diluminati: i totally agree with this because this same religion you call charity have also been the creation of more pain that demands charitable work to ease off. and considering that the non-religious wealthy people are the greatest donors when it comes to charity. its simple, charity is not religion imo

Sometimes I do often wonder if such "charitable" donations from certain bodies with a murky past are just to ease of their conscious or repair their reputation although it would be unfair to use that to discredit all especially those with good intentions. But do those seemingly good intentions actually cater to what is "good" for those in need? I considered this because Charity/Aids etc is influence and whilst it may sometimes be detectable to outline the objective of some charity bodies i.e. some religious charity organizations have an ulterior aim to proselytize....intentions from other organizations may be much more subtle....again this doesn't reflect on all members from specific charitable bodies.

I find even the concept of an atheist charity to be silly, because besides alienating a good deal of the population as potential donors...

I fully agree with this point. Furthermore charity should not even be a competition and despite what may have influenced ones charitable giving no group has a monopoly on charity.

Is morality inherent or learnt?

Just inches before I was to press the submit button I was to vote for the latter however I just remembered a little article I read a while back. It detailed the bond developed between twins in the womb, and it showed an ultrasound where one twin was reaching out to comfort the other twin and in other cases there are twins that struggle with each other in the womb.
Now I don’t believe such behaviour was learnt or necessarily inherent but perhaps environmentally influenced or an adaptation.
However I believe an “authoritative source” elicits our ability to discern. And discernment influences our moral conduct.

Good vs Evil is not an unusual theme to be found in films especially those with a religious content.

In Nollywood the traditional systems appear diabolical. The image of a wretched looking diviner sitting in a nest of bushes, the figure that is meant to be offering help to those desperate enough for a quickie miracle adds to the supposed shadiness and uncivilized nature of traditional systems.

This of course is in contrast to the ideal image projected of Christianity – the seemingly “Good” side.

However there may be some wayo Christians although these characters are conveniently associated with traditional systems (or some other supposedly dark force) and are generally served their comeuppance by the righteous Christians.

Thus the image again presented is that genuine practised Christianity is a force for good whilst genuine practised traditional religion is a force for bad or usually employed by bad people.

Is it not a disservice that one of the largest film industries in the world peddles unflattering stereotypes and one-sided accounts of its own traditional religions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kddR14oFgow&feature=player_embedded




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx7iO_A68_U&feature=player_embedded

*unsubscribes*

Blyss:

Yes, I do.

Mind sharing?

Ptolomeus: Well, just see this thread ...
Since most of you know me. I was born and I live in Montevideo, Uruguay (South America). I spent years of my life studying various African traditions, particularly the Yoruba.
My intention in the forum is to exchange information, which enriches us all.
I do not speak English, I use a translator, so please excuse my mistakes you know writing.
I'm at your orders for everything they deem necessary.
My respectful greetings to all!

Hola Ptolomeus

JallowBah Hei

JallowBah:

Hei, går det bra? ( Hello, how are you/are you good? )
Ja, det går bra, med deg? ( Yes, I am fine, and you? )

Thanks. I love the Swedish and Norwegian alphabets lol...

That is probably because most of Norway was farmers and fishers in the old days Women used to wear small scarfs on their head almost at all times, some for religious/cultural reasons ( in the old days, a woman always had to cover her head, scarf or hat, to enter the church ), and some only to keep the farm-smell out of the hair.

..... and yes, in some ways, you can relate it to the hijab Many europeans seem to forrget that.

Yep and I find that interesting...

Education is free in Norway. Every single child have the right to go to school, even the asylum-kids whos parents havent got a yes or nor to stay in Norway, have to go to school. You actually cant choose to keep your kid out of school, unless you have exams7test to prove home-schooling is taken care of. All books and material is free, but some trips might have to be payed. Many students collect money with selling cookies, tickets, etc.
After the first ten years, you have three more years that is free, but optional. Depending on where you live ( with/without parents ), and how much your parents made last year ( as in; can they pay for your books, materials, etc ? ), the goverment will pay you from 0,- up to 1000USD a month. The highest one includes a loan wich have to be payed back. They will only provide you with up to 500USD, and if you drop out/fail classes, you will have to pay the free money back, since you used them on other things than school.

Some choose to work instead ( I stayed for almost 2years after the first ten, realised I did not have any clue what I wanted to be, and decided to make money instead of borrowing for an education I wouldnt even use later on. ), and some go on to higher educations to become teachers, doctors, socialworkers, etc.

Interesting...I guess I assumed that Norwegian inhabitants will be quite well off because Norway seems to have managed their oil wealth well.

Anything more? ( Not very often I get asked about my country and our ways, so it is fun for me to answer! )

I ask so many questions so I don't want to overwhelm you

Do you know anything about Norse mythology?

Do you have any pictures?

okeyxyz,

I wasn’t “ballistic” concerning your argument I was annoyed concerning your assumptions. I accept your apology and I also extend that olive branch and my own apology if you indeed felt offended by my previous post.
I don’t like labels so never felt the need to find a term that supposedly best qualifies me but just to let you know there is a world out there full of people with different or even unconventional convictions that some defy labelling or make up their own. Just because I do not subscribe to your god or worldview doesn’t by default make me an atheist or an ultraliberal. And just for the record I am not anti-religion or anti-theist I am “anti” independent choice - notwithstanding I am not ignorant to the fact that our final choices are often as a result of influences.

I think i know the differences, and one truth i have realized is that everything of value is actually imposed or compelled, nobody has ever become proficient in any activity through leisure/"informed". Proficiency comes through discipline/dedication, that's how we've all come to be educated & professional. It was coercion(through the fear of failure, poverty, etc), not leisure/"informed".

Interesting...however teaching or “imposing” - as you put it - children about values is different from “compelling” them to adopt a particular religion don’t you think? Sure, there are particular moral frameworks, ideologies etc stapled to particular religion but what I meant is that the choice is ultimately up to the child. Parents, neighbours etc can influence the child’s decision but I doubt anyone can or even should make that decision for anyone although certain households may be governed by particular faiths due to the affiliations of the parents and that is understandable. Besides usually children are going to have a leaning to the faith of their parents/ immediate society.
But is it a good enough basis to adhere to a particular religion or even unbelief because mum, dad or ones immediate society says so?

OK, point taken. to answer that, my answer would be yes, i would like to consider religion if by chance i'm putting up a child for adoption. It seems ugly i know, We all wish the world a perfect place but i'm dealing with the realities on ground. I probably would not want my child to be adopted by moslem parents(no offence), I most-definitely would not want my child to be raised in any middle-eastern or arabic islamic states. Because these are places where sharia tends to be state law, it's culturally acceptable to persecute and exert violence on non-moslems, even converting from islam to another religion is punishable by death.

Hhhmmm but what if the child lived with you and under your roof decided to convert to Islam....even under your care/guidance children will still form their own thought and opionons and ones that may not necessary agree with yours.

Mr_Anony:
Wow we are agreeing! I can't believe this! Today must be a good day!

And atheists say miracles don't exist (j/k)

Although I'm not an atheist so I speak for no one most especially the atheists...in all honesty I personally find this very big of you David.

However I'll take this opportunity to apologies to any body who I may have offended during some of my discourse...I have no agenda against any faith/unbelief.

P.S. I hope you get well soon and hopefully your truce will not be broken once you've recovered.

Welcome JallowBah...I would have greeted you in Norwegian but I don't even know how to say "hello" in the language...so let me take this opportunity to ask: how does one greet in Norway?

In the first pic you posted the attire reminded me of a typical milk maid costume lol oh and just curious but why did some wear head wraps...was it's function meant to be similar to the hijab for example...

And how is the education system in Norway?

Once again...Welcome.

Mr_Anony:
Well, each society has what they consider as "best experience" for the child. In regards to the story in your OP, I have also heard of a couple who were denied adoption rights in USA because they were christians and they would teach the child that homosexuality isn't acceptable behavior.

As a kid, almost everything you learn is by "indoctrination" as you don't know enough to make choices. There is no choice totally independent of background. Also, there are choices one has to have a certain level of maturity to make.

For me, religion shouldn't really factor in adoption but if it does, I won't really have that much of a problem with it as such. If the authorities decide that they do not want a particular religion raising their kids, then they are persecuting that religion. It is the fact that the government/adoption agency is discriminating that should be questioned and not necessarily the family the kid is growing up in.

Agreed.

Well to be honest nothing struck me as out of the ordinary...

Maybe we should draw the boderline with eating with our hands when it comes to crisps and chips eh?

P.S. What type of comments did you find?

okeyxyz: but i would ask that you present your arguments in a fair & logically consistent manner

As opposed to your “fair and logically consistent manner”...?
Hmm so not adhering to religion automatically means one is either an atheist or super liberal?
Or is it because I’m asking questions you assume that I have a malicious intent?

First of all you do not know me so don’t bother trying to second guess me.
And as for my so called unfair stance to religion...you clearly missed the goal there. I’m lenient, curious but cautious of the various faiths.
In future do ask instead of assuming, ok and most of your flawed character dissection has only served to mar your argument because I’m now having to decipher between the parts that possibly correlate to the topic and your st[i]u[/i]p[i]i[/i]d assumptions about my being.

You also go on to conclude that religion can be "replaced", if so, then it's really not life-changing then, don't you think?

Did you even read what proceeded that reply?...The comparison between culture/language and religion. Religion isn’t necessarily fixed neither is it hereditary so please do read in context in future.
And yes religion is a life-changing decision it doesn’t take away from that fact even if a person’s discards their former religion or adopts another. Even being an atheist is a life altering decision. Smh

what are you scared of religion

Please do yourself a favour and never again second guess me in future.

You do not approve that religious parents teach their children religion, but i'm pretty sure that you'd approve of atheist parents teach their children atheism, right? your arguments are just not fair. You cannot single out religion to give it some "bad" attributes, but somehow fail to mention that infact every discipline has these same attributes. if religion is intolerant of atheist views, atheism is also intolerenat of religious views, non is holier than the other.

Did you conveniently miss my response to Mr Anony where I wrote that it is understandable that parents will feel obligated to share their beliefs with their child although I specifically said I do not support imposition? Do you understand what the difference actually is?...to be taught or informed is different from being compelled. And since you failed to make the first correlation I have to stress that clearly goes for atheism as well!

I wasn’t singling out religion I was discussing religion in relation to adoption as regards to a particular anecdote so it being the theme of topic it’s therefore obviously going to be a highlighted subject...not to bash but to discuss.

okeyxyz: okay, you say that we shouldn't "coerce" children into religion, but how about school & learning, should we not let them make that choice too? whether they want to be educated or not? education is a life-altering discipline, it is also an "individual thing" yet we force our children to school. It seems cool to be liberal, but one should be cautious not to malpractice liberalism. there is a reason they are children and that is because they are not in any position to make any important decisions for themselves and it is the responsibility of any parent to raise his/her kid according to the values he considers important. Now when such kid come of age, then by all means, they have an independent mind, they have infinite right of will to go as they please. you forget(or choose to ignore) that there are millions of non-religious or atheist people who were raised in religious homes, it has not stopped them from exercising free will as adults to determine their own values. why this phobia of religion

Would you stop acting deliberately obtuse! Do you even comprehend the topic? Everything I said here was in relation to a particular anecdote...if a child being denied a home based on (ir)religious affiliations of potential parents doesn’t grab your attention but fleeting remarks that were written in a particular context then excuse me if I care less about continuing to respond to your misguided posts.
When you stop playing a martyr you might actually just understand what the topic was hoping to address...

Mr_Anony:
No religion is not hereditary, it is a choice. Why?

Well I hope so...I really hope it is a choice...
But what “choice” is there if a child awaiting adoption that so happened to be born by chance into either a particular religious household/society are denied a potential home/parents because their religious background doesn't match (see my anecdote in my OP)?
Does a child awaiting adoption that was born into an Islamic society necessarily require parents of a matching faith for them to be provided with the best experience? Does the child even require such specific religious parents/guardians given their circumstance?
So this choice is essentially influenced by chances one cannot control such as background/nationality?....

ifyalways: Is this thread aimed @ getting the real fact or the OP just wants to sample nlders opinion on the subject

Truthfully in the beginning I was initially after opinions regarding the anecdote in the OP but given that majority of audiences are Nigerians...facts based on the reality in Nigeria is also appreciated...or countries where such strict rules exists.

Mr Anony, do you believe religion is hereditary?

Wow....I have nostalgia...the best topic I've ever been apart of on this site...and to alcofrybas, I apologize because regrettably I cannot now edit my previous posts where I quoted you (I see you've edited them all and if my old account wasn't defunct I would have followed suit and edited my comments which quoted yours so as to protect your privacy)...

Mr_Anony:
...Now moving on to things we disagree about (which is more fun by the way)

I believe every parent has the right to train up his/her child in the faith he/she believes in. When the child comes of age, he/she may decide to tow another line.
For instance if a pregnant mother wants to give her child up for adoption because she can't take care of it, she has every right to choose the parents based on any criteria she deems fit including religion.
When choosing adopting parents, ideally what the mother is looking for is foster parents who will raise her kid in the same way she would have raised it if she had the means and this includes the religion she holds dear.

Okay I understand but I was specifically talking about adoption agencies but I still see your point.

...."when the child comes of age"....exactly the coming of age....and so they should not be coerced into such a life-altering decision; it is an individual responsibility. However I understand that parents/guardians feel obliged to share their beliefs and values with their child(ren) and that is fine as long as there’s no imposition.
But at such an early age children (despite their religious background) at best can be presented with the various school of thoughts instead of being indoctrinated at such a tender age because what we find is that really it was not their “divine” choice rendering some of them complacent.

Now as for faith is personal and not entrenched, this doesn't apply to kids. Simply because they haven't reached an age to make such decisions for themselves. It is not indirectly dictating the religion of the child in any way.
It is almost like saying teaching a kid a particular language/culture is questionable and is dictating the culture of the child and entrenching in it in the child against his personal choice.

Religion can be replaced...language and culture can be supplemented.

@OP Oh I also forgot to add I love the body art of the Fulanis

@OP Why don't you start us off....

Actually I'm here because I wanna read and learn waffi pidgin ...but I be Deltan o but born in Nasarawa...

*subscribes*

buzugee: depends on the religion. i wouldnt want a sango worshipper adopting my kid

Lol

Mr_Anony: Should religion be a factor in adoption. I don't think so. When a child is to be adopted, what matters more is providing the child with a conducive and safe environment for it to grow.

Finally we agree on something

ajufinz: You sure have a liberal view to religion. That does nt work outside Christianity.
However, the bible says 'train up a child in a way he should go, and after he grows he'll not depart from it' prov. 22:6
For other religions u're as gud as a member mostly be birth.
Bt yeah! There communities to the rules no mata oooo

Mr_Anony: When religion should really matter is in the case of a parent giving up his/her child for adoption. At this point, they are entitled to choose what faith is right for their child to grow up in.

I believe the welfare of the child should be the priority although having knowledge of one’s own background is not such a bad thing but is it not questionable to select potential parents based on religion?

Furthermore isn’t that indirectly dictating the religion of the child? Faith is personal so should be personal not entrenched...

There have been rare stories regarding non-Africans adopting African spirituality which is quite intriguing as African traditional religions are non-proselytizing and sometimes even exclusive.

But it's one thing to share one’s own beliefs or to even impose them and another to take the beliefs of someone else’s.

Is culture and spirituality a free-for-all?

Is it okay to take whatever we want from another’s culture and spirituality and mould it into our own compatibility?

If these practices are non-invitational is it only at the behest of the custodians whereby an outsider may adopt these unfamiliar practices or should it be voluntary?

Should spirituality be exclusive?

Mr_Anony:
No I am not a catholic. Why are you asking?

Oh don't mind me...I think I read more meaning than intended into your illustration.

Mr Anony, I hope you don't mind me asking but are you a catholic?

tbaba1234...thanks for the video clip, very informative.

Adoption can be a tricky issue. There are many issues to consider in adoption although I understand the rules may differ from country to country.

A few years ago I heard a story about a woman who was denied adoption over a particular child raised in an Islamic society as she was a non-Muslim.
But I believe there is no such thing as a Muslim child, a Christian child or a Hindu child etc...
However there are children born into either a religious household or a religious society and such impacts on the cultural experience of the child.

Many adoption agencies seek potential parents who may still be able to cater to the cultural experience of the child.

Could parents of a different religious or even irreligious background provide an adequate cultural experience for such child?

Should they even have to?

Should potential parents be discriminated against based on religion?

Or do they have a duty to inform and educate their adopted child of their religious background at minimum?

I understand your points and I think they are fair points to consider but whenever a revolution occurs upbringing is not a factor as much as condition - there is only so much any one person can take. Michelin, it takes only one person to start of a chain reaction; that is what happened in Tunisia and spread across the Northern states of Africa.

I believe most Nigerians are now immune to their condition whilst some others are afraid of the consequences.

maclatunji: I typed a response this afternoon but it was lost in transit. Later, God willing.

How did it get lost in transit?

However I would still like to read at least a semblance of your original explanation if you can remember what you had intended to post.

LagosShia thanks for your response but I have a couple of questions...

LagosShia: then there is also the outter peace which has to do how mankind deal with one another.if man has inner peace,then he should behave well with others and act accordingly.therefore acts of fighting should only be in self-defense in order to deter enemies or bring back the state of peace that a Muslim enjoys within himself and in his society and the state of peace with His Creator.and that is self-defense.

Hmm “fighting for peace”?

Does peace and defence fit together?

@OP have you ever considered if some of those seemingly beautiful names in your culture have unpleasant meanings in another language?