₦airaland Forum

ThickSharon123:
I'll like you to help me out with something, I just watched a video of Okrirka people, perhaps they have history with the Igbos, I don't think they are Igbos. The language isn't the same thing and even the culture. So, it wouldn't be applicable to add them. What do you think?

Okirika is not ethnically Igbo today. Many of their quarters are of Igbo ancestors, you can obviously tell that their ancestors and some quarters still maintain some of those traditions.
Even Talbot, mentioned that their Elders stated that they came from Afam in Ndoki.
However, those areas around New Calabar, "Kalabari and Okirika" were like towns with quarters from different places. Many were originally Ibibiod, some Ijoh and some Igbos.. It was at an intersection between these 3 main groups and of course with some groups with almost functionally extinct languages today.

I will give you example, Ateke Tom gave Wike chieftaincy title today, and you can see the traditional chief attire the ardoned him with.

Putindbutt:
Ijoh are more relevant as they are the owners of Bonny. Ijohs are not slaves, rather, they are slaves merchants who served as middle men to European agents. The Aros are not exclusively ibos but a mix of both ibo and ibibio origin. The Aros are well known for slave raiding who raided and sold ibos to the ijohs who in turn delivered them in exchange to the Europeans agents. The Aros established a Confederacy over the interior ibo dwellers. They also sold a large number of ibos who were regarded as sacrifices or dedicated to the gods as punishment for their transgressions, markets and settlements were raided to keep a consistent supply of slaves. The Aros had treaties/slave trading agreements with the ijoh coastal dwellers as well as the calabar merchants who operated at Calabar port, which served as another port for ibo slaves. Bonny & Elem Kalabari are both ijaw towns that served as slave ports through which the Aros supplied a large number of ibo slaves.

Brother, I have uploaded at least 10 docs from 1699 to 1840s showing the origin and trade relations in Bonny. Not one accounted Bonny as having Ijo origin but rather Igbo, all of them!!

No, Ijohs did not hold sway in Bonny nor Old Calabar, rather Ijohs were SLAVES as well.. The Ijohs were subservient to the Aros. I have uploaded countless books too with nature of the interactions between Ijoh and Aros too.

The areas around New Calabar and Krike were first multi-ethnic.

Also, if you read well, you will see the three different accounts from 1823 and 1840 and 1841 showing the King Amachree and King People were both Igbos.. They said this by themselves.

I know it is hard to unlearn years of belief in the Ijawcentric Algoa's account but we have known what the true history stated long ago. It is all there in neutral history books from Neutral accounts.

SlayerForever:
Some of these intellectual property needs to be trademarked.

Wakrike/Kirike is simply Nwa creek or creek. An Igbo product.


Originally forwarded by Sir Ekealterego on this day 29th of November, 2021 and shall remain in his name, devoid of forgery or distortion or theft.

Just to put my evidence more forward.

Kirike or krike (how wakirike/okirika people, call their language or themselves) is the same as in the older English word for Creek or the French word.

You know what, Exactly how it is called in Dutch. The Dutch call Creeks, Kreke but sounds like "Kirike".

I have uploaded the names.
So, Wa "kirike", means "Child of the creeks"
Note, most of these coastal places had European names from Lagos to Warri to Calabar.

Igboid:
It makes sense.
Wakirike and Wa-creek.
Good observation.
Considering how Pepple turned to Perekule and Eighty Bucks turned to Etibo, Wa-creek being the original word for Wakirike is not far fetched at all.

Lol.
I think the earliest record of Pepple by Barbot in 1699 was Pepprell. This is on record.

Here is an Excerpt:

...We had again a long talk with the king and Pepprell, his brother, concerning the rates of our goods and his customs. This Pepprell was a sharp black and a mighty talking black, perpetually making objections against something or other".

I believe Pepprell is a British/Irish/Germanic name.

There are still records of Pepple and Pepprell family recorded in the US.

Putindbutt:
Bonny is a mix tribe. The culture and titles are ijohs. Slave trade brought ibos from the interior to Bonny. Mbanaso was installed as a king by his ijoh master. Olukumi have been igbonized even though they aren't ibos. The large concentration of ibos in a given area gives them undue advantage over the less people minorities.
The fact remains that the abolishment of slave trade in 1801 gave ibos the leeway as a freed slaves in Bonny, prior to 1801, ibos were the largest supplier of slaves. It was for purpose of slavery that brought ibos to Bonny.

What brought Ijohs there... Same accounts showed that Ijohs were brought as slaves there, including the Cross-River people like the "Otams".
The reason why Igbos were numerous was because they were the majority in terms of population from that area. They outnumbered every other group numerically by almost 10 to 1.

Again, the Aros, and Abams (who are Igbos) were prolific slave merchants.

However, most of the books that talked about the first settlers traced it to Igbos.

Igboid:
Madam. Ibu ogbu oge.
Ijiro Okwu.

There is a theory I have, but just from historical observation, how their name changed over time. I mean the Wakirike people.

Barbot recorded the name as Creke or something like that. (I will check the right spelling later) but it started with C, and one could pronunce it as "Creeke" or "Creek".
I feel Kirike is a corruption of the word "Creek" or a Portuguese or Latin base meaning of the word "Creek".

The dialectical word for "Nwa" in that area is "Wa". I think that's why they are called, "Wakirike". "Child of the Creeks".

I just hazard that guess, but a logical one from the records of how the names were recorded. Just like how parts of New Calabar became "Kalabari"

N.B. This is my personal observation.

ChinenyeN:
I will not get into a discussion of attrition with you all. Go and read the bibliographies.

You have NONE!!
There are no memoirs between that period written about visits to Bonny, Calabar, Kalabari.

Igboid:
Enyia write in standard Igbo.

And you know what? I understand Ngwa 100%, in fact no Igbo man from any corner of Igbo land that will not understand Ngwa, but he willfully write unnecessary twists and self-generated spellings and alphabets to trick you into thinking otherwise.

Here is a very fast Ngwa speaker.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnyKkman_KE

ChinenyeN:
It's like we're saying the same thing here. You're simply rehashing my statement.



It seems you misunderstand the point of my statement. The point is simply this: Europeans, due to their extensive slave trading contact with Kalabari and then Bonny, were not ignorant of which groups from the interior. In fact, the Europeans did not need to venture into the interior to get information about these communities, because they could record all they needed from their dealings at Kalabari and Bonny slave markets. Between the 16th - 18th centuries, virtually every group within the Lower Niger passed through Kalabari and Bonny slave markets. Europeans purchased them, catalogued and documented them. These documents include reports and memoirs.



I've dived into this subject multiple times here on NL and also provided recommendations for people to use in researching these points. I won't debate this with you. Rather, I'll simply make the following recommendations.

Afigbo's writings within the Ropes of Sand serialization.
Talbot and Mulhall's works on Physical Anthropology in the Lower Niger region.
Akwaranwa's publication on the politico-cultural history of the Ngwa and Ukwa regions.

I know we have some areas of alignment. However, I have to raise a few objections.

1. Can you mention just one memoir from New Kalabar and Bonny between 1700 - 1810? Just one! This is except for Barbot article on "Old Calabar" in 1706?
Barbot was in Old Calabar, "Dony (Andoni), cricke/creek, Bandy (Bonny) and around the area.
Is there any other account or recorded and preserved memoir?

one laden with ethnological accounts.


2. I have referenced and uploaded all Talbot said about Ndoki and there is no place where it mentioned Ndoki being a relatively recent settlement. Talbot even being the oldest of most of the excerpts I uploaded.

ChinenyeN:
From the works of Charles Ogan (1980s), Finapiri (2001), Alagoa & Fombo (1960s) and Nzewuwa (1980s), among others, it is well-established that the Amanyanabo system is a modern monarchy system that first came about in the 17th century among most Eastern Ijaw communities.

Nzewuwa (1983) showed that the House System and a feudal/factional kingship system already existed in the Elem Kalabari area. Kalabari oral traditions and documentary evidence from European traders suggests that these institutions came to be in active practice by the 17th century. Additionaly, Amakiri I (the first of the modern Kalabari monarchs), is recollected as becoming the first "overall Amanyanabo", creating the modern Kalabari dynasty and galvanizing the Kalabari kingdom. This tradition of Amakiri I becoming the first "overall Amanyanabo" suggests the presence of other feudal kings (at least some, not all) going by "Amanyanabo" (Alagoa, 1970s, 2005).

Unlike the series of events/oral traditions of Kalabari, the picture was rather different for Okrika. Charles Ogan (1980s) did a decent job in marking down a chronology for the adoption of both the House System and the Amanyanabo System within Okrika (which Charles Ogan refers to as Amanyanaboship). Charles shows that the Amanyanabo institution did not exist in Okrika prior to its adopted in the seventeeth century. The first Amanyanabo of Okrika (Ado I) was installed as part of the ongoing effort to free Okrika from Bonny's political and economic authority.

Finapiri (2001) researched and collected Bonny oral traditions which credit Perekule as having brought drastic changes to the kingship system in Bonny in the 18th century, in which Perekule was officially proclaimed as the "Amanyanabo", starting the new Amanyanabo dynasty in Bonny. For Bonny, both the House System and the Amanyanabo system were imported between the late 17th to early 18th centuries (Alagoa 1971, Oriji 2011).

These are very recent publications.

Where are the historical references?

What does the phrase mean?

Who established this link ethnographically first?

All our reference here came from 1800s or before 1906.
Algoa's reference from 1970 just at the end of the war is laughable for obvious reasons that we know.
Yeah, you have other references from 2011... Do you have older references? before 1910 at least.

SlayerForever:
A calculated guess.

Quaws, generally Ibibiod peoples Andoni etc
Ottams, some Igbo of hinterland.
Appas, Efik people.


Ekealterego come and epp me

@zooposki, this finally confirms your answer.
@slayerforever, just to reiterate that your assertions about the Kwas are correct.
All the mmoghu people were also called "Mokos" or "Moscoes". In later books, Quaws were recorded as "Kwas".
Proof below

Second proof. This is another account about Bonny.

I will not upload the third proof, it explained how Ijo later influenced the language of Okrika and New Calabar.

ChinenyeN:
I was going to remark on this, but it seems you corrected yourself. This would be it. I can provide a bit more context. The Otam as a people are from the Cross River region. They were decimated during the slave trade and there would be various small pockets of them outside of their homeland in Cross River. The Otam were not Ndoki.

There are a number of things we can look at to determine this, especially by examining the reports and memoirs of various ship captains, missionaries etc.

To first thing to note, the existence of Ndoki as a community is new. You won't see this name in any reports or memoirs written before the late 18th century. Instead, you will see Ndoki acknowledged in a number of reports much later in the 19th century, and where Ndoki does show up, it is easily identified in ship reports, memoirs and missionary journals as part of the soon-to-be-identified "Ibo country".

The second thing to note is that Otam is never conflated with Ndoki in any of these writings. In fact, Otam shows up earlier in many reports, because Otam people were a heavy source or slaves shipped out of the Bight of Bonny. This means the Otam people were obviously well-known in Bonny, and we see no documentation where Bonny people confuse Otam with Ndoki or otherwise relate Otam with Ndoki.

The third thing is that as a consequence of having very intimate dealings with Bonny, Europeans also would not have confused Otam with Ndoki. In fact, I've seen someone (or some people) in thread severally post screenshots of the writings of Rev. John Clarke to talk about Otam. I do not know those who posted the screenshots actually ever read the work by him, but he distinguishes Otam from Ndoki. Some brief bio on Rev. Clarke. He actually never stepped foot on Bonny (or Nigeria for that matter, if I recall correctly). The closest he got was to Bioko (Fernando Po), but in 1840s, even he could tell the difference between Ndoki and Otam, meaning that the distinction was common knowledge.

So the excerpt that someone has used to identify Otam as Igbo people is actually a misnomer. It is likely the case of assimilation, due to having been decimated by the slave trade and needing to take refuge in other parts of the Lower Niger where they settled.

1. Your first assertion is correct, Ottams were different. However, Clarke acknowledged the differences in 3 of the "districts". The ones close to the Annangs , Ibibio and the ones close to the Efiks and then the Igbo regions and the languages collected from these different places differs. The one closer to the Igbos have some Igbo elements already.

2. No, memoir was explored in that area within the 1700s after Barbot in 1699 and 1705. Except secondary reports from others like Captain Williams but writing from Guinea in 1730-1734.

Maybe some publications in Sierra Leone which was also vague.

The very first exploration after Barbot "onsite" ethnography was in 1823. 120 years later!! This was by Captain Adams in 1823!!

Nobody really started recording Igbos separately as sub-groups until much later. Even the "Bretches" who were considered somewhat "different" because they were notorious for planning uprising and taking over slave ships, were just titled Ichi men.

The studies of specific Igbo sub groups and the differentiations only started around 1830-1840s!!! So, I don't understand where you are getting your theories from.

The very first study of Igbos in Igboland or observation of Igbo within their native area or near their native area was Barbot in 1699. He recorded them as "Hickbaus" or "Heebaus". So, tell me how you knew the subgroups?

Although in Sierra Leone, at first they introduce each other by the name of their towns but OTHERS called them Ibos. They didn't have any choice than to come together because others knew they were the same. The sense of that national cohesion became stronger. It was recorded that the Eboes often "banded together". You think others know the difference?

3. Ndoki is not recent. At least, the very very first book that described individual dialects and places within the "Igbo country" recorded Ngwa and Ndoki clearly... They were numerous and already an old cohesive people by that time. They are not as "recent" as you are making it out to be...

Otam were in three categories.

What I feel is that they changed their current name or currently split into sections.

Igboid.. there are still places with the place name, "Otam" in Abia state. In "Otampa" in Isuikwuato, Otamiri, Otama-a. The most likely explanation is that their names changed or absorbed by other groups or split into smaller groups.

Igboid:
According to Eleme Wikipedia page. The full name was "Mbaolli iche" meaning a single special town.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleme_people

Eleme are basically Ogoni people who mixed with Aros and lost their Ogoni flavor and now don't consider themselves Igbo(Aro) or Ogoni, but want to be independent.
Their saving grace is that they retained their original Ogoni language.
If they were Igboid speaking, we would be wanting them to reconnect to us through Aros.

The Aro influence on Eleme is retained in Igbo names some of them of Aro origin bear till this day.
Look at the names of Eleme important personalities on Wikipedia.
See Dimkpa and other Igbo names there.

The name "Kamalu" is as ancient Aro/Bende as it can be. Today, it is now shortened to "Kalu" or "Kanu" but some areas in Abia state still maintain the full version "Kamalu" and "Kamanu", especially Ukwa areas of Asa and Ndoki.

Igboid:
Yeah.
They were probably already assimilated by Ndokis by then and were Ibo, but still have one or two vestiges of their original Cross River language.

You are right. I checked the description again and they mentioned that there were 3 different sets of Otams. The languages collected in some parts are ibo, while one of the samples are definitely Cross-River.

Igboid:
Either this or the Ottam were another proto Cross River group Indigenous to the area currently called Ndokiland, and Bonny, and Opobo, that the Ndoki people assimilated when they arrived the area.

In which case, the Ottam no longer exists today, but exists in the blood of every Ndoki man.
Just like the Neanderthal never went on extinction but were rather assimilated by the homo sapiens we call Caucasians today.
So they continue to exist but inside the blood of Caucasians.

I guess, by the time their language was collected in 1848 by clarke, you could tell they were at least Igbos or something close to the Igbos. It was confusing also because some part of the language was kind of close to Ibibios too.

Another thing is that the historically collected names of some of these people might have changed. At least, some changed.

The Alinsaw or Alinso recorded by Tabot and older historians have changed to Egbema I think.
Eleme was recorded as Mboli (the Arochukwu's settlers' name for what we now call Eleme9. In older books, they were called Mba oli or Mbolli

Pass11:
Anybody can belong to ijaw national council as long as 100 hungry people from the place come together, that is according to your ijaw constitution, infact we will soon register nairaland as part of ijaw we are 80 people now just waiting for more 20 people to sign up

Make it 81, i will help out too.

SlayerForever:
Thanks for that piece of information. I couldn't recognize the term.

For the Bretches, this is why archaeology and Museums are important.
See this mask. I believe it's Igbo-Ukwu or around those areas. See this Igbo art dated by scientists to the 9th century (1100 years ago). This is the same facial marks for those set of Igbo men.

BKayy:
Imagine, even Racists couldn't resist the beauty of Igbo women.
No be today Igbo women started putting men into trouble, that's why today in Nigeria every thing with penis wants to kill himself on Igbo women's matter.

I could not capture this full description but they mixed it up with admiration and a light hint of racism.
These are excerpts from Crow.

SlayerForever:
A calculated guess.

Quaws, generally Ibibiod peoples Andoni etc
Ottams, some Igbo of hinterland.
Appas, Efik people.


Ekealterego come and epp me

The Quaws is a bit confusing. The Quaws were noted to practice teeth sharpening, which was mostly practised within the Anang, Ibibio areas. It could also be the Okua/okwa/Ukwa which was another name specifically reserved for the Asa and Ndoki.

I uploaded the Appas here.

9Pluto:
Thanks for shedding more light. I could not really identify who they are/were. However, your comment is consistent with the author's assertions that the Breeches were igbos too.

The described Bretches in my thread Empire of the Igbos.

The only living "Bretche" today celebrated his 100th birthdaz some weeks ago
The first picture is a Bretche living in Sierra Leone in 1850s.
The Bretches were responsible for most of the ship revolts during the slave trades because they were already titled and rich.

SlayerForever:
A calculated guess.

Quaws, generally Ibibiod peoples Andoni etc
Ottams, some Igbo of hinterland.
Appas, Efik people.


Ekealterego come and epp me

Rev. John Clarke did a lot of work mapping the languages and people to the maps in that area. H collected multiple samples of the dialects in 1848.
This is Ottam described and the samples from different districts within Otam. From the samples of the Language, Otam is definitely Ibos that are close to anywhere around cross rivers or Akwa-ibom.

Eastlink:
@Bishopmagic, I’m waiting for your screenshot evidence. What an insult tagging a proud nwafor Okwuzi as Etche. I also want us to do the pix comparison of our both communities. Someone’s moniker must be retired today.

He cannot keep his hand steady when drunk on a canoe to take picture.

Lionnation:
the same soil texture in rivers is the same soil in IMO or abia, if an ikwere man kills an Igbo he killed his blood, if any Igbo man kills ikwere man he kills him blood, you young people should stop making the enemies to laugh at us, I am from ndoni in rivers state we are all igbo, we should stop this nonsense please

The guy is Ijaw from Bayelsa.

omenkaLives:
Amotekun and other security agencies in the West should keep very close scrutiny over those Ifesinachi buses heading West. We dont want an importation of the scourge into Oduduwa land.

No wonder you are a failure. On the Igede thread, you were there foaming in the mouth because of one person's comment. Just one small comment o... But everyday you are here wasting your life looking for an Igbo thread to comment on.

Alabo7978:
Oboy you are talking plenty.
Bonny is from the loins of ijo.
The bonnys and Nembe bare blood relations, and it is known till this day. Same reason when there were conflicts with opubo, they always call their brothers (the Nembeians) to come and help them.
kababari speaks kalabari, and the bonny people speak the same language kalabari speaks,(KING PEPPLE AND CROWTHER NOTED IT OVER 200 YEARS AGO)
and kalabari is an ijo language.
HERE IS AN EXCERPT FROM YOUR GOOD FRIEND Ekealterego, and do you now see how all these screenshots Talley with one another
Do you SEE IT CLEARLY YOU BLIND DUNCE?
I know you are shocked right now, depressed and dissapointed.
I agree I drink ogogoro, thank you, but don't come here with your imbecilic stupidity to mention me or reply me again on this if you don't declare king pepple and crowther ogogoro drunks too.

This drunk stop spamming my mentions with wikipedia. What Crowther said was OKOLOMA. It is written there. Your Bayelsa needs land, they are tired of swamps. Kiss the truth.

WorWorBoy:
There are no igbos in Rivers State, Eastlink is an Igbo man from the east who is living in Rivers State. Any igbo you see in Rivers are just tenants,as there are no gbos in Rivers State.

There is no ijaw in river state as well. they were all deported to swampy Bayelsa in 1996.

Allen102:
It is you igbos who are found of doing such. But it won't change the facts that Wakirike is an ijaw Subgroup.

Most of the people who replied are all Ijaws from Bayelsa and Delta. You people are super jobless

WorWorBoy:
Mind you,there are no igbos in Rivers State.

Shutup, where is Eastlink and Newae and so many Igbo rivers people here from?

Eastlink:
You were beaten blue. I can see your damage control. Imagine posting an anti-Igbo thread in Warkrike group thinking they’ll fall in line and support you but got the opposite response.
Despite trying to use your Humanist moniker to win emotional support against true Okrikan’s like Dorathy & Mebiaka you still lost the plot.

I could remember how you denied it flatly when I posted the screenshot here only to run back to Wakrike group few hours later to change the narrative.

Clown and unity beggar. The thread proves that Okrika groups have been infiltrated by fifth columnist sponsored by INC to use anti-Igbo messages to propagate Ijaw nationalism. Everything about Ijaw nationalism in groups like Bonny, Andoni, Opobo, Kalabari, Nembe, Okrika is always about Igbo hate.

For example, if someone says ordinary Biko in Bonny/Opobo groups, the imposters from Bayelsa will quickly jump in to accuse such person of killing their Speak Ibani agenda. They even go as far to telling ignorant Okrika and Bonny youths to change their Igbo names to Ijaw sounding names.

That is usually what they do, they go into these groups publishing Igbo hate speech, while ignorant Igbos are in Igbo groups ignorantly talking about "brotherhood".
They even transferred their madness to Abia state in ndoki groups until they were all rooted out and booted out of the group.

I wonder what they are trying to gain? You can preach your ijaw nationalism without inserting Igbo hate into it.
See how they were weeded out.

Peterlawyer:
we are in fact we given many names like igbos of Tiv, American of Tivs etc

Why?

od501:
My brother...I don't know much about Idomas and Igedes, but the two names sounds 100% Igbo. Disassociating yourself from 5he rest of the Igbo community will cause you more harm than good. It is better we unite to fight one common enemy.

Idoma are not Igbos in any way. Abeg Nna biko!
Relations and boundaries? Yes, obviously with the Ezzas, Izzis, Effium etc

That is about it.

God1000:
Thanks dear

See your stuff is on front page.. I asked you to use the opportunity on the front page with a good table of content to talk about some pertinent points, instead you chose to be emotional and even insult me when I was actually very courteos in my suggestion.

Go back to the comments you made on the front page, edit them and answer the main questions.

You can't modify the very first post because it is on front page now, but you can modify the subsequent comments.