geographical right in John's heavenly vista or any portion of the bible but it is figurative of his Omnipotence. I can treat this separately from the bible after we have all agreed that YAHWEH is Jesus.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God

N.B: The gospel is simple. God became a man. And acted as both God and man at the same time. To teach men how to worship God right and to make it possible for and show men how to become sons of God. So quoting scriptures that reveal God's humanity which happened only about 2000 years ago takes nothing away from the Word's original existence as one Being with the Father.

Christianity Etc › Re: John Chapter 1:1 And The Trinitarian Dogma by DrLiveLogic(m): 5:23am On Aug 05, 2020*

#2 JUDGMENT OF GOD

We know that YAHWEH, the God of OT revealed Himself to Israel as the one who will judge both living and dead.
Now notice in the verse below, it is God who gave the commandments to Moses, YHWH, who is to be feared, who will also judge every work.
Ecc 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil

Also here,
Psa 96:13 Before YAHWEH who comes, for he comes to judge the earth: he will judge the world in justice, and the people with his truth.

Also observe another verse in the same letter that shows the same YAHWEH is the one who will judge righteous and sinners alike.
Ecc 3:17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

But who are we told will judge all men?
2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick(righteous) and the dead(wicked) at his appearing and his kingdom;

Clearly answered. Paul says Jesus will judge the living and the dead. Comparing with OT texts, clearly Jesus and YAHWEH as one Being will judge all men. Now, reading again, its clear to see that Paul called God(YAHWEH) and Jesus as the same Being.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

N.B: The gospel is simple. God became a man. And acted as both God and man at the same time. To teach men how to worship God right and to make it possible for and show men how to become sons of God. So quoting scriptures that reveal God's humanity which happened only about 2000 years ago takes nothing away from the Word's original existence as one Being with the Father.

Christianity Etc › Re: John Chapter 1:1 And The Trinitarian Dogma by DrLiveLogic(m): 5:22am On Aug 05, 2020*

JWs, you've been made to believe so many lies. I will make sure I have you guys' time shortly so that I'll deal with all heresy. For now, chew this and respond to these claims.
Understand that Toby McGuire may act as Peter Parker and Spiderman in a movie but if for that, when watching the movie, you now say he's no more Toby McGuire, it means you're uninformed and in denial. The Word came to act the role of son of Man and son of God to make men sons of God but He will always be the only true Word and God. So no matter how many scriptures you quote of he's role as son of Man and son of God, separating Him from His Godhead, you can never take away His Godhead and the worship of Him. Now read and understand the following six posts and tell if the bible is lying

#1 NUMBER OF GOD
It is obvious that in order, God is the only Being who can be "First and Last/Beginning and Ending/Alpha and Omega" at the same time because he existed before every created thing and is the only One who will remain when he decides to end all existence.
The Simultaneous "First and Last" is a number only the Uncreated can have.

Isa 44:6 Thus saith YAHWEH, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

We see here that YAHWEH, the God of Israel is "First and Last" and is the only true God. Follow me now.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, Who is, and Who was, and Who is to come, the Almighty

He further calls himself here, the Almighty/Omnipotent (El-Shaddai), an OT title of YAHWEH. Angels are mighty, even Michael is very mighty but only YHWH is Almighty/Omnipotent. From the OT text and in this part of Apocalypse, It is clear that YHWH Almighty's number is "First and Last"

Now, observe:
In the beginning of the apocalypse, John meets with Jesus Christ, who introduces himself as
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last...
Rev 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

We see that this is Jesus Christ who was dead and resurrected. By his number here, "First and Last/Alpha and Omega/Beginning and Ending", we see that YAHWEH Almighty of OT and Jesus Christ of NT are one Being.

Little wonder that even when the Word became flesh, he testified he was on earth as Son and in heaven in the Father at once, a bilocation impossible with any being but God himself.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Q.E.D. Let's move to another prerogative of God.

N.B: The gospel is simple. God became a man. And acted as both God and man at the same time. To teach men how to worship God right and to make it possible for and show men how to become sons of God. So quoting scriptures that reveal God's humanity which happened only about 2000 years ago takes nothing away from the Word's original existence as one Being with the Father.

Christianity Etc › Re: TECHNOLOGY!! - One Of The Greatest Proofs Of God! by DrLiveLogic(op): 7:20pm On Aug 04, 2020*

Tamaratonye5:
When evidence is provided for this purported “soul” entity, I promise I will sit up and take notice.

If you've still not taken notice of your immaterial part you've had all your life, even presented in the questions and rather await a scientific paper, you may never till you leave earth. Denial's that much a bitch.

Tamaratonye1:
A pathetic lie. I'm atheist because mythology fanboys like you have failed to support your fantasies with genuine evidence for millennia.

Pass the buck was always your fav sport. If you live long enough, might end up the G.O.A.T and then 'pass' on to face reality in afterlife.

Science has flushed IDiot assertions down the toilet, such as Behe’s fatuous attempt to redefine “irreducible complexity” to fit mythology fanboyism.

Bullshit. All that IDiocy consists of, at bottom, is “I can’t imagine how a testable natural process could produce X, therefore no testable natural process can produce X, therefore my cartoon magic man from my goat herder mythology did it”. That’s all IDiocy IS at bottom. As was established at the Dover Trial.

Smh. Had you learnt to always adhere strictly to logic than occasional bandwagonism, you'd never have fallen prey to human prejudice in Dover, which btw, has been upset by recent findings covered in Behe's Edge of Evolution and Spencer's latest works as well as since ever. Why I said you've got to develop a mind of your own and stop droning for MSM. Anything handled by humans gets tinged with politics, even science. Only unadulterated logic and science, not scientist's biases, will survive time in this domain. Uphold logic, even if left all alone. Too, understand better the fraudulent trial by Judge Jones' Dover Trial Myths and learn why Behe's work is one of the 100 most important of the 20th century Behe Interview and why there is a growing scientific movement, Revolution
You've also shown quite clearly that asides the ersatz straw man narrative of biased scientists and MSM, you don't understand ID tenets, which btw, you don't get from arguing irrational 'creationists' but from ID institute.
Like I advised then, before arguing against a concept, go to source. Understand Real ID
Point of correction, biased scientists flushed ID down their toilet minds. Logic itself, is always ID's baby which I show at the bottom as well as here. ID in Science . Be bold and look truth in the face, don't shy away from these articles like last time.

Plus, in case you failed to learn this, the origin of life is NOT part of evolutionary biology. Evolutionary biology concentrates on explaining organismal diversity once replicating organisms exist. The origin of life is the remit of an entirely different discipline, namely organic chemsitry. Which you would have learned if you hadn’t slept through your science classes, and wasted your time with goat herder mythology.

LMAO. Try enlightening your crew who try to discard ID, theorising gene origins from RNA world due to unguided chemical evo in the 'primordial soup', LMAO, and consequent GPE, as the setting of bio evo. Without such anti-ID evo rhetoric, there shouldn't be much of a debate and what you've been doing here would be pointless since it does not discard ID.

A large body of observational data provided by your ilk says otherwise.

Always remember - source! - Heb 11:1

“Treat my cartoon magic man as real and he will talk to you” … .

No wonder you never found faith. Smh. You were twiddling with imaginary friends, ignoring realities inside you, waiting for a scientific paper on them. Had you not chickened out on the ten questions, you'd have been dealing with those realities and also seen that science can NEVER be the full body of knowledge in our existence. It is only the inner realities that can guide you to the realisation of their creator.

One other thing, Tantrum, to take to bed tonight. I usually tell y'all who reject ID for not being demonstrable in the lab, Logic is never on your side.
Consider. If the SM and logic, developed by humans, is systematic, principled and purposeful, hence considered intelligent and reliable methods, doesn't that tell of intelligence in humanity that developed them?
Of course, but did we test the claim in a lab?
Likewise shouldn't we determine intelligence in nature from the observation of such systematic, principled existence and relationships in creation with an obvious purpose of sustenance? Do we actually have to take that to a lab?
Equally hypocritical that we'd invest so much intelligence to create a robot after human image and turn around and say there's no ID behind human design. LMAO.
Denial's a bitch and will at some point, deny even her staunchest loyalists. Pray tell, denial can't suck any less even with myriad of fellows riding along in that train.

----------------------

Cheers
Tamaraton Tetragammatron Tantrum

Alright Tantrum, wanted to end the circles before but just felt to leave you a parting gift of a proper understanding of ID, not evolutionist's straw man version. And while Behe or any IDer may speculate the source, ID itself only logically establishes intelligence in creation, not a description of this intelligence and not tied to any religious idea/myth, like I said from the start.
Faith will be known as I've suggested and since you're scared to begin, let's end it there.

Christianity Etc › Re: My Reply To Someone That Seeks To Be Converted From Being An Atheist. by DrLiveLogic(m): 11:15am On Aug 04, 2020

kingxsamz:
The day I see miracle growing people's amputated limbs back is the day I'll start believing in this god.

It will only prove the supernatural to you but it won't give you faith to save your soul.

hakeem4:
Even if i see a limb grow back. it does not in anyway prove the existence of any god. At best it shows the person has a genetic disorder which allows it to regenerate his/her limbs like a salamander

Let me first understand your case please. Are you saying there is no kind of feat that you'd ever call supernatural?

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