₦airaland Forum

^ and does dat matter if i know or not, and how does dat change the fact dat dat igbo-ukwu is older than ife? so since u are the prof, so u can always add where "alok ikom" falls into the graph.

lol, na so dis igbo-ukwu matter dey pain una? u dey craze.
na me add igbo-ukwu join ife arts? na me be the curator wey say na igbo-ukwu prove say ife na african tradition? u see me for there? or u see anywhere wey dem write my name for the muzoo? na devil go punish u, ewe!

ok then, nigeria should be renamed abokiria, and henceforth we should all be called abokis. is that cool with u?

lol, so u honestly believe because we speak different languages is the root of our problems? and when we adopt one language, we will all be united against our so-called enemies and our problems would be resolved? that’s a rather simplistic approach.

and u are propagating this because you don’t like the english definition of the word “black”. so how about you just stop calling yourself black, and start identifying as brown or yellow or whatever color you deem fit?  don’t you think that will be better instead of adopting another language entirely and doing away with yours?

and oh, i guess u dont mind identifying as nigerian even though the word nigeria was derived from the word niger which is another european-word meaning black? so maybe we should also rename the entire country as abokiria derived from the hause word aboki meaning friend?

so because they are spoken by more people makes them better?

We must change our official language to a better language. Maybe hausa or Swahili.

why not igbo?

Rgp92:
Give me a fvcking prove Are you trying to say igbo ukwa founded ife? https://www.city-data.com/forum/members/jill61-603505-albums-emoticons-pic41850-laughing-hysterically.gif

well, im only using the same logic you used of how ife founded bini. im yet to see any proof apart from some dated art forms.

Rgp92:
What if Oduduwa fell from heaven? Jesus christ woke up from death after 3 days.

yeah, and not only that, jesus was also conceived by a virgin  and he died a virgin only to wake up three days later and then disappeared again. sounds like a "true" nollywood home video

and that brings us back to square one, because you are using art as the basis of who founded who even though binis are not desecedants of both nok and ife. however, you had no problem in saying nok founded ife, and in turn, ife founded bini coz i guess ife art was dated as older? abi?

so between that time nok transfered to ife, there was igbo-ukwu which has been dated older than ife, so in turn, igbo-ukwu founded ife. or unless u want to tell me nok only transferred to ife and and not to igbo-ukwu.

so where did igbo-ukwu get it from? or it fell to them from heaven, just like how oduduwa fell from heaven?

maybe u are the one who needs to learn history coz binis are neither descendants of nok nor ife. so how did u arrive at that conclusion that it was nok who passed it down to ife and then to bini and other yoruba groups, and totally excluding igbo-ukwu who happened to be close by?

Ife and igbo ukwu are completely different.

and so are the others. so since it is age u are using, it is:


----------->Oyo and many yoruba groups
Nok ---> igbo-ukwu ----> ife---->
----------->Bini

Rgp92:
----------->Oyo and many yoruba groups
Nok ---> ife---->
----------->Bini

wrong!

                                                   ----------->Oyo and many yoruba groups
Nok ---> igbo-ukwu ----> ife---->
                                                   ----------->Bini

tufia, i can see ur assumptions are as ret@rded as those of fabrinus. so u can kiss my azz

ok,  i agree!

but the "naturalism" of ife art that you keep talking about are just some pieces depicting the ooni (i think), and those may have been done by artists who preferred the natural look to the "abstract" look coz like i said earlier, art is also influenced by the individuality of the artist.

however, naturalism was not only depicted in ife art, i think ife just had more pieces of that nature in the british museum.  but most of the other ife pieces are quite abstract.

so what exactly did fabrinus think that was a fact that should even be taken seriously? he saw some african arts, he was so overwhelmed and likened it to arts of greece. but when there was nothing to prove how greece would have influenced ife, he then thought it must have been a lost mythical euro island that sunk somewhere along the coast of nigeria, and the survivors migrated to ife to produce the art? isnt that plain ret@rded? im sure the ooni must have also called him a ret@rd in yoruba for making such a claim.

anyway, i think the reason why the museum placed the two igbo pieces along those of ife is to help further disprove fabrinus ret@rded assumptions. and since the igbo-ukwu ones are older, it makes it easier to believe that ife was influenced by igbo and not by some greek tribe from a lost mythical euro island.

lol, i am not saying they are not sophisticated, or that they are not breath-taking. all im saying is that fabrinus knew they were african but thought they were european-influenced. even the bini arts, were thought at a point to be made by the portuguese because europeans thought africans were not capable of such a technology. so that was why fabrinus identified them with greek and ancient european tribe. but the igbo-ukwu brasses which were found much later disproved all that because they were way older than european contact. so that was what the curator was pointing out and why those two igbo pieces were placed along ife pieces --- to disprove fabrinus assumptions, that they were not euro-influenced but indigenous.

lol, how can he think they were european when they dont even look european. he knew they were african but thought it was european-influenced. that is, africans would not have had the technology to make such an art without europeans. so they doubted that the technology was not indigenous . . . but the igbo-ukwu brasses which were more older, older than european contact with this part of africa, proved it was indigenous, and that europeans had nothing to do with it.

nah, he didnt think they were european brasses, he knew they were african but thought they were european influenced. but the igbo-ukwu brasses which were much older, proved they were of african tradition.

lol, lakal, since u are now quoting yourself, allow me to quote myself also.

ok. so igbo-ukwu influenced ife.

amor4ce:
https://www.vmfa.state.va.us/uploadedImages/VMFA/Exhibitions/Dynasty_et_Divinity/12-beaded-torso_LG.jpg

https://galerie-herrmann.com/arts/art3/Ife_Benin/18_Bueste_120J/Ife_Bust_gr.jpg
Notice the one-pack (yes, no 6-packs!)

https://www.vmfa.state.va.us/uploadedImages/VMFA/Exhibitions/Dynasty_et_Divinity/02-figure-of-king_LG.jpg

Present your evidence so for peer review so we can analyze your logic.

so what evidence are u looking for exactly? igbo and ife dont dress alike, and do not have same facial marks. but this was what the curator had to say:

"It was so beautiful and wonderful that Fabrinus didn’t think it could have been made by an African. He thought it was of Greek or ancient European origin. He identified it with Poseidon, with the god of the sea. He identified the Kingdom of Ife with the lost Kingdom of Atlantis, and he wrote all of this up. And indeed, it was published in the illustrated London news over there in 1910.   What happened in order to disprove all if this, was over there where those people are, two small brasses excavated in 1939 by Taistan Shaw -- Igbo-Ukwu brasses, one is of an elephant head, and those are about a thousand years old, and they prove that this was an autonomous African tradition"

and what other evidence are u looking for? isnt that enough proof?

lol, lakal, you are drifting. and havent you already said ife art is older than that of benin? did you see me argue? and im not earger to prove anything, im only responding to what i saw on the video, and then asking question. but you are dragging benin into it out of desperation, i suppose?

anyway, the reason those two peices were placed there was because they are older and according to the curator, it proved ife could not have been influenced by greek or a far away ancient european tribe but one that is close by.  so can u swallow your pride now, and let the "experts" win?

im not an expert but i know that for sure the style of art is not going to be the same.  igbo-ukwu, ife, and benin all have different styles coz the style of art are either influenced by the culture of the people or the personality/individuality of the artist. but the main purpose those two pieces were placed there by the "experts", was to prove that ife was influenced by igbo-ukwu.

ok. so igbo-ukwu influenced ife.

lol, really? u didnt see any? are u sure u watched the video at all?

anyway, watch from 4:00, you will see the two pieces.

the second one.

^^ it is quite interesting that the two igbo-ukwu pieces in that video are older that those of ife.  so maybe it was igbo that influenced ife?

and btw, if we are to speak on insecurity,  i think you should go look in the mirror coz when you were talking from the side of your mouth or should i say typing with your crooked fingers that the benin monarchy was started by the yoruba, i didn’t argue with you.

but when i responded with the simple fact and truth that the first ooni of ife was a bini man and he instituted the monarchy, you told me it was a lie and dragged it into an argument.

if you weren’t so insecure, why didn’t you just ignore? i guess you don’t know the meaning of the word.

i guess i shouldnt have used "score", but instead should have said what point does that "make" coz your response was pointless.

tpia@:
someone familiar with yoruba dialects would understand the difference of odu'uwa.

and what point does that score?

welcome.

i was actually here before you, so that is the wrong greeting. what you should say is obo'wa

i'm referring to verifiable and objective patterns and history, not subjective, feel-good ones based on half truths and vanity.

hmmm, that already sounds subjective to me.

odu'uwa is a different syntax, as you can see.

and that actually makes it more edoid, you should have tried oodua

tpia@:
highly doubtful and only a fairly recent concocted story.



going by oral history, tradition and patterns of migration to say the least, oduduwa [who btw wasnt the first ooni in ife] was from another yoruba or yoruboid group somewhere.

you're free to disagree with this without being rude.

we already know yorubas interacted with their eastern neighbours in ancient times.

there are several oral histories and patterns of migration, so it depends on the one you choose to base your opinion on.

and who was the first ooni of ife? and what was oduduwa's role in ife?

there is no way oduduwa would have been from been yoruba, the name oduduwa itself edoid.

the benin monarchy itself is from yoruba.

. . . and the first ooni to reign in ife who instituted the ife monarchy was a bini man.