₦airaland Forum

5 years max. Most of the girls I date are usually 1 or 2 years older anyway.

Arms and breasts look bigger.

kcjazz:
@Ekubear Am all for technical education to solve unemployment but plumbing is not as easy as you make it sound. In the state of Minnesota it takes 7 years to get a license.

Looks like 5 years only, in Minnesota (http://www.plumberslocal34.org/JAC.php). And you work (and are paid) before getting the licence. I'm sure the hourly rate they charge is pretty insanely high, too.

Also, it appears that Minnesota has one of the more stringent requirements in the US for becoming a plumber. Only 4K hours required there (http://www.ehow.com/way_5439010_steps-become-licensed-plumber-texas.html) versus 7K hours in Minny (http://www.ehow.co.uk/how_6574567_become-plumber-minnesota.html).

Akhenaten:
I should have done this a long time ago. You are ignored from now on. Now we can go back to discussing the topic.

He is highly entertaining though. You'll miss out  

I don't even think the federal government should be in charge of most of education. There is no economy of scale gained here anyways. If Kwara state believes that 70% of its indigenes should go to college, let it provide cash to pay for them to go (though this will be an enormous waste of resources, since all but the top 25% probably won't be able to do much with the college education anyway.)

If Ekiti State only wants to sponsor its top 2% students for college, then let them have that right.

Federal government of Nigeria has no reason business being involved in education other than setting some baseline standards each state must meet. Has no business owning federal schools or any of the other nonsense it does.

alj harem1:
well, i am half igbo and i can talk for my people  

Abeg, let the Igbo and their neighbors resolve who is Igbo and who isn't. Doesn't really concern any of the rest of us, I think.

@Kobojunkie: Speak up. What would you do, given a finite budget, and if you were in charge of education in Nigeria?

tensor777:
Actions do have sometimes have lifelong consequences. However youths do need to be taught to take personal responsibility for their own actions and be brave enough to take the consequences.

100% agree. I myself goofed off in HS to some extent (videogames and programming) and I paid a price for it (might not seem like a huge price to most people if I say it, but I to this day still regret it.)

The problem of course is that what you and I are saying is not going to be very politically popular, despite it being the right course of action and best way to use limited resources.

^-- Most of the Yoruba who betray their people have done so in collaboration with outsiders. This is part of the reason why strong federalism or outright independence is appealing to me. These guys cannot go run off to Abuja to hide from their people who they have betrayed 

@fstranger1: So your proposal is that kids who goof off in school, do poorly on mandatory exams and are not even in the top 50% of their peers should still be given college admission and subsidies?

If they don't take school seriously, it is unfortunate and sad, but that is life. BTW, I'm not saying they can NEVER go to college. Maybe they'll retake the exams when they are more serious and ready to focus (e.g., age 20 or 22 after working for a few years) and be more successful then. I know people from my own high school who went this route.

Missy85:
Second, the idea that Ekiti people for instance will load up on anti quated double barrels & declare a war on Ibadan is preposterous.

Those days are long gone. Too much intermarriage and moving around for there to be civil war in Yorubaland. Plus we've had lots of nationalist Yoruba figures who have helped unite rather than divide us.

even in the Uk during footbal matches betwn scotland & england.

Lol, this I was not aware of.

Missy85:
I dont expect yorubas will drive anyone away from their territory.

Indeed. Only a fool drives away economically productive citizens. If anything, I'd be interested in poaching them other regions of Nigeria.

Some people seem to fearmonger and act as if Yoruba are xenophobes, when imo we are the most tolerant people in all of Nigeria.

And just in case you think this is some sort of elitist rant, I have a cousin who I love very much who is in college right now and is probably going to take 6 or 7 years to finish a 4 year course. Very talented at certain things but not great at other things. Would have been better off not going to college and instead pursuing a career. But alas, everyone (especially the parents) thinks that college is the only way to have a good life 

tensor777:
I am just being realistic. What really is the alternative? All Nigerian High School students cannot be academic. Is this not even recognized in family settings in Nigeria where those who are not of academic bent are advised to learn work or attach to a trade.
Maybe this kind of thing should be formalized and institutionalized.
But there are no easy answers to this problem.

Problem is that trades are being looked down upon. Nobody wants to be a plumber, mechanic, etc. Everybody wants to go to college and get a nice cushy office job. Honestly, in the western world, some of these plumbing jobs pay a lot of money. Our washing machine was broken. I called the dude from Sears to fix it. He spent 15 minutes on it and charged me $95 bucks. . .

Ain't nothing wrong with being a technician, lol

So 63.3% in the US, so roughly the best 3 out of every 5 students.

In my opinion, that is way too many. 37th percentile is too low to set the threshold.

Think of your own personal experiences with your average American HS graduate (so 50% percentile). The guy who works as a bank teller somewhere. Receptionist. Jobs of that sort. Do they really have any business being in college?

University of Maryland has a bunch of remedial classes where freshman waste there time learning things they should have already learned in high school. Some of these kids, if you ask them a basic pre-algebra question like, "given these two points on a line, what is the slope and y-intercept of the line?", they won't be able to answer. And these are 17, 18, 19 year old kids wasting the Maryland taxpayer's dollar on a simple question my 10 year old sister learned this weekend.

The US and the Western world can afford to waste resources (federally subsidized loans, taxpayer subsidized education, etc) like that since they are very rich. Nigeria on the other hand cannot.

I prefer a model of mandatory, high-quality education up to the high school level. Then the top 20% or so of students can get into college.

@Kobojunkie: I was thinking the US, Canada, Europe and the like. I dunno off the top of my head what the rates are though; perhaps you could google and supply us with those #s.

Personally I'd feel comfortable with 20% or 25%.

However, let me admit my own bias: having seen so many students go through four years of college in the US to work as bank tellers, marketers, or other careers that do not require a college education, I feel that too many kids in the US are going to college (understandable, since here a college degree is required for many jobs which do not need it.)

Akhenaten:
It doesn't matter if Nigeria remains as one or splits. Igbo economic interest should be protected. Most nations like attracting foreign investment. I do not understand why a nation would try to cut off its nose to spite its face. Igbos add to the economic development of a nation.

Even if Nigeria splits, the news states must protect private investment. Or face the wrath of international capitalism.

That is just the way the world is. Americans didn't want to sell some port thing to a company in Dubai a couple of years ago (Dubai Ports World is the name, iirc), aren't happy about buying lots of things from China, used to be unhappy about Japanese buying up stuff in the 80s when Japan looked like it was on the rise, etc.

Nigeria sef has import duties on lots of goods. But nobody is forced to pay import duties right now to buy rice grown in say the middle belt and shipped to Lagos.

Also, think about how hard countries like Ghana and others in West Africa make it for Nigerians to do business there.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when it comes time to execute project X in say Bayelsa (for example), there aren't enough qualified Bayelsans to do the job, they won't look to give the contract out of sentimental reasons to someone not from the ND. Heck, they might even actively discriminate against those who are from what remains of Nigeria. Even if there is a qualified Arewa Republic man who is a world-wide expert in executing Project X, they'll give it to a Brazilian instead. While it is hard doing stuff outside of your own region in Nigeria right now, it isn't impossible. If Nigeria splits, it might become even more difficult.

Interesting comments.

I guess there is sort of a dilemma here. In a reasonable country, if pass = qualified to be admitted to university, 20-25% seems like a pretty decent rate. Certainly it shouldn't be that 50% or 100% of high schoolers go to college, otherwise the quality of college educations will diminish quite a bit.

But I guess in Nigeria, if you don't go to college, your long-term earnings prospects are probably terrible.

So, yes, we need to improve education levels. But we also need to provide alternatives so that not everybody feels that they must go to college to provide a living for themselves. I dunno, it is tough for me to immediately see the solution.

udezue:
Abagworo is just spewing rubbish.

Nah, he raises some good points.

Hmm, perhaps I'm making a wrong guess about his perspective. . . but if you are an Igbo with most of your economic interests outside of Igboland, then it is quite likely that you aren't interested in Nigeria breaking up. After all, which businessman wants the markets which he can invest in and the economic opportunities available to him reduced?

Abagworo:
This same suggestion of yours is applicable as Nigeria's solution.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to true federalism in Nigeria. I'd actually slightly prefer it to independence. But it isn't clear to me that this will ever happen with the current constitution of Nigeria. Dunno how federalism will be achieved without drastically reducing the powers of the FG. And I don't see how this would be done without some sort of SNC. Nobody in government is going to seek to weaken his own power.

Why then would we have to divide Nigeria and still face thesame problem of "true federalism"?

Sometimes a difficult problem (e.g. nation-building) is made simpler if it is broken down into smaller pieces.

In every majority there will always be minorities and natural resources will never be equally distributed.

Indeed. But I think this a big problem with Nigerians in general. Too much focus on natural resource extraction rather than human development.

Our best solution is to make Nigeria work by de-centralizing power and resource control.

Not sure if it is the best overall solution for all parties (outright independence is probably best for the Ijaws) but it is among the best, yes.

What pains me most is that a man from South-South is the President and has just wasted a whole year politicking instead of tackling this key issue that is holding us back as a nation.

It would be pretty hard to fix in a year.

blacksta:
Mr Oni said it was insulting for anyone to claim that the office of the Attorney-General and Minister of Justice was being put under pressure to “look for any offence, no matter how flimsy, to arrest a character like [Mr] Tinubu, who is noted for drug peddling, operation of foreign accounts while serving as governor and purchase of almost everything in Lagos with his ill-gotten wealth.” The former governor, who also alleged that he was aware of a plot by Mr Tinubu to assassinate him, said; “They held a meeting in Lagos a few days ago where it was agreed that noose should be tightened against Segun Oni for his stance on the mafia being led by Tinubu himself.” “This time around, we are no longer going to keep quiet and allow this mafia the freedom to purchase the soul of Nigeria,” he said.

Lol @ Oni

Abagworo:
And what makes you think I will like to join an Igbo republic with Anambra,Ebonyi,Enugu etc?I will prefer Imo State to be a country of its own or further still Ohaji,Egbema,Oguta,Oru to each be a  separate country.The only way I will like to be in a bigger country is if non -Igbos are included for diversity.

Why on earth would you not want to be in a country with your own people? I don't get it. If you want autonomy, you can have that. Just have true federalism in your constitution so your state is virtually autonomous.

alj harem1:
i agree that there are a lot of southerners in abuja, just like there are lot of igbos in lagos, should we now call lagos SE instead of SW,,,NO

Abuja is historically Gwari land, yes. I'm not sure that they view themselves as core North though, more middle belt.

@Missy85: Make some concrete suggestions, then. Under what framework do you think all parties could likely agree to separate? You mentioned 10 years of additional oil derivations. What else?

@Dede1: I like your spirit. Unfortunately, since WW2 (and Israel, I suppose), territorial expansion has become more difficult to pull off  without causing international wahala   You are free to try though. Just don't complain if the tide turns again you; if you want to play a dangerous game, you must also live with the consequences. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

@alj harem1: Abuja is not northern at all, it is squarely in the middle belt Lots and lots of southerners here. A good # of Yoruba; remember, Abuja is close to Kwara and Kogi. And yes I prefer Abuja to Lagos personally, but that doesn't mean I owe any allegiance to the north rather than my own region.

alj harem1:
dapobear, u are talking trash here

what do you mean by unproductive

If you don't want me to talk honestly about these things, I can tip-toe around them. But the truth is the truth. You yourself you'd stay in Lagos rather than moving North.

@Missy85: I'm not trying to be antagonistic or violent. And I feel like I'm being fairly pragmatic.

The crux of the matter is that I think the North has essentially zero leverage (outside of the threat of coup), and you think they have significant leverage. Under my own hypothesis, my position is reasonable, is it not? Makes no sense to give any opponent more leverage than they truly have.

Regarding the River Niger, since you seem to know more about the international laws governing the flow of water, please clarify for all of us how much leverage the North would have. And explain to me why Sudan then doesn't exert similar leverage over Egypt, Guinea over Mali, Niger Republic and Nigeria, and why whoever controls the Amazon doesn't exert enormous influence on those downstream, etc.

Regarding ports, you misunderstand me. All I am saying is that I'm not expecting them to continue using Lagos ports out for sentiment reasons; I think that this particular product can stand on its own feet for price reasons (especially if we invest heavily to improve it.)

Regarding poverty of Northern Nigeria, what have I said to make you think I want them to be poor? I don't want them to be poor; having economically robust neighbors is good for everyone. But not wanting them to be poor doesn't mean I'm obliged to give them free cash.

Dede1:
@eku_bear

It depends on how Nigeria disintegrated. If Nigeria disintegrates through the muzzle of guns and new boundary lines redrawn, there is absolutelly no obeying old agreement. Even the so-called colonial boundaries will be jettisoned indefinitely as military expansionism will the order of the day.

Sounds like a good way to be an outcast amongst the community of nations. I'm not interested in that for me and my own people. You guys can do what you like. We will respect property rights, international law, including whatever boundaries are agreed upon.

Missy85:
-They have the greater control on R. Niger

I don't think that they are permitted under international laws to disrupt the flow of the River Niger too much. They can divert some for their own purpose, of course.

- Igbos mainly, have billions of assets there
- Kogi, Kwara, possibly parts of benue for Igbos?

Already addressed these two issues.

- you have no interest in them continuing to use Lagos ports?

Isn't by force. Let them shop around, compare Lagos to Cotonou and Cameroon, to ports hopefully in Ondo as well. I suspect Lagos can beat all of those ports from a price perspective. If they want to ignore the less expensive Port of Lagos to use a more expensive port, so be it Somehow I doubt they'll cut off their nose to spite their face.

Missy85:
i assume you'd want concessions from the north re Kwara & Kogi

First of all, Kwara and Kogi (and possiblyy some of these other middle belt states) themselves under a free and fair referendum will overwhelming prefer to join the SW over staying in the North After all, it is clear that the future in a landlocked, economically unproductive country like "Arewa Republic" would not be the brightest,
And if they decide to stay? Unfortunate, but I'll respect that. It isn't necessary that all Yoruba are in one country.

Igbos will want binding assurances about their assets in the north

What? If the North violates Igbo assets in the North, then they I guess are interested in a future in which they are an international pariah nation like Iran or North Korea. Pariah status = no access to foreign capital = zero chance of building your country quickly. So it is in their own best interest to ensure that those assets are secure. Unless they are looking for wahala.

the Igbos & niger deltans will want to negotiate with the north regarding the free flow of river niger etc. I can think of 100s of stuffs that will need to be negotiated.

I doubt they are even permitted to block the flow of international rivers, even if it would be economically advantageous for them to do so (which it would not.)

Missy85:
a lot of things will have to be put on table & negotiated

To say you want seccession, but only on condition you dont give any of your SW oil away is unrealistic.

An arrangement whereby all parts continue to benefit from crude oil proceeds for a limited time (say 10yrs), after we go our separate ways, is more realistic and likely to lead the north & other to make reciprocal concessions.

But concessions have to go both ways. You have to bring something to the table before you can concede part of it. There is nothing the North has to offer; what would they then be conceding? If we all sit together at the table and decide to say, "Hey, it was a nice try, but things didn't work out, let's go our separate ways", the North by itself is powerless to stop the rest from coming to this agreement. It is therefore not in a position to extract any money from the South.

Ujujoan:
My 9 year old cousin did the same thing. Ever since he was a baby he has watched his parents have intimacy in the one room the whole family shared.

See, this to me seems messed up. If I'd been effectively watching porn several times a day since age 5, I too might have been looking for sex at quite a younger age

I'm not trying to excuse your cousin's actions, but I think he was being put in a bad spot by being in the same room as his parents while they had sex. Isn't quite fair to him.