₦airaland Forum

^^^ @ Nuke

Can you imagine someone suggesting that those three passages are not "new testament" and not for the "church".

And this is a person who is a "state pastor" in Chris Embassy! Of course our greatest concern with the work of anti-Christs is with that which they are trying to do from within with their attempts at penetration of the true Church!

Joagbaje:
Obey what na. What law ,what command? Is it say in the bible to "obey God" if there is quote it out . . .

OK I will indulge you (this for the third time because the passages below have already been quoted twice on this thread)!


John 14:15

If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 15:10

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

1 John 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome

nuella2:
@enigma
When pastor chris says we are not to obey the word but to Do the word thats what he always says, the word obey sounds like you are under being compelled to bc you are afraid of the outcome of not obeying not bc you enjoy obeying. Like i said i prefer using Do the word than obey . I perfectly understand pastor chris, i dont blame you if you misunderstand him cos the statement was not properly explained for everybody to comprehend. He didnt mean you should disobey God, it simply means be a doer of the word and enjoy practicing the word cos we are called to be doers of the word of God.

^^^ Well, please inform Oyakhilome (I don't know how you can reach him, email?) that you can obey someone, especially God, not because of fear but because of love for the person!

Is he that much of a dunce that he does not know that or might it be that he is possibly working to a different agenda?

nuella2:
Hello ENIGMA,

You know must times christians make a deal out of nothing, we are called obedient children in the bible, just that when the word obey is used must time people have this idea of the ten commandments, of course we are to obey God. But it is diff from having laws and commandments we have the law witten in our hearts today so we are to do the word of God today, but i think if i understand what another christian mean and he uses the word obey God i am okay with it but i prefer to use the word 'do"

So Oyakhilome was wrong to say that Christians are not told (required?) to obey God, then?

Is it a good thing for him to mislead people (especially Christians) like that?

And it is not simply about the ten commandments as you suggest; there are so many things that we are taught in the New Testament ---- are we not required to obey them? Let us take just one example: in Matthew 7:12 Jesus said, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Are Christians required to obey Jesus' command in that verse or not?


PS the reason that I use Christian/s in italics is that, I don't mind if Oyakhilome directs his teachings to his "Gods" ----- but it becomes my concern when he, Joagbaje or anyone else tries to confuse and mislead non-"Gods" and Christians in particular.

Look Petres e be like say me and you too dey forgetful. I have just remembered:

He was blessed with a "PhD" as a result of "salvation". The PhD is part of the "total package of blessings" that is the inheritance of every "christian" and remember he was bless[b]ed[/b] (past tense) with this PhD ever before he even needed to register for secondary school let alone university!

In fact, every member of Chris Embassy really should be going around parading "PhD" after their names since they are already blessed (past tense) with it as part of their "total package of blessings"; it is their "inheritance"; it is their "birthright"! Meanwhile, remember also that they do not need to obey God (e.g. work hard) to enjoy all these past tense blessings because "nowhere in the New Testament are they told to obey God!"

For reference, see https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-704762.0.html

@nuella2

I see what you are saying but I have this question:

According to the Bible, is a Christian told or required to obey God?

^^^ Don't mind me! I forgot that you can obtain a "PhD" by naming and claiming, blabbing and grabbing it! In fact all you need to do is to call things that are not as though they were!

The good thing is that many people, going by the responses, have seen through Joagbaje's attempts to weasel his way through  ---- or at least through the confusion of the doctrine of Chris Embassy in particular (and, for me, Word of Faith/Prosperity "Gospel" in general).

Joagbaje, let us see if you are not trying to weasel your way through, so try and answer these questions:


1. Is long life one of the blessings that does not require obedience to God?
2. Is "prosperity" one of the blessings that does not require obedience to God?

Again, once we are talking about "tithes/tithing" then every blessing of God is connected to obedience. 

Joagbaje:
. . . .

Freely, yes, but it {addendum: i.e. tithing} carry obedience. Why do you pray?  [b]Every blessing in God is connected to obedience[/b]. If heallth is a free gift in christ and you live in sin, you will fall sick or even die. There is a law of sowing and reaping.

2 Corinthians 9:6
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

A demonstration of our friends' self-contradiction --- especially when they are seeking to brainwash people about "tithes":

Joagbaje:
. . . Why will I not tithe?. The consequences of not tithing is absence of grace that tithing carries. Every obedience to the word carries a blessing. If you obey some , you have benefit of it's grace, if you don't , you loose the benefit it contains.  Tithing is also a primary way by which the work of the ministry is supported.  It is came through the revelation of God to men of faith before the law came. God officially made it compulsory through the law. Some say I give offering but not tithe, sorry, they go together to support ministers and work of ministry.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
     
Malachi 3:8
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. . . .

Hmmmm, so no Chris Embassy member is able to prove that Oyakhilome's "PhD" is not fake or bought?

We can post the evidence, but first of all do you believe the statement is wrong?

Ask yourself in all honesty: supposing it was said by Enigma or Nuclearboy, would you agree with it?

Oh, so you acknowledge at last that you have been a fool with your daft and even sometimes idiotic arguments!

Praise be! Then, soon your eyes will start to open and by God's grace you will be freed eventually from your Oyakhilome bondage.

And the Church (i.e. the Christians) said ------ Aaaaaamen through Jesus Christ

PS I have excluded the "Gods" from the Amen because they of course do not pray to or through Jesus Christ.

^^^ So you have no more "real" arguments and are now left with rants!

^^^ So where is long life? Explain why some Gods die young!

O ma ga oh!

EDIT Meanwihile you have misused the 2 Peter that you jumped to again: again, try and read it like this:

life AND godliness

These things really are very simple for us Christians no matter that they are complicated for "Gods"!

Anyway, let the thread move on for the sake of other people. Let us start with the misinterpretation of 1 Peter 1:14 by Oyakhilome and his acolytes.

That verse is actually instructing Christians (I agree that the "Gods" are not included in this) to be obedient! In other words, the passage is saying the very opposite of what Oyakhilome and his acolytes are trying to use it to say. In essence, what the passage is saying is this: "be like obedient children . .  "

I will deliberately start with NLT for this purpose:

NLT

So you must live as God's obedient children. Don't slip back into your old ways of living to satisfy your own desires. You didn't know any better then.

NIV

As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.

ASV

as children of obedience, not fashioning yourselves according to your former lusts in [the time of] your ignorance:

KJV

As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance

In any event Christians (of course not the "Gods" can get Peter's direction to be obedient in further context by reading and understanding what he said earlier in the very same chapter ----- that Christians (not the "Gods" are elect unto obedience!

1 Peter 1:2 KJV

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

So yes, while the "Gods" do not have to obey God, the case is different for Christians ---- Christians cannot be true Christians unless they obey and remain in the habit of obeying or at least trying to obey God.

^^^ OK, I will agree with you take your word for it that you "Gods" are not told and are not required to obey God.

As for us Christians we are told and we are required to obey God as exemplified in these passages previously quoted.


John 14:15

If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 15:10

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

1 John 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=704762.msg8661211#msg8661211 date=1309947620]I will leave the 'Total package' of blessings from Salvation explanation at the level I have broken it down to. I know what you want, there is a pre-figured mind set of an exclusion but that wasn't part of Gods wisdom. ALL IS ALL and nothing else. Whatever blessing you can think of concerning in born again is in the Total Package.[/quote]So, you really do not know what you are talking about when you speak of "total package of blessings". Let me open your eyes a little. You quoted from Ephesians 1 ---- but I put it to you that you really do not understand the passage at all. Here (I will use the KJV but if you please let me know your preferred version we can look at that), read it like this: Ephesians 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=704762.msg8661211#msg8661211 date=1309947620]If your long life = eternal life = Life of the Spirit, then surely it is in the Total package! Remember bible said "The gift of God which is eternal life; God's very essence, his righteousness, his very nature is given to us christians" -emphasis mine-

I may not know why some christians die at 1year, 20, 30, 50 years of age. Like Jesus said, the soverign will is of God.[/quote]If long life is one of the blessings in the "total package", you really should know why some of these "Gods" die young ----- unless of course as I said before you don't really know what you are talking about with this "total package" thing!


I think I won't bother with the rest of your post; in any event it may be that it was meant for these "Gods" rather than for Christians. Gods may not have to obey God; Christians however know that they have to obey God, submit to the teachings of the Holy Spirit, grow in holiness and maturity, be filled (continually) with the Spirit and that these will lead to them exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit. I am happy to concede that these things may be beneath the "Gods" that you are talking about who do not need to obey God.

Also, granted you want to confirm the contexts of Joagbaje's statements, you at least have the context of this statement by Oyakhilome:

Nowhere in the New Testament are we told to “obey” God or “obey” the Law. Rather, we are called His obedient children:

Do you agree with Oyakhilome that we are not told (or required?) to obey God?

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=704762.msg8660772#msg8660772 date=1309943684]I already answered your question on the total package of blessings. I said ALL of the blessings you can think off from the bible concerning the new creature.Maybe my expression seems to make you think 'm saying there is an exclusive list. NOPE, grasp this, understand what it means when the bible says" WE ARE BLESSED BEYOND MEASURE?"[/quote]I am sorry, this is rather vague and suggests that you do not seem to be clear on what you mean by "total package"!

Let us take "long life" --- is it one of the blessings? If so, why do some of your "Gods" (I'm not even talking of us ordinary Christians) die at 20, some at 30, some at 50, some at 60, some at 70, some at 80, some at 90, some at 100 etc?

Or did some of these "Gods" fail at "training" their spirits?

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=704762.msg8660535#msg8660535 date=1309941340]. . .
I think my explanation above answers the rest of your questions. . . .[/quote]Just to clarify; NO, I'm afraid it does not! In particular you have not addressed these questions:

1. Please explain what you mean by "total package of blessings" and list the blessings included for us.
2, Do you agree with Joagbaje that to receive/enjoy the blessing of long life is conditional on honouring your father and mother?
3. Do you agree with Joagbaje that to receive/enjoy the blessing of "prosperity" is conditional on "paying tithes", "sowing into pastor's life", giving to pastor etc?

I still have a number of other questions of course - some outstanding from my earlier posts.

I am willing to explain a lot of things to you including that a Christian is indeed blessed (which I have actually mentioned before). I am also willing to address some of your questions but I say you have not earned the right to answers fom me because you have not addressed some of my own questions too. OK, for now, I'll confine them to just three.

1. Please explain what you mean by "total package of blessings" and list the blessings included for us.
2, Do you agree with Joagbaje that to receive/enjoy the blessing of long life is conditional on honouring your father and mother?
3. Do you agree with Joagbaje that to receive/enjoy the blessing of "prosperity" is conditional on "paying tithes", "sowing into pastor's life", giving to pastor etc?

^^^^ Look, you are wasting your time and heading towards confusing yourself further. If you have any wisdom, you will go and sit down, take plenty of time to study and reflect on these two things that you've said. (Maybe take twelve months to study them carefully!)

1. Jesus' Father is/was the Holy Spirit
2. Jesus was "trained" (or taught?) by the Holy Spirit

Are you illiterate or just duplicitous or perhaps just daft?

Am I the one who said it or "Pastor" Chris Oyakhilome?

Is a whole "Pastor" Chris Oyakhilome wrong to say you do not have to obey God to receive his blessings?

If you have issues with what Oyakhilome said, then take it up with him and his followers!

^^^ Have you not heard the good news? According to Chris Oyakhilome, you do not have to obey God in order to receive God's blessings! 

Joagbaje:
. . .“Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.”

We’ve been made partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the Kingdom of light. We’re sharers and participators in the blessings and benefits of the Kingdom-life reserved for all God’s children. This happened when you were born again; you were born with an inheritance. You don’t have to try to “obey” the law for God to bless you; you were born blessed (Ephesians 1:3).

Also, you’re the fruit of Christ’s obedience:

“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous” (Romans 5:18-19).

Can you now see why you don’t have to try to obey God first for Him to bless you? Someone obeyed God on your behalf, and His Name is Jesus. Through His obedience, God’s gift, His blessing of righteousness, was bequeathed to you.

Nowhere in the New Testament are we told to “obey” God or “obey” the Law. Rather, we are called His obedient children:

“As obedient children, not fashioned yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance” (1 Peter 1:14). We’re described in scriptures as having obeyed God’s Word of truth from the heart (Romans 6:17).

So our blessings and inheritance in Christ aren’t preconditioned on obedience; rather, they are our birthright![/color]

-pastor chris

Basito:
. . . 1.Recreating your world. By Chris Oyakhilome Phd. . . .

Please tell us: (a) where he got his "PhD" from, (b) when, and (c) in what field?

Afterall if the "PhD" is fake, it cannot be right to recommend that the material of such a person should be "integrated into the education system".

First, prove to us that his "PhD" is not fake (or bought); then establish his credential by confirming the institution he got the PhD from and his subject (even preferably his thesis title)! Also, though this may be too far for you, it would be helpful if you could identify the academic who supervised Oyakhilome's "PhD" thesis!

Actually, there is a rather grave matter which should be highlighted and which shows why people like Oyakhilome are untrustworthy and that Joagbaje and co really ought to be ashamed of him.

Oyakhilome says:

Joagbaje:
Nowhere in the New Testament are we told to “obey” God or “obey” the Law. Rather, we are called His obedient children:

 -pastor chris

Actually, anukulapo provided some scriptures to counter this nonsense above but I think it is good to quote them for sake of clarity.

John 14:15

If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 15:10

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

1 John 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome

Meanwhile, I half-expect Joagbaje to slink away quietly again --- though he can be expected to resume "preaching" this nonsense some other time!

^^^ And we have been "misusing" your user name oh! Maybe in your honour we'll have to think of an alternative for "kalo-kalo gospel"!  Was it zikky who started it? Oya, fresh and original idea needed.

Seriously, though, it should not be that difficult for honest seekers reading the Bible objectively (or "in spirit and truth" to appreciate the correctness of what you have posted --- and to truly understand the gospel of Christ. I suppose some find it difficult to accept if they understand it as not being about prosperity. When Jesus said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for the rich to enter into the kingdom of God even his disciples were astonished. Also, later on when he gave them his "hard teachings" some of his followers left (just like today's prosperitians cannot accept the hard things in the gospel) --- but then this is where true disciples come into their own. When some of the followers were leaving, Jesus asked if the twelve wanted to leave too. Then, in John 6:68

Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Indeed while prosperitians are turning from the teachings of Jesus (because some of them are "hard" and following the gospel of mammon, true disciples are still saying "Lord, to whom shall we go"?

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=704762.msg8655261#msg8655261 date=1309877433]@Enigma,
Was Jesus not God? Did He undergo any training by the Father? Did Jesus not say that the things He said and Did was taught him by His Father,(the Holy Ghost)?[/quote]Jesus' Father was the Holy Ghost?   This one is new on me oh! Perhaps you didn't express yourself well! Do you want to restate this so we understand you clearly?

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=704762.msg8655261#msg8655261 date=1309877433]So also, when you are born again,the Holy Ghost helps you to train your spirit in the things of God. Remember the biblical admonision?
"I commend you to God and to the WORD OF HIS GRACE which is able to BUILD you up into your INHERITANCE"[/quote]Indeed the Holy Spirit does teach teach the Christian. The Christian does have to obey God and this obedience brings certain blessings to the Christian.

However, I do not think you were talking about the Christian because the "person" you are talking about does not have to obey God to receive any blessing; please correct me if I've misrepresented you. Also, what you wrote was that "God does not have to obey God to bless God." Again, here my understanding is that this "new creation" person you are talking about (as opposed to a Christian) is the "God who does not have to obey God to bless God". But then you then said this new creation/God has to "train" his spirit! So this God who does not have to obey God to bless God needs to "train" his spirit? Is he really still God then?

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=704762.msg8655261#msg8655261 date=1309877433]Being born again is a first which brings the total package of blessings, but you'ved got to train spirit to KNOW about and HOW to walk in these blessings![/quote]Please explain this "total package of blessings" thing! If you could, please list all the types of blessing included in this "total package"!

Would the blessings included within the "total package" take in (a) long life, which Joagbaje tells us is not unconditional but indeed is conditional on honouring your father and mother; or (b) "prosperity" which also Joagbaje tells us is not unconditional but is conditional upon giving to the pastor or sowing into the pastor's life?

Again, also, I am still baffled that this new creation/God still has to "train his spirit" in the first place and, secondly, to do this in order to walk in blessings that are supposed to be unconditional!

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=704762.msg8655261#msg8655261 date=1309877433]Your seemingly timidity in stepping rightly into that which is already yours by reason of God's mercy and grace purposed in christ Jesus is evident in your write up.[/quote]Well, I am only a Christian who needs to obey God as Christ taught and as the apostles taught and as the Bible teaches. I am not the "God" that you are talking about who does not need to obey God to bless God!

Joagbaje:
To receive a prophet in that context is giving or welfare. Everything has it's place. It's like a man says. "I won't pray to God , but I will read bible only"   He will surely get the benefit of studying but he will lose the Benefit of payer. But why should we be looking for how to escape simple scriptural teachings?.

the point is simple . It's a law of sowing and reaping, maybe that's what your guy who saaid " if you give a junior pastor you have 20% if you give to G.O . You have 100%" I don't know if it's just a joke. But if it really happened I guess it is based on that scripture . Trying to say there is a reward for giving to fellow christian ,there is higher reward for giving to Mr M.O.G.

Well you were on that thread! https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-416595.0.html

^^^
@Joagbaje again

My apology if my impression in the above post is wrong (though I wonder why you deleted the post) as I've found an example of what I was looking for.


Anyway, basically from what you've written elsewhere, God's blessing of long life is not included in this "unconditional blessing" that you are talking about!

Joagbaje:
. . .
every act of obedience has it's blessing. For example if you want to live long. It's not by praying for long life. There is a principle to it. "honour your father and mother"

In addition, as I mentioned in my post you have also said giving to pastor etc is what causes a person to prosper ----- so therefore "prosperity" is not really included in this "unconditional blessing" because to get "prosperity" you have to give to a pastor or "sow into a pastor's life"!

Joagbaje:
. . . Giving to a minister doesn't have to be because of lack. It's because of the anointing upon him . That's what cause men to prosper. We can see the principle in the old testament.

Joagbaje:
. . . . Sowing of seeds to a pastor is very important. It has it's place . And it doesn't have to be due to lack on his part. His anointing will cause you to prosper. There are several givings in the bible. Theo one to the mimisternis only one of them.

Joagbaje:
. . . . Giving to a Minster has it's own blessing. You become a partaker of his grace and reward.

Joagbaje:
. . . If the Word for any reason hasn't produced result for an individual, something must be missing. If I put the word to work and I didn't see the result , I won't blame God , I will check myself rather. There are times we need to sow consistently to have a harvest.
Galatians 6:9
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap if we faint not.

We don't just do something once And say "lord where is the harvest"?.

@Joagbaje

I am under the impression that this link https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-698914.64.html#msg8642027 is one of the (more recent) places where you said that to receive the blessing of long life is conditional on honouring one's father and mother. Please correct me if I'm wrong with my impression.

If my impression is right in the first place please tell me that you did not deviously erase that post after my first post on this thread showing its contradiction with this "unconditional blessing" thing!