₦airaland Forum

what da heck going on here?

shdemidemi: The Old Testament means old covenant, we are under a new covenant with God now at the death of Jesus. We are not saved by the same gospel that saved Abraham, neither are we saved by the gospel that saved Israel, we are saved by the gospel of Christ in this dispensation.

Hebrews 8

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

alexleo: The passage in the new testament is the gospel of grace which we in this dispensation have received and should practice.

Plain and simple, the new testament is clearly different from the old. Why would God bring a new covenant if the old was to be for all ages?

Mr Alex is a good man for da topic.it's only in Judaism you see such preachers not in Christianity.such kinds of preacher must b aggressively stopped.

Bidam: This is just your carnal nature talking,as far as am concerned you re the ONLY spiritual baby on this forum.Grow up pal!

okay,I Will grow up sir.

Itsfacts: Why is nairaland allowing guys that are on their period to post? This girl acts like no one cares about her.

no,as if u own nairaland or is d periodic blood staining your brain n conscience?

Frosbel.

What do you understand by this verse: Therefore FROM NOW ON we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, yet NOW we KNOW Him in this way NO LONGER . Thank you.

italo: @ Tgirl4real,

The message of the cross has not been forgotten by the Catholic Church. It's what we are taught day in day out. You might want to join us.

It's only an advice. I dont think you'll take it but I must say it.

Cheers.

join who? Seriously?

Bidam: This is rather sad and pathetic for some one who claims "to be born of the spirit and died to the law" to be talking like this.It's like you have never learnt anything from the book of Romans bro..Take time and study it once again.

as for u,I know u hv not recovered from da defeat n how I laid u flat on da other thread.I know u can't contend what I wrote over there because u didn't expect such dats y u still brought da pain up here.do u care to know y I go d other side to use aggressive words at times?it is because here is a public forum n some men act like a babysitter,pple like dat need aggression.there are 4 of u judaizers I hv spotted here including yourself n pygru n am only at war with u guys when u teach Judaism to pple of d christ.any other thing I hv no business with u guys.as for u taking side with pygru,it doesn't mean anything to me,think of it.an adult just because he wanna bring up a thread,typing rubbish.he should b babysitting if he has no job n needs aggression to know how to behave in public forum.it has nothing to do with book of Romans or whatever.

Pygru:
Ignored!

did u really ignore me?is replying by typing 'ignored' actually ignoring someone?now tell me how what I said isn't true of u.are u schooled at all?you called up a topic n what did u say?just typed ',,,,,,,'.dat's all u did.what then is yr contribution?aren't u carnal by such nonsense?I went thru all yr post n they all useless as far as dis forum is concerned.if u dont hv a job,y not go be a babysitter man.I hate when men act like kids still breastfeeding.finally,y did u offer to follow me?u better unfollow cos u will always get my reply whenever u act like a kid.

Pygru: ,,,,,,

you must be a demon incarnate unto your master the devil.what did u say by the above quote?the other day u changed from male to female n now u're none.i can see demons working in yr brain n walking into your heart already living with u.u are a waste to humanity n an illiterate dumb fool.i don't see yr usefulness in life n this forum going thrru all yr past post.

seunlayi: I JUST HOPE THAT SOME OF THE COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD WILL NOT MAKE SOME PEOPLE TO MISS HEAVEN.

you must be out of yr mind for the above statement.u think u can come to the public forum n threaten pple?didn't u just said everyone is entitled to their own opinion?are u saying pple that Christ died for will miss even because they say the truth u don't agree with?you must be out of your God given mind.you better keep quiet if u have nothinng meaningful to say here.

seunlayi: Get out ke! is it from nairaland or the thread? FlorishG, everybody is entitled to his or her opinion.

yes,u entitled to yr own opinion but when an adult start thinking n talking like babies,then they shld be babysitting not come on public forum like this.

^Go thru all the words of Christ on da cross(7 of them) n let the new testament do exegesis on those words and you will perfectly understand the 'message' of the cross.it is contained in the last words of Christ,revealed to the apostles by the resurrected christ.that's an assignment for u.

frosbel: you know what a fraudster is , right ?

very correct!

Clear waters: At times i get tired of all these religious things...
I haven't seen any one to explain properly to me why wearing earring is a sin...
If they are not trying to drain your pocket, then they are trying to make you follow a law they dont understand themselves....

blessed are u among all.

aikeron: Cursed is the man who tries to please God by obeying the laws, for no one is justified by the law in the sight of God (Gal.3 vs 10-11).
Through Christ is preached to us the forgiveness of sins, and by Him everyone who believes is JUSTIFIED from ALL THINGS from which you COULD NOT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW OF MOSES.(Acts 13 vs 38-39)

Deeper life please wake up,why put soo much emphasis on the laws christ has come to ease us out of through His finished works on the cross. A man who is born-again cannot and should not be judged by such traditional parameters as bng used by Deeper life church. I support John n his wife as long as thr salvation and relatnship with God remain intact.

a man is only obedience n responsive to a law ONLY when he is alive,Romans 7:1.when he is dead, obedience n responses to an existing law keeping is null n void.Romans 7:4-6

tete7000: Man, there is not wrong in Christians engaging on useful dialogue. Christianity is not military institution where because somebody who is your elder or minister did anything, you just swallow it. The same bible you quoted says "Test everything and see which is the truth". The scripture encourages us to refute every error and heresy with the "double edged sword - word of God". What we are discussing here is if the Deeper Life doctrine concerning the issue in question are in tune with scripture and as long that is done within the description of christian modesty and honesty, there is nothing wrong with it.

bless u love! These pple thinks because some are leaders they cannot be touched or spoken against when they err.they religiously quote touch not my anointed as if we are under d old agreement.every mouth that doesn't speak the truth even when it involves their leaders must n shut.

Pygru: I tell you say I be Male

u know what happens to all liars?

Frosbel.Anytime you say d truth which men hates,these pple like pygru often jump on u.I hv noticed that.Just go n sit down n let me help u chase yr adversaries out of here because many of them are scripture empty,they just quote it religiously.

Pygru: Numbers 12:7-8
King James Version (KJV)
7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithfulin all mine house.
8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of theLordshall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

don't start this nonsense today.

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6

But now, by dying to what once bound us
The apostle draws a conclusion on the marriage contract here, BUT NOW and by dying to what (the law) that ONCE bound us to the marriage covenant (by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, Romans 7:2); we are NOW release, set free FROM THE LAW under the Mosaic system so we can serve in the new way of the Spirit of God AND NOT IN THE OLD WAY (the old marriage covenant). And yet, some Judaizers wants to mix the old ways with the new ways of serving the LORD.


we have been released from the law...shows that Paul was here identifying himself as a former disciple of the law, thus including himself with the Jewish Christians to whom he addressed this appeal. Newness of the spirit ... oldness of the letter ... These phrases refer to the life "in Christ Jesus" on the one hand, and to life under Moses' law on the other. "Oldness of the letter" is a reference to exactly the same thing that that was signified by the use of "in the flesh" in the preceding verse. Christians (Jews and Gentiles both) are completely free from the the law of Moses that once or used to hold the marriage covenant between God and his people only we do not use our freedom to satisfy the old flesh or old nature of sin desire.

For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. Romans 7:5

Under the law, all fruits that was bore always died, they are never alive. Imagine a woman always pregnant and everytime she goes to the labour room, her child always dies. That is what the law produced! The inability of the Mosaic system to give the worshiper any valid victory over sin was due: (1) to the fact that no forgiveness was possible, it was the law of sin and get death or die or be stoned to death (2) that there was no impartation of the Holy Spirit, and (3) that there was utterly no justification in the keeping of its precepts. No wonder that Peter referred to it as a yoke.

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. Romans 7:4

you also died to the law through the body of Christ
This is the whole purpose of the statement of verse one and the analogy of verses two and three. To those who know the law he was talking to. That when Christ died (through the body of Christ), you also died to the law. Only by death can you be free from the law that is binding on you and you have died to the law, not responsive nor alive to it. The body of Christ represent Christ according to the flesh and the risen Christ is the another to which the church is married to to(that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead). There's a new marriage right there says the apostle.

Thus, it was the annulment of God's marriage contract with Israel through the death of Christ that abrogated and terminated that entire system, finally and irrevocably. The "Jews were put to death by the body of Christ"; and, from this, he reasoned that the Jews were free of the law of Moses because of their own death through the body of Christ.

The death of Christ (God come in the flesh) meant that all things whatsoever that pertained to God's relationship with Israel (viewed scripturally as a marriage contract), including the law of Moses, circumcision, the sacrifices, and the whole theocratic system perished on the cross of Jesus and were buried in the new tomb of Joseph of Arimathea; and don't forget to include the sabbath day in all that. Thus, not even Israel, much less Christians, had any further spiritual benefit to be procured through keeping the religious regulations of the Old Testament. God was free of all prior obligations resulting from the covenants with Israel, free to be married to another, to the church as the new wife; but this meant that Israel was also free of any further obligation or benefit in the law.

Paul thus drew the conclusion from the premises stated above. In the relationship of the new institution, which is the church or bride of Christ, to God, it was utterly incongruous to suppose that any of that old system pertained to the new relationship, especially in view of the total rejection of Christ by the old institution. Christians, whether of Jewish or Gentile descent, had nothing, either of benefit or blessing, in the old system. For Jewish Christians, Christ died to annul their old contract with God; thus they were free to be united with Christ as a portion of his bride the church, this being the import of the words, "that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God." Bear which fruit, in every marriage, there is expected for the wife(the church as the new wife now) to bear children which the bible often refer to as fruit. In this spiritual truth, that we might bear fruit of the Spirit as stated in Galatians. That why you read, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness...Against such things there is no law". Galatians 5:22-23 Notice, the faithfulness which Israel was UNfaithful to the old husband that died...against such there is no law.

For Gentile Christians, their freedom from the old system was also complete. Not only had it never applied to them; but additionally, the law was made repugnant to them because under the law, Christ himself was made a curse (Deuteronomy 21:23); and the epic fact of Jesus' suffering "without the gate" (Hebrews 13:12) symbolized the total dissociation of Jesus Christ together with all spiritual blessings in him from everything connected with the law of Moses. How utterly unthinkable it was that true believers in Christ should have any regard for a system that crucified him, making him a curse, and casting him without the camp and beyond the pale! The most astounding failure of the law of Moses was seen in that very thing, that at last it cast forth upon what amounted to the city dump, the holy Christ himself, thus finalizing and sealing forever the utmost incompatibility between the law and Jesus Christ.

By definition, to be "in Christ" is to be absolutely beyond and apart from the law of Moses and everything in it. Christians, all of them, Jewish and Gentile, are recipients of unbounded freedom in Christ who rose from the dead, to bring forth fruits of righteousness in him.

So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man. Romans 7:3

Why would Christ call them 'adulterous generation' under the law; Matthew 16:4? Because their husband is not dead yet and they are gone adultery. On that ground, their husband can divorce them but because their husband loves them so much, he would always forgive their adulterous act until their husband finally dies to terminate the marriage covenant under the law that binds them. The metaphoric meaning of adultery as the intimate alliance of God with the people of Israel in a marriage in which Israel went into idolatry and are said to commit adultery or play the harlot; and said to be unfaithful to God, unclean and apostate.

Again, it was repeated by the apostle that BUT IF HER HUSBAND DIES, SHE IS RELEASED FROM THE LAW AND IS NOT AN ADULTERESS IF SHE MARRIES ANOTHER MAN.God is the one that holds the law and knows how to terminate it. Paul could have selected other grounds for affirming that God had DISannulled the marriage contract with Israel, such as Israel's wanton disobedience and unfaithfulness but Paul's choice of the astounding fact of God's death in the person of his Son was a far more appropriate expression of the absolute termination that had fallen upon Judaism.

Israel's wanton rebellion against God had come at last to full fruit when Christ himself was slain by them; and therefore, as far as the whole system of Judaism is concerned, it has exactly the same status as a marriage contract after the husband's funeral. Christ as God risen from the dead is married to another, the new bride being his church (Ephesians 5:22-33); and what a preposterous thing it would be to suppose that the new wife should abide by the terms of the marriage contract of the old wife. Devastatingly, Paul removed all grounds upon which the Judaizing teachers in the church might seek to impose portions of the law upon Christians.

For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. Romans 7:2

What is the apostle teaching here using a natural law of marriage to convey a spiritual truth or doctrine? There is a legal binding by the law when a man and woman are married but when one died, the other is free and released from that binding of marriage law and free to marry another. These is true in marriage law. Now, flip the other side of the coin and let's reveal the spiritual doctrine here. Regarding divorce, the Holy Scriptures teach that marriage is dissolved: (1) by death; (2) by adultery; and (3) by desertion, the latter not being strictly considered as ANOTHER ground beyond that given by Christ, but rather as prima facie evidence of the existence of ground (2), that of adultery.

Bearing in mind Paul's purpose in this paragraph of showing that Christians are no longer under Moses' law, the thrust of his words is simple and dramatic. In the Old Testament, God represented himself as being a husband to Israel and the relationship between them and God as a marriage contract or covenant.

It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. Jeremiah 31:32

Also, Israel under the marriage contract with the LORD which they are bonded by the law of Moses under that contract or agreement had also committed adultery (Isaiah 57:3; Jeremiah 3:8, Hosea 4:15 etc) and hereby giving the ground for the LORD to terminate and dissolve the marriage with them according to the words of Christ. Therefore, you will hear Christ call them 'adulterous generation' Matthew 16:4.

BUT IF HER HUSBAND DIES, SHE IS RELEASED FROM THE LAW THAT BINDS HER TO HIM(in the marriage contract or covenant).
Anytime you read 'but' in the word, it means, flip to the other side of the coin for there're always two sides. That marriage contract or covenant is no longer in force, for God died to Israel in the person of his Son upon Calvary! That nullified the relationship between God and Israel. Thus, God is represented as a husband whose death has broken the ties (law) that bound him to the wife Israel, not merely leaving Israel free to be united to another (Christ), but also leaving the old ties (the law of Moses, etc.) without any meaning or validity at all!

Do you not know, brothers and sisters--for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? Romans 7:1

Here in the 7th chapter,the apostle began to speak to 'those who know the law', in and out. To those who understand the law,the law of Moses or any kind of law that exist under heaven. If someone don't 'know' the mosaic law, such person will not understand what the apostle is teaching here.What is he teaching? The basis of this statement is further explained as a doctrine for both marriage to the church and it explains a spiritual doctrine of divorce from the law of moses. Whatever law that exist only has binding or authority over anyone as long as that person is alive. When that person dies, there is no law binding on that person no more for a dead person cannot respond or obey an existing law. That is the meaning of the phrase, "ONLY AS LONG AS THAT PERSON LIVES" The apostle would soon establish a spiritual doctrine to his audience, to those who know the law. Those who know and understand the law understand one thing and that is, the law is ONLY BINDING TO ANYONE AS LONG AS THAT PERSON LIVES. When the person is dead,there's no law to obey or respond to.

Bidam: Never mind!!"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

what!it doesn't matter.it's too late for you.when i gave you the opportunity to teach the spiritual truth contain in a little verse.u fumbled and mess it all up.now sit,relax,read n enjoy the liberty in christ.the fact that u can't understand it doesn't mean pple have not gone ahead of you.i know u gone learn reading what i will teach in your secret heart but your pride will never let you say it is truth.i will post the explanation verse by verse thereafter.

Shdemidemi.I think we should hold on with this exegesis for a while.allow me to deal with this guys first on this forum,all these judaizers on this forum are in trouble from now on.this mr. Bidam has provoked me now.am gone start a war on this forum against them all judaizers on the forum.

Bidam: sorry bro you have no case against my water-tight post.

you call that rubbish you wrote a water-tight post?you must be word empty,spirit,soul n body.i hv told you,i will reply fully.y don't u wait for my reply before you start running your empty mouth on a internet.don't u know you children are going to read whatever you write in in years to come?

Bidam: for your info i quoted acts 24 where Paul was actually rounding up his ministry and testifying about believing the law and the prophets, if you don't understand that simple statement of paul then you need help.

i thought u are a warrior in bible teaching n me not superior either but there're things i can say here n it will be hard for u to understand.only God can give u such deep teaching as God had bestowed on me like paul d apostle.i have stayed with the holy spirit for a while(not with men) because men will always teach their own things but the spirit teaches the deep things of God that is hard to understand like peter said of paul.now,on you quoting paul when he was rounding up his ministry,do u know there are some things even paul didn't 'know' or understand at certain stage of his ministry?Bidam,it is the spirit that searches n teaches the deep things of God that paul didn't teach or know.i give you an example of what paul didn't know fully but desire to know.Philippians 3:10 is one of them.think about that!therefore again,the book of acts of apostle is a transitional book.

Bidam: I am really sick and tired of you inferring things that are not written in scriptures.For you to show me where the law was abolished now come become wahala chei.

Hahahahahahaha.Look at you.I will definitely teach this romans 7:1-6 verse by verse and your eyes will be opened.again,that verse alone destroyed you n your judaizers argument n y'all law keepers.i will break it down for you.nothing is being inferred in those verse.you just don't understand.look,paul always use a phrase such as verse one when he will says:you that wants to keep the law,do you KNOW what the law says?apparently i have fought judaizers in the other forum i was before coming to this forum n am here fully now.you pple that teach d keeping of moses law,you know nothing about the law n yet you wanna teach it.i will use the same law u think you know to tear down all your judaistic teaching.just hold on for me in a while.am gonna reply you this first n then show u what u don't 'understand' in those verse,you just reading but your understand is null n void.

Bidam: You really must be a spiritual fool to say the law was abolished here.

just when i thought of slowing down on my insult then you who think u are spiritual starts yours.can you see that flesh lives with all of us?allow the one you say is spiritual fool to take u up a little.i knew you empty n there's nothing good that comes out of judaizers like you.i had knew from the day one i came here pple like u are empty,just making noise n polluting the internet with nonsense talks.i told u to cool down n read that verses well n see what doctrine is taught there but your empty head can't bring out any spiritual doctrine from there n yet u think i don't hv nothing to say on those verse.verses 1-6 is a doctrine and verse 7 forward is another etc.the law is null n void n those verses n when u swallow your pride you will learn, not in the stupid way you doing it.

Bidam: That verse even buttressed my points further that we can't live by the written codes of the law and Christ sacrifice has made this laws to be written in the tablets of our heart.ofcos you failed to read my post to really understand that the new covenant is that the laws will be written in our hearts not the tablet of stones given to moses.Even here paul is stating emphatically the trouble he has with sin as an unbelieving jew.Did you fail to see where paul declares for i delight in the law of the lord according to the inward man? HE was actually describing his conflict between the inner and the outer man. If you stop only at romans 1-6. You will miss the whole point of paul,that is the problem i have with you guys, always cherry picking one scripture without reading everything as a whole.Go read romans 7:25 to understand the final conclusion of paul.Paul said in 1 Cor 15:31 "...... I die daily".
Instead following his inclination, Paul did God's will, even though crucifying his nature. Paul is a mature christian and He obey God's law. This is what we called Christian character perfection.

you are beggining to shift the goal post here.again, the new covenant is totally different from the old and the law is part of the old covenant that is done away with.stop jumping like a frog,dats y you often miss step by step explanation.

Bidam: Even if i go into a full exegesis of that scripture your stiff neck attitude won't change.SMH!

simply because you know nothing nor understand nothing about that verses and you just proved it.you're empty on what is being said there in romans 7:1-6.what exegesis can u then make of it?can you give what u don;t have?i just gave you an opportunity to do your exegesis nonsense but what did u come up with?outright nothing!complete emptiness!you should be ashamed of yourself Mr.Bidam.i won;t start my insult here again,i promise but now,i will start to tear your judaistic teaching down n expose your fraudulent ways.trust me.

Image123: it's a conclusion duh. "We conclude". The points have already been made. i reiterate, this thread is not an expose or commentary. There are many great and wonderful commentaries out there please, you are not being coerced to read. The aim of the thread is stated in the OP, salient points.

what salient point have you made so far?if you can't give a concise 'salient' point then i don't think u shld be doing this.i'm just waiting until the start to get to the doctrinal verses n chapters if at all u gonna finish this though.romans isn't a book u just be stating salient point with da heavy stuffs in there.