₦airaland Forum

Why Do So Many Black People (including Nigerians) Believe In God?

Whilst I believe that everyone has a right to their belief and I respect that, there seems to be a taboo amongst the “black” community concerning unbelief/atheism from my observation.

Lol the opening post made me laugh but in a good way (laughing with the OP not at the OP although initially it was the other way around)
Maybe because I’m quite contrary but personally I love being alone; there is a sort of luxury in solitude...but I’m still in my youth so...

jamace: Oh dear! I hate to hear/see a loved one cry. Be of good cheers dear. Weep no more because your maker and helper, the LORD, who made heaven and earth is with YOU in this moment. May God restore your spirit in full soonest. Cheers.

For medicinal quotes, yes there are. Google "medicinal quotes", and make your choice.

Ah I feel like a baby for crying but thanks even though I don’t abide by the lord...when I said medicinal I meant healing/uplifting lol...
But I’ll just drop a little general quote before I leave:

Half the things we worry about never even happen

No Martian that’s not what I meant. (However there are buildings that are labelled as “modern architecture” but are adaptations of what existed in certain past societies. As design and construction evolves so could the function but for the fact that the pyramids are souvenirs of history will always make them be of note).

All continents had pyramids so the fact the pyramids cannot be replicated today (not because the functions are of no use because that is arguable) but because the ancient world possessed a knowledge on how to create pyramids which hasn’t translated in our modern world or appears so. I would thus say it’s partly a matter of pride because in a society that claims to be the most technologically advanced the secret and knowledge of how to create or recreate certain constructions seems to have evaded the modern era. In today’s society with all it’s advancement we are supposed to know in extension as to what was known then. It’s largely about knowing not necessarily about production but through production some knowledge can be sought.

And whilst there’ll be a difference of opinions concerning what you regard as “pointless...unproductive” etc it’s mainly the science behind the pyramids that has left people puzzled. Take Stonehenge for example. I’m sure not many are concerned about recreating the structure but if Stonehenge was made by people in the past then people today will be largely concerned with how they formed the structure, what knowledge was used etc...it’s a way of understanding past societies and how much they knew but I guess that tends to lean more on the archaeological/anthropological side than technological.

If something may not serve as a function in today’s world should it be ignored when it may possess hidden knowledge?

I haven't thought about it much but I think it entails emotions and sentiments about the things we value or hold sacred. Maybe whatever we attach some aethestic value to evoke that "spiritual" emotion. The other type of "spiritual" with its magic beans and totalitarian sky wizards is just crazy talk to me.

Hmmm...
I’ve been thinking...there was a part in things falls apart where the villagers labelled the bicycle (the first time they have ever seen it) as an iron horse...I wonder if some people who may not have had any prior knowledge to certain things label what they see with something they try to understand it by...maybe that’s how some of these titles which may appear mythical to the majority has come to hold meaning for some people...*just thinking out loud I’m most probably wrong though*...

@PAGANJA

oh i see. . Again it all depends on the method, the person performing the rituals and other factors. usually if it doesnt work, they try to develop new methods or improvise on the old one and most of all, try to find out WHY it went wrong.

So could one call it a trial an error? In a way that’s pretty much experimenting...

What if a particular system worked for a group of pagans, could another pagan group assume some of those practices that seems to be effectual for the other group?

we do not really go by the book because we dont have any. some more advanced Pagan religions have books, but they are not LAW. they are merely guidelness or opinions, etc written on it or a written catalogue of the religion, since most Pagan faiths are passed on Orally, through artefacts, sites, etc. .

So paganism is more open-ended?

***

@Kay17 Interesting and beautifully composed...except religion (at least the Abrahamic faiths) has concluded everything for us so thus searching for truth isn’t an aim when it is claimed they posses the truth.

I’ll begin by assuring I mean no ill intention in asking these questions and I hope no one will take offence as that is neither my motive but I sincerely would like to hear the opinions of Muslims regarding this.


Whilst I appreciate that it is entirely the prerogative (both as a religious and human right) of all Muslimahs to wear what befits them and of course maintaining their faith requirements as a priority I’ve often wondered about the social effect the burka may inadvertently cause in terms of communication.

When it comes to communication there are many components to consider – visual being one of those – thus the burka immediately makes it difficult in communication in this instance. In such cases the full face veil may pose as a wall concealing the emotions/visual language of the anonymous party clad in the burka.
Thus is the burka a barrier in social settings that often times relies on the visual? i.e. court cases, interviews etc...

I understand that wearing such apparel may wholly be out of piety but whilst I do find it quite honourable of Muslim women who dress moderately partly to avert lustful attention in so doing assisting their brethren do not fall into temptation such clearly shows that there has been a consideration for their male neighbours.

Thus I wonder could not that consideration be extended to other neighbours that may rely on visual language as an important factor in communication?

jamace, I've been feeling down lately do you have any medicinal quotes for me?

@Platteon

Therefore, spirituality, in this sense, is the reason the Egyptian science, except for the ego-inspired temples and pharoahnic monuments, did not survive...

Interesting...I guess when the spiritual disposition of a nation/individual changes that must completely affect the sciences it’s combined with...


@PAGAN9JA interesting write up

I dont get you. Our systems have never been ineffective. You will always notice that Pagan Civilizations reach a very large height (their Golden Age) and then suddenly the monotheists reduce their civilizations to rubble. E.g., the INcas, the Greeks, etc. .

I was thinking out loud but there are systems that don’t work and instead of scrapping it completely some people revise it i.e. a ritual to invoke rain may involve the sacrifice of a chicken...if the rain fails to come then the adherents may go back to the drawing board and may conclude they used the wrong colour chicken as opposed to scrapping it completely etc...that’s kinda what I meant by ineffective.

Martian: [b] "The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exists as an independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot.

But I am persuaded that such behavior on the part of the representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests."
[/b]

Remarkable.

Also thanks for sharing the full quote that I embedded in my OP.

By the way Martian what is your opinion regarding "spirituality" that isn't governed by a divine entity or personal god?

@Martian

We have a "building" floating above the earth. We have a robotic vehicle the size of a VW van arriving on my home planet in 3 months and I don't think "god" had anything to do with them. So what's so special about the pyramids and I don't think the egyptians performed brain surgery!!!

But that’s exactly the point...even in today’s world with all these technological breakthroughs...no one in this often touted most technological advanced era has yet to produce those pyramids again …now isn’t that slightly odd?...imagine what type of materials those Ancient Egyptians were using...and what knowledge they possessed...I doubt the materials that was employed back then could have been more advanced than the apparatus that exist today yet such architecture cannot be replicated...I wonder why.

ckkris: Big SCIENCE says there is God, small science says there is no God. Can you see why?

@E-Engineer

to understand the terms spirituality and science better, let me give u an example
imagine going to bed and waking up in a place quite different from ur home or ur environment, just imagine waking up in a garden or forest where everything seems to be available for u, everything like water, food and imagine having some new desires in that new world of yours, desires which are easily fulfilled, what would be the first thing u wld think upon getting there? simple- who brought me here and why did you bring me here, being in that type of pseudoworld, u wld know that the purpose of ur appearing there is beyond u and u either get to know who is responsible and love the person for that or hate him for that

The scenario I equate “spirituality” with is adoption.
A curious child upon discovering they were adopted may desire to find their natural mother in order to find out more about their origin and even to find out more about themselves so the child is thus left with the question...where does one begin to search for their natural mother?

Religion is contentment. Contentment with what another has presented as the revealed “truth”

Spirituality is explorative and about discovery which is in parallel to science.

If I was in that world you have painted with “desires which are easily fulfilled” first of all I would ask what purpose am I supposed to serve and I would be very apprehensive not amazed that my desires are being easily fulfilled – what’s the catch? would be the second thing going through my mind and of course who brought me there.

if the motive of science is just honor or a nobel award then it wont be that powerful, if the motive for science is actually to find the beginning and the end, then that is noble and i believe many scientists have the latter as a motive for their work but modern day science has a little problem, they want to discover everything without believing there actually was a conscientious decision to create life and existence [ simply put, they dont believe in GOD

Should the motives behind science be noble or just delivering facts regardless of motives...if not that kinda betrays emotion which is interesting...
“god” is synonymous with religion, maybe source would thus be a more neutral term...and science does seek to find a/the “source” conversely some religion does not believe in some of the components of science.

science is limited without spirituality but the average eye cant see that,maybe because we are overwhelmed by such modern inventions that we now think we are gods

I actually think it’s because there’s a lack of understanding of past inventions…much knowledge has indeed been hidden unfortunately.

Hhmm...science and spirituality actually have the same objective – discovering truth
Science operates (or has only been able to operate thus far) on a material level.
Spirituality on the other hand operates on the immaterial level.
Science seeks for universal truth whilst spirituality may find truths that only hold for certain individuals however some personal truths may indeed serve the general population/universe.
Material science is limited but spirituality may also be limited to a specific individual(s).

my above statement might raise the thought in ur mind, " but humanity is at its greatest height ever"

Lol that thought has never crossed my mind.

5000 years ago, people performed brain surgery, pharoah menes diverted the course of the nile something that baffled hydraulic engineers as late as 1905, sculptures were made with such incredible artistry and realism, feminine cosmetics as profound as modern day ones were used, mighty temples were built

There is something I find rather fascinating about those who were/are not technologically dependent or as technologically advanced by today's standards yet still quite advanced .

true spirituality cant exist without science

+1

people make the mistake of equating spirituality with institutions such as the medieval catholic church and some other religious institutions

+1

@thehomer

Problems often arise with the use of a word like "spirituality". In some cases, it would be tied to mythical beings like spirits, ghosts, Gods, demons etc. In others, it could refer to emotions that are present in pretty much all people. If it is being used in the first sense, I would say it is less significant. If it is being used in the second sense, I would say I would say it is more significant than in the first sense but ultimately depends on the person and the issue under consideration.

Quite interesting. I believe you are right concerning different definitions stapled to spirituality – there can be an “inner”(self) and “outer”(universe) facet regarding spirituality...

Do you think emotions can guide one to a/the truth?


@E-Engineer

did you know that the real motive for such wonderful engineering works and scientific advances in egypt were spiritual, they built pyramids because they were driven to connect to eternity because they believed in immortality

Immortality as a goal in today’s world has not necessarily been erased as science have and is still finding means in which to prolong human life besides wouldn’t immortality (in our current physical state) allow for specific gods to be made redundant?
Thus does not immortality betray a god-complex?

@PAGAN9JA I hear you however in today’s definition religion qualifies as the worship of “god(s)” ( albeit spirituality doesn’t necessarily satisfy that term – spirituality is more exploratory mostly of oneself whilst religion is largely fixed and followed by a collective hence spirituality is moreso subjective unlike religion which objectifies that in which by nature could or should exist as a subjective matter. If religion is static it cannot evolve with the world talk less of science so I thus wonder about spirituality....

They will say that their beliefs are A way of life, a routine, a daily-ritual.

What if the system proves to be ineffectual? Do believers thus change it or do they seek other alternatives? Isn’t one of the major differences between “religion” and science is that science can be revised?
Must people remain loyal to a system that doesn’t seem to be working?

PAGANISM IS THE LINK BETWEEN RELIGION AND SCIENCE.

Expand please...





*Interesting replies so far I’ll respond when I’m more freer.*

buzugee: ahhhh nice one mademoiselle Emofine. well i dont think the lord is looking to be conveyed by mortals. in fact the more messed up you are, the more he wants you. LUKE 5 VS 32[b] I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.[/b] so any man who thinks he can convey the most highs essence is a prideful and arrogant person and will be brought low. hope that answers your question

Lol I get what you're saying but it doesn't really satisfy my query...look at my reply to Ptolomeus...I wasn't really talking about god being drawn to "messed up" people but wondered how "his" faithful subjects may project the portrait of a "perfect" god.

JeSoul: ^I always just love this guys take on topics. There is never a dull moment with Buzugee in the house :-)

Lol same here...to be honest I only scanned this thread in the hope of reading Buzugee’s interpretation.

However I can see the angle in which Buzugee addresses. At the time when Rebecca was pregnant with her twins (Jacob and Esau) the “Lord” told her that she is carrying “two nations”.

@OP warn him...If I teach am hin no go win gold

Chimezie198 u wan mek I write your own biography?...see as u don provide stats lol

Aha'm bu emofine e toro m ogologo and m'di oji in complexion...

@ Ptolomeus Hola amigo

When I said "representative" I meant that anyone that adheres to a particular belief-system thus adopts the title i.e. "Muslim", "Hindu" etc...and for an outsider to initially comprehend the personality of these deities they may observe and study the individuals that call themselves "Muslims", "Hindu's" etc etc...and as humans we often make mistakes thus if some people are seen as ambassadors of their "perfect" god could such imperfect people translate that nature accordingly.

How are you by the way?

buzugee: your initial question will be solid if you can show me where in the bible that it says that God is perfect.

As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.
Ps 18:30


Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matt 5:48

i would like to see it stated before i even attempt to logically look at the question

...okay please proceed...

@E-Engineer

in every organization or unit there must be a head or motive[ driving force] and there would be parts

the reason why there is a dilemna btw science and religion is primarily bcoz of conflicting roles

So science and religion are vying for the head position or certain features of each just clash?

Albeit for the spiritual/religious person (well for some belonging to this populace) spirituality often takes priority.

spirituality should be the real drive behind science, the desire to connect more with the spiritual world and to please the deity, lets take for example, ancient kemet or Egypt...

This is rather interesting...but should pleasing a deity be a prime aim? I ask because what if particular deities do not want their subjects to acquire certain knowledge?...is this part of the face-off between science and religion – wanting to know more than what some systems permit?
Thus maybe it depends on the type of belief systems – for example worshiping a deity or belonging to a system that encourages more awareness of the science of the universe as opposed to adhering to a system that shuns discovery thus only serving to be an inhibitor and concealer of knowledge and science. As such some may lose faith in all belief systems and shun any notions of spirituality altogether but there are imitations which may cause some to render spirituality as a myth or blind.

But I can agree that Ancient Egypt (which is a good example) allowed for spirituality to be relevant in their sciences and perhaps were even better for it.
Spirituality is diverse and so is science – well at least the way in which one perceives the sciences – Ancient Egyptians for example.

I believe science and spirituality can have a relationship that is mutualistic but when one tries to eclipse the other or tries to make the other redundant I believe the result can be negative but more dangerous if it’s spirituality demoting science than the other way around in my opinion.

But I do wonder how are the both coupled if spirituality is subjective whereby some spirituality even contradicts each other... wouldn't that thus effect how science is understood by some individuals with a spiritual inclination?

Engineer, do you think science is limited without spirituality? Or maybe even less partial as spirituality is subjective? And do you think spirituality is empty without science?

P.S. Religion is different to spirituality but I believe the modern man has somehow conflated the two terms.

@ OP THE TYPE OF QUESTIONS U ASK, I WONDER WHAT UR TRYING TO DISCOVER

Lol honestly I really try to supress them and even regret some questions I've asked but I want to discover the truth(s) and understand different thoughts.

a'dim mma

@OP accept his offer and dive right in...shebi you wan train for Olympics?

talina: mi mouth no fit talk am.No sabi pidgin. Thanks for putting up with me.......o

No wahala(problem), nufin do you...you try sha

Thomas Mapfumo - Kuvarira Mukati

Science is a fundamental aspect in human life and so is spirituality for some. Both can open up (and also close) the way an individual thinks and perceives.
However science strives to maintain objectivity whilst spirituality is subjective thus is it important to balance the two? And what happens when science is in conflict with ones belief?

Whilst another’s beliefs should not be imposed on anyone, science should at least be held as a universal basic but akin to some people’s individual beliefs some parts of science still remains theoretical.

Although beliefs should not be used to legislate a country, life is more abstract and science cannot or has yet to decisively measure certain important principles such as morality (albeit morality can be subjective).

But just because spirituality may be optional (and personal) for some unlike science which is largely compulsory and universal does that make spirituality less significant?

"Science without Religion Is Lame, Religion without Science Is Blind" – Albert Einstein: Agree or Disagree?

buzugee: i would hope so. we all we got. unless of course there are aliens from another planet that would fit the bill

I meant: The moment that the essence of god is translated or continued in a habitat rife with imperfection (and I’m not talking about imperfections in the world as an extension of the landscape but the innate imperfections of men) does that not make it thus impossible for man to truthfully (without error) relay god in any medium? - as soon as a religious person assumes the title of their belief system they act as representatives of their god and can such fallible mortals be appropriate ambassadors of a being that is said to be perfect?

and logicboy you have a point...it can be argued that god is not perfect or at least we don't understand the reasons for some of this beings choices/intentions which communicates as contradictory/horrific in our own understanding but if we were to consider god as indeed a "perfect" being could such a being be conveyed accurately through imperfect beings etc...

@OP ask the aproko to translate this into igbo: Chimiezie, good afternoon

If I had been born a Ghanian I would have qualified as Akua

Can a being that is deemed perfect be perfectly conveyed by beings that are imperfect?

As humans we make mistakes, our beliefs fluctuate and often times we are biased I thus wonder is man befitting enough to relay a "perfect" god(s)?

I love them...I used to make some a while back - ankara is pretty versatile.

I'd smile and say Kedu.

Use his remaining teeth to scrape my hair.

talina: Did it make any sense? Im wondering o

small small

I'd let him know that he has just manhandled the wrong individual as I do not wear brazilian hair...