₦airaland Forum

It gets worse!

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=561327.msg7279801#msg7279801

AKHOZEM:
I nominat image 123 for his exhortation on his thread
I nominate joagbaje for his expositions and consistencies

Joagbaje:
There is no numerous I.D.  Joagbaje has been viciously attacked on NL. I have made several complains to moderators , but nothing was done. And there is need for another ID. While joagbaje fades gradually. so that gave birth to AKHOZEM.

That is why "Akhozem" posted here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=610431.msg7815292#msg7815292

AKHOZEM:
@ joagbaje
Thank you for this thread , It's quite enlightening. I have some questions though.

Remember that you also used mabell and co to do similar in the past "oh joagbaje your posts are always insigfhtful".

You have been confirmed to be a fraud.

Ah, he too has been caught out (again, considering the previous Joagbaje/mabell fiasco)? Just like Deep Sight recently ----- the very same basic mistake of using one ID to reply as another ID.

Result? Credibility shot to pieces! I wish I'd caught him myself.

Oh and typically they quickly erase the post that catches them out --- people devoid of integrity!

Edited

donnie:
She didn't retain it. That's what happened. You may receive from God in such an atmosphere of the Word, faith and  the anointing; but it is up to you when you leave that place to resist the devil steadfastly using God's Word rightly. Symptoms may show up, but they are lies of the devil, they are a mirage. The sickness is actually gone. . . . so resist the devil and he will flee!

Staying away from fellowship with the Word and the Spirit or with fellow believers is one sure way to loose your healing. Mind you, satan is out to get the word and the testimony out of your mouth, that it  spread no further.

Sin is another reason.

And the four year old girl? How was she to "resist the devil"?

Who in their right minds would put an onus on a 4 (FOUR) year old to "retain their healing"?

And don't give us further nonsense that the people around her should do it on their behalf. The bottom line is that the "doctrine" of "retaining healing" is simply hogwash used for brainwashing the undiscerning!

Re last two posts:

Placebo effect from temporary exhilaration; well known effect and also well associated with fake healers.

- A chap I knew personally was  declared healed at Benny Hinn's gig in Nigeria and the chap also celebrated and jumped on stage; the chap died about a week later unfortunately.

- Several years ago, an elderly man I knew with some kind of palsy/back trouble went to some similar gig at the Stadium (maybe Obadare's); man also went on stage, and jumped "like he could not jump before"; goes back home and his condition was back to square one.

- Watch the video here and search what happened to the girl*  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2yG96OqNNo

- Finally, google 'Cerullo Audrey Reynolds'

*Edited to substitute better video link with info on what happened to the girl

^^ Indeed, indeed and it is really sad!

The other day it was even somebody not particularly claiming to be a Christian that pointed out that the Joagbaje was marketing a man, i.e. Oyakhilome, instead of God. Whereas God calls people to be his children some choose to be slaves of a man ---- a fake in everything including hair and "PhD" charlatan man at that! Pathetic!

^^ He is not clever enough to understand Zikky's post.

Let me spell one example for him: if the post says "it doesnt have to be through any particular person" --- then why all the adverts for the Oyakhilome the spiritual vagabond? Why all the advert for "Night of bliss" etc. As with example in the following link "night of appointment with destiny" and other nonsense: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-616552.0.html

@ Nuke

You are absolutely right --- once they are caught out either in a lie or in Bible twisting nowadays, they run away and abandon the thread.

Meanwhile the whole world can see their coordination including husband and wife team, the rest of their family, retinue and double IDs; and with all of that it only takes one person to show them up for what they are.

Ah, my people I no vex at all; hence I was using smileys for obowunmi. 

Na new technique wey zikky introduced and it has been proving effective --- just put forward the ridiculous argument of the "touch not my anointed" and prosperity "gospel" crew ----- and somehow it sounds more ridiculous than even when they say it themselves!   

Edit PS @obowunmi -- nothing spoil 

^^^ Who ordained the "spiritual vagabond"?

^^^ Unfortunately, you have not realised that "Jesus did not function in the New Testament". So why should we follow anything he said (other than maybe "tithing"?

^^^ Sorry sir; very sorrity! I should have known that prosperity "gospel" people are cowards secretly ashamed of it.

Wey dem??

Ok, I'll help you a bit.

1. Ever heard of "irony"?

2. Read my posting history!

Again, if only you knew; never mind, ignorance is bliss1

^^^ If only you knew

"Touch not mine anointed"!!!! 

The man is a "minister"; you should respect his 'anointing'; besides you people should  be careful what you may bring on your head by speaking such of an anointed minister. 

babaearly:
Mabell has done it again oh!

It is not new. Rather, it is a regurgitation of lies spread by some children of Satan and Satan of course is the father of lies.

See links for examples: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/tbn_network.htm

John Avanzini: "John 19 tells us that Jesus wore designer clothes. Well, what else you gonna call it? Designer clothes--that's blasphemy. No, that's what we call them today. I mean, you didn't get the stuff He wore off the rack. It wasn't a one-size-fits-all deal. No, this was custom stuff. It was the kind of a garment that kings and rich merchants wore. Kings and rich merchants wore that garment."
"Believer's Voice of Victory" program on TBN [20 January 1991]

PS Avanzini was talking bollocks of course and lying through his teeth.

The same Jesus who "did not function in the New Testament", you want to follow on "tithing"?

When the same Jesus said do not call anyone "father", you people say we should not follow Jesus on that because that will be to remain in babyhood ----- instead we should 'follow Paul' and be calling "pastors" and "ministers" father.

KunleOshob:
I quoted our lord and saviour Jesus christ who is the final authority in heaven and on earth and you are quoting apostle Paul who was merely his servant. I am not suprised as you have demonstrated on a consistent basis that you would rather obey Oyaks than obey the word of God.

Joagbaje:
@kunleoshob
Jesus christ of nazareth didn't function in the new testament. If you must grow out of babyhood, listen to paul.

So to listen to and follow Jesus is to remain in babyhood! Imagine this pathetic nonsense! Satan has well and truly blinded these people. Anyway, Jesus Himself (quoting Isaiah) said: "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men" (Matthew 15:8 & 9)

It would be interesting if the followers of the prosperity "gospel" could make an attempt to challenge or refute what this person is saying because he makes some strong criticisms of that "gospel".

Rough quotes

"The prosperity gospel distorts the message of Jesus Christ . .  . "

"It teaches that tithing or giving to God is an investment"

"It feeds on the greed of its teachers and followers"

"Jesus neither preached nor taught prosperity gospel"

"The prosperity gospel is a seduction into false delusion"

"The prosperity gospel contradicts biblical teaching"

"It is about money"

"It contradicts both the life of Jesus and the purpose for which he died."


Those who believe in the prosperity "gospel", please what do you say to all these?

Matthew 18:20

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

On a roll tonight with the songs, so here goes one on this thread topic:

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/c/h/chofound.htm

The Church’s one foundation
Is Jesus Christ her Lord,
She is His new creation
By water and the Word.
From heaven He came and sought her
To be His holy bride;
With His own blood He bought her
And for her life He died.

She is from every nation,
Yet one o’er all the earth;
Her charter of salvation,
One Lord, one faith, one birth;
One holy Name she blesses,
Partakes one holy food,
And to one hope she presses,
With every grace endued.

The Church shall never perish!
Her dear Lord to defend,
To guide, sustain, and cherish,
Is with her to the end:
Though there be those who hate her,
And false sons in her pale,
Against both foe or traitor
She ever shall prevail.

Though with a scornful wonder
Men see her sore oppressed,
By schisms rent asunder,
By heresies distressed:
Yet saints their watch are keeping,
Their cry goes up, “How long?”
And soon the night of weeping
Shall be the morn of song!

’Mid toil and tribulation,
And tumult of her war,
She waits the consummation
Of peace forevermore;
Till, with the vision glorious,
Her longing eyes are blest,
And the great Church victorious
Shall be the Church at rest.

Yet she on earth hath union
With God the Three in One,
And mystic sweet communion
With those whose rest is won,
With all her sons and daughters
Who, by the Master’s hand
Led through the deathly waters,
Repose in Eden land.

O happy ones and holy!
Lord, give us grace that we
Like them, the meek and lowly,
On high may dwell with Thee:
There, past the border mountains,
Where in sweet vales the Bride
With Thee by living fountains
Forever shall abide!

A propos topic of thread

Give me the wings of faith to rise
Within the veil, and see
The saints above, how great their joys,
How bright their glories be.

Once they were mourningers here below,
And wet their couch with tears:
They wrestled hard, as we do now,
With sins, and doubts, and fears.

I ask them whence their victory came:
They, with united breath,
Ascribe their conquest to the Lamb,
Their triumph to His death.

They marked the footsteps that He trod,
His zeal inspired their bre.ast;
And following their incarnate God,
Possess the promised rest.

Our glorious Leader claims our praise
For His own pattern giv’n;
While the long cloud of witnesses
Show the same path to Heav’n.

Sample (only    ) of my favourite tune/recording of it (Paul Leddington Wright & St Michael Singers): http://www.emusic.com/samples/m3u/song/11363379/18275429.m3u

Interesting story about the song, and other tunes:  http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/g/i/givemetw.htm

As it happens there is a relationship/continuum between this thread and the latter posts of this other https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=607878.msg7792207#msg7792207

In particular, it would be interesting to continue the discussion of the relationship between the "Church" and the Bible/Scriptures.

One of the points made in the latter posts of that thread is that behind the Bible itself is the Church --- and the Church itself has behind it Jesus Christ.

Obviously the Church (i.e.Jesus' followers at least from Pentecost) predates some of the books of the Bible and moreover the Church is the instrument for producing some of them i.e. the New Testament. On the other hand, prior to the Church Jesus Himself used pre-existing scriptures ---- although He showed their true intent (and shortcomings?) in many respects. Thus, it is understandable that the Church saw fit to select scriptures that pre-date it, i.e. the Old Testament, especially considering links to the New Testament through prophecies etc.

Now there are many questions that one can raise from this situation.

First, but which I have assumed, was it truly the "Church" that selected what became the Bible? I personally have assumed/accepted that it is but I would be interested to hear other people's thoughts.

If it is indeed the Church that selected what became the Bible, are we not thus assured that since Jesus is behind the Church, then the Bible that we have is what we are meant to have? If it is what we are meant to have, are we then assured that the Church must have been guided by the Holy Spirit in its selection of the books? And how does this speak in turn to the authority of the Bible?

Now, the Bible as we have it raises many challenging questions still! We do not have the autographs/originals; there are things which are not clear and possibly which we cannot fully ascertain on this earth.

Is that not possibly even part of the design of God - the way God wants things to be? Like, "you have enough in what you have and enough that is quite clear, such that you know the plan of salvation. That is all you need, others are extra and help material; and beyond that are things which must remain cryptic for you (through a glass darkly and all that) until the appointed time."

Beginning to ramble now, so I should stop.

Yep, I agree with the last two posts. In relation to the very last, there are acually many such euphemisms in English translations of the Bible which often do not fully encapsulate the earthiness of the speech of the original speaker.

Try exercise above on the passage below ---- or read the passage in modern translations.

Ezekiel 23

19Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. 20For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses. 21Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.

See here too https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-416889.0.html

I saw the later parts of the programme and it is still still on BBC Iplayer* for UK based folk still interested in seeing it. I also found many things in it fascinating/interesting e.g. the "objection" of one of the scholars to the rendering "Jesus Christ the same yesterday and today and forever" prefering "Jesus Christ, yesterday and today, the same forever" arguing that the latter order would make the sentence more majestic.

Apart from the Tyndale/Roman Catholic politics of translating ekklesia as "church" or "congregation", a broader point is about the shades and nuances of words; for example, and being politically and otherwise neutral, a perusal of a KJV concordance will show that in some circumstances it would not be appropriate to translate 'ekklesia' as "church" and thus, you have it translated as e.g. "assembly" etc. This point seems lost on many people today or, more sinister, is being abused by false teachers and other pompous people without proper training in the original languages who make blind but "authoritative" assertions that "the meaning of the Greek/original word" is x (often just what they want it to mean).


*ETA (Details: "When God Spoke English", BBC Four 21/02/11)

From http://nethymnal.org/htm/f/i/firmlyib.htm

And I hold in veneration,
For the love of Him alone,
Holy Church as His creation,
And her teachings are as His own.

. . . except that the problem, particularly  in current times, is identifying "the true church" and its voice ---- a point being made in recent threads by the poster Frosbel (I believe).

Sigh!

;d ;d ;d

nuclearboy:
^^True talk.

What I actually meant was that he is now being much more careful. The boasts of the past are now in the past and I wager he will rebut this sentence with a "boast". But it will be watered down since he knows he will be used to wipe the floor.

I agree that warnings can come but usually to the "person inside". These people are outside and they wouldn't know a warning or guidance if it broke 6 teeth with a shovel. So at their level, the sermon made sense. And of course, the multitude never could handle truth - its always too hard

Yep, I grab you. Of course he knows the floor has been wiped with him in this thread especially --- thus the resort by him and his household/cohort to diversionary tactics and inane personal comments and ad hominems rather than face the crucial issues and critical questions that we have posed. Pathetic.