₦airaland Forum

tintingz:
Allah is classify as an anthropomorphic god, no matter how apologetic you're it still paint Allah as human-like personality.

Can we understand Allah apart of this human-like characters? Is he bound to Human moral codes?

I'm expecting an Almighty God to communicate with his creation without behaving like his creation.

You have a very serious problem.

Allah communicates in the language we understand. Let's take for instance those who communicate with jinns, Angels and other supernatural beings and send them on errands, these spirit communicate in any language locally. This means, if you send a jinn to America or english speaking regions, he speaks in the language of the region. If you send him to India, he speaks their language. If you send him to Igboland, he speaks igbo. When he returns to you, he speaks your language which is Yoruba. But if you send him to these places if ony yoruba he understands, then there will be no effective communications. Which means, there is no way he can effectively delivers your message. I have told you before that there is always parable for everything.

So whenever Allah wants to communicate, He does so at the level of the intended recipients.


It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with Allah’s permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise. (Quran 42:51)


Another verse says:

And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. Q14:4


So the so called anthropomorphism you keep talking about is non existence unless you believe those human attributes are actually of God. If i want to change the dimension of this discussion in a way that you won't understand His Majesty, i can do that as well. Example, it takes 25,000 years to travel from one Galaxy to another, and we have 100 billion galaxies. All these Galaxies are far away from kursi of Allah, and kursi is even no where near Allah contrary to your saying that Allah sits on a chair. So this is just a tip. Does this God sounds human to you?

Adeboye and other NIgerian yahoo pastors will never watch this
https://www.instagram.com/p/BdmyDCIHUO-/

Adeboye and other NIgerian yahoo pastors will never watch this
https://www.instagram.com/p/BdmyDCIHUO-/

Fundamentalist:
Replying you is a waste of time

This is the reality of abo eko . You jumped into a cold pool and now you are shivering after you are exposed

The "chosen people" indeed.

Fundamentalist:
You are only exhibiting Sufi ideologies here on nairaland, trying to adopt mu'tazilah ideologies just to look rational makes you more foolish

don't derail this thread.

If "feeling" used in the sentence makes you uncomfortable, then, you have many sahih ahadith that you will need to declare heretic. Again, have you no sense?

Attached, writer use 'feel' to describe Allah reaction to supplicating servants. What's the difference between you and tintingz now. She

Your can as well condemned translated Quran for using He for Allah bcus 'he' is human attribute.

Fundamentalist:
Ash-Shura 42:11

فَاطِرُ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِۚ جَعَلَ لَكُم مِّنْ أَنفُسِكُمْ أَزْوَٰجًا وَمِنَ ٱلْأَنْعَٰمِ أَزْوَٰجًاۖ يَذْرَؤُكُمْ فِيهِۚ لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِۦ شَىْءٌۖ وَهُوَ ٱلسَّمِيعُ ٱلْبَصِيرُ

[He is] Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him , and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.


I wonder who has no sense

your are gonna be ignored soon

tintingz:
Sorry if it sound offensive but Allah is an anthropomorphic god, a god with Human traits and character, a god that get angry, emotions, sit on a throne, give laws like humans, if you don't see these attributes in the Quran about Allah then I wonder what you have reading.

listen, Quran can not be translated, NEVER. Rather, it can only be explained. Allah used words that we as humans can comprehend. If He's to communicate with us the way He's in His absolute form, we can not understand anything. Allah is not like humans.

So when Allah says He sees, He speaks etc it doesn't mean He sees or speaks like human beings with mouth. You are derailing this thread now.

Fundamentalist:
@ bolded

I'm highly disappointed as this is coming from a sensible and sane human being. What is this difference between this school of thought and that of pagan Arabs.

So you have become Allah's personal Assistant to tell us how He feels

have you no sense?

tintingz:
Do you agree Allah behave like humans, yes or no?

Auzubillah. Astagfirullah.

Let make the argument easier to comprehend.

You just wanna derail this thread by any means neccessary right?. Anyways, let me drop this again. Allah is Ar-Rahaman (The Most Merciful). Don't we have humans who are merciful?. If yes, then, does that mean they share Allah's Attributes or Allah behave like humans?.

Allah is Al-mulk (sovereign) or Power. Yet, we have kings and supreme leaders. Does that mean they share Allah's Attributes or that Allah behave like humans as you said?. So because i said Allah doesnt want rivals just like humans want no rivals means Allah behaves like humans?

Bro, this is 2018. I dont expect you to stoop this low. Common now, you can do better than this. Even animals dont want rivals especially lions. So you may even go further to mock Allah in that sense too right?. Dont be a laughing stock on nairaland.

LadunaI:
Excellent analysis!!!

Jazakhallahu khairan for this beautiful reply.

Long time bro...how are things?

Alhamdulilah, i am fine. I should be saying to you "long time".

Don't mind the guy. People Like him and atheists don't need to be dealt with theologically. They need intellectual discourse.

tintingz:
Assumption assumption assumption!

The epistle you posted is not close to any evidence for the Gods, the thing is you're not with the Gods!

Your epistle only show that Gods have Human behavior and character including Allah(the reason they are called personal gods in philosophy), this shows Gods are limited in intelligent even humans that are said not to be perfect in intelligent knows a peace committee is needed in every society, the reason UN was created, so Gods are dumb to create a peace committee to unite every Gods?

So the question is never answered as you haven't provide evidence how Gods will conflict each other, you only support my argument that Gods are limited and bound to human behavior(Anthropomorphism).

The premise question still not yet refuted.

You are not using thinking capacity Allah gave to you at all.

MarieSucre:
He was airlifted. Hmmnn interesting. Could evidence of this be provided please?

Isra and miraj is what i am referring to Surah Isra (17 chapter of Quran)

tintingz:
These are just assumptions, what evidence do you have that all Gods will have conflicts, you never thought of all Gods uniting together to create the universe?

There are always parables or illustrations for us on this planet. So there are plenty of examples for you to read. Let me share with you just a few.

Boyfriend and girlfriend. You see your girl talking to another dude, how do you feel?. You dont need to lie about this. Your feeling is to rage and war with the dude, correct?. Why dont you want this rival or coequal?

How about husband and wife?. You see your wife kissing another man at supermarket or you caught your wife with another man in your matrimonial bed. How do you feel sir?. I am sure if you have a gun, you gonna gun down both of them or the man. Why would you do that?. It is your natural instincts at work. Meaning, you do not want co-equal, right?

Exactly how Allah feels (astaghfirullah) when His creature set up partners with Him. These are micro examples. How about macro?

Let's take presidential race for example. Why do you have one president?. Why not two?. If you have two presidents in the same country, they not gonna gree. If a president decides to go to war, the other may want dialogue. They gonna have to trash and fight themselves off first before facing the enemies. Why do the politicians kill their opposition party?. The answer is they do not want rivals

Another example is world power. They want no rival. You can take US for instance. Why does the US always sanction any nation that goes against her policies?. Why does the US has the right to launch and test rockets but others cant?. Why is US agitate with NK and Iran over nuclear arsenal?. The answer is she wants no rivals. This is called POWER which can not be challenged by anyone.

Now, Allah is saying to you that He alone is the OWNER of the universe. He created and fashioned it. He created you and I and all that exist. He gives us sun and the moon at their appropriate time without any conflict. If there had been more than one God, there would have been conflicts btw the sun and the moon needless to say other galaxies He created and other unseen and unknown.

There are tips of iceberg to get you to use your thinking capacity and thinking faculty that Allah gave to you. Enough said

[quote author=Gbemishile1 post=63915669]stupid post am sorry to say
please post sensible topics as muslims so the xtians would not have an avenue of insulting our religion
who is the God of wealth if not Allah swt[/quote]my point

LaEvilIMiss:
Why do discussions on faith ultimately degrade into unoriginal reasoning and valueless sentiment

those are the kind of brainless people left on earth. They think from anus

WinningSun:
stop being ignorant. he was a trader for his wife khadija before his prophethood. there are accounts that his trade was eastward.

one of his hadith (pbuh) said "seek for knowledge even if it as far as China".

he wouldn't have made refrence to China if probably he or other Arab entourage have not trade up to China.

would be great if you give detail account of his trip outside of Arabia during his trade with khadija, sir

Newnas:
Now I think you got this wrong sir.

The names of those Arab idols should never be used for Allah.

what are you taking about? I guess you don't understand my point. Christians still use Allah but in the wrong context.

Moreover, language is a terminology.

So we don't need the names of their idols because even the polytheists don't use it for their creator.

linguistic is what I'm dealing with here. I don't believe in Aje the so "god of wealth". That's crap

tintingz:
The question now is, can you proof your claim these gods and goddess don't exist and Allah exist?

And was Allah among the Arabian pagan gods or not?

wallahi, I was thinking of you when I typed that.
I expected you would ask me this and you didn't disappoint

Your question can be easily refuted by telling you now that if there are many gods as you claimed, we as humans and other creatures can not live in peace. As in, all these gods of yours could have been fighting for powers and controls.

For example, a god would want sun at sunset, another god wants sun at night, another god wants both at the same time. Another god wants summer in the winter, another god wants winter in summer. The whole planet would have crumbled. That's why Allah said that He has no partners to compete with HIM. Allah ilahu waidu La ilaha ila Allah

Saudi Women Divorces Husband because he loves her more than his own mother :  BAHA — A 29-year-old Saudi man was in for the shock of his life when his wife, whom he loved so much, approached the court for a divorce.
The estranged husband did not know why his wife would want divorce from him even though he did everything possible for her, but she was adamant in her demand.


She admitted that her husband had never denied anything to her but she insisted on leaving him because he preferred her over his own mother.


"I can never trust a man who does everything for his wife while he denies even a small favor to his mother," she told the judge.


Neither the husband nor wife was identified. The husband, who was in a deep shock, told the judge that he did not want to leave his wife and that he would do everything to keep her but she bluntly rejected the offer.


The woman admitted that her husband had spent a lot of money on her, taking her on foreign trips and buying her everything she wanted, but said she did not want to continue her life with him.


"A man who is not good to his own mother cannot be trusted. He may turn his back on me anytime in the future," she said.
The surprised husband asked her, "Didn't I abandon my own family for you?" She replied, "Yes, and this is the very reason I want divorce from you."
The woman told the judge that everything her husband said in the court was correct but she was determined to leave him because he preferred her over his family members, including his mother.


She told the judge that she could not wait until the day her husband would abandon her the same way he had abandoned his mother. The woman returned the dowry her husband had given her and the judge granted the divorce.
A judicial source praised the woman for her noble stand and said she was right to ask for divorce since the husband placed her above his own mother.


He said the woman thought that a man who would leave his own mother for another woman could never be trusted.
The source said some men believed that blindly obeying their wives and doing everything for them was the way to win perpetual love. "This is not correct. A man must put his family, especially his mother, above everything else," he said. He said his wife was not happy because he did more favors to her than to the woman who gave him birth, brought him up and sacrificed her own life for his happiness.


  http://saudigazette.com.sa/article/525255/SAUDI-ARABIA/Wife-gets-divorce-from-man-who-loved-her-more-than-his-mother

Foolishness indeed. I have no knowledge of remnants and i will not speak on it. One thing however is clear, for the fact that they claimed footprint of nabi(saw) defeats their argument. It is proven, and we all know, even when we debate christians, that nabi only chored between Makkah and Medina. After that, he was airlifted. No historical evidence of him travelled to Asia region.

nisai, ur thread should hit front page to read views. You need to holla @sissie

^^^

I don't deny the fact that some do say "Aje olokun" to bless them with this and that. As you rightly said, if the "gods" did exist, they were human beings, most likely of political, economic and socially affluence people. In another word, public figures that they later idolized after those people or even in their lifetime. And later generation crafted them into some sort of imageries and superstitious beliefs. I dont deny this.

What i denied or said that don't exist are gods and goddesses (unseen) who allegedly happened to have independent powers alongside Allah to provide wealth, power, victory etc, independent of Allah. These don't exist. This is false. It is like babalawo who wakes up in the morning, pours some palm oil on stone in front of his house and says to it something like "let today be great for me". "I am going to war give me victory" etc. If we give folks like that dawah, we say to them, it is not the stone that gives you wealth or make your day great or gives you victory. It is Allah who does that. The stone he idolizes does nothing. No matter how long he is been doing that shirk, no matter how much people venerate such thing, that thing is not God/god. Nobody is there to answer them except by Allah's will.

Same thing applies to Aje. Let's forget about aje means money for now. If truly there is goddess called "Aje", to us as muslims, such thing doesn't exist. It only exist in their brain. It is superstitious belief. There is no "Aje olokun" anywhere unless they invoke jinn to steal money for them. Allah is all source of everything. We should purify that for them. Besides, Aje is not commonly used by many anyways. I still see Aje as a word for money. Nothing more. Not god/goddess who bestows wealth. Allah is the ONLY ar-razzaq الرزاق (Provider/Sustainer). He is Al-Wahhab {Bestower}. I don't believe in other imaginary fairy tales by Yorubas. They have no evidence for their many "gods". I see aje as another word for money just like Igbo called God chineke. If they say i am ignorant, i ask them for evidence of those "gods".

The thing is, these craps should have disappeared long ago just like Arabian but yoruba people are very stubborn like Sheikh Akindele rightly said.

...

^^^

Question is, did those gods and goddesses exist?. Absolutely not. They are fictional characters. It is the same way pre-islamic arabs had many gods for Allah. Whoever believes "aje" is an entity or goddess that provides wealth, it is our collective responsibility to condemn that. The article you posted doesnt even shy away from saying aje is wealth. Those people formed gods and goddesses in their heads, that a god in in charge of water. Another god is in charge of war, another god is in charge of wealth. All these are nonsense. It is the same one God in charge of it all. We simply need to correct them about that. Aje means owo (money) to me. Nothing else. I have no doubt about that. This is why my grandpa cut off any relationship in our family with many Yoruba cultural practices. That's he cut off our kingship lineage when it was his turn.


I have used the word Allah as example. Should we stop using Allah for Creator just bcus Arab christians still use it, and it means the same thing as average christian use God/god?. Some years ago, Palestinian christians during their xmas, placed banner up with inscription "Isa is son of Allah". Palestinian muslims got there to correct them in essence. Remember these christians speak arabic, that's why they easily used Allah and Isa. Why dont they use Jesus and God?

So it is our duty to correct cultural nonsense that Aje is wealth NOT "god of wealth". The same goes with "god of iron", god of this and that. Those things dont exist. Those old people simply got it wrong. I do not believe there is a god of wealth from yoruba perspective. There is only one God. As for the festival of wealth in yoruba concept, we simply should avoid that. Very simple. It is the same way some foolish rich people celebrate "odun owo" i:e festival of money, a fictional musical story by Chief Ebenezer Obey.


"god of wealth" from Yoruba notion does not exist. It is fictional. If it actually exists, only then we can enforce muslims form using it. What we need to do is to PURIFY the name and essence rather than stop people from using it. Prophet Muhammad(P) didnt destroy Kaaba just bcus keferi turned into shirk and kufr. He purified it instead.

Besides, Aje is not a common phrase on a daily basis. So it should never be a subject of controversy. If we start telling people in yorubaland to stop using this and that, we are destroying yoruba heritage. We should purify it and tell people that there is nothing called Aje that provides wealth nor come to visit you at market. I don't believe such nonsense. Remember OWO EYO (cowry) is called Aje, indicating aje is money. So i am not insisting in "shirk concept". I am purifying the essence and concept. As for "e taa ooo". I don't have problem with that. There is always alternative for everything. And people who use "aje a waa", "aje ooo" etc in our generation are baby boomers anyways. Many of us dont.


So Monday is 'ojo aje' – the day for making wealth and reaping profits according to your article. Why didnt author say Monday is the day of the creator of wealth?. Indeed, Monday is rush hour. Everyone chases bag ($$$$) and hustles. I dont freaking care what Yoruba concept of Aje is.

Aje to me means money, مال


Ps, i dont know if any one noticed this. If someone builds a mansion and those mama come to visit, they scream "aje o ku ikale". Money is what they mean not god or goddess of wealth

........

I still don't know what's the big deal here. Aje is MONEY for crying out loud. What people thought about it culturally those days is practically and literally irrelevant now.

Christians Arabs misconstrue ALLAH as well, does that stop Muslims from using ALLAH?. Remember Wasiu Ayinde''s song where he sang "owo owo...aje aje". He wasn't referring any deity but money. Even money ritualists, if they succeed in their ritual plans and money is gotten from it, they scream 'aje re (owo re)'. They aren't refering to deity.

If culturally some believe Aje is an entity for the provision of wealth, that's their definition. That's their palava.

And yoruba name for Monday is "òjó ájé". In this context it is referring to "business day". Some people sing 'waka' like "àjé wa mi wa", simply means "chasing bag". None of these have god or deity or supernatural connotations. So I don't know what the big deal here.

Aje as in "god of wealth" is fictional character. To believe in that is kufr. If you don't feel comfortable using AJE, that's you. There are many synonymous words use for something. Aje is one of them for money.

And no one here relegates Islamic given names for these things which are sunnah. Islam is not against culture for as long as it is not in conflict with it. If you live in the West where your phone or Internet activities may be easily tapped, say for instance you are talking about money on the phone and you don't want authority know what your conversation is about, the first thing you do is you don't speak English. This doesn't mean they don't know your language. They most likely know owo means money, owo is common word for money.

In that case, you want to use "ijinle" yoruba or a more complicated word for money. You can easily use Àjé to confuse them because when it comes to "moving money", authority most likely listen to your conversations. This is why people who do fraud to get immigration paper use the word "pali" instead of documents or papers.

Rashduct4luv:
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Alhamdulillah! That's your position!
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This hadeeth was narrated by at-Tirmidhi (2442), Ahmad (1630) and Ibn Hibbaan (722) from al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I memorized from the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him): “Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt, for truth leads to reassurance and lies lead to uncertainty.” Classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allah have mercy on him).
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This hadeeth highlights the importance of being careful when faced with doubtful and dubious matters, and keeping away from them, because in the case of that which is definitely halaal, the believer will have no doubt in his heart concerning it – and doubt here means anxiety and worry – rather he will feel at ease and will have reassurance in his heart. As for that which is doubtful, he will feel anxiety and worry concerning it.
End quote from Jaami‘ al-‘Uloom wa’l-Hukam , 1/280.
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And finally, the minutest student of knowledge who knows the basics of Tawheed Ar-Roobubiyyah and Al-Uloohiyyah will know that Allah is the sole director of our affairs and Allah is the only One to be worshipped!
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Aje is the name of a Yoruba diety!
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And you are praying for sales to Allah right or to whom?
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Please let's forget this!
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May Allah guide us all.

Did i tell you i am in doubt?. You keep saying Ajè means deity. That's your definition not me and definitely not majority. I sensed this would happened when i posted my first post here. Ajè is MONEY not deity. Not "god of wealth". It is the same as saying "Ajè a wa yin wa oo as òwó a wa yin wa ooo". If Ajè is god to you, thats your problem. I don't have any doubt in anything. You placed that in my mouth. Why are you complicating yourself?


Soon you gonna start telling people that saying "e ku oro ajè oo" is shirk, and youths start stomping their feet on everyone that saying "Ajè is ebo" (shirk). Yet, they use Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday which are names of gods of your colonial masters. Why not stay away from using these? Saying "A ku oro aje oo" is like saying "a ku oro MONEY"

Whats that gotta do with deity?


Ajè a wa means money a wa

A ku oro ajè means a ku oro owo

"Ajè (deity or god) as you want to force it on me doesn't exist.

Still supporting them?

Netanyahu asks if African ‘infiltrators’ can be forcibly removed from Israel. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIw9pLOqTc

Rashduct4luv:
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My wife understands this perfectly and the position is to leave that which is doubtful!
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I never mentioned Mushrik or Shirk in my comments as I understand it's conditions...
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ẹẹta àbí wàá ta. It's simple.
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Muslims in the past will be judged according to the information reaching them about Islam, their striving, arrogance, etc. And we too would be judged similarly without the least injustice.

good if you are on mutual understanding. But my position stands that "Aje awa oo" or ete oo means nothing but form of consumers' greetings. No deities/gods trash attached. Period.

Rashduct4luv:
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Why not simply go with what is not doubtful?
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Can I say Ogun ngbọ too while implying that I am simply saying the truth?
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What is haram is clear! What is halal is clear. Let's leave whatever is doubtful.
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Aata ooo,

Aba, why are you dragging it?. Are you then saying all muslims in the past who have used the phrase without second thought of deity associated with it were mushrikun?. There is nothing doubtful here. That's why i gave you example of ziyara to the graves unless you wanna say to stop visiting graves too?. How do you say to your wife when she gets ready for market in the morning?