₦airaland Forum

His whole ethos like that of his boss is geared towards brainwashing his victims. I believe that he uses this forum to send subliminal messages, additional to what he does "live" in "church", to his sheeple: e.g. "I am a pastor, as I function in that office, I am God's anointed."

And of course there are the threats in other posts: touch not the anointed; remember Korah, Aaron, Miriam etc

They get away with the brainwashing because of the number of people not particularly given to critical thinking ---- even among "educated" people like "graduates" etc.

PSA, the Steve Chalke connection etc ref https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-691430.32.html#msg8562849

http://www.eauk.org/theology/key_papers/Atonement/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=1558

http://www.eauk.org/theology/key_papers/Atonement/

Joagbaje:
The word anointed has multiple use. It referes to an office ,it also refers to an empowerment .

If a man functions in an office . He is Gods  anointed by the virtue of that office. If a man receives ability ,empowerment ,a grace , it is also call an anointing. Jesus was the anointed (chosen one) that's an office . Even when he hadn't received an empowerment , he was the elect, anointed, but this anointing meant to be the chosen one. Later in life at the age of 30, he received an empowerment when he received the holyghost , the anointing came on him. So if someone functions in an office as a pastor for example , he is Gods anointed, this is by the virtue of the office he occupies.

I'm sure my answer above clears the second question.

It's about the office,not about the person .those who function in leadership are anointed by the virtue of that office.

Like:

"Reverend" King
"Archbishop" Gilbert Deya
Robert Tilton
Peter Popoff
Todd Bentley
"Reverend" Douglas Goodman
"Bishop" Earl Paulk
"Pastor" Albert Odulele
"Bishop" Eddie Long

Why does this Joagbaje fellow insist on talking through his backside? Once any fool calls himself "pastor" (etc) and draws a crowd unto himself (like Oyakhilome) we must accept that they are anointed of God? Pull another one!

Reference for putting the above post by nuclearboy in context: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-697706.0.html#msg8578678

Joagbaje:
The word anointed has multiple use. It referes to an office ,it also refers to an empowerment .

If a man functions in an office . He is Gods anointed by the virtue of that office. If a man receives ability ,empowerment ,a grace , it is also call an anointing. Jesus was the anointed (chosen one) that's an office . Even when he hadn't received an empowerment , he was the elect, anointed, but this anointing meant to be the chosen one. Later in life at the age of 30, he received an empowerment when he received the holyghost , the anointing came on him. So if someone functions in an office as a pastor for example , he is Gods anointed, this is by the virtue of the office he occupies.

I'm sure my answer above clears the second question.

It's about the office,not about the person .those who function in leadership are anointed by the virtue of that office.

Erm yommyuk, careful and softly softly

Obasanjo, Bush jr, Tony Blair?

By the way, on small churches, the Bible itself says not to denigrate little beginnings. I also referred earlier to Romans 16

5 Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

Consider also places like China and some Islamic countries where the Church necessarily has to be underground and the importance (as well as power, I daresay) of house churches.

In Yoruba we say: alailojuti, awodi j'ẹun epe sanra, wọn n'pe l'ole o tun n'gbọmọ ẹran jo.

Summary: as he is described so he proves himself to be shamelessly.

^^^ Brain-washing nonsense!

^^^ U dey mind am? Na Kenneth Copeland and Creflo Dollar they teach them the nonsense.

OK: our man has also taught that those not paying "tithes" are robbing God.

Task one: give the CEC people an opportunity to deny that Oyakhilome has taught this; then we can move on to task two - to check whether it is biblically accurate or not.

So CEC people: has or has not Oyaks said that those not paying tithes are robbing God?

OK let us deal with this "in my name" business.

First of all, I have made clear repeatedly that Christians have no problem to pray in Jesus' name, through Jesus' name, through Jesus or to Jesus.

However, Jesus Christ Himself warned us about some people who would use his name:

1, Some of them will claim to prophesy, cast out demons, do miracles etc "in your name" i.e "in Jesus' name" ---- yet it will turn out that they were false teachers and anti-Christs all along.  Matthew 7

. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

2. Jesus also warned us that some of them would come and say "I am Christ"  ----- exactly what the people we are dealing with are saying today. Matthew 24

4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,a’ and will deceive many.

So Christians who are mindful of the words of Jesus Himself need to beware. The fact that someone --- whether "pastor chris" or some other G.O. etc --- uses "in Jesus name" or teaches to pray, cast out demons etc "in Jesus' name" is not enough to accept that they are working in and with the Spirit of God.

Someone working in the Spirit of God will not teach people not to pray to or through Christ. The likelihood is that it is one of those persons doing all these casting out, prophesying etc "in your name" but whom probably Jesus would tell "I never knew you".

In the next post let us move to a different teaching and see what excuse we get.

^^^ Or maybe you have not taken the whole counsel of God and have submitted yourself to anti-Christ teaching.

Now you have said Stephen was wrong to pray to Christ!

Alright what about these other instances, was the person also wrong to pray through Christ:


Hebrews 13

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Romans 16:27

To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Phillipians 4:7

And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

If those instances were also wrong that means you and your anti-Christ boss know more than Stephen and more than the apostle Pauil. That also means we should modify the book of Acts with a note that Stephen's prayer was wrong; we should also modify the various epistles where Christians prayed through Christ.

PS Your "his ability in us" twist does not work with those prayers in the epistles, so please try something else.

Inesqor

I think perhaps now we shouldn't do another thread calling Joagbaje out for discussion. That kind of thread is different from one just listing his stuff plus links to where to find them.

I think calling him out just fuels his sense of self importance; I would rather fight his poison whereever I see it or whereever I deem it fit to bring it up.

I'll say the first thing to bear in mind is that a "pastor" in the sense in which Joagbaje is using it and even in the sense in which it is widely known is not really an essential part of Christianity. The manipulators should go and ask the Ethiopean eunuch who was his "pastor".

The second thing is that the offices of apostle, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers are for the entire, universal or catholic Church. It doesn't mean that each gathering, each ekklesia had a prophet, apostle, evangelist or pastor or even teacher.

Consider Romans 16

5 Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.

Will that "church" have necessarily had a "pastor", prophet or apostle --- or, as an office, an "evangelist"?.


The "apostles" were the apostles identified in the Bible as the foundation people for the spreading of the gospel. The apostles were given for the universal church. (All those arrogant nonces today calling themselves apostles are just deceiving themselves)

As far as "evangelists" are concerned, all are charged with the commission of preaching the gospel though unquestionably some, like Paul, are charged with that role in a particular manner. As far as "prophets" are concerned, God can put his spirit on anyone to prophesy; he said I will pour out my spirit and your sons will prophesy; even before that he made an a.s.s prophesy (come to think of it many of today's "prophets" are no better than a.sses anyway); so even in a gathering of two or three, God could use one or even all to prophesy.

As far as pastors and teachers are concerned, the biblical pattern anyway is that you had a collection of elders ---- remember that biblically, "pastor" = "elder" and also = "bishop" ------ and having such a collection in joint leadership helps to prevent abuse. Even in the council at Jerusalem it was clear that the leadership was collective albeit James acted as spokesman on that occasion. Compare these days how m-industries are associated with one particular head honcho! How many of us can name the number two to any of Adeboye, Oyedepo, Oyakhilome, Joshua or any of these other charlatans!

^^^^I have a by far more important agenda at the moment; maybe another day and another thread I will have time for your enquiries.

mabell:
@Enigma
I think you are the one actually misunderstanding Pst Chris
Rather than go about throwing tantrums, you should be humble enough to study the scriptures
Than to come up with wrong conclusions

Why are you guys so full of deceit? Why does the spirit of deceit pervade Chris Embassy (CEC)?

Did Oyakhilome not say it is wrong to pray to Christ?

Did Oyakhilome not say it is wrong to pray through Christ?

Try and lie and deceive your way out of those?

^^^^ Christians do not have a problem to pray:

1. in Jesus' name
2. through the name of Jesus
3. through Jesus
4. to Jesus


Some teachers of anti-Christ messages are the ones saying Christians should not pray to or through Christ.

Hey, here is what opaks Oyaks said despite your poor attempt (2nd time now) to help him to twist it.

As Christians, we don’t need an intermediary between us and the Father. Hence we don’t pray to the Father through Jesus, but in the Name of Jesus. To pray through Jesus is to make Him a medium or intermediary to the Father, and that’s wrong. But to pray in the Name of Jesus means your standing in the place of Jesus; you’ve become His voice!

All through the Scriptures, there’s no place where the Christian is asked to pray to Jesus or through Jesus. Neither do you ask the Father to grant your request for “Jesus’ sake,” for God wouldn’t answer your prayers for Jesus’ sake. He loves you as much as He loves Jesus. So when you pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus, it’s as though Jesus Himself were praying, because you stand in His stead.

Compare the anti-Christ rubbish to the prayer from Hebrews 13 above; compare it also to:

Romans 16:27

To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Phillipians 4:7

And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

and Stephen praying to Christ

Acts 7

59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.

So when opaks Oyaks preaches a message so contrary to the Bible, has he not defined himself as a false teacher and possibly an anti-Christ?

Joagbaje:
The bible teaches to pray in the name of Jesus and not through his name  .

First I point out the chicanery of just saying "through his name" when you and I know that opaks Oyaks said people should not pray TO or THROUGH Jesus ---- not just "through his name".

Anyway, tell all that to the author of Hebrews (I think you once said that the author was your "friend" Paul); anyway, he prayed through Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 13

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Hey Joagbaje, go and show this from the OP to Oyakhilome; ask him to repent! If you don't have access to him, send it by email.  

yommyuk:
1 John 4:1 warns us
Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world.

Not one or a few, but “MANY”. To apply the above to this age we are living, I will say  “For there are so many false men of God in the world”.  They give false hope. They preach a diluted gospel which is leading the flock astray. Their preaching doesn’t come from the heart but from the mouth. To them the gospel is about money and worldly gains. I say “WOE UNTO THEM” . . .

Ah, it is paining you that by his own teachings Oyakhilome is a false teacher, false prophet and almost certainly an anti-Christ?

Did Oyakhilome not teach that people should not pray to or through Christ? How can a person (other than a deceiver/anti-Christ) call himself a Christian and say don't pray to or through Christ?

^^^^ He is pathetically and notoriously devious with his use of Bible versions/translations.

@OP

The false pophets and anti-Christs in the world today teach many things that make it necessary to conclude that whatever "spirit" they have does not come from God.

They teach (just to take a few examples):

1. People should not pray to or through Jesus Christ
2. People are now Christ! In fact they declare baldly --- "I am Christ"
3. People should not pray the Lord's prayer, it is not for "mature Christians"
4. Jesus Christ was just a man
5. Jesus Christ was "born again"
6. Jesus Christ went to "hell" (some say not hell "fire" because I know their dissembling) and he was there tortured by Satan and demons
7. People who don't pay "tithes" are robbing God

Wherever they teach any of these things you will probably not need to look far to see a false prophet or maybe even an anti-Christ.

Ah, another thought: the time when I still be rascal dey play around inside Unilag grounds e get some baba ẹlẹmu (palm wine tappers) dem wen bin dey come get mint fresh palmy from the trees for yonder; the thing na hẹlẹle (hic). I don't know whether that one too no qualify as new (alcoholic) wine for broda Image123?

Meanwhile if believers are kings and priests why do they need to pay tithes (as the same Image123 argues) instead of collecting it?

Let me point you guys to one of the related doctrines of "Christians own all the wealth".

That one is called the "End Time Wealth Transfer": it takes a Bible verse and says "the wealth of the wicked is stored up (or laid up?) for the righteous"

Believe me when I tell you that many WoFers are truly waiting to inherit the wealth of non-Christians --- as part of this end time transfer of wealth from the "wicked" to the "righteous"!


EDIT it doesn't occur to them to ask whatever happened to "love thy neighbour".

JeSoul:
^In-law, got it. Sorry just put your name there first in front of 'and others' randomly.

Oyaa . . . Tonye and others 

Nne, you know I was going to make a post asking abi whether you mixed my posts up with that of someone else (and "heaven forfend" ---- then I thought better of it and deleted it before hitting the click button.   

PS my post about Billy Graham that I referred to was actually made in late 2005 (I just checked)

Re Steve Chalke, he used to be more frequent on regular UK TV (including popular/populist programmes like Songs of Praise) years ago and is well known in UK evangelical circles.

EDIT ETA Cross reference re Steve Chalke etc https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-696444.0.html#msg8587816

JeSoul:
I've been following the thread and will continue. But quick comment . . .
Am I missing something, or does it appear the:

"Emerging Church" as a concept, new approach gaining traction around the globe in independent minds [/i]Pastor_LIO (I think) is talking about
   is different from the

[i]"Emerging Church" as an already existing establishment/group complete with leaders that Enigma and others are talking about?

Erm no, Jesoul! The only two posts I've made have been directed at the emerging/emergent church and in both contexts you identify --- I have deliberately not focused on the emergent village of which I'm aware.

Even if this "new approach" is classified as a "conversation", many of the strands of the conversation are not new at all --- and they are issues which people have been wrestling with for sometime. I notice for example a video posted of Billy Graham saying some none Christians are part of the "body of Christ" (though misrepresented by some as him saying "Jesus is not the only way"; well, in fact, I first posted that very message here on nairaland way back circa 2006 or so. Is Billy Graham part of the (new or old?) "conversation" or part of the movement?

If the focus is on "conversation" no problem, the conversation has always been there and maybe is now more prominent. However, aside the "conversation", I think it is undeniable that there is an emerging church "movement" (assuming we even separate it from "emergent" and there are certain things they emphasize which make them a movement. Heck, many of their apologists identify themselves as a movement.

Image123:
Enigma, i'll tell you what context shows. Context shows that 'o tun gege seyin'.

Look at this guy o! You dis funny man, you give the impression of someone who doesn't understand Yoruba!

Image123:
Enigma, i'll tell you what context shows. Context shows that 'o tun gege seyin'.
But on a more serious note, can we say that the corinthian believers had homes to eat and be drunk in?

Of course they had homes to eat and be drunk in. Picture the following:

There are 50 members in a 'fellowship'. They decide to have a 'love feast' where everyone will bring their own food and drinks (to eat/drink by themselves and share with others). On the day, the first 10 people to arrive at the venue did not wait for the others before eating and drinking. By the time the house was full, those first ten had already eaten to the full whilst six out of them were already drunk out of the wine that they brought to the feast.

Did those ten (including the drunk six) not have homes to eat and drink in?

As a demonstration of the fallacy of the semantic exercise, consider the following Yoruba word/sentence:

1 O ti yo  = S/he is full (of food; i.e. e don chop belle full)

2 O ti yo = S/he is drunk (i.e. e don drink alcohol tey e don shayo)

Context shows that the word in 1Cor 11 meant drunk (of alcoholic wine which is why various Bible versions translate it so.

;d ;d

aletheia:
. . .nothing new from the OP. Another spin on "revelation". I suppose this thread will probably die a quick and painless death, since Jo is going to shy away from further posting.

My goodness! Has this prophecy already come true so quickly?



(The thread was essentially dead though I suppose this post is now keeping it on life support!)