₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje:
^^
I will work on my English comprehension. But is the bible wrong. . . .

Is there any place in the bible where the church ever prayed through Jesus?

When your English has improved, go back and read the prayers of Christians in the New Testament ---- then try to answer your own question.

One of them quoted Ephesians 3:12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Yet they say you should not go to God through Jesus as though "through faith in Jesus" is not the same as "through him".

Their problem is that they need to do gyrations because of their loyalty to Oyaks instead of admitting that the fellow was talking through his ass.

Joagbaje:
I think you should do a study on the principles of substitution. . . .

Thank you for your kind suggestion. I too would like to make my own suggestion to you: I think you should work hard on seriously improving your English comprehension; that would help you to see through the deceit of an anti-Christ message like that in the opening post.

Good luck as you try to improve as recommended.

I mean!!! Again, don't mind them. Funny they don't talk about standing in stead of Jesus when it comes to helping people.

Funny also, they can say people should go to the father directly but when it comes to "tithes" they don't tell the people to go to God direct; that one can only get to God through the "pastors"!

:rolleyes:

Don't mind them jare, free123.

They are looking for ways to twist round the obvious - that the message is idiotic and anti-Christ because, at the end of the day, what the message boils down to is: "you do not need Jesus Christ"! In other words, "you do not need Jesus Christ because you are now equal to him as long as you mention his name".

A sensible person would take time to consider the following carefully and compare it to what the dumbass author of the piece wrote.

1. "Father hear my prayer, in the name of Jesus Christ"

2. "Father hear my prayer, through Jesus Christ"

3. "Father hear my prayer, because of Jesus Christ"

4. "Father hear my prayer, for the sake of Jesus Christ"

^^^ Precisely, nuke!


@yommyik

yommyuk:

All through the Scriptures, there’s no place where the Christian is asked to pray to Jesus or through Jesus. [s]Neither do you ask the Father to grant your request for “Jesus’ sake,” for God wouldn’t answer your prayers for Jesus’ sake.[/s] He loves you as much as He loves Jesus. So when you pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus, it’s as though Jesus Himself were praying, because you stand in His stead.

Edited

Oh ho, I see you disagree with Oyakhilome regarding the above!  {I am still waiting for newmi's response on the same question}

OK then question 2 for you.

Do you agree that Jesus is not a medium or intermediary to the Father as quoted below from the piece in the opening post?

To pray through Jesus is to make Him a medium or intermediary to the Father, and that’s wrong.

@Joagbaje and co

If you can ask anything as long as it is "in Jesus' name" and it will be granted, why don't you people or opaks Oyaks himself ask for "supernatural" security, so that he does not need earthly security through bouncers, mai-guards and "armour bearers"? Or is that not included in your own "anything" or you people cannot approach the Father directly for that?

Nice piece on the hymn including scripture references http://cbumgardner./2008/05/08/before-the-throne-of-god-above-charitie-bancroft/

One of the more outstanding hymn texts with which I am familiar is “Before the Throne of God Above.” The author, Charitie Lees Smith, was born in 1841 in the vicinity of Dublin, Ireland. She was the daughter of a minister of the Church of Ireland. Not much is known about her life, but it appears that she was widowed twice: although she married Arthur Bancroft in 1869, she died under the name Charitie de Cheney in California in 1923. Charitie published her poetry in leaflet form as early as 1860, and a number of her collected works were eventually published as Within the Veil in 1867. “Before the Throne” was written in 1863 under the title “The Advocate.”

Before the throne of God above
I have a strong and perfect plea. (Heb 4:15-16)
A great High Priest whose Name is Love (Heb 4:14)
Who ever lives and pleads for me. (Heb 7:25)
My name is graven on His hands, (Isa 49:16)
My name is written on His heart.
I know that while in Heaven He stands
No tongue can bid me thence depart. (Rom 8:34)

When Satan tempts me to despair (Luke 22:31-32)
And tells me of the guilt within,
Upward I look and see Him there (Acts 7:55-56)
Who made an end of all my sin. (Col 2:13-14)
Because the sinless Savior died
My sinful soul is counted free.
For God the just is satisfied
To look on Him and pardon me. (Rom 3:24-26)

Behold Him there the risen Lamb, (Rev 5:6)
My perfect spotless righteousness, (1 Cor 1:30; 1 Peter 1:18-19)
The great unchangeable I AM, (Heb 13:8; John 8:58)
The King of glory and of grace,
One in Himself I cannot die.
My soul is purchased by His blood, (Acts 20:28)
My life is hid with Christ on high, (Col 3:3)
With Christ my Savior and my God! (Ti t 2:13)

“Before the Throne of God Above” draws heavily from Scripture for its pictures and language. It is a hymn which finds its theme in the perfect security which believers find in Christ, Who intercedes for them “before the throne of God above.” The following Scriptures find echoes in the song, whether Charitie is drawing conceptually from them or merely using their language. . . . . . . .

@ newmi

Since you ask for it, you can start with my question earlier in the thread; it is post no 8.

@nuke

You'd better ignore the latest ignoramus.

Anyway sha, something more worthwhile below:

Before the throne of God above
I have a strong, a perfect plea:
A great High Priest, whose name is Love,
Who ever lives and pleads for me.

My name is graven on his hands,
My name is written on his heart;
I know that while in heaven he stands
No tongue can bid me thence depart
No tongue can bid me thence depart.

When Satan tempts me to despair,
And tells me of the guilt within,
Upward I look, and see him there
Who made an end of all my sin.

Because a sinless Savior died,
My sinful soul is counted free;
For God, the Just, is satisfied
To look on Him and pardon me
To look on Him and pardon me

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Praise the One,
Risen Son of God!

Behold him there, the risen Lamb
My perfect, spotless righteousness,
The great unchangeable I am,
The King of glory and of grace!

One in himself, I cannot die
My soul is purchased by his blood
My life is hid with Christ on high,
With Christ, my Savior and my God
With Christ, my Savior and my God

ETA Youtube link (one of many for the song)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq4eObqVdX0&feature=fvst

Look at this parade of mumus - mumus united - including Joagbaje in one of his disguises rising to the defence of their spiritual vagabond master and his anti-Christ message.

Anyway, the author of the piece is still an i.diot and dumbass serving his master who is a liar and deceiver from the beginning.

^^^ Do you believe or agree with the quote below?

God wouldn’t answer your prayers for Jesus’ sake.

^^^ Whoever wrote the above is an i.diot  and a dumbass.

Can't resist this one for the road before I go to bed!

Joagbaje why do you do this? Why? OK see that passage in better light by doing a comparison

NKJV

who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,

NIV

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

NLT

While Jesus was here on earth, he offered prayers and pleadings, with a loud cry and tears, to the one who could rescue him from death. And God heard his prayers because of his deep reverence for God.

Look you should stick to fooling your flock and stop making a fool of yourself in public like this. Yee ma d'oju ti ra rẹ!


You think the Jesus who said the below will truly and really be afraid of men?

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

My people make I go sleep. At nuke. that last was quite funny despite the'frownies'.

^^^ Ha ha ha now you are tired of Greek - what with all your "nepios" "ginosko" "katallage" etc that you quote here?

OK let's stick to English: find one translation that says or suggests "he ran".

Now you are asking the point when you started it? Do you notice that I was not even part of the discussion until you started dragging Jesus' name in the mud as is customary with you? OK here are some points for you:

1. STOP dragging Jesus' name in the mud and worse with lies and Bible twisting and manipulation.
2. STOP comparing Jesus with MOGs --- the way you do it in particular is disgraceful and lacking integrity
3 Re 2 above, it is lacking integrity because you are trying to justify your empty and shameful boast that Oyaks and co are doing greater things than Jesus by lying against Jesus saying things like "he hid" or "he ran".
4 STOP treating and presenting Jesus, even in His time and ministry on earth, as just a man; if you don't understand the passage "he came in the flesh" ask for someone to explain it to you.
5 STOP belittling Jesus and placing Him at a level even lower than yourself and opaks Oyaks
6 In relation to the thread topic, no one is saying you and your MOGs should not have reaasonable security: the two major problems are (a) the hypocrisy of saying you have all these powers of miracles yet you need security (then lying about Jesus) to defend the insanity; (b) the cause and effect of the necessity for the security --- the MOG has become so exalted and full of himself or has been over exalted that his name and persona is more important than the message or even Christ.

Finally, did i say STOP telling lies against Jesus and STOP dragging His name in the mud? Maybe I didn't --- so STOP telling lies against Jesus and DTOP dragging His name in the mud!!!

What kind of escape?

What kind of escape is walked right through the crowd and went on his way?

Is that running or hiding?

BTW if the disciples were His "security" what were His "security" doing when all these happened?

And I see you have not addressed Strong's explanation of "he escaped" instead you want to insist on conjuring "he ran" --- something that it would seem you are conjuring from your backside!

Let me take a leaf from nuclearboy's last post. According to Strong the relevant Greek word for "he escaped" in John 10:39 is "exerchomai".

And below is Strong's explanation of the word. So please tell us how you arrive at your own interpretation "he ran"

1) to go or come forth of

a) with mention of the place out of which one goes, or the point from which he departs

1) of those who leave a place of their own accord

2) of those who are expelled or cast out

2) metaph.

a) to go out of an assembly, i.e. forsake it

b) to come forth from physically, arise from, to be born of

c) to go forth from one's power, escape from it in safety

d) to come forth (from privacy) into the world, before the public, (of those who by novelty of opinion attract attention)

e) of things

1) of reports, rumours, messages, precepts

2) to be made known, declared

3) to be spread, to be proclaimed

4) to come forth

a) emitted as from the heart or the mouth

b) to flow forth from the body

c) to emanate, issue

1) used of a sudden flash of lightning

2) used of a thing vanishing

3) used of a hope which has disappeared

@nuclearboy

I've just seen your post. Enigmalet is doing fine  thanks ---fast asleep now. I will check enigmatrax (it is always working only I go weeks before remembering to check it unless I get a prompt like this); I will check it and I'm sure I will like what I see. 

@Joagbaje

Alright let us start with the second i.e. John 8:59. First let me point out your duplicity with this: the first time you referred to that passage you quoted the following version

Joagbaje:
John 8:59
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

It was after we pointed out to you that the passage says he went through the midst of them, and thus "hid" did not mean he went into hiding, that you started looking for various Bible versions. (I can tell you now that there is plenty of manuscript evidence for "he went through the midst of them"

In any event, even if we go with your latest Bible version does it say "he ran"? Previously you said "he hid" whether under the table or under the pulpit or under the bed; now you switch to "he ran"!


Now to your second passage (and chosen Bible version) i.e. John 10:39: what it says is that "he escaped out of their hands." Where does it say "he ran."? Earlier we showed you in graphic form how Jesus "escaped" in similar circumstances --- from Luke 4

All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. 30 But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.

Now if you were honestly and truly trying to "rightly divide the word of truth" you would use the maxim "scripture interpretes scripture"; you would look at the person and nature of Jesus and the mighty works He did and use your sense rightly to conclude on how He would escape.

Instead, you would rather drag Jesus to a level lower than yourself and to accomplish this you would rather twist the scriptures. As I always say, that is the way with Chris Embassy and WoF doctrine.

Joagbaje:
I will do your bidding. After you have answered my questions which you have been dodging. Give me a scripture or the link to the facts that the disciples of Jesus carry sword as custom for fishermen.

You and I did not discuss the question of whether disciples carried knives swords etc for reasons of custom, mate; in any event whether they carried swords as custom or not, as people have told you and as even a Sunday school child will tell you a whole "pastor", Jesus called his disciples to be disciples and fishers of men not to be mai guard.

So do please post chapter and verse from the Bible where Jesus ran away to escape. If you are not able to post it, you will have to endure being called a liar.

Edit: cross post with Nuke

Just quote the chapter and verse so that everyone can see for themselves---- very simple requirement.

Joagbaje:
. . . I'm sure Jesus will lock his room door at night. We saw him ran to escape a mob. when he heard Herod was after him,He refused to walk in the Jewry. Was he not a healer and a dead raiser?  We don't walk in the spirit 24/7.  Why did Jesus run?

Kindly tell us the chapter and verse for the bolded in red, if you please.

And for Joagbaje: because of people/fraudsters/ok, false teachers like you the way of truth will be maligned even as we see.

2 Peter 2

. . . there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

OK even if not "amputated" what about "withered?

Mark 3:3,5 (and elsewhere)

And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth . . . he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other

And the paralytic?

Mark 2

Some men came, bringing to him a paralytic, carried by four of them. 4Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus and, after digging through it, lowered the mat the paralyzed man was lying on. 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Yep, I have been hinting for some time that Joagbaje and Azibalua are one and the same. I'm sure it will be proved one day.

;d ;d ;d

@Richvkunt

The ministry has more important needs than to be spending money on widows, orphans, beggars, deaf and dumb and what nots?

The ministry needs to buy a private jet or 6 so that they can spread the gospel.

The ministry needs to build the biggest auditorium in the world to showcase the glory of god.

The ministry needs to buy a fleet of luxurious cars so that the man of god can travel in convoy and thereby show the world that god is a god of prosperity.

The ministry needs to buy lots and lots of designer clothes for the man of god because if you preach prosperity, people must see the evidence of prosperity on the man of god himself; after all, Jesus laid the example with his own designer robe.

Also why should members of the church give directly to the poor (even though this is what Jesus said they should do); don't you know that the anointing into which you sow determines the size of your harvest?

And don't you know that today's men of god know better than Jesus, can do bigger miracles than Jesus and are in fact more anointed than Jesus?

Yeah, you are right; he hid under the table.

Look, stop dribbling yourself; also, your Bible twisting may work on your flock and similarly uninformed or misinformed people but not on Christians with their minds in the right place.

First, no one has said MOGs or even Christians should not take security precautions. What people have been going on about is your hypocrisy: if you are "god", and you can do miracles, and if you and Oyakhilome can do greater works than Jesus, then you should not need security. If you still need security, then you were lying when you called yourself "god" and say you can do miracles.

Most important you lie about Jesus and you drag Jesus down to a level lower than yourself --- saying He hid --- was it under the table or where? As for Paul, you forget that Paul is not "god"; in fact, Paul himself confirmed that he is not "god". Moreover Paul recognised that a miracle can only happen through him, when God Himself wants it to happen. Paul was different from you and your senior fraudsters who say miracle is common place in your hands. By now needing security and not able to rely on your common place miracles you people have shown yourselves to be liars and frauds.

That is the difference "my dear". 

After you have answered all the ones I have already put to you. 

Now who is running; don't worry I leave you and your spiritual vagabond master and senior fraudster to God; He sees you both for sure.

@Joagbaje

Your own problem is fraud, bible twisting and manipulation.

In recent times you have used both the "God's Word Translation" and "World English Bible" to support yourself, so here from the two --- or do you now disown them?

GWT

Then some of the Jews picked up stones to throw at Jesus. However, Jesus was concealed, and he left the temple courtyard.

WEB

Therefore they took up stones to throw at him, but Jesus was hidden, and went out of the temple, having gone through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Oya, translate those as "Jesus hid under the pulpit" or "He hid under a table".


I also asked you: if Oyakhilome can do greater works than Jesus why doesn't he too do as follows from Luke 4

All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. 30But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.