₦airaland Forum

debosky:
HOW OLD was Silvestre when Arsenal signed him? He signed at 31, after being out for nearly A FULL SEASON with injury. Silvestre was washed up when we signed him - he was behind Rio, Vidic, Evans and even O'Shea for a CB position. What else would you define as washed up? He was completely out of reckoning with France, what else do you need?  

Depends on how you look at it, he had been in and out of action for a long time but there was nothing concrete to suggest he couldn't put his injury woes behind him. prior to his injury troubles he played 44 games for Manure when they recaptured the title in 05/06 season and was missing from early 06/07 to late 07/08 while we bought him beginning of 08/09. For such a well decorated player it looked a bargain at .5m.

debosky:
It is unbelievable for you to compare Silvestre who had been out for nearly a whole season to Gallas who played regularly for us for over half the season. There is NO JUSTIFICATION at all for not holding on to Gallas - if you are willing to give 35 year old Sol a one year deal, why isn't Gallas who is still regularly featuring for France being offered a 2 year deal?
Wenger is simply stubborn - if he gave him 2 years, we might be able to sell him on for £5m just like Chelski did for Carvalho right now.

We could also end up stuck with him winding down his contract like Silvestre, Sol still looked good, hasn't had any recent injury (except if a big tummy has become an injury) and on the strength of last season's performance is still going strong, I'm sorry but I can't say the same for Billy.

debosky:
Gallas that still featured at the last WC is what you are comparing to Silvestre?  
Dudu you go to some astonishing lengths to justify bad decision making by the gaffer - this is yet another example of it.

How would you rate his performance at the world cup? going by your prior arguments, beaten by both Mexico and SA who are lightweights in international football, should any sane coach buy him now?

debosky:
Gallas was not past it in any sense - if his performances with Vermaelen kept us in the groove for much of the season, it is telling that in his absence we conceded goals like crazy.

We also conceeded goals like crazy with him in the side, he was there when we were thumped 3-1 by both Chelsea and Manure.

debosky:
How old was Vidic when he left Spartak?   How old was Sagna when he left Auxerre? Were they 30? Did they spend the majority of their playing career in a backwater league?  
Don't compare apples and oranges mate.

Individual career paths differ, it shows strength of character that he is doing better with old age, he could have missed out for a lot of reasons while younger including political upheaval in Bosnia (can't recall how many popular Bosnian players I know). We can only go with his recent performances and they have been impressive. He is also meant to make up the numbers not necessarily a main stay, which is why I think it might not go through now that Montpellier are talking a lot about money.

debosky:
Dunno what reviews you're talking about, but he didn't get into the team of the season, and you can't go by anything on the FIFA website run by idiots who were posting fake interviews from Xavi and Puyol.

All I know is that his reviews are good and for a CD to be tagged the player to watch for any side shows remarkable performance, in a game that focuses so much on goals.

debosky:
Go check how many missed last pre-season with injuries. Getting two 'starlets' with the rubbish England team means little or nothing; it means players that might have to start on Sunday will be more tired or possibly injured.

Lai lai, not since Arsene has taken over this team have 6 first teamers been out of pre-season. Infact missing pre-season is usually a precursor to losing your first team position (have you so soon forgotten the Flamini and Gilberto debacle). Since I've been following Arsenal pre-season (since 03/04) never have 6 first teamers not appeared at all during pre-season matches and most of our pre-seasons have included 1 or more losses (though I must point out we've also never conceded up to 5 goals in a single match during pre-season)

debosky:
In attack and attacking midfield yes, but NOT in defence. We haven't had such a paucity of defenders in years, and in terms of goalkeepers, this is our worst bunch since the time before Wenger.

Maybe, but it is amazing what you can come up with when you have a doomsday oriented perspective, Almunia has taken us to within 4 points of winning the PL as our first choice keeper in the past and wasn't in the worst lot of GKs we had until now, wouldn't you have called Almunia a proven PL keeper prior to last season?
Everyone is hyping Joe Hart now but do you know exactly what sort of season he will have next?

debosky:
On the way down? Even if they were on the way down, Spahic is also on the way down at 30!!

Maybe, but he's just coming off an impressive season for both club and country, those are good enough antecedents for a backup CD.

debosky:
What has Djourou ever done to be considered as one of the 'main CBs'   Even if we accept Vermaelen, and say Koscielny is an unknown quantity due to his recent joining. Which equivalent team has only two CBs that can be relied on, one of them who as recently as two years ago was languishing in Division 2?

Compare to Utd - Evans, Vidic, Smalling, Ferdinand.

Chelski - Alex, Terry, Ivanovic

Seriously, you don't see the OBVIOUS madness in such a strategy? One of your 'main CBs' is perpetually injured, the second has never played in the EPL and only played in a top division for a year. Only Vermaelen is proven quality and we should be ok?   Your suggestion to fill in the gap is a 30+ player who has only played a season in a credible league?  

Exceptional What is your definition of Exceptional?   In Croatia he didn't play for the big teams there, didn't win titles. . .in Moscow, he played for crap teams for most of his stay there, ended up not winning any titles, and played for Montpellier last year and did what exactly?  

I am worried about Koscielny - till we see him against EPL opposition, I have nothing to judge on beyond pre-season which was average at best.

So you count Smalling as proven?? pray what has he done to merit such a tag? if you ask me I think we dodged a bullet with that transfer, and you have an injury prone Rio too. What had Ivanovic won before moving to Chelsea? same thing Spahic won (the Russian cup with Locomotiv Moscow). He is also captain of his national squad if that doesn't show character I wonder what does.
We had Silvestre who had won everything winnable with Manure and where did that end up We can only go by his recent performances and the reports are good.

debosky:
Stop defending the indefensible - Wenger gave  a washed up Silvestre of all people a TWO YEAR DEAL, but was reluctant to give a Gallas still performing at the highest level a two year deal. If that isn't daft, I don't know what is.

Gallas left because he wasn't offered a longer deal and not because of any injury concerns.

At the time, Silvestre wasn't washed up. He was only back after an extended time out to injury recurrence (he started 44 games for Manure as a 29 year old in the season before his injury woes started when they reclaimed the PL). Arsene couldn't have known how much an impact his injury had on him. Silvestres record prior to his Arsenal move was much better than Gallas record is now, he was back from an extended time out to injury with nothing to suggest he couldn't rediscover his form, buying Silvestre at that time would be like someone buying Hargo now. I can understand if Arsene doesn't want to get burnt twice offering Gallas a 2 year deal and then end up with a rapidly declining player.

Its official, here is the squad for the season minus any late arrivals, so I'll hold on to that money though I'm still tempted to bet about a 100 quid.

https://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/images/aug_10/gun__1281110311_20100806_squadphoto.jpg

So nice to see 5 players making the jump from reserves to the first team, Arsenal's youth policy is about to start bearing fruit now.

slimshay:
Dudu I beg to differ, before he succumbed to his mandatory injury, Gallas was outstanding. Why else would there be a call to suspend the over-30 rule for him? The issue wasnt about his performances, it probably was to do with contract sums and length of contracts. But then like I said earlier, it seems its Twitchy to the rescue.
Debo there is yet to be a criticism of Spahic except PL experience.

I partially agree with you Slim, Gallas was immense prior to his injury so there must have been something Arsene saw post injury that led to his change of mind (Gallas was always a hot head but Arsene handled him well and still got something from him even after his removal as captain). Our experience with Silvestre should be enough a lesson as to what injury does to players particularly the older ones. I thought Silvestre was a good buy at the time with his experience and trophies (though one shld have suspected Fergie's willingness to sell him to us) but hindsight proved otherwise.

debosky:
Seriously, keeping Gallas would've been a coup for Wenger. Failing to do so is what has put us in this quandary.

Lai lai, it was obvious Gallas was on a downhill trajectory last season, can't recall now if it was Agbonlahor who muscled him off the ball at a stage or the annihilation by Chelsea at the emirates (though I must admit he cld hardly be called fully fit for that match) but I remember calling my brother and telling him Gallas was past it, prior to those performances the buzz was that Arsene was willing to break his over 30 policy on account for him.

debosky:
What stats? For Montpellier? What 'top level' has he played at? NK Zagreb and Torpedo Moscow?  

So what is wrong with Montpellier? didnt we get Sagna from Auxerre? wasn't Vidic bought from Spartak Moscow?

debosky:
The only reason they 'almost pipped' Portugal was because Portugal was so bad that they had to go to play offs, it's no claim to quality. One season at Montpellier at such an age is not encouraging. If we wanted aged players we should've signed Carvalho who at least has EPL experience of winning. He's not won anything in his career so what is the benefit apart from being a lunatic slapper? We already have Eboue to slap people if needed.

Eboue doesn't slap people, he only eavesdrops on other's conversations   this guy from all indications is very mean and nasty. L'Equippe has him down as the player to watch for Montpellier in the coming season, shows how much of an impact he made last season. I've also been to the Fifa site and his reviews are quite positive, some dating back to last year when he was about moving to Montpellier indicated a belief that he was too good for the french league.

debosky:
There is little reason for optimism, given that our age old problems of defending have been exposed more than ever. We jhave historically always scored, but with our first choice defence we still concede like crazy. I know you put caveats, but nevertheless, we are in need of a MASSIVE improvement defensively to have any chance of winning the league.

Half full/Half empty, you know I'm always optimistic about Arsenal anyway but I'm optimistic enough to actually put money down this time. Our labour has started to bear fruit. When was the last time 2 starlets from Arsenal were considered good enof for the NT? when last did we finish pre-season unbeaten? when last did we play pre-season without 6 members of the first team appearing at all?
Once you don't hang the 5 year lean period on your neck like a chain, there is a whole lot to be positive about going into the season. We haven't had such strength in depth for ages.

debosky:
I agree fully, but even thinking Spahic is a good signing is very worrying. We lose EPL winning quality for two seasons running in Gallas and Kolo, and all we can find to replace them is Spahic?  

Once you can face up to the fact that those 2 players you mentioned were on their way down anyway, it becomes easier to bear. It is clear from Arsene's purchases that the present main CBs are Koseniyan, Verm and Djorou and the future is Nordtveit, Bartley et al. Its backups and numbers we are looking at now which is why Arsene felt Sol was good enough, I think Arsene will be satisfied with anyone that comes close to Sol.
Remember in a way, we are still counting our pennies   yet we've already spent a reported 10m on Kos.

Look at it this way, Kos replaces Gallas as Verm's main partner, Spahic replaces Sol and Djorou probably replaces Silvestre with Nordtveit replacing Senderos with the added benefit of his versatility as a RB.
Spahic may not have PL experience but he has proved himself exceptional in 3 different leagues, I think he is a worthwhile gamble.

debosky:
Why hopefully Spahic? No experience at all at a top club, a nomad who just recently showed glimpses of improvement (in France)? Is that what will give you hope?   While another body (even Silvestre. . . . nah, Wilshere will play at CB before considering Mikael  ) would be desirable, why not someone with at least EPL experience?  

If na EPL experience we dey find, then we should have retained Gallas or Silvestre  
that guy's stats were impressive in the Ligue 1 last season, has played at the top level for quite a while, captains his country who almost pipped Portugal to appear at the world cup and is a "mean aro" according to most reports, in our team of extraordinary gentlemen I think he would be a good addition, a couple of notches down the fair play table if it means some silverware at last is a good tradeoff.

debosky:
Don't be overly reliant pre-season results - beating Celtic and co is not a real indication of much. Likely trends become decipherable after 10 competitive games when teams get into their groove.
While we have strength in depth in most areas, we are still exposed at GK, CB and DM positions. At the rate things are going, we won't know of any strengthening till end of August.
That is NOT a good place to be and I am concerned that we will leave it too late yet again, and end up failing to strengthen where needed.

I agree, its early days yet but our results are quite encouraging for the reasons I've mentioned above, arguably 6 first teamers out through out pre-season, lots of chopping and changing during matches e.t.c. and I did put caveats to my optimism.

debosky:
Dunno why y'all will believe a report from the SUN. .  .that paper is usually full of crap anways. Till I hear it from a more reliable source, I am inclined NOT to believe this story.
Edit: Fulham DENY the reports http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=813524&sec=transfers&cc=5739

I will never believe any signing until I see it on the Arsenal site hence my caveats about the CB and GK positions.

If Arsene is able to get in that extra CB before the season closes (hopefully that Spahic guy), I will go out and stake 200 pounds on Arsenal winning the PL. If we get the added bonus of a better GK coming in then I will stake 400. Most people don't see the strength in depth we now have. It is interesting to note that we went through pre-season unbeaten after facing the likes of AC and Celtic and we haven't used players like RVP, Cesc, Denilson, Diaby, Song and Bendtner at all.
I have good vibes for this season.

follypimpi:

Come to my bed is very warm

Muki beware of free lunches, someone's gotta pay in kind and trust me Folly na proper ijebu man like Arsene he will get full value for his service.

@Slim

I always thought DK only delighted in poking fun at us, I never for once thot he believed his points about Arsene. I still don't think he does though, he's just having some fun at our expense.

dayokanu:
Without the CL expansion Arsenal wont be in the CL most of the time, If you use CL participation to rate Wenger over previous managers then its not right. CL participation was more difficult in the previous years than now

Who has said that consistent CL participation is the only reason why Arsene is rated over other previous managers his legacy transcends that and keeping a team in the top 4 of a league over a 12 year period shows remarkable consistency cos even in the olden era that would have meant a lot of UEFA cup participations, even in the lean 5 year period we would still have qualified for the old UEFA cup at least 2 seasons out of the 5. Place that in the context of our spending compared to the other teams (even teams like Tottenham, City, Newcastle have spent much more than we did) and the development within the club and yu'll realise you have someone akin to a miracle worker.

dayokanu:
Winning a league unbeaten means what? Its still the same trophy that was handed out to the team who lost 12games and still won.
Its like saying someone won the league without conceeding or by scoring the most goals, All that matters is winning and not all that rubbish attached to it

If it means nothing, how come only 2 clubs have achieved it in the history of the league and only Arsenal in the modern era? we are still the only club to have produced a team with that tag of invincibles? even as poor as the Bundesliga is and with less games to play in it, has Munich ever won it unbeaten?

dayokanu:
A manager who has stayed 14yrs at a club should be winning trophies consistently and not going 5yrs barren

Quoting from the Gospel according to DK chapter 4 vs 19.

dayokanu:
Does your analysis explain why Van Gaal got to the CL finals at first attempt with bayern,

Why Mourinho won after 2 attempts with Inter

And wenger has only been to the final once in 14 attempts at Arsenal could this be due to financial doping too?

Congratulations to Van Gaal and Mourinho, to each his own. Most of those who understand the club's situation are happy with our manager even if we don't all agree on who he should be buying or letting go. If Bayern supporters aren't happy with Van Gaal for not winning the UCL, let them go and sack him if they like, it should be getting boring winning only domestic titles according to you.

dayokanu:
Van Gaal took Bayern to the CL finals and a domestic double in his first season.

Jose mourinho broke a 45yr CL barren run for Inter after his 2nd season.

If in 5 yrs you still are nowhere near your targets or can see improvements then its worth revising the whole program.

When Wenger took over at Arsenal the club wasnt relegation bound and was one of the top English clubs who won the Winners cup.

Some say Arsenal being in the CL consistently is an improvement, this is very wrong, If the league only allows the league winners to feature in the CL, then Wenger would have only played 3 times.

Yu're smarter than this post DK, when you don't put things in perspective you distort fact. Ranieri had already taken that chelsea team to 2nd place and a UCL semi final in the season before Jose took over, they were 2nd only to an unbeaten Arsenal team. If you can't see improvement then you aint looking closely enof. There is no financial doping in the Bundesliga (apart from the "prestige doping" which favours Munich in creaming off most of the talented young players in Germany and backdoor government support in obtaining a new stadium). Arsene has managed the club at a time when financial doping in the PL has distorted the competitive landscape and he has kept the club competitive while improving its profile financially and developing a world class infrastructure (both for training and competition), the question now is if we can take the next step forward. If you don't understand that by now you never will.

Go consider what has happened to clubs like Ajax and in recent times Valencia when they've gone about building new infrastructure and how they've suffered both off and on the pitch, it is a credit to Arsene that we never dropped out of the UCL places at any point in the midst of all that.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=439183.msg6545104#msg6545104 date=1281423263]How about both games against Barca last season?? He brought us back in the game in the first leg and provided the opener in the 2nd leg but thanks to the i.mb.eciles we had at the back we couldn't hold a lead for 5 mins! an akpasusu like Diaby also had a chance to pass to Walcott and probably get us a 2nd goal but his pentium 1/2
brain was too slow to process that but trust Dudu to miss out on that. Whether one in ten games or one in a million games the moments of brilliance Walcott has provided is more than Diaby and Denilson combined would ever bring to the Emirates and it is this lack of moments of brilliance that has left us in this trophyless state no thanks to the average Joe's that Franco-Ijebu has assembled.[/quote]This is where you miss the whole point, Diaby and Theo don't play the same position and their roles are different, Arsenal has no problem with holding the ball (at least until we play Barca) we however have problems with turning possession to goal scoring opportunities, Diaby should ideally not even come close to Theo in the amount of goals scored cos he is further away from the opponent's goal. It is an indictment on Theo for you to be comparing him to Diaby in terms of moments of brilliance. Would anyone attempt to compare Arshavin to Diaby in terms of moments of brilliance?
What the statistics tell us is this that Diaby had 40 appearances last season and scored 7 goals from midfield while Theo had 30 appearances and scored just 4 (from a more advanced position and we have not even factored in how much he gives the ball away), if that is not indicting enough for you I wonder what will be.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=439183.msg6545104#msg6545104 date=1281423263]Theo Walcott is no Ronaldo what part of this don't you understand?? heck how many Ronaldo's do we have on the planet today? How many English players can dribble past their man convincingly? Guy wetin u dey yarn sef?[/quote]Yes Theo cannot, we've all confirmed that but we have up and coming players who deserve the opportunity to show what they can do, with what I've seen of JET, he has the height, the strength and skills to at least be better than Theo and potentially come close to or hit Ronaldo's level in and that is precisely why I'm calling for Theo's head (in a way). I am also sure Wilshere will be more productive than Theo if he plays that RWF role. Now, if you can tell me of a player coming through the ranks who can play Diaby's role then we can have a solid debate as to why Diaby has no place in the team.

This discussion reminds me of my debate with Debo last season as to why Eduardo had to go while Vela had to be retained. We all have our favorite players but there should be an overiding consideration as to the overall strength of the team and what the presence or absence of certain players bring to or subtract from the team.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=439183.msg6545104#msg6545104 date=1281423263]Then your view remains a biased one. Women Lie. Men Lie. Numbers Don't. Besides the entire team has been below par[/quote]Maybe or maybe not, don't have time to go looking for a statistic that is obvious. It reminds me of Arsene's response to Mark Hughes' comment on Ade's stamp on RVP, The general view is that Theo is wasteful in possesion, if you feel its a wrong perception then come up with the data to disprove it like I did with Diaby early on last season before people took note that he had indeed improved and finally won himself a place in the french squad.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=439183.msg6545104#msg6545104 date=1281423263]Man U and Chelsea have over the past 5 seasons shown us that its going to take more than just our kpanda version of possession footie to win in England. The Kingdom of the Premiership suffereth violence and the violent taketh by force so whether you like it or not we are going to need to resort to such measures more often than you would like. Barca showed us last season that we are doing a poor job of imitating them[/quote]That is precisely what they told the Spaniards until this year, but they stuck to their guns and did it their way and how glorious it was. 5 years is not too long to develop a footballing culture that will last. It takes belief to achieve.

dayokanu:
Bayern has in their lineup Lahm, Schweini, Muller, Badstuber, Contento( soon Kroos) who were from the youth team. Muller a 20yr old was best young player at the WC and highest goal scorer Amongst all the youth players at the World cup which one came from Arsenal thats worthy of being mentioned

I think he needs to win the league this season. After this season the club wont be taken seriously again. When Chelsea came around, Man Utd still found a way to lay down the law.

Last season, Chelsea was not at their best but still won the double. 5yrs is just too long  for a club to be barren

My dear DK, learn to compare apple with apple and not orange, the PL is different from Bundesliga. Everyone knows you cannot win with youth alone, Cesc is a winner any day but if a distorted market hampers your ability to compete on the financial front, there is not much anyone can do. With what Arsenal have had to do, Arsene has done a damned good job. Even the English press know this and some of them in their more reflective moments acknowledge it.
True enough he needs to win really soon to cement his legacy but only a gooner who cannot reflect deeply enough will belittle what Arsene has done for the club.

To be honest, an attacking team will always concede its fair share of goals, but the way we play requires a well oiled machine with all the parts knowing exactly what they should be doing.

There will always be space behind our full backs because our full backs provide the width to stretch the pitch, it is one of the reasons why we need to have effective wide forwards, the problem with Arsenal is that most of the time when we concede, we should ideally have been 2 goals up but due to the presence of people like a certain speedracer I dare not mention, we don't translate our dominance in the MF to goal scoring opportunities, to give a balanced view, I must also point out that the likes of Arshavin (and in recent pre-season matches Rosicky) have not been commited in their tracking back.

I think with the way we've played so far in pre-season, the Legia match should be a one off we started off very badly and then threw caution to the winds, atimes it is better not to concede that first goal at all than to go about chasing a game. I see it as a one-off because Emmanuel Frimpong started off very badly in the DM position leading to the first goal, for an 18 year old playing his way into the first team in pre-season after such an hectic schedule, that shouldn't be too surprising, what was more surprising was that it didn't get any better when he went off, even attributing it to wholesale changes in playing personel does not give me any reassurance at all. In other words, I am not too worried about the 3 goals we conceeded in the first half but very worried about the 2 we conceeded in the 2nd half after drawing level and going ahead.

I am worried about those two goals because like most of the goals we conceeded last season, we managed to turn none threatning situations into calamities, in each of those goals we had enough men back in defensive positions to counter the threat but somehow contrived to worsen the situation (Nani's waltz through Nasri and Clichy comes to mind) not sure if it is lack of concentration or just communication issues but our team's defending ethic needs sorting out and very fast too, atimes its almost as if someone is waiting for another person to take the initiative.

Friedel is good but everything from the MF to the defence needs sorting out. Maybe its a good thing we got that scoreline against Legia and not in the season proper.

Crazy news, Soccernet just reported that Martin O'Neill has quit as manager of Aston Villa

Pardon me Chamotex, yu shld knw I meant Andy Carroll of Newcastle, that thug who sent Steven Taylor to the hospital, pretty good Center Forward though.

dayokanu:
Are these guys English NT youngsters?

When did Arsenal merge with the English national team? abeg if you want to yab the english team go and create a 3 lions thread and pack all your yabis there. Arsene has repeated it over and over again that he is not the English NT manager.

There is still a player that Capello is yet to call up and that is Jack Rodwell of Everton, that chap is ready to step up for England big time. I also think JET should make it into the U21s sometime during this season, some of my friends are already tipping him to ultimately push B52 out of the Arsenal squad. I think he can be better than Roy Carroll, Delfouneso and Welbeck, he is obviously already better than Theo as a striker IMO.

By the way, where is Sauron and his much hyped Gravel Morrison who he claimed was better than Wilshere and Gibbs? the chap couldn't even make it into any of the English U17 and U19 squads? 

[Quote]
Wenger insists the club's strong financial position allowed them to keep hold of their skipper and he hailed the sound financial management at the Emirates.

"He was torn," admitted the Arsenal boss.

"But I must say that during the whole period Cesc was remarkably respectful of Arsenal. He has never shown a lack of love for the club, and in the end we managed to hold on to him.

"What people do not realise is we can say no to anybody in the world because we are in a healthy financial situation.

"If we are £300million in debt, we cannot keep our best players. People have to understand that we were strong with the Fabregas case because we are well managed.

"We could afford to be strong, we can afford to say no to any number, because we just feel we want to keep our best players."[/quote]Now lets start translating that financial strength into some silverware, at least DK cannot come and tell us now that we can't hold on to our best players.

Can you join me in congratulating Jack Wilshere and Kieran Gibbs on their first call up to the 3 lions, may they be the first of a new generation of gooners who will become mainstays of the 3 lions.
Rooney would enjoy playing with them.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=439183.msg6531827#msg6531827 date=1281207037]A moment of brilliance?? What else do you need to win football games? Moments of stupidity from the likes of Almunia or Diaby's own-goals? He has the pace and hence what he needs is to work on his decision-making and at 21 there is loads of time for that. The average English man is not skillful so if you where expecting Maradonic moves from Theo then sorry to disappoint you. When he creates chances and other players waste it i don't see you condemn them but na Theo you go just dey attack[/quote]How many of these moments of brilliance do we get? 1 in every 10 matches? and how do those make up for all the moves that have broken down? there is no player I don't point out what I perceive to be their faults and I also point out improvements when I see it. I always knock Vela for his unseriousness and would always put Song ahead of Denilson until he bulks up, Rosicky who is one of my favorite players has had a horrendous pre-season and needs to sharpen up, you hear more about Theo from me because every game he plays now exposes him more.
At 21 and with all the game time Theo has had he should be close to what he will be now. CR9 at 18/19 had poor decision making but could at least dribble past his man most of the time even though he tended to overdo it, Theo is all over the place when he receives the ball, even before he decides what to do with it he would have lost the ball.


[quote author=A-40 link=topic=439183.msg6531827#msg6531827 date=1281207037]Walcott was the best Arsenal player on the pitch that day!! I think the more we argue the more your prejudice for the lad shines through He put us in front and created a glorious chance for Van Persie's and but for his wastefulness we woulda been through to the final. Whereas Denilson & Diaby where killing us with their indecision on the ball and their inability to do a decent job in the middle against Ballack, Lampard and the other compadres. When Wilshere,JET and Lansbury start performing at the top stage consistently then your comparisons would make sense[/quote]Would you in all fairness claim that Theo has been performing at the top stage consistently as far as I'm concerned they are all developing players with Theo being given more opportunity so far in the first team. I am happy that will be changing very soon, people like JET and Wilshere are better footballers IMO.


[quote author=A-40 link=topic=439183.msg6531827#msg6531827 date=1281207037]How much game time has Walcott had? All his seasons have been marred by injuries at one point or another so what are you on. Do you have any accurate stats on who gives balls away the most at Arsenal or how did you deduce that? Lets see stats maynne[/quote]I don't even need to see the stats to know this, have you watched all our pre-season games?


[quote author=A-40 link=topic=439183.msg6531827#msg6531827 date=1281207037]Walcott would play even if we signed Maradona. There would be times we would need more than just pass and move to break down teams and Walcott is still the best option we have in that team at the moment
Keep crucifying Walcott and don't advice stingy Wenger to get legit defenders and goalies[/quote]This is a good line of thought, but I would want those times to be few and far in between. It is also worth considering the fact that the presence of players like Theo in the team hinders our playing pattern, just maybe that is why he is a good impact player and not a starter.

On a secondary note, that is the first match in their new stadium and Legia was really up for this match as they seemingly didn't want to lose their first match in their new stadium while we just took it like any other Pre-season game.
But still gives reasons for concern with that defense though, just don't seem to be able to handle pressure when it comes.

How will Arsene fix this defence before Liverpool? I'm a bit scared that backline still has serious communication issues. That was our first choice backline out there conceding 4 goals.

There you have Kieran Gibbs playing as a LM (that is what he started out as a youth player) and putting in a creditable shift in there. These are footballers not Theo.
Arsene was very right when he described Chamakh as a fighter, the chap fights for every ball.

Does A-40 still need any convincing as to how much Theo's presence distorts our game?

That shld have been the 3rd goal, Eboue is still a defender at heart.

Now that is a keeper.

@folly

Rosicky has not really had a stellar pre-season, I was almost screaming at him during the Emirates cup match against AC Milan. Wilshere and Frimpong look tired. But then Warsaw put us under pressure from the start and having someone like Theo on the pitch is never going to be helpful when you want to play a containing game.
This is a game that will likely turn in the 2nd half but it is one we shouldn't have gone into halftime more than a goal down.

Why does everything always go wrong when Fabianski is in goal? even if he is not a bad keeper, he is an extremely unlucky one. This surely must be the end, if Polish players are bullying you then something is badly wrong. Szczesney substitution please Arsene, we've had enough of Fabianski.
Chamakh showed his aerial ability right there though, I thot that was a keepers ball but he somehow got to it.