₦airaland Forum

buzugee:
this is exactly why the lord says that women should keep quiet and be seen but not heard. because they are emotional creatures with no sense of understanding. 1 corinthians 14 vs 34. here you are, you asked a whole bunch of questions, which are great questions, and which i thought you genuinely wanted answers for. come to find out you dont really want answers to your questions. you are just here to cleave onto the men who you admire on this site. thats the woman for you. i supplied all the answers you needed with biblical verses but i am sure you ignored that and ran to Joagbajes post, which had paucity of information regarding all the questions you asked. see, you are here to either look for a husband or to man-please. you are not here to look for answers, because you turned around and asked the same questions all over again.

The fact that I’m female should not be held as an issue against my being. Joagbaje is somebody I’ve grown to respect as well as his opinions so if indeed it may appear that I might value his input above yours or give them priority doesn’t automatically mean I’m head over heels. That says a lot about your own “sense of understanding”.
I never post on here with the intention of courting or arousing the interest of the male assembly. (The people I may indulge in small banter with are those who I’m acquainted to).

The thing is I had actually read your posts but was structuring my response. In future, please don't jump to conclusion. You will recieve my response shortly.

^^
Hey there.

I'm still waiting for our pending chat - I hope it's gonna be a Long One

Long One:
Let’s hope he doesn’t let awards such as the OP’s get to his head.

Hmmn. . .

Bushmeat con catch hunter

@Rossikk

Now that's a pretty interesting illustration.I'm not sure I believe it though.

At the risk of sounding religious, if everybody ends up in heaven. . .what was the point of earth? what was the point of dying? The same characters(good or bad) will still be in this supposed heaven - so how does that largely differ from planet earth? then heaven at all is not exclusive?

Furthermore if there is heaven (for all the goodies) and no hell (for all the baddies), then that just means everybody's entry into heaven was by default. Imagine one has an exam, yet the teacher say's no one will fail. . .then by default all the students "pass" or do they? As if there's no margin for failing, then there can be no margin for passing?

Joagbaje:
God is not commanding servitude. All he wants is a relationship with us. And we are the beneficiary of such relationship .We have nothing to offer . He has all to offer. Theres an advasary of man out there to frustrate. That's the devil

Hi Jo, long time. I hope you’re good

Well I always look forward to hearing from you and I do respect your opinions however on this one I disagree.

“We have nothing to offer”? What of our submission? Obedience? And more importantly our "souls"?

I have never seen a relationship where no party had nothing to contribute or gain unless it’s a parasitic one.

But (to me) this whole relationship with the Christian God is akin to emotional blackmail.

“I died for you now receive my free gift of salvation and worship me or be damned in hell for eternity” - (that is how the message translates to me.)

Really . . .what type of condition is this?

Why would he engineer such a scenario? To be casted as a hero? For humans to come running to him?

Truth be told, there are a lot of people that adhere to this God because they are afraid of roasting in hell not because they actually love him. Why are some people governed by fear if they claim to worship a loving God?

Why does God even want us to worship him if he doesn’t need us?

Why is he so tetchy and threatening when some people are not at all willing to adhere to Him?

I believe he does want all the adoration and praise and those who don’t massage his ego by giving that to him will be baking in hell.

Now that to me sounds a whole lot like emotional blackmail. Moreover this God has left us with a painful alternative so that highly frightened individuals (which may not even be genuine believers) would be in his assembly – just for the sake of not catching heat.

Now, I may have concluded prematurely and harshly and for that I do apologise. But I’m always open to correction and enlightenment . . .so if you or indeed anybody else has an issue with my statement do not fail to call me up on it.

In the above quote from sacred-texts, on Yoruba people, Greek culture is assumed as the yardstick for measuring ancient civilization.  In a number of art reviews and analysis of the Ife Bronze Heads we heard similar comparisons where the Greek arts and civilization was used as the benchmark to grade Yoruba art and civilization.

As they say: the victor narrates the tale. I’ve also pondered on the similarities between the Orishas, Greek gods, Egyptian gods etc even with X-men lol.
Either certain societies coincidently had some things in common. . .such as rendering like elements as faculties of their gods or perhaps some societies mapped their own deities from another culture. I’m leaning towards the latter.

[Side Note:] Also might I add that the Binis were well versed and skilled in casting before the era swept Europe. (I cheekily added that to counter the “benchmark” used “to grade Yoruba art and civilization”.)

Also, if ancient Yoruba is as closely-related to ancient Greek as is admitted by Eurocentrists, then by logic the two ancient civilizations existed on the same philosophical axis. . .

Very valid and important point. Some indicators used to measure a sophisticated society is a society’s form of spirituality and attainment in art. If the Yorubas were of a lighter pigment and finer features I wonder how much more esteem their ancient civilization would have been accorded. For then, it may have even been written that the Yorubas donated to the Greek or even Egyptians but that would be too controversial and ego destroying to consider at this current time with those particular factors absent.

In the early 20th century a German ethnographer (Leo Frobenius) was confronted with the sophisticated sculptures from Ile Ife and believed in his prejudiced heart that he had found the lost city of Atlantis. That lie (or imagination) was too far fetched to have much of a life-span and was thus revoked when other archaeologist studied the case to be untrue. And that indeed the art was to be credited to the Yorubas and not some ancient Greek civilization that existed miles away on another continent.  Albeit it’s not exactly an earth-shattering revelation that the sculptures found in Yoruba land were actually crafted by the Yorubas – you’d think eh?

However it’s slightly ironic though that even then a correlation was drawn. Granted it wasn’t to draw any similarities between both societies; more or less using one to eclipse the other.

[center]***[/center]

However Egypt was perhaps the America of its time (perhaps even better). Thus is it not possible that her neighbours may have borrowed/copied much from her society at the time?

The knowledge also confirm that Yoruba itself was strongly influenced directly in these sacred knowledge and teachings.

Aha! spoke typed too soon.

analysis of Greek civilization to examine if indeed it’s civilization and greatness were not donations from. . . Egypt to be specific.

I actually don’t find this hard to believe at all, that is why there is such an issue and recurring debate about the “race” of the Ancient Egyptians.

Sadly there are so many things that remain hidden.

Ptolomeus:
Hello dear friend.

Hola amigo!

Capoeira is not a religion but a dance with wrestling moves, created by slaves.

I know. I was just noting some African practices that have been adapted in South America.

Candomblé in Brazil has different variants grouped under the same name.
There Keto Candomble (Yoruba, Orisa) and Candomble de Angola (Nkisse). Both are different.

Ok. It appears the prominent African influences in Brazil largely stems from Yoruba/Angola.
What of Uruguay?

I can not write Yoruba

And I cannot read in Yoruba but I recognize some words. Thanks for the effort. Do you have a translation?

In times of slavery, to a certain time of year, every ethnic group began playing drums early in the morning, announcing public one another, for the night each group expressing its typical touch and dances. This event is known as "llamadas" (calls) and is a tradition that continues today.

That sounds so cool.

In Uruguay there is a strong influence of African music. In fact, the CANDOMBE (created by slaves) is arguably the most autochthonous country music, possibly even more than the tango.

I really want to hear some candombe. Can you recommend some musicans/songs?

I would like to have direct contact with you, but do not know how to send a PM on the forum.
I send you a friendly greeting and I am at your service

Okay amigo. If you don’t mind, can I have your email address please so I can send you a message?
Have a good day!

Obi1kenobi:
It's even the reverse case with me
I'd rather tell all my friends and cousins than tell my mum or brother. They're very passionate, single-minded, strong-willed people and at 21, I happen to be by far the youngest of my 5 siblings which makes everyone view me as some incapacitated baby. I'm waiting for NYSC posting in June so I still live with my parents - further worsening the situation as they can compel me to go to church. Just yesterday, which was Ash Wednesday in the Catholic Church, my mum ensured I followed her to church so I had to attend an over 3-hr sservice against my will for peace to reign. Of course, I went to a corner to listen to music on my phone but the very fact I was compelled to leave home was disturbing.

I seriously live a nightmare right now at home. It's better with friends cos it's of no consequence what they think, unlike my mum who would go hysterical and probably have a stroke or heart-attack. I just can't handle the drama.

. . ah memories ( I just had a flashback from childhood). . .

I bet it’s a nightmare but what I meant is that wouldn’t it be harder to hide your beliefs or lack of from the scrutiny of relatives as opposed to friends. Even though you may be freer with your friends, your family may be able to detect your detachment especially if you’re living under their roof.
But what I don’t understand is why some people force their god down on another individual – nobody can force another to have faith in a particular God/belief . . .the best that person can do is force a person to adopt the practises, but it can’t get any deeper than that because conviction is personal and individually inspired. In addition, the more a person shoves their belief down another person’s throat, the more likely an individual is to repel.
As you have narrated . . .they drag you to church but your mind is absent, so what’s the point?

Fragile thaywo:
;DI agree wit u, but if I may ask y is it now that dey realise african print is beautiful, african print as been in existance for centuries n as not been given so much acknowledgement, are the western fashion designer just using the in pretence to be truely culturally diverse or because it seems to be one of the top selling print l8ely

Actually I wasn’t necessarily talking about African print – more like designs inspired from African attire or even culture. But sure, western designers use a lot of African print too. You are actually right, African print has soared in popularity and maybe they do want to be seen as being culturally diverse even though I doubt that’s the main objective because fashion is international anyway. And that’s why many African designers (and other designers alike) cater to a diverse audience by playing with and marrying different styles.

And pls for my research purpose I will apprec8 a link n name of the western designer dat used african n indian print

Sorry I remember that collection from a long time ago, so I didn’t make a mental note of the designer at the time – I’ve been searching for the designer for ages myself (he wasn't a western designer by the way).
Do you study fashion by any chance?

If God Almighty does not need mere mortals, what was the objective of creating Man in his “image”?. . .
. . .To reflect his unseen visage?
. . .So that Man would worship him?
But those who dare not pay obeisance to this being will be sentenced to an eternity in the “lake of fire”. .right?

In the midst of the Garden of Eden the “All-knowing” God deliberately positioned the prohibited “tree of knowledge of good and evil”; even though he did not want the first model humans to partake from that tree.
Yet the “omnipotent” one knowing that these humans will inevitably succumb and commit sin had salvation on standby from the very beginning, in the form of Jesus Christ – the sacrificial lamb.
Since God already had mankind’s salvation on standby surely he knew that Adam and Eve would fall.

Thus he could assume the role as “saviour” and rescue mankind from our acquired sinful state by offering his “only begotten son” as the substitutionary sacrifice.
And in turn, Man would forever be indebted to him and accept him as Lord and saviour as an appreciation for this selfless gesture.

Is this not a selfish-egotistical ambition?
Is God’s personal esteem centred on being worshipped? Needed? Loved?
If so, can one rightly conclude that God indeed has an ego?

Clothes evolve, and cultures borrow from each other. If you look close enough, you will also notice that Western designers have borrowed or tailored some of their clothes/designs to African ones.
The influence is vice versa. I don’t think it’s anything to do with being ashamed but perhaps contemporary or experimental.
There was a designer that fused African and Indian clothes together – the result was beautiful.

Does God accept friend requests

I don’t quite understand how one can hide their beliefs from family. Friends, I can understand but how does one hide their belief from their family?
I’m not even the most open person with my parents but I made sure everyone in my family including my siblings knew where I stood to their "righteous" horror.
Wouldn’t one feel suffocated by all the pretence?   ( I certainly did )

Haribo:


Wow,  color me flabbergasted. I guess there's a first time for everything. Was my post dripping with so much testosterone that you had to ask this? Would like to know what prompted such a question. WOW.

Don't mean to derail this thread, but its not often one's gender gets questioned via the interwebs. *eagerly awaits response* 

P.S. The answer to your question is yes.

Lol you’d be surprised, Haribo.

mazaje:
Female african atheist living in Nigeria?. . . I have seen only one in nairaland. . . .No body will marry you that I know for sure. . . .

Hmmn amazing. Yet I wonder if atheists are willing to marry religious folks themselves. . .

Ptolomeus:
Dear friend:
Ptolomeus is just my nick ,  my name is Enrique.

Nice name
So what does Ptolomeus mean?

My original language is Spanish, but I also speak French, Portuguese and Catalan.

That’s good.  You must be well travelled.
Do you understand Italian?

I'm glad we both have an affinity for the subject. You live in Nigeria?

No, I don’t live in Nigeria. I live in London.

You can count on my full cooperation and information. I would like to have yours.

. . .and you have mine.

Write on Batuque take too much space, but at least I would like to explain something:. Broadly speaking, I can tell you that unlike the original cult, ceremonies for all Orisá are performed in the same Ile. This is because originally, the number of followers was low at each site and the worship was forbidden by the slave. Another difference is that not all African Orisá are known in America, if not all priests came Orisá.
Can you ask what you want.

Which Orisá’s are known in South America? I heard Sango was the most popular one.
Were any of your ancestors African? Did your parents practise Batuque and pass the belief down to you? Or was you independently inspired to adopt this belief?

Indeed, in America there are other cults of Angola, for example in Candomblé of Angola in Brazil.

Candomblé was derived from Angolan practises? I thought there were some Yoruba influences as well.
But I've heard that capoeira in Brazil originated from Angola.

I speak very little yorubá. Just know some greetings, some words, and ritual songs. I just I have a Yoruba-English dictionary of Abraham

Ba wo ni? That’s all the Yoruba I know. Can you write a Yoruba song here please, I would like to see

Except ritual music in America there is very little coverage of African music. Some years ago, Miriam Makeba was very successful ,  But we know very little.

Music is a good guide when one wants to know more about particular cultures and countries. Some South American music was influenced by Africans and some African music has been influenced by South Americans – sweet cultural exchange.
Miriam Makeba, she was good. I could recommend you some African musicians if you like.
But I would also like to know more about South America.

You say rightly. I have observed in the general forum that Africans do not have a full awareness of the great cultural heritage that have ,  that saddens me

Largely we are culturally sub-conscious.
These imported faiths have inhibited so much on our culture that our indigenous practises have become foreign to us.
I don’t practise any African religions myself but I have an appreciation for them.

I am keen to make contact with you, if you consider it appropriate.

How do you hope to make contact? via mail?

I am at your service, and I express my greatest respect and friendship.

Thank you. I extend the same warm offering of friendship towards you.

Ptolomeus:
Dear friend emöfine:
I live in Montevideo, Uruguay, South America.

Hey Ptolomeus. So are you South American? Your name sounds Greek.
I guess you speak Spanish or even Portuguese. Hola amigo.

I am a humble researcher of African traditions, particularly the Yoruba.

That makes both of us. Although my own method might be different.
Is that what lead you to this site?

I also practice the cult of Orisá done here with the name "Batuque".

Please tell me more about how you practise Batuque?

As you know, many reasons including the great persecution forced in America, in the various expressions, the cult of Orisá should be adapted in terms of some materials, as to some fundamentals, but its root is the same.

South America amazes me. In Brazil it’s Candomblé. Cuba - Santería. And of course in Uruguay it’s Batuque . I also heard parts of Venezuela practise this traditional religion. Recently I met a man from Trinidad and Tobago that is a practitioner of this Orisá belief.

It’s actually quite impressive how far reaching this African (Yoruba) belief has spread. It’s interesting - the Europeans came to Africa with Christianity and the Africans left with Ifa and other native beliefs. The people in these countries outside of Africa seem to be more faithful and appreciative of these practises than us Africans.
Yoruba appears to be popular in South America. Are there any other Arican groups that are well known in that region as well as their beliefs? . . .such as Angola or Congo?

Ptolomeus, can you speak a little bit of Yoruba? Do you listen to African music?

If you wish, with the greatest pleasure, I am at your service to give you the information you want.

Oh yes, I would be delighted if you could be generous enough to share some information with me.

I repeat my unconditional friendship and respect for you, and I am at your service.
A friendly greeting!

@mazaje

As for now am a complete atheist cos I am in no way shape, or form attached to my two former religions(Christianity and Islam). . . .I still go to the church once in a while because of family or for events

Aha! but you are "attached" in some way. When a person (atheist/apostate) has relatives that are religious, such a person may become sucked into some of the practises (no matter how small or great) in one form or another (albeit it's dependant on how strong their relatives are in their belief). So it can be extremely difficult for some to completely cut off. . .how much more being in an environment that is high on spirituality.

harakiri:
The non-religious ladies have the same cold shoulder treatment meted out to them (even worse).

Because they're women abi? Or is it because they are not traditional African women?

A non-religious person in this part of the world is regarded as being worse than a kidnapper or armed robber. People just can't understand how it's possible not to believe in a god or gods. In Nigeria for instance, you MUST be either christian,moslem or "juju worshiper". If you don't fill into any category, they will assume the worst about you

The way I see it. . . drugs are to the west what gods are to Africa. The west has a drug-dependent society akin to how Africa has a god-dependent one - even for the most minute things, people from these societies will seek assistance from their nationally nominated confidant. If there was no drugs here, many would be afraid that their ailments would not be alleviated so a person who rejects drugs for his/her treatment may well just be regarded as someone who has a death wish. In Africa one of the attributes of the gods is to heal and deliver one from their adversaries. So I can imagine that the person in Africa who rejects god will be seen to be rejecting gods help . . .and may likewise be regarded as someone with a death wish. Someone with a death wish is obviously perceived as suicidal. Suicide is a taboo in African culture.

It's interesting when one thinks of the effects of placebo drugs. I guess that can be likened to placebo religions.

I suppose being religious fills a person with a sense of purpose - (whatever that purpose is) - that maybe they regard the non-religious contingent as people with no real aim or purpose, perhaps.

Kay 17:
I don't think the African religions and cultures don't tolerate atheists or homosexuals, by being polytheistic nature they embrace other religions and views. There examples of Sango being a gay.

The Abrahamic religions were not rejected or prosecuted but integrated into their beliefs. There is presently a crisis among the African people. Its one of identity and conscience. The domination of Abrahamic religions and patriarchal ideas and intolerance is in direct conflict with the African spirit which is reflective, tolerant and peaceful.

An atheist will easily be accepted in very traditional setting.

So an animist can embrace the views of an atheist?

I've noticed that all replies submitted here were from males. So it makes me wonder: how is the female African atheist regarded/treated?

Reading the responses on here was really interesting and eye opening. Whilst I would not want to tread on anybody's sensibilities or deviate from the main topic I couldn't help noticing the parallel between the reception awarded to the African atheist and the h[i]o[/i]mos[i]e[/i]xual.

Just like down low gays, some of you guys are living undercover and have yet to come out of the closet for fear of being judged or ostracised.

In an African context, both individuals would be seen as deviants. Thus does the African atheist incite the same reaction as the h[i]o[/i]mos[i]e[/i]xual African?

I'm also wondering if there is a slight correlation between atheism and one's profession i.e. is a physicist more likely to become an atheist than an agriculturalist? Is the majority of the population of atheists from academic backgrounds?

Another observation; many atheists present in this thread (and from my own personal experiences) hail from religious backgrounds. Is there some form of guilt for the former Christian, Muslim etc. adopting another faith?
Are some apostates still slightly attached to their former faith?

Ptolomeus:
Dear[b] Mrs. emöfine:[/b]
Thanks for your sweet words.
You may have noticed that my English is bad, and is a great effort to step in and read.
His words are of great value to me.
You're a very intelligent, measured, and friendly.
You can count me as a friend unconditionally.
Thank you!
Best regards!

Thank you dear friend.

If you don't mind me asking, where are you from by the way?

Idehn:
Would these individuals include yourself perhaps?

No. These are just opinions I've gathered from others over the years. Albeit I used to flirt with the idea that perhaps maybe it is in the African disposition to be spiritual but I've come to realise that environment plays an influential role.

@ Obi1kenobi + dekung

Do you two realise that music is a form of worship? You may argue that the lyrics or the substance of the message does not have a profound effect on your life but music is a force.

The Sarafina Soundtrack

I am not in fact adverse to the idea that a creator may exist. My main problem and doubt lays mostly with the many fraternities that try to depict God or claim favourable ownership over this being.

Yet despite the collage of falsity there has to be an original in order for any counterfeit to exist.

How does one thus make a connection with the original God in the midst of so many false depictions?

mkmyers45:
I have been oppurtuned to come across horoscope readings and i have mainly found that it almost always affects my day, I don't want to become obsessed but it is wrong for a Christian to even read such materials? How come the predictions are true?

The thoughts you allow to govern your mind will surely affect you. What is so real about them? How can one be convinced by vague and vain predictions?

You as as an alleged Christian can underrate your own God by believing that 7 billion people are managed by only 12 destinies?
I sure hope the horoscopes predicts for you an eternity in heaven

@believers a genuine question: Does astrology play a role in your individual faith/religion?

@Topic[color=#000099][/color]: How does the African atheist cater to their unbelief in a continent so steeped in spirituality?

2good:
Everybody knows my faith in my family and see me as a lost soul.

Ditto. They even have the gall to call me “brainwashed” and blame my current thinking on particular books. Oh the Irony!

dekung:
I am an agnost but on a journey to becoming a non-theist.

And how do you intend to embark on such a journey? You are surrounded by that which displeases you

she is trying hard to make me change my mind to the extent of reporting me to everyone that matter in Daystar Christian Centre including the chairman of the church BOT and some pastors. I still go to church to make her happy and my house is also a hse fellowship center

Na by force or by faith

It looks like you’ve been made redundant in your own household and the irony is that the "God" you are opposed to plays a functional role in your own home.

Obi1kenobi:
I pretend to be a Catholic but I never attend mass. I graduated recently from UNN and I remember my classmates and roomies never gave me peace and some even ostracized and ridiculed me (though I gave as good as I got in returning the ridicule).

To tell you the truth, many of these “believers” are pretenders themselves. Some people casually call themselves a christian as if they are reiterating their name - na for mouth only. It’s just customary behaviour my friend.

Sometimes, I feel alone but funny enough, I had 2 converts in school who I "recruited" in my belief system. I intend one day to be an evangelical atheist.

The Evangelical atheist is not at all a new phenomenon, that would actually make an interesting topic. I think of Dawkins when I see that heading.

red jasper:
In many cases yes the systems have been bought and sold as mere products but the forces behind the systems can only be summoned for purpose, they can never be bought or sold.

Yes.

After I had started the path in america I became increasingly upset at some of the various houses I went through, it was all about 'money and ego' I came to see. There were white 'converters' in some who took the craft more serious than their black counterparts, behind closed doors I witnessed this, they had no problem following the calendar and led some of the best rituals! Whites recognize the value we both should definitely agree on that whether it's capitalistic, spiritual or otherwise.

Don’t mind our people. Most of them only see the value in foreign imported products such as the bible but if today their converters were to largely and openly adopt their former spirituality I bet they would eventually become converts again.

The person who summarizes them as primitive is actually correct our systems were the first of their kind and didn't derive from anything but the Gods themselves!

I understand what you mean and initially that was my own interpretation of the word but how one employs a word can alter the meaning. "Primitive" has negative connotations so one may readily assume that the word is being used to highlight something bad. The Ugandan man who I was in conversation with never failed to couple the word with “uncivilized”.

The trouble is that many from the outside don't have a clear picture of what really transpires inside the systems many are even under the impression of the tradtional path being polytheistic, failing to realize the role of the forces within our galaxy playing to that of the 'supreme' force. If such people began to look at what they considered 'witchcraft' through more of a scientifical lense instead of the status quo religious dogma it would better their understanding of the philosophy behind the native beliefs. The base of much confusion I think lies where many see fit to have a keen grasp on the manipulation of force while prematurely disregarding other aspects, ancient Khamit it took long years to truly master this stuff, like any other science in that if you aren't a devoted practitioner of the field you'll have limited understanding of it. I would ask those same people 'how do aircraft fly' and if not put into exact terminology I likewise would dismiss it as witchcraft!

Interesting!

[quote author=E-Engineer link=topic=871907.msg10229708#msg10229708 date=1329688681]ATR means african traditional religion. U must be a hajiya (moslem) then?[/quote]No. I have my own beliefs; maybe they’re not as defined or rigid as the organized faiths and that I do not adhere to any entity but I’d rather maintain my own identity and flexibility than having to put my own in a bracket just to satisfy a statstic therefore making me free from any yoke.
Still I can appreciate and admire the spirituality of another individual if I find their philosophy harmonious.

Funnily enough even though I have a Christian background by virtue of my parents, some people mistake me for a Muslim. Ironic.

My bodyguard Superhero
@OP Spiderman kiss

Emofo sounds like you are a Calabar girl, are you?

I'm not Calabar. But why you for call me emofo naa? It sounds like mofo lol

Inspired