₦airaland Forum

JANK23H:
You have succeeded in affirming what I've just said.

Did you even read?

The languages were clear. They collected samples of other languages from people of those areas clearly.

More evidence!

Alabo7978:
JANK23H do not mind them, I know what you're talking about.
Many people in the region around Igbo land were refered to as igbos. Even in the military era in Nigeria, the northern people use to believe everybody in the former eastern region we're ibos, just as we believed everyone in the north were HAUSA, or everyone in the west was Yoruba.
Heck the ibos themselves see efiks, ibibio, and every one with that sound of the language as calabar people.
Same mistakes most these white men did
Pluto9

Stop lying and bring evidence. If everyone was written as Igbos, how come all the samples of language evidence were separated by Clarke in 1800s
Slayerforever, see the language inside Bonny. Are these not Igbo language? 9pluto.

SlayerForever:
Total lies. Not even during regional government were non Igbos ever called Igbos.

This is another account by Horton in a different chapter stating the dialects of Igbo written in 1866-68
Slayerforever, look at Bonny carefully written here.
9japluto
Bkayy
Igboid
Eastlink

JANK23H:
I've explained on several occasions that most NigerDelta tribe as it still is today were regarded as Igbos.Stop acting like you don't know this.

Brother, do not be clever by half, all our uploads clearly stated the differences in languages. What they stated was that most of the groups were related or descended from the Igbos. All the books meticulously stated the difference and collected specimens of the languages.

Alabo7978:
He didn't say so, your white man said so.

And by the way, the only reason ndoki even have some ties with Bonny was because Asimini married off his granddaughter Kambasa off to an ndoki man to Foster trade relations with the hinterlands, Kambasa didn't like that place, and once her father died she returned back to okolo-ama leaving her husband behind.
Your white man didn't even mention that because he didn't know how to communicate with the locals in the dialect so he just gather few facts to HURRIEDLY arrange a report or thesis.
If not for Kambasa marrying an ndoki man, the few IBO freemen wouldn't have been free.

Okoloma existed before any human dwelled in Bonny. Stop your fables. OKoloma is as old as Ndoki.
Another fable, Tales by the moonlight. Where is this written? We come with fact, you come with myths with no receipts.
See the difference.
Slayerforever, Eastlink (see your Alinsaw Egbema), Newage98, see your Ekpahia (Ekpeye), Bkayy, Igboid.
Let us make reference to a colonial map of Igboland.

You can see Ubani at the bottom

Alabo7978:
I am not being clever you dunce. The British were the ones who changed alot of pronunciation and spellings due to their tongue.
Okolo-ama it is, okolo-ama in ndoki was the camp settlement of the okoloama people. Asimini wedded his daughter to an ndoki man to Foster trade relations with them and the place she settled with some of Asimini men was called or named Okoloama after them but the British came and corrupted it.
Same way N'enu-ugwu was corrupted to Enugu.
Infact many names were corrupted. Stop being stupid.
OKOLOMA is okolo-ama.
If it was Igbo, it would have been NOTED ON THE DOCUMENT, BUT THE DOCUMENTS CLEARLY SHOWED THEY WERE DIFFERENT DIALECT.

Brother, quit the lies, Okoloma in Ndoki is one of their oldest settlements. Ndoki was settled way before Bonny was inhabited
How did you know? Did you read the book? You took half of the excerpt from my upload to foment your theories. Okay, let's agree that "Okolo ama" is the name. Why is the king in the same book state that he and his people are from the "Igbo" country? In the same series of letters, he asked that an Igbo bible be created which Rev. Taylor and Crowther went ahead to create?

Do not worry, when I have the time, I will upload the full letter or story.

SlayerForever:
If Horton was not bias in his report you may give us some relevant text from his works.

Horton will cause the Ijaws high BP because according to him, even Nimbe and Brass were Igbos. The reason why I am avoiding Horton is because all the issues and research can generate 100 other topics and make us lose focus. they are intertwined but I will try.

SlayerForever:
Please what page uploaded this

You can find it on Opobo, Ndoki and Abia people's page. However, if you want to access this quicker, go to Igbo history since 3000 BC page on Facebook.
You will meet all these Igbos from Benue, Cross Rivers. Anioma are also super active.
The irony though is that Igbos from River state created the group and it is the most successful group on social media that is focused on Igbo history so far.

9Pluto:
Are these claims for real!!!
I am afraid this conversation will continue exposing a lot of fallacies.

Please, kindly let me have this literature so I can post it if you guys won't.
Thanks.

If not that I want to add sources that are as neutral as possible in this thread and from writers who explored the Niger first hand.
If I present the works of Beale Africanus Horton, in 1861 here, the Ijo people would have committed suicide since.

9Pluto:
Noted bro.
I have already asked him to reference the book.

.
Even if his life depended on it, he can't.

In case you are interested for your own research. Here is it. Baikie worked on both the exploration and on resolving ambiguities. Many places and people had multiple names as given by multiple people.

"Narrative of an Exploring Voyage Up the Rivers Kwóra and Bínue (Commonly Known as the Niger and Tsádda) in 1854. with a Map and Appendices. Pub. with the Sanction of Her Majesty's Government." By William Balfour Baikie

9Pluto:
Let me start by commending you for posting an interesting addition to this discourse. At first look, my literature is older than this one you post. Meanwhile, it would be necessary for you to mention the date and name of this publication for context. From my studies both Crowther and Jaja came after Crow had left Africa. Though Crowther was birthed earlier than Jaja.

Your sorts of proof the igbo claim that Ubani/Ibani is an Igbo dialect.

Crow explicitly stated that Bonny people were Igbos and Brass. While acknowledging the presence or existence of Igbo, Breech, Brass, Quaw, Ottam, Appa slaves.

Let us also remember also why both Crowther and Jaja as slaves ended up on the African continent.

Once more kindly names your source so we can look for more information to enrich or discourse.
Thanks.

Don't commend him. Do you believe that Ijoh can bring anything original.. He stole it!

I uploaded it in a thread, that was just a section of the upload. I uploaded from my own very book.

That was just a section of the book.
Tell him to reference the book.
It was in the same book that King Pepple admitted he was of Igbo descent. in the book Crowther wrote alone, it was also clear in a letter Pepple wrote to the crown in London to bring Christianity. Pepple specifically mandated Crowther in coalition with a Rev at Onitsha (I will remember his name later) to create an Igbo Bible.

Now, why will the king of Bonny request for a church and Bible in Igbo language?

Alabo7978:
Would you then explain why pepple and crowther maintained that Bonny speaks the Bonny dialect instead of the Igbo dialect or any other dialect.
From your explanations, it entails Bonny was some sort of Lagos in those days with multiple tribes(I agree) but who owned Bonny?
We can't deny the fact that the yorubas owns Lagos, and Yoruba is spoken there even by other people.
This document from crowther and pepple should tell clearly that Bonny were owned by the okoloama people who spoke the okoloama dialect which is THE SAME EXACT LANGUAGE SPOKEN IN CALABARI.
This isn't hard for Bleep sake.
Lagos is what Bonny is in those days, and just as Lagos is owned by the Yoruba people, Bonny was known as okolo-ama by the ORIGINAL INDIGENES.

Stop being clever by half. What is written there is OKOLOMA.

That upload is from MY BOOK, written by Baikie and Crowther, I uploaded it first!

Baikie was constructing names given to same same people by different tribes and in this section, he was even talking about Igbo subgroup. He was trying to resolve AMBIGUITY.

OKOLOMA is still in NDOKI TODAY!

Say it with me, OKOLOMA

ThickSharon123:
In summary, you guys are suffering from post civil war syndrome. And here's the analysis.

"Post civil war syndrome": a mental construct which makes a particular groupf of people become paranoid with every little information they get from the opposition to continue the trend they were set in.

This is to say, when the Nigerian Navy were instructed to prevent Igbos from having sea, becuase that was some of the means they could get milk and proteinous diet. The Ijaws found it their responsibility to do the same as soon as the Igbos got back to Nigeria.

They now find it their responsibility to still prevent the Igbos from having that access, because they believe this is still the civil war.

What you guys need is some form of reorientation, because living like this would only place you people below poverty and anguish. So, dear one, stop following the mental disabilities of your forefathers, you can change the trend and set a pace for yourself.

The guy you are wasting this long post on is from Bayelsa. He doesn't have any say when it comes to this discussion.

The unification have been going on for the past few years now. Read this, this is a joint brotherly reunification of the highest

You can always tell when people of low intelligence grace any platform. They will just dumb down the whole engagements and reduce it to toutish ramblings.

Let the the person up there finish quoting himself with his two monikers, I will upload more.

RobbStark:
Stay pained man, I will show you your forefathers in chains right here in bonny whenever you want to see it.
No be too much talk.
Continue fooling yourselves thinking you are winning wen the real winners are already in the lands and you lots are paying rents.
Continue

Here are different accounts.

I don't think history supports your assertions.. History recorded that you guys were wild, rude and uncivilised.

These are from two different accounts.

You were pirates with no land. who dwell on canoes.

christistruth01:
With all Humility

I came down to your intellectual level

Don't let me drag you please

If I start being intellectual with you

You will flee this thread

The fact that Mkpuru Miri has Sabotaged your thinking doesn't mean the whole World is like you

Stop taking Mkpuru Miri

Thanks for the humorous display of clownery.

You can now take your soggy bottom to the dry jokes section where your colleagues await with open arms.

Close the door behind you.

christistruth01:
Heard IPOB are now Claiming Ijebu Igbo , Ilaje Ugbo, Idumota and Alaba (Ala Aba) Markets in Lagos as part of their new Igbo Idu Empire

Can someone please kindly Confirm that it is fake News.

Thank you in advance

In what world is that? You can always tell an individual with a low IQ Apart. Look at how odd your comments look from the academically-backed intellectual interaction we are having here.

How do your parents feel knowing that they birthed an Onuku?

9Pluto:
The Nembe people need to be researched. I noticed ijo/ijaw is part of Brass L.G.A, so it makes sense to claim that Brass people are ijaw.

Nooo Nwanne, read again, Ijaw makes up ¼ of Brass. Read the classifications again. They are just a minority part of Brass... Cross River people which we the Igbos call "Mmogh" make up a significant part of Brass.. There are books acknowledging the influence that changed their language slightly.

GreatBoss:
For the Ijaws,
Idafire, Graysons, Kinematics, Sageb SaintBishop tutudez, Pere,Ijoh.

My great Ijaw people.



For the Ibos
Slayerforever, Ekealterego, Bkayy, AlexBells Igboid, Idiko, Biafrarep,
Mancoconut.

Come and frustrate here.
Landlocked dot circle Biafra Republic people.

Nna stop spamming my mentions. Fight for your rights, respect your boundaries but don't kill innocent foreigners and dance on their grave..

Be different from your ancestors who were homeless water-dwelling pirates.

This is a record from the 1800s, are you trying to prove these observers right?

9Pluto:
Nice start and thanks for the reference. It is interesting that all the records I have seen has recent references. I will like to read Alagoa's record and more especially find out when the term was first used to describe a group of people.

I saw a online account mentioning ijaw languages and I am confused how an ethnic group has several languages rather than dialects.

I will be ready to do a thread when once I have gathered enough data.

There is a slight argument in the language but I thought i should follow the reference to favours the Ijos. On the Bayelsan government website, they treated Nembe as a separate language all together. However, I went out of my way to seek a classification that favours the Ijos so they won't be here crying. LOL

9Pluto:
I am a student of history and was planning to stop here but since you have dared me, I have now taken it upon myself to expose a whole lot of lies in the Niger-delta, including on-going attempts to claim Akwa-ibom shoreline as ijaw land.

As far as arguments persists, ALL the places there has been claim of igboness, have obvious igbo traits (language, culture, physique etc), I am not sure the reverse is always true.

I am sure if this kind of document existed there wouldn't have been need for the senseless bloodbath about who were the owners of ogbe-ijoh.

I am researching to find out who exactly is Ijaw(what makes someone ijaw), when was the term first used? What is the relationship between ijaw in rivers and Delta/Bayelsa? Is there an Ijaw language, if yes does someone from Kalabari, Ogbia or ibani understand someone from Sagbama?

Remember, FACTS not fiction. Thanks to European historical documents and internet. Shalom.

@Ekealterego, please I would appreciate literatures you can volunteer.

Well, for you to understand first, and untangle the whole thing, you have to understand linguistic classifications and understand where these people belong to.

ijaw or Izon only exist in 4 LGAs in Bayelsa. I believe we have mentioned it but not in a dedicated thread. Ogbia is not an Ijaw language, Ogbia is a Cross Riverian people. They are closer to the Ibibios, Efik etc in terms of origin based on their language. They call them Delta central of the Cross Riverian languages.

You can open a thread, "Who are the Ijaws"

Now, to make the thing easy for you.

In Bayelsa, there are 3 main language groups/people.

The ijoids (South Izon/southern Ijaw, Izon etc.)

2. The Edoids (e.g Epie, Attisa, Engenni [Known as the Oguan), Urhobo, Isoko).

3. The Cross-River people (Ogbia, Abureni etc. )

These are the people in Bayelsa and here is their classification and LGAs

Brass
Abureni; Cross-River language/people
Southeast Ijo; IJo
Ogbia; Cross-River language/people
Kugbo; Cross-River language/people

Ekeremor
Izon; Ijo

Kolokuma/Opokuma

Izon; Ijo

Nembe
Abureni; Cross-River people/language
Southeast Ijo; Ijo
Izon (Ijaw)

Ogbia
Abureni; Cross-River language.
Southeast Ijo;
Odual; Cross-River language
Ogbia; Cross-River language
Oruma; Ijo

Sagbama
Biseni; Ijo
Isoko; Edoid/Edo
Izon; Ijo
Ogbah; Igbo/Igboid
Okodia; inland Ijo/Ijo
Urhobo; Urhobo/Edoid/Edo

Southern Ijaw

Southeast Ijo; Ijo
Izon; Ijo

Yenagoa
Engenni; Edo/Edoid
Epie; Edo/Edoid
Izon; Ijo
Ekpeye; Igboid

Reference.
Blench, Roger (2019). An Atlas of Nigerian Languages (4th ed.). Cambridge: Kay Williamson Educational Foundation.

Bayelsa – History & Culture – Bayelsa State Government". Retrieved on 2021-29-11 from https://bayelsastate.gov.ng/our-history/

Champneys:
Totally agree, their time has come and gone.

Nah agidi remain.

Go to YouTube of Nigerian Music released in the past two years. ONLY TWO SONGS have more streams than "Reason with me"!

They have a massive fan base outside of Nigeria. Most people based in Nigeria are completely ignorant of the fanbase outside of Nigeria.

AlexBells:
I try to learn as much as possible but the challenge here is that we are in a middle of conflict and at the end of the day it would require a lot more than the truth, for someone like me, you would bear me witness that a lot of Igbos are really furious about the situation and so do a lot of people from the other side,

Humanity demands that we try to understand most part and while these whole facts is quite important, it won't make much of a difference If these whole things are not fashioned into a practical government and a real ability to strike.

I don't believe in Nigeria's state creations, most of the people here on nairaland are faceless, I'm not, so most times I'm mild and often surface to care for all, and like I told you I'm an aspiring politician and I don't see Nigeria dividing anything soon,

I want to build a network that would have political and Military implications while Nigeria exists.

These are my concerns, like you now you may not be using your real profile here, but I use my real profile becuase I feel that this is the best place you actually meet new people in the Nigerain space.

We honestly may not launch Military options while Nigeria exists, I followed the link you shared even before now, I had read through it, the fact is that I'm already out there and I had been warned to be careful what I say, Opobo would be integrated to Igbo mainland while Nigeria exist, I don't pray for Nigeria to divide but if it regrettably happens, Bonny and others would get a Refendum.

I want real time and pragmatic approach, let's be on ground there for real

They are on the mainland already. They are things you don reveal on Nairaland. It's now left for you to work in silence, while also stating facts and sticking to historical truths.

AlexBells:
It is not like I'm not aware of the reality but the fact is this, I'm a young politician and like Sun Tzu said, "any animal with blood in its vain and horns would fight" and the "best victory are those won without a fight" if they give us no option we would launch a military action.

People would assume me a demon if I go about preaching confrontation, if we care about the truth, Bonny would get a Refendum or other measures of settlement including dividing the lands but Opobo can't be negotiated becuase it is Igboland in full.

I try to be diplomatic while at it, I have mentors and people from not just Nigeria monitoring my moves, if they feel that I'm a blood thirsty and unreasonably dangerous fellow, my support base would drop and in the event of confrontation, I would not get suply or even international support, honestly if they prove too stubborn, then Military option is inevitable

I understand, the first way is to arm yourself with knowledge. Let your intentions be driven by truth and fact.

Don't go down to their level where you will be pushed to talk like their drunk illiterate kins. Arm yourself with knowledge.

Go to this group right now, see the discussions we are having, from historical facts from 320 years ago!!! We have the truth. Established from unadulterated history from neutral people.
Go into the thread here on nairaland, read, digest, see the facts. Download them, understand them. See that knowledge is as important as anything you could imagine. These are the proven, written down historical facts every Igbo family should have had in their house.

This was the last debate laden with full excerpts from history.
https://www.nairaland.com/6871524/true-identity-bonny-opobo-people

AlexBells:
Who is Wike, he is a fly that think himself a bird, who is laying claim of the Igalas, I said they are our allies, they had been our neighbours all along, there is always cordial relationship whenever we have boundaries with them

If Wike chose to be Benin he would be deported to Benin, Ikwerre is Part of AlaIgbo so any of them that want to leave for Benin shall be facilitated.

If Amechi is using our head what is your problem with that, is it your head?, did the Buhari not use your head?

I see your thoughts are coming together a bit. I always knew that you were just innocently unaware about the nature of the issues and the dynamics of the relationship we have with some of these people.
Add this to your burning passion and many times emotions, this was not a good mix at first.

Here is my advice moving forward, there are groups, and Igbo groups with people very much aware of what is happening.

Here you will meet people from Opobo, Bonny, Igbos in the SS. One of the most successful Igbo groups in terms of history was opened by two Igbos from Rivers.
Join these groups on Facebook. Search for them, you will gain so much knowledge.

Igboid:
I don't think it's time to get the proud Igbo families in Bonny and Opobo involved yet.
Those lots have risked alot to retain their presence there.
We can't get them involved until we have gotten our house in order.

Because if the Ijaw calls on their Hausa Fulanis facilitators now, we will leave those lots exposed like happened to people of Oyigbo.

I have always maintained that the real challenge to achieving Igbo nation is to first and foremost take Political control of SE.
We have governors who have no interest in these things, who are not even aware of it, whose interest is all about looting as much as possible before their tenure expires. We have a toothless Ohanaeze Ndiigbo, who are only interested in sharing of Ghana must go bags during elections.
These are things we must rectify before we go and expose these people to unnecessary danger.
You saw how Umahi went to PH to laugh with With Wike after he massacred Obiigbo people and nothing happened.
I'd say you should not invite any family here, NL is not as annonymous as some of us think.


We haven't gotten

Please, edit my original post that you quoted. Please, edit my quote.

There is actually no need inviting anyone. You are very correct.

9Pluto:
Considering the type of dementia I am seeing on this thread it is not advisable to invite anyone unless the person would be talking anonymously. Already, I have even been directed to watch some videos to backup this findings.

I am ready to do a live debate with anyone intrested, unfortunately i have not seen any reasonable counter argument aside from infantile tantrums.

Your counsel is right on point. It was a wrong move exposing the family name. I will heed to your advice.
Please, edit my quote. I have edited my original post already.

gold360:
As an ijaw man from bonny, what I will say to the writer of this fabricated write up is simple. If you say bonny and opobo belongs to the igbos no problem. DM me let's meet up at Creek road water side jetty in port Harcourt. I will personally pay your boat transport fare to bonny and opobo,so you can go there and tell these ijaw people the nonsense you've posted here. If you come out alive from the beating you will receive from their hands for insulting their ijaw origin. I will leave nairaland !
#RUBBISH

What is "fabricated"? Written history from 1699? History from ethnographical works and memoirs 1699 and 1820-40s then 1860s then 1888 and another set of accounts 1906?

Please, I know Nigerian education is terrible but please please please, don't disgrace yourself willfully in the open.

We didn't write that history, those accounts were written way before our great grand fathers were born from neutral accounts.

I will try to invite one or two people from the Bonny family here soon.

cheruv:
Please I'd like you to send me the books you posted your excerpts from so that i can use them for a research...
Here's my mail: cheruvskiy@gmail.com

Hi bro, because some of these are old scanned books, it may exceed the limits of data an email can carry. I will find a way to write down the reference list.
Luckily, many of them are on worldcat, archive.com and even some on Google books.
Some are scanned photocopies, especially on Google books.

Some are on Jstor but I think you will need subscribed login or institutional login.

ThickSharon123:
Okay, I understand. But we Igbos need to know we were born with respect, and pride and we do not come to their level of hate. For me, even if my mom is Igbo, I'm proud to be called an Igbo woman. And I will do anything to foster the unity.

We should simply focus on bringing the Igbo kin together and showing them the love that we were all born through our chi is still present. The chi, which connects us and stop wallowing in the filth of the opposing tribes which try to differentiate, for the reason I can't fathom till today.

I like threads like this, which brings facts and justifies it. No exchanging words, and calling aboriginals of the land slaves, like some people do here. How would an Igbo majority which have overturned the language to strictly Igbo's be slaves in the same land as you.

Here how I feel it went during the civil war:

The Igbos were found majorly around the coastal waters with their neighbours such as Ijaws and the Ibibios. But when the civil war broke out, the naval forces lined the coast and prevented anything Igbo from coming near the coast, becuase if they believed you were iGbo you were good as dead.

This gave the added advantage of the Izon people to come into such lands, changing what they wanted and making it their own. I'll like to call it a subtle way to conquer and acculturalize. The Igbos had no choice than to quickly accept the tribe which they felt safe, but still kept who they are secretly.

This reminds me of the Aztecs (or one red Indian tribe) of México. When the Spaniards came into the land, they wanted them to be Christians by force and do away with their traditional worship. But the Aztecs found a subtle way to satisfy their colonialist, they simply took the Catholic worship but imbibed most of the ritual there with their traditional rituals. So, unknowingly for the Spanish conquerors they were still worshiping their goddess, although it seemed they were worshiping or holding reverence to Mary.

Yes, I agree.
You see, sometimes due to the nature of places like this, you cannot bring some facts in isolation.
Like you cannot establish some facts about Opobo, without talking about Bonny and the history of Okrika and New Calabar.
As you can see, we have all played fair by digging up painstakingly digging up history all these while and basing our arguments on truth rather out of desperation by lying.

...but you see these other guys, they don't even play fair. You know that they tried with resources and everything to curse identity crisis at Ndoki because they see that the history of Ndoki and Bonny can be linked also, especially regarding the first settlers. They even paid one or two hungry people in Ndoki in Abia state to join their meetings and went as far as going to their king's palace.

Mind you, Ndoki in Abia state is as Igbo as anything.

OfoIgbo:
Immediately I saw Alagoa and 1980, I knew it was gonna be ajambene

He thinks he is clever.

ThickSharon123:
Okay, thank you. Then let's stop adding them to the Igbo nation. I believe we have to focus to our brothers and sisters in Bonny/Opobo and the likes. Okrirka is out of it for me.

Yes, me personally do not even add them at all..
Sometimes, some just flex these muscles to show that we actually know or could dig up the history when these people who make it a sports to look for our territories and plant Igbophobic propaganda all around.
Go to Facebook groups and see the kind of hate the Ijaws plant within the minorities and the onslaught of landgrabbing.