₦airaland Forum

patrickmuf:
Mangala was highly rated at Porto, all the top clubs were scouting him, that he didn't succeed at City doesn't mean he is a bad player.

Hardetayour:
Klay seems to have lost something cos I don't understand what's happening with him. It was looking like he was back after the Bulls game but I was wrong.

Durant handling the ball is an eye sore. Quin Cooks refusal to shoot sometimes until garbage time is annoying too.

Roland17:
Please read carefully and completely.

Firstly, let me state that it is unnecessary to knock down other coaches because there is an argument against Kerr. People forget that everything Kerr learned as a coach was because he played under Phil Jackson (Bulls) and Greg Popovic (Spurs). Kerr took these playing lessons to the NBA as a coach, tweaked, revised, adjusted and created his system. Let me remind people that he was never an assistant, neither was he around the court after he retired. He was an NBA analyst and before that, he had a management stint with the Sixers, I think. All he knew was from both coaches who I still regard as the greatest minds (alongside Chuk Daly and Jerry Sloan).

Now that I have that out of the way, It would be definitely unfair to argue that Kerr is an overrated coach, however, I will entertain the argument that he is not a great tactician/ strategist. I am not sure a lot of us understand how difficult it is to coach this team and that is where Kerr does not get a lot of credit. In comparison to Jackson, Kerr's style of leadership defers accountability to the players and the players make important decisions regarding themselves. Case in point, sources have it that the players made the decision to suspend Green without pay, not Kerr. The Warriors team was built to succeed with numbers, basically, numbers in strength and this is how Kerr has coached this team since he took over. Last season when KD went down, they struggled and when the postseason came, you could see the difference when the team was healthy. Individually the Warriors struggle but as a team, they are potent. You listen to what KD said after last night's game, "if you take a piece out of this team, we struggle".

My argument is different because Kerr is a rigid coach who plays without alternatives. He sticks to his original strategy, I am not sure if it is because he is stubborn or because he is scared of altering what has made the team successful. There have been games, particularly during the postseason when you expect adjustments because the issues are glaring but you still see the same strategy and sometimes the team loses (the famous choke finals series) and other times, the individual talent of the players pulls them through. There is also the angle that lesser unknown and unsuccessful assistants achieved great results when Kerr was away, albeit under his established system. Walton rode that luck and system into a head coaching position with the Lakers and truth be told, it is only a matter of time and not when before Walton is gone if the Lakers have championship ambitions. But again, while Walton and Brown may have used Kerr's system, there were moments during that run when Walton had to coach during timeouts and this did not require Kerr's input because timeout situations are different. Throughout Kerr's reign, he has not had to deal with the ego of the players spilling into bad blood between players. The Green v KD is my litmus test on how he handles this new situation because the players know there is an elephant in the room that may not be addressed until after the season.

The Warriors team was a great defensive unit before Kerr arrived but Kerr opened up the offense and exploited the already great defense with his philosophy of ball movement, rather than ISO basketball with Monta. I think the biggest piece is how ownership built this team when they chose to move away from Ellington and got Bogut from the Bucks. Bogut changed everything for that team going forward even though he did not stay healthy. Kerr has coached and succeeded with the Warriors for the most part while coaching his core, this is the first run he would be without his core and they are struggling and that is where I have my question about his rating as an all time.

Like @ A40 said, being considered or an argument about being 'overrated" does not mean you are not a good coach, it only means people want to see more in different scenarios to make a better argument for your case. Erik Spoelstra and Rick Carlisle are 2 coaches I respect because they are great tactical minds. Everyone was convinced the Heats would struggle after the Big 3 left but Spoelstra has found a way to keep that team competitive, in fact, he got the heat to the 3rd seed after Bron left and that is the biggest difference between him and Ty Lue who was a product of Lebron's greatness. Carlisle took a lesser talented Mavs side with a sick superstar to the finals and beat Bron and his assembly. I think it would be interesting to see how he coaches the Warriors after some of the core leave or slow down because of age. Last season, I was very clear that the Warriors have to manage Curry carefully after he turned 30 because he is the sticking point for this team.

Manutd19:
Eruditor will still say he isn't. Every man to his own opinion though.
Kerr isn't as good as advertised imo.
Yes, he changed the style of play when he got there and was blessed with players that fits perfectly.
However, dude is yet to do any special thing apart from that and always get away with criticism.

Hardetayour:
I don't see a reason for the argument on who's the better coach. Go back to last season when Steph didn't play the beginning of the playoffs. They beat Pop led spurs 4 1 and were leading the Pelicans before Steph came back from injury.

Kerr created a system around a player such that if the player doesn't play, his absence is felt.

Hardetayour:
Durant passing is very atrocious. How many turnovers does he her per game trying to pass the ball?

aliondo:
I keep bringing in Brad because for me,he is the closest in comparison with Kerr.I dont know whether you watch football(i.e soccer) but its like when you want to compare Pep with another coach in the EPL,the closest you can compare him with is Mourinho cos arguably,both are the best coaches in the EPL.

Now,Kerr might be better than Brad,no doubt. Afterall,he's got 3 rings as a coach and Brad is yet to win. The argument is this,what if (for e.g) Curry gets injured and does not feature this season again and even the playoffs,will the GSW still make a strong force like the previous seasons.
I used Brad cos he is the closest we have seen i.e when Kyrie got injured. Some could argue that if Kyrie was available and Hayward was still at its best,they could have beaten the Lebron led Cavs. Infact that was the match up,everyone was waiting to see and if they got past the Eastern finals,nobody knows what could have happened in the NBA finals.

The summary is this,Is it the all stars in the team that make Kerr a good coach?How will he perform if he does not have one of these all stars available(particularly Curry)??Just like what happened when Ty Lue was Cavs coach and almost everybody said it was Lebron that ran the show at Cavs. I feel thats why many are making the argument that he is overrated but to me he is not tho.

I just hope you get my point.

aliondo:
That's what i was trying to explain to Eruditor....For e.g Durant and Curry or maybe just Curry(cause you could argue the West is tougher than the East) gets injured till the season is over,will Kerr be able to spring up a good surprise temporary replacement to be able to take them through the playoffs and possibly NBA finals??Just as we saw what Brad did with Marcus Morris,Rozier and Brown when Hayward and later Kyrie got injured till the season was over...Who expected a Rozier to show up like that in the playoffs?

He was included in a squad by Deschamps in October 2016 but didn't feature against Bulgaria or Holland and hasn't been seen since.

Last week a story in French newspaper L'Equipe suggested his absence was due to the fact he was something of a 'loner' within the group and didn't always get on with teammates.

raumdeuter:
The stats you showed yesterday he has less interceptions than other defenders which is the key stat for defenders

When they concede its not its fault, when they keep clean sheet its kudos to VVD

airmark:
There's a reason some people called Barca, Messi fc, despite other players doing their best. When someone is pivotal to your improvement, no two ways about it.

When you see people tipping vvd as not only the best in epl, but saying he's one of the cbs in the world, then you should know he wasn't being rated because of his height.

Redknapp: “A moment of ingenuity and leadership like this highlights Van Dijk's value to Jurgen Klopp's side. With every week that passes, the £75m man is proving he is worth every penny.”

Neville: Milner for Liverpool , who have been outstanding. Virgil van Dijk: outstanding. But Van Dijk – worryingly – has impressed me more than anybody. He’s just a fantastic central defender.

Riise: “The best CB [centre-back] in the world is Virgil van Dijk.

“The difference he has made since he came. So calm. Can play. Strong in the air.

“Power! Pure power! Big fan! And he wasn’t worth the money (!) I bet every club wished they had him now.”

Carragher: ‘I knew Van Dijk was a good player, but he is better than what I thought,’

‘We’ve always said Liverpool can’t win the Premier League because of their defence, but now they have Van Dijk, who I think is the best centre back in the Premier League.

‘I can’t think of a defender off the top of my head that is better. He’s the man to step into the positon Vincent Kompany has had over the last four seasons as that leader and colossus.

‘They are very similar as players – there is nothing they lack. When Kompany was at his best three years ago, I didn’t think there was a centre-back that was better than him.

‘Over the next three or four years, if Liverpool could win a league or a Champions League, I think Van Dijk has the potential to actually go down alongside Alan Hansen if we’re talking about Liverpool’s best ever teams – that’s how good he is and how good he can become.

Before VVD joined Liverpool, I'm not sure these guys above had rated any of their cbs like this. Sane minds know what it means, only fools will still argue with what is obvious.

Liverpool fans already have a special song for him, if they have for other defenders, sing it, you can use raumdeuter's head as drum.

odizeey:
bros did he improve the defense or not

EarthXmetahuman:
follow the arguement.

People singled out vvd for being exceptional in liverpool defence just like people single out messi/ronaldo. that doesn't mean other defenders are not contributing to the defense liverpool is currently enjoying.

But as usual, because raumdeuter doesn't like to be wrong, he has to crap all over vvd and elivate some else while everyone goes crazy trying to prove someone that will never accept he is wrong wrong.

aliondo:
I didnt say you have a good bench tho..Was just rolling out the importance of a bench in winning a ring just as when you guys won your first ring...

I felt Kyrie was missed later tho during the playoffs especially against the Cavs.

Nice points for Kerr tho. Like i said,he is not overrated. But i am just looking at the NBA Coaches of the year awards list. What i don't understand is why some of these coaches did not win the NBA Coach of the year award every year if they were too great. I don't really think its by winning multiple championships,if not someone like Phil Jackson would have won the award like 5 times or more. I feel the whole performance of the team in the full regular season is largely considered.

I picked Brad tho because before Kyrie got injured,he was very instrumental and influential in Celtic's success during the regular season. To be honest, i thought Boston was done when he was injured but stellar performances from the team especially Rozier really surprised me. Brad's prints were largely shown on the team. Anyone could attest to that.

aliondo:
Concerning the current challenges ongoing with the Dubs,i think i agree with SmooshCHN that all the players have their different roles to play.
Iggy could be scrubs during the regular season but he is a vital piece come playoffs. Klay on the other hand could be inconsistent but when he shows up,he is difficult to guard. Durant of course is key with both stellar defense and offense plays. Draymond brings his doggedness and offers moral support to the team. For Curry,what more can i say??Arguably the most valuable player in the team. The bench is also not left out which i feel was one of the ingredients in the Dubs first Championship ring.

As for Kerr,i dont think he is overrated but i will pick Brad Stevens over him...

Nostradamus:
Hey guys,let's make a preview of the following games and predict the winners(let's make it fun)


Charlotte Hornets vs Boston Celtics


Philadelphia 76ers vs Phoenix Suns


Detroit Pistons vs Cleveland Cavaliers


Atlanta Hawks vs los Angeles Clippers


New Orleans Pelicans vs San Antonio Spurs


Memphis Grizzlies vs Dallas Mavericks


Milwaukee Bucks vs Denver Nuggets

Nostradamus:
Lebron explode against miami.51 points. wtf is going on in the dub nation?

Afolabi6046:
why are you sweating on something you didn't even start

Once again, you can't displace someone that finished outside the top four the season before. "Arsenal was a hot team before Leicester displaced them in 2015". That's pretty weird because Leicester displaced Chelsea actually.


Liverpool made 2nd twice in 10yrs, so making 2nd is fvcking new to them. They mostly make 6,7,8. They are unbeaten after 12 games in ages because they have managed to unusually conceded just 5 goals and that's because they now have Klopp, VVD and Allison. I've repeated that before but the hot. blood flowing in ur body noh allow you look well. By this time last season, they were scoring more goals but conceding too, now they have reduced scoring and conceding. Figure it out.


Now, if you still don't understand my unchanging narrative, please don't quote me again, i'm sure you're not that jobless. This one is looking hard for someone to correct, Raumdueter's prodigy

Afolabi6046:
2008/2009 and 2013/2014, those were the two seasons they were second. Liverpool was mostly 6,7,8. Something has changed.

Afolabi6046:
I've referenced that season in everything i've said so far.


but that was many years ago, Liverpool has since turned to a team that consistently finish outside the top 4. Klopp changed that. Liverpool is known as a team that consistently concede and fumble against small teams. Now that has changed. Ask yourself why?

At this time last season and 2009, were they unbeaten? Why?

Liverpool is the same thing that conceded about 6 goals against Arsenal last season and 8 against City. Bournemouth don score 4 against Liverpool before.


I'm not a dullard and i actually watch football with my eyes, Liverpool went like 3 or 4 games without conceding a goal this season. Why?

Afolabi6046:
If you open your eyes well, you would notice i actually said Liverpool made 2nd nine in the 09/10 season, what error are you talking about again?

Afolabi6046:
You're calling me a dullard because i'm trying to explain to the guy why Liverpool have improved under Klopp with VVD? Cool enough

My response to what you quoted again was that you can't say City just displace someone that was 7th or 6th the season before. He's making it sound like what Liverpool is doing now is not new, which is not true.

Afolabi6046:
The one with grammar issue is actually you and the guy....now lemme be explicit


Benitez was 2nd ten years ago, after that Pool came i think 7th and 8th before City won the league. How can you displace someone that wasn't even contending for the trophy. Since then Liverpool never smelled top four again till Klopp's second season. They have never been a force, the real ones are United, Chelsea and City. Do you understand now. Liverpool is sitting 2nd again since 2009 but with 5 goals conceded so far because they now have Klopp, VVD and Allison. Now that's the "bone of contention"

Afolabi6046:
The one with grammar issue is actually you and the guy....now lemme be explicit


Benitez was 2nd ten years ago, after that Pool came i think 7th and 8th before City won the league. How can you displace someone that wasn't even contending for the trophy. Since then Liverpool never smelled top four again till Klopp's second season. They have never been a force, the real ones are United, Chelsea and City. Do you understand now. Liverpool is sitting 2nd again since 2009 but with 5 goals conceded so far because they now have Klopp, VVD and Allison. Now that's the "bone of contention"

BlueRayDick:
Why are u changing goal post now? Your initial post made it sound like Liverpool are only second at this stage because VVD joined them and made them tick, whereas Liverpool spent most of the season on the top spot during Suarez's last season under Brendan Roger's when Suarez was blazing hot before Man city displaced them eventually.

Afolabi6046:
in the last 9yrs, Pool made 2 just once, they like 6,7,8 gan....that changed until Klopp came and Klopp sef only made 4 twice, how did City displace Liverpool again, as if they were winning EPL back to back

Afolabi6046:
ManCity displaced who? when has Liverpool ever been a force to reckon with? Chelsea has won 5 EPLs since since Liverpool last won any English trophy. Do you know what you're saying. Klopp has successfully brought them back to a little bit of limelight they're enjoying now, when last dem comot EPL R16 before Klopp came. They are still unbeaten this season because they have Allison and VVD, simple