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Christianity EtcRe: Pastors And Body Guards. by Enigma(m): 3:49pm On Apr 24, 2011
You know you once said something: that if you meet Jo you would first slap him before shaking his hand.

Well, I just wish to be able to slap him and cast out the demons of fraud and Bible twisting from him.   angry

Going back to this issue, we see an indication of what happened in those instances elsewhere except it was post-resurrection and some would say that is different. In any event what happened in the post-resurrection incident is that God deliberately prevented the concerned people from recognising Jesus until later on (EDIT) when He Himself revealed Himself to them in breaking bread and also later when He "appeared from nowhere"!

Luke 24
13 Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14 They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. 15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
Christianity EtcRe: Risen Ascended Glorified! by Enigma(op): 3:12pm On Apr 24, 2011
The Day of Resurrection

Preferred Tune = Ellacombe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISm_ywHNMQY

The day of resurrection!
Earth, tell it out abroad;
the Passover of gladness,
the Passover of God.
From death to life eternal,
from earth unto the sky,
our Christ hath brought us over,
with hymns of victory.

Our hearts be pure from evil,
that we may see aright
the Lord in rays eternal
of resurrection light;
and listening to his accents,
may hear so calm and plain
his own "All hail!" and, hearing,
may raise the victor strain.

Now let the heavens be joyful!
Let earth her song begin!
The round world keep high triumph,
and all that is therein!
Let all things seen and unseen
their notes in gladness blend,
for Christ the Lord hath risen,
our joy that hath no end.
Christianity EtcRe: Pastors And Body Guards. by Enigma(m): 3:00pm On Apr 24, 2011
Another example:

Luke 4
All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him down the cliff. 30But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.
If your fraudulent "MOGs" can do this they will not need bodyguards.

Afterall, you have said Oyakhilome is doing greater works than Jesus. So he should do something superior not like heathens and even Christians who are not "gods" needing to use bodyguards -- or to use your fraudulent "spiritual language" ----- "armour bearers".
Christianity EtcRe: Ashimodollar - 24 Hour Miracle Seed by Enigma(m): 2:50pm On Apr 24, 2011
[quote author=Idi-Amin link=topic=652310.msg8193017#msg8193017 date=1303621469]what can I say, I have been there and will not condemn this goats people falling for this fraud. I attended his church for years and attend all the IGOC conferences before the good God opened my eyes in 2006. Please do not think these people are fools, of course they are. It is like a spell, and it takes the almighty to open your eyes.[/quote]You really should tell us more about your experiences at KICC and what made you to leave. Are you now agnostic or atheist?

Edit: well, maybe not atheist because you refer to "the good God"?
Christianity EtcRe: Pastors And Body Guards. by Enigma(m): 2:43pm On Apr 24, 2011
^^^Jesus did not "hide" --- your poor English (or maybe fraud?) is worrying you. What is lost on you is the fine distinction in the English language between (a) "he hid himself from them" i.e. more or less became invisible to them and (b) "he went into hiding" as in, hiding in some place like in hide and seek.

John 8:59

Webster
Then they took up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
KJV
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Christianity EtcRe: Risen Ascended Glorified! by Enigma(op): 2:11pm On Apr 24, 2011
Christ The Lord is Risen Today (abbreviated to remove stanzas same as above)

Preferred Tune = Llanfair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boauSrx9sbc

Christ, the Lord, is risen today, Alleluia!
Sons of men and angels say, Alleluia!
Raise your joys and triumphs high, Alleluia!
Sing, ye heavens, and earth, reply, Alleluia!

King of glory, Soul of bliss, Alleluia!
Everlasting life is this, Alleluia!
Thee to know, Thy power to prove, Alleluia!
Thus to sing and thus to love, Alleluia!

Hymns of praise then let us sing, Alleluia!
Unto Christ, our heavenly King, Alleluia!
Who endured the cross and grave, Alleluia!
Sinners to redeem and save. Alleluia!

But the pains that He endured, Alleluia!
Our salvation have procured, Alleluia!
Now above the sky He’s King, Alleluia!
Where the angels ever sing. Alleluia!

Jesus Christ is risen today, Alleluia!
Our triumphant holy day, Alleluia!
Who did once upon the cross, Alleluia!
Suffer to redeem our loss. Alleluia!
Christianity EtcRe: Risen Ascended Glorified! by Enigma(op): 1:05pm On Apr 24, 2011
Love's Redeeming Work is Done

Tune = Savannah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbYIMO1gRjs

Love's redeeming work is done,
fought the fight, the battle won.
Lo, our Sun's eclipse is o'er!
Lo, he sets in blood no more!

Vain the stone, the watch, the seal!
Christ has burst the gates of hell;
death in vain forbids him rise;
Christ has opened paradise.

Lives again our victorious King;
where, O death, is now thy sting?
Dying once, he all doth save;
where thy victory, O grave?

Soar we now where Christ has led,
following out exalted Head;
made like him, like him we rise,
ours the cross, the grave, the skies.

Hail the Lord of earth and heaven!
Praise to thee by both be given:
thee we greet triumphant now;
hail, the Resurrection thou!
Christianity EtcRe: Risen Ascended Glorified! by Enigma(op): 12:48pm On Apr 24, 2011
Lord Enthroned in Heavenly Splendour

Best Tune = St Helen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E5r9G80S9w

Nice commentary on the hymn here: http://ingridschlueter./2007/10/29/stand-up-for-this-one/
Christianity EtcRe: Risen Ascended Glorified! by Enigma(op): 12:46pm On Apr 24, 2011
Full text: Lord Enthroned in Heavenly Splendour

Lord, enthroned in heavenly splendour
First-begotten from the dead
Thou alone, our strong Defender
Liftest up Thy people's head
Alleluia! Alleluia!
Jesus, true and living Bread

Here our humblest homage pay we
Here in loving reverence bow
Here for faith's discernment pray we
Lest we fail to know Thee now
Alleluia! Alleluia!
Thou art here, we ask not how

Though the lowliest form doth veil Thee
As of old in Bethlehem
Here as there Thine angels hail Thee
Branch and Flower of Jesse's stem
Alleluia! Alleluia!
We in worship join with them

Paschal Lamb, Thine offering, finished
Once for all when Thou wast slain
In its fulness undiminished
Shall forever more remain
Alleluia! Alleluia!
Cleansing souls from every stain

Life-imparting, heavenly Manna
Stricken Rock with streaming side
Heaven and earth with loud hosanna
Worship Thee, the Lamb who died
Alleluia! Alleluia!
Risen, ascended, glorified!
Christianity EtcRe: Risen Ascended Glorified! by Enigma(op): 12:43pm On Apr 24, 2011
Life-imparting heavenly Manna,
stricken Rock with streaming side,
heaven and earth with loud hosanna
worship thee, the Lamb who died.
Alleluia! Alleluia! Alleluia!
Risen, ascended, glorified!
Christianity EtcRisen Ascended Glorified! by Enigma(op): 9:01am On Apr 23, 2011

Paschal Lamb, thine offering, finished
once for all when thou was slain,
in its fullness undiminished
shall for evermore remain.
Alleluia! Alleluia!
Cleansing souls from every stain
.
Christianity EtcRe: "It Doesn't Matter Who Wrote The Bible" by Enigma(m): 8:48am On Apr 23, 2011
nuclearboy:
Chei, DeepSight has suffered here.

Off-point, un-objective, biased, out of context, displaying dilly dally and silly something too.

And all because he fears the Jewish Carpenter might be true too  embarassed
Well, the posts showed the subtlety and sensitivity {where is Ralph Tresvant?} of a bulldozer being driven through a flower garden --- coming as they do did on Good Friday when Christians reflect on the sacrificial death of "the Jewish Carpenter"!
Christianity EtcRe: Pastors And Body Guards. by Enigma(m): 4:02pm On Apr 22, 2011
No, You were actually caught in fraud --- not just accused; remember Akhozem?

Fraudster kawai!
Christianity EtcRe: Pastors And Body Guards. by Enigma(m): 3:53pm On Apr 22, 2011
Another category of person not worth answering is ------ the fraudster, just as you have been conclusively proved to be.  wink
Christianity EtcRe: Pastors And Body Guards. by Enigma(m): 3:47pm On Apr 22, 2011
^^^ Answer not not a fool . . . .
Christianity EtcRe: Pastors And Body Guards. by Enigma(m): 3:35pm On Apr 22, 2011
EarsWide:
Mr Jo Agbaje

When I think you cannot go any lower - you surprise me.

Are you saying you think Jesus needed protection by the disciples ? (Jesus the son of God) ?? Why do you do this ? Dont you read the bible at all ?

Mathew 26:52 - 54

52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way


You claim to be a pastor but you come out with such nonsense.  You have such a poor understanding of the bible - it is a real shame that someone like you is not prevented from pastoring a church!
It is what they do in Chris Embassy and WoF circles generally: they drag Jesus Christ down to a level lower than themselves and they elevate themselves into "gods". angry
Christianity EtcRe: "It Doesn't Matter Who Wrote The Bible" by Enigma(m): 1:35pm On Apr 22, 2011
Ha ha, "the objective non- partisan reader trick" as expected ----- very predictable.

OK let me too say something to "the objective non-partisan reader"  ---- especially what might be expected of someone who wants to be taken seriously. Such a person will will say something along these lines.

1. We do not have the original manuscript (we call it "autograph"wink of 1 John.
2. We cannot therefore say conclusively or absolutely that the Johannine Comma was not originally in the the autograph.
3. Some manuscripts (usually more recent) include the Comma
4. Many manuscripts and usually older manuscript do not have the comma
5. There is thus some reason to sugget that the Comma was an addition to the autograph
6. This is  not conclusive however
7. There are any number of reasons why something which was in the autograph may not appear in later copies even though the passage in question is of great importance
8. Even if the Comma was inserted, there is no evidence that its inserrtion was capricious (I wonder what you mean by "illegitimate" anyway; I doubt even you know what you mean by a word used rather thoughtlessly)
9. In any event and in fairness the Comma is an indication of something that Christians believed from a very early time in Christianity.

Now the honest person will acknowledge this much ---- even if they then maintain that in their opinion the Comma was inserted and they believe that it was inserted capriciously or "illegitimately" (whatever "illegitimately" means)
Christianity EtcRe: Pastors And Body Guards. by Enigma(m): 1:12pm On Apr 22, 2011
^^^ Do you see how the fraudster lies in public without any shame saying Jesus had his disciples as security? Sometimes he's just so pathetic you just leave him to it!
Christianity EtcRe: "It Doesn't Matter Who Wrote The Bible" by Enigma(m): 1:05pm On Apr 22, 2011
So where is the proof of "illegitimate insertion" even in the above?
Christianity EtcRe: "It Doesn't Matter Who Wrote The Bible" by Enigma(m): 12:59pm On Apr 22, 2011
^^^^And that is your proof? Your case is worse than I thought.

By the way, what you call insults was just telling youof the kind of preamble or premise required before making certain "weighty" conclusions --- if you want to be taken as a serious and honest person. It is a standard expectation --- nothing more.
Christianity EtcRe: "It Doesn't Matter Who Wrote The Bible" by Enigma(m): 12:41pm On Apr 22, 2011
^^^You see why more and more people realise it is a waste of time discussing with you? You've made or given no proof, yet you speak of "illegitimate insertion"! That is fraudulent or at least daft. Was it inserted at all? By whom? When? If it was inserted what made the insertion "illegitimate"?

An honest and true "intellectual" commentator would address these before making the kind of conclusive statements that you made.

Again, I say that it is a waste of time bothering with your kind of approach. Even now I responded for the sake of people who may be misled by such fraud or intellectual poverty otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time.
Christianity EtcRe: "It Doesn't Matter Who Wrote The Bible" by Enigma(m): 12:20pm On Apr 22, 2011
Christians need not worry or bother too much about misrepresentations concerning 1 John 5 and especially that which is known as "the Johanine Comma" --- further infomation on the passage already exists on a couple of threads; below is link to one examplle.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-497445.0.html#msg6575922

cool
Christianity EtcRe: "It Doesn't Matter Who Wrote The Bible" by Enigma(m): 9:19am On Apr 22, 2011
Going back to the line below

"Language is fluid and flexible, the product of the vagaries of the human soul."
Even individual words can evidently be used in various ways with different meanings or shades of meaning which may depend on context.

1. Take the word "authority" and its use in the following contexts

(a) Einstein was an authority on the theory of relativity
(b) the case of Donoghue v Stevenson is an authority on the meaning of "neighbour" in law
(c) the lecturer concluded on the position of the law on his own authority
(d) Jesus taught as one who had authority
(e) Christians believe in te authority of the Bible

2. Consider the word "cleave" which could mean quite opposite things i.e. either coming together or parting.
Christianity EtcRe: Are We Really Free-morals Beings Or Actually Puppets In God’s Hands? by Enigma(m): 8:09pm On Apr 21, 2011
grin Re "clever people": abi, now as dem like big big words so!
Christianity EtcRe: "It Doesn't Matter Who Wrote The Bible" by Enigma(m): 8:00pm On Apr 21, 2011
grin grin grin Ha ha ha even me likkle bwoy like a what ya say. smiley
Christianity EtcRe: "It Doesn't Matter Who Wrote The Bible" by Enigma(m): 7:24pm On Apr 21, 2011
Re the point on reverse editing in the OP, while a certain writing style may be associated with a particular person one should also note the capacity of that individual to modify/change writing style on a particular occasion for any number of good reasons. Somebody reading the two quotations below without further information would not readily think they were written by the same person.

Na so one time some years ago now, the Ghanaian bobo wen [Bleep] bin put for him Ghana church come vex when them wan transfer am. The bobo kuku seize control of the church for himself. As him and him erstwhile "spiritual father" come they fight (dem bin go court sef) na him e emerge say them bin dey smuggle money from Ghana come Naija like rogues and other nefarious activities.
This is very interesting. In a proper setting, the "church" will have a governing board; the governing board will set the monthly or annual salary (or income) of the "pastor". On this monthly/annual salary/income, the "pastor" should then pay tax --- as the amount is a fixed or set amount, calculating the amount of tax due will not be difficult. The problem we have is as identified by one poster earlier; our modern "pastors" (and their family in many cases) treat all church funds/incomes etc as personal or family assets for all practical purposes e.g. they alone use the "ministry"'s jet etc but for government and tax purposes they will claim that these assets belong to the "ministry" and therefore exempt from tax.
Christianity EtcRe: Are We Really Free-morals Beings Or Actually Puppets In God’s Hands? by Enigma(m): 7:02pm On Apr 21, 2011
^^^ Some clever people call it antinomy. See e.g. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-477833.32.html#msg6382869
Christianity EtcRe: Burnt Offering Predates The Law So Why Is It Not Practised In Churches Today by Enigma(m): 3:27pm On Apr 16, 2011
In relation to whether Jesus and apostles tithed you said

Joagbaje:
The fact that scriptures were silent on it doesn't  mean they didnt . They must have, they were Jews . Did they brush their mouths?
In relation to whether Jesus and the apostles made burnt offering sacrifice, you said

Joagbaje:
Did Jesus or the disciples offer any? The blood of Jesus became the perfect sacrifice. Jesus fulfilled them.
The observation of the sabbath preceeded the law also.
Do you see your own double standards?

EDIT: Meanwhile when Jesus was born you forget about the turtle doves that were offered?
Christianity EtcRe: The Order Of Melchizedek by Enigma(m): 3:20pm On Apr 16, 2011
Grey Beard:
Nope. I'm not interested in educating you on things every serious christian should already know. . . .
Tisha no tish me nansens!  smiley

. . . the Roman Catholic Church who canonised the Bible under the leadership of Emperor Constantine beginning with the Council of Nicea in 325 AD
The above that you wrote is misinformed nonsense and if you are wise you will first reeducate yourself before speaking of "educating" others.
Christianity EtcRe: The Order Of Melchizedek by Enigma(m): 12:44am On Apr 16, 2011
@Joagbaje

At least you made an effort ---- I was hoping Greybeard too would come back and expand.

Anyhooos: for the Old Testament, below is a useful piece which gives a wider picture than you painted. Warning: section 2:2 of the article is however very faulty because it should have made clear that the Council of Jamnia is in dispute as to whether it was a proper "council" in the first place and whether it indeed established an OT canon.

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/sbrandt/canon.htm


As for the New Testament, the wiki entry linked below also gives an overview of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon


EDIT: see also this related post https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-645892.0.html#msg8127199


BTW if Greybeard is still interested, I have a question: what was the decision taken at the Nicea Council (325) on the issue of the canon of the Bible?
Christianity EtcRe: Burnt Offering Predates The Law So Why Is It Not Practised In Churches Today by Enigma(m): 12:22am On Apr 16, 2011
^^^ Did Jesus or the apostles give tithes? The New Covenant ushered in by Christ did away with "tithes"!
Christianity EtcRe: Question For Joagbaje by Enigma(m): 1:24pm On Apr 15, 2011
Oh, as for me, I don't care enough to even ask you for proof let alone to investigate. I am happy just to laugh at your words --- please keep them coming! grin

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