tutudesz: The cases dragged on due to some internal issue on both sides
Well, this was going to happen inevitably. This is what you get when you try to merge people you are unaffiliated to by language. Even people that speak the same language self, na still wahala sometimes, talk more of people who speak a completely different language (not even dialect o) or even a close language for that matter.
Ijaws use to have the Benin hallucination until they gained enough influence and snapped out of it.
Ikwerre is actually a different matter, they are still very active in Ohaneze and the politics to the point where they won the Ohaneze South Africa (a very vital part of Ohaneze in the diaspora). They switch quite swiftly when it benefits them. See how they have a stronghold on Rivers politics because they have the added advantage because they would always have the Igbos on their side irrespective of the dynamics.
In future, other smaller groups will hijack that same IYC, and use the policies to their advantage over whatever Ijaw mandate you might originally have.
SlayerForever: One question. If the origin of Okrika is so openly Igbo why and how did they successfully discard their origins for Ijaw today.
It may be the Igbo founders met primitive aborigines when they arrived because there's no way they can successfully eliminate an obviously Igbo heritage.
On the other hand it may be the Okrika history may have been deliberated hidden or distorted so researchers and truth seekers may not find some interesting information. Something definitely changed in the Okrika history along the way. I suspect cultural genocide instigated by you know who.
Genocide is not out of place. A guy from Bonny, I will try to invite him to this discussion, actually told me that Adaka Boro and the federal troupes invaded Bonny and Opobo and ransacked the palace where so much history was kept. They were too small to put up a defence. You know there is nothing more devastating them have fights from the inside during a war... They killed and the other ones left and the chiefs dare not talk about Igbos during the war and even after because of how the Ijaw led River state ruled with an iron hand. I will probably not take that out of the equation. I think the Ekepeye boy here, Nextdoor84 bear similar sentiments.
SlayerForever: One question. If the origin of Okrika is so openly Igbo why and how did they successfully discard their origins for Ijaw today.
It may be the Igbo founders met primitive aborigines when they arrived because there's no way they can successfully eliminate an obviously Igbo heritage.
On the other hand it may be the Okrika history may have been deliberated hidden or distorted so researchers and truth seekers may not find some interesting information. Something definitely changed in the Okrika history along the way. I suspect cultural genocide instigated by you know who.
Well, I believe a lot of things happened though and the last event could have had a more lasting effect to what made okrika what it is.
I believe you can find the answer to the Okirika (Krike as wrirten in older documents) story by looking at New Calabar. I believe it had a very multiethnic influence. I personally do not believe that Igbos or Ijaws alone or together influenced the place. Each village or quarter seem to have a different history If you look well, that place seem to be meeting point of Igboids, Ijoids and Ibiobiods (Cross River) people.
That's why the language itself, although somewhat Ijoid, is not mutually intelligible with Ijaw.
The "riverine" area is an interesting area. Elemee for instance, do not submit to the Ogoni tag because some of them are actually without doubt Igbo (Arochukwu to be specific) Before the civil war, they were called Mboli (Another city/second city) even by themselves and even on the records. Arochukwu people migrated and made that place a second home or even a mini colony. Till today, many of them bear Arochukwu names. The names and imprints are there... they altered the language to a bit but did not change the main language ultimately.
It was interesting to note that Ekpeye call God, "ubini ukpabi" (That 100% is the Aro god) Only Aros refer to any god/diety as "Ubini Ukpabi", although Aros also use Chiokike Abiama/Chukukwu Okike Abiama. Some portions of Ikwerre too were highly influenced by Aros and they still have their quarters.
However Aros did not completely change anyone's language, they rather adapt to the language of any place they settled.
I believe the Aros had a strong influence on all those areas.
I will mention Eastlink (Egbema) and Nextdoor84 (Ekpeye). They are the two Igbos in River state, they will know better and dispute or collaborate what I have written.
SlayerForever: Depends. There's also the Igbani alternative.
There was an Igbo Okrika king that went by the name Ibanichukwu?
Actually, UBA (Wealth; Rich) and IBA (To get rich/wealth) are the same thing and the same meaning. Like Ibala... or some will say Iba ego as an alternative to the noun. Uba.
Iba-Uba, some will say Iba-ba
However, in central Igbo, Iba is the Verb for Uba. Uba is the Noun. However in dialects, Some use "Iba (insert specific subject) as the noun.
Igboid: Ijaw is infecting everyone down there with Igbophobia. I wouldn't hold my breath on modern Andoni not being Igbophobic.
Obolo people even border on being Igbophilic. They definitely have some sort of kindred spirit. They are definitely Ibibiod. Although, they know for sure that they speak some form of Ibibio language, they seem to feel a bit hesitant to be "under" them but rather an independent ally with Oron people.
Yes, INC and IYC and their Ijaw minion seem to be injecting so much Igbophobia into these small independent group.
I was shocked the other day, one of them was actively promising and putting up free recharge cards for any Obolo man that will accept he/she is Ijaw. I was shocked. What shocked me the most was that they were able posting some Igbophobic Adaka Boro message about how Igbos hate everyone in "Niger Delta" and the usual bla bla bla.
Alabo7978: Well, I don't have time for you, OTONYE DOMOKUMA, name sounds familiar? You've been defeated before. Let me face bkayy the dullard, then I'll rename him just as I did you by enculturating him according to ijaw rituals like my ancestors did to Jubo jubogha.
Says a drunk fishermen who claims to "read a lot and have a lot of book" and the only reference he can make is an encyclopedia. Just like your ancestors, you guys are incapable of producing anything.
BKayy: If "Ama" means settlement in Ijaw then there should be another Ijaw town or community with the name. Especially one that is not in contestion with another nation.
Let me help you understand. You know the word "by?" it is old Norse meaning Village/settlement and anywhere the Vikings raided and were later incorporated, they use it to rename the place like "Grimsby" in England.
This is similar to the Igbo word "ama" meaning settlement like Norse "by". So if you are saying that the Igbo word "ama" have now changed to Ijaw because we are on Nairaland and you want to claim the Igbo town of Ubani, then tell me another Ijaw village with that suffix "ama".
In Igbo we have Ama-Igbo, Ama-Enyi all meaning "quarters/settlement" of what they describe which is "Igbo" and "Enyi" (Elephant) etc. So give me another instance/village were "ama" is used to refer to settlement in Ijaw.
You don't even need to go into long argument. The document never said Okoloama. it read, "Okoloma". Same Okoloma is Ndoki till today.
Samuel Crowther clearly wrote Okoloma, he did not write "Okoloama".
So, since the argument is based on the cut excerpt he is hanging on, let us go by that Okoloma name.
Alabo7978: From your logic, okoloama should be ama-okolo, but it is not. Ama means settlement in many ijaw land, or place. I ask you, what would you say about this screenshots?? Will you say pepple, crowther and the entire BRITANNICA are high on ogogoro and that you are the right one ?? Ok let's say Brittanica is wrong, pepple and crowther which own document tallies with Brittanica; are they also wrong? Mumu man, you asked for prove, you saw it, now you're meandering. 419 man
Go school, Una no go gree go, na to drink kaikai... I don't think you passed through a university. Look at us citing academic text and you are here bringing up Britannica. Jokes apart, are you actually serious with the Britannica reference in this context? Please, tell me you are joking.
On the other hand, it is not Okoloama. it is Okoloma and Okoloma dialect that Bonny speak is still spoken in Okoloma Ndoki till today.
BKayy: You are a big iti mpataka. An extremely dull one at that.
Are you seriously bringing Britannica as a source to a reasonable debate?
Ekealterego, did you see this? We might be wasting time with a dull undergraduate here. Geez
It is just generally the average Ijaw intellect. They have never been very bright. Some o them knew this quite well and decided to marry Igbo women just to clean up their DNA.
You also know that they are just quarrelsome and inherited these traits from their ancestors.
You can tell that Okrika are fairly better because of their Igbo ancestors.
This is from Britannica, the biggest information repository in the world. It said Bonny (okoloama) is ijo and they brought in slaves in the hinterlands (mainly ibos) To be sold. Have you seen it. First I showed you that crowther document, you concorted stories, now look at this one, big liars. The igbos even became relevant after the slave trade ended. Anonymous15 was right all along and you people slandered him bitterly. He also said king Friedrich Koko of Nembe waged war on the Brits too. This must be in relation with ending the slave trade because they earned big money by selling you people to work in sugar cane farms in America. You only became relevant because of palm oil Anonymous15 was right. Now you want to claim with lies. Look at this information from Brittanica, let me see how you will meander from this, or does BRITANNICA DRINK OGOGORO TOO
First, just in case you have never written a thesis before. If you cite an Encyclopedia in an academic context, "YOU WILL LOOSE MARKS" because encyclopedias are good for general knowledge but not for deep academic truths.
Secondly, it states, that, "it was a trading centre for Ijo people". We here never said that Ijos were not present in Bonny.
Guy, is this the best brain Ijaws can bring? pheww.
Alabo7978: Ekealterego , SlayerForever Look what I found, is this official receipt not enough? How best do you want to meander from this one? This clearly show okolo-ama people are the original. Or will you say the king and crowther are ogogoro drinking people? Please what other reciept do you want greater than this?
Oga, you didn't find this. That is my upload. I uploaded it by MYSELF from the same place The same person was accounted as being IGBO.
Alabo7978: Sorry, you said "they were talking about origin" WHO WAS TALKING ABOUT ORIGIN Mr Man stop fooling yourself. You claim to be a researcher, I want you to go to Bonny for research and say this nonesense there. The language is very very very very very very very different. The tradition and all. Igbos were mostly slaves in Bonny. The original inhabitants and ancestors of the king's were okolo-ama people.
Yes, and Okoloma are Ndokis. They still exist till today and speak the same language even in Bonny.
Igboid: I think the Iguana thing in Bonny came from Aboh. They have similar culture over there, you find the Iguana reverance anywhere Aboh had influence on. Even in Orogun now part of Urhobo where Abohs once held sway and in Ndoni(Ndi-onu-iyi), the Iguana reverance is prominent.
Noticed also that the name Aboh called Bonny was written in the article the Ijaw guy shared. All these shows that Aboh had great influence and contact with early Bonny and must have also supplied some of it's early occupants.
It's all making sense now.
I originally shared it in my conversation with him on another thread. These crop of Ijoh boys do not have the mental capacity to bring receipts from history.
Have you seen anyone of them attempt to dig up history or make any reference?
Alabo7978: Bro stop showing excerpt from someone's opinion. I dare you to go to Bonny group on Facebook to cap all this. King edimini was the one who caused all of this. He married his daughter Kambasa off to an ndoki man(I have forgotten his name) He did that to pave a path for trade(slavery) That ndoki man was the one who arranged his brothers to be sold for his own wealth. And when Kambasa came back to Bonny, some of those people followed her, but she took another lover named biriye who bore her a son. And it was from this line perekule emerged. It was the igbos who corrupted (Bonny) a British given name to ubani or ibani. But it is known and have always been known as okolo-ama by the locals
One thing common with all you Ijaws is that you cap with no single reference to history. You sit in your beer parlour and make things up...
See most of us here, citing references, books, history, accounts from every group on how things were 250-300 years ago.
We bring proof and receipts.
Bonny's history was well and wholesomely documented. This is not beer parlour gist.
Alabo7978: The writer said amachree and pepple are of heebo, but you said the king's themselves declared it. I thought I'll be shown that. That is a statement from someone and not the kings themselves. I am afraid that doesn't hold water.
Bro. If an okolo-ama man speaks, the igbos there don't hear them except it is the igbos who have stayed there and understand the okoloama dialect. They call God tamuno same with some other clans under ijo. House is called Wari, other ijoh clans call house Wari too. We say 'wari'o' when about to enter someone's house, And the owner will say 'suo'o'
You are obviously dumb. The person who wrote the stuff was a co-researcher.
That's standard ethnographic writing. You write in reported and observatory stand-point. I thought you should figure out. Anyone who went to secondary school would.
The other was an appendix!!!!!!!!!
What sort of education is provided in this Nigeria? My God!!!
In the appendix, that was a letter where Crowther asked him to give the name his town was called and language for mapping and reference purposes... It was not about whether the king himself himself was Igbo or Hausa. (That is also standard anthropological and ethnographic procedure)
Go and read the book and stop talking like someone who never visited the four walls of a class.
Whereas in the text, they were talking about origin!!! And that is standard ethnographic reporting style.
Alabo7978: Calm down, you said you uploaded it, and he cut half right? Ok let's say he did what you said. How come pepple in the cut one said he was Igbo, but in the one he sent to crowther he said he was OKOLOMA? (Indigenous) And that ibos were slave in Bonny(a white given name) ?? Can you explain it calmly... I'm not here to fight.
1. Because as in the olden days, people Igbo people identify by their towns first and the Igbo second. Till today, that is why you hear more often, Mbaise man, Ngwa man, Nsukka man. In our towns and between fellow Igbos, we identify by our names first. All non-Mbaise Igbos will call them by their name, while they call other Non-Mbasise Igbos, Igbos. However, when they refer to themselves to Non-Igbos, they simply call themselves, "Igbos". Town or Tribe identity is important in Igbo language.
2. Bonny was a corruption of the word "Ubani" or "Obani" and "ibani" They all mean the same thing in Igbo language. All the European explorers right from Barbot in 1699 acknowledged the corruption of the name in their books.
And see the relationship in trade and commerce wen Igbos were compared to other groups.
CC: Bkayy Slayerforever, Fejoku, Igboid. It was clear here that Igbos were never at any point on the same league. This account is from Johnston in the 1800s.
Alabo7978: Lol, are you high on mkpuru'mmiri drugs? Which of the pepple, there were so many pepple kings, about 8 Pepple is actually a family name. So which of the pepple you claim is Igbo?
Slayerforever, Bkayy, Igboid, Fejoku please, confirm. In this book (I found it in a Mexican online library, written around 1899 or 1900s.
1. You can find King Amacree of New Calabar and King Pepple of Bonny declaring that they were "Igbos". (This is 1823-1840)
2. You can find the main source of the "Kalabaris". The Kalabari people. This further confirms that the main source of kalabari people is Igbo first. In that same upload, You can find the various Igbo groups. Although some of the spellings were probably in spelt in the Spanish version.
Alabo7978: I have been following this thread, You're still asking what the Ijaw Ethnic nationality called Bonny after the other guy typed it many times, and even showed you screenshot of Samuel crowther?? You're even the blind one here. Can't you see it is called OKOLOMA by the original indigenes? Can't you see igbos were slaves from the same excerpt? Can't you read? Or see?
Shut up. I uploaded it. this was one part of the upload. That was appendixed to the source. King Pepple himself said in the main text that he was of an Igbo origin. I uploaded it alongside this. That Ijaw drunk only cut that part not showing the full transcript.
Even if we go by that alone, OKOLOMA is an Igbo word and IGBO people.
and till today, The OKOLOMA dialect (Ndoki dialect) is what is spoken in Opobo and Bonny.
I know intellect is not something most of your canoe dwelling drunks are known for but please try to use your sense a lil bit.
Anonymous15: When you can't read or have any factual evidence to counter everything I gave you, you then display your stupidity by coming of to tag your land grabbing comrades and laugh at your self imposed fake victory. Brother man read that document. If you can't read, ask your friends to read for you. Mind you, it was in one of my debates with your friend Ekealterego( whom I renamed OTONYE DOMOKUMA like my ancestors did yous) mistakenly brought that document up. If you can't read clearly, I will type it out for you.
TERMINOLOGY FROM KING PEPPLE. Bonny is called OKOLOMA by themselves Bonny is called okoloBA by the ibos osiminikun by the Aboh tribe of ibo new Calabar is called Bom by the ibos
king pepple said that Bonny is CHIEFLY PEOPLED by IBO SLAVES though they speak the OKOLOMA or Bonny language which is also the language of new Calabar.
I remain Rev and Dear sir your obedient humble servant Samuel crowther
Read and understand bro, even OTONYE DOMOKUMA didn't see that when he wanted to use it to attack me, what do y'all suffer from; jaundice??
Bkayy, Slayerforever, Igboid this is just to reconfirm the final evidence.
This even give the Ndoki people more leverage on Bonny... It was clear that Bonny was an offshoot from Ndoki. Then later all the other Igbos. That is why their dialect is closer to Ndoki and Ngwa till today.
OKOLOMA IS IN NDOKI. They knew where they came from.
BKayy: How does it feel now that you have realised that you have no claim to Ubani/Ibani/Bonny? Your or our friend Anonymous15 have cracked the case for all of us?
Lol. So even "Ibani" is not an Ijaw word . May God bless Anonymous15 for this wonderful screenshot. He has managed to get us the original name of Kalabari and the other Igbo names of Ubani. Plus, he has managed to complete the link between Bonny, Asa (Obigbo) and Ndoki.
cc SlayerForever, Igboid and Ekealterego. The case has been solved. Ibani was never an Ijaw word but Igbo. The screenshot has completed the link.
Ijaw has no single claim to Bonny.
I actually sent him that screenshot which he was confirm and he was actually doing the gospel by spreading the news all over. Their kings were Igbo...If you follow the second screenshot, King Pepple himself testified that he was Igbo alongside king of New Kalabar. He knows.
chiefobdk2: How will his agenda fly if he accept he is wrong.. The guy is so unintelligent his argument is devoid of sense
I think he takes meth before coming online. Most of his ramblings are usually detached from reality, outerwordly, imaginary and laden with drug induced emotions.
There are 100s of Igbo forums he can take his discussions to so he can learn but he chose Nairaland and doesn't even want to learn.
AlexBells: If you like be to navy universe, the only navy town you been to is the one in your head, been to navy town and so what, who are you to inquire after the navy's swimming efficiency, as an Admiral or what, I had been observing you make that stupid statement on the Nigerian navy and kept my cool yet you continued your foolishness,
Becuase you went to see your friends which by the kind information they share with you seem non disciplined you are here talking Bulshit, Nigerian Military has its flaws just like any other institution in the world but fools like you would talk trash just to score cheap points
It seems you are the only one with a different opinion and the only person opening useless threads devoid of commonsense.
100s of people have corrected you but you seem to be struggling from external influences one cannot be even explain.
Both Igbos and non-Igbos have corrected you, but you didn't even choose to learn from one.
ThickSharon123: Sweetheart, Igbos do not have issues. We were brought into a system were cowardice, servitude and ridiculous obesiance was self-forced on us. This is why we are pro-igbo, becuase most idealogies from other tribes are either ancient or not accepted in the present state of the world. This is the reason for the Igbo renaissance.
That said, not to deviate from the subject, Igbos love to swim, infarct a great majority of us love the water.
I'm Ghanaian (Ashanti) but my lovely Igbo mum is from Arochukwu in Abia state. In the past when I came to the village for Christmas, the village kids would drag us to the river to while away the time, and you'll be seeing little kids swimming like submarine jets.
I for myself love the water, and the elders I saw there also love the water. Water is refreshing and it has been known for millennials. This is the reason the human body is made up of 70-80 percent water. So to say Igbos fear water becuase of what not, I'll say it's false. Igbos love the water in some respect, but avoided it becuase of certian issues it has at that time, and they'd also loved the dry land because of their dry crop products. Gbam!!!
Interesting, a lot of people from Arochukwu to Ohafia to Bende do business and have been successful over the years in Ghana, Benin and Togo. Many of them married Ghanaians but I didn't know it was common for the women too.
AlexBells: Are you not exactly stating what I said, look at that fine, large water bodies, no highrise near it, are you trying to tell me that if that water was in Lagos or let's say Florida that it would remain that way all these while, why are estates developers not going there, why would it be that single tourist and that rickety canoe sailing it, abeg you people should not be picking holes in your own argument
This Is Ehugbo/Afikpo town and a big town for that matter and there is a massive beach developed there.
Secondly, What other city in Nigeria do you have highrise close to the water except for Lagos? Again, in terms of building development, there is a massive difference between building development by sea salt water ocean bordered water bodies and fresh water rivers.
The land is usually marshy and do not make for a great sites for building and it costs a lot because you will need more money for foundations and the houses will generally not last as long. Except if you use wood for the construction.
Secondly there is problem of road construction etc.
From an environmental POV, those marshes near rivers are great source of biodiversity. it is generally good to be left alone. Note, I don't mean smaller streams or smaller rivers.
Again, I don't think you know how this works... People, allover the worl
AlexBells: How much number of the population lives in this rural communities compared to millennia Igbos born and raised in cities with flats and others born outside Igboland, population of rural dwellers are diminishing, it is not just Enugu, it is not about having swimmable waters, most part of Igboland has it, the issue is that most people live in cities and in most part of Igboland, parents does not allow children to go near any body of water deeper than 10 feet.
You need to get your line of thoughts and arguments together. First you said Igbos are aquabophic in a historical context, then when you were proven wrong, you switched to saying you are referring to children living in flats in the cities.
Brother, is it not common sense that if did not learn how to swim from childhood or at any point, that one should not go into a large water body? Now, Nigerian cities are just a disappointment, there are not enough swimming pools where people are taught how to swim. For many kids in the past, going to the village to swim was one of the highlights of their holidays.
Check this is Afikpo. see how massive this water body is and you can see children swimming inside.
Igboid: But there are many riverine Igbo groups. We call them the Oru/Olu. The Ogbaru that live by the River Niger, the Oguta by Oguta lake, the Enuani and live along river Niger too. The Ndokis live by the banks of Imo blue river. The Omambala who live by Anambra river
All these Igbo clans had all developed riverine culture and are not scared of the River.
Part of the reason Ndiigbo avoided riverine terrain down south is that those Waters were mosquito infested those days and hence living there came with high infant mortality. Igbos valued farm work, especially Yam cultivation, a man's wealth was measured by his yam barn. You need children growing into adulthood to provide you with labor to farm, living in riverine areas would mean you don't get much of your children growing into adulthood.
Look at the riverine areas of Igboland, they are the most most sparsely populated areas of Igboland. In Anambra look at the Omambala areas in Anambra East, Anambra West and Ayamelum LGAs. They are very sparsely populated. Same with Ogbaru areas, except the areas around Okpoko that has become part of Onitsha metro. In Anioma, look at Ukwuani people who live in swampy lands, they are the least populated.
Look at Bayelsa population. Very sparse.
Igbo ancestors avoided riverine areas because of the diseases and high infant mortality they brought.
This is very very true. I believe it was Laird or Lander, I can't remember exactly who documented the diseases of people around the Niger" in 1820s or something like that. He first documented the diseases he encountered and reckoned that areas in Igbo hinterland was cleaner, healthier and neater... while those on the banks of the rivers and the water/canoe dwelling tribes like Ijos and the coastal inhabitants of New calabar suffered from a lot of tropical diseases and high infant mortality because of mosquitoes and other water related diseases.
The white men could not conquer Africa for a long time because the diseases kill them first even before the people kill the remaining ones weakened by mosquitoe borne diseases. The discovery of quinine marked the victory of Europe over Africa, especially the sub-sahara.
As for the Igbos, you are correct, the water dwelling Igbos were called Orus or Olus. The place names still exist all over those areas. and they were very influential in shaping those areas.
The Oru dieties were adopted by other coastal tribes. Around Bayelsa and Rivers. Once, you hear Oru this or Oru that, it's based off of the water diety*. Especially in amongst Engenni, Urhobo, Ijaw etc.
and for the OP, Alexbells, he talks with so much misinformation. That's what you get when you do no research before talking about something you know nothing about.