₦airaland Forum

Righteousness89:
The Problem of The World is SIN..

Sin Is Cancerous....

Sin is A Destroyer

Religion brought the concept of sin. There is no sin anywhere. And that concept like you said is cancerous, destroyer and a pathetic problem to nations.


The problem is sin, and sin is a product of religion. As such, religion is the problem.

desiredhome:
It's not just religion, it's black man with black mentality, religious leaders(Pentecostal pastoprenours)/politicians are only taking advantage of high poverty rate caused by this black mindset, thus they are backward,
After all there are religion developed countries.

Could you please the so called religious developed countries?

MuttleyLaff:
Somebori please give these guys, Righteousness89, desiredhome, orisa37 and EmperorHarry an "oti sẹwọn" chilled cold bottle of orijin and a truckload of kolanuts.

They should have oti sewon for displaying crass ignorance and vomiting garbage?

You should help them out instead of cheering them.

List the benefit of religion to Africa as a whole. Give me ten example of how religion has benefited us here.

What is the contribution of religion to our national development?


With religion, esp the foreign ones, we have more social vices and instability than ever witnessed in African history. Is this what you call benefit?

I heard there was a crisis in Araromi Obu. The sporadic news spread by people is that Fulani are attacking locals there. I have made some calls and found out it is communal clash between Ikales and Settlers. The clash has been on for years.

The Government should do something quick about false news. The way people twist any issue and blame it on Fulani is alarming and can spark uprising in the future. The aftermath outcome will be unbearable for those forming the fake news and those spreading it.

futurist369:
remember, on johnydon22's thread.....i was discussing with the guy, and said am an o lvl dude.....and you insulted me indirectly

The girl na something else. You slug issues like you guys are sworn enemies. I saw her ran into discussion by quoting me, her utterance were bad. So nothing new.

Just be cool with her, she may be angry or something yesterday. From her previous posts, I assume she dey nice.

Na you I ddy talk about Anas09

Makschinchin:

Na so we see am

OkCornel:
First things first, if you know your purpose here on Earth and you live a purpose driven life... why would you ever think of suicide?

I will to know the purpose why God created human. And what is your own purpose here? Did God create you to endure suffering and pains?

OkCornel:
Secondly, the book of Revelation makes it clear that the kingdom of heaven is not for cowards...

It is only you and your comrades that is showing cowardice and lack of confidence in what you believe. If heaven is real, you would have port there.

OkCornel:
Finally, I hope you're not misinterpreting being martyred for the truth to be the same thing as suicide.

Which ever one you call it is Suicide.

Martyr is Altruistic Suicide

MuttleyLaff:
You dont understand. It is not what you think, that suicide and depression has anything to do with martyrdom of the early Christians. I presume that OkCornel opened up this thread because of seeing the antics of popular and widely know FOLY.

The thread is old, I only resurrect because we are discussing something related

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, is someone who happens to have this wacky idea and morbid fascination in wanting to be seeing people, christians/believers especially committing suicide. FOLY is that death-obsessed, he is encouraging people, christians/believers in particular, with reasons, why they should be taking their lives, just die and die off.

Haba. Na you of all people dey do this?

I wasn't the one who asked over 750 members of People's Temple to terminate their lives. It happened in Jonestown, in USA.

I wasn't the one who asked over 900 people in Uganda to kill thenselves.

I read about these incidents and drew a pattern. That they believe in Christ, that they believe heaven is real, and that they believe when they die, they are going to make it to heaven. In order to escape hypocrisy and continual sin, they committed suicide and moved on.

You acclaimed Christians believe in Jesus and also that there is a better world for you. If these beliefs are truth, why ain't you confidence enough to take your life and move there? Could this mean heaven isn't reality and you guys are only given oneself some hopeful wan ky panky fantasy?

I have given you enough chance to establish a line of defence from the scripture where God frowned or forbid suicide but you have not been able to stretch out any tangible and coherent point. Also, I have showcased with different suicide reports in the bible that God approved and assisted suicide, and in the evidences from Abimelech who wasn't punished for suicide, it has shown God do not condemn and necessarily condone suicide.

The next checker move would validate or not if the heaven you lots claim that exist truly does. If it is, you will all be eager to catapult there. The fear and cowardice been displayed toward suicide, even when God condone it, tells that the heaven claim is just a paradise on lip, it isn't real. But what else do you have, lets see.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, just doesnt give up. FOLY, did God that put human beings on earth, ask them to hurry back and come to heaven ni? If you know of any place where God did say this, then kindly please point me to where and show me please

How many times do I have to tell you the cogent factor that define 'suicide'? The intent or intention is CONSTANTLY from human (suicider), not God. If the intention is from God, then it is not suicide any longer.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, even, if in this place, there is pain, suffering, tribulations, disease and depression, so what?. Kini big deal? Shey na you send me put for earth ni? Pesin wey put me here, is not in a hurry of having me back nau. FOLY, we have made our beds and so going to lie in it.

Thank goodness you admit that the world is not a bed of roses. We are making progress.

The tenet of your faith is to live a life better than what you have now. This isn't just about living, it is living eternally, this is a feet that cannot be achieved on earth. Not only that, there will be no more pain, suffering, disease, tribulation and agony. Another important thing, there will be no more sin.

God give human the gift of breathe and life (Isaiah 42:5). Not only that, he give human the freedom of choice ( 2 cor 3:17). For survival, the migration pattern of any organism is always in the direction of better places than where they were.

Therefore, unless Heaven is not real, unless you do not have confidence in your faith, unless the whole promises are mere paradise on the lip, you would want to move to a world where all struggles ain't present.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, we haven't committed suicide and ported to heaven yet because life on earth is for the enjoying.

What exactly are you enjoying in this world? I will like to know.

MuttleyLaff:
There’s plenty of time to commit suicide, if that's your thing.

Nah, it is not my thing. You see, I don't have alternative to this life I am living today, so I am giving it my all. I don't have a heaven or paradise. I know I am returning to nothingness which is another long painstaking boredom. Infact, I don't want to go to life beyond. Cuz it scares me.

And hey, we are different sir. You have the best of the the best alternative. I wouldn't understand why you chose to endure pains and suffering. To what end? The end is always death which you could have given yourself.

MuttleyLaff:
To commit suicide is easy, but to live on earth, that you say is full of pain, suffering, tribulations, disease and depression, that is difficult. Why cant you advise to find something on earth to live for, instead of encouraging people with reasons to die for? Why your morbid fascination in seeing people commit suicide, erhn? Why are you death-obsessed in other people's untimely death, hmm?

Suicide is a valid last resort for those enduring major pain or trauma. It affects no one and is potentially to the advantage of the individual. Why would you prolong a miserable existence, because of some frivolous advantage which the public may perhaps receive from you?

Encouraging someone to continue miserable existence is the worst crime. Because you are wishing such person more pain and sufferings. That is wickedness.

In this world we are, when you find something to live on, there will be multiple problems to die for. The only something that one should live for is complete elimination of all problems which is impossible. So why would I ask you to juggle more for impossibility?

A world without problem is heaven. Up there you can enjoy all the bliss till eternity. Since you believe there is such place, I will fuucckkingg advice you to move there. And that is the right advice.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, do you hear OkCornel, say: "early believers Christians persevered to the very end despite the hardships they faced in their time". Now, that should make your arguments, case closed.

To what end? How will you define end? And is it that ends that open the tunnel to heaven? Where are your bible backing?

OkCornel:
The point of this thread is to show how early Christians perservered to the very end despite the hardships they faced in their time.

They were not Lily livered or faint hearted like the self professed Christians...some of which are battling depression and committing suicide today...


I hope this is basic enough for you to understand...

Cc: Agrogbeide, elated177, maximus69, guess who showed up here... after dodging questions on the tithes and first fruits thread...


Please check the content of what this thread is about and check Dencotext's response...then tell me if he is really sane...

Interesting topic you have there. I think MuttleyLaff and me can take our turn here instead of derailing that other beautiful thread.

This time, out vocal point will be suicide and heaven. As a christian, you believe there is a heaven, under the rulership of Jesus. In this place, there is no pain, suffering, tribulations, disease and depression. It is eternal bliss and infinite merriment. If this place is real, why are you still here on earth? Why haven't you commit suicide and have yourself ported to heaven? Could your insistence on staying on earth with struggles and pains mean heaven isn't real?

OkCornel:
Lol... someone is trying to justify suicide with the Bible... just as how someone was trying to justify homosexuality with the Bible some days ago

Interesting days we are living in...


Perhaps justifying masturbation and use of sex dolls would be the Bible study topic for the coming days...

The discussion was opened but you were no where to be found. If your heaven is real, why can't you commit suicide and port there? Simple, just tell us your reasons.

Since it is not about paying tithe and sexual discussion we no dey see you.

@ Makschinchin

You see what I was talking about? Many Christians have sold themselves to condemnation all in the name of belonging. See this thread https://www.nairaland.com/5301288/black-race-cursed-noahs-curse#80270901 many of them said blacks descend from Ham, son Noah and that they are cursed.

Africans, Negros descending from Ham and cursed. MI o gbo ri.

The first thing that happens to man who have no future is losing his History and Heritage. That is good example of hating oneself.

This discussion is getting more interesting. I found some intriguing views. Will appreciate if you can create a nee topic on it.

For the moment, let me address your post.

MuttleyLaff:
Please stop making fetch happen jor. Who doesnt know that suicide is causing ones death intentionally. You just arent seeing the forest for the "intent" trees

It is important to let you see that your argument is driven toward a wrongful path. That only prompted me to provide a definition as a guide to help you find the right path.

From your argument, it reveals your assumption that death is caused by God. This you called the godly death. And that which is caused by men is ungodly death. This is what your argument points at.

And this has made me buttered, with simply definition of suicide. The intention is from the man, not God. Copish?

MuttleyLaff:
I mentioned to you about the just seven suicides and one attempted suicide in the Bible, but it just went swoosh over your head, like as it was a Naija Airforce fighter jet. I hinted at one person getting clearance from God about his intent to kill himself unlawfully whereas the other six didnt. I then asked you FOLY, whether of course you know the symbloic meaning of the number 6 for the total number of suicide committed without involving God in it.

The symbolic meaning of number 6 is inconsequential to this discussion. This is the reason I was silent on it. Unless you can explain how number 6 relates with the topic, there is no point touching it.

MuttleyLaff:
I emphasised that those seven deaths with the exception of Samson, got no authorization from God before taking their lives nor involved God for it to proceed and/or take place. They are deaths brought about and caused by man without God having a say in the choice or decision. They are ungodly deaths, they are death of man and not of God, not santioned by God, hence why their number is 6. The number of man.

Are you implying that Samson suicide case is way above and better than other cases because God approved and assisted it? What also do you mean by ungodly death? Do you have any bible backup to illustrate godly death?

For your information sir, both Samson suicide and other ones recorded with exception of King Saul is known as Assisted Suicide

Assisted suicide is suicide undertaken with the aid of another person. The fact drawn from the suicide cases in bible has shown that a person or God materially helped these people terminate their lives. The only exception is King Saul because he killed himself by himself.

Samson called upon God to assist in taking his life. There were no Israelites or any of his brother there who could have helped him so the only person he could called is God.

MuttleyLaff:
God doesnt condone nor condemn suicide. People, case in point Elijah, Jonah etcetera have approched God for one reason or the other, with their suicidal thoughts of wanting to die. So what am I trying to say here FOLY? I am putting it to you that, God does decline suicidal thoughts and/or suicide requests when the intents are made known to Him

This does not address my point in any way brother. My argument is, Allah spelled it out in the Quran that suicide is a sin. The Quran forbids it by stating "do not kill or destroy yourself". Single and straight to the point. Such instance cannot be found in the Bible. If God truly disallowed and considered suicide wrong, He would have made known in the scripture.

I also drew out another fact with Samson case that God approved and assisted in terminating the life of Samson. This also you agree on.

Another line of argument is that he didn't condemn the act at all. He even partook in assistance in self-life termination as in the case of Samson.

Jonah, Job and Elijah were stopped from killing themselves. God actually declined assisting in killing them. The case is, they begged God to kill them, not that they attempted killing themselves by themselves. These are two different cases; requesting to terminate one's life, and requesting for another person to help you terminate your life. The latter is known as assisted suicide. Therefore, God decline materially helping them die. They could have rip their heart with sword if they had wanted to die.

In view of this, it shows that God supports and sees nothing wrong with suicide.

MuttleyLaff:
"He quickly said to his young armor bearer,
“Draw your sword and kill me! Don’t let it be said that a woman killed Abimelech!”
So the young man ran him through with his sword, and he died."
- Judges 9:54

FOLYKAZE, to say I am horrified at your example choices, is saying the least. Abimelech was an evil man through and through to the core. He was an already dying male chauvinist pig, who didnt want to lose face by people knowing that a woman caused his death, he got men to assist with finishing him off and make it look like he himself killed himself

Oh Muttley, the cruelty and evil deeds of Abimelech is not the bone of contention here, the single of taking his life with the assistance is. Please do not be carried away.

I argued and pointed out that God did not punish Abimelech because he took his life. He punished for killing his 70 brothers. Read a little further to verse 56 and see for yourself.

Judges 9:56 Thus God requited the crime of Abimelech, which he committed against his father in killing seventy brothers:

The ground with which Abimelech was served judgement is killing of his 70 brothers, not suicide. Not punishing him for suicide reveal that God finds nothing wrong with it.

MuttleyLaff:
God accepted Samson's suicide request and allowed, but God never received a suicide request from Abimelech nor the other 5, He allowed the 6 to happen. Like I previously said, something must kill a person, a man has to one day die, so why wouldnt God allow the 6 to die, especially, if bent on killing themselves, hmm?

See as son of Man dey fall hand.... Did you read your post above before pushing the submit button? I am asking because it is filled with face saving nonsense, contraction, inconsistency and poor attempt at strawman.

Samson requested God to assist killing him. A case of assisted suicide. Abimelech also requested his soldier to kill him, another case of assisted suicide. King Saul killed himself with sword, a case of suicide. All these incidents fall under SUICIDE.

You turn around and said God did not receive requests from Abimelech and others but allowed them continue killing themselves, against the 'timely death'. That same God refused condemned the thought and act of killing oneself, he did not punish them, does this not tell you that he sees nothing wrong with the act?

MuttleyLaff:
What's there to condemn about?

Everything!

His refusal to condemn and sanction against Suicide exposes that he allows and see nothing wrong in it

MuttleyLaff:
The verse is teaching not to be selfish, not be self centred, not to be wrapped up in oneself to the extent being preoccupied with oneself only, which exactly is what suicidal thoughts and/or committing suicide is all about. It is about being only concerned about self, yourself to the exclusion of others, how they'll feel, how they'll suffer etcetera

Another hogwash. The whole religion system is about oneself. Singling act of suicide out isn't a wise idea

MuttleyLaff:
"⁵You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day,
⁶nor the plague that stalks in darkness, nor the pestilence that destroys at noon.
⁷Though a thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand, no harm will come near you.
⁸You will only see it with your eyes and witness the punishment of the wicked.
⁹Because you have made the LORD your dwelling— my refuge, the Most High—
¹⁰no evil will befall you, no plague will approach your tent.
¹¹For He will command His angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.
¹²They will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.
¹³You will tread on the lion and cobra; you will trample the young lion and serpent. "
- Psalm 91:5-13

This is supposed to happen in the Armageddon. Not applicable in today world.

MuttleyLaff:
We have shown and explained the 5 facts concerning what transpired on that eventful day of Peter walking on water, but you know, you've lost ground, this is why now you now are clutching at straws mate.

Peter saw Jesus first walking on water, and so asked if he too can do same, but ooh no, FOLY, insists it was foolhardy of Peter to want to copy what he is seeing Jesus do before his own "korokoro" eyes. FOLY, foly, you're a laugh and a half.

I insist Peter was on a suicide mission by stepping his foot on the surface of the Ocean. He was drowning and could have died if Jesus didn't save him.

MuttleyLaff:
Nothing wrong in that. Life is to enjoy nau

Ooh, it is all bed of roses that should be enjoyed. There is no pain, agony, disease, tribulations and disease. What an utopian world you live in MuttleyLaff. Keep denying the obvious fact

MuttleyLaff:
I literally laughed out loud here at you gaffe that Enoch was hurried taken away from Earth by God. Hilarious.

Enoch wasn't allowed to die naturally. Not so? God took him away from the surface of earth. If he been left on earth, he could have lived for 700 or 900 yrs like his father. God hurried took him away.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY how many times do we have to keep coming up this garden path, erhn? For the umpteenth time, Samson's suicide was approved and of God, while King Saul's suicide was unapproved, not of God, thus making it a suicide that's of man

Assisted suicide. Read it up.

MuttleyLaff:
You're right, all you are doing is being just argumentative for argumentative sake

Im having a fine discussion with you on Christianity and suicide, and reason why you can't take your life.

MuttleyLaff:
OK sir, if it'll make you happy, I concur without any demur. At least, Jesus did it with God's approval

So much you agree it is suicide.

The line of our discussion shift to why you haven't attempt same after all the suffering on earth. Pray to God and make your request and afterwards, take the sniper bottle and gulp the content in it.

MuttleyLaff:
"¹To everything there is a season,and a time for every purpose under heaven:
² time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,
³time to kill and a time to heal,a time to break down and a time to build,
⁴time to weep and a time to laugh,a time to mourn and a time to dance,
⁵time to cast away stones and a time to gather stones together, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
⁶time to search and a time to count as lost,a time to keep and a time to discard,
⁷time to tear and a time to mend,a time to be silent and a time to speak,
⁸time to love and a time to hate,a time for war and a time for peace. "
- Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

You really dont get the picture, do you FOLY?. Aside the very instructive Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 above, there is no premature exit, especially, not before you first start and finish fulfilling your purpose on earth. Do you not notice how Jesus tarried until time, when all of sudden, He, in John 12:23, said:"... The time has come for the Son of Man to be glorified."

All time is God time. There is nothing like premature time. A 80 yrs folks still involve in suicide. Death knows no age. It comes and anytime it comes is the right time.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, there is no answer than you dont venture into something not commanded, ordained or expressly asked to do by God

Oh dear, you are mixing things up here. In a very simple definition, Suicide is the act of intentionally causing one's own death. Please note the keyword 'intent'. This implies that the person that take or cause his own life do it within his consent and will, not will of God. Therefore, God cannot expressively ask someone to kill himself.

But unlike Islam, God in Christianity do not condemn suicide action. In the case of Samson, God authorized and assisted in completing the suicide mission just as Samson requested. If God do not accept suicide, he would have decline such request and allow Samson die naturally. With this act, one can argue that Jehovah ordained, accept and approve suicide.

Another case is Abimelech suicide death in Judge 9:50-56. His death is suicide. Abimelech caused his own death by asking his men to kill him. This type of suicide is called Assisted suicide. And if you noticed, God did not punish him for committing suicide, he rather punished him for killing his 70 brothers.

The two cases reveal that God truly accept suicide.

MuttleyLaff:
Just seven suicides and one attempted suicide. One got clearance from God and the other six didnt. FOLY, of course you know the symbloic meaning of the number 6. Those seven deaths with the exception of Samson, got no authorization from God before taking their lives or for it to proceed and/or take place. They are deaths brought about and caused by man without God having a say in the choice or decision

Neither did God outrightly condemn any of them for killing themselves.

MuttleyLaff:
"I protest by your boasting which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily."
- 1 Corinthians 15:31

The bible also hold that men are destined to die once. Maybe the verse you quote is talking about spiritual death.

Revelation 12:12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time has come

The world today is under the rulership of Satan. As a result of this, people will face so much suffering, torment, pain, tribulations, agony and sickness.

When there is a better home in God abode, where there would be no more pains and sufferings, where sickness would be thingy of the past, I wonder why you do not want to accelerate yourself there.

MuttleyLaff:
Ooh, c'mon my guy, dont be like that. What you mean Peter was commanded by Jesus to attempt suicide? You really believe Peter was commanded by Jesus to attempt suicide, hmm? Or you're just having a bit of a wind up and a laugh, erhn?

Suicide by drowning is the act of deliberately submerging oneself in water or other liquid to prevent breathing and deprive the brain of oxygen.

Peter is aware that he could die if he eventually sunk but he took the risk because he had faith in Jesus. What he did was suicidal.

That incident, in a real sense can be described as Jesus asking Peter to attempt Suicide.

Same Satan took Jesus to the high point and asked him to jump. That is a suicide mission because if he jumped, and God refused to levitate and soft landed him, he will die.

MuttleyLaff:
Well fyi, we are not finding life, we are living it and thank you, whoever loses their life for Christ's sake, will find and have it back in the hereafter, is what Matthew 10:39 means FOLYKAZE. Capisce now, hmm?

Hahahaha

Instinctively, no one want to die. People want to enjoy life to it fullness. The survival instinct, struggle to continue live, fight against what could take one life is equivalent to finding life.

Peter was finding life for Jesus, which is why he defend him by cutting off the ear of the soldier that came to arrest him. A typical example of finding life.

Another case is Stephen, he could have asked God to struck those stoning him to death. But he prayed and subjected his life to God.

The case is not same with you and other Christians here. Y'all want to find life upon all the pains and sufferings on earth.

MuttleyLaff:
Have you read anywhere in the Bible ever of God hurrying anyone back, hmm? I dont think you have. Something must kill a man, man will one day die, so, what's the hurry about erhn?

Yes, Enoch was hurried taken away from Earth by God.

MuttleyLaff:
You wont let go of Samson sha, even after being told he took permission and this, for obvious and mitigating reasons, was granted

My argument is backed with reasons too.

1. The suffering and agony, tribulation, diseases and sin on earth.

2. The current world is under the rulership of Satan.

3. Heaven is a better place to be.

Samson went through lot of pains, humiliations and suffering which he requested to put an end to. King Saul went through same experience too. Christians are facing same problems as Samson and King Saul

Samson and King Saul do not want to die in the hand of Philistines. This is applicable to today as Christians should advocate for living with God in heaven under the rulership of Jesus instead of been under Satan (Philistine)

MuttleyLaff:
Jesus submitted his life to God, for God's purpose. Jesus did not in any sense at all, commit suicide. Jesus was killed sentenced to death on trumped up charges, by a biased lot and a kangaroo court trial

It is called
Altruistic suicide sir.

Another form of suicide that relates to Jesus death is called 'Indirect Suicide'.

This is the act of setting out on an obviously fatal course without directly committing the act upon oneself. Indirect suicide is differentiated from legally defined suicide by the fact that the actor does not pull the figurative (or literal) trigger. Examples of indirect suicide include a soldier enlisting in the army with the express intention and expectation of being killed in combat, or someone could be provoking an armed officer into using lethal force against them.

MuttleyLaff:
They are not permitted to

But same God authorised termination of Samson life, and do not condemn Saul or Abimelech for taking their lives? An approval is acceptance.

MuttleyLaff:
"Ani kosi kanju, kanju", I repeat there is no rush to go, Heaven is for eternity, why the rush and hurry to get in there

We are to rough it together on earth, not escaping from it

So you are arguing they should continue suffering?

MuttleyLaff:
Not God/Jesus
I am not 100% sure how it works in Yoruba cosmology, I guess you might be able to shed light on that, but as far as I am know, the Earth is a market place and school, while experience is its hardest kind of teacher of all. We are here on earth to be tested first and then have the lesson after the test. We stay put on earth, nobody on own volition exits. It is only God that has a say in when the time is up to exit.

Yoruba cosmology support suicide so please abort it. Sango committed suicide by hanging. Ogun committed suicide by disappearing in Ire. Orunmila angrily left earth and never returned. These are heroic suicide and martyrdom. Kakaki majesi sesin, a fi iku bora.

So drop that Yoruba spirituality view abeg.

MuttleyLaff:
Parallel kingdoms for now running side by side things going on. I happen to be in the good kingdom parallel one

Lol. Whatever you smoke is strong.

MuttleyLaff:
I too, I cannot come and be suffering, thankfully as things are, I am enjoying and chopping life, and this trend will continue in the hereafter too. "O ti di dandan." It's a sure banker.

Another one !

Baba God cursed man and said he shall earth from his sweat, till the soil for food and labor to survive. Get sick, wrinkle and old and die. This one no apply to you shey?

Oga, the enjoyment of on earth is vanity, sayeth King David. Like a flame, it will vanish for the dead do not known account of his life.

I just can't fathom how you want to grasp on purported vanity, stick to pains and suffering, diseases and tribulation when you have heaven with all the bliss

How did I miss this post? What you got Sis

Makschinchin:
Dear FolyK, I'm not living my life today following the footsteps of the Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ. I am following the footsteps of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The common denominator between you, and members People Temple of the Disciple of Christ is that followership of the footsteps of Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Just as you do, they believe in Jesus too. And that clause validate my question.

Makschinchin:
Jesus didn't commit suicide, so why should I??
Apostle Paul didn't commit suicide, so why should I??
John the Baptist didn't commit suicide, so why should I??
Peter didn't commit suicide, so why should I??
Stephen didn't commit suicide, so why should I??
There's no place in the Bible where any of Jesus' disciples committed suicide, so why should I

As per the bold, isn't Judas a disciple of Jesus? He committed suicide right?

I can use Jesus's death as a case for supporting suicide to Christians.

You may not accept it but Jesus death is suicidal.

Makschinchin:
I didn't give myself life, I didn't bring myself to this world so why should I kill myself.. Why should I purposely commit murder on my own self and go to hell (as I believe) ??

Let me firstly address the emboldened. I can count, on the tips of my finger, people that committed suicide in the bible. None of these people is recorded that they are in hell. As a matter of fact, every soul that die now is in sheol, a place best known as hell. So death isn't a sin that takes one to hell.

In case you missed my point, I am not asking you or anyone to take their life without any reasons. I gave my reasons why suicide should be considered.

1. The hellish condition of the world today. Compounded suffering, pains, agony, illness, hunger, strive, depression, tribulation, temptation and poverty. I can go on and on. Why should you endure suffering when you can easily put an end to it?

2. The current world is under the rulership of Satan. A good christian would want to live in the heavenly kingdom under the rulership of God and Jesus.

3. Instinctively, every person want everything good to himself and loved ones. That which is good is abundant, limitless and infinite in heaven. As a Christian that is convinced heaven is real, why would you want to remain on earth suffering in pain and agony?

4. Arguably, murder is an act of taking someone's life, and as such it is crime legally and religiously. But, suicide isn't murder as you ain't taking someone else life but your own life. And there is no account in the bible where God frowned or condemned such act. In fact, he opened his hands and accept suicidal souls, fastening their death.

With these points, a christian do not have any reason to be here.

Anas09:
If you are going to quote me, pls say what I said not lie with my moniker. I told you not to worry about my responses to you any more. I told you that in 50yrs time from now, most of us alive now will be dead, then we all shall understand all the things we find hard to understand now. I never said we shld suffer. Pls stop lying with my moniker, I hate lies.

As a matter of fact, leave me out of your mentions.
.

My dearie, wetin I do you again? Coolu coolu na. Your response to me is always like I offended you before. Wetin I do you?

I may have misquoted you and I apologise for that. But that doesn't mean I lied against you.

Ire

MuttleyLaff:
Ọrẹ, I've given you a honest truthful and straightforward answer, but you dont want to have it ni. Look at how you walked and stepped on it below with your ill informed understanding of what transpired with Peter, all because you are unaware of the facts. Just thank Eledumare, that I am here to shed light on this for you. Dont mind me, dont even thank me because its on the house

Lol. The answer I wanted is some that addresses my question. And I haven't found any sir.

My question is based in suicide and the Christian view on it. I argued that since they have heaven, they shouldn't be here. When there is an eternal bliss and enjoyment, why enduring long suffering, pains, sickness, wearing and tearing of the body?

Bible record some number of suicide. King Saul, Judas, Abimelech, Samson, Ahithophel and Zimri. At no point was there action discriminated. We may use Samson as another case study.

MuttleyLaff:
, foly, here are 5 facts about Peter and that eventual experience of walking on water:
1/ Peter got clearance and/or authorization to go forth and walk on water
2/ Peter only stepped out on the word, command and beckoning of Jesus Christ
3/ Peter in spite of his weight, defied the law of gravity and did not sink when he put his foot on the surface of water because Peter was standing on the word of Jesus. Praise the Lord!. Somebody shout Hallelujah! Oh I am almost getting goose pimples typing this
4/ Peter kept on being afloat and walked on the water surface for as long as he kept his eyes locked and fixed on Jesus, staring at Him
5/ The moment fright got the better of Peter and he diverted his gaze from locked on looking at Jesus, his short-lived publicity stunt was over, as he suddenly began sinking. If not for Jesus making make a lunge to save him, he would have drowned

Peter attempted suicide and could have drown in that faith test. Like you have laced your argument on Jesus comandment, would you care to note that same Jesus cursed this world and blessed heaven?

Revelation 12:12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time has come

The world today is under the rulership of Satan. As a result of this, people will face so much suffering, torment, pain, tribulations, agony and sickness. Did God created Christians to suffer and endure pain for years? Anas09 even want us to suffer for another 50yrs. Which kind mentality be that when there is a heaven where joy is filled and everyone therein rejoices?

True, Peter was commanded by Jesus to attempt suicide. It is also truth that Jesus instructed his followers not to find life

When Jesus says, “Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it” Matthew 10:39

MuttleyLaff:
As I've previously told you FOLYKAZE, believers arent anyone expected to go out on a limb nor are they expected to succumb to whims and caprices like taking their lives. Life is for living, life is for the experiencing, life is for to "gbadun" (i.e. for to enjoy), life is for to jollificate, life is for "ka fẹyawo, ka bimọ" (i.e. to marry, to have kids) ...

Egbon, there is no enjoyment in life that has already been cursed by Jesus. What we have here are pains, suffering and torment. Moreso, there is eternal life in heaven, Christians should go there and live it with eternal bliss.

MuttleyLaff:
"Yi ẹsẹ rẹ, si apa kan, ma se pa kokoro ni. Kokoro ti iwọ, o le da. Ọlọrun lo le da" loosely translated means "Hey, stop, dont step on that insect to kill it. An insect you are unable to create, its an insect only God is capable of creating" If insects' lives are that sacred and important, how much more are human beings' lives.

Samson took it, Jesus submitted his life to God. They both committed suicide. Why shouldn't other Christians do the same?

MuttleyLaff:
If some day, I have a death wish, maybe I will just try jaywalk across a busy 26-lane highway, like you've advised, but for now, no can do, as I dont want to die now.

Fela song title Amen comes to mind. Suffer suffer for world, enjoyment for heaven.

The question is, do you enjoy and want more suffering? You go be original sufferhead

"Kosi kanju, kanju", there is no rush to go, Heaven is for

MuttleyLaff:
eternity, why the hurry to get in there

A member of the Order of Solar temple left a farewell letter stating that deaths would be an escape from the "hypocrisies and oppression of this world."

Christians too could come up with excuse that the world is hell already, and pick ticket to heaven.

MuttleyLaff:
Who send them? "Talo bẹ, Jero wọn, ni isẹ"

God/Jesus.

If they had wanted end to suffering on earth, they would have sent Satan to Pluto and bless the world. Rather, they sent Satan here, compound our suffering and also cursed the world.

MuttleyLaff:
"Erekere" as in, unplayful thing. Why I go like sniper?. Shey sniper be food ni? Dem dey chop sniper for una house ni? Please ooo, I no wan jam "agbako" (i.e. calamity). "Aiye dun ju iya sniper lọ" loosely translated means "life is better that topping yourself with a suffering of sniper"

Oh ye Man of little/no faith, what business have you and Satan and his kingdom? The kingdom of God is your abode, move them.

Ti ajo o ba gbeni, ile la n f'abo si. Me cannot come and be suffering if I get sure heaven o.

MuttleyLaff:
FOLY, tbh with you, I have being watching and keenly reading as an innocent bystander and normally would have responded to your call-out and shout out saying: FOLY You're on your own buddy, but I had to make an exception, to let you know, that believers arent someone expected to go out on a limb nor are they expected to succumb to whims and caprices like taking their lives with sniper or whatnot. Who does that hmm, who does things like that FOLY? I'll tell you who do. Its only sheeple or cults who do things like that. "Awọn, ti wọn ti fi ori wọn, gba paarọ" means those whose brains have got swapped

FOLY, just so you know and for the records, I learn more from you when you stick to intellectual discussions than when you're larking about and playing to the gallery.

Fyi, believers let self die, they dont deliberately or consciously unneccesarily take their lives or give their lives away. Nobody exits until they fulfil the purpose and/or reason they are put on earth for. Even if you drink sniper, "ti Ọlọjọ ba sọpe ọjọ oo ti pe, koi ti ya lati pada wale nkọ, hmm? Nigbati asiko ba de, wọn a pe wa sir, asiko o ti ya, ko iti kan wa, so no need for sniper. Ẹse gan, a dupẹ" loosely translated means "What if the Owner of breath, says no death today, you're too young to die? Listen, when it is anyone's turn, the gim reaper will surely, on time, show up, so means, now, is not the time to die or to toy with death aided with sniper. No need for sniper. Thank you very much"

My good friend Muffy, you dey dance galala on top simple and straight question.

Peter was a believer, had no strong faith but still went on, stepping out of the ship and had his feet in the ocean. Common sense states that he cannot walk on the surface of water. Common sense also state that his weight will make him rapidly find himself on the Ocean bed, about 15,000 metre above sea level but he still went ahead because he had faith. He knew he can die...but found his foot on the water because he believe. So why are you turning the post now? Ti ogun eni ba dani loju, a ma fin gbari ni.

Many believers in eternal life who found themselves in any religion take their lives. This is what they believe so they cannot be wrong. Incidence like this has been happening before Jesus was born and it is happening till tomorrow. This is not peculiar to Christianity alone. In fact, the most recent mass suicide caused by religion conviction happened in Uganda on Mar 17, 2000 where 778 members of Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God took their lives.

Another thing, the reason because you live today is because you chose to live, not because of Olojo or God. You chose to look the road carefully before you cross it. If God or olojo is protecting you, you should have closed your eye and cross to the otherside of express and see if trailer no go knock you down. This applies to every aspect of life. If you want to die now now, there are 100,000,000 ways with which olojo or God wont save you.

If I may ask, why should anyone want to endure suffering, pains and injuries on this earth when there is a better heaven where there is no pain at all, where there is eternal bliss and merriment? Common guy, na heaven sure pass na...then go. You no dey collect visa or pay for ticket, na free route.

Many have done it, many will still do it. If you believe and have faith that there is heaven, you can do it too.

Abi you no like sniper? I go suggest fast-food that csn end life

Anas09:
Don't bother KAZE, This arguements won't lead us anywhere. Let's just leave it and wait to die and see.
Apst Paul says; Now all we can see of God is like a cloudy picture in a mirror. Later we will see him face to face. We don't know everything, but then we will, just as God completely understands us.
1 Corinthians 13:12
Give or take, 50 yrs from today most of us here wld be dead, and all will be open in yonder lands. If Jesus is wrong abt everything, then whatever will become of Him shall be the lot of us who hold unto Him tenaciously. I won't regret being wherever He will be.

Lol!!!

This should be an intellectual discussion, where we rub minds and learn. I am not here for argument or debate. No time for win/lose game, not me.

If I may ask, why are waiting till after 50yrs before you meet Jesus? Why can't you guys that have strong faith in Jesus and Heaven just take sniper and leave us unbelievers to slug it out with Armageddon?

Let's be serious. I don't know if you have heard about Jonestown in Guyana, USA. In that small settlement called Jonestown, there is a Christian group called The Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ. They have this strong idea that they will join Jesus Christ in heaven when they die, just like you are doing now.

Why am I bringing this across to you? In November 18,1978 in Guyana, a heroic event happened that struck the world with complete awe. A total of 918 members of the group committed mass suicide.

If this people believe they would meet Jesus, and that after death they will be in heaven where they are going to enjoy eternal life, and took the easiest route away from suffering, evil, unending sins, temptation, just like you believe too, why can't you Christians and you especially take your own life?

Why would you want to continue suffering, endless pain, temptation and sin? You've have always fantasies eternal life as a christian, why can't you just grab it by taking a drop of sniper?

MuttleyLaff, jesusjnr, OkCornel, Makschinchin and other Christians on this thread. Please answer the question.

If you believe you will join Jesus in Heaven after death, and that you will enjoy eternal life with all the bliss, living past suffering and pains, why can't you guys follow the step of The Peoples Temple of the Disciples of Christ of jonestown

Anas09:
I didn't refer to you here. I may be missed quoted you. I meant it for alBHAGDADI, not you.

You see dear, I had to tell you as it is. First impression tells alot. Your first engagement on this thread is a display of much temperament and anger. Albhagda is cool. Be cool too

Anas09:
God is my Father.

And who is your mother?

Apologies @Anas09 for using foul words against you. Never knew you were a lady. My bad for engaging you in such manner.

Can we start proper discussion? I am open if you want to. what scripture references do you want me to present?

alBHAGDADI:
Your reply shows you've accepted defeat.

The dunce has so soon forgotten that the all the scripture is an inspiration from God. Nothing is penned down on the thought of men.

Anas09:
Now I understand why you are so aggressive and bitter, may it not consume you.

Aitete m'ole

You are the one that is been aggressive and bitter on this thread.

Like I said before, if you are representation of what Christianity is, no one will be a christian. Tunwa e she

Anas09:
I'm still waiting for your scriptures.

Everything I said on this thread is backed up with bible verse. If you can take your time and read through the thread, you are going to find my scripture reference.

You may choose to be lazy and blind. I no get your time.

Anas09:
So satanism is the right path, why then aren't you cozy staying in your shrine but always want to talk Christianity which is not the right path. Are you confused?

Where did I say Satanism right path? This one done mad o.

You see, beyond Christianity, there are human. I can always talk to my fellow about what they do. That is because I have knowledge about it and found it not wanting.

You are all over displaying your stupidity. If you are an example of Christianity, no one would be a Christian. By their fruit we know them

Anas09:
I asked that you post scriptures backing your comments @bolded here. Can you pls post them?

Post wetin? I have done that. Go through the thread again. The scripture verses were posted. I no get strength to dey post am again

Anas09:
Thanks for the insult, but I can't see the backup scriptures I asked for. Pls post them. You come off maligning My Father and you expected me to pamper you. Get on with it boy and post the scriptures let be kick your arse.

Where I take insult your father? You no sabi your father again?

Makschinchin:
I still stand by the fact that Christianity is not filled with hateful doctrines as you proclaim..

Many have been lured into Christianity with those deceit. Were you not the one that don't want to have anything to do with Lucifer? That is the root of all hatred. It starts from hating Lucifer, to hating imaginary enemies in the village and pray that they die by fire (my boss be mfm and that is her line of prayer).

I was once like you my dear. But, history has shown that Christianity isn't the right path, Islam isn't either. Africans should look inward. Africans should disregard all form of religion that subject us to enslavement either in form of mind, skin color, ethnicity, and even sex.

It is demeaning that Jehovah silent all women in church and synagogue. Women in Christianity are second class human who have little or no value. The Heavens have no single woman. In Islam, women have no value outside sex and production of old children. And our women still cant see this.

Do you have idea about Yoruba spirituality? You are important to us in this spiritual system. Ifa value women. Check us out

Makschinchin:
***Makschinch.n is a female ooo ***

Oh mama. That is nice to know

Makschinchin:
Just look at how you subtly turned a 'closed eye' to all I explained.. I was waiting to hear your reply concerning James and John coming with their mum to ask a favour from Jesus and the other example I gave.. But from your analysis, you claimed every disciple of Jesus hates parents in the sense of disregarding them and leaving them to die.. Lies from the pit of hell.

No sir, you always make a wrong conclusion. And please, stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that ALL Christians hates their parents. What I said is that Jesus instructed his disciples to hate their parents. Whether his disciples take the instruction to the last letter is not issue here. However, some still have have hateful tendency against their parents.

Same Jesus instructed his disciples to sell off their properties, give sales proceed to the poor and follow him. How many Christians follow the instructions to the last letter? Mary Theresa did but not so many Christians can. That is the hypocrisy called blind followership.

Makschinchin:
I know your type.. No amount of what I type here can make you see the Truth in the glorious Gospel of Christ, you'll rather keep disproving it.. You just want to frustrate the Gospel and make me start arguing with you, but God won't let any of that to happen... It takes only the Holy Spirit to convict you.. And I pray that one day, He will open your eyes and your heart to the Truth of His Word, Amen.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

The scripture is sacrosanct. And has it instructions laid down in simple English. It is only Pharisees choose what and what not to practise.

Christianity as I know it, and the bible which I read is filled with hateful doctrines which shouldn't be allowed in sane climate. The whole religion is founded on hate, divides and disharmony.

Even when you are going astray, I love you brother. Remain blessed.

Anas09:
When you are done consulting for your demons, you can post scriptures to back up your comments here so that I can have fun shredding your arse to pieces.

You see how stupid you are shey? Even if we don't agree on some issues, you should respect me and I will accord you same respect. Look at how I engaged Makschinchin, that is because he is well mannered. Mufftylaff is also another Christian I like to engage. They followed the bible guidelines as laid down in 1 Peter 3:15,16.