₦airaland Forum

Makschinchin:
You quoted Luke 14:26 to back up this claim of yours. You should have continued down to verse 33 to get better knowledge of what Jesus is saying.. But you chose to pick up just one verse and take the true meaning out of it like you always do..

Let's see what Luke 14:26-33 says;

Luke.14.26 - "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
Luke.14.27 - And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Luke.14.28 - For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it--
Luke.14.29 - lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,
Luke.14.30 - saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
Luke.14.31 - Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?
Luke.14.32 - Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.
Luke.14.33 - So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.


Before we continue, don't forget what God said in Exod.20.12 - "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.

So, how can you possibly claim Jesus meant "outright hatred for one's family and oneself" in Luke 14:26, even after verses 27-33 explains it further??

See this guy, you failed to explain how you understand Luke 14 :26 and very shameful of it, and now you are clinging on verse 33.

Even the verse 33 buttress my points. It stated that you should forsake all before you can follow Jesus. The all includes your parent, siblings, spouse and children.

Just in case you do not
know, forsake mean to abandon, leave (permanently), or renounce.

These mean you have to forsake your parents in the village, and without proper care, let them die. Isn't that a form of hate?

How can you abandon something you love? How can you leave (permanently) what you cherish? These are all form of hatred for you cannot forsake what you love.

On another note, honoring is not opposite of hate. That you honor your Government doesn't mean you love them.

Makschinchin:
If you must follow Christ you must give him your all.. You can't allow your mother, father, wife, husband, siblings and even your own self to hold you back..
(Jesus said in Matt.18.8 - "If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire." ) You shouldn't allow anything or anyone come between you and Jesus.

We are saying the same thing bro.

Forsake your parents, you shouldn't allow them stop your relationship with Jesus. Dont allow it by leaving them, disregarding them and forsaken them.

If that isn't hate, I don know what it is

Makschinchin:
When Jesus first called James and John the sons of Zebedee, they were in a boat with their father, but at the call of Jesus, they left their father and followed Jesus. That doesn't mean they outrightly hated their dad afterwards in terms of not having anything to do with him anymore, no, but they had to answer their divine calling from that moment in order to fulfil their purpose on earth. Same James and John came with their mother at a particular time, to request a favour from Jesus. Since you said Jesus teaches hate, James and John should never have had anything to do with their mother anymore, neither would Jesus have bothered to heal Simon Peter's wife's mother.

AMPC If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother [in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and children and brothers and sisters—[yes] and even his own life also—he cannot be My disciple.

Amplified bible version used the word 'relative disregard'. Those are not my words. Bible asking you to honor and also disregard your parent. Shouldn't be allowed in our society.

Makschinchin:
Again let me show you from Mark 7, how Jesus was even displeased with the Scribes and Pharisees for teaching their children to disregard God's commandment to honor their father and mother:

Mark.7.9 - He (Jesus) said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
Mark.7.10 - For Moses said, "Honor your father and your mother'; and, "He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'
Mark.7.11 - But you (Pharisees and Scribes) say, "If a man says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban"--' (that is, a gift to God),
Mark.7.12 - then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother,
Mark.7.13 - making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."


So my dear, you can't possibly say Jesus meant "hatred" like you're painting it to look.

Thank you.

In all these sir, how do you explain 'hate' as a word and in contextual aspect? Let us see.

Makschinchin:
You're getting it all wrong sir.. Always taking Scriptural passages out of context And for the records, I'm a Christian, a Nigerian, and I don't link my ancestral history to David's because I'm not an Israelite talk more of David's descendant.. I haven't even seen any Christian who claims such (I don't personally know anyone from Israel). If you know any who is claiming such, why not let us know? Again, I don't have low self esteem and inferiority complex, so why would you ascribe such words to all Christians??

Thank goodness you have not changed your own ancestry, many Christians out there have done that. They went as far as claiming they are children of Abraham. Majority of the Christians in this country accept the Adam story as fact. They argued that their ancestry stemmed from Adam and Eve. Like wtf?

Makschinchin:
For those who care to know, in the Bible, Jesus often spoke in parables.. He explained these parables to His disciples and people who cared to know. There were some parables Jesus spoke that even His disciples didn't understand, they asked Jesus and He explained the parables to them But for some others who don't believe in Him, who never cared to know, they were left in the dark and may have ended up using logic/reasoning to unravel the truth behind the parables..

You can never decipher Jesus' parables with common sense/logic/human reasoning, you'll only end up in confusion. It is only the Holy Spirit that can give us understanding into everything that has to do with the Word of God and the Ways of God.

The parables were not pulled from the sky sir. In fact, the Good shepherd, sheep, missing sheep and another sheepfold are all drawn from Ezek 43. Read it up sir.

Makschinchin:
My dear FolyK, stop using human reasoning alone to decipher the Word of God.. Ask for the wisdom of God which is pure and full of good fruits.. "Ask and keep asking, and it shall be given unto you..." Matthew 7:7

Thank you

I don here. Welcome

Makschinchin:


You may ask why I'm laughing... I'm laughing at the way you carefully took those Scriptural passages out of context, even if something tells me you know better.. Anyways, let us discuss what you mentioned one at a time with the help of the Holy Spirit whom I've called to help me on this:

Ok

Makschinchin:
Sure, the Bible pointed out that Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But if you go back to the Scriptures, you'll notice that He fulfilled that mission of His here on earth and He even went to countries outside Israel to preach the gospel on many occasion. I've already told you that Jesus didn't forbid His disciples from preaching the Gospel to non-Jews (I've answered this question already). My dear, don't run away from Jesus, the Gospel is for you and I

This is you, my dear Sir, admitting with my line of argument and Bible that Jesus was sent purposely to the lost sheep in the house of Israel. The mission was Jew, not the entire world. I see no reason why you want to slug it out with me after you have accepted the aim/purpose of Jesus, according to the bible, is to preach the gospel to lost sheep of Israel, and not Lion of Assyria.

Another thing I noticed, it is your poor understanding of what made up the kingdom of Israel before it was destroyed about 720BC by the Assyria. Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon gave Israel the final blow that saw them scattered worldwide. Read Jer 50:17

Before that, I want you to note that Israel descended from Jacob. He had 12 sons, who multiplied and formed the kingdom of Israel. So, there were twelve land/city that made up Israel. Levi according to the bible do not have territorial allotment (Joshua 13:14, 14:3). While the people/descent of Joseph had two territorial allotments, Ephraim and Manassah (Joshua 14:4). Therefore, in total, there were twelve cities that made up the Kingdom of Israel.

Now, when Babylon struck, only two lands remained as the remaining lands were deserted, occupants fled and scattered around the world. The two lands were Judah and Ephraim.

I also want you to understand that Isreal (the whole kingdom) is known or been referred to as sheep. (Jer 50:17, Psalm 78:71).

Therefore, Jesus is saying in Matthew 15:24 that he was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This implies, in simple term, that he was sent ONLY to the ten lost tribe of the house of Israel. That is, the 10 tribes of Israel that scattered all over the world seeking solace there when Babylon struck.

Ezekiel 34:5 explained they were scattered because they had no shepherd. This is what Jesus was talking about in the parable of John 10:16 that there are other fold of sheep, which he sent to bring back as a fold and a shepherd. Jesus specifically mentioned that he is a shepherd sent by God. And the bible, made us understand that Israel is sheep. So, in the of the lost sheep, the shepherd was out looking for his missing sheep, not dog or lion. This mean Jesus was out, preaching the gospel to bring back the scattered lost tribe of Israel (sheep). Jeremiah 23:8

Jesus,knowing what the plan is, and what is purpose on earth is, he directed his disciples not to go among the gentiles or the town of Samaritans, but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and preach that the kingdom is at hand. Matthew 10:5-7.

Note the phrase, lost sheep of the house of Israel? These are the ten lost tribe of Israel who Jesus said he was sent to. Israel are Jehovah people Deut 7:6

So sir, it is obvious, from all the bible passages I have presented that God had no plan about non Jew, and Jesus his son was concerned about the Jew only. Explained with Acts 5:30,31 the passage details Jehovah exalted Jesus as the Leader and Savior, to give repentance to ISRAEL and forgiveness to their sins. For salvation is of Israel. John 4:22

Sir, the plan has been on, that Israel will be divided into different tribes, that Lion would attack them and have them scattered. And that they will be reunited which is why Jesus was here. You and me are not in the picture sir.

Makschinchin:
I'll use John Chapter 10 in this case where Jesus is referred to as the Good Shepherd and we all (not Israelites alone), His sheep. The sheep which are not in His fold are those who are yet to believe in Jesus and give their lives to Him, it could be anyone not just Israelites. If it were to be Israelites only, the Bible would have recorded it on countless occasions and there will be no need for Jesus and His disciples traveling out of Israel to preach the Gospel to non Jews.

This is laughable and completely wrong. You see, your submission above is contrary to what is in the bible. If I were to paint the real picture, your submission above are only figment of your imagination and have no substance in the bible.

Jesus messages, wholly, were quotation from old testament. The parable in John 10 included. So I will be right to state that Jesus was quoting from Ezekiel 34. The whole message in Ezek 34 was about the sheep, who the sheep are, the challenges they were facing, and what the future holds for them.

Note vers 30-end of Ezek 34
 30 Then they will know that I am the Lord their God. The family of Israel will know that I am with them and that they are my people.” This is what the Lord God said!

31 “You are my sheep, the sheep of my grassland. You are only human beings, and I am your God.” This is what the Lord God said.


The bible passage above was speaking about Families of Israel, who are known as SHEEP (not believers as you stated).

Therefore, Jesus in John 10:16 was referring to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, meaning the lost tribe of Israel.

Makschinchin:
Oh, so because it talks about the risen Christ, how He appeared to many, and His commandment to His disciples to preach the gospel to the whole world, you want me to believe you?? No way

It is not my doing that some passages of the bible were fraudulently plugged into the bible. The messages may mean alot to you but that doesn't change the fact that it is not in the original manuscript. This is the reason many bible versions removed it. NIV added a footnote which stated that the verse isn't translated from original manuscript. Wherever it came from, it is inherently fraud and outrightly rejected.

Makschinchin:
Sure, he is not the same as Jesus but he is a disciple of Jesus after he was converted. You claim Paul doesn't know Jesus, but the same Paul spoke to the public about his personal encounter with Jesus; how he heard from Jesus and was told what to do by Him (Acts 22:6-10)

The encounter you post a Bible verse to substantiate happens over the years after Jesus had died. That is not what I am saying. I meant, he didnt meet Jesus personally, or in person.

Many of Paul teachings contradicted or attempted develop a new doctrine contrary to what Jesus laid down. Yes I know, the Christianity of this age draw it doctrine from the hogwash laid down from Paul. He doesn't have the expertise, he didnt meet Jesus and do not know his teaching. This is why Disciples of Jesus disagreed with him.

Such person , that says anything contrary to what God had laid down, and contrary to pathway God son follows, is not acceptable.

Makschinchin:
You speak about Jesus hating non Jews, but that is not what that passage is saying.. Let bring that passage here: REVELATION 2:9
"KJV: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
AMP: I know your affliction and distress and pressing trouble and your poverty-but you are rich! and how you are abused and reviled and slandered by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a Synagogue of Satan."

NOTE: Those 'who say' they are Jews.. (Same with Rev 3:9)
Meanwhile Philadelphia and Smyrna are outside of Israel ooo (correct me if I'm wrong)
These passages are in no way talking about Jesus' hatred of non Jews (it's very obvious. Thank God you showed me the passage because I was wondering if what you claim could ever be true )

Rev 2:9, 3:9 were quoted against folks like you and Jesusjnr. In a meantime, before you allude to yourself the nationality of Israel, you should know that there is a curse for such action.

Many Christians told have rejected their ancestry and took upon themselves ancestry of David and Abraham. You will see them tracing their history back to Noah in faraway Israel. My Igbo kinsmen are guilty of this. They are removing their identity, history and heritage and taking on another person history. What a shame.

Even if you allude that you are Jew, it doesn't make you a jew but synagogue of satan that would serve the jew in future.

Makschinchin:
That same verse you are trying to quote said you should hate yourself (which you knowingly omitted), so what exactly do you think Jesus was saying there??

Read about Self-hatred.

Or you don't know people hate themselves? You don't know you hate yourself by subscribing to foreign God?

Makschinchin:
That's not true sir!

Mathew 15:24 is an example of Segregation. You may not agree but it's fact

Makschinchin:
Harmony with Lucifer God forbid o.. Bros, no be me and you wan harmonize with Satan, Tufiakwa Someone who initiated sin and is the reason for all the hardship and evil many suffer today..I can't harmonise with Satan, because he doesn't even wish any of us well.. We are well today and enjoy life through the grace of Almighty God through Jesus Christ, His Son.

Amos 3:6 and Isaiah 45:7 told us God is the source of all evil. That is not my line of argument, I just want you to see that Jehovah is the devil, not Lucifer.

And have you seen what I was saying? There is no truce, no compassion, compromise, forgiveness and true love which is way above all wrongs. In the absence of all these, there will be disharmony.

A God that cannot form a truce and end rancor is demonic. You should stop worshipping such egomaniac dictator.

If Christianity is founded on harmony, and your God is compassionate, he would have set aside the wrong of Lucifer and work with him. This shows there isn't harmony in Christianity.

Makschinchin:
I need you to share Scriptural passages for this.. I no come dey believe you again because you like to take one passage and twist it wrongly to suit you.. Me want to read the full chapter

Deut 32:8-12, Psalm 78:71 these two verses speak about God inheriting Israel.

1 king 8:23 talks about Jehovah been God of Israel.

Please understand me brother, I am not a polish writer or speaker but I have a vast knowledge on subject like this. 2 Cor 11:6. There is no reason to lie, you need reality and that is what I am reeling out.

Makschinchin:
You are filled with hate for our God (I guess something made you feel this way. I'm all ears, I don't mind you sharing -personally- if you wish). Jesus may have come in flesh as an Israelite, but that doesn't mean He is God of the Israelites alone. "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the Word of reconciliation" (-2nd Corinthians 5:19).

That is contrary to Matt 15:24 he said he came for Israelite alone.

1 king 8:23 indicated that Jehovah is the God of Israel, not the whole world.

And sorry sir, I do not hate your God. I am only stating facts and setting the record straight. You lots have to know who you worship and how he gave no single fuucck about you.

Makschinchin:
You said He condemned Edom/Edomites because they weren't His; have you forgotten that Edom is Esau, Isaac's son, Abraham's grandson?? Please Go back to the book of Genesis and read about the story of Esau, how he lost his rightful place before God and man.

Sir, is it that you can't see it? Edom was destined to be destroyed by Jehovah. At no time was salvation brought to them. The question I asked is, why can't God save them? Why the bloodied hate and callous wickedness? Did Jesus went to preach to them? Why can't God send Jesus to Edomites and have them saved? Why only the house of Israel?

Please answer these questions.

Makschinchin:
First and foremost, don't try to separate Jesus from God because Jesus is God.

Ehn ehn.

Jesus is Jehovah. Isnt that what you mean?

Makschinchin:
Jesus never forsook the Samaritans and Gentiles. You failed to mention how He preached the Gospel to a Samaritan woman at Jacob's well in John chapter 4. And for the woman of Canaan you wrongly claimed He called a dog, you know too well from that passage that He wasn't literally referring to the woman as a dog. He said a proverb there, Matthew 15:22-28, "It is not meet to take the children's bread and cast it to dogs" (vs 26), what He meant here could be seen at His first reply to the woman in verse 24, "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". Nonetheless, the woman understood the proverb and immediately responded in verse 27, "Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their master's table". Her response clearly shows that she believed Jesus can still heal her daughter even if she wasn't an Israelite, and YES, Jesus healed her daughter instantly because of her faith (vs 28).

Matt 10:5-6 preceded all these. Ezek 43 told us about Sheep, not dogs or Lions.

The woman child was healed, no dispute.... That is not after she has been insulted and called demeaning name. Jesus did what he did outside the line of duty. No offence there.

My argument is that Jesus line of duty is to be shepherd of sheep (Israelites). And the bring to the lost sheep back to the fold. (lost sheep mean lost tribe of Israel). He affirmed that that is what he is here for, not some other thing he did. Jesus isn't keeper of Lion, Foxes, or Wolf. If he was here for those wild animals, he could have saved them too.

Makschinchin:
STOP TAKING BIBLE PASSAGES OUT OF CONTEXT!! You just claimed Jesus called her a dog and didn't point out what happened in the passage because you want people to believe in the lies you are spreading against the Gospel of Christ.. You won't say the wonderful things Jesus did and is still doing but you will like to turn Scripture passages upside down only to deceive those who don't know the Truth of God's Word. But God won't let you succeed in that in Jesus' Name, AMEN.

What happen after isn't my business sir. The bone of contention is that Samaritan is dog and the woman accepted that. However, Jesus was sent to the lost sheep ONLY, not to dogs or baboons.

Makschinchin:
Following the ways of Jesus is not deceit and can never be. I'll rather encourage you to come into the glorious Light of our Lord and Saviour Jesus and stop yielding your soul, spirit and body to Satan for his evil works against the kingdom of God.

Come to JESUS today!!

God bless you sir.

Your mind has long been sold into perpetual slavery. Free yourself, stop worshipping a hateful, wicked and racist God of Israel.

OkCornel:
I am just amazed how someone can be so bereft of understanding to keep on quoting the Old Testament to justify hatred for certain people.

It is very clear Jesus addressed the issue of hating one's enemies in this verse;

Matthew 5:43 - "You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'. (AS PRACTICED IN THE OLD COVENANT)


Now Jesus replaced that with a new instruction in Matthew 5 v 44 -


Matthew 5:44 - But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you. (JESUS' COMMANDMENT TO HIS FOLLOWERS!)



Jesus hates sin and evil, and expects same from His followers...

But never did He instruct believers should go ahead to hate people for the evil they do!

The same Jesus commanded you guys to HATE your parents, wife, children, siblings and yourself before you can qualify as his disciple.

Why would anyone propagate hatred either to oneself or to one relative all in the name of serving God of Israel?

jesusjnr:
At least we have something in common, that we find nothing meaningful in what we are saying to each other.

So long bro!

It doesn't change the fact that Jesus didn't die for your sin, he wasn't sent to redeem you, the gospel is not meant for you, you are a synagogue of satan and can never be a Jew.

jesusjnr:
Your entire write-up sums up the extent of your ignorance of the meaning of "hatred" in that context.

For the reason I mentioned the part of hating oneself there, was that I thought it would help you better understand what it meant there.

But at the end I ended up confusing you further.

So have you ever read the saying "thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself?"

You can use that to help mitigate the effects of that confusion that has arisen because of that saying I initially gave to you concerning hating one's self.

But I would also leave you with this Saying of Jesus for that purpose:

Matthew 16:24 (KJV)

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

God bless.

You, my Comrade ended up saying nothing. Everything you wrote up here have no meaningful output that explains the word 'hatred' in that context. What does it mean, in whatever context, to HATE your father, mother, brother, sister, children and your own life? Hate is the direct opposite of love. So there is no how you twist it, hate there mean absence of love.

In the aspect of hating oneself or own life, I described it with 'self-hatred' and provided a detailed explanation what self hatred implies. In case you don't know what self hatred is, you can easily consult Google and wikipedia. Your dictionary too isn't exempted. Self-hatred extends, race, historical and ethnical background, and social values. I shouldn't do the job of copying, pasting and coloring as if I am talking to a kid before you understand what self hatred is.

As per the bible verse you quote above, can you explain how ONE WILL DENY HIMSELF? What does denying oneself mean?

That bible verse above buttress my points. It tells that you've got to disregard every form of identification and take upon yourself a new identity. This self is identity. Identity is defined by history, cultural values, names, race, skin color and ethnical belonging. When there isn't sense of belonging, there is no self awareness.

Therefore, Jesus implies that you've got to disregard your history and cultural heritage and remain submissive as sheep to him. That is why there are master-slave relationship between his followers.

Luke 14:26 Amplified bible
AMPC If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother [in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and children and brothers and sisters—[yes] and even his own life also—he cannot be My disciple.

Note the word "RELATIVE DISREGARD"? Oohh you may attempt twisting it.

I can see the shame in your writings, as you cherish your parents and do not want to 'hate' them as instructed by Jesus. You do not want to accept the fact but here it is straying at you.

There is no two ways of interpreting 'hate'. It is complete opposite of love. And as shown in other Bible versions, it explains that hate there mean 'relative disregard'. Should we run around the world finding meaning of 'relative disregard?

The bible dictates you can follow Jesus after you've disregard your parent, wife, children and even your own life. Hating own life mean self-hatred which can be defined as extreme hatred for oneself.

Oneself can only be defined by the historical, cultural, ethnical background of that person. An African that traces his ancestry through Abraham is lost. You my brother, you are lost and complete shame to Mama Africa.

jesusjnr:
Oops. You forgot to add the part of the saying where He also said "you must also hate yourself."

Perhaps the meaning of hatred in this context exceeds the boundaries of your mentality.

Oohhh thanks, I forgot to add that too. Jesus instructed his disciples to hate oneself. That is the worst form of hatred.

You probably don't see how demonic it is to hate oneself, probably you don't understand it wholly, you would have seen how pathetic it is and hide your face in shame instead of putting it out to me.

Hating oneself, hating yourself or myself simply implies self-hatred. Self hatred, also know as self loathing is an extreme hated of oneself, which can be linked to guilt of one action that are viewed as wrong. People who hate themselves are found to have very low self esteem.

How do we define self? Before you missed the point, self isn't just person, it is defined by a lot of factors which are; history, cultural identity, cultural values, race, and lot more. Therefore, it is important to note that hating one history, one cultural values, skin color, race, cultural identifies imply that one hate himself or herself.

So manu Christians are guilty of hating themselves. It starts by disregarding your history, and subscribing to other people history. As a Yoruba person, your history traces back to Sango, Obatala, Oduduwa, Orunmila and many Yoruba ancestors. This historical linkage give person that Yoruba identity. However, many of you Christians disregard your ancestral histories and cling unto ancestral of David, Jesse, Jacob and Abraham. You loathe, dislike and hate your own history, that is self hating.

Your cultural identity appears in your name. People who bear Soyinka, Oguntade, Sangonise, Esudara, etc abort there cultural identity and wear onto themselves slavish names like Isaiah, Abn Saidi, Yakubu, Samuel, Sixtus, Benjamin, etc. The names have no cultural relationship with your background. They are nee tags worn after you disregard your much hated cultural identity. Abi wetin be the meaning of Ibrahim in Yoruba? Or Isaiah in Igbo? Only those who hate themselves abandon their cultural identity to foreign ones.

Haring oneself goes along with inferiority complexity of racial group. Only in Africa Christians trace themselves to Abraham. Only in Africa, Christians affiliate themselves with Cain, Esau and Ham, taking upon themselves curses that are on the head of these people. Only in Africa Christians admit blacks are cursed. Only in Nigeria Igbo Christians abolish their ancestral background and subscribe to Jewish ancestry even when they don't have relationship with Israel.

Someone that hates himself, hating of oneself is equals to distasteful attitude toward one identity, values and history.

Jesus asked you to

Makschinchin:
Not so.
Everyone has a purpose here on earth. Jesus may have sent His disciples to preach the gospel to the Israelites at a particular time, but it doesn't mean they were forbidden to preach the gospel to others.

Then, Jesus may have been speaking from both sides of his mouth. Such inconsistent person shouldn't be taken serious.

The bible pointed out, that he came and was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL. He directed his disciples not to go to the Samaritans and Gentiles. He was so specific and straightforward. That mean the whole gospel isn't meant for you and me. Jehovah is the God of Israel and He had sent his only son to the Israelite. That is racism.

Makschinchin:
Listen to Jesus' command to His disciples before He ascended to Heaven,

Matthew 28:19 - Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:20 - teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

I am familiar with that verse you quoted above. It is one of those misunderstood statement in the bible. Jesus has clearly made himself clear with the parable of good Shepherd. And that is if you understand that parable and correlate it with matt 28:19-20

The parable tells a story of a Shepherd who went looking for his lost sheep in the wilderness. And when he found the sheep, he bring it to the fold and become happy.

There is also a statement where Jesus mentioned that there is another sheep fold which is not among his flock.

Who are the sheep or who does the bible represent as sheep? Israelites.

Many nations are represented as wolf, lion, and other wild animals. They all dwell in the wilderness BUT THE SHEPHERD DOESN'T GIVE A FUUCCKKKK ABOUT THEM.

Therefore, the nations been talk about in matt 28:19-20 is the entire world. Accepted.

But the message is sent to the lost tribe of Israel who are scattered worldwide.

The shepherd (Jesus) is concerned with his lost sheep (lost tribe of Israel), not Hyenas, Snakes, Jackass or wolf.

So unless you are a Jew or descendant of a jew that went missing after Babylon ransacked Israel, you are only deceiving yourself with some racial discriminatory religion.

Makschinchin:

Mark.16.15 - And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mark.16.20 - And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

Mark 16:8-end are not in the original manuscript. Those verses you are quoting were fraudulently added into the bible from the smelly aaazz of Bible scholars. It is figment of scholar imagination and fake

Do your finding here http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?

Makschinchin:
Apostle Paul preached mostly to the Gentiles (those who weren't Israelis). He even called himself an apostle of the Gentiles in Romans 11:13. I'd rather you attach scriptural passages to support your claims especially where you said Jesus placed a curse on those who aren't Jews.

Apostle Paul is not the same person as Jesus so cannot speak for him. For the record, he does not know Jesus in person, wasn't one of his disciple or learn the teaching of Jesus from Jesus directly. So he cannot speak for him.

Another fact is so many disciples of Jesus disagreed with Paul on some teachings. That is because Paul is a reformist and founding his new religion, founded on Jesus words. He contradicted Jesus in so many ways. Such character cannot be accepted as a speaker for Jesus. He was on his own.



On the bible passage you required, I think that is Rev 2:9, 3:9

Makschinchin:
BTW, Christianity doesn't propagate hatred, segregation, division, intolerance and disharmony like you mentioned.. That's heresy! True followers of Christ are to love all and live at peace with all men as the Bible commands.

Thank you

What would you call a religion that teaches Hatred from a to father and mother? Hatred

What would you call a religion that focus on some particular people and left out others? Segregation

Christianity as it is known creates divide between believers and non believer. Your religion is formulated heaven and eternal hell. Isn't that a divide?

What does your religion teaches about harmony? Nothing. Can you have harmony with Lucifer? Nope. Thus you teaches disharmony..

Christianity is founded on the principle of hatred. The so called love is fallacy.

Jehovah is everywhere proclaiming himself as the GOD OF ISRAEL. He said the he INHERITED Israel from the Most High. Israel is his inheritance and he cherished her than any other thing on earth. Like in the parable, Israel is his sheep which he protect from ewe.

That same racist God sent his son to his lost sheep, the lost tribe of Israel. A God who created whole animal would care about the welfare of other animals but Jehovah is concerned only about his herd of sheep. He condemned Edom and Edomites because they ain't his. Such God is callous and wicked.

Jesus ain't different either. Following the steps of Jehovah, he sent his disciples to go to the house of Israel only, forsaking the Samaritans and Gentiles. He also called a Samaritan woman, Dog. What could be more insulting than calling a human being, woman, dog? And did Jesus told you in parable that Shepherd went looking for sheep and dog? Isn't dog helpless in the wilderness too?

You see, many of you have been deceived for long, it is time you refrain from the religion that blindfolded you, took away your identity and heritage, submit you into perpetual slavery. Grow up. You ain't a sheep and won't be a sheep. Follow your likes, for a lion don't wander around with sheep

The same Jesus told us he was sent to ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel, and he directed his disciple to preach the gospel only to the Jew. Not only that, he placed a curse on those who are not jew but claim they are. What a racist god my black kinsmen worship.

@OP, didnt your bible ask you to HATE your father and mother?

Christianity propagates hatred, segregation, division, intolerance and disharmony. The love you are preaching is facade.

LordReed:
Evolution does not always benefit the group thats why species die out, they reached an evolutionary dead end.

You think the universe will evolve into a better state? Are you aware that the sun is projected to engulf the Earth in a few billion years and that the Andromeda galaxy is going to crash into ours in the same time frame? Where then are you getting this idea that the universe is going to evolve into a better state?

From my understanding of cyclic theory of multiverse, there is an infinite, and self sustaining big bang, big crunch and big freeze. Even when all you stated happens, it returns again and again and again till eternity.

Yoruba spirituality talks about multiverse, and tag it ajule orun where Ori is. It explains our reality as the mirror of what happens in ajule orun.

Whatever you are drinking, reduce the quantity for the sake of your health

Primate Ayodele reasons like his name tag, primate.

If Buhari should be the cause of insecurity, he should be the solution that leads to peace and security. Abi his useless skydaddy can't fight for him

The question, why do we pray?

You see, the mind of a man simply remodel something into person which they can communicate verbally with. It happens alot even when we don't notice it. The fact is, when these stuff are important to us and are not a person, we tend to deal with them as a person. Hence, the reason why some pray to God or something. This doesn't mean God is a person.

I noticed too that people pray to the court of law. Even when the court of justice is a God, it is not a person.

Therefore, people pray to God because there mind captured it as human or someone they can converse with.

In Yoruba spirituality, sacrifices is more important than prayer. Infact, they don't pray to Eledumare as he/she/it does not interfere with activities in the physical world. Sacrifices as defined in Ifa is exchange (could be between human and god or human to human).

plaetton:
Divine dreaming is most likely what we know as lucid dreaming.
Lucid dreaming, like other dreams, shows up distinctly in catscans on sleep subjects . And contrary to what you stated, lucid dreaming can more easily be induced and simulated using mind altering herbs and chemicals.
Now, one is free to give interpretations to dreams, and confirm such after the fact.
What I trying to say is that no two persons can give the same interpretation to the same dream. As such, there is no such accurate interpretation of dreams. The sum of a person's psyche determines how a person interprets a dream, lucid or regular.

Lucid dream, what a great terminology. I made a quick search of that word, and found it does not relate with what I tagged 'divine dream'. If I am correct, lucid dream simply mean awareness of dream state.

I wouldn't argue about if divine dream can be induced or not. For sure, some amulets, incantation, spell and application of diabolic stuff. There are also some people who have this dream naturally.

Divine dream, is believed to be a message from the spiritual sphere or figure. The experience reveal the unknown, unthinkable and unfathomable past and more likely future. This draws to root source of past issues and possible outcome of future occurrence.

I do not know what other experienced. But on personal note, I have seen situations that happen exactly as I dreamt it in the past. It happened like I remember myself seeing into the future. That dream is a divine thing, probably a forewarning or foreknowledge of what is about to happen.

Forgive me, I used the tag 'divine dream'. There could be other words out there that best described it. But please note that this isn't about giving meaning to happenings in the dream, my position here is seeing it as it is.

plaetton:
This thread needs further discussion.

This is an interesting thread.

But the subject seems narrowed into nde and related stuff. Spiritual experience is broadened and cannot be discussed within just nde. Been a runner of YTS (Yoruba Traditional spirituality), nde is alien to it system. But there are divine dreams, astra travel, divination, and whole lot of experiences.

While dream can be explained scientifically as a chemical reaction in the brain, divine dream is different. Divine dream is not a result of random thinking, it serves a purpose of expressing issues; causes and possible solutions, and often tell about the future.

Many people accurately foretell what happen in future times even without having anything thing to do with it. Happening occur exactly as they dreamed it. It could be gift of nature, but as it is, such instances cannot be explain off with brain chemistry.

Let us discuss extensively on divine dream. How is it brain chemistry?

adoyi8:
It's impossible to read all the books of the bible and still be a Christian.

Seriously, I stopped been a christian after reading the bible all by myself. I still can't fathom how there are still Christians with the horrific stories contained in the bible

MuttleyLaff:
I already have forgiven you

Black, what biblically speaking and in the truest sense of it, is sodomy to your understanding and how are you saying that it's worse than white supremacy?

Guy you no dey tire? You dey try o.

You have made your point known, those that would see reason will surely pick points in your submission. And those who choose to remain blind will see everything you wrote unpalatable and raise unnecessary rancour. You should let go

OkCornel:
I wasn't referring to you there bro.
Muttley said he and alBHAGDAD.I thinks alike...
By the way, that thread is another comedy show.

That is a symptom of extremism. And shepherd is showing same traits

OkCornel:
My stomach ooo...this guy you are very funny...

You're obviously talking about this thread created by alBHAGDAD.I, the same person Muttley says he thinks like...

https://www.nairaland.com/5268515/why-christians-should-not-fall

Muttley, you still think like alBHAGDAD.I right?

We are not the same. And shouldn't hold the same view.

But that thread, guy I was shocked to the bone when I saw it

Shepherd00:
White Garment Churches are indeed churches since their god leaves inside the Ocean and every water body that they sacrifices to.

Which of the white garment church is built inside Ocean?

Shepherd00:
Prostitution is trading of body for pleasure.
Did I say it is not, oh thou temple of God?

God detested it before asking his prophet to marry one?

Shepherd00:
[quote author=Shepherd00 post=79738877]There is nothing wrong in the business.
Oh Yeah? to your Ancestors or to YHWH? because here He says;
C.E.V. Deuteronomy 23:18 The LORD your God is disgusted with men and women who are prostitutes of any kind, and he will not accept a gift from them, even if it had been promised to him.

Deuteronomy 23:17-18 There shall be no LovePeddler of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
Thou shalt not bring the hire of a LovePeddler, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

No daughter of Israel is to become a sacred prostitute; and no son of Israel is to become a sacred prostitute. And don't bring the fee of a sacred LovePeddler or the earnings of a priest-love-vendor to the house of God, your God, to pay for any vow—they are both an abomination to God, your God.

You , FOLY are a love-vendor who doubles as the temple of God. So, do you bring the money you earn from your business as offering to God?

You smell of filth from all the way there.

If I call you a bastard, you go dey vex.

Are you a jew or an Israelite?

Does been a jew makes you a jew?

Shepherd00:
In many cases in the bible, prostitute saved the life of Joshua spies in Jericho, she was saved too.
In many cases? Can you mention these many cases?

So, Rahab hid the spies. Was she a Jew or a worshipper of YHWH? She was a Pagan, like you.

And, did who she was invalidates this? No daughter of Israel is to become a sacred prostitute; and no son of Israel is to become a sacred prostitute.
You forgot to mention that she converted to Judaism later, stopped her trade and married Naason, a Jew and had Children by him.

The fact is she was a prostitute. If the act was that bad, she should have been hanged.

Shepherd00:
Many prophets in the bible married prostitutes.
Like which and which?

Amos and Hosea

Shepherd00:
Jesus met one or two and didn't discriminate against them.

And that made Jesus a love-vendor right?
And, those He met continued with their trade after they met Jesus?

You should show me where he discriminate against them

Shepherd00:
See how satan dey deceive you? See how you go telling lies trying to.convince yourself with scriptures.

MuttleyLaff, you have a good disciple in FOLY.

Weldone guys, satan must be proud.

You haven't refuted anything here sir. So I don't know what lie you are pointing at

MuttleyLaff:
Na condition make crayfish bend foly. It started with poverty, financial difficulties, been financially disadvantaged etcetera

I wouldn't say you are wrong. Some of those girls do it because of financial issues.

But we still have some girls who are ok and are into the business.

I know one or two who's child studies in South Africa and still own boutique at home. She built her own hotel here in Ondo state... She is retired now as she is old madam but she still run the business.

Wetin dat kind person dey find again?

MuttleyLaff:
Foly, abeggy please leave this ashewo talk alone with these guys because if pesin begin this ashewo talk with them, as in historically and from a Bible perspective, they'll cry, screaming blue murder, especially when you present them with facts from the Bible on ashewo to face. These guys dont properly read, dont do diligent home work, are deficient and are biblically illiterate. Any small thing you type, say or mention, they quickly jump up, standing at attention asking and saying, show me, show me in the Bible where it is, or give me the source, the website, you obtained that information from etcetera. No, it isnt only source I'll give. Source kọ, source ni. I'll give yall sauce, pepper and salt to add. I am just soooo tired of them, especially the trio, Shepherd00, OkCornel and openmine.

Bros, olorun n gbo. You dey try no be here.

Shepherd esp is a potential crusader. He can kill for Jesus. Them dey learn work from that guy wey create thread say Christianity isn't about love but hatred. I saw the thread yesterday and was shocked.

Shepherd00:
Hahahahahahaha. So you, a pagan can rightly divide scriptures yeah? lolzzzzz.

I am abọ̀rìṣà, not pagan sir.

Shepherd00:
Read what you typed again. You just repeated what I said.
If the partners were already married before one partner converted, and the other partner wants to stay on in the marriage, fine.
Question now is, When you threw in that hail Mary to her pastor, were you already married?

Yes we are. Nope, not in the church.

Shepherd00:
Yes, that's becos before God, the marriage was not valid.

The marriage is sanctified and I am too. Thus sayeth the word of God. I shouldn't take your own opinion over the word of God.

Shepherd00:
Happy married life. but you used the verse of scripture wrongly, and she was not the wiser.

The scripture was simple, precise and concise. You had wanted to twist it but your attempts failed.

Shepherd00:
Yeah, I know Yorubas to be like Chameleons when it comes to Religious matters. They can easily slip from ATR to Islam but, then a gain to Christianity and all the way back to ATR.

I knew you be Igbo. You guys are born with hatred. It is in your blood.

What you call chameleon is what we call harmony and tolerance.

Yoruba is the only tribe in the world where people live together despite their differences. Muslim marries Christians, father belongs to a religion and other family choose any other faith and still live together happily. That is the ingrain of been ọmọlúwàbí.

It is in Yoruba land you will find husband in APC and children in PDP. I know a family like that. Both inside and outside politics, they are bond by love, peace and joy. They all live happily despite this differences.

If na your people, I believe you would have killed other people who do not hold same belief and ideology with you. Because you are born with hatred, intolerance, disunity, disrespect with no heritage.

Shepherd00:
An ATR man like you can marry a Christian lady and she wld telling herself that she was married, only before God, she wasn't.

You don't know me. I admire ATR, and will to know about my cultural heritage. That alone gives me pride, sense of belonging and identity. I don't need to practise it. So I don't know where the tag ATR you used for me comes from.

Shepherd00:
You don't know the spiritual and the underlying essential realities of marriage to be a fusion of souls. Darkness can not fuse with light.

What concords does light have with darkness?

On the first note, God created both darkness and light.

On the second note, darkness gives meaning to light. (death gives meaning to life).

On the third round, the glory of light is shown only when it shine in the dark (a white chalk inscription shows clearly on dark blackboard).

On the fourth round, there must be a balance in dark and light, the harmony keeps world at peace. If there is imbalance, disharmony, there would be chaos.

On the first note, there isn't darkness or light, it is just perception.

Eat those five words of wisdom.

Shepherd00:
I am not advocating your break up, weytin concern me?
I only exposed your lies by using that scripture. The scripture was referring to people who were already married before conversion, not you who was preparing to be married at the time you used it.
And, you think you are alive? Essentially, FOLY, you are dead. Anyone without the Regenerated life of Christ is dead. keep drawing up God's air, the day you breath your last, you shall remember today. All this your pride shall blow up on your face.

I am a divinity, a god, that is known in your bible. A god does not die but only transcends.

Shepherd00:
Now you are Christian?

If you are the example of Christianity, I don't want to be a christian.

I value innermost peace, unconditional love, and good character. Keep your insanity to yourself.

Shepherd00:
Wait!!!! your body is the temple of which God? lolzzzzzzzzzz. Pls call him by name, don't hide under the noun 'God'. every God has a name, which one do you mean?
Anyway, Ancestors possess their people too sha.

Orí. That is the God name.

Shepherd00:
1 Corinthians 10:21 You cannot drink from the cup of demons and still drink from the Lord's cup. You cannot eat at the table of demons and still eat at the Lord's table.

Give to Ceasars what belong to Ceasars.

Anyways, I don't know demons except Jehovah and his earthly zombie which you are.

Shepherd00:
FOLY, Listen, what you Yorubas do, God laughs at you folks. You are an ATR, yet goes to Church, naaaaa, it doesn't work like that. May be Islam, but not Christianity, at least not the one that Christ is the Head.

Knowledge is limitless. There is Jesus in Ifa you know. He was born a jew and practised kabbalic, a judaic form of divination.

So you see, there is nothing wrong about knowing about other religion. It increases my knowledge.

Shepherd00:
You cannot just admit to being a full fleshed Paga
n who sacrifices to the ancestors (demons) and still claim your body to be a Temple of God, except of course, it's not Jesus.
the first

If your own ancestors are demons, mine are not.

Jesus killed himself to appeal to his bloodthirsty father. The sacrifice was to take away sin. Even when many repents, the atonement of the blood won't clean them. The repented ones still die. Because Jesus death fails.

Shepherd00:
And, Your Body is the Temple of God o.
Married to a Christian. Right!!!!!!
Wait, I forgot that White Garment churches in Yoruba land are considered churches. lolzzzzz

MuttleyLaff, why? You missed giving your bedfellow a like for this wonderful post. What happened, doesn't your god approve of Prostitution again?

Na like this your yansh take open for Nairaland o. I wish I can call those old Nairalanders who knew you in the Religion section as a Christian, to come read your thoughts here. Chai.

White garment churches are not church? This your holier-than-thou attitude is bad.

Prostitution is trading of body for pleasure. There is nothing wrong in the business. In many cases in the bible, prostitute saved the life of Joshua spies in Jericho, she was saved too. Many prophets in the bible married prostitutes. Jesus met one or two and didn't discriminate against them.

Lekan1o1:
Lol, like I said only few gals do it even some ashewo will start cursing u immediately u mention anal.. They will be calling u ritualist.

Well not all of them sha o. But some classified olosho can be weird.

Lekan1o1:
Are they Nigerians? Only few Nigerian women take anal... Also poverty can make gals take it just for the money not that they enjoy it

Which poverty? Girl wey dey use iphone poor?

Bros, if you really want to see anal sex, go ashewo joint,speak with the manager to assign you a crazy fucker, and drill her. Just remember to pay her after she serves you

Shepherd00:
If you isolate 1Cor 7:13-14, you won't understand what Paul is saying, that's why I said read from verse one.

C.E.V1 Corinthians 7:13-14
If your wife isn't a follower of the Lord, but is willing to stay with you, don't divorce her.

If your husband isn't a follower, but is willing to stay with you, don't divorce him. Your husband or wife who isn't a follower is made holy by having you as a partner. This also makes your children holy and keeps them from being unclean in God's sight.

Who is Paul talking to here? People who got married before they got converted or those who had already married?

Now, here is what he says further. 1 Corinthians 7:15 If your husband or ~~wife isn't a follower of the Lord and decides to divorce you,~~ then you should agree to it . ~~~You are no longer bound to that person~~~~. After all, God chose you and wants you to live at peace.

Can you see the context clearly now? Is Paul endorsing divorce here? No.
Read again Mr Pagan.

Let me put in pigin English.

Paul say, if una bin don marry before one of una enter church, and dey one wey no enter, no see anything wrong and him won remain together as husband and wife (Altho, one of una no gree go church o) no wahala. But if now wey one of una don born again but the other partner say, him no go gree, as in, him no go fit marry Christian, make him go him way, notin do you wey born again. After all the marriage sef bin no dey according to God way.

Again, if una bin dong marry den come born again, den one of una come die, make dey one wey remain alive no marry unbeliever o. or if a single person born again, make dat person only marry Believer o.

E clear you now?

Lol, this is pathetic. Your poor attempt at twisting the bible is very bad.

Simple meaning.

The convert could be either of the partners. And if they other partner, non-convert, insist on staying on the marriage, they should not divorce. By doing that, the non converted partner is sanctified by sticking to a converted spouse.

And the verse you quoted, 1 cor 7:15, gave a condition for divorce. Which is, if the non converted partner insist on ending the relationship on the premises that his other partner has converted, such marriage should be broken.

We are happily married and doing fine despite our religious stance. The Bible insist we should go on since I my love for her isn't because of her religion, I love her wholeheartedly. Moreso, I be Yoruba man, we see beyond religion here.

Secondly, I am still alive, not dead. I see no reason why you should advocate for breaking a relationship when one of the spouse is very much alive.

Thirdly, been a Christian isn't by going to church as you posited above. My body is the temple of God.

So bro, your efforts at thwarting everything that doesn't seem good to you is evil.

Shepherd00:
MuttleyLaff, this here is your best Pal. Bunch of pervs.

Prostitution is oldest profession in the world. Porn industry alone in California is to the ton of multi billion dollar. The pros business is a good revenue source if the government is serious about tapping it.

Did you know porn actor earns around $800 - $1500 per shot. It comes with health, feeding, transportation and housing tip.

How much do you think stripper earns by night stand?

I am looking into the business side.

MuttleyLaff:
OkCornel is a sucker for anything. Only if he knew how many wasted takes, how many coaxing, how many bribes, how many beatings, the dog got, how many threats, the cruelty to the dog etcetera before the director and producer eventually got this take.

This is eye opening. I have watched couple of bestiality clips but couldn't fathom how the dog willfully sex human.

Also meet a porn actress a while ago on the internet. I asked many questions about the industry but missed out this bestiality thang.

Thanks for the headup

OkCornel:
You'll risk getting banned with that picture.

I don remove am.
But nairaland should have gone pass this level o.

MuttleyLaff:
Tbh, OkCornel, I don't now know what to do about you. SMH. According to you, dogs and horses are giving consent, hmm? Why are you stopping at dogs and horses only, erhn? Shepherd00 really has been a bad influence on you, you have being a good student of Shepherd00. He has taught you his ways, you too have learned them perfectly well. Would you believe it, dogs and horses, giving their consent and giving sexual favours. Very soon OkCornel, dont worry, we'll soon have dogs and horses running for the House of Senate as senators

The picture below is what he actually saw. A dog mounting a human lady. He thought the dog consented smashing the lady.


Was that dog forced?

Shepherd00:
And did, Again. I went back to the post and mentioned you. didn't you get the mention? shd I mention you there again?

What mention? Are you referring to your twist?

Oga, how can you explain 1 cor 7:13-14? I don't need you to ask me to read the whole bible before I can understand a simple statement