₦airaland Forum

Upnepaa:
You are partially right.

Pep is a good coach but I as a person does not like overrating people above their normal level. that's why I will never compare Pep to the great Sir Alex Ferguson?

But you need to tackle the other side of the debate too, that is, chanting pep is a fraud up and down as if it will solve the myriad of challenges of their own club. Yes, Pep is Overrated? but is he a fraud at the same? or is the word fraud is being abused here? or many of his critics don't even know the meaning of fraud.

Don't get waylaid by the dross that people think here is wisdom. A lot of what you will read is tepid even borderline rubbish. I personally don't read posts from people who just like to give popular opinions because they are craving acceptance of the majority.

izzou:
[color=royalblue]Lol

I think I'm done with this back and forth arguments.

Maybe his performance was not shambolic.
All his losses this season would have been averted it only LaPorte was on the pitch

Have a splendid day, sire [/color]

Laporte was on the pitch when City lost 4 games last season and Liverpool lost only 1. But somehow City still won the league. So maybe losing games is not as important as a non-shambolic observer would want to admit.

patrickmuf:
We will get back to this point of yours when Laporte is back fit and City keeps conceding.

That's how Dayo in a bid to rubbish Van Dijk Said Liverpool's defensive solidity had more to do with Allison and when Allison started conceding, he brought Matip into the picture...

When Laporte is back, the next talk will be Sane.

Okay. Can't argue with the facts so ask a question by yourself and then answer it.

izzou:
[color=royalblue]Of course, I saw it

City has lost to Manchester United, Norwich and the rest. I didn't see you blame Otamendi too

I can also list matches that City has won this season, with Otamendi playing in them. But I didn't see you saying his performance was poor[/color]

You have used your 2 different paragraphs to argue with yourself.

City will not lose every game that Laporte is not playing in. Just like they will not win every game he plays in. But there will be a difference when he is on. Objective people can know the difference and then decide what argument they are trying to make.

izzou:
[color=royalblue]A man down when you had a two goal lead? Common. You obviously know football better than this

He had 40 minutes to just hold on and get even a draw. Or are you saying Wolves midfielders are better than City's?

That was a very shambolic performance from Pep. If that was a final, it would have been worse.

But what's disappointing is that you Pep loyalists found a way of exonerating him from it, and blaming it on LaPorte's absence.[/color]

If he managed the team to score 2 goals with a man down away from home, maybe the performance was not as shambolic as you are claiming.

izzou:
[color=royalblue]I have not challenged Pep's victory last season. He worked for it, he earned it and he deserved it. So that last paragraph is for those who wish to argue about that, not me

And yes, a coach can manage a team well, and perform poorly the next season. Ancelloti was just booted out of Napoli.

Is he a good coach? Yes
Did he manage Napoli well? No

Because Pep won it last season doesn't mean he cannot fall short of expectations and standards

And I still insist, LaPorte's absence is not a reason for their losses. Wolves beat City 2-0 in the first leg. Maybe LaPorte was supposed to assist their forwards in that match.... Maybe[/color]

Congrats to Wolves. Hope you saw the role Otamendi (Laporte's replacement) played in that loss as well or maybe you only read the box score to see how that game went.

patrickmuf:
I understand you have been cornered...

If you think the value of Fabinho to Liverpool is the same as Laporte to City. E reach to laugh.

Remember I said that a player is the best does not mean he is not replaceable. For e.g Leicester can survive for a few with Vardy out even though he is better than Iheanacho. Just like City survived without KdB last season. But surviving without Laporte for 6 months is not the same. City conceded 23 goals all season in the EPL last year but this season they have already conceded 24.

izzou:
[color=royalblue]We can all have imaginations but in the end, only facts can be presented

Pep scored his two goals after the red card. As at 50 minutes, he had a very good advantage. Instead of defending Pep, you should be disappointed with that slothful performance.

You keep saying "A team like Wolves", but they have lost 5 matches and drew 9 matches. The teams that took these points from them are not Bayern, Barça or Real Madrid. Some are average teams in the PL.

Because they beat Pep twice doesn't mean you should overrate them. Wolves is still an average team[/color]

Just like United have lost home games to small teams and Liverpool could not beat them there. That Wolves have lost and drawn games does not make them bad. For e.g, you conveniently ignored the fact that even with 11 players at Anfield. Liverpool needed a goal that should have been disqualified to beat the same Wolves. But somehow playing with a man down against them at their ground for 80 mins is not a good enough excuse.

patrickmuf:
See how easy it is to use points difference to argue yet if someone claims Pep's team is better the ones other managers met, you'd argue otherwise...

?

izzou:
[color=royalblue]I took your advice and these are City's injured players currently

So kindly show me how the absence of these two made Pep lose matches to even smaller teams. [/color]

I really don't want to talk too much because there is alot to say.

But if you think comparing injuries that are 2-3 weeks long to a replaceable player like Fabinho to a 6 months long injury to Laporte. What are we then discussing?

Let us all pretend Pep did not win last season with Kompany, KdB, Mendy, Fernandinho being out many times last season. So we can say he does not know how to manage.

patrickmuf:
Nothing about SAF is subjective, he managed to keep his players motivated over time, something Pep is struggling to do...This one isn't debatable.

Yea. Winning a league with 81 points. That is motivation compared to City that may probably need 94pts this season to win the league.

patrickmuf:
Chamberlain was a key member of Liverpool's when they reached the UCL final 2 seasons ago, he was injured for a year and nobody complained. Fabinho is just as important for Liverpool as Laporte is for City. Overall, Liverpool have had to deal with more injuries to their first team squad but nobody is using it as an excuse.

Regarding City winning the league when Manchester United and Arsenal were in the peak of their powers, I'd say it will be very difficult maybe a title here or there but they wouldn't dominate the league...

Fabinho is like Laporte to City? LOL.
Chamberlain is important to LFC. LOL.
More injuries. LOOOOOOL.

izzou:
[color=royalblue]As at 50 minutes in the match, City were 2 goals up. And in 40 minutes they bottled it.

What's your explanation for that?

And at the bolded, are you saying Wolves have not lost or had a draw in their home? Or should we list teams that have gotten a point from there

Bros, it is difficult to stay at the top, and that is what Pep is experiencing. But apart from that, he has been poor in managing that team.

[/color]

10 mins away from home against a team like Wolves is enough time. Liverpool just barely beat them by a goal that VAR should have disallowed seeing that they disallowed Wolves goal and Liverpool were at Anfield. You can use your own imagination to predict how that game could have gone if Liverpool had a red card in the 12th min.

patrickmuf:
Allison has had his time on the sidelines this season but Liverpool didn't make excuse of his absence. Fabinho, a key cog in that Liverpool midfield has been out for the past couple of weeks yet nobody is talking about him. Salah too has missed games this season. Matip and Lovren are out injured but nobody is making excuses of their absence.

If motivation should suffice as an excuse, then we should gives props to the likes of Fergie who also found a way to keep the players motivated in spite of their successes in the league. It is one area where I think Fergie is significantly better than Pep, Mourinho and the likes. I have not added Klopp because I want to see how well he will handle the pressure that comes with staying at the top of the log after they prolly win the league this season but based on his time with BVB, he fits into the bracket of short term managers.

Talking about point haul, if you conveniently argue that player quality cannot be measured seasons apart, why don't you apply same logic here? Do you think those points recorded in the past means that this city team with blow any of those title winning teams apart? Will this City team stand a chance against Manchester United's 2008 team? Will they stand a chance against the invincibles of Arsenal? I think not but those teams never won 100 pts in the league doesn't mean they're in anyway inferior...

Your argument is all over the place.

City have won games without Ederson, KdB, Mendy, Zinchenko, Aguero, Laporte, Sané this season already. Any team can survive here and there with key injuries but it is a different kettle of fish when a key player is out for 6 months.

I am not going into any SAF arguments simply because it will always be subjective. But if you think winning a league with 100 and 98 pts os equal to winning with 87 and 90 points be my guest.

If you are asking if City is better than those teams in the EPL, the answer is simple. Will City win the league in those seasons?

izzou:
[color=royalblue]Even the match that Becker was redcarded, Liverpool managed to win (2-1 or so)

Yet, City was 2 goals up against Wolves with a red card, and they still lost.

Pep lost it this season.. I don't know better than him, but he has been poor in managing the team this season [/color]

Proof again of what I said earlier.

You want to compare Brighton at Anfield to Wolves at their home ground?

Red card when Liverpool are up 2-0 with how few mins to go compared to City with a red card from the 12th min?

LOL

izzou:
[color=royalblue]I'm not here to argue either. I've never joined the "Pep is a fraud" chants. Pep is a good coach; a very good one. But making excuses for his losses because of the absence of one or two players don't cut it.

Because one is performing better than you, doesn't mean they have it all. Liverpool have had more injuries than Man City this season. 5 of their first team squad are injured. Keita was to start yesterday. It was in the dressing room Milner came up because of injury. Yet Klopp still manages them

I'm not here to argue back and forth. Pep missed it this season. It happens. So no need to use the injury line as an excuse.[/color]

Like I said before, you are not objective so I don't know if there is a point in this. I can't be seeing Oxlade, Shaqiri or that LFC have had more injuries than City and take your argument at face value.

If you were being objective, go back to the archives and see the City players that have been out this season. You can mention me again after that then I would ask you for the sufficient replacement for those players and how key those players are to the way City play.

Till then, it is a free world. Believe what you want.

Greatihex:
I agree with your point, but for your last paragraph, City benefitted as much during their own league wins.

LOL.

If they ask you now, you would go mute.

izzou:
[color=royalblue]Alison Becker got injured at the beginning of this season. He was even red carded sef

Kindly tell us how many games they lost or drew while he was away [/color]

I would reply you but you are not objective as evidenced by your previous post. So believe what you want amigo.

Tundesam923:
the double standard? Sheesh. Its just part envy and part awe over all we achieved.

You know this.

If we win, the team is too star-studded.

From the same mouths. The GOAT should have AD, Kawhi, D Russell etc.

From the same mouths Curry is a choker. He is useless. Klay is a 3 and D player. But as soon as they win. Too star-studded.

I tire.

BARAJ92:
Stones and Laporte. Injury to van Dijk and henderson will weaken that Liverpool team

It is Pep Guardiola. So they will never agree. As if City did not lose 4 games last season to LFC's only 1 when they still won the league.

Injury to a team depends on
1. If you have sufficient replacement for that player
2. If the player's role is significant to the team's overarching game

City for e.g can survive without Aguero (albeit he is better than Jesus) simply because Jesus is not a huge dropoff on Aguero.

But Otamendi is a HUMONGOUS dropoff on Laporte and is solely responsible for 2 City losses this season.

Allison Becker and VVD are pivotal to Liverpool's game. They will draw and lose one or two games were one or the other is missing. If both, they will lose multiple games.

Salah, Mane are key but you can survive if one or the other is missing. The output will definitely reduce but a 1-0 win is still a win.

So part of City's frailties this season so far is not just injury but injuries to KEY components. Another reason is motivation. Motivation to churn out 30+ wins again.

In the years United won the EPL back to back to back, you can look at their collection of points: 79, 91, 80 and 89, 87, 90. Pep got 276 points in his first 3 seasons. Which is better than anything United did in that time frame.

This season, RM and Barca will have the same points as City and Leicester after 21 games and they are 1 and 2 in La Liga. So City are competing meaningfully regardless of a slightly dampened level of motivation.

The only issue is...Liverpool are performing well-above the mean that is clearly unsustainable. It also helps that they seemed to have enjoyed favors that could have created chinks in their armour.

SmooshCHN:
It's funny how y'all slandered KD and the Warriors for 3yrs straight. The Warriors couldn't even breathe. They retired his jersey and already posted a thank you video but you guys said it was eye service. It was fake. Yes, it was wrong they left him out as every fan here agreed but now y'all suddenly acting like he was family member all along. It's not that deep but since it's the Warriors, the hate must fly.

You know how every they go. When we were here defending him night and day. At some point I remembered making a post telling them you cannot possibly love a player more than the supporters of the team he is representing. When some other Lilwayne relatives were saying Lebron is the best player in basketball. It was the KD haters like GSW fans that were saying it was KD. LOL.

Remember when GSW were also classless and vindictive for cutting Iggy because of the breakfast club interview?

Hustle oh make your team win 3 rings in 5 finals. So bad belleing and shedding crocodile tears will not be your job.

Greatihex:
you don't even know how to turn amala.
Go ask raumdeuter to amala turning lessons.





Do you also need an explanation to the word "contradict"?

Of all the functioning brains here..you amuse me the most.

LOL

Roland17:
Curry took the high road but from the embolden quotes, we know he shares the same sentiment KD shared about the offense, so what’s the problem?
To be honest, I can type explanations for each point you have made against KD and that is because they are not egregious to me, they are primarily emotional and sentimental because you have expectations of the specific words he should have used.
Isn’t it funny that Curry can talk about his preferred players but when KD expresses himself it is a problem.
The question about his departure will always be asked, no matter how much he deflects it, it would always come up. I don’t think he said anything out of bounds in the said interview that should be seen as disrespectful to the organization or Kerr. A player of his status has earned the right to express himself albeit respectfully.

GSW don't have the right to choose who they want in their video but KD has the right to be petty?

So if they ask SC the best SF he has ever played with in the NBA he should say Lebron since it is his choice?

Curry did not agree with KD. He took the high road. He did not want to appear petty. That is the difference.

The points KD made don't need to be egregious to you. They were not to me either. They were rubbish though and petty. That does not mean I agree with leaving him out of the video but that will be my explanation for why they did. There is a difference.

At the end of the day. If I put on rose-coloured glasses. Everything I see will be red. So KD can never be wrong to you and that is perfectly fine.

Ibime:
If Elruditor like, he should continue typing these long epistles from now till May, it will still END IN TEARS (hands in peppersoup)

Even if I type 2 lines it will be an epistle.

You are lucky I have lost Streetwise's number.

patrickmuf:
You have been drawing my POV into your discussion with Larride which he might not have subscribed to then. In another post back then, I clearly acknowledged that for the sake of argument we can sometime try to stretch things. I believed that Manchester United team then had the capability to compete with Pep's team after placing the respective players side by side but I admit I was overstretching it. For instance, I always believed Mata can be our Silva whilst Valencia and Walker were similar players. I thought Pogba could be our De Bruyne and Lukaku could score the goals we needed just as De Gea was superior to their keeper then but to be honest, I judged Mata using his output for Chelsea same way I did for Lukaku assuming that if he scored goals playing for a lesser talented Everton side, he could do better with Manchester United but no, things didn't quite work out as I thought...

The performance of the respective players over the past couple of years goes to show that I was wrong thus my position then shouldn't be used as a yardstick in your exchange with Larride who probably held a divergent opinion. I believe Pep's input improved the likes of Walker and to some extent Sterling but players like David Silva, Aguero, De Bruyne and Fernandinho were already established and formed the core of his team. Manchester United like many other clubs didn't have that core base or the players were already aging and I believe it's what Larride is trying to point out to you.

Like I said, you are courteous so I won't even try to shred this. What I will remind you is I asked you will anyone argue that Salah of Klopp and Mou are the same? Or KdB of Pep and Mou?

You cannot separate the role a manager played in making his players better. That the players you believed in did not achieve what you estimated about them does not make them less than what you estimated.

I submit it to you that if Pep coached Pogba and KdB was in ManU when Mou was there. You will argue that Pogba is better. So I will just let the issue rest.

raumdeuter:
Thinking about it, its not worth making him poorer

Even if you give him links he will argue with it. Like he was in the Bayern board room when decisions were being made.

larride:
50k and I will mention 5 that had over 15 apps.

Deal?

15 apps or starts?

Functioning brain should know the difference.

raumdeuter:
When Pep is involved there will always be an excuse

If he took Barcelona that finished trophyless to sextuple its because of Messi like Messi was dead before Pep got there

If he took Bayern to 3 league wins and 3 CL semi, he failed because he cannot win a treble since Bayern were always winning trebles every season before him

If he took City to 2 league titles breaking points records, its because he spent money on buying players why cant he use his own biological children to play, win all trophy all games if he is a good coach

He only needs to lose one game or trophy to prove he is a fraud. When he wins, they know the reason and it does not involve him. But when he loses, yea..it is solely his fault.

Greatihex:
that is a lie

LOL. Even when I have brought EVIDENCE more than ONCE.

Man will still argue with clear evidence. Because...narrative.

raumdeuter:
League table doesn't matter, points doesn't matter only subjective judgment of player abilities by larride matters

Functioning brain. The people in Harvard and co are dullards.

raumdeuter:
Pep took a team that finished 4th to 3rd and 1st twice in a row. Verdict not an achievement because of psychological effect of the sack

Pep took Bayern from Juup who was sacked but won a treble. No psychological effect. Pep failed at Bayern

You see how logical that is

We know them. I am only having a laugh watching him slap himself in the face. Even the CFC fans that were supporting have since abandoned him.

I am sure he is regretting ever venturing down this rabbit hole.

Do you know why I ignored the offer? Because you want to bring 1or 2 names that did not mop up 5 starts nor did they play any significant role in 2013/14 team.

Look for more names to type. If you ever stop...you'd have proven you were wasting your time.

Functioning brain.

But can't string one coherent sentence. LOL

This post or another one?