₦airaland Forum

Can anything come clean out of russia?
Russia is an evil, China is the devil.
Iran's a wicked spell, NKorea's surely hell.

Wish Russia and China could work together and develop spacestaions large enough to host their countries, migrate to space and rent some for Iran and Nkorea so we can all have peace of mind on earth.
And of course, let's not forget that they take all liberals, deep state and democrats along. Problem solved.

OtemAtum:
The problem with your understanding is that you don't know what God Almighty is. Okay let me tell you in this way, God Almighty is the TOTALITY of Existence. More like saying God Almighty is the whole of a being, while we are the bodyparts. For example, if God Almighty is you while you are the right hand, I am the left hand, Jehovah is the anus while Allah is the beards. Do the hands, the legs, etc bother about not having freewill when we all function together as God Almighty? We function as the bodyparts of God Almighty. We ARE THE GOD ALMIGHTY ITSELF.

Now again, everything in existence sums up as God Almighty and this summation is a great energy source that can change from one form to another.

This isn't coherent. If we are all part of God, can you show what part then is responsible for the source code?
This part then will be the only intelligence and no other part will have any intelligence?
Also this universe as we know it is not a constant state but is always morphing into changing states. This would then make god not a constant but ever changing himself. How then can we define god - as a variable?
Also the models we've developed of the universe show a starting point for it and a possible end point. Does this god then have an endpoint/self destruct and a starting point?

OtemAtum:
You can jump down a cliff at will, but if you did, then it is part of the grand scheme. It is already within the Code of your existence right from the origin. As I earlier emphasized, every being and everything is a part of God Almighty, so whatever you do is not out of the scheme.

What will you say about the following?
a.) Going by your proposition, your will then is passive and nonexistent. It cannot be a force but is only acted on by god's source codes. The only existing will is that behind all source codes.
b.) You therefore have no freewill and not free but only a slave.
c.) Your god then believes only in servitude, not freedom and yet you just said you don't. You did not will to jump off the cliff but were only programmed to.
d.) I tell you your belief is wrong and that must be god acting through me. You say you're right and it is the same god acting through you. Your god obviously exists in the principle of contradictions. Hence every single effect and it's contradiction should exist in your god, if he is the totality of existence.
e.) But he only manifests servitude in you and I but has never manifested freedom. He has failed here in his active principle of contradiction.
f.) Is this because freedom, the opposite of servitude, is too great for your god that he cannot manifest it in his existing principle of contradiction? He therefore is not the totality of existence.
g.) As a perfect balance of contradictions, your god himself is therefore non-existent as opposing forces/principles must cancel themselves out.
h.)Every effect in the universe based on a passive creation is therefore directly due to god. The idea of creation was then pointless. You and I exist for nothing. your god was silly to create us in the first place if we can effect nothing.
i.) Do not forget that you have yet to show the impossibility of my initial proposition thus far about god's granting of freewill with all the consequences but only suggested yours which now cancels itself out

gensteejay:
All your logic on issues on this thread is not beyond the content of the Bible, a so-called perfect book that's filled with errors and contradictions.

I'm sure you've found a way to apply this same warped logic to justify the several acts of genocide, violence, destruction, and slavery that your god, Jehovah, a so-called merciful god committed against millions of humans, according to the Bible.

Gross deceit and manipulation.

Welcome aboard.
Please note that the OP is not about the bible which you have now introduced but focused rather on creation, a universal contact point with the creator. I am of the opinion that creation alone without any aid can testify about the creator. So let's get back to logic, what exactly is your view and challenge on the creation and the creator. You could read through my posts in the thread and critique too. We would base all here on simple reason and logic.

OtemAtum:
As earlier stated, the program of God cannot be undone. Freewill or no freewill, a being is still expressing the things within its source codes and cannot do out of it. All beings are parts of God Almighty and we express God Almighty in our own capacities. There's nothing like infection from any external thing, since what is called God is the TOTALITY of Existence.

Are you saying I cannot choose to jump down a cliff all by myself? Are you also saying if I do, the only possible outcome is what is in the mind of god?
Again, when you say "freewill or not", are you recognizing the existence of freewill but its impotence to effect against the will of the creator or are you denying the existence of freewill?

Again, will you then say that if god is behind all actions taken, then it is his will to cause all consequent mayhem as in our experience?

OtemAtum:
What brings the infections? For anything to bring the infection, then such a thing is an equivalent of God the programmer. Since God has no equal and everything is made by God, how then is it possible for something to infect and change the way a being is programmed by God? Except maybe God has an exact opposite with same power and capabilities as itself. But there's no such things.

Again, this logic seems flawed. Only an infection equally or more powerful than god would amount to the creature responsible being equal to god. If the creator is greater than the creature, then god can undo the infection.
Ultimately what brings the infection is freedom in the freewill which was given to eliminate bondage of servitude. With freewill, there is then a choice to do according to program or choose an alternative which may cause an infection. So we can say rather, if anything can truly create an infection, it is truly free but if anything cannot possibly do, then it is truly bound in servitude. This is the more plausible definition of servitude.
So maybe god has an "alternative" but surely not an equal since he can always undo it.

gensteejay:
All your logic on issues on this thread is not beyond the content of the Bible, a so-called perfect book that's filled with errors and contradictions.

I'm sure you've found a way to apply this same warped logic to justify the several acts of genocide, violence, destruction, and slavery that your god, Jehovah, a so-called merciful god committed against millions of humans, according to the Bible.

Gross deceit and manipulation.

Welcome aboard.
Please note that the OP is not about the bible which you have now introduced but focused rather on creation, a universal contact point with the creator. I am of the opinion that creation alone without any aid can testify about the creator. So let's get back to logic, what exactly is your view and challenge on the creation and the creator. You could read through my posts in the thread and critique too. We would base all here on simple reason and logic.

OtemAtum:
This your god that needs servitude is not what I know to be God Almighty. You're actually talking about religious gods. I'm talking about God Almighty, being the Totality of Existence. There's nothing like servitude as regards this God Almighty, which is the TOTALITY OF EXISTENCE.

First off, I didn't say that was my god but I'm proposing possibilities to be considered. Second, let's give definitions so we're on the same page.
We can eliminate the word servitude and say "doing what you were programmed to do" is what I mean. Also a god that never gave freewill is obviously the one that believes in servitude. So if we're eliminating servitude, we must include freewill.
So tell me, isn't it possible you're no longer doing what you're programmed to do if you got infected?

OtemAtum:
God the creator does not have a parallel or an equal, so nobody can infect the codes of God with virus. The computer programmers of the earth have equals who can infect their codes with viruses, not God.

Not circumspect enough. God as omnipotent can definitely create beings of less status than himself and if he creates these beings by strata, then the ones in a higher strata can influence those in the lower strata. If all these beings are given freewill by God to choose to serve him or not, then the higher ranks that choose not to serve him may create a virus that affects the lower ranks that choose not to serve him and there would go your logic that all creatures are secure from infection? So how can you prove you're not already infected?

Bacteriologist:
Hugh the numerously debunked watchmaker arguement again. *eye roll*

Sorry to disappoint bro. It was numerously critiqued but NEVER successfully debunked nor can be, except if you hoped on debunking it with an "eye-roll".
But it's okay to keep telling yourself that to put you to sleep except that one final day you would close your eyes and when you try to open them, find your wishes do not change reality of eternal laws.
However a few good questions were raised in the critiques against the watchmaker, each of which I believe can be answered along with any other still to be raised, the end goal of the OP in fact. But like I said before, the inability to provide answers to consequential questions does not invalidate what is proven and established by logic else all we've established by science will be invalidated by all we still searching out.
Feel free to bring up your questions then.

skukimania:
Train a child in the way he should follow....

You should learn to answer questions logically. I clearly said your child may not ever do it. He may be properly trained and all but in the event it happens, will you support mutilation?
I intentionally asked that to get to your heart, and show human hypocrisy. Now answer again, will you support mutilation if it ever was your child involved, (though it may never be)?

That's savage and animalistic. As inhumane as rape may be, mutilation is more.
Penalties should serve only as deterrents, this goes way beyond that. There are better ways like heavy fines, public disgrace on national television and up to five year jail terms with hard labour. Some men here who are feigning support for this are doing it only to avoid rapist labels or being in women's bad books. Just trying too hard to score cheap points with women.

Mummymahdi:
Rape Minor, boys, young and old women and even brutally kill d victim is less barbaric ?

I'm not saying your son ever will but I hope you will support this if he ever acted that stupid?

skukimania:
Because no one knows how hell fire really looks like. No one has really been there and come back after death. Some people don't even believe in it's existence. Were it possible for people to go and feel how things are there, it will definitely be a different story.

This sounds logical but in many cases reality proves otherwise. There's more that drives people than fear at times. Also, if you support this, not saying he ever will, but I hope you wouldn't bat an eyelid if your child ever acted so barbaric.

newdawn2017:
was d rapist acting civil he igbored d no! command & went ahead force himself on a fellow human being, violating her?? Was that not savagery? U re a rapist urself, u & all who liked ur comment

I'm not the guy you quoted but is mutilation a commensurate penalty? If someone stole money from you, should he necessarily be killed or his hands cut off? Is the penalty I suggested above for rape not good enough?
And also tell please, I know your son may never do such if you bring him up right but tell me if you ever got to hear, that by any chance it was your child, would you support this?

OtemAtum:
Speculation as how? Can what is made do what it is not made for? Can a computer program made to calculate 2+2 be used for driving a car at the same time? I am made with a specific code and specific instructions and I can't do anything that is not within the codes and instructions. I am performing God in my own way, same as you do and same as everything in Existence does. So where is the speculations coming from?

Following your logic then, a computer infected with a virus that damaged it's OS is doing what the manufacturer intended?

LordReed:
...

https://www.nairaland.com/1412636/non-christian-chatbox-sticky/214#91759275...

This is understandable if not expected eventually and contrary to what most might tell you, I see more hope in you finding the real god this way.
I completely respect your decision and can only assume you have met fallible men along the line who may not have done an impeccable job introducing Him to you, myself possibly included. That is actually the downside of depending on fallible humans to learn about the creator and why he didn't restrict the discovery of himself to we fallible men or mere logic. Logic indeed will give credence to god's existence but that is the most it will ever do. What is more important to your hungry soul however is to touch and make contact with this god who alone satisfies the inner desires he created you with.
So if you only would be sincere and diligent in the search for him, do know that he would preparing you to meet him beginning from basic conscience first before whatever other means possible( Hebrews 11:6)
So do feel free if you are keen on this search, to engage the more reliable method rather than depending on the more fallible.
Depend rather on what he has left equally with all - to follow the law of good conscience in every breath you take which he continually permits solely for this purpose - his daily mercy to humans- I call it.(1Timothy 1: 5,19, 1 Timothy 3:9, Romans 2: 11, 14-15) I promise you, doing this will lead you along the line, if you never give up to a real undeniable encounter with whichever god is true and will bring his love to your soul saving you from all pains and burdens. Should you ever have any more questions, I'll be willing to offer my help.
Best wishes.

LordReed:
What you don't seem to grasp is you are already assuming the god before you've provided evidence that the god is there. Its like a detective coming on a murder scene in a kitchen, a bloody knife on the floor. He then says if the cook did it the cook will use a kitchen knife, here is a kitchen knife therefore the cook did it. He has not tested the knife for the cook's fingerprint, he has not established that the cook was in the vicinity, he has not even established that the owners of the kitchen even employ a cook. He is speculating and very heavily so. You are in similar position, you've assumed an answer already and are plugging in the data to fit your answer.

Conservation of Energy only works in a closed system how have established that the system you are referring to is closed? Conservation of Energy refers to energy, how have you established that energy is analogous to a disembodied being? You can't just assume your answer and tell me you proved it.

You really need to read slowly what I'm giving to you. You seem to be shooting stray bullets and deviating totally from the logic on ground. This sometimes can be as a result of our lens reflective of an assumed bias.
Have you realised yet that your detective illustration is way off our method although it can be reordered to model it.
You see, only a foolish and unskilled detective can think that the cook must use a knife to kill when there are a million ways to murder. Surely such a person could never have made it to such a stately office. Let us now remodel your Illustration realistically and logically.
What you are playing now is that detective who sees the bloodied knife and still cannot assert that a being having blood must have come in contact with this knife but maintains that unless we saw with our eyes that very being, we have to remain unassertive (in this case taking blood as intelligence and the knife "having" blood as a human should help you see)
It is also as good as going into the forest, seeing an abandoned, well designed and furnished cottage and not being able to tell that a human must have been here at some point, speculating rather it could have as well been just the elements or some forest wildlife that put together such a design. You can also apply this to a dilapidated factory found in the woods.
You wouldn't do that in real life, I trust. Because we inherently know that every design is reflective of the designer's intelligence and a design can in no way be of greater intelligence than the designer.
Back @OP, to see a robot is to immediately assert that a human or a being as intelligent or more than a robot exists and is responsible for it. To also see intergalactic systems designed intelligently as well as human anatomy laden with intelligence, even the humans themselves being given intelligence is to immediately assert that a being of greater or equal intelligence to the humans and intergalactic systems is responsible. This is consistent with CoE and only a newborn or retarded will be unable to assert this. I know from our convo that you do not fall into either of these categories.
That the designer of humans possesses at least equal or greater than human intelligence is an axiom we must begin from and begin to question what follows, this is what I am hoping to give answers to. And as I said before, you do not have to accept logic if it wouldn't satisfy you, there are other ways to assert the existence of a creator.

OtemAtum:
Speculation as how? Can what is made do what it is not made for? Can a computer program made to calculate 2+2 be used for driving a car at the same time? I am made with a specific code and specific instructions and I can't do anything that is not within the codes and instructions. I am performing God in my own way, same as you do and same as everything in Existence does. So where is the speculations coming from?

Following your logic then, a computer infected with a virus that damaged it's OS is doing what the manufacturer intended?

LordReed:
You conflating 2 different types of scenarios. In the gravity case, it is well evidenced what the effects of gravity are on a falling body. On the other hand the conservation of matter has no evidence linking it to any sort of intelligence or God being. The 2 are not the same. Your speculation carries no evidence so it remains a speculation.

Well, would we say you're coming home now though still contradicting yourself somewhat, perhaps why you think I'm conflating, which is actually the other way round.
Now, If as you have agreed, we can project with the law of gravity and ascertain our thought experiments simply because gravity is 'well evidenced', we can as well project with the CoE which also is a well evidenced law and even an axiom.
You have heard the saying, you can't give what you don't have. Well the truism of such statements is never questionable and it is simply a derivative/adaptation of CoE.
If so, then it should be undeniable that a being cannot create intelligence or any property at all it doesn't already possess. If a robot possesses intelligence and communication property, it is by all means, because the human that created possesses such intelligence and communication else it couldn't give it such. A sitting rock, contrarily, can never create a robot. It has not such advanced intelligence in itself and can't give what it doesn't have.
Therefore, projecting with CoE the thought conception of god, we can ascertain this god possesses all human ability and maybe more. So a who or what god depends on what you call a human created by god.
If you cannot be convinced by CoE and it's logic that god must have intelligence and every human ability in himself, though anyone at all who would go for logic should already have accepted the logicality, then I would take it that logic and the scientific method wouldn't do for you and maybe would prefer some other method which you are also free to demand and if I have any other, I might offer.
Also remember that this thread is tailored for any questions about god and his creation that might not be clearly understood.

LordReed:
This by definition is speculation. If this is that then that is this, that is speculation especially where no evidence is offered. You are not providing any evidence for what you are saying. I cannot investigate the reality of what you saying except as a thought experiment.

Then I suggest you change your definition of speculation.
Something isn't a speculation if it has the words "if...then" as long as there is a law upholding it. It's only speculation if there isn't such law.
If I pushed you off a high cliff without any impediments surrounding it and any external influence, then you would free fall to the ground at the acceleration of gravity and not float in the air. This is no speculation because law of gravity supports it and we don't need to act it out to know, it is a fact even as a thought experiment that will never happen.
Once again, I have given you by the law of conservation of matter, proof of god's innate ability of communication and intelligence. We should move on then to how he expects us to relate with him, if you wish to know or whatever else you would rather know about him. The latter is more the purpose of this thread you know.

LordReed:
I am not equating the Von Neumann machine to god. My question again, how are you convinced it is a who as opposed to a what. A Von Neumann machine is an example of a what. Don't get stuck on the example. Besides it doesn't even matter if it is created, the question still stands.

I think I have done jamesid29 the honor.

OtemAtum:
No I don't blame God for leaving no trail. I have already told you that what God wants me to be and do is what I'm already doing and will do till I die. I am just and offshot of God Almighty and I perform my own part of God.

@ the bolded is what I called speculation because you have provided no proof to ascertain this. How can we know for sure and by reason, that you indeed are doing this already and not deceived, remembering also my analogy of the underground resources of nature.

LordReed:
This was your answer: All that doesn't really matter as much as the fact that the created intelligence by law of energy conservation can be no more a personality or intelligence than the creator of that created else something has been added to the initial material constant.
It establishes nothing, it remains a speculation. I can as well say the same of any manner of creative agents that I can dream of, doesn't make my speculations established.

By the scientific method or by logic, it most certainly does. What we're saying is like this: a 1 cannot by itself create a 2 nor a 2 create a 3 but a 3 can by itself create a 1(three 1s together to be precise), a 2 and a 1 together or at most another 3 alone but of course never a 4. The 1 or 2 then, created from 3, can not possibly have more than what a 3 has.
So then, if intelligence is a 1 and matter another 1 together making up a human, then the creator of the human must be at least a 2 having both in itself or can even be greater, having another 1 to itself hence equal to a 3 itself or can be yet more ad infinitum. God then logically and not by any speculation has every human ability and prolly more and is most certainly at least a who or even a who+ if a human is a who.

LordReed:
Ok so men were created 3billion years ago?

If you're going by the bible, man was created about 6000 years ago i.e. 6 god days (2Peter 3:8,) but the earth is way older than man's existence (Gen1:1-2)

OtemAtum:
Have you heard of Energy as neither being created nor can be destroyed before? The summation of all energies in existence is GOD ALMIGHTY. If God Almighty needs me to do other things different from what I'm doing and what I'll do in the future, then it means that it probably forgot to ingrain it in my source code originally, then God is flawed

You know for something as important as your existence, the bolded is quite a risky speculation. We have been provided with reason on earth for a guide, so you should be willing to establish this by reason. What if you are required by god to find out your purpose by deeper introspection and careful contemplation beyond what is readily available on the surface and all you've done now is look on the surface and blame god for leaving no trail. Afterall, the greatest resources in nature are formed under the earth and not on its surface.

LordReed:
My mission is not to convince you of anything. I asked why you are convinced so what I want is for you to tell me what it is that convinces you.
Scientists are following observable phenomenon, you are projecting from observed phenomenon to yet to be evidenced conclusions. What you are doing is speculation.

I would assume you understand the scientific method. The scientific method involves trying to establish reliable laws from observable phenomena. The aim is to establish laws upon which scientific systems are built. These laws once discovered are taken as constants within their operating environments. They don't change with time and to build on/project using these laws is never speculation but always certainty.
So once again, I have answered your question using the law of conservation of matter and it is no speculation then.
Sufficient as that is, I can actually tell you how I myself know apart from physical logic, if you accept that. But it is only mystical and you may not accept it as much as you may not accept what is written in a bible.

StrikeBack:
Entertaining to be honest

You could have critiqued the OP if there was any falsehood in it but I take there isn't, logically speaking.

Great. God one Boris. Everyone should stay away from those inhumane people.
China simply wants to install surveillance wares through their latest devices to steal information and no telling what more damage than even that.

LordReed:
If the only reason you want to have a conversation is to win then you are not ready.



So basically you are speculating.

I'm actually more disposed to avoiding the convo if we would arrive at a logical conclusion that would not lead to a derived action because logically that would be a waste of time. If you can convince me of the irrationality of my OP, then I am willing to change my course of action but are you for vice-versa.
Are scientists speculating when they follow universal laws? If not there is no speculation in what I wrote up there as it is clearly derived from the law of conservation of energy.

OtemAtum:
Yes I know what God Almighty is. It is the Totality of Existence.
What I do and what I won't do are already ingrained in me by default. What I am doing already and what I will do after is what I'm here to do. There's no general assignment given to anyone by God(the Totality of Existence).

Can you prove either of this or is it just another speculation of yours you tell yourself to keep happy.

LordReed:
One I am willing to have.

The question is would such discussion lead you to a change of action? If not, then what would be the point? Your answer to that will determine if we should engage. Also, are you gonna want to find out how to relate with this god practically afterwards? if not, why not?

LordReed:
How do you its a who and not a what?

thanks jamesid29 for your link though I'm yet to watch. But I think many really tend to deviate from the essentials when it comes to discussions on god. The question on whether it's a who or what really falls in the non-essentials. I think it's all relative to the speaker's lingo but is nevertheless an objective fact.
Take the human-robot creation chain for instance. Many would call a human a "who" and a robot a "what" while some might still call the robot a "who".
All that doesn't really matter as much as the fact that the created intelligence by law of energy conservation can be no more a personality or intelligence than the creator of that created else something has been added to the initial material constant.
So also, if you call yourself a who, what created you must be either at least a who or greater than a who, if he left something of himself out of your makeup. And whatever you're capable of must only be equal or less than what your creator is capable of.
So if you can reason and communicate, then your creator must do at least that much and possibly more.

OtemAtum:
That a first cause exists isn't the problem, but that the first cause is Jehovah, Allah, Moloch or any of these other puny gods out there is the crux of the matter. God Almighty is the totality of existence and it is an insult to the totality of existence when you handpick any of these riffraff creatures like Jehovah and Allah and call him God Almighty. It's a big slap on the face of nature to call dull religious gods God Almighty.
Science is an offshot of God Almighty (Totality of Existence) and the knowledge of science is far far greater than the knowledge of Jehovah, Allah and all other religious gods combined.

So do you know who this God Almighty is then or how to arrive at this knowledge? Do you also know how to ascertain that you're doing what this God requires of you in your fleeting time on earth.

Judybash93:
My point is, the writer seems to be very sure that it is God who created everything, what if that's not the case? Do you see evidence of design in a rock?
Moreover, choosing to believe that God designed everything is like saying oh yes, humans survive by breathing in carbon dioxide without proof and trying so hard to defend the claim without really coming to a conclusion as to how he/she came to that conclusion. We scrutinize everything except religion. Do you believe that paracetamol can cure HIV? Do you believe that the earth is flat? If your answers are no, then why?

This is a diversion yet it does nothing to dispel the fact of a god. The rock is simply a lower intelligence. Yet the fact that rock formation as well as for all other relief comes under defined constant principles and not haphazardly still shows there is intelligence behind its existence.
Then again, why digress to these lower intelligences when the OP focuses on higher intelligences like your own self. Can you say you are a random existence with all your meticulously designed genetic coding or even with the brain you were given for reasoning indicating that your creator obviously has such brain.
And then to the popular question of which is the true god. I think that's why we were given intelligence and I believe that in the intelligence he gave us, he must have left his trail even without any religious books. The real question is will you dutifully follow the trail or are you just here to wish away his existence?

OtemAtum:
Speculation as how? Can what is made do what it is not made for? Can a computer program made to calculate 2+2 be used for driving a car at the same time? I am made with a specific code and specific instructions and I can't do anything that is not within the codes and instructions. I am performing God in my own way, same as you do and same as everything in Existence does. So where is the speculations coming from?

Following your logic then, a computer infected with a virus that damaged it's OS is doing what the manufacturer intended?

ImaIma1:
This has been the problem in many homes. Money is the basis of authority and control. Money! Money!! Money!!!

In this family, it is obvious that it is only the person who brings in the money that has a say in that matter. Their foundation is obviously wrong.

Interesting. So what would you say is the right foundation?. And what should be the basis of authority and control, then rather than money?

ImaIma1:
Marriage counselling and books will be of great help to understand this. Intending couples and couples having difficulties should avail themselves of these.

Funny you, whatever I read in those books can at most form my personal opinion. I was asking what yours is. Could have stated it in a few words, couldn't you?

OtemAtum:
That a first cause exists isn't the problem, but that the first cause is Jehovah, Allah, Moloch or any of these other puny gods out there is the crux of the matter. God Almighty is the totality of existence and it is an insult to the totality of existence when you handpick any of these riffraff creatures like Jehovah and Allah and call him God Almighty. It's a big slap on the face of nature to call dull religious gods God Almighty.
Science is an offshot of God Almighty (Totality of Existence) and the knowledge of science is far far greater than the knowledge of Jehovah, Allah and all other religious gods combined.

So do you know who this God Almighty is then or how to arrive at this knowledge? Do you also know how to ascertain that you're doing what this God requires of you in your fleeting time on earth.

Judybash93:
Before you can declare that we're a creation, you'll need to come up with a proof of the existence of a creator... Moreover, you're only referring to the Judeo-Christian deity due to your bias of not considering other religious deity... Why isn't it Krishna or Shiva, at least those deities came before the God you're professing.

If you read OP, I think you have one more proof of god apart from the many you always had. Of course you don't expect that I'll be trying to prove that you're a creation.
My bias you say. Fine, I can justify my 'bias'. But it's not really about what name you give God but about relating with the true God and fulfilling your purpose for existence.

doggedfighter:
Foolery

Don't get you?

LordReed:
Can you show me examples of someone holding evolution as true who says it proves there is no god? Meanwhile, I will show you examples of people who accept evolution as true and still believe in a god.

Many evolutionists believe that the evolution narrative is justification for no god, the world simply began with a godless bang and just keeps evolving to what we have today.

Anyways my main point is that technology verifies god's existence as shown in OP, so what would you say about it?

I agree with the first part of your sig. btw. But your definition of faith is so wrong

festwiz:
There must be a great euphoria living bereft of logic.

Fascinating I must say.

I'm not too sure if I got you.

Isa 1:18 Come on, and let us reason together, says YAHWEH. Even if your sins are as scarlet, I'll make you white as snow and even if red as crimson, I'll make you as wool.

Excuse me. Just love that verse so so much. I kinda like the idea of a god that wants us to reason with him, don't you?
And one that's ready to clean up my mess no matter how bad if I just can come and be cleaned. Sweet mercy!!

Anyways, here's where I'm really going at today.
Technology today has put even the faithless on a most privileged pedestal to appreciate the creator because in tech today, we get to create complex designs to perform complex and automated functions .
So now we can understand better, the amount of intelligence that has to be invested to create intelligent systems that work and solve problems.
Take a robot for instance, there is absolutely ZERO plus ZILCH probability that a robot will ever accidentally happen. Simply because it is a complex intelligent design. Anyone who believes that a robot can never randomly occur will only be a fool and hypocrite to believe the complex human body or complex intergalactic systems of space are randomly occuring designs.
Even the argument of evolution either way it swings, will take nothing away from the creator of the universe because as long as things are evolving intelligently and under defined principles rather than meaninglessly, it still is proof of an intelligence behind existence and it's development.
So when some evolutionist says evolutionism can discard ID and then goes on to admit defined principles guide evolutionary sequences, he literally becomes the most informed dummy in the school of doodle-heads. Makes one do a smh! LMAO!!
So the next time a stupid, lame thought comes to mind that there may not be any creator, run a quick delve inward into the human anatomy up to the genetic coding or outward to the intergalactic systems of space, re-educate yourself and get ashamed for even being able to hear such illiterate thoughts. Don't worry, no one's looking.
And yeah, as long as you still feel guilty about such dumb thoughts, you can confirm your mental health isn't drastically impaired yet. So don't beat yourself down, okay. Shit happens. LMAO.

Rom 1:19-22 As the fury of God is revealed from heaven against all irreverence and unrighteousness of men, who resist truth in unrighteousness since what is to be known of God is obvious in them as God has made it obvious to them because the invisibles of him through the creation of the world are clearly seen, being comprehended in the things that are made, both his eternal power and divinity so that they are without excuse because knowing God, they didn't honor him as God, neither were grateful but became foolish in their mode of reasoning and their foolish heart was obscured. Asserting to be wise, they became blockheads


Now, of course, the idea of a creator always brings up so many unanswered questions, many of which can easily be answered but even not knowing some answers can't take away what is already proven beyond doubt, right?
So, more than any generation, we, the most informed and enlightened, have more reason to believe without an iota of doubt the existence of a creator.
Share your thoughts and critiques if reasonable.

You can also follow my upcoming series as I attempt to answer many insurmountable questions about god and his creation, as well as drop any questions you would like to be answered in the comments.

Janosky:
You have seen IMMUTABLE PROOFS on this forum that Jesus Christ himself confirmed he is the son of God in heaven.
But you are trying hard to prove Jesus wrong, nothing else wey I go show you from your Bible wey you go believe....

I don't need your weak proofs to know that Jesus is the son of God. I already showed you that while creatures might take on the name sons of god, Jesus is the only-born son( the greek meaning is that he is the only son having Father's gene) meaning no difference between Father and Word in Godhead qualities and nature. No creature has the Father's gene else they would be the same with Father.
He is the only one who was already existing but hidden inside the bosom of Godhead Being(Jn1:18), before he eventually manifested as flesh. Others are created out of matter. But He simply came out from inside the bosom of the Being called God.
Ignorant Janosky doesn't know that Jesus was already alive inside God's bosom and the Father always talked with the Word like "..let us make man in our image..." and they were creating together as one Being before he took human flesh to act as a son. LMAO.

Ignorant old papa, Janosky also believes God created an angel and told all the angels of God to worship the "angel" he created. Janosky makes God a liar who said no one but God alone must be worshipped below
Exo 20:2-5 KJV I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Janosky, just tell us God is confused who said above that no creature must be worshipped and then commanded all the angels to worship Jesus as below, and even the 24 elders bow before Him.
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him

Ignorant old papa believes that God created an angel that showed up after all the angels had manifested and called Him the "First and the Last"(Revelation 1:17, Isiah 48:12). Tell us how a created being shares the title, "First and Last" with Yahweh.
Now go back and answer my three questions

***These are the remaining two of my three questions. Tell us Janosky, how Jesus is an angel and yet the 24 elders call him the Almighty, who will judge the dead and living, and they even fall on their faces to worship Him.

Also tell us, you learner how Jesus is an angel and yet has one single throne together with the Father, from which the river of life flows, as John saw the throne of God and the Lamb below.

Rev 11:16-18 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2.) Jesus will judge the living and the dead and the same one is seated on the throne of God and the Lamb, as one Being with God receiving the worship of the elders.
Now with all the above, can any creature be worshipped besides God as Jesus was worshipped by the angels and all the elders fall on their faces and worship Jesus, the judge of the dead and living, even calling Him Almighty.?


3.) Does any creature have the single sovereign throne belonging to both Father and Lamb in one Being from which the river of life flows?
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and the Lamb.

Now let's get back to your daylight robbery.

Janosky:
WAYO Desperado, misquote & TWIST Hebrews 2:16..

@ Hebrews 8:9 its the same Greek word EPILAMBAINOMAI , (meaning lay hold on someone for help.. for instance,lay hold on drowning man to rescue him..)
The WAYO Desperado change am to "Take upon oneself".

@ Hebrews 8:9,What did Yahweh take hold of to set Israelites free?

the WAYO Desperado dey give angels flesh wey them no get ?
The Screenshots EXPOSED Your WAYO

You're simply a hopeless case of denial. I'm not the one who will suffer to teach you simple English. If you don't want to know the meaning of the word "epilambanomai", "epi" meaning "on" and "lambanomai" meaning "take", together meaning epilambanomai - "take on", then remain in denial. All the readers have seen your daylight robbery.

Why hiding your scriptures, if not your fraud.
Heb8:9:...when I "epilambanomai" them by the hand meant ...when I "took" them by the hand
You desperate learner, Janosky, epilambanomai always means "take/take on"
Here in Heb 2:16, it once again means "take" and the "taking" here refers to the flesh of angels and humans. Now read again and learn

You know nada about how to read the bible. Sheesh! Learner! Always waiting for me to spoon-feed you.
Learn not to go looking for translations to suit your fraud. Always go to the greek and get the original. Smh.

The word wrongly translated "help" here is "epilambanomai", a compound word which only means to "take upon oneself" occurs 20 times in the NT. No single time was it translated "help" but always "take on/ take" (E.g. Acts 9:27, Hebrews 8:9). So trying to use your versions of choice here is daylight robbery. LMAO.

Also, learner Janosky, learn to look at the context of verses to get the meaning the author intended.
Now read this slowly again and stop robbing your poor soul.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil
Heb 2:16 Because doubtless he did not take the angels'(meaning angel's flesh from the context); but he took the seed of Abraham(Human flesh)

The point clearly being made is that he never took the flesh of angel's but of men. Sheesh!
Janosky, quit robbery while its early. Jesus was never and will never be an angel or take their flesh. Meanwhile, hide your face from me until you answer my three questions and don't make me bring them here. Now, begone learner before you make me have your time. ROFLMAO.


Cc:freshboi88, FlourishE30, NuclearReactor, Jung, Barristter07, chidifrank, Jozzy4, paltielx, rottennaija, achorladey, omokoginimi(because I saw someone trying to reorient you on the other thread), RussellRutherfo(welcome bro latest addition), kobojunkie

Don't make me have your time before when I have set, Janosky, before I bring my killer bullets out which I'm going to do very soon when I make you see the greater Godhead prerogatives that Jesus and the Father share.

Ohemababy:
Am here to learn

I wont lie I have made such mistake in the past until I realised that it really hurt my husband to have said anything of such. In my own case i said it in the presence of his relative and the housemaid. As if i spent any serious money sef o.

Since then he has stopped accepting gifts, birthday gifts contributions to the house or anything. Either he pays back immediately or outright returns it like he did the birthday gift.

I feel bad about this and never again would I openly talk about any contribution I made to anything whatsoever.
Besides financially speaking am no where near him.

I av come to learn that men cherish respect a lot. Even if you don't respect him privately. Where there are people around treat him like a king and see how he treats you also.

Aww! Ain't that cute. Seeing your broken heart, I wish I could help your hubby forgive you and forget if he hasn't already.
We all learn everyday afterall. What matters is what we do about our mistakes.
I'd advise you do this. Kneel before or romance your husband real good and let him know how much you deeply regret that wrong.
Lil secret: nothings breaks a normal man's ego like seeing his wife showing utmost submission and support and I don't mean taking advantage of you or abusing your human rights at that.
So do that and go on to tell all those relatives that were present that you've realised you do so little financially compared to what he does. Make it a point of duty to make them know how responsible and dutiful your husband is and how you are glad to have him until it sinks in their heads and displaces the former mindset you have them
Then tell your husband of the corrections you've made. If he's normal, he'll surely start accepting your gifts again and fall in love with you afresh.

Would love to hear your feedback.

bukatyne:
Apologize deeply and I am sure he would start accepting your gifts again.

It will be well.

Yep. som'n like that.

KNOWMORE56:
The summary of his posts is that Jesus is the true God.

And the summary of my posts is that Jesus is the true God.

As you see that all the places you took cover have been perforated by his fiery bullet (i.e the truth), you now turn in to me.

Moreover, I have never said Jesus is ANGEL MICHAEL.

Many times JWs cause two posters who agreed on the same topic to start arguing against themselves over non-essential.

Yep bro. That's their highly overused strategy when they know they got caught - to turn us against each other. It's really laughable. LMAO. I'm glad we're all aware. So let's wait for Janosky to come answer my three questions like a man and also attack my expo on their angel Michael fantasy. Like he can ever. LMAO.

UyaiIncomparabl:
Who can proffer a solution for me? I am totally tired! I usually cannot seem to have a goodnight's rest. If I am not in a pool of different species of large snakes, I am always on the run because one is always after me. Fortunately for me, I am never harmed by them.

Dream interpreters, and what have you. I need help. I have prayed countlessly but prayers don't seem to be working because the dreams usually resurface. I have suffered from this dilemma since I was 10. I really need help, please.

Someone made a sly comment of either being an "ogbanje" or a snake goddess but I can't still seem to wrap my head around such erroneous suggestion.

Before anyone believes and begins advising @OP. Read carefully the signature of this moniker. In case she changes it later, it says "I create sparks and controversies for fun". That somehow makes this OP seem intended for mere weekend fun @ our expense. I'm only alleging but there is every possibility @OP is bored and desperately in need of some attention hence this "spark" created.
So let all tread cautiously.

Meanwhile @OP if you're serious, I'd suggest you should man up and rather than run from them, ask these snakes in your dreams what they really want and why they're after you. They're in the best position to give you answers.

Would like to be updated too.

The Fed. govt. will still determine the price ultimately even if they privatise distribution except they privatise the whole sector from production and refining downwards.
There are many investors not only Dangote who would personally want to invest in refineries.
I sense a bogus "privatisation" where the only licensed private companies will be those doing some of the govt's fraudulent bidding.

Janosky:
Go and beg your Trinity friend,KNOWMORE56 to explain to you the PROOF Jesus Christ is the angel of Yahweh ( Joshua 5:13-14. 2Thes1:7-9.Is Jesus leading his Father's army, the Sons of his Father? Yes. >

Let us apply DrLiveLogic claims,thus:
DrLiveLogic was hidden in the loins (bosom/body) of his Father. When DrLiveLogic was born, he is the Father who born him...
(Compare Rev 3:5,12 and John 20:17, either Jesus Lied or DrLiveLogic is a LIAR. )
Issorite .

Let's address DrLiveLogic FRAUD of Hebrews 2:14, (it is actually Hebrews 2:16, not 2:14).

"Because without doubt he took not on him the nature of angels" FRAUD in the KJV. ;

Please examine the Screenshots thoroughly and CONFIRM the dummy he is selling to gullible sheeples..
WAYO DrLiveLogic

You know nada about how to read the bible. Sheesh! Learner! Always waiting for me to spoon-feed you.
Learn not to go looking for translations to suit your fraud. Always go to the greek and get the original. Smh.

The word wrongly translated "help" here is "epilambanomai", a compound word which only means to "take upon oneself" occurs 20 times in the NT. No single time was it translated "help" but always "take on/ take" (E.g. Acts 9:27, Hebrews 8:9). So trying to use your versions of choice here is daylight robbery. LMAO.

Also, learner Janosky, learn to look at the context of verses to get the meaning the author intended.
Now read this slowly again and stop robbing your poor soul.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil
Heb 2:16 Because doubtless he did not take on the angels'(meaning angel's flesh from the context); but he took on the seed of Abraham(Human flesh)

The point clearly being made is that he never took the flesh of angel's but of men. Sheesh!
Janosky, quit robbery while its early. Jesus was never and will never be an angel or take their flesh. Meanwhile, hide your face from me until you answer my three questions and don't make me bring them here. Now, begone learner before you make me have your time. ROFLMAO.


Cc:freshboi88, FlourishE30, NuclearReactor, Jung, Barristter07, chidifrank, Jozzy4, paltielx, rottennaija, achorladey, omokoginimi(because I saw someone trying to reorient you on the other thread), RussellRutherfo(welcome bro latest addition), kobojunkie

Jung:
Abeg sum this up with this question .


Jesus and God.

Are they separate distinct entities or the same person?

Shikena.

No plenty shalaye

Whenever the question becomes important enough to you, you can always find the truth with detailed proof here in my posts. Safe.

Janosky:
DrLiveLogic is confused, ask am if the Father of DrLiveLogic is also his son,DrLiveLogic wey dey Nairaland

Shame on you bro. Go answer my three questions. Then ask me to explain the limitless possibilities of God which your human mind cannot conceive.