₦airaland Forum

Ken4Christ:
...All these scriptures speak for themselves. It will only take a dishonest person to still argue that the law has not ended. Just as we have crooks in the society, we also have spiritual crooks in the church who will twist the scriptures to their own destruction.

Twice have i answered today and I even predicted that you would move again and now you confirm it.

If you love your soul you better wittdraw your book and issue a warning notifying everyone that you made it in error. For you are not a lawyer therefore you erred in going beyond yourself to interprete Paul's legal writngs even though you are not a lawyer and even defying Peters Warning that Paul's writing can only be understood by lawyers.

As i.said, its your life and death.

Wilgrea7:
selectively quoting me and cutting out the part where I clearly said the arguments were flawed, and therefore inadequate doesn't help your case. [/quoted]

It is clear for all to see that you are lying when you say this for my post directly captures that. So this you just trying to say something since you have nothing to say.

[quote author=Wilgrea7 post=124943164]I listed reasons why the arguments fail as proof of a god. If you disagree, then you can state your points/reasons. Otherwise we can end this pointless back and forth of fallacy listing. It's quite tiring and unproductive.

And I have replied and pointed out that all your disputings are based on the fact that you commited the Moving the Goalpost falllacy.

See the fallacy you commit.
Logical fallacy
Moving the goalposts is an informal fallacy in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. That is, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
Moving the goalposts - Wikipedia fallacy of Moving the Goalpost falllacy.

So Christians stand while you fall! Its as simple as that.

Wilgrea7:
I'll try to break it down for you again.

Some arguments were presented as proof of a god...

Ehen!

This is what I have been trying to get
you to understand which you have been denying, hence my challenge.

A proper argument is always accompanied with its supporting proof. Where an argument is given with no proof, that is the first place an opponent should/must attack like I have done to bobestman who has given an argument with no proof and I have asked for his proof in support of his argument twice but and at the first request, he covertly insulted me without giving the proof demanded which compelled me to ask a second time, shown below

Re: JESUS CAME TO FULFILL MOSES LAW GIVEN BY GOD by Dtruthspeaker: 10:46am
bobestman:
Even a baby will answer you that is why i ignored you. The messiah came to correct the wrong things the ppl do in the sense that day are keeping the law. These things had been even since the OT days. The messiah keep correcting them. See Matt 5-7. I won't tell you cos this is very simple. You just want to find sth to argue

Then be the baby who answers the question if indeed it is True, for i did not what the Messiah came to do. This is off point.

I asked "which wrongs was in The Law" since you said "there are many wrongs in The Law? So, show some proof, of some of the many wrong Laws if in Truth you have them.
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Wilgrea7:
I pointed out that the arguments were flawed, and listed the reasons why they could not suffice as evidence for a god.

So, now that you have accepted that proof was given, then now you can appreciate my counter and objection that you commited the fallacy of Moving the Goalpost falllacy.

See the fallacy you commit.
Logical fallacy
Moving the goalposts is an informal fallacy in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. That is, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
Moving the goalposts - Wikipedia fallacy of Moving the Goalpost falllacy.

Thus, it is not that Christians did not score the goal of giving the proof of God but rather that you moved the post after they scored and when you saw that they were scoring.

Therefore, there is no flaw or error in there answer rather it is you who did the wrong by moving the goal post.

bobestman:
Even a baby will answer you that is why i ignored you. The messiah came to correct the wrong things the ppl do in the sense that day are keeping the law. These things had been even since the OT days. The messiah keep correcting them. See Matt 5-7. I won't tell you cos this is very simple. You just want to find sth to argue

Then be the baby who answers the question if indeed it is True, for i did not ask what the Messiah came to do. This is off point.

I asked "which wrongs was in The Law" since you said "there are many wrongs in The Law? So, show some proof, of some of the many wrong Laws if in Truth you have them.

bobestman:
My truth hurt churchians. That is what truth does. I tell you what is hidden from you. Your bible was copied from some ancient books. So it has errors, contradictions, allegory etc. symbolic. r

So answer my question "which wrongs was in The Law" since you said "there are many wrongs in The Law?

Ken4Christ:
What is the verse below saying?

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the END OF THE LAW for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I told you back then that, it means."THE DESTINATION/PURPOSE OF THE LAW". I told you then that Paul was a laeyer and his writings are "A legal View and analysis of the acts of.Jesus Christ in the Eye of The Law". This how the topic would have been framed on Channels Tv if he could have been interviewed by them.

I told you all this and i am tired of your stubbornness and endless moving argument. First, it was Ephesians, i.answered then you moved to Romans, i have again answered. Then you will move again to Galatians or another Romans ... i have done alll these before about 3 times and I am tired. So please let me be.

Wilgrea7:
Again. I completely understand you. But the statement you've made adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

Let me play your game a little. Proof of a god is the destination. You've still not given proof.

If we have not given you proofs how then can you say that our argument is terrible when you did not see it?

jpmoriarti:
So your God is all powerful but he allowed Satan to corrupt everything he created?

Speaks alot about this all powerful God

Only poor weak people think that fighting to protect their possessions is the only way.

Shows how small your mind is.

Hanndye:
Typo error, please. The the question is: How would Jesus say He was going to build what had already been built in Exidus 40.

Did you not hear that it was destroyed? And that Jesus said He would raise up a temple (Himself) to be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth?

It is like you are a Muslim, hence these nonsense questions. Churchgoers even know these things.

AntiChristian:
Where's the verse Jesus went to church on Sabbath, danced, clapped, sang and climbed the pulpit to preach?

Christian liar!

I said temple, not church, lying satanfilled Muslim. And in the temple, they danced, clapped, sang and worshipped God and preached.

FRANCISTOWN:
Call me when your god arrives. For now, I'm busy

I don't have to, your agonizing wail will let everyone know He has Come!

Wilgrea7:
Try to follow me here.

1) I opened a thread explaining why several arguments don't work in proving the existence of a god as it is understood.

2) You respond with some arbitrary statement that god is the destination, which has no bearing on the topic I was discussing

1. I am following you and you have said it above that this issues is because of the proofs of God, given by us.

2. How is it that you can not understand that proof of God, is the destination since you are asking for what proofs, prove God's existence?

paxonel:
there is nothing in these scriptures to show that if we keep to these things, then we have salvation or justication into eternal life. Rather, the scriptures are only encouraging us to keep these laws which are very good.

This is not True. The scriptures say "imitate Christ or walk as He did or walk His steps" not keep these laws as you are changing it into.

The salvation and eternal life is "since Christ was raised to life, so shall we be raised to life" Romans 6:4,5 and 23
....that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

[23]....but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 14;6.

Hanndye:
How would Just says He was going to build what had already been built?

Your question is not clear o.

Hanndye:
God's and His dear Son, Jesus Christ's.

Then, if it this church you are looking, in my opinion thier's started in Exidus 40 when the Temple of God and His priests were consecrated and they could carry out their charge as Commanded by God

paxonel:
do you have any scripture with a comprehensive explanation in support of this?

Because, on the contrary
Scriptures affirms that we are saved by Grace through faith and not by works.

And you know that being christ-like is simply works.
Only that it is a good works and it isn't bad.

Ephesians 5:1-2
5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.

2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us.

1 John 2:6
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 Peter 2:21
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

This is the grace and power we have been given.

Stubborn82:
Read from top to the end sir, you will get the message clear

I stand corrected my brother. It is perfect and accurate.

Stubborn82:
The issues of tithing is generating lots of controversy among the Christians of now adays, while some think it is good to pay tithe, some think

Did you see Him earn that He should pay tithe?

Did you not see that He queried the payment of tax?

And it is not a controversy among Christians but among churchgoers and atheists.

AntiChristian:
Jesus founded no church!

He didn't dictate the New Testament!

He didn't attend church on Sundays or Saturdays!

He didn't worship with songs plus dance and musical instruments!

Na someone else created Christianity and the church!

We go gist us the truth now?

Mr. Muslim abeg stay your house.

Jesus went to temple on Saturday/Sabbath days. Worship and songs and preaching/teaching take place in the temple and if you were not a Muslim you would have known that

Hanndye:
Jesus says in Matthew 16:18. 'And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.'

What is your take on this verse? What is the Church? Was it ever established and, if so, where is it today?

First question is whose church? Is it God's or Satan's or men?

bobestman:
If Enmity in the law is the wrongs in the law. Their were many wrongs in the law he came to correct cos during his days and even in the OT times the law was mixed with traditions of men. ...l

Which wrongs was in The Law?

joxxy01:
This is a questions that has been bothering me for quite some times now and yet to get any satisfying answer... According to Apostle Paul in (1 Corinthians 14: 1- 19) tonguing should be done privately except they is someone to interpret.. But in our present day Church gatherings , members can blow in tongues for hours without any one to interpret and it as taught by Paul and it has become a norm. Please I need and enlightenment is this not abnormal?

Proof that they are not of God!

GreatAchiever1:
True.
They don't fear Him because they don't know Him. Hearts are still in the dark like I said, the best is to intercede for them.
As it was done when Stephen was about to be stoned in Acts 7:60; and also in Romans 10:1 that is like a prayer to the unsaved.

All of them have said that they know Him and yet they will not stop attacking Him and that is the difference. A blasphemer can never be saved which is why God used them as one of the signs that He is coming!

chatinent:
You've not really drawn me to anything factual. I ask again, why will the heavens be washed? Was there sin in it like the earth?

I have and you have seen it that heaven and earth work together, which is why Christ even Said "i have shown you earthly things and you did not understand, is it now heavenly ones you will?"

You have no thing sir.

So i simply stand on the fact that it is very understandable, even if you are not able to understand why God wipes out this heaven and earth to replace them with another one. Its as simple as that

GreatAchiever1:
Their hearts are still in the dark, the best is to pray for them, we were no better, there are also those who did worse than them before the Lord called them even if you don't know anyone it happened to, you can agree on the case of Saul that later became a huge proponent in spreading the gospel of Christ in the first century.

That is the difference. Saul thought he was working for God when he was doing the wrong until he got corrected. But these ones know that they are sinning against God but yet they go on without fear of Him, even though they have been warned and corrected.

Wilgrea7:
No I did not. The thread where I asked theists to prove their god is different. And you all seemed to shy away from it.

The purpose of this thread was to show why certain arguments don't work in favor of a god.

Now you are lying and denying that you are not and have not been looking for the proof of God whereas you have just said it above that this thread is even about your objections the proofs of God, given. Yet you deny it. The very definition of dishonesty.

Wilgrea7:
The title of the thread clearly says "terrible arguments for the existence of god" and not "proof for the existence of god"

When people are arguing for the existence/nonexistence of a thing do they not give proof of that thing?

How can you not know that when people argue, they must give proof? Are you still a child to not know? Is that why you are being dishonest in lying and denying? Please grow up o. It is not easy for adults to argue with children.

Wilgrea7:
You like accusing people of shifting the goalpost, meanwhile you're the one who invents an arbitrary criteria, and then criticizes people for not following the arbitrary criteria you invented.

As you have seen it is fallacious and invalid to shift the goal post in an argument, as you have done. Stop it.

Thus, it is clear that you are wrong to be shifting the post whenever Christians score or about to score and that you lie when you say that you do not see the logical line whereas you have just addressed the logic of the line. See how dishonest you are?

SanctifiedSista:
if they get nothing? So sad for you

As sad for them as many of them have confessed before they became atheists.

chatinent:
Die, how? Was heaven unclean before?

In Noah's day, when God said he'll destroy the earth, he meant the evil in the earth. How is it any different from what will happen?

Noah should tell you that if the earth was washed anew, then heaven got its own washing too. But this is beside the point which i have drawn you to see that heaven and earth work together and that God has Said He would dispose of this ones to give us a new ones.

chatinent:
Why will heaven be upgraded when the sin only happens on earth?

Go check it. Heaven and earth are twins which is why Christ Said "whatever is boun/ loosed on earth is bound/loosed in heaven". Thus, whatever is done on earth is done in heaven and man has corrupted the earth with sin as you have said, thus, heaven is corrupted also.

Therefore, to have a clean slate both must die and a fresh shiny clean one, remade.

paxonel:
your answer that a Christian is mere christ-like has defeated the main purpose of Christianity which is salvation as christlikeness or whatever, does not equate to salvation.

It does not for Christianity means Christ likeness and to become like Christ means to be saved hence salvation.

And that God Most High has gave us the grace and power and gift and example of Christ for us to be like Him, hence our salvation.

Thus, the bible is about being like Christ, if other counsels are not enough.

paxonel:
But that doesn't mean they are saved simply because they changed from their wrong doing
Hence, the reason why i asked the question, at what time do we start having Christians?

Change from doing wrong is the beginning of the road to salvation. Change from doing wrong is the A,.B,C, to the X,Y,Z of being saved.

Which is why I changed your question and answered "When you are "like Christ" and your world, whether muslim o or atheists o or churchgoer o, will definitely change. And All the things that you are used to will truly pass and you will be in a new world you never knew and then you are start knowing God's plans and God's Mind. This is the S,T,U,V W,X, Y, Z part

To be christ like means one who does no wrong.

paxonel:
see this one, why cares about pastors?

You are finding it difficult to distinguish between a Christian and a non Christian why will you not say this confused statement?

The op also made the same confusion up there that's why he can't answer my question.

And you want to help him answer but you end up mixing up in confusion

I thought you were the pastor Chrisian who used to post pastor chris said messages here. But no wahala.

Workch:
they will be singing, dancing and worship a narcissist for life

We already sing and dance and worship here with our bellies full with food and drink and satisfaction from work being always successfully done and very profitable.

So the major difference is that all evils like you, theives, cheats, murderers etc will not be there.

O how sweet that is to travel with no visa, to be accomodated in lovely homes (no LovePeddler-tells), making sweet friends along the way, no hospitals, no old age and death so we always have our loved ones permanently with us.

Food and drink boku boku, no war, no famine, no disaster... o how very sweet that world is.

Ehen nothing like "i dey find work!"

chatinent:
Those who go to heaven will do what there?

I said it. That we are not going to heaven but to new upgraded heaven and earth 2.0 to continue normal living without satan and his evil and evil his seeds.