₦airaland Forum

Empiree:
Now you are professional literalist. Are you telling me that God threw down Holy Books from heavens to His prophets and messangers and these men looked up to the heavens to catch it?

You are funny man. Sahih International used "choice of words". Check others like Yusuf Ali, he used the phrase "Book". Shakir used "scripture". Khan also used "Book". If you think God sent down paper Books from heavens, then you would believe Cow jumped from the moon too. You are so amazing bro

true2god:
.

Facebook page/post cannot be used as religious authority. Nowhere in christian or jewish theology is marwa and tarfa, kissing the idolatrous black stone, stoning an imaginary devil in mecca, etc is condoned. This practices are considered idolatrous, which the herbalist you made reference to rightly identified.

You will never understand. How would you understand when clearly you have diluted versions of historic prophets?. The fb page is actually a video explaining your bible verses with respect to the first house of worship which is Baca/Mecca (Psalms 84:6 as well as The Holy Quran in verse 3:96.) mentioned in both OT and Quran. But i understand why you don't get. If you dont understand all prophets were muslims and prayed as muslims pray, obviously you can not understand all prophet did tawaf.

budaatum:
In Christianese, we say clay has not been rubbed in his eyes and he has not washed in the pool of Siloam. I'm certain there is a Quran equivalent.

budaatum:
Why do you ask if "Allah lied", when Allah has never spoken to you? Did Allah lie to you? Did John not take Scripture with determination? Was Christ not judging at 12?

Is it not the truth that you read it in a book that was written by someone that "Allah said"? Are you impoverished because they wrote it? Do you really think the world would be a better place if nobody had written "Allah said"?

You seen his confusion too. I was wondering what he's reading in his own thread when I saw that, and he still doesn't understand himself.

malvisguy212:
this questions has been ask before, Don's expect answer oh. check this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/2535883/allegedly-corrupted-scripture-questions-muslims

LOL, why you didnt post threads where we had lengthy discussions on this subject in 2015?. I am personally not aware of ths particular thread. Besides, this questions or related ones were discussed in various threads 4-5 years ago. Some were created by you and many more were created by others and we gave you your doses back then, isnt?


Informer155,

This thread is one of the most famous thread we had detailed discussions about Bible.

https://www.nairaland.com/2172133/question-did-jesus-read-bible

It was fun back then. I dont know if you have energy to go through it. This thread actually answered pretty much what you are looking for.

malvisguy212:
so were is the injil ? Bible collection of books YET you guys can search for Muhammad therein ?

Long time bro.

my friend again. How are you. Long time indeed. I know you would say this again. Remember we had this discussion some 5yrs ago

Informer155:
Ah ah oga don't deviate na.......we are talking about the stories in the two Holy books Qur'an and Bible, your brother butaahum is even helping you to answe lol

.read your comments again....we are talking about two stories, so your comment and your brother butaahum is the same ...............anytime my phone can be down now.BT tomorrow is another day.

no, I am referring to your specific post you attributed to Qur'an being fictional or nonfiction?. I don't wanna stress myself. I know what I'm talking about. You might missed road. I understood we are dealing with both scriptures.

Informer155:
Is Qur'an now a work of fiction or non-fiction if the stories may or not be true?

do you understand my posts at all?. I said I referred to Bible quotes you quoted above about Joseph and Mary. Please re-read again, thanks



The only relevant story in your Bible quotes is birth of Jesus as Luke narrated.

Informer155:
Oh my God! so interesting!!!

Is what you say about the holy Qur'an? Emp.iree.

that The words/stories inside are inrelevant to your faith ?
Who even put it there sef prophet Mohammad, Allah,Maryam,Jesus or whoooooooo!!!?


So painful that my battery is down sir 1%...,good nite see u 2moro....to be continued

I am sorry your battery is down. I don't know what you meant by @underlined. I was referring to story in the Bible verses you quoted in Luke. That's what I said is not relevant to us in Islam. Read my post carefully again please.

Informer155:
Q1


*

My questions is this;which of these stories are true the one in Quran or Bible? Am so confused....... Empi.ree.

First all, the story around Joseph and Mary is irrelevant in Islam whether it is true or not. That's not what God wanted to work on. God's mission was to send messanger(Jesus) to the children of Israel to guide them to the truth.

As you can see from the verses of Qur'an you quoted, John and Jesus identity are very clear. But look into Bible verse you quoted. It is one of the many confusions in christiandome.

Example:


For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.


Look at this Bible passage very well. It calls Jesus Savior with capital S. It goes further to call Jesus Lord with capital L. These are the reasons CHRISTIANs can not truly figure out identity of Jesus. A verse like this is quoted by Christians as evidence of Divinity (God) of Jesus. So confusion sets in for them. Let me give you second assignment.

Kindly show this verse and ask as many different CHRISTIANs as you possibly can what the verse means. I can guarantee you that some will use this verse as evidence that Jesus is God and Son of God. And some CHRISTIANs will also disagree. If that happens do you still think true disciples of Jesus wrote Bible?. This is your assignment. God is not author of confusion

Informer155:
Ok.....BUT .....there are 114 books/chapter/sura in the HOLY Qur'an I think..... With Al-Baqara being the highest having 286 verses only. How many hours it will take an average Muslim to read through all the (Holy Quran)and memorize? I think its not much....isnt it empiree?

Lets talk realities my people, ONE GOD,ONE LOVE,ONE NIGERIA....

this is up to individual preference

deepwater:
Dayum!!!

So the cars have started tripping into the soil of Nigeria.

Moracfukas have all arrived in drove to weep all at once, like say them blow whistle for them

bitc.hes here acting like they own NL auto section

Little ones cry no more, the cartel has been seized and hereby dissolved.

Go look for something else to do.

you sound crazy. if I have to describe how you look, it is this.

Informer155:
OK my dear empiree I try to do your assignment, and I must acknowledged your peace and understanding. Can we go to the next question sir? I think we've done justice to that already.

Yes, bring it on, sir.

Informer155:
2- I have some of Jesus words recorded by his disciples to share with you if you want to hear some of the remaining injeel(scripture) Jesus talked about for Allah gave him.

kindly share with us. Let's see

By the way, who is Jesus according to your understanding?

Informer155:
Now someone WAKEUP and say all the injeel IS LOST!!!!!!! No record, only some RECORDS,recorded by Jesus dicples (JESUS FOLLOWER'S) who have no brain to share,practice or think about his teaching 33/years on earth

Thank you Muslims for such great revelation.

you don't need to rush to conclusions and condemn muslims. The truth is glaring and this is how you know Jesus teaching is almost non-existent amongst CHRISTIANs and Jews.


Ask 10 CHRISTIANs if Jesus is God and wait for their answers. If their responses collaborate then, they have true message of Jesus. If however they give you conflicting responses like some say Jesus is God. Others say, no he's not God but son of God. Another set of Christians say Jesus is both God and son at the same time.

Then, you should ask yourself what exactly Jesus disciples wrote down about Jesus?. It is a matter of sincerity on your part. Islam however is very clear about Jesus. You will never get conflicting reports about who Jesus is.

So I am giving you this assignment to do your research. Your logic is Quran came much later which means it could not have corrected Bible. The question then comes, which one of the many Bibles Jesus preached?. Again, it is about sincerity in your part to inquire critically.

Olalan:
A very expensive accident this is..........the insurance companies wouldn't be happy at all.

this is why car insurance is on the high side for 25 year old and younger

Informer155:
My point is this...
1-one said the book given to him is lost(was it a written form)
2-one said the injeel (scripture was distorted lol).was it a book written and was distorted or what?)
3-empi.ree said....once Jesus spoke a word that's gone.and the injeel(scripture is never compiled)
The dicples just recorded some injeel words...



Was the injeel a book,spirit, head knowledge, or something I can't understand

Where is/was the recorded words/deeds of Jesus if at all there was a record?

I seen your confusion.

Let me tell you what you don't understand. God doesn't have language. He communicated with us in a language we can understand. Quran used "message" and "Book" to describe mission of Prophets and messangers. Also Quran uses the word "Book" to describe Divine scriptures revealed on tablets (Lauh Al-Mahfuz).

So if God speaks of Book doesn't mean injeel (in book form) dropped from the sky. Rather it is the message itself that were later coverted to written form. So bottom line is, true message of Jesus was lost. Whether you call it book or message, it is lost. It is true that desciples must have written some infos about Jesus and his mission. Some of the truth of what they wrote down is what we found today in the Bible.

What is clear is that Bible today is not injeel. If you think it is, then onus is on you to provide evidence that Jesus wrote and compiled them.

Jesus did not write anything down. What we have evidence for is here was sent with message.

JeromeBlack:
Which arabs? The war torn Syria? The hot blooded Iranians? The fanatic Saudis?

you don't get it and you may never get it

^^^

So what's your point?. All of us are saying the same thing. He's right. Read pictures I posted above earlier and see dates those Bibles were written

Informer155:
Rashduct4luv said...this sir

so what's the difference from what I said?. Just bcus he said it is lost?. Yes, that's what we say generally. It is lost bcuz Jesus original message is lost

Informer155:
But his disciples believed him na? And recorded his injeel teachings na.....or when he died his disciples too died all without doing anything....

I said that not all of them. Many of them rejected him save few. Read my subsequent post above. Those who believed him sincerely, what they wrote in truth are the remnants truths you found in the Bible today. But majority of the stories are either dilluted or outright false

Check history no man ever lived that his family and friends don't know about him well....if not all his lifestyle at least the key words he spoke will be remembered by his disciples na....

why then modern Bibles have conflicting narrations about Jesus and many other events?.

For instance, if you ask 10 CHRISTIANs who is Jesus?. You will get different answers. Why is that?. Because they have different accounts of Jesus identity. Understand?.

And concerning Jew...lol we have millions of Jew Christian that lived,died, and some still alive preaching Jesus.we also have Muslim Jews... So what are you saying? If Jew accept Islam u won't ....I know maryam as a Jew so at least if all Jew hate him she won't do that right.....I know paul the convert etc

sorry, Paul was not Jesus disciple. He came much later after Jesus and he was the founder of CHRISTIANITY

Informer155:
Q1


**The stories I read in Quran about Noah,John,Zacharias, Mary,Jesus etc is so unreal,funny and dramatic compared to the BIble.world believed that Bible existed more than 600 years before Quran.so which story should I believe in? Example:
Allah SWT said:

قَالَ رَبِّ اجْعَل لِّىٓ ءَايَةً  ۚ قَالَ ءَايَتُكَ أَلَّا تُكَلِّمَ النَّاسَ ثَلٰثَ لَيَالٍ سَوِيًّا
"[Zechariah] said, My Lord, make for me a sign. He said, Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights, [being] sound."
Maryam 19: 10

"And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season." Luke1:20

which one is true between the two? and so many other stories

What's your concern here?. Both Quran and Bible verses you quoted actually have some similarities except different wordings. Which means this specific story is true about Zakariya(as).

Note, we use Quran as Divine standard to deduce truth from falsehood from the Bible bcus Bible also has elements of truth in it. But unfortunately, there are lots of fabricated stories in it. This is why we use Quran as the standard. For in stance we read in the Bible where great prophets of God are blasphemed. We reject such nonsense.

Informer155:
"A message sent by God to preach to people... and his disciples heard it... His disciples wrote down some" interesting...

Jesus was a Jew,preaching to them in their ears the words of injeel......was there a formating of brain of his disciples and the people he preached to after he departed? No!! There must be a record of his birth,death,works,lifstyles,words,teachings etc Even Quran and Jesuses disciples recorded some,who are his disciples that recorded the correct words he had said from injeel Were they buried with the words spoken to them by Jesus(from injeel) or continued to share it after his dead? Empiree?

Remember majority o them dont believe him till this day. SO they rejected him. What do you think they would write about him?



But when Isa perceived unbelief on their part, he said Who will be my helpers in Allah's way? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the way) of Allah: We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones. Q3:52


So if today you see a jew who claims to be christian and accept Jesus christ, you better scrutinize him/her very well. He/she has a plan that is neither in favor of christianity and definitely not islam.

Informer155:
Look at his(Jesus word) verse 33 " as long as he is alive he remained blessed, prayerful,zakah,and with the scripture (injeel ) given to him.or is it that he forget/didn't use the injeel while living??.... Am just thinking

This is verse 33 of sura Maryam


And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."


must he mention name of his Book?

Informer155:
Interesting!.. Allah gave Jesus injeel?OK.when was Jesus given that injeel Empiree?and for what? Where is even the injeel now?....remember that Jesus had lived for 33 years with people on earth before he died! And he was able to talk as early as an infant!..maryam 19:29-32

فَأَشَارَتْ إِلَيْهِ  ۖ قَالُوا كَيْفَ نُكَلِّمُ مَنْ كَانَ فِى الْمَهْدِ صَبِيًّا
"So she pointed to him. They said, How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"

قَالَ إِنِّى عَبْدُ اللَّهِ ءَاتٰىنِىَ الْكِتٰبَ وَجَعَلَنِى نَبِيًّا
"[Jesus] said, Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet."

وَجَعَلَنِى مُبَارَكًا أَيْنَ مَا كُنْتُ وَأَوْصٰنِى بِالصَّلٰوةِ وَالزَّكٰوةِ مَا دُمْتُ حَيًّا
"And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive"

وَبَرًّۢا بِوٰلِدَتِى وَلَمْ يَجْعَلْنِى جَبَّارًا شَقِيًّا
"And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.".............so tell me more about injeel sir empires!

Whats your question?. Injeel of Jesus was simply his message sent to him by God to preach to the people. That's his Book called Injeel. No evidence of compiled injeel in book form. Once Jesus preached a message, that's gone. Some are written down by his disciples. But all these bibles you see today claiming Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. These 4 writers are not disciples. This is why their account of story of Jesus differ amongst themselves (contradictions).

Quran the other hand captured and preserved Jesus message.

Informer155:
There is only one Holy Qur'an sir, and there are millions versions of Bible........agreed


Now Mr Empires,my questions are from the one and only Holy Qur'an sent from Allah in Mecca........ Can you just answer me great one?

..

what's your question, sir?

Informer155:
Q2

**if Jesus in the Quran is a prophet, why don't we do what he says? where can I see his words in the Quran?

[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path." (19:36)

beside he appeared more than Mohammeds name in the Bible.
.Allah SWT said:

قَالَ إِنِّى عَبْدُ اللَّهِ ءَاتٰىنِىَ الْكِتٰبَ وَجَعَلَنِى نَبِيًّا
"[Jesus] said, Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet."
Maryam 19:30.

whats your point?

where are the scriptures given to him(Jesus)?or is it also the Quran? help

Scripture given to Jesus was Injeel. Injeel is not Bible. Bible is collection of stories written by different men, usually unknown people

Are you basing validity of stories of religious Books in order of age?. Is this your methodology?. If so it is wrong methodology

Informer155:
Q1


**The stories I read in Quran about Noah,John,Zacharias, Mary,Jesus etc is so unreal,funny and dramatic compared to the BIble.world believed that Bible existed more than 600 years before Quran.so which story should I believe in? Example:
Allah SWT said:

قَالَ رَبِّ اجْعَل لِّىٓ ءَايَةً  ۚ قَالَ ءَايَتُكَ أَلَّا تُكَلِّمَ النَّاسَ ثَلٰثَ لَيَالٍ سَوِيًّا
"[Zechariah] said, My Lord, make for me a sign. He said, Your sign is that you will not speak to the people for three nights, [being] sound."
Maryam 19: 10

"And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season." Luke1:20

which one is true between the two? and so many other stories

Informer155:
you and obiekue2 had problem you got angry and left isn't it sir?.And
if I was ever childish I apologized. also I don't know the answers to that,if you followed our discussion with Ruduct@islam-muslim section I didn't even know why Holy Qur'an use "WE" instead of "I" for Allah,until he clarified me.so you can see my level of ignorance.

and also,I haven't did such comment on any thread,maybe I was trying to say something check it well,and if I truly said that I apologized.

good let's continue.....

hummm

sirfemoz:
Not doubting that, but this government doesn't grant freedom not to talk of the absolute one. It's when you are free that you will ask for absolute freedom. This current government doesn't like criticism, yet they criticised previous governments.

Do you realize you just had freedom to posted this criticism of this govt and you have not been locked up yet?

As far as i am concerned i like it this way way. All hands must be on deck. All this adm needs is time to dismantle looting network. You need to be a fair dictator to govern nigeria. You are hard headed people

sirfemoz:
That was when democracy was at work.This current government will grant you freedom of speech, but freedom after speech is not guaranteed.

There is no absolute freedom anywhere in the world. No absolute freedom means respect. What Nigeria needs is military bcuz ou are becoming uncultured spoiled brats in the name of democracy.

Even George Bush said during his regime that "freedom is not free".

Yesterday on MSNBC in the aftermath of the mass shootings in the United States, a politician said about gun right that there is nothing like absolute right.

Informer155:
Hmmmm OK, since Em.piree and co got angry and left. Is there any of my faithful Muslim brother here that can help me?? Your kind answer is very welcome.... I BEG YOU

بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
"In the name of Allah, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful." Al-Faatiha 1:1

no one got angry. Stop being childish and answer my question. I know what I'm talking about. You are asking questions that most likely you know you answers for. All I wanted to know was your true position because I read your comment where answered questions about Islam. So I'm wondering why did you opened this thread and seeking answers after answering questions here on Islam elsewhere?

Is this not you?