₦airaland Forum

etrange:
Lol @estate. I assume you you meant property in general.

Still the same story. The inheritance system you described, just like the labelling/tagging itself, is for people stuck in the archaic ways of life. Today, anybody (even strangers) can inherit anything from anyone provided a will is written. Even the Igbo traditions can't stand in the way of that. Gone are the days when kinsmen gather to distribute a dead person's wealth however they want (except the dead himself wasn't educated enough to know he needed a will or even rich enough to get a lawyer).

Traditions are good but they should be sustainable and progressive. Otherwise, it becomes a clog in the wheel.

This is the enlightenment and the Law, Everything that is Good, Lasts Eternally or is supposed to last eternally.

So also Good Traditions Last Forever but there are also Bad Practices among the people and in Nigeria, those who suffer from these evil practices do not often properly resist them but they even rather submit themselves to it, then they come to complain about it everywhere and even disturb us with it, but they never do anything about it.

mysticwarrior:
by law the child is a bastard.

No, he is not a bastard under Law, but it is you who is calling him a bastard and who desires for him to be so, called.

etrange:
@ bolded: Nobody was born with a tag. The tag is whatever you and I put on them. And the person you quoted is saying we should stop these tagging. If you agree with me that nobody deserves to be discriminated based on circumstances surrounding their birth, then you must also agree the tagging should be done away with. It simply doesn't make sense.

@OP: Asking if a child should be "legitimate" after the parents eventually get married is ridiculous. People who answer no are even funnier. The question is, who changes the status? Where is it changed? Is there a paper work?

Let's collectively say no to social discrimination!

Sweet words, I am with You

Unnerve:
I get both of you.
It does seem like a contradiction and an irony, but drawing attention to the existence of illegitimacy does not denote "recognition" of it.

An illegitimate child is simply an English phrase meant to identify a person born to unmarried parents when contrasted with one (legitimate) who was born to married parents. It's a description, not an identity.

Do not fall for what they taught you there. That is the Lie.

All who said that shit thereafter stole the properties which they said "is just for description purposes". Those are same persons who became lords of manors, farms and other businesses while the True Heir passed away in poverty and in want.

Unnerve:
Where it gets tricky and the reason why the debate is strong among Nigerians is that the country is governed by multiple laws at multiple levels with many Nigerians switching allegiance & interpretation depending on the subject matter.

For instance, most customary laws remain very clear on illegitimacy and will not recognize a child born by such despite what common law dictates. There are also customary practices that tag a child born to a married woman outside her marriage as a bastard, but that born to a man by another woman besides his wife is not a bastard. There is also the very muddy water of inheritance, like where should an illegitimate child claim his/her inheritance, from the mother or from the father, etc.

In general and since the most important set of laws Nigeria abides by are those put forward and/or amended in the constitution, it is fair to say then that illegitimacy is simply not recognizable.

What is right and good is always clear but Nigerians are very lazy and weak in fighting for their rights and defending it.

Our people like things being given to them, even when it is theirs, rather than taking it.

bukatyne:
I am not arguing the inheritance, I posted Nigerian laws on it.

Can an illegitimate child inherit? YES. (Dependent on the laws of the land).

Are illegitimate children stigmatized? In most places NO.

Does it change the fact children out of wedlock are illegitimate? NOPE!

I like your homosexual example: the fact homosexuality is mainstream, accepted and funky even doesn't change the fact they are homosexuals.

"Can an illegitimate child inherit? YES. (Dependent on the laws of the land)." He ought to after many Good Considerations.

"Does it change the fact children out of wedlock are illegitimate? NOPE!" (Wrong) This is not a Lawful Fact but a social designation and description, which itself is not founded on Good but for the purpose of stealing the property belonging to another and disenfranchising the proper person or persons.

mysticwarrior:
A child that was given birth to as a bastard will always remain a bastard.

To his mother, he is not.

And to his father, he is bound to the child to the child, Unless

eyinjuege:
You have just compared a scientific physiological process of pregnancy to a social construct of illegitimacy.
Apples and oranges.
Culture is forever changing, and crimes that were the norm in those days are legal this day and vice versa. E.g Europeans have once in their history married legitimately 14 year olds and younger. Homosexuality used to be a crime in their countries but it is now legitimized in same countries
Children born out of wedlock weren't allowed to inherit in same countries, but that is no longer the case now.

Evil and wickedness should not be allowed to grow anywhere, it is just because people today are more gullible than before that many of these things as you said have found a place to sit.

coputa:
But they still accept and practice it till date.

Because people do not properly challenge it or resist it.

It is always said that evil thrives because people let it, by doing nothing!

Or they start to fight when they are at their weakest and the damage, already done.

Fountainofyouth:
You contradicted yourself here, there is no difference in inheritance, but it is stated that there is what we call illegitimate child in the Nigerian law because it is obviously recognised.


And for all of you saying illegitimate child and bastard is offensive, it won't change the fact that it is an English word with meaning, and the fact that people use it as an insult doesnt make it untrue, but then, denial is allowed.

You do not know that the word bastard and illegitimate is born out of wickedness and Fraud, so as to disentitle and dispossess the proper and right person from taking that which belongs to him, so that liars and thieves can sneakily and properly steal the property belonging to another, that is why some of us hate it and always fight it.

coputa:
The Nigeria law recognises the legitimate and the illegitimate child.In section 42(2) of the 1999 nigeria constitution(as amended) conferred equal inheritance rights on the legitimate and illegitimate child, a distinction without any legal consequencies.The Igbo native law and custom which deprives children born out of wedlock from sharing/benefit of their father's estate is conflicting with section 42(2) of the 1999 constitution of the federal republic of nigeria(as amended)

The Igbo law of wickedness should always be challenged and resisted

MrBrownJay1:
if the child is underage, YES the father has all the rights to have visitation/shared custody if he meets the proper requirements (and possibly vacation) with the child, until that child is 18yrs old. whether the child's mother got remarried and/or the biological father refused to acknowledge the child in the past, is irrelevant to the paternity of that said child... anybody can change.

the biological father CANNOT demand for the child's name to be changed, unless he is the child's legal guardian... and even if you are, at 18 that same child can remove your surname from his own name.

I think the biological father only has a right to attempt to have a relationship with the child but the true Decision rests with the child.

Ladyhippolyta88:
Who calls someone illegitimate in today's times?some persons don't even know who a legitimate or illegitimate child is unless they are told.
Even the word bastard is now obsolete.

I agree that the word "Illegitimate parents" is better because I see no reason why a child should get discriminated or insulted for something he/she had no control over

You are right that no child should be disinherited from his true parents possessions, simply because of lack of marriage or other unfounded grounds, but it is not sufficiently challenged in this country, hence wickedness prevails.

bukatyne:
First paragraph: you need to confirm outside Nigeria

2nd: it is not is discriminatory to call a child illegitimate if he/she is. Some children are named on the circumstances of their birth: Twins, Triples, etc etc. which nobody thinks discriminatory.

The only issue is inheritance which Nigerian law seems to take care of: the parents get married or the father acknowledges the child (for customary law).

Or the parent writes a will.

I don't know if the legitimate children can contest a will because it gives something to illegitimate children sha.

Every child can contest a will but it must go to sound Good Judgement.

bukatyne:


As for the concerns raised in the OP, read the following:
https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/inheritance-rights-for-legitimate-and-illegitimate-children-47186
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_(family_law)
https://www.naijalegaltalkng.com/illegitimacy-and-the-right-of-inheritance/

So in Nigeria, an illegitimate child becomes legitimate if:
1. Parents become married (legitimization)
2. If the father acknowledges the child (only in customary law. Interestingly more lenient than statutory)

Concept of illegitimacy to the father but Always legitimate to the mother.

coputa:
An illegimate child is one born to parents who are not married to each other at the time of the child birth,will that child be considered legitimate,after they latter got married.

The child becomes legitimate because marriage ratifies all.

In fact the child is still legitimate because both parents accept him as such, whether married or not.

It is because of unchallenged Fraud, that we even have these wicked legitimacy shit laws

butterfly777:
That is why I said ask IN faith. Faith us the principle of the word of God. So, I mean ask in line with the word of God.

Yes I know, I was just respectfully adding that faith is more than a word repeated constantly, it is Knowings or Knowledges Founded and Grounded on all you Know and can Know About God, His Works and His Ways!

butterfly777:
Those he chooses to have mercy on are those who ASK for mercy Mercy us available for all. Just ask in faith.

You mean ask for Mercy Knowing that you sin, and Knowing that the Many-yer your sins, the more, you shall Beg for Forgiveness and Mercy.

And when you are forgiven, na you go happy pass. Luke 7:36-48

IMAliyu:
Ah ok.
I was trying not to fall into the issue of 'moral relativism' here, which is when someone says that "the definition of good and bad is based on a person's culture."
And to make the point that what is good and bad can cut across all cultures and it's origin is inherent in our very nature.
And that when you examine what we consider to normally be beneficial and good in day to day life, you would see that it is what helps satisfy our very nature as living things (it is what helps prolongs our life, it is what makes life better for our children, it is what helps reduce suffering in the world) directly or indirectly.
And I would add it's the reason why anyone can usually easily tell that something is good or bad normally most of the time, without doing any long thinking, because it is instinct.

I hope I did not add more confusion.

No problem.

whuuuw! I think you did but I could attempt sorting what you meant.

1) good is individually subjective, you rejected this.

2) good and bad is familiar to everyone, from every culture.

3) good satisfies our natural living, prolongs life, Improves the lives of children and reduces suffering.

4) everyone can immediately determine that which is good or bad, without difficulty.

Can I conclude that this is what you were saying up there?

That is the power of the True Worship Done in Truth and spirit, whom ye are, The Holy Spirit Leads and you follow!

You can never go wrong that way!

IMAliyu:
I would personally argue that good is a mode of being, mindset and set of actions that are beneficial to the individual, not only that, but beneficial to those around him, which extends to his community at large and arguably to the whole of humanity. Or at the very least is not actively detrimental to any other person.
"Let one walk alone, committing no sin, with few wishes, like elephants in the forest." (Based on a Buddhist poem) Mamoru Oshii (GITS Innocence

Interesting definition, but it still captures what I think good is and should be.

IMAliyu:
Now what is the meaning of the word beneficial used here?
Since we are living creates and the primary characteristic of living things is to survive and to pass on it's information in the form of genes(reproduction) and memes(no not internet memes, more like acquired and accumulated wisdom, knowledge, ideas, skills that kind thing) directly or indirectly. So therefore the meaning of beneficial in this case would be from the biological perspective so, anything which does not interfere with people's ability and choice to do these things and which actively supports it. (In more simpler words, that which does interfere with any individual's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness and does not come at a cost to another.)

I am lost here, please bear with me, am I interpreting rightly to say that you mean Beneficial means Biological Transfer, hereditary phenomenon, handed down from generation to generation etc and not the Naturally Popular Meaning which means "gainful, profitable, a welcomed increase, additional, Jara?

IMAliyu:
Using my explanation a salary of N620k is good, because it would mean you can get your essential (survival) needs in life covered (food, water, medicine, shelter) and be able to even help others (family, friends, charity) and pursuit what can make you happy.
And another man having sex with your wife/girlfriend is subject to interpretation based on the condition, but I'm assuming you mean your woman cheats on you with another man, which would be bad because it's a breach of trust and betrayal on her part, which would cause a whole bunch detrimental things that would take me too long to explain why it's bad at the moment.

My apologies! I have deferred comment on this part of the post for later because it is needful that I fully appreciate and comprehend your view before I answer, lest, my answer may cause some unintended offence to you.

BackllGodNaija:
You have every right to do so, however I believe if you truly have the interest of God at heart you ought to have a rethink, because we can't possibly know better than the Master. If the open portrayal of uncertainty and one's limited knowledge wasn't comforting at all to anyone or doesn't inspires any form of confidence as you think, I believe Jesus would be the last to do so. This was someone whose disciples had invested all their lives, hopes and everything they got in believing He knew everything and was a sure bet. But here He was helplessly hanging on the cross right before their very eyes...as if that was not already bad enough, now asking God why He had forsaken Him?

You approved of their consequent fearlessness and confidence...it would be contradictory to at the same time disapprove of such experiences and examples of the Master that inspired such in them. They definitely went through similar trying and uncertain moments in their lives but knowing that their Master had gone through similar experiences would have been most comforting to them, because if that could happen to their highly esteemed Master, how much more they His servants? That I believe was what strengthened their resolve in spite of such uncertainties and difficulties they faced, because they had learnt from their Master, that "God is still God regardless and He's never made a mistake", which happens to be the objective of this message.

Oh, you really think valid, your probe,

"Lord openly exhibiting the limitations of His knowledge before His disciples when He asked God in the glaring eyes of the public why He had forsaken Him....Do you think it was unwise of Him to do so? "

Ok! I answer

How is it possible that this statement is a declaration of "limited knowledge" rather than an outspoken private conversation between Father and Son?

Did Christ not express tell us that He Came to Do the Will of His Father?

Therefore, what gain or benefit did Christ fail to give us in saying this or is there anything we ought to receive that the Lord witheld? No, not one, for the Lord, gave us Everything we need.

He clearly said "I would Tell You so" or would he lie to his Disciples, who themselves have taught us all He taught them?

And that statement is not one of the teachings taught, for if it indeed, had any gain or importance, I Trust That the Lord, when He Resurrected, would have told us so or his Disciples would have taught us so or it would have of itself, been restated and restated for us to take due attention of it.

But the Lord did not, neither did His Disciples nor does the Bible, anywhere, counsel us to pay particular attention to that detail.

Everything God wanted us to know, He Always Clearly Told us Again and again and again.

And my position is further founded on how our Lord God Taught us in Always Saying "which one of you"".

So I always say which one of me would willingly lay his life on the table of medical student for even a simple surgery? No not one. We would go to a certified surgeon.

Or which one of you having matter in court shall say to a law student, "come and fight for me, for lo, I am brought before the judge". No, not one.

So it is for everything in the kingdom of God!

Knowings and Understandings Always brings Boldness and Confidence.

Which is Paul said

Ephesians 3
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him

Which when Complete causes one to Confidently declare,

"So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me." Hebrews 13:6

OKOATA:
Isiah 45-7
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.
That answers your question but aside natural disasters etc man also contributes to the evil of this world, the person who created gun did that for hunting before man became evil with it, men created bombs, art of warfare etc and its not right to blame God for that. God and man has the same character since we are created in his image and likeness so we should stop blaming God for everything.

Please no, it does not, for I was trying to specifically ascertain, what he would consider to be good, or that, which he would say is bad, as a standard of measurement of what would be good or bad in the scenarios I presented.

BackllGodNaija:
Okay kindly explain to me what you think of Jesus who is Master and Lord openly exhibiting the limitations of His knowledge before His disciples when He asked God in the glaring eyes of the public why He had forsaken Him....Do you think it was unwise of Him to do so? When I said this orientation has been of tremendous help to me and many others, it also included His disciples who made it possible for us to have His gospel today, because such example of Jesus was what gave them the confidence and motivation to achieve that in spite of all the trials, persecutions they faced even to the point of death. And that's the example I'm trying to emulate to achieve likewise but you seem to think otherwise.

I honestly do think otherwise.

For without knowledge and understanding, we continue to walk in fear and in uncertainty and never in Confidence and Boldness.

For look at all who follow the Lord, Not One was ever afraid nor could there confidence be shaken at anytime by anyone high or low, Pharisee or scribe.

Why? Because they were Full of Knowledge and Understanding coupled with the Power of the Holy Spirit.

Holy Spirit fell on those who accepted the Words of Christ, But, they still needed to grow in Knowledge and Understanding, hence the Reason why We Have what is Called the New Testament.

Thus, 2 Timothy 1:7

" For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind".

David in Proverbs 2 tells us

My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;

2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;

3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;

4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;

5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.

6 For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.

8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.

9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.

Proverbs 3:13-18
"Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.

14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.

15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.

16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.

17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.

18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.

These are my grounds of my Stand for I do Verily Stand as A Witness to the live Truths of these Clear Holy and Wonderful Words.

BackllGodNaija:
Okay thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's quite surprising though that you don't find that comforting because that orientation has been of tremendous help to me and many others including some here, hence my sharing. Nonetheless I respect your thoughts.

I appreciate your response and understanding but there is one big Word of the Lord that I hold before my eyes which is "My people perish, for lack of understanding".

I have seen what lack of understanding has done to people, and of course, I was one of them. And I Greatly Fear it.

But when I considered the ways of the Righteous and the Wise, I Found that indeed, they had Many Many Understandings.

And meanwhile, Nobody can buy Understanding in market, nor can they fashion a Good One.

And this is where I Greatly Thank God for giving us King David, who was able to Capture all that Abraham, Jacob and Moses knew and mixed with his own personal knowledge, he gave unto us the Gifts of the Proverbs and Psalms.

Which Clearly told me that Understanding, is Given By the Lord Himself. And He Shows us the various ways we can obtain the Understanding that Comes from the Lord.

So, as Paul and the Disciples have Truly said, I can walk Confidently and Surely Always, as the things which we do everyday, without Fear or Failure.

This is what I humbly share and advocate for.

Kobojunkie:
Have you not read the book of Hebrews? Paul's letter where He asserts that God in fact madw the plan from before the beginning?

Yes, Hebrews Chapter 5 all the way to Chapter 9 (just needed to know specifically which one you had in mind)

And Chapter 5 commenced from Chapter 4:14, That, Jesus, The Son of God, is Also A High Priest unto us, Just as it was Commanded in Exodus 25:1-9; Exodus 40:12-16.

So what is the problem here?

Kobojunkie:
God regretted giving man free will? So why He prepare Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, from even before He made man?

Please, point me to this scripture

GRIMMJOE:
You won't get an answer, God isn't real.

I answered! And God is Real!

hayoholla:
Ok,so let's pretend you are not assuming. But god giving man's freewill? Does god not know what freewill is, by dashing man's so freely. He should know the consequences na or shouldn't he, why should he then feel remorse afterwards? It may be likened to me giving a child a matchbox in poorly lit room, he might end up setting up the house on fire, if he's too careless or doesn't know how to use a matchbox prior to me giving him one, or he might light choose to put up light to illuminate the room. I hope you get the analogy.

Lemme throw this question at you. Which will you prefer? a balanced system or a perfect system, as a designer.

Your Reasoning is exactly why it is Commonly Said, "Great Risks, Great Rewards."

But what they did not say is "Great Risks, Greater Pain", if Failure Arises.

The same way He would have Shouted "Whoow! That's my boy" is still the same way He shall have to say "Kai, you have brought me great shame, disgrace and embarrassment, such that I regret being identified with you".

Just as the body is balanced with the left and right leg, and left and right hands, so also, did He Place Himself in such a predicament.

hayoholla:
You are still assuming bro! Anyways let's leave that at that. Do you really know what it means to say something is good? Does it means it's devoid errors to you? We need to start from knowing the definition of what good is? He saw it was good, meaning he self approved it, but his creation proved otherwise!

but because of what man had turned all the good work He did in the beginning to

Is Man not part of gods good works? Why are you contradicting yourself. I have told you to stop assuming!

I kindly ask, the food you cooked and tasted that it was sweet, then you served it at the party, and all declared it sweet.

Later, it is reported to you that your staff has ruined the Cooler Containing the food, which you cooked, would it be a Right, Fair and Just Judgement, to Say that the Food was not good, even though it was thereafter ruined?

Would you consider it a fair judgement if your employer says to the world, that because he fired you, You Never Worked in his Company?

Kobojunkie:
I believe the answer is a yes, for nothing can happen without His consent. Remember He is all-powerful and sovereign - nothing gets by Him.

Does that mean it is all His fault? No. It simply means He is the one at the switchboard, the super-admin, so to speak, authorizing that which is to occur.

For the Purpose of Bringing to us, even greater things which are more than the last good things we received from Him.

Kobojunkie:
He regretted giving man free will? Why didn't he simply take it back?

He can, but He did not wish to especially as He saw at Least One man, Noah, getting it Right, therefore His Desire to have a great good relationship with man was renewed.