₦airaland Forum

atheistandproud:
The first real organised religion on Earth was done by the Sumerians. The Sumerians worshipped Aliens called the Annunaki. It was the Annunaki called Enki that created man. Read up the Epic of Gilgamesh and you'll see a lot of borrowed stories from which Judaism and ultimately Christianity stole from.

Furthermore, Abram (Abraham) and Sarai (Sarah) were Sumerians. They hail from Ur of the Chaldeans, a Sumerian town. They worshipped Sumerian gods. When Abram left Sumer, he carried his religion along with him. He even gave tithe to a Sumerian high priest Melchizedek.

Lol.

So are you saying that in your village, there was no organised way of religion until after the Sumerians made religion?

Who came first, religion or people?

sonmvayina:
How can something that has no matter harm me, do you believe ghost can harm people, exactly how?

When you learnt that you could die by various means and ways, did you Truthfully restrict it to physical things alone, especially being a kid born in Nigeria?

sotall:
If you can open a thread and explain how the human senses can be used to verify any religion you know, I will gladly follow it. Its something of utmost interest to me

I have not raised any book here but advanced normal Nigerian living conditions, do want to take my Use of Senses Tests?

budaatum:
Elaborate.

I thought it was Sotall I was responding to, sorry my mistake

budaatum:
Not true sotall. Please return to responses you got to questions intelligently asked here and let me know if the truth is not that you read it in a human written book that God gave the instruction and you believe it.

If you use your senses, as suggested, you might arrive at a different opinion and understanding.

My Error

sotall:
If you can open a thread and explain how the human senses can be used to verify any religion you know, I will gladly follow it. Its something of utmost interest to me

That is what I was doing to Sonny until he did not want to participate anymore.

sotall:
Pls let's not derail this thread with discussing "the use of senses to scrutinize religion/christianity "

For no religion will survive that

Not my intention.

sotall:
Believing without the use of the senses is one of the attributes that drove me from christianity. For it doesn't make sense to use my senses to live rightly but christianity demands I shut my senses including my brain and thinking faculty which I find ridiculous.

As for discussing christianity and the bible, it's the only religion I have practiced and have good knowledge on. So that's why I always cite my examples from there when discussing religion.

As for moving on, it ain't an easy move to do. For something I have been involved in since childhood and even till my twenties, its gonna take more than a lifetime to cleanse myself from its indoctrination. I am making progress

You were wrongly Taught, for if you had read the Bible for yourself, indeed you would have seen the use of the senses all over the place.

budaatum:
If he says no Bible (and I pressume he means 'no god books' too), then he does not want to know. For where else does one begin knowing about gods if not from the god books?

The alternative is to learn from the god people who can only tell him what he should believe unless he knows how to recognise godly fruits and learn from those.

Another alternative is to show him his own life and living for him to analyse for himself through good reasoning, which he can therefore come to his own judgement of what is in front of him.

solite3:
The Knowledge of God can lead to Faith in him,the gospel gives knowledge of whom God really is

He says no Bible, so you have to use Natural daily living or something outside to the Bible to explain to him.

sotall:
Been following your answers. Care to tell us the who or those who reported about the dangerous person?

Also why you decided to listen and act on their report out of the many stories of dangerous things that cannot be seen but capable of killing?

Yes, I will, but right now my position on this issue is quite clear and obvious enough, so I am really not under examination but it is him who wishes to Know why I hold my position and the only way he can fully appreciate and comprehend it, is that I think it better for him to see it himself using his own natural world, not mine.

sonmvayina:
Yes oh, my house is fenced and I use iron gates too.. Who be the person.. I get my shakabula with two mouth...
Tell me who be the person..

Yes, you have taken care of the physical ones that you have seen like everyone else is doing, but now, it is Reported that This Dangerous Person Can not be seen, would you be concerned about a danger which you can not see?

sonmvayina:
So you tell me what you got from what they have said so far?.. I am waiting..

You said you wished to Know, now I am taking through the natural process of acquiring knowledge known to you but you fled from it, but now you are back.

I can show you if you want and it is you who would come to your own judgment for yourself but at anytime you do not wish to continue, just say the words and I would not continue.

budaatum:
Why do you ask? Is it because you want to know like they do?

They have responded, adequately, I must say, yet you sound like a high school grad asking a seasoned surgeon how to hold a scalpel, though I'm sure you know the many years of training you need to go through before you become a surgeon.

Good thread though, if you could stick to the premise of it, and try to understand the answers you get.

Thank you Budaatum, these words lift up the spirit.

sonmvayina:
Whaaaaaaat?

I don't watch nollywood movies.... Who be the person?

Ok!

I only said, if you heard or it is reported that there is a Dangerous Person Who Could kill you, would you look into it?

sonmvayina:
Yes.. I choose life..

Right!

Now, while you are still watching out for the things and persons that could kill you and while you avoided them all, it was finally Told You or Brought to your attention that There is One Great and Mighty Person, Who No One Can See, Who can Kill you, While you shall not be able to even hurt Him, is it not reasonable that you are going to Put Him in Your Watchlist?

sonmvayina:
I am following your line of thought.. Which I have always taught here too.

So how does believe in God come into the equation?

Good question.

It is settled then that you do not want to die.

Now, If you do not want to die, is it not reasonable to study as best as you can and identify as far as you can, those things and persons you have seen who can Kill you or cause you death or bring death to you?

sonmvayina:
Yes I would..

And this is the first lesson, for you have just done and admitted doing what in truth is a Be and Live.

For one, I am sure you can remember your own experience that Warned you and Taught You that if you do not breath you shall surely die, especially as a child, when one Idiot choked you in the name of play and you struggled for breath and you remember screaming "do you want to kill me?"

That experience is Your Be, for it gave you an information which you have just found out to be True.

And Your Live, began when you never ever played that strangling game again.

And this Be, Live, concluded your knowledge that you can die by strangling, or holding your breath, of your head is cut off like chickens and goats.

Hence Your Be, Live makes you avoid All Occasions that You Now know that can bring You Death.

Also, Your Be, Live has taught many other things which includes the truth also, that You Do Not Want To Die!

I'll wait for your queries here.

sonmvayina:
Yes I would.. It is common knowledge..

Thank you! Therefore, would it be correct to say that you then thereafter, avoid and avoided every occasion, which may result in the Chopping of your head?

sonmvayina:
Yes you have.. Believing in something does not necessarily mean that something is true... Hope you know that..

Bear with me and patronize me, if I cut your head would you die?

sonmvayina:
How did you know that the God you believe in is the right one...

Don't refer me to any book..

First of all that word Believe is in truth 2 words put together, which is Be and Live!

So, the Be! this normally starts with all that you have Seen and Experienced in your normal or abnormal daily living, which you yourself has seen to be true eg you can never walk through walls or if you do not swim you shall sink or if someone stops you from breathing, you know you shall die. Have I lost you?

sonmvayina:
Please share them with me..

It is too large to share, lets narrow it by you picking a specific interest, then I would tell you about it.

sonmvayina:
Can I know some of the things... That convinced you..

Not Some, All or at least very many things.

And not convinced but tested and hotly tried!

sonmvayina:
Lol... You got that from a book or personal experiences?

I am a scientist, so I went in whole and I did all he said that I must do and viola! It is as it is written.

sonmvayina:
So what knowledge do you have about God?

Many!

1) He is Very Great indeed!
2) He is Very Good indeed
3) He is Who He Says He is


I can go on and on!

joyandfaith:
And he can believe in fairytales of Atum and countless scientific gods created by otematum in his fiction called history. We are looking forward to see your fairytales being published online. Historian my foot!!!

You've said it all, one is Ridiculous, the other a Disciple, behaving and speaking like a true believer and follower, yet he says, he does no religion how laughable.

joyandfaith:
Following you.nice point

I am honoured, thank you!

OtemAtum:
. quote author=Dtruthspeaker post=91589770]

The Difference is Very Very Wide!

1). Stubborn, very stubborn children are always unruly, badly and wickedly behaved and there is no soul on earth who in Truth, does not wish them away from the kingdom of the living.

And if they can not live among the living, then they should live with the dead, maybe the dead would be happy to receive them and they can all continue there together in "that happiness".

Whilst the living continue in their own living happiness. Equation balance 1-1.

2) I have already addressed No 2 up in my response to you, so I skip to 3.

3) Did You not hear that our father, Abraham and his house was Cleansed and made Holy? And that it was our God's Plan to make the whole earth Holy and Good, as He Had first made it? So, if our house is Holy, how then shall we then Tolerate Any Speck of Unholiness?

No we shall not, and just like A Little Spit of Corona Virus, destroys the whole body, and no one would even allow the shadow of a Corona Virus Patient to even pass near their person, not to talk about their children, animals or land, so also is an unholy nation including all their possessions, lands, animals, everything is infested with their unholiness and they Must All Be Burnt like everything a Dead Corona Virus Patient has touched!

Same answer for Nos 4 and 5.

6) I do not even need to talk too much, Romance Section has done the talking for me. See how the Cheated, Verily Wants to Kill the Cheat and her or his partner or is it the news where couples have killed the ones they have caught, including themselves, the Lastma man case still they drip blood!

There is Always Always a Good Reason and Explanation For All of My God's Laws and every soul, Truly would have been happy if His Laws have been implemented.

Foolish Stubborn children would not exist as to make other foolish children to become clearly foolish. Therefore even foolish children could have lived foolishly without dying for their foolishness!

Every Holy Day we supposed to dey laugh, dance and Jam tire!

3, 4, and 5, No Disease and death in the land because Holiness and Long Good Life go Plenty!

6) Nobody go dey near our Babes and Bobos, our wives and our husbands and even our daughters go dey marry well well!

But una don spoil the Party Finish, so nothing for una!

I Rest here!

I don go sleep, till we meet again!



1. Lol, as if you can offer your very stubborn son to be killed even if he broke your laptop twice in a week.
2. Today is Saturday, how many people working will you kill?
3. You didn't answer the question. Most of the Indians don't worship your god, is it right to go and kill them and their animals?

Just like nodding a wall will never make the wall cry, so does repeating an answered question will not resuscitate it after its death!

So, I am gone!

OtemAtum:
Let's see which is worse between what your own god commands and what the muslim god command

1. Your god commanded that you should bring your stubborn son to the public to be stoned to death.
2. You should kill people who work on Saturdays.
3. They should kill all animals and human beings, including the children of other lands who didn't worship your god.
4. Commanded that Elijah should kill priests who worship other gods.
5. Kill people tagged witches and wizards.
6. Kill a woman who commits adultery.

And the long list continues...

Now compare with these killing for alcohol and tell me what difference you see.

These are the main reasons why religion is worse and it should be done away with.

The Difference is Very Very Wide!

1). Stubborn, very stubborn children are always unruly, badly and wickedly behaved and there is no soul on earth who in Truth, does not wish them away from the kingdom of the living.

And if they can not live among the living, then they should live with the dead, maybe the dead would be happy to receive them and they can all continue there together in "that happiness".

Whilst the living continue in their own living happiness. Equation balance 1-1.

2) I have already addressed No 2 up in my response to you, so I skip to 3.

3) Did You not hear that our father, Abraham and his house was Cleansed and made Holy? And that it was our God's Plan to make the whole earth Holy and Good, as He Had first made it? So, if our house is Holy, how then shall we then Tolerate Any Speck of Unholiness?

No we shall not, and just like A Little Spit of Corona Virus, destroys the whole body, and no one would even allow the shadow of a Corona Virus Patient to even pass near their person, not to talk about their children, animals or land, so also is an unholy nation including all their possessions, lands, animals, everything is infested with their unholiness and they Must All Be Burnt like everything a Dead Corona Virus Patient has touched!

Same answer for Nos 4 and 5.

6) I do not even need to talk too much, Romance Section has done the talking for me. See how the Cheated, Verily Wants to Kill the Cheat and her or his partner or is it the news where couples have killed the ones they have caught, including themselves, the Lastma man case still they drip blood!

There is Always Always a Good Reason and Explanation For All of My God's Laws and every soul, Truly would have been happy if His Laws have been implemented.

Foolish Stubborn children would not exist as to make other foolish children to become clearly foolish. Therefore even foolish children could have lived foolishly without dying for their foolishness!

Every Holy Day we supposed to dey laugh, dance and Jam tire!

3, 4, and 5, No Disease and death in the land because Holiness and Long Good Life go Plenty!

6) Nobody go dey near our Babes and Bobos, our wives and our husbands and even our daughters go dey marry well well!

But una don spoil the Party Finish, so nothing for una!

I Rest here!

I don go sleep, till we meet again!

OtemAtum:
Another lives just lost because of religion. Killed for taking alcohol. Dtruthspeaker will be happy to hear this, same way he was happy that people were killed for working on Saturdays.

I am clear what things I am happy about and I will always declare those things I am happy with and I do not know the reason why a person should be killed and can be killed for drinking alcohol, so prima facie, I Clearly say, in the absence of a good and reasonable Reason, and neither am I able to find one, I Do Say that this is not good but evil.

And my own God Never commanded that this kind of shit should be done.

gensteejay:
If you think you're making any sense here, you're not doing that in any way.

Just like I follow Otem on Nairaland, I also follow some atheists. That doesn't make me an atheist.

I follow a number of irreligious people on Nairaland. That doesn't mean I practise their particular philosophy.

I follow people on Nairaland with a working brain.

I have no problem with who you choose to follow or not follow but if you climb up on the stage, I am entitled to comment about what I see whether accurately or not, but fair comment is always allowed.

gensteejay:
I know all these already.

I've interacted with Otem for around 3 years now and don't have any reason to believe he seeks to create a new religion.

You're merely repeating things I know already.

Look up the various meanings of religion, one of them is to the effect "whatever you do consistently or with regularity or with a system, is a religion"

But I do not challenge any ones religion or irreligion (if it can be done), but I am entitled to fair reasonable Comment without Insults, if the circumstance allows it.

And that is what I have been doing here, I insulted no one, I ought not to be insulted, for I only excercised my right to fair and reasonable Comment on public forum, free of all insults and ridicule.