₦airaland Forum

Contact17

What you typed up there doesnt really address issue. It is a general rule. There is obligatory worship and voluntary one. In obligatory worship like salat, ramadan etc, we do them EXACTLY as prescribed. No questions asked. These are rigid. We can not do otherwise. We can not interpolate anything therein.

For voluntary acts, this is flexible within Shari'a. Anyting you do MUST be within Shari'a. It is up to individual's capacity. This is naflat. Naflat are not just 2 rakat you make. Naflat are everything you do voluntarily. That's sadaqat, set of du'as, qiyam layl, dhkr etc. That's called naflat. These are not timing except for forbidden time you not supposed to pray. Islam allows for flexibility in this regard. It is not rigid at all as you people portray. It is from this one Allah will use to rectify mistakes you make in your obligatory duties.

Stop comparing yourself with Saudis. They can be lazy people. They are rich. They only enjoy Salat of nabi Ibrahim(as). Go and read ahadith about them. They are lazy people.

Contact17:
When people perform hajj or umrah, they are reciting on their own NOT in unison (pausing at the same time etc). The video wasn't showing what actual hajj or umrah is. It only showed pictures and inserted an audio.

Okay then, click on my signature when hajj start and watch. Do you think everybody at hajj know the phrase?. Some dont know. They are either sponsored or fund themselves doesnt mean they have knowledge. They listen to others that day. So you are also saying indirectly it is bid'a exactly what the sister said in the video. But a brother up there disagree. You may need to watch the video. it is 40 mins i think. You are deceiving yourselves.

mfm04622:
It is worldly matter! Not religious. Innovation is very welcome in worldly matter but the way Allah want to be worshipped has been laid down and examples shown to us through the Prophet. In the mosque I use in Lagos, they hammer on the fact that the longer on stay in the mosque both before and after prayers, the more the reward. Also that Allah is not happy with whoever just offer salat without asking for his needs from Allah. May Allah guide us.

I dont have problem if you say it is worldly matter. You know how serious it is now if it is merely worldly matter, is the reason Nigerian money got messed up. You dont understand. It is connected with riba. It is not just worldly matter. it is more than that.

See, you people are confusing me. The bolded part, what are they doing, just sitting in the masjid?

But what these brothers are promoting is the opposite. Are they just siting before and after salat and doing nothing or making dhikr?. There is no hadith that forbids making congregational dua except one. That ONLY hadith says prophet(saw) limited congregational dua after salat. He did not say it is bid'a. It did not say it is not allowed. You people said it is bid'a

mfm04622:
In Islam, we should worship the way set by Allah and his Prophet. During Hajj, saying Labaik aloud an email unison is th correct way. That I not so after prayers. The circumstances are not the same!

They said that's bid'a too

distinguished1:
@Em.piree


You are mixing things up.
You are drifting from the original question. From Solah, you're delving into Hajj.

Now let's both go back to Hajj. We both watch Khamsu Swalawaat from the Holy Masaajid.
Can you please recall if you notice them making congregation Azkar after Solah?

We want to live our lives to international standards, but when it comes to Islam, we'll be talking fore-fathers. Haba!

If it is valid at hajj, it is valid anytime. That's dalil. If Saudi dont do it after their daily salat, that's them. They have history of that bcus of Ibn Abdul Wahab who forbids it. Besides, after salat at Kaaba, yes, those who sit are making dhikr or dua. As for Hajj group dhikr i posted, watch the video i posted, the sister said it is bid'a that they do talbiya. Do you agree with her?. Obviously you are all deceiving yourselves. Eid at the local level, we make group dhikr before salat as well. No scholars said it is bid'a to make congregational du'a after salat except few. They only said it should be limited contrary to what you people are promoting here.

Anyways, the sister up there said it is bid'a for making loud dhikr at Ka'aba as done yearly.

.

This is bid'a right?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xt1TMzSk84

Over 2 million muslims every year at the holiest site commit bid'a right?. You people dont think. This video is definition of CONGREGATIONAL/GROUP/ASSEMBLIES OF UNISION DHIKR.

In this video you can see congregation making dhikr in UNISON. Whoever says this is bid'a as the sister rightly in the my video above, then those who are of the opinion have strayed from ijma of the ummah

mfm04622:
The way we should look at it is this. We should answer this question. How did the Prophet do it?

The answer is each Muslim do his or her prayer individually. So, let us continue that way. Any way different from the way the Prophet did it is an innovation.

Simple

Okay, good. Money is mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Since you are upon "Qur'an and Sunnah" and anything outside of that is bid'ah or haram. Now, Money given by Allah (swt) and His messanger(saw) is Dinar and Durham (i:e Gold dinar & Silver Durham). Why are you spending paper money?.

If you want evidence for what i just said, i will provide it at your request. But do me a favor, dont tell me that's "old money" or it is worldly matter.

This is juma'h today. If anyone cares to listen would notice that imam speaks about congregational dua/dhikr after salat. And he said if you want to stay and make dua with imam, fine. If not, you can leave. This masjid is Alhu Sunnah wajam'ah of the salafi ideology/creed as well. But they are quiet reasonable unlike some people.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7DHvRGTf38

[quote author=waShine post=49217143][/quote]You quoted this hadith. Do you do it?.


Ibn 'Abbas told me, "In the lifetime of the Prophet it was the custom to celebrate Allah's praises aloud after the compulsory congregational prayers." Ibn 'Abbas further said, "When I heard the Dhikr, I would learn that the compulsory congregational prayer had ended." [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 802]


I asked brother that supports your idea the same question but he couldn't answer. Does the hadith for indicated group dhirk is forbidden?. When Ibn Abass (ra) heard loud dhikr, was it only one voice he heard?

drlateef:
We have examined all the issues raised by everyone here by our group here in my place, especially as it relates to Nasfat and other groups like that. After we examined many evidence, our conclusion was that it is acceptable to make dua in congregation if we follow certain rules:
1. The group dua in which every participates reciting dua together should not be done regularly. It can be done spontaneously and not regularly planned. Otherwise it will become another form of regular worship like salah. We based our understanding on the issue tarawih which the prophet started but then stopped because he was afraid Allah may make it far'd if it was continued like that. Although Umar bin Khatab continued after the prophet by calling it good bid'ah, but he would never have recommended it had the prophet not done it at all. Umar knew nothing can be made far'down after the prophet had died and Allah had completed Islam including mode of ibaadat. But because he saw the prophet doing it at all, he believed there must be some spiritual benefit in that.
2. The congregational dua should not be made in chorus if we have to do it regularly. Personal communication with Allah in dua is far better than in congregational dua. That's why the prophet encouraged naflah to be done at home individually than to be done in masjid, and not in congregation. The eid prayers have higher levels of worship that naflah. That's why they are held in congregation, they are almost compulsory prayers.
3. Congregational dua can be done if they are for the purpose of teaching Muslims how to make dua. This is just like having Quranic classes together. The purpose in most cases is for knowledge gardering.
I can teach my children dua by doing it with them everyday until they learn it. Then I will encourage them to do it separately because every human being has different requsets from Allah.
I personally feel that the danger of making dikr together on regular basis is that if we miss it, we may be called to account for missing it by Allah as we have made it compulsory on ourselves, just like we will account for missing regular salaat but we will not account for not making dua. If we decide to make dua regular in congregation like salaat, we might be called to account if we miss it. Walaahu aalam.

Thank You. They dont understand. They are ungrateful people. Their fathers and shuyuk taught them when they were baby but now they are men and women and biting fingers that fed them. UNGRATEFUL people.

Never for once I said group dhikr or dua as major worship. Never for one i said if i miss it it is a sin . It is absolutely mustahab. This people dont understand religion. They cant teach me anything. I simply said it is allowed. Yes, Tarawi is another evidence. Lazy people dont know religion. They do follow behind Arabs. Maybe they need to read ahadith about arab where RosulluAllah (SAW) described them as lazy people who are after taking care of animal but forget religion. They need to stop copying text online. Thats what they consider KNOWLEDGE.

This is exactly what happened in the time of Shiek Adam ilory,(RA) Sheik Ashile(RA) etc. They confronted Saudi and their Nigerian counterparts. They told them to stop waging war on dhikr

People dont use their brain anymore. This is not about "our forefather did it"

Here is a little distinction btw congregational dua and congregational dhikr.

Let me bring out the difference a little bit.

Congregational dua, what that means is after imam finishes salat and he makes dua and people say "Ameena". That's my definition of congregational dua. Bring me evidence where this is haram.



Congregational dhikr. here is no need to argue this anymore. unless you want to keep deceiving yourself by copying stuff on the internet and claim that's knowledge. Prove of group unison dhikr is evident at the beginning of Eid and on Arafat. If you say this is not unison dhikr and it is bid'a and only you are correct. In Sha Allah, that's your understanding. Stick to it but please stop calling people bid'a bcus there four school of thoughts but you only stick to one which is Hanbal.

You people are so funny. What you know now was learned bcus you heard people reciting them PRACTICALLY. I am so sure that most of us if not all were not reading text to learn what you know now. You see people did it and you did it. I read a brother up there saying is it forbidden to make congregational dua. Well, that's some serious allegation because from what i have been reading, no scholars said it is forbidden. They said it could only disturb others who come to pray late. some scholars said it (congregational dua) should be for the purpose of teaching new people and children. Once everyone learns the phrase there is no need for it. None of these scholars said it is forbidden. So you made up your own brother. If Allah and his messager did not say something is forbidden, you have no rigt to say so. Provide me evidence that making congregational dua is forbidden please.

Those men taught you islam, now you grow wing and condemned them bcus you got silly texts from from foreign land. You could have been Kafir by now if not for Allah and those men and women around you when you were baby. Keep it up. And no one says it is mandatory to do congregational dua or dhikr. It is mutahab. You are free to leave.

You compare yourself to Saudi. the people who are rich... their children are rich from birth. Prayer of nabi Ibrahmim(as) is upon them not bcus they have knowledge . That's the benefit they have. But you are poor in Nigeria and need Allah's help seriously and you condemning dua in congregation when no one is even doing it privately either. Stop being lazy.

Practice Islam . Practice what you read. I wont bother myself until you practice every hadith you read. Anything else is a waste of time. Stop calling people bid'a. respect others view.

Bid'a


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m73Hs6FzqwI

More evidence that LOUD UNISON GROUP DHIKR is not bid'a


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWI3xo_026Y


The sister really knocked it off by bringing up Arafat. Are millions of Hajjis committing bid'a when they shout in the largest group ever takbirat?

The sister who oppose group dhikr said yes it is bid'a. SubhanAllah!

She's saying we are committing bid'a every year at the Holiest site. Really funny

The 2 Eids are absolute dalil of group unison dhikr. If it is valid those times, it is valid every time. Anything else is opinion of that person.

Yankelaptops:
Empire sounds like a fool that is happy about wife beating. Why are you calling women a bi-tch, is it that men don't sin every day against Allah, so will you call yourself a Bi-tch for sinning against Allah or are you claiming to be Sin Free?

Any man that goes beyond what Allah has prescribed for beating, will account for it and may end up giving the "said bi-tch wife" some of his good deeds on the day of judgement.

Since you ready it wrong, i dont think there is much to say to you, sorry.

^

There is no way of knowing someone possessed this criteria {arrogance, pride and conceit} since they are something in the heart. We have not been granted authority to judge what's in man's heart.

However, the second reason (To avoid dirt esp najis (impure) is something obvious. It looks like this is missing from Sunni text though. Sunni text focuses only on the former. I am thinking there is more to just "pride and conceit" since that's only known to Allah. Far as I am concern the later is a strong evidence. I once listened to Sheikh Akindele's friend. I mean "Baba" as you called him. He emphasized on the najis than pride and conceit. I wonder why that part is missing though.

Indeed, agree with usermane. There are sisters whose garment drag. There is no way of knowing it could have picked up impure substance and they gonna enter masjid and pray like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWI3xo_026Y

lanrexlan:
That's sad, people trying to prove my creed is better than yours.


Brother Sino is a genius, loved that poem of his and he had written other great poems. He is my teacher


Mind sharing? Lol You should pay them or they should pay you for wrok?

I have friends that do theirs on stage, but I don't really fancy all that. I just write for the fun of it and that's all

I just wrote it for fun too and sent it to that school in another state. They only wanted my money for the cup. Truly, the cup na GOLD. They sent me its pix but would only get it for bucks. U know here they crazy. Bcus it was not them that requested for my poem...that's why.

lanrexlan:
I have no idea of that of a cow but a big ram that is not up to the size of that my kuuru goes for 80k and above. There is a very high increase in the price of rams this year, I don't know if dollar affects them too ni

I was shocked when I heard in 2008 that type of big ram my dad used to buy for 12k in the 90s cost 40k. Now same rams cost 180k. Smh

My dad loves big Agbo like these. He would buy 3 of them and a cow. But now with economy situation, I really shake my head how it is going.

Yes, everyone uses mad dollar as excuse

sino:
Bro, na special pen o, na where inspiration dey come from be that

Awon malaikat ngbe bo

Keep'em coming

^ The solution that Allah and His messnger (saw) gave us to follow comes with WISDOM. It is not wisdom to tell people to follow the way you understand it. Which means it is either your way or the highway. What you know today you did not know 5-10 yrs ago. We have many muslims like that who dont know much as you 5 yrs ago. Hence, you have to take it easy with them.

Sunnah is something recommended and can only be encouraged on people. You can't force it down their throat. Fard is what everyone MUST adhere. No question asked. But you want to make sunnah obligatory. That's unfortunately problematic.

And yet, if Muslims say what he said, you (Christians) consider them backward and barbaric, right? Bunch of hypocrites!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=825GBEOS6EM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVSkwVQ1730

well, dont know how else you gonna understand this. You said you always focus on worship but i gave solution that every pray in the masjid is base on Quran and universally accepted Sunnah. Anything else stays in private life. You cant interfere with that. If you do, you cause fitna by that. I have not seen any muslims pray salat different from what is legislated. So what act of worship you still talking about.

My approach is very simple. But you keep talking as if salafits are the only one doing everything right and everybody else is wrong.

I repeat that your ideology is the same as faisal and jabata. You can deny it but it is the fact. When everyone is in the masjid, what unites us Lailaha ilaAllah. We face same qibla, we fast same month of ramadan, we go to same hajj, we all believe in paying zakat. whoever doesnt pay does not denotes sectarianism.

Actually, as for SOME sufis you mentioned, i wasnt even referring to that. was referring to your earlier post saying you have nothing to do with them. Hence, there is nothing to talk about.

Good luck in your approach and please dont forget to return here to update us how fine you are going with it. This is the same approach i outlined 5yrs ago and a sister said, Salafists will NEVER get along with everyone else. Sheikh Faisal proved me right and those salafis at the time. You also just proved me right. So you see now that you believe you are right and everyone is wrong.

A true Salafi can reach level of Ihsan. A true Sufi can receive "firasa" from Allah. But you only believe in what you see. That's ridicules Qur'an actually. So sad they invented all these silly names. Remember that essence is what i deal with. Sufi is the heart, spiritual heart of Islam and its essence is upon tawheed. Likewise salafi, its essence is sticking to the way of aslaf which many of you arent really. You only read text that they did this. They did that. But you do not do what they did. And you must have respect for sufi and other scholars and Awliya. Am not talking about chalatants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOaoemrdIiI

[size=1pt]albaqir[/size]

^^

That's it. I knew that was your problem. Quiet unjust. I just dey read your comments and smiled all the time cus you are doing exact same thing faisal and those salafis those days were doing. I am ahead of your thought here. Even faisal that you condemned didnt criticize all Shi's nor did he criticize all sufis. He only made takfir of "grave worshipers" as they are called.

Anyways, this alfa here that you refused to listen to solve your dilemma.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7DGwpo3Zg4

I am not here to be lectured on tawheed or bid'a. Leave that for tiny tots. As elementary as it sounds, i understand its importance. But to brush all sufis with one broom was very unprofessional of you. I know your problem really. You just reading text. There is difference btw reading and practicing. If you practice text you read especially those ahadith, you would be indifference from pristine sufis. You simply have problem with the name. Period. But i only deal with the essence.

There are levels in Islam. Both Quran and Sunnah recognize this.

Islam
Iman
Ihsan

Islam is what binds us together (imran 103)

Iman, this is earned not just reading text. Here you see reality with certainty (true sufis are seen here)

Ihsan, here you dont even want to talk to people anymre except you and Allah and nothing else. (here too, Sufis is what you see here)


So you are in number 1 with me and want to compare yourself with those in number 2 and 3 ?. You are a joke

Plus you are unable to differentiate btw FARD and Sunnah or recommended practices from fard. To you, Fard is Sunnah and Sunnah is fard. You are also unable to differentiate concept of medicines from ritual worship. Everything to you and those sharing you is worship worship and worship. Anything done differently is shirk or bid'a. That's it reality of salafism. The brother in the video really addressed you and grave worshiper you mentioned. Knowledge is too much today but devoid of wisdom.

smh

Walaikum salaam

^^^

Lobatan....and you said you are different from jabata and faisal?. Jabata said your are not tawheed enough. And what you do here is what faisal was doing but I had no problem with him.

You are saying Muslims are kufar indirectly and they need tawheed. Alright good luck in your strategy.

And the verse you quoted is taking about Jews vs Muslims. Not Muslims versus Muslims. I'm not surprised really.

lanrexlan:
Only if people will remove the veil of sectarianism, tribalism, racism, injustice, hatred et al and spread peace and love on earth, wallah the world be a better place. May Allah assists us

true talk but unfortunately no one wants to put down their boxing gloves

Erm, brother which kind pen you dey look since na? You should pen something for Eid o

I like his poem "cry" written in sister ayinba's thread. That's lovely stuff. For me I'm not to good at it. Only one I wrote in 2004 that I got award for. I didn't even expect award. I just wrote it and sent it to a company and they sent it back to me weeks later in a customized wooden frame accompanied with a freaking bill to pay for a silly IFE (WORLDCUP) .

I was mad broke and dumped the trash. But I still keep my frame though. They wanted my attention on a stage to recite my poem at a graduation but I hate publicity like that so I turned it down. All I wanted was my IFE but they put me on condition. Either I pay half price for it and have it sent to me or attend the graduation and get it free.

Since then I didn't write anything

^
But you didn't have to call se.Un. what is he gotta do with this?

lanrexlan:
Lol The scarier the better . That's obe I tell ya



It's not Nigerian breed ke, but Empir.ee how about buying this kind ram for Ileya?;Na Eran abubutan

Lol...i was even going to ask you cost of those big rams this yr and cow?

Sign Of Last Age


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oTEvAasllc