₦airaland Forum

CovenHighPriest:
Here one can easily see the inspiration behind the Adamma masquerade.

Yes, one thing that struck me was that the masks have Eurocentric noses..
The Europeans once used the Eurocentric noses of some of the Egyptian drawings as a proof that the Egyptians were not Africans.

If we were to use these examples from these mask, it would counter the arguments about those Egyptians drawings/wall painting.

JANK23H:
The screenshots are the original translation and Dr. Fage's commentary on Captain Pereira's account.Dr. Fage's commentary was corroborated by the investigation of the Copenhagen Polis Center.

Sorry the screenshots weren't clear,I would have uploaded the PDF here if I could.

Okay, Good one.

[quote author=JANK23H post=108138921][/quote]Bro, this book was published in the year 2000.

JANK23H:
The Portuguese account were written in Portuguese as expected,and so would not have had comparable circulation as that of the British.However,there have been recent translation and reviews of expedition into Africa by Duarte Pacheco Pereira and VALENTIM FERNANDES.

Attached is a screenshot of Captain Pereira's 15th century account,recognizing the presence of the Ijos or Jos as he called them then.Though some of his remarks were not complimentary,this could be attributed his strained relationship with the Ijos(Jos) as against the cordial trade partnership he had with the Benin kingdom.

This account should put to rest the notion that the Ijos were not original inhabitants of the NigerDelta.

Second shot:A Commentary on Duarte Pacheco Pereira's Account of the Lower Guinea Coastlands in his Esmeraldo De Situ Orbis, and on Some Other Early Accounts

First shot:Esmeraldo De Situ Orbis
by Pereira, Duarte Pacheco

I hope you know that this is not the original portugues book or translation but rather a thesis or book written with deductions from the original.

In other words, this book was making reference to the portugues text and not actually a direct translation.

Igboid:
You might be right.
Ethiopians fought them off, but they are not a first world country today.
Maybe we could have succeeded in making sure they didn't put us together with a people like Yorubas and Hausa-Fulanis who we had and have nothing in common with, other than skin color.

That was what Horton proposed and when he wrote the British crowns.
He recommended the structure of the army, government and all adapted to their current state and what would suit the people best to make them progress via self-governance.

Ironically, about 80 years later, his works inspired the African leaders like Zik and the rest who pursued independence. His works formed the basis of their agitation for independence and "self-governance.

Unfortunately, unlike Horton, these other leaders were just interested in taking over vast number of people in a Babel like Nigeria, rather than independent self-governance of the various ethnic groups.

cheruv:
Which book is this? I mean name

Rev. John Clark (1848) Specimens of Dialects: Short Vocabularies of Languages, and Notes of Countries & Customs in Africa

It is available online.

Igboid:
Good one.
If only they Learnt the process of making the barrels of gun earlier enough, maybe we could have made enough guns to halt the colonials from defeating us.

Honestly, and as you can see from these accounts, we have different main centres where these "industrialisation" were taking place.
blacksmith in Arochukwu Awka and somewhere in Enugu.

Clothing The locations as described by Baikie and then the known Akwete.

CovenHighPriest:
This thread is so rich mehn! Wow

Well. I appreciate the OP for opening up the opportunity for intellectual discourse.
The Europeans for all their faults really did a good job documenting things.
We documented ours through oral history and arts. We lived our arts and told our stories through arts and artefacts.

Here is another example of living our arts.
Compare picture 1 & 3
Compare picture 2 & 4

Igboid:
People that had no industry.
They were not farmers, not artists, not black smiths, no weaving industries, poor knowledge of Medicine ( they depended on Dibias from Aro and other parts of Igbo Land for cure of ailments).
They didn't even have enough humans! You need a robust developed agricultural system to support a large population.

You wonder what they were exchanging with Portuguese?

Talking about the blacksmiths. here was the encounter Basden had with the Awka smiths. Although, this is already between 1916-1920.

Igboid:
This one is a racist.
Tufiakwa.

He was referring to the blacks of the coasts LOL. He differentiated the other blacks from the Hickbaus blacks. LOL. Either ways, it is the swords I wanted to point out

Igboid:
People that had no industry.
They were not farmers, not artists, not black smiths, no weaving industries, poor knowledge of Medicine ( they depended on Dibias from Aro and other parts of Igbo Land for cure of ailments).
They didn't even have enough humans! You need a robust developed agricultural system to support a large population.

You wonder what they were exchanging with Portuguese?

You are right. This next series of uploads confirms something. This is 1699 by Barbot.
Given their words were racist. The people of the coast depended on the "Hickbaus/Hackbaus" (how Igbos were spelt in old prints). Here Barbot in his racist view though explained that the Igbos were the ones who supply food to all the coasts. (He visited Calabar, Dony, Okrika and he was in Bonny). He expressed what he saw in derogatory terms for all of them but reserved some respect for the commerce of the Hickbaus.

He bought a sword from the Igbos who were selling in Calabar as a souvenir.

In 1923, another set of swords were taken from Arochukwu and it was exactly the same with the one Barbot collected in 1699.

Igboid:
Even the white man thought the clothes our local weaving industry made were "fancy".

Impressive!

Our ancestors were indeed great! We are a Great people.

And notice there was no mention of Akwete even.
So we had many cloth making centres in ancient Igboland who made "fancy" clothes, but Akwete became in time the most famous of them all.

Tell me why one shouldn't be proud to be an Igbo?
A people who evolved and refined democracy, had impressive arts unmatched anyway in West Africa, had local weaving industry that made fancy clothes, successful farmers, built pyramids at Nsude, Great Black Smiths with Metallurgy skills unmatched by any other group in West Africa!

Igbo kwenu!

Umu Ubani, it's time you joined Izu Umunna. You have been gone for too long.

Yes, I like that these guys kept very good records and bought samples-

It was on the same expedition he recorded where Prince Tchukuma designed a cloth that looks like a dutch design even after only seeing it once! He witnessed it and then he made a drawing.

he used that drawing to make the front cover of his book eventually. That was one of the most amazing things he witnessed.

Horton renarrated the story in his book a few years later.

Shiver99:
We often use European/western accounts when discussing the coasts of Nigeria, as they extensively traded and interacted with its inhabitants and wrote detailed reports.

However tales of the Igbo hinterland has to be studied with far more care as they were often not first person accounts. Especially when you realise that as far as the late 19th century, most of Igboland was a no-go zone for foreigners.

To illustrate this point, for some time Europeans believed that Aboh was the head of Igboland. It made sense as the Aboh dominated lower delta trade and their coastal neighbours with their war canoes. Their town much larger and significant than anything seen on the coast.

This went challenged until natives informed them that there were towns 3 times its size far further in the hinterland with more industry.

Sure, their explorations of further islands were a bit limited and the Lander brothers and some of the others could not successfully go to deep. but Baikie broke the streak, went further inland by taking with him African born, European schooled explorers like Crowther and Taylor.
Schön also tried. Since they had to use the rivers to navigate inwards. However, they tried as much as possible to collect as much information and description from natives of those countries they met in whatever location they were at.

I remember when Baikie went to Onitsha or a market around there in 1850s(5), I will upload it to show you how he did ethnographic work there and got further information. He bought the cloths as a specimen to be labelled. He asked where the clothes are produced and he also interacted with "odiri", the guy he met there, to assess how they think about business and life.

OfoIgbo:
There is one in Enugwu-Ukwu at the moment

That's great to hear. Imagine what stories these guys might have, if they remember any..

Igboid:
Nna. Igbu Ichi is not for the faint hearted. Shit was too painful.
Not all survive it self.

I am glad we have some who still lived in our time, otherwise, they would have claimed through propaganda that we didn't own the Igbo Ukwu arts. Some of these marks and living customs helped tie some archeological discoveries to that area. Now, the Igbo Ukwu art confirmed that we have lived in that area way before 900 AD. The features on the art can be seen on us. "living fossils".


Look at that beautiful Igbo woman.

Look at the mask.

Because these things were alive, we can see the evidence of our culture and evolution as a people.

SlayerForever:
Memoirs of Captain Hugh Crow download link

You can get most on archives.org.

Also try worldcat.

Google books might hide some.

JSTOR is also a great resource but the problem here is that for some you need institutional subscription or paid subscription.

Here:

https://library.si.edu/digital-library/book/memoirsoflatecap00crow

OfoIgbo:
Any Igbo town with an Eke, Oye, Afor or Nkwo before Nigeria came into existence, was familiar with the MGBURU-ICHIs.

I can even guarantee you, your granddad must have come across them, but when the Europeans started installing warrant chiefs in Igboland, and forced the then Eze NRI Obalike to break the cultural ties binding Igbo towns to the NRI clan, the MGBURU-ICHI men started disappearing from the Igbo and Igodomigodo consciousness. Thank God Northcote Thomas took pictures of the few that were left then.

Many modern NRI people don't even know of MGBURU-ICHIs

Unfortunately... the only one left around that area celebrated his 100th birthday.
He is from Igbo Ukwu.

This is that of a woman in black and white and the recoloured version brought back to life.

Alabo7978:
I saw your excerpt buddy, and it is correct in all aspects only except that you understood them to be different entirely.
Please listen carefully I beg you, I want you to read and understand.
Eri himself when he landed didn't form a clan, but he stayed with his children till his death. His children dispersed and formed other tribe that is why you can't see "ERI" as a kingdom or a clan, or a tribe.
Ijo on the other hand had people who came with him and they settled. It was from the settlement his children went their way with a few followers.
Ijo towns were already established.
But it was his children and their various settlement who became more influential and richer.
Didn't you see the excerpt where it said ijo men banded with BRASSMEN?
Like I said, they will ALWAYS be at loggerheads, but when a foreign invasion comes, they band together.
Even the town's the obiama's went to settle especially odioma, had settlers there who were either running away from a juju priest or a king after commiting crimes or either setting up fishing camps. The obiama's settled with them (note) the existing people still had ijo or BRASSMEN blood but were either staying there because of fishing or running from a crime, then the obiama's settled and a town developing forms.
Then when the other established towns fills up, people from other ijoh and brass and other towns will go, from their intermarriage etc and it happened over hundreds of years and was made easy because of the dialect.
That is how ijos(in general) grew.
Though they were minor little waves of migration from benin and warri, but were mingled with them.
That is why all coastal dwellers trace their ORIGIN to ijo.
Even the founder of Obioku (the youngest Nembe speaking kingdom) was one King Wari a son of Ogbodo of bassambiri.
His mother was from odioma.
When the kingdom was formed, people from his father's side as well as his mother's side came to live.
That is how ijos descendants spread.

These long stories are not my concern. I just sent it to you because I wanted to correct your first statement. I have so many other proofs. I just pointed just one example out of the many.

Before me are multiple examples showing Ijohs to be a different group of people but this is none of my interest.

SlayerForever:
Seems Horton may have been a seasoned anthropologist.

He was the first to propose a self-governed independent nation of the Igbos and also of Akus (Yoruba) to the British crown. This is even before colonisation.

His proposition is that if the British helped these two nations, they will be very great and will be good source of trade and partnership. This was 1868! However, the British decided to go the opposite direction.

JANK23H:
You are such a pathetic liar!

"The Bonny amphibious landing was a combined operation undertaken by soldiers of the Third Marine Commando led by the Nigerian navy. It was the first amphibious landing in Africa by an independent African state.
Because of the terrain of Bonny and also because of the sabotage carried by Biafran sympathizers in the Nigerian navy on the naval ships, the Biafran military authority grossly underestimated the competency of the Nigerian navy to blockade Biafra or to amphibiously land on Biafra. Despite the sabotage and other setbacks suffered
from the Nigerian navy, it got itself prepared for the war and indeed successfully landed the soldiers of the
3MCDO on the Biafran beaches and bombarded the Biafrans until the foot soldiers were able to fix their feet on
the dry ground. Meanwhile, Biafra was very smart in opening another front in the war which compelled the
Federal forces to be thinned down in Bonny in order to defend the Midwestern region. The thinning down of the
Federal forces in Bonny enabled the Biafrans to launch a very heavy offensive in Bonny to retake the town but
their effort was again thwarted by the Nigerian navy. The activities of the Federal navy contributed immensely
to the victory of the Federal government because they secured Bonny and its oil installations, thereby making
the Federal government to be in control of the oil installations which was vital to the prosecution of the war."

References
Achuzia, J. O. G. (1986) Requiem Biafra (pp.62-63). Enugu: Fourth Dimension.

Adekunle, A. (2004) The Nigeria Biafra War Letters A Soldier’s Story (pp.91-103). Atlanta: Phoenix.

Asoluka, C. (Ed.) (2003) National Maritime Authority’s Compilation of Nigerian Maritime Laws” (Navy Act (CAP.288)
(Vol. 2, p. 420). Lagos: El-machi Publishers.

unbitchable:
I guess older documentation from Bonny palace can settle this back and forth. Different versions with different sources are a bit confusing.

Bonny and Opobo palace was ransacked during the Nigerian/Biafran war by Adaka Boro and the federal forces. I doubt you will find any of such older than Clarke's collection.

Oh, I wasted my time replying you. You are a well-known enemy of Ndi Igbo.

SlayerForever:
A Northern direction : Egypt.


Some of us should not be quick to disparage the Israel migration theory/thesis.

I will one day open a different thread looking at how highlighting Horton's theory.
He compared cosmology, religion and the rest. Maybe still balderdash. However, given the time, he drwe important perspective up till the split from Kogi and further dispersal. I am not sure, I cannot tell.
He started it from North Africa, from around Eggypt and those areas and examined how Mohamedism pursued them further south. he drew inference from how Islam also drove Fulanis down south until they embraced it and used it as a tool to conquer the Hausa and their vision to reach the Atlantic. It was interesting.

unbitchable:
I couldn't care less. I want to read the orthographical classification of Bonny language in its most basic form. And I can't doubt the authenticity of the CMS's documentation.
I have been following this thread and I discovered that a lot of people minds are made up on whose side he is on. Whatever the case, either side should put his own documents on the table, either ways, documents are acceptable as proof in the Court of law.

Probably the earliest collection of the language by Clarke 1841-5
You can see Bonny names for Man, Woman, etc..

Igboid:
You know Pa EA Iduwe in his book on Agbor history talked about this same split of the IGBO people at Kogi and the branch of Igbo that formed Ika migrating through Kogi to Ondo and then to Edo and ended up in their present location where they met a proto Edoid people called the Oza people who they displaced.
It's interesting. He even have evidence to proof their ancestors were once resident in Yorubaland during this journey.

We have alot to do in unravelling the true story of Igbo speaking people.

Concerning those Igbo sounding towns in Cross River, I doubt they still speak Igbo, there is no way they could be that isolated from other Igbos and retain their Igbo language. Look at Igbide.
I think those ones are lost.

Another interesting ones are the Igbo villages in Abi LGA. You have names like Igbo-Ekureku, Igbo- Imabana, etc.
Yet these people are not Igboid speaking today, they speak Ekoid languages.
I can't understand what the hell happened there. And they bear Igbo names with no meaning in their current language.
I once met one of them in my working place, his surname was "Igwe". I asked him what it means in his Igbo-Ekureku language, he says it has no meaning, that his grandfather told him that it meant "chief".

A lot Happened in these places in the past. We lost and gained.
This is why only language can be used to determine who is Igbo and who isn't. If you lose your Igbo language, you stop being Igboe, irrespective of your origin stories.

True, the Igbo Imabana people are Legbos, although they bear Igbo names.
The same thing happened in some areas in Biakpan. They speak a different language but they bear Igbo names.
The ones that did not lose this characteristic are the Orrings, especially the Effiums. They bear Igbo names but still retained two languages for most part (Igbo and K'orring. They will literarily behead you if you remotely suggest that they are not Igbos.

Igboid:
Ututu is not an offshoot of Arochukwu.
They are independent group of their own, but as expected, they are related to Arochukwu.

I have a hypothesis that the Igbo came to our current location through a Northern direction.
But at Kogi, there was a split. One group took the direction of Edo and the other took the direction of Benue and then Cross River.
The groups that took Edo direction gave rise to the Indigenous Igbo tribes in Anioma, those who took Benue direction ended up in Ikwo, Ezza,Izzi. Those who took Cross River direction ended up forming Bende, Arochukwu, Ututu,Ohafia, Abiriba.
Others moved straight from Kogi to Anambra River area and formed the Nri and Nsukka groups.
All these groups now kept pushing down until they all met each other again within Abia and Imo state.
Kept pushing until they reached the coasts (Bonny).
I believe during these journey, many Igbos were left along the way, and they settled with their non Igbo neighbors and lost their Igbo language.

When you listen to Abiriba, Bende history, you hear of origin from Cross River direction, yet the name of their ancestors were all Igbos.
For example the ancestor of Abiriba was called "Nnachioke"
So I came to the conclusion that these ancestors were Igbos on the move who had to pass through non Igbo territories, settled amongst them, acquired wives and friends from there who joined in their journey, until they settled to where they are currently stationed. They also in typical Igbo manner acquired cultural practices of these people.


That's my rational explanation of the Igbo migration and the irreconcilable stories of ancestors who were said to be Edo, Cross River, Igala , etc, yet all bore Igbo names and have their ancestors speaking Igbo.

You know Horton proposed a THEORY about an Israeli and southward migration of Igbos due to "Mohammedism" and then when they split with Igala and then moved down south. The split from Kogi and further dispersal is especially interesting now that you mentioned it.
In his thesis, he examined some worldviews, characters and religions, and then the belief system. I think he was one of the first people in the 1860s who started this Israeli migration wahala that some of us have carried on our heads. LOL.

Talking about Cross-Rivers. You are right, some of those names are replicated in Cross Rivers in some way.
Like Bende being Bendi, There is an Ebiriba in Cross Rivers along the river, Ebem, features well along those rivers (Ebem Ohafia), there are names like Ibibia, Itu Mbuso, Onuinyang, etc in Bende, Arochukwu, Ohafia, Afikpo areas.

I am curious to know what those ones in the heart of Cross Rivers speak, Especially the Etiti Ulo close to the way to Cameroon.

Alabo7978:
Let me reply you one last time, and not the other clowns.

Like I said, In ijoh, the clans NEVER EVER CALL THEMSELVES IJOH because of the strong sense of Independence.
When ijo brags to us that we descended from them, we drag them via other things.
I have mentioned that to you using Greece as an example but you still dey drag us round like nursery 2 pikin.
Within us, we answer our closest ancestors call. Even as a Nembeian(ogbolomabiri, bassambiri, obioku etc) we rival ourselves. Ogbolomabiri always rub on the face of bassambiri that they descended from them, and bassambiri will blast back That they are autonomous, bassambiri will do same to Obioku, obioku will blast back being autonomous, same goes all round) there are always rivalry even in one house.
Even now now now, those kingdoms in Nembe can band under Nembe in a clan clash and fight with the ijohs.
But IN GENERAL, WE ENTER ONE UMBRELLA.
IN GENERAL, WE ARE ALL IJAWS.
ask me again, ode.

This book states otherwise. This is the first dedicated book on the history of Brass written in 1906. Ijohs were clearly mentioned as a separate group. This book clearly stated the difference between Ijoh, Nembe (Alepe) and even Brass.

Igboid:
The Ututus as you would expect are sad about the whole thing.
But there is nothing anyone can do about it now.

If anything, we took Arochukwu from these people too.
So it kind of balances itself out
There shouldn't be bad blood.

It is what it is.

I thought Ututu is in Arochukwu LGA. is there another Ututu?

Not to derail or anything, you could still see Igbo communities in the heart of Cross Rivers. Not even at the border o with Aro r at the intersection of Akwa-Ibom.

From the naming style, it is probably an offshoot of Arochukwu or Abam or Ohafia people but mostly the first two. Most of their settlements come as Nde/Ndi/Ndu/Ndo

See another one on the border with Cameroon. Its called Etiti Ulo? LOL

I wonder what these people speak today. If they do not speak Igbo then of course they are lost. LOL
CC Bkayy, Slayerforever, Igboid, Fejoku
The names< Igbofia, Nde Aliche, Nde Akwara, IfuNkpa (Nkpas or Mkpas are in Bende), Akamkpa, Ndiro, Orimini-Mba
Topic for another thread.

Igboid:
Of course, Igbos are masters of adaptation and reproduction.
We copy and assimilate aspects of other people culture we find beneficial easily.
The Colonials recognized that in one of the extracts posted here.

Asimini proved himself a real Igbo man. Quickly jettisoning the Igbo Okpara system for the alien "Wari" system that had proven more efficient for survival in the riverine terrain.

Very impressive.

I can help you out here.
LOL

Alabo7978:
Funny to you, you think I am purely ijo, but I am Nembe.
In ijo, we do not see ourselves as ijo and even most times we fight and quarell amongst ourselves.
Many Nembeians have some reasons to dislike the ijo, and ijo will have reason to dislike the Nembe man.
Go motor pack for bayelsa Dem dey fight, and we Nembeians mock their intonations because they pronounce jump as zump. While them they see us as proud and usually wealthy.
Same with Greece, all the city states like Athens, Sparta, Crete, Corinth ,aegena, Argos , Rhodes quarell within themselves and live by there city states but when Xerxes of Persia came, they knew they were together GREEKS at large.

Though we fight and argue amongst ourselves and call each other names but when there is a foreign invasion, like the Greeks we will stand and repel, then after we will continue with our malice.
You bkayy, Ekealterego SlayerForever Igboid biafrarep etc are all foreign Invaders.
I even carefully searched on baikie works, and he links Bonny to the other ijoh clans. Now I know y'all were just filtering things.
You see the numbering system?
We Nembeians count
Kio
Mai
Trai
Neene
Sono
Sondio
Sonomai
Etc

You see the resemblance with all other ijo counting?

Even the screenshot showed igbos were a secondary language.
Even this screenshot talked about the German doctor.
(Read carefully this time) I won't stress myself again to pick out points.
The igbos have been known to walk up and down and not staying in their place.
In ijo land I am a Nembe man, and if an ijoh man annoys me, I go burst him head, but when an ijo man is bullied by a foreign Invaders or when a foreign Invaders bullies any other clan, we all we assemble.
That is the beauty of we the ijo Ethnic nation!

Bro, quit lying, that excerpt is not from Baikie.. I have Baikie's book with me. They only quoted a portion of Baikie. That book is written by an Ijaw man. Why Una dey lie?

Putindbutt:
You don change mouth
We sabi you people, no be today.

No, Isseke is on the other side of the river to Ashaka.

There have also been arguments about the two places.

Igboid:
You know the stories of Idu n'oba was rife in Igboland.
The Europeans made Bini popular and everyone wanted to be part of that popularity.
Olauda trying to add Bini flavor to his Isseke history tells you all you need to know about Ikwerre, Etche, Ogba, etc Bini origin stories.

People were trying too hard to be seen to be attached to Bini and so crafted irrational Bini fantasy stories.

^
LOL. I did not want to derail the thread with Bini or involve Bini in the stories when we were discussing Brass. In the book, written in 1906 about the Lower Niger Tribe, do you know some of the write-ups attributed Brass and Nembe to be partly discovered by some Bini warlords. I think from one of the elders consulted to narrate the story.

However, in another book. SHORT HISTORY OF BRASS AND ITS PEOPLE by Adebiyi Tepowa, in 1907.He claimed that one of the section of Brass was founded by Obollo. Well, that is also an interesting angle because Abureni, Kugbo, Ogbia, which are all spoken in Brass and Nembe (These are like Ibibio languages) are also kind of like Obolo.
I guess all these people Ogbia people are what the main Ijaw boat dwelling people are using to reach out to Akwa-Ibom.
Ijaws have discovered that if these people start finding their own collective nationality, Ijaw will be competing with Isoko in terms of Population and this scares the shiiit out of them and so they acted quickly.

If I upload this fine Bini story eh, some parts of Brass will leave IYC and join Great Benin Descendants. LOL

BKayy:
No, Isseke in Ihiala LGA of Anambra state.
The only part that is off from History is the Bini part

Okay, it describes the geography well.