₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
I do not intend to dispute with you on the universality of IFA as anyone can choose to believe anything. For instance, the Olumba-Olumba believe that Olumba is Jesus Christ. The Grail message adherents believe that Abdulrushin their founder is the Holy Spirit. There was even a time when there was a Jesus of Oyingbo. So, you can understand my position.

The universality of IFA is your belief, I can't speak for that. I can only speak on what I know of the 256 Odu IFA. I don't know apart of your claim of the "universality" of IFA any creed/spiritual system that is language for language a translation of the 256 odu IFA. I hope you can see my predicament.

By the way, my problem is only with antichristian who at best doesn't even understand his Islam and want to throw stones at Christianity.

No dear, you are turning everything on it head and robing yourself with confusion.

In your own words, Ogun and the Yoruba Gods can be invoked or consulted with Yoruba language alone. You claimed you have only seen incarnation in Yoruba language only and showed video of a Brazilian praising Ifa in Yoruba tongue.

The reality, like I have informed you is that Ifa can be consulted by someone that speak a tongue different from Ede-Yoruba. The first example is the Nupe people in Niger state, often referred to as Tapa among the Yoruba people. If you can a book written by Wande Abimbola, Oju Odu Merindinlogun, in Irosun Meji that Ọpẹ fọ tapa. Ope in that context is Ifa. The verse added that Ifa speaks tapa even when Orunmila do not understand the language. Till date, Ifa is practised among the Tapa, yet they don't speak Yoruba.

Santeria also consult Yoruba deities as Saints, with a language that isn't Yoruba. It is truth they speak some little Yoruba words but that isn't enough to claim they invoke Yoruba Gods with Yoruba Language only.

If you have issues with antichristian and his religion, deal with that directly rather than dragging Yoruba spiritual system into it. Yoruba heritage won't serve as a yardstick for diccck measuring contest between two abrahamic religion adherent. Thanks

EMILO2STAY:
you should quote lordreed and not me. Pls don't call me pussies if you can't disprove me.

Lol.

I needed to show him again using your post that his lines are wack.

You are a pussiiee dude. But this is not my league so enjoy your show. Wish Mazaje, Logicboy and militant atheists with vast knowledge on science subject could be here. You will blown to pieces before 10 posts.

EMILO2STAY:
every single response you have made since this debate has reversed to shoot you on the foot. I will advise you not to engage in further debates so as to save your self some shame and embarrassment like it happend to your fraudulent science icons in the michelson and Morley experiment.

LordReed, please take this advise with good heart. I know and wish you can beat this emilo2stay pussiiee, what your points are too weak abeg. Happy new year buddied

shadeyinka:
I wasn't slighting you FOLY even though I think I know a little of the Yoruba worship/incantation and It's divination to know that:
I have never ever seen any of the Odu IFA or any incantation translated into English language except for academic purpose and certainly not practical purpose. Please if you know of one example that is (divination or incantation), please I'm willing to learn.

This is an example below: all said in Yoruba (even though the IFA priest is most likely Brazilian)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7D1gjUmoTw

I just need an example in English, Spanish, Portuguese or French and I'll be satisfied NOT like the example below (which is a pseudo Yoruba language)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT9w5TiwM9k

Ifa is a universal spiritual system, and as you mistakenly posited not really a Yoruba thing. It only seem to me that Orunmila found the most complex and advance system which encompasses all issues in physical and spiritual world. It is Ifa among the Yoruba people, Fa in vodon people, Kabballa to the Jew, Iching to Chinese, ilm al-raml to the Arabians.

Many of the Islamic scholars who practice ilm al-raml always inscribe Odu Ifa but they chant verses from the Quran which is mainly in Arabic language. Those Imam also practise Isese because ilm al-raml is an aspect of Orunmila Ifa system.


The beauty of Yoruba language is natural and can be easily altered when translated to other languages. Many of you Christians use the appellation of an Orisha for Jesus and Jehovah. Example is Ori which is a divinity convinced with Jehovah. Therefore, it is the best thing to do to relate with Yoruba spiritual system in Yoruba Language but Yoruba Language isn't the absolute tongue for consulting Ifa.

An Odu narrates about how Ifa speak Tapa even when Orunmila do not understand Tapa language. Will surely make my findings on the particular Odu.

Santeria is founded on Orisa system mixed with Christianity. In many cases, practitioner of this religion pray to Ogun (angel michael) in English and in the church. Therefore, whether they refer Ogun as Angel Michael, or Obaluaye as Saint Lazarus, it never changes the status of Ogun as the Deity of Iron and war. Calling Obaluaye Lazarus has not changed Obaluaye from been the God of infectious diseases. And note, lukumi language isn't Yoruba.

shadeyinka:
Come to think of it: Can an incantation to invoke Ogun or Sango or Sanpona be said in any other language save Yoruba?
No!
You know the reason!?
They can't understand any other language apart from Yoruba: hence to worship them or to invoke them or to pray to them require the use of the language they are accustomed to.

It seems to me your esteemed is in the same class!

Who told you these?

You guys should deal with your Jewish and Arabic Gods, you should stop dragging Yoruba Ancestral Gods into your delusion.

Yoruba Gods exist as Nature. It is different from your jewish god that lives outside nature.

Brazilians consult Orisha in their local language. It doesn't matter if you speak Yoruba or Tapa or Ikale, what matter is understanding the connection between you and orisha.

LordReed:
This how you show us how dumb you are. You could have easily confirmed the speed of the solar system and speed of light to see if they were the same but your dumb brain skips like a scratched CD.

I deliberately wrote "samples of moon rock" because I was using them as an example of how someone could mistake them for the real thing but again you too dumb to know when someone is making an example.

It takes pigheaded foolishness to reject the findings of modern science in favour of a hebrew fairytale.

I have been following your argument. Your lines are very weak. The face saving ad hominem tactics is a sign you are losing it.


@EMILO2STAY is overfed with propaganda and conspiracies. I wish you can counter and trash his points one after the other. Nairaland have lost vibrant scientists, that is why he is jumping everywhere with fallacy. Wish this is my area of expertise.

Goodnight

CaveAdullam:
Lol.
What causes man to have this consciousness of supernatural beings is what I ask for?

Ignorance.

Many at times, man do not fully understand many happenings in his surrounding. And when he yearn for explanations with no answer coming, he develop some bogie man with supernatural powers to fill the gap. A good example is lighting and thunder, men thought it is caused by Sango or Thor. These are all ignorance sparked consciousness.

CaveAdullam:
throwing words here and there is not a prove of intelligence.

A Greek material man told you Zeus exist, instead of you to ask him for the procedures to know Zeus you are here hurriedly coming to a conclusion without any iota of investigations.

No Circumstantial evidence of your investigations. I pity you dear.

What else are we here for? Prove your God exist.

CaveAdullam:
My dear you are more intelligent than this.

What a pity! How can you stoop so low to deny words and their meaning.

If words prove nothing or has no meaning they wouldn't have found their way into the dictionary.

What a denial of the dictionary that was once used by FOLY as a battle axe.

SMH for you.

Another Unintelligent crap. Word is not an evidence for the existence of something. Dragon and unicorn don't exist. Not because we don't have word to describe an imaginary fire breathing beast, the fact is such beast called called dragon doesn't exist.

You ain't making any point.

CaveAdullam:
Wait let me laugh..... Lol

You and I who looks like one going in circles?

It will seems so because I can see the subtle ways you are evading questions and denying words and their meaning.

For the last time prove to me you are not the one going in circles by stating a simple YES or NO to the question below.

Is it because you have not seen or touched yeti that made you believed it does not exist?

I am suspecting you're a kiddo. Asking incoherent question many times won't make your case good.

I have told you, there is no factual evidence to convince any reasonable adult that Yeti exist.

Maybe if you have one, present it

jaephoenix:
Spiderman, Batman, Harry Potter all have names, yet dont exist

I wonder o

CaveAdullam:
So all of a sudden, man that comes from a material world, woke up one Friday morning and started having consciousness of supernatural beings?

You have addressed the crux of the matter. Man came from something. That is what matter. What did your God came from? Nothingness? Prove it.

CaveAdullam:
Did the worshippers of Zeus refuse to show you Zeus or you were not able to follow the procedures for seeing Zeus?

Very poor reasoning there. Zeus is a greek God which doesn't exist today.

CaveAdullam:
Who/what can be uncreated and eternal? How did the dictionary came about these two words?

Another hogwash. Words are mental creation of human. It proves nothing

CaveAdullam:
Atheistic major problem should be what they believe. What is the dictionary meaning of spirit?

According to the dictionary where does spirit came out of something?

Do not be a joker my friend. Did the dictionary not ascribed quantitative and qualitative attributes to God?

: a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions

2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
(Taken from the Merriam Webster dictionary.)

From the above attributes it means God is capable of doing anything or coming from nothing because He has all it takes to maintain that feat. If He cannot come from nothing He then cannot be called God.

A word proves nothing.

CaveAdullam:
The question still remains, is it because you have not seen or touched yeti that made you believed it does not exist? Is this question not simple enough?

You keep going in circle with same balderdash. For umpteen time, there is no factual evidence to justify the existence of Yeti.

How can this be too hard to assimilate?

CaveAdullam:
If the dictionary can give me a reasonable meaning then I will stick with it. The book didn't affirms God as a non existing figure but is very sure that He is either a thing, person, spirit or being.

Supernatural beings are non existents, yet they are God.

Did Zeus exist?

CaveAdullam:
It does not give me a problem except for you and your colleagues that deals with gross matters.

How come did the dictionary came up with the two words uncreated and eternal? Is there really anything like this? Who/what can be uncreated and eternal? or is the dictionary not sure about itself or a liar?

No dictionary defines God as uncreated eternal, it is your own superficial making.

CaveAdullam:
God is an uncreated and eternal being. According to the dictionary He can be a spirit or being. And if you crosscheck your dictionary very well you will see striking qualities that made acquired that feat.

So therefore He can come out of nothing to be a something.

What sort of nonsense is this? God is spirit therefore he can come from nothing.

Where does the spirit comes from? Nothingness?

CaveAdullam:
My question still remains, is it because you have not seen and touched yeti that made you believed it does not exist?

Yeti, just like your God does not exist because there is no factual evidence to prove it existence

CaveAdullam:
So if we go with the dictionary meaning of God it means no one is wrong, that is God exists, even though everyone claim theirs is genuine, because the book recorded it.

The definition applies to things that exist and also non existing figures.

CaveAdullam:
At least with the dictionary meaning God exists be it a thing or a person. The book is strict concerning this meaning and we must abide by it if we truly believe it words.


My God is an uncreated eternal being who also plays the perfect role of a creator.

Uncreated eternal being is as fictional as Yeti which lives on mount Everest. The appellage is useless as it creates for yoou so many problems. Top which is something coming out of NOTHING.

If you aint seeing yourself trapped, the definition aboved shows God is something, and you are telling us here that he is uncreated which mean he popped out of nothing. Can you now explain how something came out of nothing?

CaveAdullam:
my question still remains, is it because you have not seen or touched yeti that made you believed it just a mere fictional character?

It is because there is no factual evidence to butrress that such being exist

CaveAdullam:
So can we now agree that God is a person and not only a thing or just a person entirely?

God can be anything. It can be Tree, River, Mountain, Sun or Human.

CaveAdullam:
About my own God?

Lets first come to a conclusion if God is a person, a thing, both or any.

No, we should get in business right away. You are telling us that creation is a prove that God does exist. It is now your duty to explain to us how your own God came into existence. Was He also created by a SUPER-God?

CaveAdullam:
Not book, not laptop. Have you personally questioned the people living near Mount Everest about yeti?

People in Nepal, Russia and surrounding countries believe there is a monsterious creation living on Mount Everest. They have used footprints, scraps, hair and other unexplainable stuff found on the mountain to justify their claims. Alot of researchers have worked on unravelling this msystery many years ago. However, the conclusion on these investugations havent stopped these folks from either worshipping Yeti or believing a Ape-Man figure lives on the Mountain.

The point here is that the fictional figure doesnt exist, and it does have a name. This is a fact that negate your position, and also juxtapose that your God might have a name but that doesnt affirm it existence.

CaveAdullam:
What makes you think yeti is a fictional character? Is it because you have not seen or touched it?

Just like your God, there is no iota of evidence or fact to posit that he does exist.

nevertheless, Yeti in movies is friendly to kids

CaveAdullam:
What do you think is meaning/definition of God according to the dictionary?

God is someone or something that is particularly revered, worship, admired, idealised and/or followed. God is that sense could be anything in as much more value is added to it. Eg, money: the God of ages.

In all sides, the above definition is a about a 'thing or person' called God which is within existence, caused or created.

Tell us about how your own God is caused, came into existence or created? Where did he get the material needed for his creations? Where was he before he created heaven and earth?

CaveAdullam:
Did you tell them to show you yeti?

Yes. There is a book about the animal. I also have some movies on my laptop here about it. So many people believe Yeti exist on month everest.

Just to show you, that some fictional character have a name doesn't mean they truly exist.

Emusan:
Are you the one asking this question?

I am getting confused about him. At a point, he was very evangelical. At a point, he appears to have a disdain for Jesus and Christianity. Now he is bashing white Jesus. I don't understand him at all.

@frosbel2, are you a christian?

I will like to come in here sir.

CaveAdullam:
Name of the first bacteria?

Was God created? How did he came into existence?

CaveAdullam:
What does not exist does not have a name.

Next please.

Yeti is a name of an animal that exist only in the imaginations of those that believe in mythical figures. It doesn't exist.

In the village working on his new movie

MuttleyLaff:
shadeyinka wetin you type, wey dey come hide up there, you even for don price and buy "you're banned" market sef. Sorry ooo.

PS: FOLY, I havent forgotten about you, my response is on the back burner half done. Will it across asap. Watch this space

Me wey dey use you rehearse. I am preparing a war with a church in my locality.

The last time, the evangelist said in a shaking voice I shouldn't ask questions that can lead believers astray. He is the one who came to my flat and invited me to worship in his church. I told to the overhead pastor I be keferi but they dragged me in.

I don know my weakness with your help. You go hear report on sunday.

MuttleyLaff:
The verse actually in the original text talked about the humble ones, which is why I put in humble in brackets. Everything Jesus commanded and/or talked about is for everyone who has ears to listen and hear with. There is no discrimination

This morning, a music playing from a nearby church caught my attention. The song is written by Lara George, and titled Ijoba Orun. The lyrics goes thus " heaven is the reward for Christians. The earth is a marketplace, heaven is the home, father lord take me home"

The Christians hold that heaven is their home, not earth.

MuttleyLaff:
Nope sire, my dear Sir. Kingdom of heaven is not the same as heaven itself, besides I keep informing you that going to heaven is a honeymoon journey, that everyone is coming back down to earth, lol, after it

Are these your thoughts or God's message? If it is the latter, back it up Sir.

MuttleyLaff:
I already do. You should do same too but carefully and thoughtfully be reading it

It is true and a statement of fact. No one could kill Jesus. No one could take His life from Him. Jesus because He had no sin couldnt die, lol. FOLYKAZE, do you know how people die with their last breath, hmm? OK, do you know how Jesus died with His last breadth, lol? Fyi, Jesus would have hanging on that cross indefinitely without dying, had it been that He did not give up His life Himself by exhaling His, a last breath. He warned God in advance He was about to do just that, lol, when He at Luke 23:46, said, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit" Jesus literally and practically there and then laid down His life, lol. It is not suicide. Suicide is taking ones life, Jesus laid down His life for all humanity, that's you inclusive FOLYKAZE. Praise God. Alleluia.

My dear friend, you are not reading the bible enough or possibly do not understand it enough. I believe your problems from both sides.

John 10:18 emphatically exposes the fallibility of your augment that Jesus was killed. That verse shows he wasn't killed but he committed suicide, in his own accord, according to his wish, he willingly terminated his life.

As if that is not enough, you are presenting another vague verse that buttressed my point that Jesus indeed committed suicide. In your own words, "

Jesus would have hanging on that cross indefinitely without dying, had it been that He did not give up His life Himself". This statement reveals Jesus wouldn't have died, but he intentionally terminated his own life by submitting his ghost to God.

The first-two line of argument shows that Jesus in his own accord, willingly and intentionally ends his own life. Intent is the base of suicide. Therefore Jesus committed suicide.

MuttleyLaff:
Yeah, that true, He could have, if it were in a Hollywood or Nollywood movie FOLYKAZE, only all that ideas werent in the God script Jesus is acting from, lol

Reading John 14:31, I can say you are right, the whole martyrdom and suicide acts were scripted by God and his son. Jesus actually believed he will resurrect and return to God in heaven, it is actually Christians of today who have refused to escape suffering maybe because they do have strong faith that there truly exist a heaven.

MuttleyLaff:
C'mon now FOLY, you're bigger than this. Why trying to pull wool over our eyes here now. Philippians 2:5-11 is talking about humility, saying be humble like Jesus is. It doesnt anywhere support or advocate for suicide. You're scampering all the bible out of fear, looking for anything to clutch at, as if to save you from drowning, simply just so to get an upper hand. Na wa ooo, smh.

That verse didn't truly say one should or must commit suicide, but it says one should "think and act" like Jesus. If Jesus could have walked on water, and Peter could "think and acted" like he did, every Christians should simply give their spirit to God so that they can join Jesus in his kingdom.

MuttleyLaff:
When will you get FOLY that none of the 300 commands of Jesus Christ advises anyone to commit suicide. There 1050 commands in the New Testament, not a single one puts forward a case to commit suicide, they tell you to endure suffering, but dont urge you to take your life

Warped reasoning. Who enjoys prison when there is a total freedom at home?

Can you show me a verse from the 1050 commandment that condemn suicide?

MuttleyLaff:
Islamic bombers viewed as martyrs took their lives with the own hands, and so committed suicide, Apostle Paul on the other hand did not by his own hands kill himself. He did not commit suicide but was killed by other for his faith and religious belief. Its like chalk and cheese, they arent the same thing FOLY

Suicide does not necessarily mean killing oneself by oneself, it rather mean the act of INTENTIONALLY CAUSING one's own death.

You might of heard "suicide by cop" where someone could be provoking an armed officer into using lethal force against them. Or a situation where someone would jump into wide animal so they can be caught and eaten alive. A case study from the bible is Abimelech (Jud 9:54) who was killed by his servant, all these are cases of Indirect suicide.

An indirect suicide is the act of setting out on an obviously fatal course without directly committing the act upon oneself. The difference between direct suicide and indirect suicide is defined by the fact that the actor does not pull the figurative (or literal) trigger.

Apostle Paul was killed because he provoked Emperor Nero to do so. Actually, the act of beheading him was done by Nero but who intentionally caused the act? Paul himself.

MuttleyLaff:
Do you believe Ecclesiastes 12:8? Do you believe that life is pointless and/or meaningless, hmm?

Personally, I have crafted a point for my existence in life. For Christians who have a mansion in heaven, their existence on earth is pointless.

MuttleyLaff:
Of course, I easily can but what good will it do if I should, if not only waste the verses on you, but just to make the effort, here are a few for you to fill your boots up with: 1 Peter 5:10, 1 Peter 2:20, 2 Corinthians 1:7, Matthew 5:11, Matthew 19:29, Romans 8:17, Acts 5:41 etcetera

I am disappointed sir. Did you even read those verses before pushing the submit button? I guess No.

Let me tell you something, a quick read of three of quoted verses didn't anywhere encourage long suffering. It rather pacify and bring those suffering a form of hope, and better life.

Matt 5:11-12 reads; blessed are you..... Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven,...

1 pet 5:10 reads; And after you have suffered A LITTLE WHILE, the God of all grace, who has called, will himself restore you to his eternal glory...

2 Cor 1:7 reads;... You will also share in our comfort.

All the three verses are not telling us to endure long suffering or continually suffer, it rather gave a hope that the suffering won't be long lasting, and will be suffixed with comfort and so many rewards in heaven.

I pray tell sir, the reward according to Matt 5, is it going to be given heaven as the bible accounted or on earth as you posit?

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, we've now almost countless time being up this garden path. Who gold paved street anywhere epp? Heaven is a honeymoon journey for crying out loud. Everyone is coming back down to earth.

It will interest you to know that every living being instinctively wants a better environment and life than the one they have. A big mansion in gold paved street, with fitted infrastructure mean ALOT to billions of homeless people out there.

Where did you get this honeymoon trip to heaven from? Can you please tell me?

MuttleyLaff:
You've being pulling and trying every trick in your bag, I guess this the time for trying the console one, erhn? Try to butter me up by cheering me suicides in other faith. Sorry to burst your bubble, believers aren't neccesarily encouraged to take their lives

It is not a trick, it is fact.

Islam outrightly condemn suicide, same cannot be said about Christianity.

MuttleyLaff:
Those are cults, fanatics, extremists, crackpots etcetera and you know that

Is the Redeem pastor mentioned in the OP a cultist?

MuttleyLaff:
Here we go again. When is FOLYKAZE going to get it, that
believers aren't in a rush or have a reckless haste, to go to heaven.

I was thinking loud. Brought this topic out in the church two weeks ago... I saw the Evangelist angry and boiling. Almost turned the whole church outside down.

Like I asked in the church, instead if believing there is a heaven somewhere, shouldn't christians who can't move there cause they don't trust the place exist enough just forget about heaven and all the fantasy attached to it, and make this world a better place?

If you trust heaven enough, why should you endure suffering? Why wallowing in prison when you have a mansion and Olympic size swimming pool somewhere else?

MuttleyLaff:
"But the meek (i.e. the humble) will inherit the land (i.e. the earth)and enjoy peace and prosperity."
- Psalm 37:11

... and FOLY you think this hope of better life and promise to prepare a conducive home for His believers is in heaven, huh?

If you didnt know that Heaven, is a honeymoon trip, gone on and to return back from, come down and back to earth to, then you seriously are in dire need, to go on a speed/crash course, to learn on how to, on all levels, understandably read the Bible. C'mon now, you do know that after the honeymoon in heaven, everyone is coming back to earth, hmm or didnt cha know that, lol?

That verse above talked about the meek ones... Anyone, including the pagans can be meek. It has nothing to do with Christians or Christianity.

Matt 5:3 mentioned "blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
John 14:3 mentioned "... I will come again, and receive you unto myself ; that where I am, there ye may be also"
1 thes 4:17 mentioned " then we which are alive and remain shall be caught together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air..."

Those three verses indicate that Christians are going to heaven. We ain't discussing about meek ones but Christians sir.

MuttleyLaff:
"My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."
Galatians 2:20

FOLYKAZE, please dont, dont insult my intelligence with your "Jesus Himself laid down his life which amounts to suicide" remark. Jesus an innocent man was crucified, period. He was killed, He did not commit suicide. OK, so what, you want to flag it as suicide, yeah? Well it a righteous suicide by a righteous Man. This singular holy act cannot be done by anybody else. Judas Iscariot, committed suicide. What Judas Iscariot, did amounts to suicide, but not our Lord Jesus Christ, His laying down His life does not in any way amount to suicide. In fact Himself said that "There is no greater love than this: that a person would lay down his life for the sake of his friends." That's what Jesus did, give love, no commit suicide

Dear mr Muttley, you need to read your Bible more.

According to John 10:18, Jesus wasn't really killed, he laid down his own life which equals to suicide.

The verse reads, 'No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up..."

A superman like Jesus could have cursed the armies who nailed him to death like he did to the fig tree. He could have used his army of angels to fight on his behalf or simply disappeared. He didn't do any of this but committed suicide.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, anyone can be a hero, like give up their lives for saving another, maybe from fire, drowning, wild animal attack, getting hit by a car, train or bus, take a bullet shot for another, the list goes on, but FOLY no one can do a Jesus, no one can be like Jesus, this meaning, no one can die for the salvation of humans. No one can repeat, copy and/or perform again what Jesus did. What Jesus did, you seem to want it commonised, but it is just not possible. It isnt possible because, it requires a sinless person only to do. It requires someone free from sin, like only Jesus Christ to be able to pull it off and make it worthwhile.

The steps Jesus taught his disciples to tred and follow, is to die to self. Jesus never in His 33 years on earth, not once and/or anytime ever suggested or recommended suicide. Agbẹdọ, Ọlọun ma jeka rogun agbako. God forbid that kind bad thing

Firstly, Philippians 2:5-11 instructed that Christians must think and act like Christ Jesus.

Secondly, I am not asking anyone to be a hero by saving someone or sacrificing their life like Jesus did. All I am saying is that Christians should do what their lord did, commit suicide ad move to heaven. The purpose here is escaping earthly suffering among others.

MuttleyLaff:
Apostle Paul according to you might have spelt it out, but did Apostle Paul spell out committing suicide as a means and/or way out of this our challenging world. Did he himself actually commit suicide?. Having suicidal thought is clearly different to an actual suicide nah.

Who golden streets epp? You want them to die and go to heaven, right? Even after now knowing, that after the honeymoon in heaven, everyone is coming back to earth, hmm? It is only a wicked and twisted person, which I am sure you arent necessarily are, will be pushing with this persistent diabolical persuasion that some others should commit suicide. Kilode gan? Wetin sef? Why? Is it your life?

The death of St. Paul is not found in the bible, but tradition holds that he was beheaded i rome and thus died as a martyr.

Please note, the difference between suicide and martyrdom is the press cover. Many Islamic view bombers as martyrs but the other side see it as suicide.

Apostle Paul not only thought of committing suicide, he indeed committed one.

MuttleyLaff:
Take out your beef with the Owner or just bear in mind that every suffering for Christ' sake and/or for the kingdom, like every wickedness, is rewarded. I reiterate, God rewards suffering for righteousness’ sake

Dont be disrepecting God who commanded that the earth be subdued with this your devil-may-care remark.

That is your own make up sir.
Eccl 12:8 shows the pointlessness of human activities.

Can you show us verse that states there is a reward for enduring pains n earth?

MuttleyLaff:
You're increasingly beginning to come across as a one-trick pony playing the same broken vinyl record suffer suffer head over and over again.

FOLY, now, I am going to give you a break, yeah, I am because I try to be just, fair and do things above board. You can if overwhelmed by suffer suffer commit suicide, but ah, hang on José before you run with this, there is a proviso. The proviso is you get authorisation or clearance from God before doing it. Anyone that is anybody in the Bible that nursed suicidal thoughts, first sought approval from God about it, it is only Samson that got God's consent for him to commit suicide. Brandstudio01 stick your fingers in your ear and cover your face and eyes with your palms so not to have heard or read this tough meat, lol.

FOLY, I almost forgot to reiterate that, the devil is the only person that suggests to another person, to go kill themselves. He did it in both the beautiful lushful garden and also in the wilderness harsh garden with the two Adams respectively. Think about that, lol

You see bro, I am not Christian and wouldn't want to commit suicide because I don't believe there is a place with big mansion, transparent cities and gold paved street anywhere. That is entirely a religious people thing.

Hey, suicide isn't a thing of Christianity only. It is present in Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Zoroastrism and so many religions out there. At many points, adherent of these faiths have committed suicide and will continue committing suicide.

Many people before the coming of Jesus, during the reign of Jesus and after his reign on earth have committed suicide. Many Christians committed mass suicides. So this is nothing new.

My issue here is why would a christian who has a a faith in heaven, a beautiful place where pains, hunger, suffering, depression and hopelessness do not exist, want to continue ensuring pain and suffering on earth? Doesn't this suggest heaven is not real?

Brandstudio01:
Lols. It's well with you my brother

Very well my brother. It just doesn't make sense enduring all pains when there is a better place with mansions and gold paved streets, a place where all suffering ends.

Would you have prefer prison to your home? Read revelation 12:12 for more understanding

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, there is nothing in Jesus' teaching about heaven that encouraged believers to necessarily take their lives in their own hands. Jesus advised some extreme things to do in order to safeguard ones place in the kingdom of heaven but taking ones life to do this, isnt among the list. Sorry. Jesus just didnt teach anyone to take their lives, period.

Oga Muttley, Jesus also did not condemn taking of one's life. He actually gave a hope of better life in heaven and promised to prepare a conducive home for his believers. In John 14, he promised to prepare a place; with big mansion-houses, great cities paved with gold.

Jesus himself laid down his life which amounts to suicide. If Christians follow the steps of Jesus, they should also commit suicide just like there lord did.

MuttleyLaff:
Heavenly eternal bliss, is not running away. It is there, ever waiting for all who desire it. Heavenly eternal bliss, doesnt require and/or want anyone running to it by cutting short their lives on earth. No!

Earthly suffering is unending esp now we live in it (Rev 12:12). Many at times, when suffering become unbearable, the last resort should be escaping the suffering for an eternal bliss in heaven.
Job, Jonah, Jeremiah and Elijah all concluded the only last resort after a long suffering is been dead and make it to heaven.

Apostle Paul spelt it out that living in heaven with Jesus is far better than ensuring suffering coupled with sickness and disease on earth. With the options available, christians should commit suicide and move to their mansions and golden streets. Holding unto earth only exposes that heaven is farce.

MuttleyLaff:
Besides, FOLY, it might interest you to know that suffering is a virtue. Our God, is longsuffering in silence. Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior often said: suffer the children to come to Him. Also, Isaiah 53 the Suffering Servant, is a prophecy about Jesus. Last point FOLY, right from the beginning and actually before the fall from grace, God said: "subdue the earth" Subdue, as a matter of fact, has a ring of conquer, get the better of, overpower, overcome, gain control of, master, suppress, gain the upper hand over, triumph over, tame, defeat, vanquish etcetera meaning to it. Its no wonder, God rewards suffering for righteousness’ sake

Are you for real? Does the amount of suffering one endures equals how big one mansion-houses would be in heaven? What is the gain of all the sufferings? David declared it is all vanity.

All efforts on earth is vanity, therefore if you subdue the earth, it is in vain. So hello bro Muttley, only an original suffer head who doesn't have an assurance that there is a heaven would continue enduring suffering on earth.

Brandstudio01:
Oga the things of the Spirit is not the carnal minds. For a carnal mind can never understand the the things of the Spirit. Can I asked you sir?
Are you a born again?

Oga no one fill with the Holy Ghost will consider suicide as a second opinion.

Again what makes your walk with the Holy Spirit is the Holly Spirit. Not the Title. That's why a Christian can still die and go to hell Sir

Load of crap.

Jesus did committed suicide and Paul contemplated taking his own life. Are you a better born-again than they are?

Brandstudio01:
Sir your Title does not make you a Christian. No one with deep relationship with the Holy Spirit will think of Suicide sir.

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All Christians who have faith in Jesus and believe his teaching about heaven firmly should willing commit suicide. There is no offence in that.

A christian should avoid earthly suffering through suicide. Why should you deny them heavenly eternal bliss?

Abi I lie MuttleyLaff?

Horlufemi:
Mercury is hard (maybe because of Lagos pollution) But Venus, you can't miss it. Very obvious, it's usually the bright object in the Western sky before sunsets. They follow the sun closely.


1. To the unaided eye, these planets appear starlike. 2. However, the planets moved relative to the stars. For this reason they were called wandering stars. Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer."

I've posted the current config of the sky.

You need to know constellations and identity them to be see the planets move. It take weeks to see the movement.

Use sky map to help you track them easily you will see

Thanks for the headup. I live in Ondo state though and would see if I can see the venus. Will give it a trial this week.

Horlufemi:
If you don't know you can already see them here then you have no no knowledge on this subject matter flat Earth and co.

Yes you can I've already stated there you can see them

Tomorrow morning if it's clear wake up 5 am start watching the east, you'll see Mercury, it looks like a star. I won't vex if you say it's a lie but every week keep checking it after months you won see it again.

This evening from 5 pm look the west you'll see one bright star that's Venus.

Both planets either rise before or sets after the sun.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.stardroid

Use this app for guidance. Sky map by Google. GPS and Data are the key requirements. Use better phone with good GPS o.

I used to enjoy start gazing but Lagos pollution and light pollution is killing the show to only the brightest stars. Still planets are bright enough.

I don't know if portharcourt sky isn't as polluted as Lagos but I beg you look for the Big Dipper constellation watch it all night (I honestly don't know if it's moved to day time or night time) I pray it's in night time. Or the little Dipper they don't rise and set they rotate. It's more easier to understand if you are in countries like Russia.

Look for the southern cross constellation too. I hope it's in night time. The movement action the sky is like following a curve. Make friends in South America, South Africa and Australia.

If they can see it at night at the same time South of them the Earth is not flat.

EMILO2

I have been trying to find it but can't identify it among the million of stars.

Is there any specific feature that one can use to identify this is venus and this mercury, not stars?

Horlufemi:
I don't know where you got your information from but I can bet it with you that you no one ever said you can only see Venus and Mercury at night. I've seen both Venus and Mercury in the evening way before the sun sets or after the sun rises depending on where they are. You didn't perform actual experiments, you were told by FErs and you just believed.

For your informate on a clear morning check tomorrow 5:30 am in the east you'll see Mercury. You might thing it's a star but it's a planet. Planet: To the unaided eye, these planets appear starlike. However, the planets moved relative to the stars. For this reason they were called wandering stars. Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer." because in a few months it won't be there anymore and after a few months it will change to been seen before and after sunset from before and after sunset. Time to see Mercury is shorter than Venus. You'll see Venus setting with the sun till at most 7:30pm. Today.

Do the experiment yourself or you can decide to shout "It's a lie"

You have the freedom to believe whatever you believe.

You will never see these planet after those times.

Can this observation be carried out in our obodo Nigeria?

I will like to see those planets.

How and when can I see venus and Mercury pls?

MuttleyLaff:
budaa, FOLYK and other interrested parties, please dont click on my post above to quote it because it might cause you to get banned if you do. Copy whatever in it, you want to comment on into a fresh or new post

I saw that the anti spam bot shot at your previous post, that bot don get craze for head.

MuttleyLaff:
I hope you guys know I was interested in the Yoruba and/or Ibo worshiping the the object, the creation, the sun as a god. It is because of the seemingly apparent relationship of flat-earthers with sun worshiping.

MuttleyLaff:
but I am talking of the sun being the object of worship as done by others like the he Egyptians, to the Greeks, the Hindu Indians, the Mayas of Mexico and Central America, the Incas or South American Indians of the Andes region, the Japanese, etcetera. The Yoruba or Ibo, must have known something for not joining the bandwagon that took fancy to worshiping an object of creation, the Sun, so I thought.

I will like to inform you that there are 401 deities in the Yoruba spirituality system. 200 dwell and reign in Orun, while the other 200 dwell in Aiye. The Supreme singularity that reign across Orun and Aiye is the Olodumare.

From my observation, Yoruba people focus on the 200 deities which are at reach and easily accessible to them. These are the deities that impacted there personal life and which they can interrelate with.

Even at that, the 200 deities which are with us on earth are only recognised base on importance and value. Take for example, Ifa has a lot of importance to the Yoruba existence and spirituality as a whole. Osun is important to them in Osogbo but have lesser value among the Ondo people who value Ogun more. Yemoja and Olokun is valued around the coastline while Ayelala is valued among the Ikale people. I think the influence of these Orisha and acceptance is based on the value such Orisha have on the people.

Orunmila, Sango, Ogun, Esu, Egungun, and Oro are the most influenced deities among the Yoruba people. These are not up to 16, and we have 200 deities. So, only an initiate can give you a comprehensive list of these 200 deities reigning on Earth.

Now think about it, Eledumare that reigns over both realms is worshipped less. Infact, there is no dedicated shrine for Eledumare. Why, because there are deities that are closer to us and those deities should get our attention instead of running to deities who are million miles away from us.

Therefore, with limited information about the 200 deities that reign in Orun, only an initiate can affirm if Sun as an entity and deity is among them. However, Sun as a God do not have influence on the general existence of Yoruba people. And maybe they don't see value in it.

Obalata I know represent light and everything that illuminates.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLYK, I wonder if in the Yorubas and/or Igbo mythology, they are flat-earthers.

Obi ri-aiye - spherical earth
Ibi aye n yi lo - where the earth is rotating to
Eda aye kan kan n o mo - no living being knows.

The Yoruba people believe the earth is spherical and it is rotating.

MuttleyLaff:
Fill your boots, sink and get your teeth into the video data above, that I got, courtesy of Truthwords.

I know all that. I get all that, but I am talking, specificallyof the sun god. Yoruba and/or Ibo worship rivers, trees, rocks etcetera but why does it seem that the sun slipped through their net of worshipping it, like some others widely did or do? FOLY, I think your valued expertise on indigenous mythology and/or pantheon, is requested and/or need here about this, lol.

Muttley, Obatala is the deity of light, that covers everything that illuminate, including the sun.

Ihedinobi3:
Yes it was. Was the Lord Jesus in the Grave for a literal 72 hours, not one second more or less? No. But the Bible did not say that He would be. It only said that He would be in the Grave for three days and three nights. That was counted differently in that culture than it is today. Even today, though, we are hardly so hard and fast about these things. Today we say, "I spent the whole day there just waiting to see him," and fully expect the person we're talking to to understand that we were not counting the seconds to make sure that it was exactly 24 hours.

The point of the three days and three nights was to emphasize that the Lord Jesus's Body would not "see corruption," that is, it would not decay. Decay was culturally accounted back then to begin from the fourth day (see John 11:39). The Lord was to be in the grave long enough for it to be clear that He was truly dead, but not so long that His Body, which was sinless, would begin to decay. Again, this is a cultural thing, since, with our scientific obsession with precision today, we sometimes consider a body to begin to decay right from the moment of death. But if we were to be absolute, then decay starts even while we are alive whenever cells die and are not replaced in our bodies.

In the time that the Lord lived, a day was counted if a part of it was experienced, so although the Lord rose from the dead early in the morning of the third day, the fact that He was still in the tomb by the third day made it a complete three days for Him to be dead.

Sometimes, the Scriptures do use "precision counting" sometimes to make a point. For example, in Revelation 11:9, the two witnesses are said to be dead for three days and a half. This is deliberate because it is a symbol for the three and a half years of the Great Tribulation that follow their death. Otherwise, day counts in the Bible follow the culture of the day.

Brilliant

Guestlander:
I said you are right! What else do you want?

Just leave him to wallow in his stupidity and arrogance.