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Christianity Etc › Re: An Old Woman And An Ethiest/ Islamist Who Think Miracles Dont Happen! by Enigma(m): 2:18pm On Jul 26, 2012

As has ben pointed out in this forum before, it is very interesting that the evangelical atheists for all their constant obnoxiousness are very thin skinned. Even my friend manmustwack (who I genuinely like generally) recently closed a thread simply because it was making fun of atheists (something for which he has previous form)!

Additionally, many of the evangelical atheists are simply obtuse and some humourless to the point of being philistines --- factual observational point rather than abuse simply.

Anyway, why don't the people failing to see the humour of the OP try their "analytical" and "dissective" skills at the one below adapted from
http://www.sermonillustrations.com/a-z/r/responsibility.htm

A pastor who bought a piece of derelict property that was overgrown by weeds and other rubbish spent considerable time to renovate and revitalise the property. He was visited by the local farmer (Farmer Brown) one day and the following conversation ensued:

Farmer Brown took a long look at the preacher and cast a longer eye over the revitalized property. Then he nodded his approval and said, "Well, preacher, it looks like you and God really did some work here."

The pastor, wiping the sweat from his face, answered, "It's interesting you should say that, Mr. Brown. But I've got to tell you -- you should have seen this place when God had it all to Himself!"

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: An Old Woman And An Ethiest/ Islamist Who Think Miracles Dont Happen! by Enigma(m): 1:53pm On Jul 26, 2012

^^^ Precisely why I clicked the 'like' button because I enjoyed the OP for the joke (for goodness sake!) that it makes.

Christianity Etc › Re: Ex Nihilo Nihil Fit Refutes The Existence Of God? by Enigma(m): 1:16pm On Jul 26, 2012

^^^ Necessary being on the one hand and contingent being[i]s[/i] on the other.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Morality Possible Without An Authoritative Source? by Enigma(m): 11:53am On Jul 26, 2012

^^^^ From http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0214.htm

Like Stalin and Mao, Hitler illustrates the point made by both Dostoyevsky and earlier John Locke: when God is excluded, then it is not surprising when morality itself is sacrificed in the process and chaos and horror is unleashed on the world. So it has been in our time, and all the elaborate evasions produced by today’s atheists cannot change what their anti-religious kinsmen did, cannot change the grim facts of history.

Christianity Etc › Re: Ministries, Churches And Denominations by Enigma(m): 8:30pm On Jul 25, 2012

OLAADEGBU: Even though you are tempted to poke your nose into this thread we don't need you to sympathise with us. We have diagnosed the problem and by God's grace are going to fix it.

Ah, interesting point. In the days when Christians could discuss among themselves on this forum without much obnoxious interference, challenging one another on beliefs and practices was common place here. Of course when the challenges take place (and of course get heated as they do sometimes) outsiders and misguided folk will be shouting, "the Christians are not united"; "they are 'fighting' one another" etc. And of course in the context of people agitating for Christian only discussions, some people will mock and scoff that "well you Christians will only end up 'fighting' anyway".

On the other hand, now that many Christians maintain silence or low profile, the mockers and scoffers say "look, the Christians are afraid and are avoiding this thread or the other like the plague" etc etc". They do not realise that sometimes the Christians are just paying heed (as many are now beginning to do) to the old advice not to argue with mad people as much as the argument is avoidable.

Christianity Etc › Re: And He Called Himself 'the Son Of Man': An Insight by Enigma(m): 12:31pm On Jul 25, 2012

From here https://www.nairaland.com/813596/how-know-jesus-son-god/5#9684139

Matthew 16:13-17

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, 'Who do people say the Son of Man is?' They replied, 'Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.'

'But what about you?' he asked. 'Who do you say I am?' Simon Peter answered, 'You are the Christ [Messiah], the Son of the living God.'

Jesus replied, 'Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.'

In summary this is what the blue words reveal Jesus as saying: . . . the Son of Man is . . . the Son of the Living God . . . revealed . . . by my Father in heaven.

cool

Christianity Etc › Re: What Evidence Would Change Your Present Atheistic Postulations? @ NL Atheists by Enigma(m): 9:43am On Jul 21, 2012

^^^ Just as Stalin, Mao etc etc demonstrated the consequences of their atheism? Cool.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: What Evidence Would Change Your Present Atheistic Postulations? @ NL Atheists by Enigma(m): 9:23am On Jul 21, 2012

cyrexx: Hmmm, big bros

i was truly involved in Christianity and Christian doctrine for many many years, i mean the hardcore born-again evangelical Christianity, so i understand Christianity as any other true christian would.

Mr Anony on the other hand, understands beforehand if God refuses to manifest himself to prove his existence like he did in the bible. he even understands how an idol can override God's mission to manifest himself and prove himself to Martian.

you see the difference now, sir

@cyrexx

I want to make a point regarding the bolded and also seeing you once saying you were defrauded through "tithing" and also made to be scared through teachings on "hell". In addition, I bear in mind that you were part of the prevalent form of 'Christianity' in Nigeria i.e. the Prosperity "Gospel".

First, a general point (granted a little sweeping) about aspirational (Southern) Nigerians. They are generally swayed by what is fashionable (e.g. Cele church was once 'reigning', now it is "born again" ); they rush into anything they think will bring/lead to money, wealth, fame etc (as with wonder banks etc) and thus many people are attracted to the Prosperity "Gospel" because of its promises of health and wealth etc and some because it gives openings for business and social contacts etc. There is of course also the self-assuring comfort of being "spiritual" even though and perhaps especially because often the material is being turned and reinterpreted to be spiritual. A specific example - Jesus and the Bible say one's focus should not be on material wealth; the Prosperity "gospel" reinterpretes the Bible to make "material wealth" to be spiritual.

Now this is the consequence: when people go into "Christianity" or rather the Prosperity "Gospel" for these wrong reasons of follow-follow and motives of material benefits, they are often robbed of the glorious truths and the surpassing peace of the Christian message as taught by Jesus Christ and the apostles. For example, if you understand Jesus' teachings about love you will not serve God because of the fear of 'hell' (at least not for yourself, whilst for others e.g. apparent "non-Christians", you will trust God to do right); if you understand Jesus' teaching about materialism, you will realise that as a Christian you can have inner peace and joy without material riches even as you are not prohibited from harnessing your talents, skills and opportunities to acquire material things.

Now this is where I am going: when some people who got carried away by the Prosperity "gospel" for the wrong reaons of follow-follow and materialistic motives, discover that the prosperity "gospel" is full of largely empty promises, they feel cheated; they feel they have been robbed/defrauded through "tithing" for example (I've seen this among both Nigerian and UK based followers of the [Nigerian] prosperity "gospel" ) ----- and in many cases, they turn against a God that they never really understood or knew properly ---- since what they knew and understood was a caricature.

Now to be fair, I have a grouse with the prosperity "gospel" particularly but it is also true that to various extents Christians in general do not present or represent God well or accurately and no doubt this contributes in some part to scepticism. Nevertheless the overriding point is for YOU by yourself and your own endeavour in humility to ask God to reveal Himself to you rather than relying on other people (be they theist or atheist) to do your thinking for you as seems to be the case with you presently, in my view.

Peace.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: What Evidence Would Change Your Present Atheistic Postulations? @ NL Atheists by Enigma(m): 8:39am On Jul 21, 2012

^^ Just like you think you know and understand Christianity and Christian doctrine better than those involved in it?

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: What Evidence Would Change Your Present Atheistic Postulations? @ NL Atheists by Enigma(m): 8:28am On Jul 21, 2012

Light relief from https://www.nairaland.com/744813/religion-section-funny-memorable-quotes#9009029

justcool:
. . . . I don’t have any scientific evidence that God exists; neither do you have any scientific evidence that God does not exist.. . . .

davidylan:
Neither does the atheist have any empirical evidence that God doesnt exist at all . . . infact the only argument the atheist has is that the theist has not provided God's home address to him.

MyJoe:
That won't do. They'd want to shake hands.

Now, how such can qualify to be God in anyone's view beats me.

Christianity Etc › Re: Michael Faraday Believed In GOD, So Why Do Atheists Use Electricity by Enigma(m): 9:39pm On Jul 20, 2012

^^ Despite the young fella's self arrogated "logic", I thought the post was too devoid of logic to be worth a proper response.

What the fella does not realise is that every time he calls most (ok, perhaps some) of us Christians here "a brainwashed tool", he is saying exactly the same about his father ---- despite the trotted credentials of working with Europeans etc etc etc.

Christianity Etc › Re: Michael Faraday Believed In GOD, So Why Do Atheists Use Electricity by Enigma(m): 8:22pm On Jul 20, 2012

^^^ OK.

Christianity Etc › Re: Michael Faraday Believed In GOD, So Why Do Atheists Use Electricity by Enigma(m): 8:13pm On Jul 20, 2012

MacDaddy01: What is dishonest about saying that the bible has contradictions? You are a brainwashed tool and your quote makes little sense.

Simple contradiction;

Incest is bad in the old testament but Abraham married his step sister Sarah

I imagine you also call your father a "brainwashed tool"? If so, no problem then.

Christianity Etc › Re: Michael Faraday Believed In GOD, So Why Do Atheists Use Electricity by Enigma(m): 7:17pm On Jul 20, 2012

Enigma: When evangelical atheists say they have read the Bible but only ever come up with the same "contradictions" or what we Christians call "difficult passages", they wonder why we are tempted to laugh at them for their ignorance or to shake head sadly for them for their duplicity/dishonesty . . .

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How I Murdered The 5 Argument That Killed Atheism by Enigma(m): 7:13pm On Jul 20, 2012

Kay 17: I understand, open up a new thread that.

I even give you an example of a thread on Christianity as being, as you say, "reasonable and "justified" and, for that matter, even more.

https://www.nairaland.com/523483/come-now-let-us-reason

cool

Christianity Etc › Re: Michael Faraday Believed In GOD, So Why Do Atheists Use Electricity by Enigma(m): 7:03pm On Jul 20, 2012

Also David,

Remember that we professing Christians between us have thrashed out the issue of faith/grace/works a million times on this forum.

Our friend is aware of that fact but of course he has no genuine desire to understand the issue; even if you explain it to him as clear as day, it will not prevent him from trying the same thing out on another Christian poster tomorrow.

It is truly pathetic.

cool

Christianity Etc › Re: How I Murdered The 5 Argument That Killed Atheism by Enigma(m): 6:57pm On Jul 20, 2012

Kay 17: @enigma

What is Faith as practised by Christians?

Faith has many meanings and shades of meaning but in this context the Christian faith fundamentally is belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God who brought the gospel i.e. the good news of the kingdom of God to mankind.

I have answered so as not to seem to be avoiding the question but I really would not like that point to derail the thread and undermine the central things being discussed.

Christianity Etc › Re: How I Murdered The 5 Argument That Killed Atheism by Enigma(m): 6:47pm On Jul 20, 2012

Kay 17: Faith meaning blind acceptance? No.

I have accepted scientific axioms as reasonable and justified. Thus accept the scientific system.

Just in the same way that we Christians accept the gospel ----- NOT "blind faith" but as reasonable and justified. But then even more: confirmed to us experientially.

Christianity Etc › Re: How I Murdered The 5 Argument That Killed Atheism by Enigma(m): 6:37pm On Jul 20, 2012

^^^ So, you are simply taking the theory by faith then.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: How I Murdered The 5 Argument That Killed Atheism by Enigma(m): 6:29pm On Jul 20, 2012

Kay 17: All scientific theories are empirical in nature in the first place, or else they wouldn't be regarded as scientific.

If a Christian quotes the Bible to prove the Bible, you will criticise him; but in effect that is what you are doing here.

I even expected you to go with particle colliders etc but, rather surprisingly, you didn't go that far and to me you have succeeded in saying precisely nothing to be honest.

Christianity Etc › Re: Michael Faraday Believed In GOD, So Why Do Atheists Use Electricity by Enigma(m): 6:25pm On Jul 20, 2012

@davidylan

I would say again, don't bother to feed the troll; as many people have pointed out before (myself, debosky as you know, etc etc) he will keep seeking to goad you into time wasting responses so as he can continue to widen and widen the narrow issue you were discussing to other nonsenses in his quest to discredit the same Bible he says is not useful for what he is "interested in".

Christianity Etc › Re: How I Murdered The 5 Argument That Killed Atheism by Enigma(m): 6:21pm On Jul 20, 2012

Kay 17: I picked up the useful definition.

Actually Kay17, why avoid the real question?

Why not explain how the big bang theory is "empirical" within each of the three definitions now on the table?

thehomer: Aww. Are you still smarting from that discussion?

The post is to intimate others that you people generally resort to underhand and sometimes out and out detestably dishonest tactics; you should know, as I have caught and exposed you at it often enough. wink

[s]
If David is wise, he will not feed the troll.
[/s] (actually for another thread)
cool

Christianity Etc › Re: How I Murdered The 5 Argument That Killed Atheism by Enigma(m): 6:02pm On Jul 20, 2012

^^ But not the most relevant definition --- how is that intellectually honest? wink

Christianity Etc › Re: How I Murdered The 5 Argument That Killed Atheism by Enigma(m): 5:50pm On Jul 20, 2012

thehomer himself has form when it comes to manipulating "definitions" wink

https://www.nairaland.com/546562/atheism-religion/8#7314250

cool

Christianity Etc › Re: Michael Faraday Believed In GOD, So Why Do Atheists Use Electricity by Enigma(m): 5:33pm On Jul 20, 2012

^^^ Yep, no point feeding trolls.

Christianity Etc › Re: Michael Faraday Believed In GOD, So Why Do Atheists Use Electricity by Enigma(m): 12:39pm On Jul 20, 2012

One I made earlier. wink

https://www.nairaland.com/914444/abandoned-religion-god-today-im/33#10752545

Enigma: Reading the Bible is not quite the same as studying the Bible.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why So Many Atheists In The Religion Section? by Enigma(m): 9:52am On Jul 20, 2012*

@ toba

It is not even worth wasting too much time on that kind of post and misuse of "statistics". It is actually stupid (or simplistic, to pretend to be polite) to say that a nation is poor because its population is "religious" or that a nation is rich because its population is "irreligious".

Take just two things into consideration (there are several other factors actually):

The population of Denmark is about 5 million (probably less than half the population of Lagos); the population of Nigeria is about 180 or so million. Does that not already tell you something about the share of national resources available to individuals in the respective countries? On the other hand the USA which has a huge population is still considered "rich" (despite its debt) because of e.g. the size of its GDP when compared to Nigeria's. But guess what is more important here in the context of this thread? America is a predominantly religious country!

The second thing (even though there are many others I could point to) is that the people who rely on these "statistics" are either misinformed or duplicitous in not pointing out that (a) the countries they are relying upon actually built their wealth and its foundation at a time when their people were religious and (b) many of them e.g. Denmark actually still have a state religion --- which is usually Christianity.

Oh and for those relying on those kind of statistics I give you one more country to add to your list ---- Monaco (one of the richest countries and a nice place too

) .

Christianity Etc › Re: Michael Faraday Believed In GOD, So Why Do Atheists Use Electricity by Enigma(m): 9:23am On Jul 20, 2012

Previously posted elsewhere (abbreviated) https://www.nairaland.com/990487/morality-possible-without-authoritative-source/9#11487585

Enigma: When evangelical atheists say they have read the Bible but only ever come up with the same "contradictions" or what we Christians call "difficult passages", they wonder why we are tempted to laugh at them for their ignorance or to shake head sadly for them for their duplicity/dishonesty . . .

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Morality Possible Without An Authoritative Source? by Enigma(m): 12:51pm On Jul 19, 2012

[quote author=Mr_Anony]
Lol, you seem to really dread hell.

1. All different religions must be put to the test so as to determine their "rightness".
2. Misconception. We don't worship God because we are afraid of hell, we worship God because He created us and He loves us even before we came to know Him.
3. Will I still serve God if there was no heaven and hell? Yes. In fact I will not even be able to not serve Him.

About senseless absurdities, I will tell you what is a senseless absurdity: It is atheism.
Atheism says that man's existence is meaningless and that anyone that thinks otherwise is deluded. This is most absurd.[/quote]When evangelical atheists say they have read the Bible but only ever come up with the same "contradictions" or what we Christians call "difficult passages", they wonder why we are tempted to laugh at them for their ignorance or to shake head sadly for them for their duplicity/dishonesty ---- because of course they fail to point out or explore basic things/passages in the Bible as e.g.

1 John 4

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear: because fear has to do with punishment. He that fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why So Many Atheists In The Religion Section? by Enigma(m): 12:26pm On Jul 19, 2012

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Thumbs down dude, remember the aim is to win a soul in love and not impress him with your "superiority"[/quote]@Mr_Anony

The aim may not be to impress with "superority", I agree with that; but when you have spent some time on the religion forum to understand its dynamics, you will hesitate to say the aim here is "to win a soul" and you might also understand why the asbsurdities and even idiocies of some of the posters need to be challenged and/or exposed even if only occasionally.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Morality Possible Without An Authoritative Source? by Enigma(m): 3:03pm On Jul 15, 2012

mkmyers45: Sir, can you kindly summarize everything you've been saying into two simple sentences...

My posts have all been very short ---- and deliberately so. In fact, I think your inquiry was already sufficiently addressed when I answered your question at your behest with the below.

Enigma: If you mean your own question, my answer is that "morality" is not possible without an objective reference point which may possibly be what you mean by an "authoritative source".

I have placed "morality" in quotes very deliberately because another issue would be whether you regard "morality", as you are using it, as universal or relative/local/individual etc.

For example, the logic that many atheists have presented here is that cannibalism is not immoral insofar as it is acceptable in a/the particular society where it is practised.

Can we say cannibalism is always and universally immoral?

Again, at your latest request: there is need for an objective reference point when deciding on morality.

Is that objective reference point merely the society/environment in which one finds oneself? If we say it is, then we will have to accept that anything at all (cannibalism, genocide etc etc) can be moral. If anything at all can be moral and, as you say, depending on time and place, then what is your problem with "God" as in can you then justly accuse "God" of acting "immorally"?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Morality Possible Without An Authoritative Source? by Enigma(m): 2:38pm On Jul 15, 2012

Kay 17: I didn't say cannibalism is universally immoral, but that its unpleasant to admit it.

Oh sorry then; so you admit also that cannibalism can be moral? Then I have no problem with your atheism stance then and the issue of compatibility.

mkmyers45: Why don't you come out in planer ways and give your opinions as its hard to follow your exact meanings...

I think my opinion and meaning are clear enough. One thing that has become clear to me though is that you still ned to do a lot of careful thinking on the topic.

Wish you all the best.

1 Like

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