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The most valued stat in the Premier League.

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Statistics can be overrated in football. Take Nicklas Bendtner. His defenders will point to the goals he scores as proof that the Dane is a dynamic forward, one Arsenal will regret leaving the club. Bendtner no doubt shares that assessment, but it's the timing of goals that matters as well as a player's positioning and off-the-ball movement. On these counts Bendtner fails more than he delivers.

Point is, statistics can be tricky, but if there's one that deserves a bit more publicity, it's "chances created" -- defined by Opta as "a pass that directly leads to a shot from an intentional assist." It's this stat, among other factors, that led Liverpool to purchase Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson and Stewart Downing in the transfer window, as they were all in the top 13 of chances created last season. (For more on Liverpool's metric-based transfer policy as it rebuilds a very British-looking team seemingly straight out of the first Kenny Dalglish era, check out this excellent piece.)

Who are the leading creators so far this season, with the caveat that we're only three games into the season: Martin Petrov, Danny Murphy and Ashley Young all lead with eight chances created, and Wayne Rooney is next with seven. We can expect to see other names on this leaderboard, as the likes of Downing, Samir Nasri and Nani get more playing time.

Gareth Bale has blazing pace, but his teammates need to do better in converting his crosses into goals.
Last year, one player who was conspicuously absent from the top 10 was Gareth Bale. He created 39 chances. The No. 10 player on this list, Didier Drogba, created 52, and the leader was another Chelsea player, Florent Malouda, with 74.

Bale's relatively poor showing is not surprising. For all his explosive pace and peerless ability to cross the ball with his left foot at breakneck speed, he hasn't had much luck seeing his balls go into the back of the net. His fault? Hardly. It's been more down to the likes of his target men. Guys like Peter Crouch, who's glaring inability to head the ball into the net -- if you watched him against Manchester City, his final game for Spurs before transferring to Stoke, you saw a man standing 6-feet-7 who blew not one but three headers in front of goal -- have done the Welshman a disservice. Will Emmanuel Adebayor, on loan this season from City, be the one who starts connecting with Bale's sublime crosses and puts him in the top 10 for chances created?

Bale would do himself a favor if he becomes more adept at coming into the middle of the park, mixing up his play and developing his right foot a bit more so he's not such a one-trick pony. But overall, the player may eventually need to consider leaving Spurs to surround himself with better players. It can do wonders. Just ask Ashley Young.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/blog/_/name/martin_james/id/6942795/most-important-stat-premier-league-james-martin-soccer

coogar: any ball whipped into the box from a setpiece is a chance even when it's intercepted by the defender and headed out to corner....the players who take the set-pieces should never be compared to the ones who don't take them as far as parameters like chance created/assists are concerned.

so telling us rooney is more creative than berbatov or hernandez is a fraudulent statement. that has been my point from the outset. so whether rooney took one setpiece throughout the season or took 100 is irrelevant - fact remains he has an advantage over berbatov/hernandez.

Can you prove this your statement? That any ball from a set piece into the box is a chance credited to the player who took it irrespective of whether it was headed away or not? We aren't kids na. Let's talk with verifiable facts.

From your statistics, Rooney created only 51 chances all season (in over 30 matches cumulatively), and given your argument that Rooney takes a lot of corner kicks and free kicks, how does this figure goes near your assertion? I can bet Rooney's corner and free kick all season should be over 100, to be conservative about it.

coogar: which calculations? tell us how you arrived at this imaginary calculation....

RVP played more matches than Rooney. Rooney also share his kicks with young. Young took much of the kicks from the left of the field whipping them into the box.

coogar: the player who takes the set-piece would almost certainly get the assist(if a goal results from it) or get the chance created credits if a shot is taken. berbatov and chicharito aren't the only players in the box trying to score from the set-piece so there own credits relies on probability. you should be able to spot that difference!

If there is an interception or a goal mouth scramble from a set piece, then the player who took it won't be credited with the assist, except if there was just one more touch into the net from the kick. So until we are able to narrow it down with the exact statistics for individual players, this line you are towing will only end up being a distraction and distortion to facts.

coogar: surely, that's a joke....
rooney took more setpieces than van persie in 2012/13.

Van Persie took all the free kicks from the right, he took most corner kicks in my calculation. Again only figures will state the fact.

coogar: he probably did - berbatov played only 512 mins that season - which is less than 6 league games(540 mins). rooney was the main setpiece taker that season



whether he's a genius or not is not the bone of contention - what i am saying is..... is it fair to judge rooney with players who do not take setpieces? you have not been able to answer this question since last night.

berba/chicharito do not take freekicks(direct or indirect) cornerkicks or crossed freekicks. to then compare them with rooney in parameters such as assists, chance created, etc is tantamount to fraud!!!

Until we know how many of such contributed to his stat, we will keep relying on them (the actual stat). In your argument too, it means Berba and Chicharito were at advantaged to score from set pieces while Rooney was wholy disadvantaged. So it will be fraud to use same parameter to judge Rooney on goals scored.

Using same logic, you will have to credit Rooney much in 2012/13 for coming up with higher assists and chances created because RVP took more set pieces.

Manchester United have taken a boardroom decision that Wayne ‪#‎Rooney‬ will NOT be sold to Chelsea no matter how much money is offered. Their stance is irreversible and will represent a significant setback for José Mourinho, who had been under the impression a deal to take him to Stamford Bridge was only a matter of time.

Chelsea have already failed with two bids, offering £23m on 16 July and £25m on 4 August, and had been convinced United would eventually cave in rather than keep a player whose relationship with the club had deteriorated so badly.

On the contrary, the Glazer family is absolutely determined there will be a show of force at Old Trafford this summer and that means automatically rejecting any further Chelsea bid out of principle. United believe it would be weak in the extreme to bend to player power, no matter how messy it threatens to become before the end of the transfer window, and their position will not change if Rooney hands in a formal transfer request or goes public with his desire to leave.

Uniteds thinking is also driven by a recognition that Rooney belongs to a rare group of match-winning players and that, at 27, selling him to Chelsea would mean passing on a forward capable of scoring 20 to 30 goals a season for the next five years. United, in short, are in complete agreement with Gary Neville's view that they "would be mad to sell him".

Rooney, meanwhile, will have plenty to think about when he returns to United from international duty. The team begin the new Premier League season at Swansea City this weekend followed by Chelsea visiting Old Trafford on 26 August and a match littered with off-pitch politics.

No deal was ever likely before that game and Chelsea will discover in the coming weeks that United are not willing to bargain, at any price, after that game either. (Source: The Guardian) ‪#‎mufc‬ ‪#‎manunited‬ ‪#‎mufs‬

...................................

Offers for Nani also to be continued rejected.

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Una good night oooohhhhh!!!!

coogar: don't twist the cap - you told us we don't have drogba and terry to score from corner kicks. it seems you forget the things you say when debating. how did we score 15 goals from corner? you even argued yesterday rooney does not take cornerkicks for united? your lies have no boundaries!



i don't have that time to scour my resources - rooney and RVP created 15 goals from cornerkicks. i am sure rooney took 9 or 10 of those.



if you don't know cornerkick = setpiece, you would never know there's a committee that award dubious goals scored after the season after reviewing disputable goals.

this is from premier league site - 2010/11 reads 21 league goals + 4 assists for berbagod!

Our argument was about Rooney's 11 assists of 2011/12 season. You claimed he had the highest assists because he took set pieces. That season, United scored 12 from set plays. Rooney scored 6 penalties while Hernadez scored 1 penalty making 7 goals from 12 set pieces.

Are you now saying Rooney assisted the remaining 5 goals from set play? Then he must be a genius. But even if that were to be the case, Rooney still have 6 or more assist left which is still the highest.

See you tomorrow.

coogar: @ elampiro - the final nail in your coffin!

Goals scored via setpieces 2012/13 season

1) Manchester United – 26

2) Chelsea – 24

3) Stoke – 18

4) Manchester City – 18

5) Norwich – 18

6) Reading – 17

7) Arsenal – 17

Liverpool – 16

9) West Ham – 16

10) Sunderland – 15

11) Wigan – 14

12) Fulham – 14

13) West Brom – 14

14) Aston Villa – 13

15) Everton – 12

16) Southampton – 11

17) Newcastle – 10

18) Tottenham – 10

19) QPR – 7

20) Swansea – 5

ANALYSIS

•Manchester United scored more goals than anyone from set-pieces last season, mainly thanks to the outstanding deliveries from Wayne Rooney and Robin Van Persie from corners, which led to a huge 15 goals.

•Chelsea scored nine league penalties, more than anyone in the league, which helped them to second place in the set-piece goals table.

•The top three clubs in the real Premier League table, Manchester United, Manchester City and Chelsea all finished in the top three in the set-piece table. It pays to score from dead ball situations.

•Spurs and Swansea didn’t score a single penalty season, which is a major reason for them scoring from so few set-pieces. The passing brand of football both teams played last year also meant they were more inclined to score from open play than from dead ball situations.

•Unsurprisingly, Stoke scored more goals from set-pieces than any other side apart from United and Chelsea. Tony Pulis set his team out to be strong, physical and aggressive. They also launched nearly every freekick into the box whereas other teams often played it short instead. Stoke also scored three goals from their famous long throw, whereas no other club scored more than one.

•The other team who play this brand of football in the Premier League, West Ham, would hope to score more set-pieces next year with Andy Carroll waiting in the box.

•Norwich scored four goals direct from freekicks, thanks to Robert Snodgrass, but QPR, Stoke and West Brom failed to score one.

1. 2011/2012 season is what we are talking about.
i.e How many of Rooney's assists and chances created are from set pieces vis a vis other players.

2. You also have to narrow it down to individual players with link to support before it can be credible.

3. I am yet to see where FA added one goal to Tevez and Berbatov. I am still searching my links to no avail.

coogar: i eat you for lunch everyday - look at you, you clearly told us here that setplays do not count as chances created. how does it make you feel now that you have been undressed in public?



they do not! this 2011/12. rooney was the chief taker in the league. there was no van persie with us then.



statistics from opta is not credible? statistics that showed the bazillion of chances created by set piece is not credible? do you know how many minutes rooney played that season in the league? i can bet he took 70% of those setpieces - the same setpieces you lied to us do not count as chances created.

elampiro, give up - you have been sonned!



another weak point - the stats clearly showed united's number of goals in the league - 89 goals. how then can you expect FA cup and carling cup to be included? elampiro, you are desperately scraping the barrel now - people are laughing at you.



so in your 4 years of watching man utd, you do not know cornerkicks count as a setpiece? this is epic......somebody help me. elampiro doubts cornerkick is a type of setpiece - somebody quote this post for future use cos i am sure elampiro would dispute this later in the future.

another football lesson......

https://squawka.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Reading-Stats-and-Performance-Ratings-from-Squawka.com_.png




beating you in an argument is my favourite pastime now - it's like taking a toy from a child......

this is what the league would have looked like if we remove setpieces from united's goals...

https://i0.wp.com/www.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/s_38_398_League_with_goals_from_play_only.jpg?resize=400%2C270

1. The questions remain: You need to narrow the set play down to how many were scored from corner kicks, free kicks and penalty kicks. And who took those kicks.

2. United scored 10 penalties in all competition 2011/12 season, 6 penalties in the league. If you remove 6 or 10 goals from 12 goals how many is left?

Vagues stat tell nothing. Giggs, Nani, Young all take corner kicks and free kicks. At our level we cannot be relying on assumptions. Link.

coogar: we don't? really? why do we win championships then if we don't have players that score from set-plays? if i pull out stats now, you would quickly shut down your computer and hide.....

in short, let me put the nail in your coffin once and for all and claim another victory...

https://cdn.eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Chart-2-goal-assist-setplay-2011-2012.jpg

as you can see, 12 goals were assisted from setplay in 2011/12 and 45 chances were created from setplay. we had no van persie then - rooney was the only striker we had that took setplays. how won't his stats be skewed to make it look like he's the dog's bollocks.

https://cdn.eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Chart-1-chances-created-setplay-2011-2012.jpg


https://cdn.eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Table-1-chances-created-per-goal-assist-setplays-20112012.jpg

elampiro, underrate setplays at your own peril....

https://cdn.eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Table-2-percent-of-goals-scored-from-set-pieces.png

1. Hve you gotten any victory ever since? Which victory are you claiming?

2. So only 12 goals were assisted from set play all season and you were shouting Rooney Rooney Rooney. Giggs, Nani, Young and Cleverly account for about 80% of our set play.

3. So except you give us leak and narrow down you figure to individual players, your statistic is not credible. The Coogar I know will rush to publish such if Rooney actually had so much from set play.

4. Your stat also does not tell how many of these set plays are for Carling cup, FA cup etc.

5. You are also yet to establish that corner kicks account for the figures used for players. Now, if corner kicks were used, how come Rooney is said to be losing possession after 46 touches? What about the corner kicks he takes that fell to opponents, it should have reduced lose of possession/ball touch statistics.

6. Only 12 goals scored from set play. Remove United 10 penalties scored that season. How many left.

@ Coogar, you are going round circles. I think I am done. 70% of assists from set play, yet there is no evidence. Argumento irrelivanto. How many United goals are from set plays? Do we have a John Terry and Drogba who scores from set play? Giggs, young, Nani and Cleverly take 70-80% of our kicks.

BinghiNya: [b][/b]A dead rooney in United's history is far more useful than a RVP and Berbatov combined. Suarez's ban gave the golden boot to RVP. United have lost more matches without Rooney. Fergie is the cause of this hogwash

I have already given him that chart which shows clearly United struggle without Rooney. If Rooney wasn't so good, Chelsea would not want him for so much and also to retain his 250k pounds salary for two years remaining in his contract. Man United would have been happy to be free from 250k pounds headache. But look at the fight for the boy. Hot like fire.

Look at our guy training for England yesterday, laughing at Coogar and co.

coogar: of course - and rooney had only 21% accuracy in this statistics. 7 out of 34. a player with 79% faulty through-pass shouldn't even be in this discussion.



what's this elampiro chatting about - berbatov played a total of 512 league mins in 11/12. that's not even up to 6 full matches. rooney played 2839 mins that season, that's 32 full matches. only elampiro would expect a striker with 6 matches to match rooney that played 32 matches in the number of through-balls.



berbatov - 73 min/goal
rooney - 105 min/goal

who is more useless?



very weak point - every goal counts - every league victory = 3 points. hatrick against liverpool outperforms whatever rooney brought on board that season. berba is the king.



this is another lie - berbatov started 24 league games, scored 21 league goals. he did not appear in 4 games and was a substitute 8 times. he scored at least one in 11 league games out of 24 starts. that's a very remarkable performance.



stop lying - berbatov did not feature in all the 38 league fixtures. berbatov did not score from any penalty that season. in the games where penalties were won, where berba could have added to the number of opposition scored against, rooney took the penalty.



berbatov scored 21 league goals in 2010/11 - rooney scored 21 league goals in 2011/12(excluding penalties). however, rooney got more playing time in 2011/12 than berbatov did in 2010/11.



he's scored 15 - the reina save that was later scored can only be scored by the penalty taker. if giggs took the penalty, giggs would have also scored from the rebound.



united scored the most from set-pieces last season. google it!



berbatov had less minutes on the pitch to score his 21 league goals. berbatov's min/goal stat is better than rooney has ever managed at old trafford.

even from your dodgy calculations.....

rooney 09/10 - 22 goals in 2710 mins
rooney 11/12 - 21 goals in 2839 mins
berbatov 10/11 - 21 goals in 2210 mins

rooney(09/10) - 123.18 mins
rooney(11/12) - 135.19mins
------------------------------------
berbatov(10/11) - 105.20 mins




yet he's scored 48 international goals for bulgaria in 78 games while rooney is yet to hit 40 international goals in 83 games. berbatov mauled rooney for club and country.

[b]1. Berbatov never scored 21 goals. He scored 20. He was joint highest scorer with Tevez at 20 goals, but using traditional award style Tevez's name comes first.

When you add goals and assists, Rooney is far ahead of Berba in the two seasons under consideration irrspective of minutes played. So Rooney is far more useful.

2. You don't seem to understand the meaning of through balls. RVP was able to use Rooney's through ball to score against Aston Villa, and two UCL matches. He however missed one against Madrid. But Berbatov and Chicharito were clueless as to what to do with Rooney's through balls.

Rooney made 1.3 through balls every match and Berbatov and Chicharito could not read them well or chase properly after them. If they were real footballers, they would have read those Rooney's though balls well.

Also, how come three support strikers were only able to come up with 8 through balls all season of 38 matches. Is that not starving the lead striker? Unlike Rooney who made 1 through ball in a match, the combination of Berbatov, Chicharito and Welbeck made one through ball in 4 matches. What will Rooney use to score?

3. Berbatov scored his 20 goals in 10 league matches against weak oppositions. He featured in 32 league matches, maening he went dry in 22 league matches. Meanwhile there were six more matches dealt with without him. How was that a good season for any striker? Rooney spreads his goals and assists across several matches, hitting the big teams in the process.

4. In number of through balls in 2010/11 when both had same playing time. Berbatov went to sleep again, including Chicharito. Uncreative co-strikers.

5. Berbatov losses possession twice more often than Rooney despite playing in a less pressure area. Chicharito losses possession 3 times the time Rooney lost it despite Rooney playing in more pressured area.

6. Another point to support Berba was lazy in helping Rooney, he could only touch the ball once in 2 minutes from a support role whereas Rooney on the heat lead position touched the ball every minute and reatined possession twice better.

Berbatov the hyena should have been sold to Carlisle. He was lazy in using Rooney's through balls, now see how RVP uses them better. [/b]

coogar: the most meaningful stats have been provided in that chart. anything else is irrelevant as far as strikers are concerned. RVP and chicharito destroyed rooney.



the stats we are analysing are in the premier league - who's talking about the CL? in 10/11 and 11/12, berbatov destroyed rooney in the league. it isn't even debatable.



plenty of them - rooney only amass stats from set-plays. rooney was taking everything.



stop this village way of argument.
OPTA defined chance created as a pass that directly leads to a shot from an intentional assist. each time rooney's corner or indirect freekick has produced a shot from a team-mate, a chance was created



that's the same rooney that stays on the edge of the box looking for spill-over when corners or indirect freekicks are floated into the box. rooney isn't vidic or evra. his heading ability in setplay situation is below average.



can't you read? berbatov had 1 accurate through-pass in 2 and chicharito had 1 accurate through-pass in 3. rooney had 7 in 34. it means he wasted 27 through-balls out of his sheer idiocy and lack of common sense.



what's the point in throwing passes away when they cannot be accurate? 27 inaccurate passes in 34 is a disgrace. that's an error percentage of a whopping 79%. this simply means berbatov/chicharito would rather take a different option than look for a hopeless through-pass.



they both scored more goals than rooney in that season. if berba scored 21 league goals in 10/11, how come rooney could only score half of those in spite of having more playing time than berba? rooney is useless.



rooney is the least creative striker in man utd. in the last 6 seasons, he's scored from 15 penalty kicks in the premier league. if we remove 15 goals from rooney's creativity then he's dead in the water........



berbatov bagged a hatrick against liverpool(rooney is yet to match that feat in 9 seasons at OT). liverpool are united's fiercest rivals of all time. berba is a giant where lesser mortals like rooney can be. i won't even talk about the other big teams berba has scored against before/after his united career in england.

i have more respect for a striker that scored 21 league goals without a single penalty than rooney who cannot top the scorer's charts without pen. the moment RVP took over the penalty-taking task, rooney was anonymous on the charts.

look at their international career and weep for rooney. chicharito and berbatov have scored more goals for their respective countries than rooney can ever achieve for england - yet, england have the better players as a supporting cast. rooney is an overrate piece of animal shyte.

1. (THROUGH BALL definition) 'A pass made through the opposing teams defense into open space for a teammate to run on to.'

You said Berba and Chicha played behind Rooney in 2011/12. How come they made a combine 5 through balls all season and only 3 were accurate? Welbeck made 3 through balls and all three were accurate? Now all three support striker made only 8 through balls in 38 matches all season. You can see how they starved Rooney when he led. But only Rooney delivered 34 through balls and all three other strikers were only able to win 7 of them. Ineffective co-strikers who can't deliver through balls.

Berbatov and Chicharito are really 'starvers'. They starve their team mates and are highly unproductive. Coupled with fact that they lose possession only few times of touching the ball with little pressure. Rooney touches the ball several times over without losing it and he does it under immense pressure.

2. Berbatov three goals against Liverpool and one more agaist Everton were only his commendable achievements. The rest goals were against weak teams- 5 against Blackburn, 3 against Birmingham, 2 against blackpool, sunderland, fulham, bolton etc. He can't face big oppositions.

3. In a season of 38 fixtures, his EPL goals were in 10 fixtures. He went dry in 28 fixtures. He was not the reason we won the league. Rooney's goals and assists across several matches were more useful to the team.

Berbatov led the attack and could not score in 28 fixtures in the season. Shame. Rooney playing from midfield that season contributed to goals more via goals and assists and won more matches.

4. In 2011/12 Rooney scored far more goals Berbatov can ever dream of. Discount his penalty, his remaining 25 goals beat Berba 20 of 2010/11.

5. You claimed Rooney scored 15 penalty. He scored 13/14 depending the Reina's save he shot in again. From his 156 goals he has just 14 penalies therein.

6. You are still repaeting chances from corners. United is weak in converting from corners, most are headed away by opponents.

Berbatov will have Rooneys goals to ever chase in his life. 2009/10 Rooney 26 goals 4 penalties = 22. Yet he won some. Perhaps 24 goals without penalties.
2011/12 Rooney scored 27 goals, less 6 penalties 21 better than Berba. Add 2 penalties won, Rooney ended on 23 goals.

The £4m striker who can't rise in big games and CL should go to Doncaster United.

coogar: the new chart i added was 2012/13 season and i added that to highlight rooney vs RVP under the same manager, playing with the same team mates under the same circumstance. rooney was disgraced by RVP and chicharito!

in your other post, you managed to contrive all sorts of bullshyte. chances created is a statistic skewed by the fact that rooney is the chief set-piece taker. corner kicks, direct and indirect freekicks, etc are all chance created. berbatov and chicharito do not take set pieces and therefore are disadvantaged in that particular stat.

assist stat is also the same - 70% of rooney's assists are from set plays. if his peers don't take set plays, then the stats cannot be used to judge efficiency.

through balls - rooney's accuracy is a disgrace for a player of his calibre. berbatov 50%, chicharito 33%, rooney 21%. in 2010/11, berbatov 39%, chicharito 29% rooney 32%

this simply shows rooney is the worst in playing a through-pass. he slows down the attack by holding on to the ball way longer than his fellow strikers and what buoys his stats are the stats he gets from set plays. strip rooney off set-plays and he's not better than cameron jerome.

rooney is the worst striker @ man utd since 2010/11. berbatov and chicharito destroyed him for 2 seasons and RVP killed his dream last season as a united player. moyes was right - rooney is now a spare tyre!

1. Until you produce a similar comprehensive chart for 2012/13 season, anything else will be useless.

2. Berbatov destroyed Rooney in your eyes? Yet he was sold for £4m. 5 UCL goals in 4 years. He can only destroy weak teams.

3. Until you are able to prove how many goals that were scored from Rooney's corner kicks and free kicks, your allegation will remain in fallacy- argumento irrelevanto.

3. Chances are not created from corner kicks as regard stat computations. If corner kicks and free kicks were used, Rooney will not need to touch the ball 46 times before losing possession whereas Chicha loses it after 16 touches and Berba 20+. This is despite Rooney getting the ball under pressure.

4. If Rooney had not taken corner kicks, his goal tallies would have gone up drastically, because he would surely have scored from corner kicks..

5. Through balls and Accurate through balls: which stat are you referring to? Take a look again and laugh at your Berba and Chicha. Rooney does a through ball in every 68 minute, Berba in over 200 minutes and Chicharito in almost 500 minutes.

6. Rooney did 34 through balls, while Berba and Chicha only 3 and 2 respectively all season. Uncreative strikers.

7. 2010/11 season, Rooney 13, Berba 7 in same playing time. And hernadez only 2 thru balls in a half playing time of the other two.

Rooney is the most creative striker in the EPL and also highest scorer over 6 years period. Despite leading the attack he doesn't lose possession- strong on the ball, creative and versatile. Apart from goal scoring position, which players give Chicharito ball under pressure? Only Rooney, Welbeck, Nani and Giggs are capable of receiving pass and controlling the ball under pressure. And stat shows Rooney receives it far more often. That's why our game is weak when he doesn't play.

Berbatov has only 5 Champions league goals all his life. He can only score against weak teams as Blackburn Rovers. Chicharito is also clueless against European oppositions. RVP losses goal sense against European big shots when the going gets tough.

The guy has added another chart which shows Chicharito is EPL best player. Why jumping from chart to chart?

If it's statistics, you should just put Chicharito ahead of RVP, Dzeko, Tevez, Ba, Suarez, Bale etc. The hyena is just a situational player who apart from Chelsea shines only in dying minutes against weak teams.

coogar: RVP was an arsenal striker in 11/12. arsenal are inferior to united so the comparison really is between chicharito vs rooney or berbatov vs rooney. berbatov destroyed rooney in those 2 seasons, same as chicharito.



how many times rooney touches the ball is as a result of his cluelessness and his set-plays. rooney is involved with throw-ins, cornerkicks, freekicks and penalties. too many touches without releasing the ball is cluelessness - this is why van persie plays more throughballs than rooney.



that's impossible - rooney cannot play as many minutes as van persie. van persie had 38 apps, rooney has never had 36 league apps in his career. he's overweight, injury prone and ultimately, very unreliable. berbatov destroyed rooney's minutes/goal in the last 2 seasons. he almost doubled rooney's efforts in 2010/11. so far, berbatov is the best amongst the strikers.



berbatov is the best, rooney was the weakest for united in 2010/11. berbatov destroyed rooney's shooting accuracy in his last 2 seasons



RVP was in arsenal then. rooney's chance conversion is the weakest at man utd. berbatov doubled rooney's chance conversion in those 2 seasons at united. chicharito murdered rooney in 2010/11.



welbeck, chicharito and berbatov destroyed rooney in this category. rooney is the weakest in man utd.



touching the ball more is cluelessness - RVP receives the ball and releases it almost immediately to a threatening effect. he makes a through-ball pass every 61 minutes, rooney does so every 84 mins. RVP is quicker with his decision whilst rooney takes forever to know what to do with the ball. those fatty cells have blocked the motor neurones in his central nervous system.



welbeck 86%, berbatov/chicharito 83%. once more, rooney was the weakest at man utd. in 2010/11, berbatov had 80%, chicharito 82% and rooney could only manage 77%. once again, dimitar sodomised rooney.



the others are more purposeful with the ball - unlike rooney he takes the ball to blind alleys and does nothing with the move.



aided by the 6 penalties he scored out of 7.



stop lying - the chance conversion stats are there. berbatov had 46% to rooney's 22%. berbatov's shooting accuracy is 60% to rooney's 58%. chicharito even had a better conversion rate to fat rooney. in front of goal so far, berbatov/chicharito are better at striking than rooney.



rooney was the weakest in this category in man utd. flick-ons berbatov had 36%, rooney 33%, chicharito 47%, welbeck 35%.

in the lay-off accuracy, welbeck 87%, berbatov 92%, 92%, rooney 90%.



rooney is the worst striker @ man utd. berbatov and chicharito destroyed him before RVP came on board for 2 consecutive seasons. when RVP arrived, he destroyed rooney as well.



overall, RVP, chicharito and berbatov showed they have what it takes to be a striker whilst rooney showed he's more of a midfielder than a striker. rooney had the worst shooting accuracy and the worst chance conversion under ferguson. it's a disgrace that a striker prides himself in the qualities a midfielder should have.

rooney is the worst striker @ man utd - QED

A. Now you have shifted the goal post again. If RVP was not relevant to the statistics why did you include him. You also used this same stat to buttress your argument that he was justified to have been given the lead role. Now you are deleting him.

B. If you are comparing Chicharito, Berbatov, Welbeck and Rooney, you need to give us 2012/13 complete stat using the original format, and the prior years as well. Let's not jump from chart to chart. Lets keep to same chart pattern for all the years being reviewed.

However, lest use what you have provided to judge first;

1. Touch per loss of possession: Rooney needs to touch the ball 42 times before he losses possession while Berbatov is 29, Chicharito only 16 and RVP 29.

Rooney is the strongest on the ball. Imagine that stat is for the season you claimed he led the attack, and even the other season he still beats all hands down. If someone who led the attack hardly lost the ball, what does that tell you?

2. Assist. Rooney beats them all hands down. Berbatov and Chicharito could only come up with with combine 7 assists in two seasons whereas Rooney had 15 to himself alone. Who will want such uncreative strikers in their team?

Mind you, in 2010/11 Rooney and Berba had almost same playing time. Chachito had a fair time in both seasons. Both guys playing time added together far outstripped Rooney's.


3. Chances created: Rooney led Berbatov, Welbeck, Chichrito and RVP by the miles. Meaning he made far used of the ball better. The rest are highly clueless.

4. Min per chance created: Rooney needs just 37 minutes to create a chance while Berbatov needs a full match to do same and Chicharito more than a one match to create just one chance. And you want such uncreative players in your team?

5. CLear cut chance created: Berba and Chicharito went to sleep again.

6. Total through balls: Rooney dust both Chicha and Berbatov in both seasons.

7. Accurate through balls: Rooney by the miles dust both of them again despite even having same playing time with Berba in 2010/11.

7b. Mins per through balls: Rooney beat them again hands down in both seasons. Berbatov and Chicharito needs over 256 and 500 minutes respectively to get a through ball while Rooney does it average of 68 minutes.

8. Clear cut chances missed: Chicharito missed 22 in both season in far less playing time. Rooney missed 23 in far higher plying time. Meaning Rooney did far better. Berbatov missed far more in 2010/11 than Rooney. In both seasons Rooney had total of 47 chances, he scored 24. Berbatov had 31 he scored 17, while Chicharito had 38 and scored 16. Meaning Chicharito was the weakest in converting clear cut chances, not Rooney as you assumed. Berbatov could be said to be stronger in converting chances in those two seasons only, but against weak opponents.

9. Total lay offs: Rooney finished all of them here in the two separate seasons even when taken to per minute.

10. Accurate lay offs: Rooney sent all of them to the gutter again in the two seasons.

11. Loss of possession; Chicharito losses possession far more.

12. Open play: Rooney is involved in the open play far more and even keeps the ball longer. He is involved every minute while Chicharito is involved every three minute and Berba 2 minutes.

13. Open play pass accuracy: Rooney is slightly behind by inconsequential percentage but it can be understood because he touches the ball more and since according to you he led the attack, he was far more under pressure.

coded guy: @ Elampiro

I thought you said you will keep quiet for some time, atleast till the season starts. Now you don go resurrect matter/argument chat that is supposedly forgotten so that you and Coogar go come do round....wetin sef, I can't remember.

We are already talking about other things u wan derail the yarns again.

U no dey tire!!!

No be as them they place Rooney below his true football value? The thing dey pepper me. Walai! Which eye dem dey use watch this ball sef?

As I really look at the stat closely e con wow me.

It is truly Ironic that Rooney led our attack in 2011/12, and statistics shows that he touched the ball far more often than Berbatov, Chicharito and Welbeck who were alleged to have played behind him. Now I wonder who really led the attack.

How else can one define a legend?

.........


I beg Coogar to give link to this your stat, it is very comprehensive and tells so much on a shot. We need it too for 2012/13 season and all previous seasons.

coogar: whether you remove it or not, berbatov had a better output in 2010/11 than rooney did in 2011/12. matter of fact, berbatov outperformed rooney in his last 2 seasons before he left for fulham....

https://cdn.eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/RvP-compared-to-United-strikers.jpg

@ Coogar, did you really look at this table? It is telling us RVP is the weakest among the four strikers. And Rooney is best on key parameters.

One thing is clear again, Rooney is involved in play/action far more than the rest (the opportunists hyenas). Look at how many times he touches the ball.

Rooney's minutes/goal ratio is better than RVP's. Meaning if Rooney had played same time he would have won the golden boot. If SAF had not rested him in some matches because of UCL and his early injury that season, it will be a different story.

RVP shooting accuracy is the weakest.

RVP chance conversion is the weakest.

RVP loss of possession is the highest.

Rooney touched the ball 2217 times and only lost it 54 times.
RVP touched the ball in 1761 times and lost it 61 times.

Open play pass accuracy. RVP 79% Rooney 81%

Shooting accuracy, Rooney defeated RVP.

Minute/open play pass, only Rooney makes a pass in the open play every one minute. The other players every 3 minutes confirming they are truly hyenas- box sitting strikers. Only Welbeck tries a little again.

RVP missed 25 clear cut chances, Rooney only 15. When taken to per minutes, Rooney did better.

On the per minute, Rooney also did better on clear cut chances scored. Meaning if he leads attack, he is more likely to convert chances.


Accurate Flicks on- Rooney did better on per minute.

Accurate Lay off- Rooney by the miles



So who is the better player and striker?

Bookmakers are so right. Rooney is very strong on the ball.

Overall, RVP and Chicharito including Berbatov are truly opportunists hyenas. Confirmed!!! No hustle/hunting. Kill make I chop.

SailorXY: How is that possible when Giggs keep starting? No one develops SITTING on the bench! Play the developing dudes #simples

Moyes didn't want to gamble yesterday. It was a one off match he needed to win compulsorily. May be Kagawa can start some league games, from there he can pick.

Love is not blind at all. It is money that can actually blind.....

@XailorXY, you and this your Kagawa.

That guy needs to sit up, else he will use his hands to ask for a return to Bundesliga.

Ogbeche77: the spambot automatically hides post & compensates you with a ban of 1hr each time it detects spam..
I just checked your ban log, you have never at anytime been banned by chamotex, its the spambot at work

Spambot is a big fool without computer brain. I suspect there could be someone sending it after me, otherwise I see none of its use so far, even for nairaland as a whole. It should be scrapped. Let humans do their work they are paid for.

The papers have come again: Man United to offer 70m pounds + Nani or Chicharito for Bale before the end of the week.

chamotex: I don't even think I have ever banned anyone on this forum...I'm probably the most lenient mod on this forum.
Except its a troll, in which case I just hide the post...I let everyone argue and fight it out. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.
It was probably the spambot that banned you.

How come the spambot comes immediately you hide my post? As soon as my post is hidden, I won't be able to post again for several hours.

Yes, this went viral last week. SO wonderful.

Vidic plays down Rooney exit talk
Goal.com
By Jamie Dunn | Goal.com – 14 hours ago

"Any team in the world would like to have Robin [van Persie] and Wayne but like I said, Manchester United is the biggest club in the world and we want to have the top players," Vidic told reporters.

"I think the top players want to play for Man United and there's no question about it."

Vidic also moved to dismiss much of the talk surrounding Rooney as speculation, having heard transfer rumors about himself in past summers.

He added: "I think it's the best club in the world and there's so much speculation, so much talk about if he will leave or stay.

"I have to say, the last four years I was in that position as well, people talking I will leave the club when I'm still here and I am enjoying playing for this club. [There is] nothing else to say."

Let's take a look at the team that played against Wigan:

I wanted to repeat the match before I analyse, but let me just hit.

1. I am okay with that defence line that started but unfortunately, Rafael is injured.

2. I particularly like the Vidic and Jones pairing, Moyes got it right. I can bet now that Jones will always be in that defence. The way he went to middle to mark and recovered quickly was commendable. But most noticeable was the way he covered for Rafael when he overlapped. Jones stood between the number 5 and 2 positions when Rafael went forward and he dealt with all the threats. I did not pay attention to Evra on this occasion, it could then mean he did well, coupled with the fact he delivered the crossing to RVP for the opening goal.
(b) When Rafael is out and we have both Smalling and Jones in the defence, who should be in the middle and who fills the right back better? Jones looks stronger in the middle than Smalling except for Smalling's height advantage in heading away crosses coming into the box. On the right back, Jones is more difficult to beat too, but Smalling is better with the ball. So, it is a tough one for the coach.
(c) Smalling made a terrible mistake yesterday he should never again allow to happen. In a UCL match, the ball will be in the net before he looks back. He went for a ball and mistimed it, then the ball bounced over him. Too poor for a pro.

3. Carrick was voted man of the match. I think he will command the position again. Cleverly was good.

4. De Gea was properly positioned in all the threats even though they were not many.

5. In the attack I think ball retention was a bit of a problem.

6. Zaha vs Valencia. Zaha is here to stay, but I think Valencia's maturity showed when he came in as compared to Zaha. Zaha will be great if only he is played regularly, allowed to make mistakes while perfecting his magic over a few years. Meaning, like we did for Ronaldo, everyone has to be patient with some disappointments.

7. Giggs and Welbeck: This is an area where the men on the bench might get some hope of having playing time. I don't know whether to say if Welbeck was misused. I saw him rooted in the last 3rd majority of the time instead of his usual drives from the midfield.

Okay.

But I don't understand why mod should ban me severally in the heat of argument saying ''post after few hours''. It is confusing, you see Coogar repeating same charts over and over, insulting, no action or even verbal warning.

florett: rooney did what for 9 years? ruud & ronaldo sold more football shirts than rooney when they were here.

Mr man, Rooney shirt has sold the highest in EPL history.

Someone said that is the reason he earns 250k/week, that I cannot verify. However, if he was so poor as you people suggest, United won't be battling to keep a him at 250k. The real men who know football.

chamotex: I don tire for this elampiro mehn
Are you related to Wayne Rooney?
I hope Rooney leaves so you can pack your bags and follow him to his destination and save us from this debacles.

My own worry too is how Rooney is so much hated here. In other United forums, I can go months without mentioning Rooney.

Last season I had pictures of RVP displayed on my facebook and blackberry wall/DP as much as Rooney. The next was Chicharito. I only displayed Kagawa once all season because he didn't impress me.

But seeing the hate of Rooney here makes me begin to see things in a different light. Everywhere else they say Rooney is great despite the current situation. Even when RVP is seen as a new bride, Rooney is given his respect.

Contrary to what you people think, I never really had a player I loved more than others as such. I only knew Rooney was so great for the team. May be this thread now has made me to have favourite players in the team.

Finally, everyone here is saying they are tired of elampiro, for the fact that the argument has been between elampiro and Coogar goes to show the cabal that exist here. I know all along that even the moderator has been taking side with Coogar.

I want to stay off for a while. You guys can carry go. See you when the season starts.

coogar: whether you remove it or not, berbatov had a better output in 2010/11 than rooney did in 2011/12. matter of fact, berbatov outperformed rooney in his last 2 seasons before he left for fulham....

https://cdn.eplindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/RvP-compared-to-United-strikers.jpg

1. How many times will you bring up this chart which I had earlier punctured?

2. If Berbatov was so good in his last two seasons, why did he worth only £4m pounds and why was he sold? United won't even sell Rooney for £40m today.