₦airaland Forum

Bacteriologist:
The word Religion has more than one meaning.
So does many other words. Words like "bad" and "sick" can mean "good" in certain circumstances. The word "organ" can mean a musical instrument and a body part.

Colloquial and contextual definition of words are very important.

Theism refers solely to a belief in a god. But even it has another meaning (a morbid condition from an excessive consumption of tea).

That is why we avoid ambiguous words or identify the specific meaning we intend to pass to avoid an open interpretation.

Or we draw out scenarios with which to guide us with the interpretation intended eg like your Superman and comic interpretation is a very apt explanation exhibiting your intention.

Bacteriologist:
4. Prophecies as evidence of Bible and God.

This in itself has been the downfall of a lot of Christians in the religion section of nairaland.

Some Christians claim that the Bible contains a lot of prophecies that have been fulfilled. some also go on to vouch for their pastors to have made prophecies that indeed happened to come true. And therefore their religion must be true.

This is a dishonest argument because

A. Prophecies are being made across all major religions. And all major religions also do claim their books to have predicted certain events that did happen to have come through. So if indeed prophecies come true it happens in other religions as well so it is not an unfalsifiable evidence of the true religion.

B. We have cases of other documents which are not at all religious and that have predicted events that did happen to come through. There are experts in various fields of study who predict what will happen( like discoveries, new challenges etc) in their fields of study, 30 to 50 years and we find it to be so. This does not make them "divinely inspired or infallible."

The recent black hole image that was captured in 2019 was theorized and predicted by Albert Einstein. This does not mean that Albert was necessarily a man of God or a prophet.

Prophecies are often a result of mere predictions or at best, a calculated guess.

C. A lot of prophecies in religious books are ambiguous. Specificity is one of the properties of an actual prophecy. And the religious books fail woefully in that area. A lot of prophecies in the Quran and the Bible are vague and several events could be fitted to match these "prophecies" and tagged as "fulfilment."

D. Christians usually ignore the unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible when they say that prophecies validate their claims. Does that also mean that the unfulfilled prophecies invalidate their claims?

Or perhaps, the prophecies that were "fulfilled" are merely predictions that could have happened anyway given the non-existent timeframe given to expect the fulfillment.

Also, there is no way to reject the possibility of prophecies that were "fulfilled" being, in fact orchestrated. Someone who prophecies the death of a man, for example, could send killers after that man. And claim it was a "fulfilled prophecy" when, in truth, he orchestrated the whole process himself.

Prophecies are not evidence and it is a nonsensical way of proving that your religion must be true when, in fact, other religions also claim to have prophecies and you don't regard them as true because of that.

Until you can do that, you are presenting a dishonest argument based on the bias you previously held.
I will halt here for now but as I see more nonsensical arguments from Christians I will add it to this list and with debunking (of course!).

What other bullshit Christian arguments can you add to this? Let me know.

As I said above, the Defence of Tender Years Avail those who argue this way!

Bacteriologist:
3. Quoting the Bible as evidence for God.

This is one of the most common signs of an intellectually dishonest Christian.

This is chiefly because the actual foundation of a Christians belief in God is based on the Bible. And so it will be illogical to try to use the Bible to try and justify a belief that was born from reading the Bible in the first place.

It is like providing the evidence of Superman using a Superman comic.

Or providing evidence that Harry Potter exists based on what was written in the book of Harry Potter.

Santa Clause books cannot serve as evidence for Santa Clause.

Christians that do this are engaging in a circular form of reasoning and are dishonestly presenting
a circular argument:

You already understand that many of them do not "know what they do", (even though they think so, until you point out to them) do go easy on the children, let them off.

And of course being children, it is not necessary to insult them or cause them shame, unless of course they drew first blood, which I know you can still overlook, since they are children.

Bacteriologist:
Why do you believe God? Because the Bible says so.

Why do you believe what the Bible says is true? Because the Bible is the Word of God.

Why do you Believe the Bible is the word of God? Because the Bible says so.

Again, Why do you accept what the Bible says as true?
Because I believe in God and Bible is God's word."

And the cycle repeats itself

As I said, they are children and you already know it, so leave them alone to grow.

Bacteriologist:
A Christian quoting biblical text as evidence for Yahweh is not any different from a Muslim quoting Quran text as evidence for Allah or a fanatic Harry Potter follower quoting Harry potter's books as evidence for Harry Potter.

Christians who do this are unable to argue for their God based on neutral grounds and are being intellectually dishonest.

When discussing with Christians that quote the Bible as an evidence for the Bible or the God of the Bible, it is a clear sign of dishonesty. And they're best avoided as trying to reason with their ilk is surely an exercise in futility.

Children do not understand that A Primary Evidence in Contention, No Part of it Can be Re-Used.

External Evidence must be used in this situation.

Bacteriologist:
So

2. Atheism is a religion.

This is another case of a Christianity trying to dishonestly equate atheism to other religions.

According to the above definition of religion, Atheism does not fit in. Because Atheism does not believe in any god. Atheists do not have a certain kind of practice like a "church" or any other common gathering they are obligated to attend. There are no doctrines in Atheism. No set dress code, No set sexual preferences, no set lifestyle. Zero. Zilch.

The only common ground for any two Atheists even under the same roof is their non belief in all the gods.


Atheism is a lack of belief in all the gods and it is no less a religion just like not watching TV or not swimming is a hobby.

No one answers "Not Samuel" or "Not Anita" or "Not Buhari" to the question "What's your name?" So "Not believing in all religions/gods(Atheism)" cannot be an answer to the question; "What's your religion?"

Christians that classify Atheism as a religion are ignorant about what it means or more frequently, lying. It is a dishonest attempt to undermine atheism and bring it on par with other religions including Christianity.

Same Rule Applies here, what goes for the goose, goes for the gander!

Do unto others, what you want them to do unto you.

Bacteriologist:
So during my short time in the religion section of nairaland I have seen quite a lot of Christians with a lot of issues.

I spend little time creating topics compared to reading the topics of others and comments. And while doing both actions I have seeing a lot of Christians who are just plain dishonest and it'll be a total waste of time to try and have any reasonable discussion with them.

The following is a number of utterances/arguments (long post warning!) from a Christian that will prove to you that you're wasting your time trying to expect a reasonable discussion from these people.

_________________________________________


1. Claim Christianity is not a religion.

The very first sign of a dishonest Christian.

This is usually a case of "special pleading" where a Christian tries to assume a unique status for their faith or to "special plead" Christianity from the common pitfalls of religion. You hear stuff like:

"All religions are lies but Christianity is not a religion. It is a relationship with God"

"Religions makes laws but Christianity does not have laws because of grace."

Some have even gone further to argue that because Christianity is not a religion The separation of religion and state does not apply to Christianity. And so the teachings of christianity can be used to pass laws into the constitution.


It is rather ironic that these sort of people dust their bags and go to church every sunday. Not going to church on certain service days is termed a "sin." Even though there are no "set/written" laws.

They pray to God in a certain way, ending their prayers in a certain way. And offering responses to those prayers in a certain way using a certain phrase. And is not a religion.

Most all Christians have a certain doctrine they follow in their churches.
A doctrine which is a carefully selected set of behavioural standards (dressing, eating, sexuality etc). But they insist it is not a religion. Because they have no "laws."

These people fill in "Christianity" into forms and questionnaires when asked about their religion. Even though they claim to have "no religion."

It is even more ironic that these people do not ask their churches to begin paying taxes. Since the tax exemption for religious institutions no longer applies to them.

A Christian that claims Christianity is not a religion is a dishonest Christian. Because Christianity sure fits both the colloquial and dictionary definition of religion.

Religion
/rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/

noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Christianity believes, references and worships a god called Yaveh. So it is by definition a religion.

Christians who deny this have shown a very clear sign of intellectual dishonesty and should be avoided at all cost. As any expectation of a fruitful discussion with them will -more often than not, result in futility

.

You Used only one part of the popular definition of religion and you did not lay the other parts of the definition, for the appreciation of the whole, to wit

a particular system of faith and worship.
plural noun: religions
"the world's great religions"
a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

The word "religion" has more than one meaning other than the one you laid up there.

And these other meanings come into play when Anti Christians Wrongfully Use it as a weapon, to which, Christ Followers would have no other choice than to dispose the of it, on the whole!

But if Anyone finds a word that only has one meaning for the belief in God, and no other meaning, we shall stand with and by it and some of us here are willing to fall with it.

Going to the other parts of your presentation.

HembaqMbk:
#Opinion

I have tried to pray on my own without praying in the Holy Spirit (speaking in tongues), the longest I could pray was 30 mins. As a believer, if you really want to pray with understanding and stay long in prayers - involve the Holy Spirit to enable you pray in Tongues....


Happy Sunday

Why do you guys like to do vanities and nothingnesses, then you would come and say that God does not answer prayers or that God does not exist, yet you do vanities and expect to get results for doing vanities.

Did you not hear? Matthew 6:7
7 But when ye pray, use not[b]vain repetitions[/b], as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Do you need to talk to your father for I Hour? or

Shall you speak to your father in a foreign language or tongue, instead of the regular tongue you use for your normal conversation as you usually do?

And do you not know that prayer is meant for for you to have a Meeting with God?

If the meeting is empty, would you have had a meeting? , oh, a meeting with yourself!

And then you expect that a meeting, you held with yourself, the resolutions and prayers in that meeting shall be answered by Someone Who is Not in That Meeting? Never!

You are the one who held that meeting for yourself and prayed to yourself for yourself to answer the prayers you prayed. So, go on, go and answer your own prayer!

After all, you can answer your own prayer.

I concur!

Daejoyoung:
My man, all these fears are unnecessary, God did not send his son to count our sins against us but to reconcile us to himself.

The so called unforgivable sin in Mark, was when the pharisees accused jesus of using Belzeebub. It says you would not be forgiven for such a blasphemy, which simply means you would be held accountable for it.

No where does it say you are doomed forever in Hellfire, I wonder why Christians allow so much fear.

That is what I am saying, God's Mercies are Plentiful if you Honestly Regret Your Act and You
are willing to pay the price to obtain it.

Daejoyoung:
Are you talking about proof in the existence of a God? or you are simply saying that religious people are atheists too?

Many religious people do not doubt the existence of the gods of some other religions for instance, they just believe they are devils. e.g it is not uncommon for a Christian to say Ahmadioah is a demon, that christian is not necessarily questioning the existence of ahmadioah but rather he is saying Ahmadioah is the devil ( enemy of both man and God).

So let me get your arguement straight, are you talking about proof of the existence of God? or you are simply saying the ACCEPTANCE of only one God, makes muslims and Christians atheists to other religious people?

He was not talking about Poof of God, He Clearly said, Christians are also atheist, which we have Rejected Already.

He was attempting to change post to Proof of God, which is why we have sent him back to stand by his Original Post, which is Not a Call for the Proof of God.

Now, you would be allowing to change his post

Kobojunkie:
I am not the one twisting anything.
Well, let's stick to topic at hand, shall we?
Again, the definition of the word "athiesm" makes no requirements of proof of existence of chosen deity, but asserts that a lack of a belief is all that is necessary.

Correct Answer!! Clap!!clap!! clap!!

IamMichael:

I don't think they do think that. It's expected because reason is usually what religion destroys from the beginning. That's why religion breed's thoughtless persons who will do anything their religion dictates as interpretated by one SHAMMAN like that.

On a funny note though, each of the different sects will be like:
"You can keep decieving yourself that your religion is the true religion but my religion is the true one. If you don't join us, you will rot in hell."

Religion is really funny!

You are Michael, you dey ok?

You be Uta, Na you Create Rubbish Post, Now don dey select targets by yourself, Abi lightening don strike your CPU?

IamMichael:

Lol. No be by force to believe in something wey no dey exist na. Are Atheists not living their peaceful life without god in it?
When you enjoy things produced by Atheists, do you complain?

I just don't know why disbelief in something that no-one can prove is a big deal!

Just imagine how you will look at someone forcing you to believe that Santa Claus is real. Won't you wonder what is wrong with the person?

This Post is Not About "believe in something wey no dey exist na."

It is about an attempted unholy union between Belief in God and (I no wan belief say God, dey!) AKA Atheism!

We Reject the attempted union!

No be by force to marry us na, We Get Husband Already. So, we no dey marry Una or Any other body!

We don Marry Jesus, the Christ!

IamMichael:
@bolded,
Your point above can only be true if you have proved with verifiable evidence that the god you chose is the real one and that the others are not.

Deciding to choose one out of many and disregard the rest as untrue is atheism. You don't believe in their god.


Atheism is as simple as that. If 5million people worship Amadioha, and 50million people worship yahweh in State A. The disbelief shared by this two religious adherents that the other god is unreal is referred to as ATHEISM!

WHETHER OR NOT YOU BELIEVE YOUR OWN GOD IS THE ALMIGHTY IS MEANINGLESS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT PROVED THAT WITH ANY VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE!

Naaah!

This post is not about the Proof of Our God to "others" But a Clear Rejection of Your Post That "We, Who Believe in God, are also A type of Atheist, TO WHICH WE REJECT AND ANSWER, THAT, WE ARE NOT. WE BELIEVE IN THE MOST HIGH GOD AND HIS SON, JESUS, THE CHRIST!!!!

IamMichael:

Belief in one means disbelief in the rest. That disbelief in the rest is atheism because the god's you disbelieve in is also believed by other people who revere and worship them as you worship yours.

Ta Sharap

Atheist Clearly Say, There is no God!

Your statement Clearly shows People Who Believe that there is God.

After that Your Statement is Between the Believers of God, Which One is The True One and the Highest. That is all.

It is not in the purview of Atheism but Wholly Within the Jurisdiction of Believers of God.

They are Not in The same Class and they can Never be Wedded

Stop this Wedding Immediately I Object to this Unequal Marriage!!!

This Union Can Never Take Place!!!

CAPSLOCKED:
IS THIS NOT WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING SINCE I JOINED THIS FORUM?

AN ATHEIST IS DOOMED AND LOST IN THE EYES OF A CHRISTIAN WHO IS DOOMED AND LOST IN THE EYES OF A JEW WHO IS DOOMED AND LOST IN THE EYES OF A BUDDHIST, AND THE CYCLE CONTINUES.

IF YOU THINK I'M GOING TO HELL IN YOUR RELIGION FOR NOT BEING A PART OF YOUR RELIGION, HAVE YOU THOUGHT OF THE NUMBER OF HELLS YOU'LL GO TO FOR NOT BEING A PART OF MANY OTHER RELIGIONS?

I KNOW YOU WOULD WANT TO PLAY THE "TRUE RELIGION" CARD AND SAY THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD THE MAKER OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, AND THERE IS ONLY ONE HELL. BUT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE NOR PROOF THAT FROM A THOUSAND RELIGIONS THAT CLAIM TO BE TRUE, ONLY YOURS IS DEFINITELY CORRECT. YOU MAY BE DOING IT WRONG. WILL YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?
NOBODY: NO.

At least you have Established 2 things for us;

1) there is God and
2) there is hell.

Whose God? (In whispers *Ours*)

Whose hell? (In whispers* Our God's Prison*)

IamMichael:
Christians and Muslims are Atheists to other religious god's, they just went one god further!

Atheism simply means disbelief in religious god's. So, next time you decide to denigrate another unbeliever, remember you are also denigrating yourself!!!

No we are not At, Heist!

We Know and Understand That the Most High Rules Infinitely!

kingxsamz:
Simple and short.
You religious folks are no different from atheists if you don't believe in other thousands of gods.

You guys just want to open another Subsidiary, seeing that Pure Atheism is not going to work Here!

Kobojunkie:
I am bored, so what the heck, i willl indulge ypu for a few moments.

I believe you are wrong with even this one @OP

As long as any of the mentioned believes in at least one God, then athiesm is ruled out completely.

Oh oooh! Tell them oh!

Atheism Always Means that They Do not want to Accept That God Rules All including them.

bigname23:
guy u get time oh only u dey argue with over 3 pepo, Bros stop to dey waste ur time dis pepo nor go ever agree with u, u self nor go ever agree with them..Bros save ur energy na insults una go throw give each other for here..

Thanks for the heads up. I bin don dey go except say dat guy tink say e get Mata wit me but e don finish now.

Thanks.

GodHead85:
1. NO. It did Not Reflect ! And I hate repeating myself.
There are different kinds of Atheists. The Atheists you are complaining about are The Strong Atheists. OP, and most people here are Weak Atheists . Knowledge is the deciding factor here. Strong Atheists know there is no god. Weak Atheists do not.

Likewise there are many kinds of Theists (Xtians, Muslims), Xtianity also has many kinds based on differing doctrines (7day Adventist, Protestant, Catholic). Even Mormons are variations of Christians.
You just skipped all of this to repeat your flawed Two way street analogy

2. Like I said I Hate repeating myself, especially if I sense Pride and Arrogance in my Partners tone. The way you write is Very condescending.

3. It's up to you Are you ready to listen And Have an Honest Conversation . Or Are you going To keep making Assumptions about things you don't understand ?

I have already listened and I heard you loud and clear and I do understand.

GodHead85:
You didnt come here for A Conversation . You came to TROLL and SPREAD LIES about things you know Nothing About .

You misrepresented her Position (which funnily enough, She predicted), and after dem catch you pants down, you wan run

Happy Running !

You spoke too soon

Vic2Ree:
But come oo. OP sef na hit and run . Why person go create thread come leave am waka? All these mumu Christians come dey worry us

oh! oh! ooh!

GodHead85:
I had to come and Explain to you[/b that Religious beliefs are not Black and White. I demonstrated all this to You when I mentioned the different types of Theists and Atheists ?

You Said you don't know much of atheism. We explained to you . But you kept repeating the same lies over and over

Can you now see that you are Disgusting Manipulator who is so selfish about his own Views, and doesn't care to know what others think?

"I had to come and Explain" (Thank God He Speaks the Truth here)

And after, you explained, did your explanation not reflect in my response to you, clearly showing my own opinion prior to your enlightenment?

Then, in response, you unfairly rained insults.

So how am I to proceed after all these?

Any other foolish or intelligent question? None? Alright I leave.

Vic2Ree:
Save your strength guy. All these Epistles ones na okoto meow....

Guy e sweet me to burn my strength now, na your own I dey burn?

Vic2Ree:
@bolded, I swear you're either an alternate moniker, or all you christards sound alike

There is Only One God, The Mighty Creator and there is None Else!

GodHead85:
You do the same. Present any lie from any atheist here.
When you do that, I will reveal your dishonesty and manipulation in living color

Do you see your life? You Accused of me of lying and then I demanded that you show me, Now You Have Backtracked and Called On Me To Prove, When you are the One who Accuses.

But I understand now how you all operate!

Vic2Ree:
I'm starting to believe you. You are ten times more ridiculous than him

No need to believe me for I am only a man.

I only came here to shake the tables on which you stand on but it is your right to choose to stand where you can fall and break your neck.

It is your God Endowed Power to Use Your Soul in Any Way and Manner, you can, I am Only Saying that You Shall Be Called Upon By the One Who Gave you all that you have, to Account and Explain How You have Used His Things.

And Either He Shall Smile and say "You have Done Well" or He shall be Much Vexed and you know what Follows every vexation.

But as I said in the first, it is Your Decision, Your Soul!

GodHead85:
You know what they said about pointing fingers don't you? Your lies are starting right back at you in the mirror right now


Thanks

Likewise, you have enlightened me and exposed the workings of the mind of a christian and that in all honesty and truth that they love pursuing, as well proclaiming the most insidious lies of this world, with a view of changing the lie into a truth!

Hence you all are not Concerned with natural Truths Nor Natural Law, from which you claim to speak from and on which you claim to stand and stand Forever.

But I have never known the Dark Minds of a christian and why you people think the way you do, until You Showed me.

Bring out the lie I have presented here.

Vic2Ree:
Dtruthspeaker, answer me na.. are you and Jesusjnr the same?

No I am not He!

GodHead85:
Ok so I noticed the following from your write-up:

1. You are a very dishonest person. This is sad for a man that adopt a "truth-speaker" sobriquet
2. You have never engaged and are not interested in rational discussions. This is why you dismiss logical fallacies as if they don't matter when they truly do matter. I already demonstrated why your two Lane analogy doesn't correspond with religious beliefs. You didn't even bother to address the fact that even in christianity, different worldviews exists
3. You are the picture perfect example of the kind of Christian the OP is criticizing. You don't care for other people's views as long it is not yours. You came here to piss people off instead of having a productive discussion.

Based on the aforementioned you came here for one purpose and one purpose only: TO TROLL.

on that note, I want to deeply apologise to you. I will never make the mistake of having an intelligent argument with you again.

No need to apologize to me sweetheart for You have Enlightened me and Exposed the Workings of the Mind of An Atheist and That in All Honesty and Truth That They Love Pursuing the Lies of this world, With A view of Changing the Lie into a Truth!

Hence You All are not Concerned with Natural Truths Nor Natural Law, from which I speak from and on which I stand and I stand Forever.

But I have never known the Dark Minds of an atheist and why he thinks the way he does, until You Showed me.

elated177:
Mmhmm! It is neither here nor there.

By the way, what you stated may not be the unforgivable sin(blasphemy) the Scripture talks about.

My opinion is, the Lord is Good and Full of Mercy and He is Capable of Forgiving any and every offence, if the offender Ernestly and Fervently Begs for Forgiveness and he even takes certain steps to soothe and ameliorate the wrong done to Lord.