₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
What a sorry and silly comparison. The vagina is elastic and would revert back to shape after sexual intercourse...

Can you say the same thing for the anus that is damaged? Or is the anus also elastic?

Women still feel pain during sex too . Your argument is baseless

OkCornel:
FOLYKAZE, can you open your bible from Genesis to Revelation and give one example of same sex marriage approved of by God?

I don't own a Bible except the one on the internet.

God wasn't against Jonathan and David romantic relation. Infact, they were heterosexual which is an aspect of homosexuality. So my friend, if it were wrong, God would have struck them to death.

OkCornel:
So why did Paul specifically mention homosexuals as unrighteous people here?
1 Corinthians 6 v 9-10;
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

It didnt mention homosexual. You are the one reading meaning into that statement.

OkCornel:
Oh yes, but does God want you to walk in darkness? That is the issue here...

He has his reasons of creating darkeness. His reasons are unfathomable and beyond you.

OkCornel:
Again, you are blatantly contradicting what Paul wrote in Romans 1 v 26-27. Was Paul wrong to say lesbianism/homosexuality is not natural?

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

I can see reasons why the thread went into 20pages or there about.

For an umpteenth time, unnatural implies 'not procreating' meaning cannot reproduce offspring. Unnatural is not equivalent to sin.

The Definition of Sin

1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6A.HTM#$21C

Homosexuality doesn't hurt or cause pain to any one. It is born out of natural love.

OkCornel:
Wow, so in a case where a dog mounts a lady and has intercourse with the lady (willing to do this for cash and pleasure)...that is causing pain to the dog isn't it? It is also against the dog's consent isn't it?


Now...why isn't this case of dog and lady seen as an act of love...since it's consensual and seemingly hurts no one?

What of cases of hor.ny horses attempting to have intercourse with humans? If the human is willing...isn't it consensual? Why isn't this also seen as love...since it hurts no one?

Bible said 'love one another' meaning love among human, not animals.

Please stay on topic.

OkCornel:
Besides, where in the Bible does it show that abuse of substance like weed is a sin? Why did you call it a sin? Point out where the Bible said smoking of cigarettes, weed e.t.c. is a sin. If you can't...but still concluded it's a sin... why are you advocating homosexuality which Paul clearly wrote against isn't a sin?

Did I say it is a sin? I pointed out bestiality and raping.


Modify, it was an error. And note I only pointed out bestiality and raping

OkCornel:
Wow, so anal sex (which a significant majority of homosexuals engage in) doesn't hurt right?

The anus was created for sex abi? Answer this and let scientific evidence show you up...

This is absurd and pathetic to say the least.

How can an adult ask this question?

Have you ever had sex with a lady before? I mean consensual sex. Why do some ladies groan in pleasure and pain during sex? Does it hurt her too even if your pin sized diicckk finds it way into her varrghinnal?

OkCornel:
These homosexual activists are very funny.

They talk as though it was same sex relationship that made it possible for them to be conceived and raised up on this planet...


Big fat absurdity and hypocrisy...

You are the one that is economical with truth.

I have argued that homosexuality is unnatural as it is not a sexual form of procreation. It doesn't mean it is a sin.

I have defined what a sin is.

The Definition of Sin

1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6A.HTM#$21C

Homosexuality doesn't hurt or cause pain to anyone, hence it isn't a sin

OkCornel:
Romans 1 v 26-28 (AKJV)
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


Did you notice Paul called these homosexuals/lesbians those with a reprobate mind? So you are telling us here that God created people with reprobate minds?

Reprobate simply mean not respectable behavior or action that is morally wrong. Neither of these equates to sin.

And in fact, God created light and darkness. That is what the bible said.

OkCornel:
Back up this claim of yours with the scriptures...
And I don't want another person mistaking an eunuch for a homosexual or lesbian...

Please read John 9:1-12

It explained how a boy was born blind. He was actually created by God without a sight.

As it happened to the boy, homosexuals were created by God with their deformities which make them attracted to fellow men. There attraction is natural not choice

OkCornel:
Perhaps, someone into bestiality or rape or abuse of substances like weed will also claim God created them that way...

You are still not getting it. All those you listed like bestiality, rape and abuse of substances are sin.

Bestiality, non consented sex with animal. It causes pain to such animal.

Rape, non consented sex with human. It is not founded on love and causes harm, pain and wounds to the victim.

OkCornel:
And the men Paul spoke of and condemned in Romans 1 v 27, didn't they abandon the natural use of women and consented to having sex with one another? Did Paul mention in there that homosexuality is natural?

You see, you don't want to accept the fact that homos are naturally attracted to men. It is their nature, not choice. Hence, very natural

OkCornel:
And how does this support homosexuality?

That is how God create them.

OkCornel:
Did you read what Paul said in the following scriptures below?




In Romans 1 v 27, are you explicitly telling us Paul was wrong to say men having desire for their fellow men was not natural (i.e. abnormal)?

Abnormal in that context mean inability to procreate. It isn't a sin unto God.

OkCornel:
1) If a man loves his dog, to the point of sleeping with his dog? Can we also excuse bestiality as a show of love?

2) If you claim God created man and woman with natural tendencies to be attracted to the same sex. Why in the first place did God create the male and female? And not male/male or male/female?

1. Sex is not show of love if it is not mutually consented.

2. Isaiah stated that God created log and darkness. He created the eye for sight, and deliberately chose not to give the poor blind boy sight not until Jesus fix the error. Remember, this blind boy didn't lost his sight because of his sin, his blindness was all to the glory of God. Awamaridi !!

OkCornel:
We'll get back to this matter of strange flesh (which other bible translations also call unnatural desire)

K

OkCornel:
You mean the relationship between David and Jonathan? How is that an evidence of homosexual relationship? That they were very close friends mean they were homosexuals?

Alright, remember Jesus loves the little children, does it make Jesus a Paedophile?

Also remember John claimed Jesus called him (John) the beloved disciple. Does it also mean Jesus is gay?

Many scholars and writers have argued that the relationship between Jonathan and David is romantic rather than been casual friendly relationship.

While it is fact that David is married, what he had with Jonathan is pure romantic. For a fact, they had knowledge of their nudity, which is evidence of sexual practises.

OkCornel:
In the new testament, we can start with Paul's letter to the Romans in Chapter 1 v 26-28;

Romans 1 v 26-28 (AKJV)
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


Then let's move on to Paul's letter to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 6 v 9-10;

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.



Also read Paul's letter to Timothy in 1 Timothy 1 v 8-10 (KJV);

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


What do you think of the scriptures above?

With the help of commentaries and concordance, I am able to understand the act of homosexuality is disgusting and very detestable. That is, sexual affair is purposely to procreate. Since homosexual acts doesn't lead to reproduction of new life, it is perceived disgusting or destestable.

Even though homosexual acts don't procreate, they are 'naturally' attracted to one another. And the attraction is bounded by love. I am of the view that God is not against been natural, and loving another person.

The Definition of Sin

1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P6A.HTM#$21C

If my understanding of statement above is correct, it implies that any action that isn't isn't founded on genuine love for God and fellow human is a sin. On another round, an action that injures, cause pain or wound to man is sin.

Homosexuality from much that I know is founded on natural love to fellow men or women. The attraction for their fellow is inbuilt. This trait can be found among animals. Let me say, that is how God made them, not how they made themselves.

And the act doesn't cause pain, injury or wound to another person. Are they mutually happy with their actions? Yes.


The biblical aspect of the argument above;

Roman 13:8-10

8: Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
9: The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: 10: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.



The bible passage also confirms that love fulfills the law. It doesn't harm others or cause people pain. This implies that sin is the absence of love.

Act of homosexuality is that of love which doesn't cause harm or pain to people. The act is simply an expression of love between mutually attracted adults. The attraction is natural, the love is natural, the act is consensual, and no one is been hurt either by it, it shouldn't be a sin or wrong.

Unless maybe there is a verse in the bible that speak against the love between homos, the act isn't a sin.

OkCornel:
In this instance, the Angels took the form of men (i.e. they were flesh and blood for this particular assignment)

Bear in mind Genesis 18 v 1-2 when the Lord and those two angels first appeared to Abraham, they showed up as men (flesh and blood), rather than their true form...

1 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 and he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground


.

Very apt. I appreciate that scrutiny response. I read quickly through the Bible passage and thought the act of homosexuality is not entirely wrong.

My observations;

- sex with beautiful men is norm in the city. Lot is aware of this practice.

- the city men saw the angel as human, they did not have knowledge the visitors were heavenly beings taking human form.

- Lot recognized his visitors weren't human even when they appeared as one. He knew they were angels.

- the wicked act, is therefore referring to actions of the people who wanted to have sex with Angels in human form (strange flesh).


If the above is correct, the Bible account reveals that the wrong the people did is attempting to have sex with Angels (not men), not homosexuality. On another turn, bible accounted love between Solomon and David, the relationship is homosexual in nature and it wasn't recorded as wrong.

Maybe you may help and show us, outside Lot story, where homosexuality is refer to as sin. Thanks

OkCornel:
Muttley, muttley, muttley. I have told you what going after strange flesh is. The unnatural desire for a man to lust after a fellow man and have sex with him.

Strange flesh in this context i.e. unnatural desire of a man burning with desire and lust for a fellow man.

Don't want to join in this homo discussion. I have read through some pages, and will like to ask you a pertinent question.

Homosexuality as defined by you is ' unnatural desire of a man burning with desire and lust for a fellow man'.

If the definition above is correct, does that mean you are equating Angel (spirit) to Man (flesh)?

Don't take offense in my question, the discussion presently is centred on 'going after strange flesh...',
Has an angel ever been flesh?

My understanding of what about Angel is that they are heavenly beings devoid of blood and flesh. The natural system and feature of a man cannot be found in them, hence they cannot be referred or categorised with men. At such, Angel doesn't fit into definition of homosexuality (sexual desire of man to another man). Also, Angel are not flesh and cannot be categorised under 'strange flesh'.

You may have another angle to Angel been men or flesh, and will appreciate if you can present it.

Please I need your help @Jidesm.. My sim went missing two weeks ago. I bought the sim in 2007 (that is the exact year but can't remember actual day/month). So I went to an mtn agent for sim welcome back with my valid id and registration details. He did the necessary thing and told me the sim will work after 24hrs.

Two days later, the sim refused to work. I returned it to the agent who told me the picture on the database does not conform with my present image. I argued it has been 12yrs since I bought the sim and I have changed physically. Also requested to see the picture. He showed a picture that isn't mine and told me that is what is on the database. It is unbelievable. I registered the sim myself back then and did updated it when I was in the varsity.

The agent told me to look for the person on the picture or the swap won't be validated. The fact is I don't know who the person. How can I retrieve my sim back? Thanks

vaxx:
Evolution does not contradict inteligent design in my own opinion . What if evolution is the mechanical tool for inteligent design. Inteligent design can include evolution.

Evolution has overwhelmingly evidence that any accurate and legitimate findings against it could rewrite biology textbook and practically change our medical health understanding.

Can you please enlighten me about the evidences you talk about?

johnydon22:
What's your idea then? Any alternative?

Both evolution and Intelligent Design are pathway to finding truth. Although, there is no substantial fact to buttress any of these but there are substance of truth in both paths. At that, we should seek the whole truth instead of picking sides.

Like I posted on this forum, Ifa made mention of human evolution. And it states that Edun (Primate) and Ibeji (human twin) are cousins. Another verse also focus on Ape and human living together as one, how human became intellectual and modernized and how Ape were confined into forest. These all points to evolution.

Also, Ifa specifically point that there was a creation. It focus on human creation. And the task were undertaken by many deities. Obatala take control of flesh, Oduduwa taking over the internal system, Sango taking over sight and electrical flow, Ogun taking of bone, Orunmila taking of intelligence, Ajala taking of consciousness, Esu taking care reasoning, Ori taking care of reality. In all these, Yoruba people assume Ori is our creator (it is the spark of consciousness).

Maybe if I will pick side, I will stand with theistic evolution, an evolution process guided by divinity. Even at that, I am open to knowing more on evolution and Intelligent Design.

Evolution and Intelligent Design both have no tangible evidence.

Mowoe:
You're being unnecessarily silly because you obviously have no rebuttal for my 'Deceitful Rhetoric'. If you know anyone that went for the Ad-Hoc Staff training or participated in the conduct of the elections you can ask them to find out whether my 'Rhetocric' is 'deceitful' or nay.
Pardon me for my previous comment; I did not mean to be as harsh.

The duty of verifying the nature of your fabulous tale is on the shoulder of INEC counsel and the honorable court of law. Oga take your no sense story to the tribunal. We don't need it here.

Mowoe:
Don't mention me if you're blinded by tribal, religious, political or whatever sentiments or if you just want to be plain stupid.

You were ranting a while ago about how INEC trained up their staff on how to access or transmit election results to INEC server. Why can't you go to the tribunal and tell them your silly and deceitful rhetoric?

Mowoe:
I went for the INEC Ad-Hoc staff training but did not participate in the conduct of the elections. I remember vividly during the training, the SPO (Supervisory Presiding Officer) rightly said after the votes had been counted, the results were to be written on the results sheet (Form EC8A, i think); and after the general conduct of the election, the results for each party were to be entered in the SCRs (Smart Card Readers). The SPO laid emphasis up on the fact that the results on paper had to tally with the SCR's.

He said after the results had been entered, the SCRs would automatically calculate the data entered,
after which the PO (Presiding Officer) would connect the SCR to the interenet by means of Data or Wifi and then transmit the results to "INEC's Server" wich is the central point for all results transmitted by SCRs. He said this is in a bid to curb electoral fraud and because whatever results was written on paper would tally with those on the SCRs, it would be impossible to manipulate results on Paper as INEC would already have the results on its "Server" which tallies with what was on paper initially.

For INEC officials to claim they do not have a server is completely false. Where did the results collated and transmitted via the SCRs go? INEC is just one compromised body, just like other 'independent Organizations' in the country.

In conclusion, INEC has a server; I doesn't matter how much they try to deny it.

Take your experience to the Tribunal where it is needed. You can be called in as witness.

Submit the video as evidence to the tribunal, and stop disturbing us with irrelevant stuff.

vaxx:
You love asking illogical questions and this is one of them.


Unintelligent as usual.....

Tunche. Said it exactly as it is.

Lxdd:
Very true. So such stories should not be treated as facts("electrical energy is Sango"

When facts equal western standard.

Lxdd:
I don't think our ancestors UNDERSTOOD nature per se. What they gave(the stories) are just the "logical" explanations of the phenomenon they observed. Not that they necessarily understood it.

There is no way one can present a logical explanation for a phenomenon you do not understand. Understanding in this case might not be same with western scientific standard.

tintingz:
You didn't tell us how thunder becomes the king of Oyo, living with them.

You should be registered into crèche where you can start learning A for Apple, B for ball.

Afterward, you should start reading about personification, anthropomorphism, apotheosis, deification, and allegory.

Without understanding basic Alphabets, word and terminology, you are long lost discussing topic complex like this.

tintingz:
A.k.a fairytale.

You wish it was.

So far, I have presented historical and scientific facts embedded in the allegorical story.

Your retort into fallacy cannot save you.

tintingz:
It never reach vexing my brother.

Your public display of gross ignorance can make one sick

tintingz:
Our business.

You should work hard on understanding simple terminologies and conceptions before engaging people that have other views.

The way your comrade rejects you, the woeful embarrassment you bring to your personality, and the unrelenting display of idiocy clearly shows you are a person without shame.

Peace out

tintingz:
How did energy like lightning and thunder become the king of Oyo and marry wives? Did people saw lightning and thunder in person and his water and wind wives in person?

Another turn in an endless circling. Do you even read
? Go back to my previous post. Stop exhibiting your shallowness to the public

tintingz:
Are these fact or just some fairytales?

They are personification duh!

tintingz:
I thought babalawos and Ifa preists can here what these Gods said?

That is because you think like a dolt

tintingz:
Ok. It's a cosmic explosion, it exploded kaboom!

Your business.

Goodnight

frank317:
Chairman, it is sometimes annoying to read posts.

What's dumb about the question? Why should any one worship a tree in his back yard, when this act of worship adds no relevance to u? Not that the tree asked to be worshipped.

Why will I acknowledge and worship sun when the sun will always shine regardless of my worship.

Why do u call this question dumb? Are u just trying to sound smart by making baseless statements?

People acknowledge money, they don't pray to it, they recognise its worth because if they have it they can do things and they recognise those activities that will make u have it. No one prays to money.

Country not a thing, it is a group of people who share the same goal. They recognise its worth because of the advantage of sharing common goal. If they don't, they might suffer for not sharing this goal... Things like war, hunger and corruption are the effect of not acknowledging us country.

Tell me why I should worship and acknowledge sun or tree? Is it just for the fun of it? Isn't that just a usless act?

I have answered you but you keep repeating the same irrational questions. Is it that you have issue with comprehensiveness and understanding?

The purpose of spirituality is to connect oneself to the essence of another being. Do you understand this philosophical stance? I bet, you do

In Yoruba spirituality, one essence is referred to as Ori. Ori generally mean consciousness, the innermost self or original self. That is the you that answers the philosophy question of "who am I?"

Yoruba people believe everything that exist has an Ori (essence) and ase (energy).

Therefore, a spiritualist connects its inner self to the Ori of the so called tree, sun or whatever, with the aim of annexing the ase (energy) of these entities.

While everything has ori and ase (everything including tree, river and sun is conscious), Yoruba spirituality primarily focus on 401 orisa (selected consciousness). Each one of 'selected consciousness' is been studied, observed and experienced through spiritual arts which enable them to tap into the "selected consciousness" ase (energy).

You may not still understand but read about the practise of Yoga. It will help you understand how energy is been annexed spiritually.


Acknowledging the worth of something is the same thing as worshipping something. The way you present it as something different reveals how shallow your thinking is.

And thank goodness you admit people acknowledge money. Actually people acknowledge worth of money which mean they are worshipping money. Since money is been worshipped or revered, it becomes a God. Simple.

It is also a silly attempt to stamp worshipping and prayer together as if they mean the same thing. Fan worship celebs but does that mean they pray to celebs? Maybe you don't know celebs are mini idols, ask Rihanna who claimed Fela is her God. It doesn't mean Rihanna pray to Fela in the corner of her room.

With the way you guys reason and argue aimlessly, I suspect you are toddlers.


Before you start all over again asking me irrational questions, you need to understand what spirituality is, how it is connectedness with nature, understand what is being and essence, and understand philosophy of existence. As at now, what you purge is embarrassing

tintingz:
Does energy talk to babalawo?

For n umpteenth time, babalawo only observes the behavior of energy. On a literal sense, energy does not talk.

Energy frequency and vibrating patterns can provide alot of information and data which can be noted by observant (Babalawo)

tintingz:
Sango has wives, can you explain how energy like thunder and lightning has wives?

There is no way I can explain this without dropping the story of Sango and his wife. Therefore, permit me to key on important part of the story.

* The story hold that Sango was the king of Oyo kingdom, had three wives, Oba, Osun and Oya. He was a fearsome warrior.

* He had a device called Edun Ara which he use to direct lightning strike against his enemy at war. This device, he kept it with his youngest wife, Oya.

* Osun, his second wife was a peaceful and easy going person. When her husband is at rage and want to wage war, she would bring her feminine prowess of calming him down.

* Oya on the other round loves to fight. She was always in the front, alongside with Sango in the battle field. When Sango become, she lead the way to war.

You can read more on the story here https://www.nairaland.com/2431386/sango-olukoso


The three characters in the story are recognised as:

Sango, God lightning and thunder.

Osun, Goddess of fresh water.

Oya, Goddess of wind (violent wind).


Outside spiritual worldview;

Sango represents electrical energy.

Osun represent non-salty or fresh water.

Oya represent air.


Please you need to understand the above clearly before proceeding further. If you dont understand, please read it again.

To answer your question "the role of wives in electrical energy discharged by lightning"

Our primal focal would be on Osun been a woman that calm her husband when at rage, and Oya who is eager to fight by the side of her husband, and how it relate with Electric energy discharge (Lightning)


1. Science posit that Lightning is a violent and sudden electrostatic discharge in the atmosphere.
The story holds that Sango is a fearsome warrior.

2. Science hold that Lightning primarily occurs when warm air is mixed with colder air.
The story holds that lead the front to battleground when Sango is angry.

3. Science understand that in the air, there is free electron. It plays an important role in atmospheric electrification leading to the complex electrical nature of air.
The story mentioned that Oya keeps the device Sango fight with in the battle front.

4. Science also held that when lightning strikes, the molecules of air get ionized and electrons are available to flow to make the current and conduct electricity through air and can potentially kill or destroy anything it hit.
Story above reveal that when Sango is at war, Oya is on his side fighting.

5. Scientific studies have shown that nothing happens when lightning hit fresh or pure water. In fresh water, there are no mobile electrons or mobile ions to conduct electricity.
The story above explains that Osun which represent poses an ability of calming Sango when he is angry.

6. Science reveals that when lightning hit salty water, current flow can happen, meaning electricity can pass through.
The story carefully employed the character Osun (fresh water) instead of Olokun (salty water)

7. Science shown that lightning basically stays on the surface of water instead of penetrating it. Water disperses electrical charges while wind conveys electrical charges until it hit a point.
The story posit that Osun calm his raging husband Sango while Oya edges him to fight on.


The correlations above have shown that Oya, Osun and Sango are practical personification of a natural phenomenon namely, lightning and electrical energy.

Your ancestors were great people who understood how nature works. They kept this knowledge with them through ages.

What more do you want to know? Go to your oldies and ask them to explain more of the spirituality to you. And instead of writing it off as myth, you should take your time to understand the message been passed.

tintingz:
Sigh, SMH.

You may keep your half baked knowledge to yourself. There was cosmic explosion which lead to continual expansion. You should read your books instead of arguing blinding on nairaland

tintingz:
You haven't answer my question, how did ancient people arrive at that particular characteristics/mythology of calcium the one you call Ogun? Did Calcium communicate to them?

That is because you are asking irrational and very dumb questions. I keep repeating they arrived at their conclusion after critical observations.

For an umpteen time, they arrived at their conclusion after observing critically nature.

Ogun been a deity represent everything metallic. Calcium is metal. Therefore Ogun is Calcium.

It would have been a grave mistake if they had said Yemoja, a deity that represent water created bone. This is because water and bone have nothing in common.

This shows that they are intelligent folks and understood how nature works.

Your attempts at making mythology to sway the course this discussion fails.

tintingz:
Ok, did energy send prophets to people?

Stop reasoning like an idiot. There is nothing like prophet in Yoruba spirituality. Prophet is woli in yoruba. That is a christian and Islamic thing. What we have here is Babalawo and Iyalawo which mean the masters of esoteric and mysteries. Awo is esoteric or mystery. These are body of knowledge that would take time to study. It entails everything from physics, to mathematics to medicine, to philosophy, to morality, to history and lot of field of knowledge.

Babalawo understands energy and can manipulate it at wills.

tintingz:
They believe in a personal God so yeah they are not exempted from your claims.

How many times do I have to tell you personal god is personification of impersonal forces? Do I need to break your head before you assimilate that?

tintingz:
Lol, energy is confined in this universe, it's no different from every other phenomena in the universe, are you saying God is limited here? If you agree to this then we're cool. Because most theists will not agree to this.

Yoruba spirituality is naturalistic pantheism. Everything is God to them within nature.

Oh, you thought I was discussing some Christianity bullshiiit with you

tintingz:
And please there was no explosion, the big bang is not an explosion but expansion, I've corrected you before.

My book told me there was a cosmic explosion. You didn't make this observations. You read it just like I do.

tintingz:
Are you saying the personification of these deities are fairytales? Why must they personify? We can understand nature without some fairytales of some deities.

You ain't smart. You called these stories tales which are not. Fairy tale in Yoruba is known as Alo. These are meant for the kids.

The personification of natural entities is a way of expressing observation of nature.

The Ifa verse which contain these stories entail historical facts. There are no facts in tales.

How would you explain energy in Yoruba? What is energy in Yoruba? Let us start with that

tintingz:
Did ancient people just woke one day and started formulating mythology for these gods, why are they different mythology for these gods? Like Thor myths is different to Sango myths.

You are screaming mythology like your life depends on it. Sango existed in history as the third king in Oyo kingdom. His reign is well documented.

Sango also is personification of electrical energy. This stem from critical observation of nature.

tintingz:
The ancient people were ignorant of these phenomena they started developing myths and fairytales for these phenomena to fill up the gaps, that's just it. We don't need mythologies to explain nature today, they are irrelevant.

How did you know they were ignorant? And who said we needed mythology? What has mythology got to do with personification? You keep making up nauseating garbage just to argue for nothing sake.

Were the Godon of Mali who observed Sirius B and incorporated it into their spirituality ignorant of the stars?

Were the Africans that formulated astronomy through observation of universe ignorant of nature?


Spirituality gave birth to modern science. You should trace the root of your modern knowledge and philosophy to ancient spirituality where it sprang from.

tintingz:
I still don't get why energy require to be worship, like is it happy you're worshipping it? Does it even care? Why bother? It does not even talk to you or does it?

You are asking dumb questions. Worship mean acknowledging worth of something or someone. People acknowledge the worth of their country, does that mean their nation is happy they are worshipping it?

People acknowledge worth of money, does that money talk to them?

People acknowledge worth of their existence, does that mean existence care about them?

You are acting dumb and too shallow towards reasoning. Please work hard on your reasoning.

tintingz:
Is this a fairytale or fact?

I mean how do people made up the characteristics of energy into a personal God, did energy ever interact with them?

Sorry pal, your question is not making any sense.

People actually observed nature or energy, and personified this observations for better way of expression.

Let me give you an example.

Yoruba people hold that Ogun, a professional blacksmith and fearsome warrior, moulded human bone according to the cosmological story.

Science however, holds that Calcium aids the growth of bones.

I will simply tell you that Ogun, god of iron is Calcium or personification of calcium.

On a literal sense, Ogun is a professional blacksmith, a deity that makes skeleton in heaven.

Beyond the literal sense, Ogun is anything metallic.

Calcium is a metallic chemical element.

Therefore Calcium is Ogun.


The method of expression is the only difference. Both Ogun in that story and calcium in scientific view are the same.

In the right sense, Ogun is the personification of Calcium.

tintingz:
Some people believe God will throw people inside hell, did energy also told them that?

Why do your viewpoint revolve around Christianity and Islam? How many religion outside Abrahamic faith believe in hell and heaven mumbo jumbo?

There are more to life than Xtianity and Islam, grow up dolt.

tintingz:
I'm still trying to understand the connection with the nature of energy and a personal God.

I have presented the connection in my previous post on this thread. You might have missed it though.

God has no beginning or end. So does energy. It has been there before the cosmic explosion and is still here as the universe expands continually.

God is omnipresent. So does energy. It is every where in the universe.

God is omnipotent. So does energy. With the ability to annex energy, everything is doable.

God is invisible. So does energy.

God manifest in his creature. So does energy. Matter is made up of energy.

God was not created and not die. So does energy, it cannot be created or destroyed.

God creates everything. So does energy. Everything that exist is made up of energy.

You still want more?

tintingz:
Can you explain how ancient people arrive at that belief? By believing energy is anthropomorphic?

Ancient people (spirituality) clearly understood nature and how it works. They actually explain their observations through anthropomorphism.

This implies that what they refer to as God/deity is personification of nature or natural entities or forces or energy.

I listed an example of personified energy in Hinduism. It is called Shakti.

On this forum, I argued that Sango is electrical energy. Make my deduction from praises and Ifa verses on Sango.

tintingz:
Most theists believe God must transcend outside the universe to be independent or God will just be a natural phenomena bound to our universe just like every other natural phenomena if he's inside the universe.

The way you guys brandish the phrase "most theists" is funny.

Yes, in some theistic conception of God, a supreme God exist that transcend the universe. Also, in some other concepts, God is seen as equal with Nature.

You my dear are an African. If I am not mistaken, you are a Nigerian. You must have witnessed a situation where people worship trees, stones, rivers or animal in your locality. These entities been worshipped are natural, and also recognized deities. You wouldn't tell me a river transcend nature. Would you?

tintingz:
What makes you think it's worthy of worship, does energy care? Give me reasons energy is worthy of worship.

Acknowledging worth of something or someone does not mean that thing must care about you. People revere anything that they hold in high esteem. It could be the Sun, Ocean or valleys or money or offices.

My source of existence, the profound source of existence is the Cosmic Singularity known as Eledumare in Yoruba spirituality. And science has shown us that matter is energy. If that is true, energy worth something. If not for anything but for my existence.

TheArranger:
.

Side note: Common sense alone should tell you that "A-Theism"(did you see that?) has nothing to do with any worldview that isn't theistic. Thus, the last parts of your post in red shouldn't even be pondered on at all. But what do i know sir? Hmm?

Theism can be categorized into monotheism, pantheism and deism. Isn't it?

But your focus is on Abrahamic concept of God which is monotheism. The OP has been Christian this, muslim that. Is that the only religion out there? Ain't there naturalistic Pantheism which view nature as God?

When you meet a natural pantheist and tell him/her God doesnt exist, he will look at you as stupid.