₦airaland Forum

Kay 17: With a spiritual ingredient?

Did you not basically equate that with "innate conscientious belief", "conscience" etc recently in order to claim that atheism should be "rightfully" classified as a religion under the American Constitution?

Reminder https://www.nairaland.com/966459/arming-faithful-against-logic/5#11187547

Kay 17: For the meantime, Religion and God are inseparable.

Even if we agree with this, then both Buddhism and evangelical atheism are still religions.

Kay 17: Dishonest.

From you? After this in following link https://www.nairaland.com/978103/religion-atheism-brother/2#11286918

EDITED Link now added; also, if you mean you personally accept that your atheism equates to that of dogs and monkeys I accept that; but you can't pretend to be ignorant of the constant claims of your fellow atheists on the forum!

plaetton: Cry baby again.
You always get personal. I have advised you before that It diminishes you soooo much. Bitterness towards an online adversary?How insecure can someone really be?

I 'd like to think that every nairalander is my friend irrespective of their viewpoints on any issue.

I really abhor getting personal. It is just tooooo childish.
Grow up child.
Where is this christian quality that you would prefer all of us to embrace?
Aaahh, Gosh.
I sincerely feel sorry for people who exhude nothing but personal bitterness when it comes to simple discussions.

More than anyone else in this entire forum, YOU use the word" fool" against your fellow nairalanders at any given opportunity.
Is that really the best you can offer? And you call yourself an educated, enlightened christian?
Yuk.
Surely you cannot be a good lawyer. With such much insecurity and bitterness, how would you deal with opposing lawyers and opposing arguments on a daily basis?

The debates between thiests and athiests will started long before us and will continue till the end of time.
So this hardly about differing points of view. No, it is mmostly about a person with a very very low self esteem who has desprate or even therapeutic need call other persons "fool" in order to temporarily shore up his manhood and esteem.
Pity Pity pity.

You are a conspiracy theory nut, simples.

What is more, you are a hypocrite. You come in throwing words at me; I respond with a short post and you are complaining.

Anyway, remember that you still have the advice that I gave to you a loooong time ago.

1supremo: The problem of the atheist is not a disbelief in God, it is a belief in anything besides God, however ridiculous it is.
CHURCH OF THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER is strictly for atheists.

PS: '' The fool hath said in his heart, 'There is no God.''' PSALM 53vs1

Don't mind the mumus!

As for their flying spaghetti monster etc, see for example https://www.nairaland.com/298119/30-keys-being-effective-atheist/1#9474441

[b]I find that many atheists not only lack knowledge of Christian theology and the contents and contexts of the Bible but lack a basic understanding of natural theology / general revelation, which seeks to infer the cause of the universe from nature (nature not meaning biosphere alone but the universe as a whole).

Take a lack of knowledge of natural theology / general revelation - add to it a lack knowledge of Christian theology and the contents of the Bible - mix that with a typically early age rejection of Christianity - blend it with the early, Sunday School, age understanding of theology - and finally bake it in the presuppositional oven of self-professed erudition and what do we end up with?

We end up with atheists seriously arguing that the concept of God as postulated by Christian theology is on a par with postulating the existence of imaginary friends, fairies, celestial teapots, sky daddies or Flying Spaghetti Monster and Invisible Pink Unicorns.[/b]

plaetton: So atheism is at last a religion?

Hurray! Hurray!

I see that you are able to make the connections between the two words,"religion" and Fools". Congrats!
You are so desperate to call atheists fools that the easiest way for you to prove so was to connect them to, or to make them appear as a bona fide religion.
Clever indeed. You are a clever attorney.
Is very interesting that you, at least, agree or imply that the two words "religion" and "fool" tend to go hand in hand.

Now that atheism is religion, I guess we might as well join the other horde of FOOLS engaging in this most foolish enterprise called religion. So now we are all fools.
If you can't beat them, you might as well join them, heh?

I hope you are not a religious person, otherwise, someone might also refer to you as a Big Fool.
God forbid.

^^^ I have ignored your idiocy for a considerable amount of time now as I see you as nothing more than an idiotic conspiracy theory nut. I don't waste much time with your ignorant and conspiracy lunacy type.

^^^ You always come up with something new and fresh.

zameen: Because its a well established fact that atheists are far far intelligent than religionists!

A fact well established by and for mumus?

shymmex: Thank you!!

I've always said; atheism = religion on steroids....

[b]Those fools are just living in denia[/b]l..

buzugee: and they know it they are the proverbial ostrich that buries its head in the sand

^^^ Of course they know it ---- that is why many of them say atheism is "lack of belief" (as with dogs and their brother monkeys etc) instead of facing the fact that it is active disbelief.

And for those complaining that calling atheists fools is insulting some anonymous Japanese ----- hmmmmmm calling Nigerians, (identifiable Nigerians with whom you are trying to get in conversation) imbeciles, 'tools', brainwashed etc is praising what percentage of Nigerians exactly?

ebamma: what shocks me most is that this so called atheists spend all their time talking about God.

Hmmmm

Compare below from here https://www.nairaland.com/445085/chalenge-huxleykay-17ogaga4luv-other-atheists/7#10836976

5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

^^ Cool!

My current signature . . . .

"To insist that religion is peculiarly malignant is fanaticism, or mere stupidity." - John Gray

In different style (but still all good).

Commissioned, You've been Good (time & seasons; 1999)

(Chorus)
It's not because of what I've done
It's not because of what I've become
It's just because of who You are
It's not because of how I give
It's not because of how I live
It's just because of who You are
You've been so good to me


(Verse 1)
Tell me, tell me
How can it be?
Knowing all my issues
You still chose to love me
And show me favor
Favor beyond measure
Always taking pleasure
And blowing my mind
With Your joy divine
There are battles I have won
Struggles I have overcome
I would brag if I could
But oh Lord, You've been so good


(Verse 2)
Faithful in my time of trouble
You always let me know
You're always in control
That's why, that's why I can trust You
Why I always seek to
Praise you in all I do

Logicbwoy: How do you know that he is a christian? My father hasnt stepped foot in a church for the past 10 years neither have I seen him pray or read the bible.

You went all the way to egypt to worship in a church.

^^^ Look, just two things:

1. You assume I went to Egypt just to go to church ------ just like you make all sorts of foolish assumptions all over the forum.

2. You have yourself said repeatedly that your father is still a Christian; it doesn't matter anyway because anytime you say something to me which also applies to your father I will always point out to you that you are also talking about your father.

^^^ But since he is still a Christian (and you don't even know my standards), it is ok then to say your father too can't see outside his delusion --- which is why he is deluded in the first place.

^^^ Last time you said you would call your father a brainwashed tool just as you called me. Now again, I imagine you will also agree that you will say your father can't see outside his delusion as you've just said to me?

^^^ I will not waste time arguing with you; all I will say is that I have been in churches in Egypt and I have worshipped with those Sudanese refugees and others . . . .

lagerwhenindoubt: Does God encourage critical inquiry from his children - I think so but it seems modern-day Christianity is a throw-back to the dark-ages of heresy, apostasy, blasphemy.. nobody wants to question or test the spirits anymore

The expression "modern-day Christianity" is telling; also, it is in part a reflection of one sad and glaring but very common mistake on Nairaland in particular - which is the simplistic (or even sometimes duplicitous) assumption/expression that Christianity is represented by the ubiquitous prosperity "gospel".

Go to Egypt, for example, and see materially poor Sudanese refugees worshipping joyfully in a generally sedate Anglican church where nobody talks anything about material prosperity; think of China where the underground house church movement remains strong despite persecution; try the UK where the traditional churches including especially the Anglicans do not preach or practise tithing and where there are constant debates about the application of the Bible in light of contemporary circumstances; even in Nigeria where the Anglican church (unlike Anglicans elsewhere) still preach/practise tithing, there is certainly still a recognisable intellectual dimension to faith.

So this broad-brush of "modern-day Christianity" is inadvisable or to be used with advised caution; true that abuses within the Nigerian brand of the prosperity "gospel" in particular are undeniable but that is not representative of what Christianity is and, nevertheless, even within that aberration you have voices (even if a minority) calling for reform.

ijawkid: Lol....

I aint bro.....

I'll be happy when one day u guys will agree that ur a religious group.(An anti-God) group....

Soon u'"ll be having pastors and all of it....hehehehehe

They already have pastors etc; below is just one example (there are others).




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ZvD09uS2c



EDIT see also http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2010/01/harvards-atheist-chaplain.html

^^^ Na so!

D - e - n - i - a - l

^^^^ Atheism, the evangelical form of it, is the religion for and of fools.

Moses in particular was always questioning or "arguing" with God --------- yet he was bestowed with such great honour as to be at The Transfiguration.

Zikkyy: It's not free oh can't speak for the others, but send my 10%

If no be say na you, enh? If say na our 'errant' brother Joagbaje, enh?

No wayooooo! Nice to 'see' you again, zikky.


PS about the '8' when certain letters or figures {e.g. ; or 8} come before the second part of a bracket ) they turn into something else like the cool/glasses icon etc. Na wa!

^^^ Thanks bro and everyone on the thread; as someone reading most posts quietly in the background I have to say that i have thoroughly enjoyed the thread and the spirit in which it has been conducted.

hisblud: Great! So we should cry sob Oh could it have coincided with the latest god on the block-Higg Bison-god particle..... .

Naaah, no need.

This lady performed the same song she is singing here at the Olympics opening cermony.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmtRlEIIZnQ

^^^ Like.

We should try to avoid the "either/or" or "absolutist" trap.

(Edit: see also the quote immediately above yours)

Per J I Packer previously posted here https://www.nairaland.com/477833/usual-suspects-co-suffering/1#6382869

The particular antinomy which concerns us here is the apparent opposition between divine sovereignty and human responsibility, or (putting it more biblically) between what God does as King and what He does as Judge. Scripture teaches that, as King, He orders and controls all things, human actions among them, in accordance with His own eternal purpose. Scripture also teaches that, as Judge, He holds every man responsible for the choices he makes and the courses of action he pursues. Thus hearers of the gospel are responsible for their reaction; if they reject the good news, they are guilty of unbelief. “He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed.” Again, Paul, entrusted with the gospel, is responsible for preaching it; if he neglects his commission, he is penalized for unfaithfulness. “Necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!” God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility are taught us side by side in the same Bible; sometimes, indeed, in the same text. Both are thus guaranteed to us by the same divine authority; both, therefore, are true. It follows that they must be held together, and not played off against each other. Man is a responsible moral agent, though he is also divinely controlled; man is divinely controlled, though he is also a responsible moral agent. God’s sovereignty is a reality, and man’s responsibility is a reality too. This is the revealed antinomy in terms of which we have to do our thinking about divine command and free-will.

To our finite minds, of course, the thing is inexplicable. It sounds like a contradiction, and our first reaction is to complain that it is absurd. Paul notices this complaint in Rornans 9: “Thou wilt say then unto me, Why does he [God] yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?” (Rom. 9:19). If, as our Lord, God orders all our actions, how can it be reasonable or right for Him to act also as our Judge, and condemn our shortcomings? Observe how Paul replies. He does not attempt to demonstrate the propriety of God’s action; instead, he rebukes the spirit of the question. “Nay but, 0 man, who are thou that repliest against God?” What the objector has to learn is that he, a creature and a sinner, has not right whatsoever to find fault with the revealed ways of God. Creatures are not entitled to register complaints about their Creator.7

This incomprehensible antinomy—God’s will, man’s will, and free will—occupies a large part of God’s truth. Does this subject have a message for ministers and Christians in this day of doctrinal indifference and ignorance? It most certainly does.

Cool, lol; anyway I'm leaving you guys to it as I'm going out to see (or sea* even) if I can catch some bass this evening.

* Reminds of one for those not humour challenged.

Intercession time in church:

Prayer request as heard by many of congregation: "John having gone to see his wife, requests the prayer of the church."

Original prayer request: John having gone to sea, his wife requests the prayer of the church.

Ah, no --- we go back some time.

Sweetnecta is an old friend and like a good muslim does not like puq.

^^^ Alhaji, nice to see you; ramadan kareem.

^^^ Whether it is religion in the form of Christianity, of Islam or of atheism, man is capable of misusing anything.

Even whether it is science or worse still scientism, man is capable of misusing it.

The point here though is the natural correlation between atheism and the absence of morality. Hence, people like you, Kay, try to coopt "morality" from borrowed bases which usually are bases to be found eventually in religion and ulimately in God in some way. This is even true of so-called "secular humanism".

^^^ Please look it up (e.g. on google) and, I assure you, you will see how it relates to the point being made in the post immediately preceding mine about the arguments earlier on the thread.

Best wishes.