₦airaland Forum

Monogamy:
This sounds interesting. Ko lo lo which means Ko le lo.. Dialects sometimes self.

Wondering how many people go don chop anti spam bot ban with the use of local language

I don chop am tire. Na mod saved me this time around. That Anti-spam bot hate seeing my post

Yujin:
I'll like to know this too. When I visited Ikaleland, I was told by an individual that they don't speak Yoruba here, that they speak Ikale. Well, they are Yorubas to me despite the dialectical differences. I don't know if Ikale people travel far like other Yoruba groups because if they do, then such mindset will gradually fade away. Osun people dominate Ore I can attest to this.

The reason why Ikale people refer to Osun and Oyo as kololo people is not farfetched. Infact, OP mentioned it in his main post - ti won ba ran ọ nisẹ, ko lọ lọ which literally mean if anyone sends you an errand respond saying you cannot go.

'Ti won ba ran ọ nisẹ, ko lọ lọ' is a pure Osun dialect. Same statement in Ikala is 'di an ba ra n ẹ nuṣe, dẹji we lọ'. The difference is dialect is clear and obvious.

From what I heard from old folks about Osun been called kololo, I don't know how true it is. I was told when the Osun people came to Ore and environment for farming, they do not mingle with those they met easily. So they instructed their kids not to run errands for the local Ikales. So when the Ikale elder sends Osun kid errand, he/she would respond wọnnì ki n ma lọ. If the Ikale press further by asking why, the would say 'ti won ba ran ọ nisẹ, ko lọ lọ'. That tongue sounds funny and the Ikale people picked it as a name for Osun people.

This is just like the Igbos are referred to Yanmiri in the North. However, this is kololo is not derogatory. It more like referring to Uhrobo as Ajegbo (Egbo soup eater).

Osun people do not dominate Ore. There are large numbers of Osun/Oyo/Ekiti in Ore. Majority of these people are farmers and petty traders. Ore partially belongs to Odigbo and Ikale, they both farm in it before people come to develop it. From Ogbe to Olowo is dominated by Ikales. Around the igbotako is dominated by Ikales and Ijebu. The Uhrobo, Igbo, Hausa and foreigners own farms and businesses in Ore.

gensteejay:
A number of things, especially his perspective on root races and epochs of humanity.

Oh well.

gensteejay:
OP, kindly post more updates. Thanks a lot.

What is interesting about the op?

MrSix:
What's spirituality?

Permit me to put it in a simple term.

Spirituality is the connectedness with oneself and the world/environment.

MrSix:
How'd you say you're an atheist and still believe supernatural things can be?

That depends on how you define supernatural. To me, supernature is simple an unexplained natural phenomenon. Any incidence that cannot be defined within the frame of natural laws are supernatural. My dictionary defines the word as something not of the usual; not natural; altered by forces that are not understood fully if at all.

The thin line between natural and supernatural is scientific or natural understanding of the phenomenal.

A critical example is Soponna, a deity invented to wage a biological warfare in the ancient Yoruba nation. Enemy camps were inflicted with small pox which ravage them. Note that these aworo who developed the disease also had the cure. This development is diabolic/supernatural because the people do not fully understand what they did or they attributed what they did to God.


With full understanding of Small pox and an available vaccine that cures it, that disease is now natural unlike in the past that it is attributed to supernatural forces. Today, Soponna is non existent.

In all this, as an atheist, super nature is admissible.

MrSix:
Your dad came with a Babalawo and he did stuffs coupled with incantations. Those incantations were to who/what?

To forces/energies of the nature.

Or in the religious sense, to the Gods. But hey, did you know that money is a god? What supernatural attribute does money have? That should give you a glimpse of where I am driving at.

MrSix:
Don't you seem to have derived your own perspective by cutting it off from your dad's or the babalawo's own?

I have a babalawo for my personal consultation. I didn't involve my Dad in the second instance.

So when the second situation arose, I went to my Babalawo. And he did same thing with different method.

MrSix:
For the question you've asked, I don't think I understand it. Maybe because of those terms in Yoruba I don't go along with.

Let me explain it this way. Mr and Mrs A are happily married. Before they met, things were very bad. But after there marriage, opportunities opened up, and life was good with them. Many years later, things became bad over again. Mr A consulted Babalawo and the Odu that came up was Eji Ogbe. The Babalawo told Mr a that the bond between him and his wife has broken, the sole reason while everything is going south. And for everything to return back to good, he and his wife must build genuine love between themselves.

In essence, what that Odu mean is that love opens door to prosperity. Mr A did recollect and saw that in the aspect of loving his wife, he had some setback, and also true that around those period, things weren't good.

If Mr A tell you this story, how would you correlate love and prosperity? Do both in reality have anything in common?

A christian would understand the essence of love. MuttleyLaff should help me explain that. That bond called love is understood through Eji Ogbe... Babalawo will tell you without it, no success. Same with Christianity.

As an agnostic or atheist, how do you understand the essence of love and the impact to man's existence?

MrSix:
Thanks

But this is hard considering you're also sharing a personal experience.
As for persons forgetting stuffs, some persons might just be there to pardon you. And then you'd see it the way you wanted it.

Oh well, there is no way I can define or describe something without knowing it. This is the reason I had to chip in my experience.

I do not want to reveal alot of things on the internet. I am an atheist but I don't deny things on tongue-in-cheek, I experiment it firsthand esp when it is harmless.

The first Eyonu charm was provided with the help of my dad. He brought a Baba who came home with a fried yam and cowries. They dug a hole and asked me to defecate on the prepared charm which I did. After some incantation, the names of those involved are mentioned and the substance buried. Na like film, no one remembered such incident happened.

The second one, I was involved directly, did everything on my own. The case almost cost me my job. But I was asked to bathe on Eshu stool and given an oil to rub my head with. The case died just like nothing happened.

You know, situation sometimes can make one be in a corner where you have no other option other than seeking spiritual help. My experience is not just for fun, I was in a tight corner.

Atheism is a disbelief in the existence of God, not spirituality or energy. Though, everyone would accept there exist energy...but what many call God is same as energy. For this reason, I tend to redefine God as a form of energy, and can be manipulated in whatever way one desire.


How would an atheist and you explain this situation... Some weeks ago, a Babalawo consulted Ifa and the Odu that came out is Eji Ogbe. That Odu from what I read has to do with genuine love and prosperity. Meaning that when you have a genuine love towards your partner, whatever you shall progress/prosper. What has love got to do with prosperity? Can you explain that logically?

joseph1013:
You don't need charm to trap men with s.ex. They call for it.

It's placebo.

What is placebo?

I need to ask because I can't find anything thay related it to sex...

People actually claim there is a love charm. I don't know if there is since I haven't confirmed one yet. However, I need to inform you that there are charms that work in an unexplainable way. Tradition medicines esp is a good example, though seems natural but the system and procedures is unnatural.

Love is natural. Fact is, the emotion system is psychological and this system can be altered just like every natural phenomenon. Can affection for someone be altered, Yes. Can it be done through charm, very possible.

I have personally experimented this love charm called Amudo in Yoruba. It didn't work for me though or let me say didn't work as described. Many years after, I bought another love charm from a Fulani friend, it didn't work too as expected.

Another charm that works more like love charm is Eyonu. I did it after one of my dirty job got bursted. It worked perfectly as those who are involved with the case forgot it happened, we worked many times together like nothing happened.

So for me, Eyonu had worked several times. I used it for myself and for a friend. But Amudo (love charm) has never worked in the two or three trials.

No one should simply accept or dismiss critical issues like these without personal experimentation of the subject.

LordReed:
Tak, tsk, tsk, I am tempted but it's out of my way and the roads are terrible.

Ok

The worst moment is when I watched my son laid down helplessly on hospital bed for days gasping for breathe until he gave up ghost. The situation makes me hate God more

@lordReed The challenge would have been accepted if at all you agree Ore, Ondo state. I would have taken you to Baba Eletu, he exposes thieves with gunpowder.

Come with your team. I will bear the transportation exp within Ore.

Makschinchin:
I asked a some question, where in the Scripture did Jesus command that anyone possessed with an evil spirit should be killed.. Definitely Nowhere!!

What has been possessed by evil spirit got to do with witchery?

I never said anyone killed children because they are possessed. Those Pastors killed them because they are witch.

Makschinchin:
You know we don't live by old testament laws anymore, they have been done away with through the Blood of Jesus Christ. So I ask again, show me a Bible passage where Jesus or His disciples killed a witch or demon possessed?? Why not proclaim loudly how He and His disciples rebuked these unclean spirits and cast them out of the bodies they dwell in. This same power He has given to us today, and not to kill the individual who is possessed!!

He commanded them to kill his enemy in luke 19:27

Makschinchin:
You won't answer the percentage question I asked you because you know that the majority who were killed were Christians.. Lol.

The percentage doesn't invalidate the killings. It is fact that children are been killed in thousands in SE.

Makschinchin:
Again, I read in one of your posts where you mentioned that God should have forgiven Satan, like seriously I think the question you should consider first is if this Satan (the originator of sin and reason for the world's present predicament) had ever asked for forgiveness?? You guys always end up trying to sympathetically defend Satan, making him look like a "good guy" whom he's not and will never be. He already knows he is condemned.. Too bad he is enticing many into same condemnation unawares to them.

May God help us all, Amen.

A Good and lovely Father forgives unconditionally.. You are only depicting your God as unforgiving evil monster.

As a father myself, I don't wait for my son to ask for forgiveness because I forgive him his wrongs. That is called compassion and true love.

OkCornel:
Old testament is Judaism, unless you want to tell us Moses, Aaron, David, Isaiah are Christians.

Show us where Jesus ordered His followers to slaughter their enemies.

You made a valid point on Christians fighting shamelessly on nairaland, even the Muslims have hatred amongst themselves, Sunni vs Shia for example. I'm not sure if they fight themselves on nairaland too...

As for Yoruba traditional beliefs, is it not the believers in the gods that still fought and killed themselves in ancient communal clashes and wars? Perhaps they fought amongst themselves with the belief that their gods have empowered them to do so... isn't it? Should the traditional belief share in the blame too?

Another twist, old testament is Judaism. Is it that you and Makschinchin do not know there is a scripture called TORAH in judaism? No, you wouldn't know and shamelessly reject Old Testament because the contents are embarrassing to you. Isn't it? But hey, I learnt that 'all scriptures is an inspiration from God' and 'not a single book should be removed or added'. So why are you denying an inspiration from God, and also throwing out word of God?

Moses, Aaron, David, Isaiah and other prophet of God. Didn't three of these prophet showed up at the transfiguration? Moses received the commandment from God and passed it to Israelites. Jesus also was directed by God, to Israelites. If one should go by your logic, Christians should go about stealing because it is Moses' law, Jesus was silent on stealing.

In Luke 19:27 is the verse used by Sicarii Zealots. That verse set ground for terrorism. They are direct words from Jesus. What moral lesson did Jesus teach in Luke 19:27? Jesus' moral parable explains to you that if you don't allow Jesus Christ to be your King, authority, ruler, over you, you are to be slain. Jesus' parallel lesson in Luke 19:27 is: If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you will suffer eternal torment. What moral lessons! What an monster and evil tyrant. There is no indication of religious freedom here. There is no possibility of forgiveness, mercy, or tolerance towards those with different beliefs. Instead, we have a " show them no mercy " type of policy as in Deuteronomy 7:1-2.

Pope Urban backed his wholesale massacre campaign with Matthew 10:34-35. There was chaos and rampaging violence in the England. That Crusade took life of over 10 million souls. Jesus could be as peaceful as Jains but he proclaimed that he isn't here for peace, with non believers.

Deut 13:6-10, Deut 13:12-16, Deut 17:2-7 and Lev 20:27 are all commandment of God. It is embarrassing, choke on it.



I need to add, the Gods in Yoruba are serving human, not the way its found in Christianity. There is this saying, eni yara ni ogun n gbe (Ogun support the swift). Ogun is the God of war, and represent Iron. The saying implies that in a fist, the smartest and fastest would have winning advantage with support of Ogun. This makes Ogun the tool in your hand, and it serves you. Another saying goes thus: orisa bi o le gbe mi, fimile bi n se wa (Orisa if you can't support me, just me alone). Another one: orí l'aba bo aba fi Orisa sile, tori nigba ti Aisan gbe ni de, Ori nikan lo kun funni (Only Ori should be appeased, Orisa should be rejected because when sickness knock one's down, only Ori stood by our side).

The three Ifa words shows that Orisa is to serve human, not the other way round as it is found in Christianity. And you have the right to choose and reject any of the Divinity with no repercussion. You may choose four or two orisas, you may reject all Orisas or face another religion outside Yoruba spirituality. There is no harm, no threat of eternal punishment.

In Christianity, you are a servant or slave of Jesus. Most importantly, you are a sheep (dullard) who should serve the Shepherd. Jesus his your master. And the servant or sheep or slave should follow the commandment of the master. Not so doing, you are going to be punished or cursed.

In Orisa system, the Deities are to serve human. Though they are powerful and should be appeased for more blessings. There is no servant-master relationship between Awo and Orisa. As a matter of fact, the Orisas should be commanded by you and sent on errand as you please. While they serve you, you must nurture them.

With the cases above, the tool is the Orisa and wouldn't be blamed for your action that is your own doing. In Christianity, you served the commandment of Jesus to the last letter, you are the tool and Jesus should be blamed for making you a bad person

OkCornel:
Well, you might also want to show us a verse where Jesus encouraged his followers to kill their enemies. Unless you're mixing up Christianity for Judaism.


Okay, let me even assume traditional beliefs do not permit killings and human sacrifices... Let me further assume that even your Odu and other Yoruba gods never permitted killings
... Did it stop the Yorubas from fighting wars and killing one another in ancient times?


A person that wants to be wicked will be wicked, religion or no religion...

Oh, it is now Judaism, not old testament.

Wars are more political than religion. A fight for power and territory has nothing to do with religion. If the cause is religious, then religion should be blame.

Rampage killing of innocent souls in the name of not worshipping your God is bad. It is on this forum you guys will spread hatred against JW, Catholic and other Christian sects. No love found. The same division is happening out there. How many times did you find Sango adherent insulting adherent of Ogun? Love bounds all.

Cheers

OkCornel:
Bro, bad people do bad things and would use anything (religion inclusive) as an excuse to justify themselves.
Even our traditional forefathers in Africa fought wars among themselves and killed one another. Do you agree or disagree?
Would you blame their traditional beliefs for such killings?

Show us the verse from Odu that advocate killing.

Let me help you with a secret. Orunmila is the deity of wisdom, a hero God. Aje are witches, a villian. Could you imagine that Orunmila marries one of the Aje. Odu is one of the Eleye. Yoruba spirituality has no enemy clause that you which should die. The moral of the discussion is tolerance. That is why you find Babalawo can marry Muslim and Christian without issue. That is Yoruba spirit, African spirit. Tolerance, peace and harmony. In such case, one can't blame the religion.

However, the case in Christianity is evil. Fathom enemy is created here and there. You wish them everything bad, death and hell. When that is not enough, you kill them. Tell me, why did your God has to kill his son to appease himself instead of just forgiving Satan?

Makschinchin:
Mr. FolyK, where in the Bible was a child born and commanded to be killed because he/she is a witch?? anyone killing an innocent child in the guise of "suffer not a witch to live" is wicked and shouldn't even be called a Christian.. How was the child confirmed a witch?? Evil spirits are meant to be rebuked and forced out of the bodies they operate in in Jesus' Name not killing the individual possessed thereof.. Did Jesus ever command the killing of anyone possessed of evil spirit? What did Jesus do, he rebuked and sent them out of the body and freed the individual.. So whoever is killing the possessed today instead of delivering such person in Jesus' Name is Satan's incarnate and not a follower of Jesus.

The long story is not needed.

It is fact that churches in the Southeast Nigeria perpetrated in Killing of little children and adult non-Christians. The pastors are simply carrying out massacre in accordance with Exo 22:18. Lev 20:27.

About how they identify they are witch and other garbage you have up there, go and ask those killer pastors and your bible.

Makschinchin:
@boldened; how has terrorism stemmed from Christianity?? And how has Christianity created a form of intolerance and social discrimination?? Please bro be honest here, using Nigeria as an example or are you afraid of saying the truth From the 500,000 you mentioned who lost their lives, what percentage of that figure are Christians??

Yes, Terrorism stemmed from Christianity. The first terrorists were Christians.

The first known terrorist group is Sicarii Zealots of the 1st century. Those who partook in the Gunpowder plot aimed at killing King Game I and members of the Parliament are Christians. They wanted to install church puppet and restore church leadership in the state. The wholesale murdering in Crusades and Inquisition are act of terror. And all these are in accordance with Deut 13:6-10, Deut 13:12-16, Deut 17:2-7 and Lev 20:27.

It is in this Nigeria Rev King burnt human alive. Is he not a Christian or not doing in accordance to the bible?

You are here asking of percentage, I no be dead body counter.

Makschinchin:
Bravo!!

Those against the Christian religion often make researches and begin to draw inference and conclusion from people on the past who are affiliated to Christianity without asking themselves if they were actually doing the will of God..

Some are called Christians but character wise, they are not in anyway following the commandments of Jesus but going after their own selfish will and ambition..

Here comes the holier than thou part of you. Na online you holy pass and others don't follow the doctrine of Jesus.

The bible instructed Christians to kill witches, and many Christians all across the world killed anyone tagged as witch. The spanish inquisition cost more than 10 million lives, the wholesale massacre of so called witch and pagans was commanded in the bible. Are you telling me the church that carried out the inquisition campaign ain't christians?

The holistic and bloody cleansing is happening in your backdoor. Little children are been killed. When the Pastors are caught, they quote the bible and make the world understand they are carrying out God's commandment.

Didn't your bible asked you not to spare the life of witch? Same bible also gave guidance on how to kill kids in Ps 137:9, Isa 13:16

Makschinchin:
The likes of Folyka won't make mention of instances where Jesus and His followers healed the sick, raised the dead, delivered people from evil spirits, and every other wonderful thing done..

That is it nah, advocate that all hospitals should be closed since your Jesus can heal the sick.

Makschinchin:
He said terrorism, hatred, division etc emanated from the Christian religion which are all lies.. We've already had a discussion of that on another thread..

I don't have the strength of going round and rather expend the energy on something worthy.

You just said my claims are lies, can you tell us the truth?

Makschinchin:
He is asking how Christians have helped in developing Nigeria.. I'll mention a few which I'm sure of.. Some Christian organizations/churches visit the homeless, prisons and orphanage homes with some gift materials to them. They help in rehabilitating the homeless by providing shelter, food, clothing and caring for them. They take the word of God round communities, preaching and healing the sick and doing numerous miracles as the Lord Jesus has empowered us to do. There are some communities without good water system, some Christian organizations have assisted in creating good water systems in many communities here in Nigeria. In some churches today, there are donations made separate used to assist the poor and the needy..

How does these garbage contribute to national development?

Makschinchin:
These and many more are ways Christians have helped in developing Nigeria in their own little way; Note that I didn't mention the contributions of Muslims too (one can help us though)..

Sharing chinchin to kids after extorting their parents doesn't add anything to the economy. Gerrit?

OkCornel:
Why people think that religion is the problem of Nigeria, is because they are oblivious to the fact that both good people and bad people are religious.

When wicked people (be it Christians, Muslims or Traditionalists) commit bad acts, they blame the religion. When good people irrespective of their background do good things, I wonder why critics don't praise the religion of such a person.

I will say this over and again. Take away tribal differences and religion, a wicked and selfish person will still find excuses to continue in wickedness. A good person will still person will still want to do what is right.

Nigeria is where it is because most of its leaders are selfish and wicked. And majority of the followers are not too different, despite the fact that it is a "religious" country...

Fact check: The billions of dollars Nigeria generated from sale of crude oil from 1958 till 2014; an equivalent of one-quarter of that money was what Europe spent to repair its infrastructures after the carnage of the second world war. Now tell me why Nigeria is still backward. Is it religion? or just sheer greed and wickedness...

You are getting things wrong bro. You don't blame the gun for firing and killing person, you blame the trigger puller. Religion captured the minds, and those who develop it used it as a control tool.

Mother Theresa was a good philanthropist. And the world celebrated her and Christianity. However, when Islamic terrorism rises, people heap the blame on radical Islamic doctrines.

People fight and may kill over territories and power, in such case the person will be blamed. But when the action is sparked by an external factor or influence, then we can all blame the bad influence.

CodeTemplar:
@underlined
Mr man look you aren't talking to kid. If you have a point, prove it and stop laying the burden of proving your argument or disproving mine on me. You tell us how Christianity has impeded development or how irreligious folks have out performed their religious counterparts. Simple.

@the bold part, Scientific development is universal indeed but very unequal or uneven. In fact some can't stand any rigorous test of time.. Now you are sounding like what I expected. You shouldn't have tried to twist my words then reply to the twisted version or generalize the phantom achievements of Bini kingdom for all 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria. like you stated, sustained growth indeed brings development, but that in itself is another irrelevant fact because the point of contention here is that religion generally impedes African development or cause Africa's backwardness.

Your point is?


Ignored

CodeTemplar:
You don't lay the burden of disproving your argument on me or disproving mine. You do that yourself by proving what you say. And stop twisting my words before replying to them. The fact that I highlighted the christian names of Isaac Newton or Michael Faraday doesn't mean their names gave them wisdom automatically. In fact such religion assumptions is what has led many astray in Christianity in Africa but that doesn't negate the fact that religion isn't our problem.

How many times do I need to highlight the problems eating up Africa, Nigeria esp and how your religion - Christianity is one of the root cause?

Slave trading, the death blow that threw Africa into underdevelopment, and colonialism that crippled the growth of African nations are backed up by the bible. The bible instructed his followers to keep slaves and also trade them.

Infanticide has become an endemic in the Southeast Nigeria today. Over 100,000 killed have either been killed or strangled. These innocent kids are accused of been witch. And their killings is carried out by Pastors in accordance with the law of the Bible.


The new age terrorism, has it source in Christian world. Since 1960 till date, over 500,000 have lost their lives to religion crisis and terrorism. Christianity most especially breeds a form of intolerance and social discrimination. All evils are institutionalized in your bible.

CodeTemplar:
Point to where I implied or claimed that the christian names of Isaac Newton and Michael Faraday is responsible for their achievements.
You twist my words then reply to it with partly irrelevant data and partly exergerated facts. That doesn't sway me a bit.

You shouldn't have challenged me. These are your words

CodeTemplar:

Have you imagined why Isaac Newton isn't named Isa Newton or why Michael Faraday isn't named Mukhail Faraday?

Thugaa had the wealth of patience for engaging you after you submitted that garbage above. It is your theory, from your own words that Michael Faraday make great discoveries because he bear Michael, and not Mukhail

CodeTemplar:
While I await that, the fact that European invented slave trade doesn't in anyway negate the fact that those phantom achievement you listed were subdued with allegedly inferior ones.

It would like to say Pan-Africans will celebrate if Slave trade can be reintroduced so that you and your entire family can be sold to Europe since you applaud slavery. But let me be civil.

Sustained growth is what brings development. Europe didn't achieve anything that subdue African development. As a matter of fact, scientific development is universal, not someone's title.

For an umpteenth time, tell us how your religion has contributed to the development of Africa.

CodeTemplar:
I have heard these stale narrative before. I have heard about the phantom skyscrapers, I have heard about our equally phantom mathematical progress whereas most African tribes don't have number system and when they do it hardly goes beyond 150, I have heard about how people sacrificed whole human being to gods for small diseases like typhoid and malaria or even oil spill into rivers. I have heard about how with all our phantom advancements most African tribes were naked and wore leaves until even some 150 years ago.
I have heard of how we were selling ourselves for dry gin and mirrors. I have heard of how the whites subdued us with far inferior technologies than those ego-massaging ones you have up there.

You go to Egypt that had element of European input and take some achievements there then generalize with all the tribes in Africa that didn't even have even number system and expect me to take you serious. You talk of trade system that only came as close as Kano ( a border town north ) and expect me to fall for it equally. If you want to nullify my points about religion not having negative effect on European and American development, then let us also factor in the fact that what happens in Egypt, Sudan and Mali were most of those your phantom African achievement took place doesn't affect what's going on in Nigeria, central Africa, east Africa and southern Africa.
I insist religion isn't the problem but the people.

Your response overtime shows your level of ignorance. The discussion has been a simple one. From onset, the subject of discussion focuses on Religion and it contribution to African development. In order to help you from posting out of sense, I have asked you to tell us HOW RELIGION - CHRISTIANITY HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AFRICA, USE NIGERIA AS YOUR YARDSTICK. Mr CodeTemplar, remain in course.

I wouldn't have countered your baseless argument but allowing your ignorance to overshadow fact will be the greatest undoing. I mentioned that Africans built sophisticated buildings before they had contact with Europeans. Some of the artifacts mentioned are Sphinx and Pyramid in Egypt, Benin (present Edo state) empire wall, Sungbo Eredo wall (in present Ijebu) and other great standing artifacts across Africa. These structures were designed on the spiritual system of the land. I didn't make it up, these are documented facts.

Mathematics is formed on the concept of number, magnitude, and form. The evidence of mathematical calculations was found encrypted on a in artifact in Congo dating back to 20,000yrs ago. Europeans contact with African world date back to 14century, that is 1300 yrs ago. Pythagoras, who is renowned as the author of mathematical theorem studied in Egypt, Africa. If you have any shred of educational experience, you would know that Yoruba people have a numbering system on base 5. This gives the reason why they have to add/subtract 1-5 to arrive at a whole number. To get to 16, they count 20 - 4. To arrive at 92, they count (20 x 5 - 10) + 2. With this number base counting, they can arrive at any infinite end. I will agree that a blockhead like you cannot understand the complex counting system of the Yoruba people. How then would you understand the divination base 2 system or other system found in Africa? It is a shame you came up with fallacy that counting system doesn't exceed 150, 200 in Yoruba is Igba, 400 is Irun or Igba meji. You should study the sophistication of the numbering.

Another fallacy, you claimed Africans sacrificed human to heal a disease. Your ignorance is nothing new, and I am upto to the job of exposing it. Go and read about Yoruba deity called Soponna. Also read about Onesimus (Boston slave). What do I want to draw out from Soponna and Onesimus? Soponna is the deity of small-pox. The disease was developed in Africa to wage war against enemy states, a form of biological warfare. The priest who developed this virus also knew the cure. When the Europeans came to Africa, they contact small-pox and the disease nearly killed all of the Settlers in Boston. It took the intervention of Onesimus, a slave from Africa to come with the cure. The small pox vaccine was an idea of African. This tells that Africans mastered medicine and this process is deep rooted in their spirituality. If you don't, surgery starts from Africa.

But seriously, I can't touch many other fallacies you vomited. Clothing date back over 100,000yrs. Sewing needle found was found in cave dating back to 30,000yrs. Yoruba people own clothing industry called Adire before they meet Europeans. So what the hell are you talking about?

I have brought this counter argument to buttress that Africans, Nigerians, Yorubas are doing very well before Europeans came. The sporadic growth in Oyo empire during 1700 yrs ago into 1800 shows steady and progressive growth, a trend for development.

It is however pathetic that you could ignore the problems listed that are caused by your religion which has freeze our development. The stagnation of African development starts and ends with Christianity and Islam. The problems are too numerous.

ONCE AGAIN, I WILL APPRECIATE IT IF YOU CAN HIGHLIGHT THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF CHRISTIANITY TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF NIGERIA.
While doing that, please not that this same religion introduced Slave trading, and supported the barbaric act with bible.
Also note that same religion breeds hatred, divide, disharmony nd create not very peaceful atmosphere, same bible instructed to hate those who are not of God.
Also note that our bible introduced racial discrimination, that have degenerated into ethnicity and tribalism. Israel God is for Israel only, Jesus was sent to the Jew. Discrimination right?
Note also that your religion introduced terrorism. You can start reading up on the history of terrorism.
Note that your religion introduced genocide and infanticide. This practice is still found across Africa today and in Nigeria. Little children are killed in hundred of thousands in the name of not sparing life of witch. An instruction from bible.

LoJ:
Dr Strange is indeed an interesting movie with respect to occult arts. There are many a lesson one can learn from that movie.

I am not aware of the technique Billyonaire taught with regards to Astral travel. I do not know any serious book by a serious author about that.

There is a reason to it. Suppose you soul travel and you meet the keeper of the other side, would you know what to do? Or say an malign being or even an elemental.

I believe it is better to learn those skills or better still acquire them within a system that will enable you to know what to do and when.

This is another angle to it.

I had thought astra projection is to explore, I don't know one can meet beings that can affect us physically.

Do you know any Yoruba Orisa system that practices astra travel?

CodeTemplar:
Stop blaming religion.
Before religion we were selling ourselves to white men in exchange for dry gin and mirror. That same attitude is our problem. Why haven't the blacks who were migrated to America and Europe advanced more than their more religious brethren left behind in Africa?

If you dig deep you will discover that most technological breakthrough in the industrial age were directly traceable to Christians or religious folks like Michael Faraday, Isaac Newton and co.

Religion in fact when practiced well is the catalyst for human advancements.

We need to start taking responsibility for what we are going through instead of blaming religion and God.

Look at out refineries for example, we have so much oil that can engage as much as 1 million extra hands when refined but we choose to export them raw and blame God/religion as though God didn't give us oil. Same goes for farming also. We have good whether and water but choose to ignore those only to blame God for the sufferings of poor people. Yet when it is time to steal we deny God.

Many of you evangelical and militant christians on this thread have failed to address any of the issue at hand. Your response to Thugaa has exposes you know near nothing about the history of Africa, and lack understanding of concept of Development. The discussion is targeted at Religion and African development, my dear friend is battling with Christianity and Europeans. How does the two correlate?

For educational purposes, Africans have their indigenous religion system before they had contact with the Europeans. The question we need to ask is if the religion and spiritual system benefitted them in term of social development, the answer is YES. Africans were able to treat diseases, build magnificent structures, studied the movement of stars, create a balanced trading system. For example, the Egyptians were able to build the Pyramid and Sphinx (one of the wonders of the world), iron smelting across Africa is a testament to technological growth, the Beni kingdom wall (largest earthwork in the world), and the Ijebu city wall...These are example of structural growth that all have spirituality fingerprints. The Dogons were able to detail far stars. They identified and detailed Sirius B many hundred of years before Europeans could develop telescope. In the aspect of trading, Africans sold gold, copper, kola nut, cotton, fabric, palm oil and livestock to the world.

A quick look into books would educate you that Europeans invented slave trading. It is true that there is slavery in Africa. Those slaves are mostly SERFS who are indebted, war prisoner/captive, criminals, immigrants or refugees. The SERFS are paid a little amount of wages to work on some portion of lands, or get married to Chiefs, and in most cases, serve as servants with the right to own their properties. Serfdom is predominant in Africa. These are not slaves, and not sold. Europeans introduced the barbaric system of exchanging human for valuables.

One begin to wonder if Isaac Newton and Michael Faraday became great scientist because they bear Christian names. You, CodeTemplar could have discovered the step to development and your findings show the bearing a christian name or practising a particular religion is the answer. Really pathetic.

Their scientific contributions would have been ascribed to Christianity if it was done by/in the church or in accordance with the Bible law. You may have forgotten that the church killed Galileo when his findings contradicted their bible claim. Church held that Earth is flat, Galileo found out that it is spherical, hence he was killed for apostasy. That is the impact of religion on science, killings of scientists.

What passage in the bible did Michael Faraday read before he came up with his invention? Which particular verse in the bible guided Isaac Newton to his discovery? A glance into the bible will show you where Jehovah explained how to cure Leprosy, why hasn't WHO adopted the method if it were realistic? What verse in the Bible capture how one can build a machine? So I wonder what fallacy you are talking about as if Michael Faraday was praying in the church everyday and night instead of been in the lab. I wonder if Isaac Newton was reading through the pages of the bible where he found his theories.


I WILL APPRECIATE IT IF YOU CAN HIGHLIGHT THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF CHRISTIANITY TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF NIGERIA.

While doing that, please not that this same religion introduced Slave trading, and supported the barbaric act with bible.

Also note that same religion breeds hatred, divide, disharmony nd create not very peaceful atmosphere, same bible instructed to hate those who are not of God.

Also note that our bible introduced racial discrimination, that have degenerated into ethnicity and tribalism. Israel God is for Israel only, Jesus was sent to the Jew. Discrimination right?

Note also that your religion introduced terrorism. You can start reading up on the history of terrorism.

Note that your religion introduced genocide and infanticide. This practice is still found across Africa today and in Nigeria. Little children are killed in hundred of thousands in the name of not sparing life of witch. An instruction from bible.

Thugaa:
It would have been better if a gun was put to your head and you were given a choice to make, its far more deadlier than that. Its called brainwashing and mind control. Its in the system and you have been fed poo from your very beginning. Not even your parents know it cos it was pass on to them also, not even our leaders. Only thing that can save us is to start asking questions (rationalism)

You should have ignored the guy. A dog is wiser than he is

Makschinchin:
My friend, you are here again.. What's your own take on this.. I need to hear your opinion too

Christianity and Islam are plague to Africa as a continent. Those two religion has become problematic to human and social development in Nigeria.

Religion breeds hatred, discord, division, intolerance and discriminations. Shitte been hated by Sunni, JW been hated by other Pentecostal churches as shown even on this forum. Christian families refusing to marry their daughter to Muslims. And many other crazy indoctrination which saw rampart non-peaceful atmosphere, incessant killings and morality decadence.

In the north where we have majority Muslim, boko haram has been killing thousands of innocent souls. The killers are following the instructions laid down in the quran.

In the south where we have majority Christians, infanticide is growing astronomically in the name of suffering and sparing not the life of witch. It is on account that more than 100,000 thousands children have been killed within 10yrs.

Terrorism grew from Christianity. The first crusade was develop to annihilate non-christians. Terrorism has now been adopted in Nigeria as a form of Jihad. The total live lost from religious struggle in Nigeria from 1960 is more than 200,000.

In the North, Almaijiri system is a product of Islam. The system is designed to brainwash little kids, prevent them from getting exposed to civility and modern education, and also subjecting them to radical indoctrination. We have over 10 million kids whos life are been wasted away all because of Islam. Almaijiri is a modern form of enslavement. There is no chain but their brain has been taken over by Sheikh.

In the South, Education has been pushed aside, and we have more churches than libraries, schools and research centres. A church is proud of having branches on every street in Nigeria. How would you expect a society that values God and religiosity more than former education to develop?

Christianity and Islam are not African thing. Buddhism is Chinese religion. Hinduism is Indian religion. Islam is Arabian religion. Judaism is the religion of Israelites. Africans need to return to their roots. Sticking to foreign religion has brought nothing but death, pains, suffering and stagnation to us.

Religion entirely is not bad, if it is your own. Christianity and Islam only came through slave trading. The two religions are of foreign origin, brought to enslave the minds of African people. Thousands of years ago, African traded with Chinese and Indians, we never forced them to accept our religion nor did they forced us to accept their religion. They never impose their culture on people outside their country. Why only European and Arabian? Why is it that it is only these two that enslaved Africans?

adoyi8:
It makes us give priority to unimportant things.
let me tell you a short story:

in late 1990s when Oyinbo parents were buying toys for their kids, we African children were building our toys by ourselves.
During the vacations, My friends and I will go search all the refuse dumps in Samaru, Zaria we I was born. We will look for used batteries and tins to build tin cars and other playthings. You need to see the kind of things we built then. We were little geniuses.

But our parents did not like it because they saw it as a waste of time. My father made me join alter servants association in my church and my muslim friends were forced to go to the Islamiyya. So, while I was made to cram the Catechism book, my muslim friends were cramming the 99 names of Allah instead of using the time to exploit our technical ingenuity.

Imagine all the time Nigerians spend in churches and mosques. If we had used it to build our human capacity, I don't think we will be importing toothpick today.

Today my child hood Hausa friends and I hate each other because of indoctrination that took its effect later.
Instead of coming together to build a better Nigeria like we did as kids, we only care whether the president is from our religion or not.
If you've been wondering who stole the African child's brain then don't worry because I just told you.

Apt and scrutiny!

LoJ:
Hello bro, how are you doing?

I can't teach astral travel, because I never learnt it. I do astral travel though, but not consciously and at will. Also, it came more as a by product of other esoteric Trainings I did, rather than a dedicated learning process.

I am afraid I can't be of any help with respect to that.

I watched a couple of movies with snippet of esoteric practises like Astral projection. One of the movie is titled Doctor Strange. And ever since I watched the video, I do want to have the experience. Billyionaire practical teachings is not working. And I have checked tons of websites which doesn't work for me.

With your vast idea about this subject, can you suggest a book that can guide me on having the experience?

LoJ:
The good Foly has essentially said the same thing I did. I fail to see the difference, except in length and number of Bible verses.

When is the final answer coming out?

I have been waiting like forever for the price.


Hey Loj, i have been trying to experience Astral projection about two weeks now but it is not working. I just want to know what it feels like. Tried doing it late in the night and at dawn but none worked, I end up sleeping deep. What can I do to have this experience?

Mynd44:
They can't as it will lead to flooding of the communities along the banks. You can block the path of water

And if you notice, they aren't blocking the entire path of the river, just a section. When they want to build the other part, they will open the one they blocked.

Is this how bridges are constructed on expanded rivers and lagoons?

I have always wondered how third mainland bridge was built. Do the engineers have to sand-fill every now and then before they can complete it?

Where is Bishop MuttleyLaff? Come chop this £100 make you use am pay for my voucher

budaatum:
Please note that FOLYKAZE is the closest to the right answer and would have received half £100 for half right answer if that had been the promise!

Resits are allowed!

Well let me give it another try.


God infinitely exist on it own. But a lot of people out there, with their numerous thoughts and intelligence, create a God that fit into their idea, scope and worldview. While on the alternate, God created man in his own image. With the natural thoughts and intelligence, Man tries to picture or create an image of God which is forbidden.

Man tries to know God. And they attempted this through their thoughts. But has their thoughts provided them the through nature of God? Nope
Isaiah 55:8-9
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.
Romans 11:33-35
33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them?”

Decrypting your own statement, 'as it grows one would know no mountain is high enough in all the world to see the whole world so you'd not go about creating graven images of God', it implies that the intelligence of Man cannot depict the Original nature of God

Job 11:7
"Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?

All the intelligence of Man can be likened to a bread which does not amount to God's wisdom. Bread alone doesn't bring satisfaction. Just like bread, human intelligence also can be eaten by moth and completely destroyed.

I will use the story of men who tried to seek God by building a tower into heavens. Their effort then was destroyed because God cannot be known with canal thought and natural intelligence. In today's world, people subscribe to religion, societies, circles and groups in order to understand the nature of God. These efforts are mostly through the prism of Man's knowledge about God. Such thoughts only create an descriptive image of God. On this path, they can easily go astray and lose focus.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned


The bible passage has sealed it.

Thou shall not carve a image of God unto yourself. The Hebrew words up there mean 'no sculpture, no picture'. But this is what majority of people out there does. They try to capture the nature of God through their own intelligence/wisdom which amounts to foolishness, and sin, and total destruction.

Job 5:13 He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

That verse summed it up. It shows that every pound stored since birth by a 40yrs old man amounts to nothing. Even when he can store more than 10,000pounds, it amounts to nothing. More like eating bread and been starved.

To know God, one does not need to subscribe to a religion or group. One does not need thought of men that can be eaten by moth (sin). One only need to the spiritually inclined

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Romans 12:2
2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
1 John 3:6
6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

The only thing a human intelligence could provide us is a graven image of God which is sin and leads to destruction. Man has to be guided through the spirit of God, not human intelligence of oneself or that of guru/pastor/Imam.

Answer to your question again, the value of pound of intelligence, store on monthly basis over 40yrs, is tantamount to ZERO OR NEGATIVE. As human intelligence creates nothingness or a graven image of God which is sin.