₦airaland Forum

advanceDNA:
I am not talking about Nigeria alone.. and u are the one lying cos u don't have statistics to back your erronous claim that there are equal men and women in nursing..

There are more female nurses than male everywhere in the world..united state has the highest..and it just grew to a mere 12% recently, according to the bereau of labour statistics....just as there are more male in engineering than women...
u think women don't study engineering...they eventually leave and end up doing other things...

The equality of opportunity is fine...that's acheivable... But U can't force out individual or group outcome...that's a fact ....

If u like seff...prevent men from contesting for the next election... The love women have for family will prevent many of them from remaining in politics for long...how many women have risk apetite like tinubu, like ffk, like fayose, oshiomole...

Women will tell u men marginalize them ..but the good heart and caring soul they are wired with more than men is mostly why they won't leave family and chase career full speed..

Give a man a 1.5million naira manager job in maidugurii and he will not think twice before leaving his family... Give a woman the same job and she will remember her kids first cos she won't even want to leave her kids with anyone ...not even her husband..

In some SOCIETIES there are almost equal number men and women doctotos and nurses. Why would OBG/YN doctors be mostly men??
But the question is marginalization. If men and women were two different tribes in Nigeria, it will be obvious to anybody that one tribe is marginalized

advanceDNA:
many men are not nurses not becos culture or society or anything is hindering them but becos most men are not wired that way in the end.. its called eventual outcome....even if many men study nursing today, you will eventually find many of them going into something else....
we have more male engineers today becos of the way men are wired, not because someone hindered women....in fact half the few women in engineering today will still somehow end up as makeup artist or dealer in women and baby clothing....why..."eventual outcome"

. so if you like give all the women scholarship in the world to study engineering for free(its great).....i tell u ..u will still have more men in engineering and practicing it at the end because u cant force equality of eventual outcome, no matter how much u force equality of opportunities..... men and women are not wired by nature the same way........corporations?

You are ridiculously wrong and easily proven so. You forget Nigeria is not the only country in the world. In some societies there are almost same number of male and female doctors and nurses, and more and more men going into nursing due to corona. What prevents Nigerian men from entering an in-denand field like nursing. Therin lies your answer.(We know from other societies that it is not "male wiring"

angelfallz:
Lol they are not the exceptions. Those are just a few that I know. There are millions of other women making it.

Name them. Who are the senatirs and Governors and heads of coporations?

JayCynic:
Bullshit
There's nothing that excludes men from nursing, all you have to do to be a nurse is apply for an SON exams, get good grades, pass the interview, study for three years and come out with good grades and viola you're an RN.

Most men just don't want to be nurses because they just don't want to be nurses. Period

See! You just hit the answer. Read your last statement again. See how it makes no sense? What led to them not wanting to be nurses but would rather stay unemployed or be doing some filthy job? Therein lies your answer

Godoverevery:
And the question is who are the people who program them to fail

Is it the men that tell the girl child all she needs is to get a rich man and that all??

The female have themselves to blame for this and not we men..

Nothing will be handed over to you....you must fight for it because that life.

And that's why they are crying marginalization yet you are saying they are not marginalised, when the results clearly shows THEY ARE! The females are not be blamed. The paternalistic society is to be blamed and needs to be reformed and that is what they are fighting for. Nobody is asking you to hand over anything

advanceDNA:
All you have is fallacy...from birth?....culture??,,,,,what culture, what tradition?? this is not 1945 where there are no tampons, and culture/ society prevented women from doing almost everything... you are just sounding like you are reading...

no body or culture is stopping anyone...again this is 2021....if men want to become nurses they would....most men dont just like nursing... its that simple....
women that want to be CEOs and leaders should go ahead and stop claiming culture and men are hindering them... this is 2021 for fvcking crying out loud

I don't think you know the meaning of fallacy. So why don't men become nurses which is in high demand instead of being unemployed? Nursing is a JOB and there is no part of it a man can't do very well. It is not the job, it is tradition and societal conditioning and expectations - same things that have women excluded from so many career paths in Nigerian society. It is like saying all one needs is pass an exam to get in - ignoring that some people have been systemically programmed to fail the exam or not even apply to take the exam. Evidence of systemic exclusion is in the result

PrimadonnaO:
To allude women's decision to not aspire to certain positions and heights to societal conditioning is just too intangible.

How can that be measured?


How have you reached that conclusion?

So if a woman says "I'm not running for the office of the President because society doesn't expect me to" do you think she still has any right to scream marginalisation?

No, she doesn't. Because her limitation is in her head, and there is nothing in the real sense stopping her from breaking free of it.

Learn meaning of the word "systemic". The prevention is systemic. The evidence is in the results. Any desirable sicietal achievement you see lopsidedly excluding one group is evidence of systemic exclusion.
Example, you may say all one needs is pass an exam to get in - ignoring that some people have been systemically programmed to fail the exam.

Owen247:
I can recall , i said its my opinion sha. But u havent ansad my question

What question?

PrimadonnaO:
This is quite intangible.

Meaning what? It takes a rare breed of woman and unique set of circumstances to overcome societal traditions and culture and programming and expectations and rise to the top

Owen247:
Apart from d usual routine checks by d doctor, who spends more time with a patient. Is it a doctor or d nurse?

My friend it is tradition and societal conditioning and expectations. Are nurses you know kinder than doctors?? Some nurses are plain wicked. It is a JOB and there is no part of it a man can't do and do very well!

Favfables:
Exactly my point, if they can beat social conditioning and rise to the top on this matter, what is stopping them from beating this so called social conditioning and rising to the top in other fields

What do you mean exactly your point? I am telling you that same way SOME women do bad things despite societal expectations, same way SOME women rise to the top despite societal conditioning and expectations. Most women don't fall into those categories and they take unique set of circumstances and persons

njelrapheal:
What do you mean by paternalistic society. Can you site examples of these stronger things that stop women . Do you have data to support this especially in the area of education and politics

In Nigeria, right from birth and even before birth women are marginalized by traditions, customs, culture, and societal conditioning and expectations. They are systemically excluded from certain jobs and career paths, baring a unique set of circumstances - almost same way men are excluded from nursing, for example, but more powerful

Owen247:
now i think this have to do with emotions cus women are more compationate than men etc u understand all those motherly emotions.thats what is needed thats what i think makes women more viable for nursing than men.

Not at all. Are those not the same thing required of a doctor? In some countries there are equal numbers of male and female nurses and doctors. It is societal conditioning, not the job

Favfables:
You say it is culture and custom that's stopping women from achieving those things....
Now I ask...

Does our culture not demand that women respect and submit to men?? But how many women actually do so??

Does our culture and custom not forbid lesbianism?? Are there no lesbians in Nigeria??

Does our culture and custom allow women to smoke and drink?? But yet does it not happen??

Does our culture and custom allow women to sleep around?? But yet are they no babies Mama's??

If women can go against this part of culture and custom, why can't they go against the part of the culture and custom that's stopping them from achieving greatness??

What percentage of women do all these things? Probably the same percentage that beat societal conditioning and rise to the top

BigBellyBurst:
Actually the op's right.

Women are actually enjoying life, but the more you have the more you want which is what is happening.

I have never seen a woman push truck, pack dirt, heave a full 12kg gas can, work in the coal mine and all those other "hard" work. And it's not like u see anyone stopping them from doing, they don't want to do it because they know deep down that they can't do those kind of jobs.

JayCynic:
You're the one who is too delusional to accept reality.
If women are afforded equal opportunities as men, given the same rights as men, allowed to compete for leadership positions as much as men, accorded the same suffrage as men, allowed to own, administer and distribute wealth as men, allowed to be employed in the same jobs as men.

Women are allowed to do literally everything that men can do.

How then are women marginalized?

The very system (culture, traditions, expectations. conditioning, etc) excludes them right from birth and even b4 birth. Male nurses is a good example - the same "thing" that excludes men from nursing also marginalizes women and excludes them from those other jobs, not because nursing is so hard!

Krismas:
Mr agent of darkness is Madagascar sub Saharan Africa? Covid is the greatest scam in this 21st century

See below. Note the dates

Timagex:


Photographers are jobless? Can I at least see some of the fine photographs you captured recently?

Here

advanceDNA:
what the Op has been asking u is ....show proof that women are excluded from these jobs
how are women excluded?? who systematically excluded women....u dont just they are excluded becos they are not many in these job roles...how many male nurses are in the nigeria... are men excluded from nursing? yes, some people laugh and mock male nurses... but does that mean men are excluded.....

stop deceiving urself ....women dont want equality when it comes to plumbing, carpentry, mechanic, underwater engineer, trailer driving, etc...
they want equality in juicy places of power and they dont want to fight for it...they want men to roll over and hand it over....they want law to make seats of power available to them automatically and uncontestable by any man...even in company's board ....they want automatic vicepresident seat by law, commissioner seats, all those seats that dont need election...
and when there would be election,,,,men should not be allowed to compete....

its what Scandinavian countries are doing now, surpressing men so that women can rise...its not hidden.... lets see how far it goes..

last last we all need each other

The word is "systemically" not "systematically". The very system (culture, traditions, expectations. conditioning, etc) excludes them right from birth and even b4 birth. Your example of male nurses is a good example - the same "thing" that excludes men from nursing also excludes women from those other jobs and it is actually stronger than a law, not because nursing is so hard!

Krismas:
I think a good example of wot u mean is Nigeria with only 5million vacation in 200million population density! That must be why we have a high rate of infection

As we all know, Mr. Lnatic, Nigeria and entire sub-Saharan Africa are exceptions

SenecaTheYonger:
No they can’t. Stop looking for excuses.

Yes they can. The entire system is geared towards exactly that. Right from birth, even b4 birth when the parents prefer boy, parental expectations and conditioning, societal culture, customs, and traditions, etc. It takes a RARE human indeed and very unique set of circumstances to be able to overcome all that

Krismas:
U have descended into lie telling, by saying none of the previous drugs yielded results after scientific PROBES. Cos NO probes were conducted on those drugs at all! And they were the drugs that cured many of the Virus before they were banned. A doctor said she treated over 500 Covid cases wit hydroxyl chloroquine only to be told by an academic doctor at FDA that the drug does not work! She asked if he had treated any Covid patient? He said NO! I repeat, by ur touting this drug, it wouldn’t surprise me if turns out to be WORTHLESS

You are the one lying. See below

membranus:
Don't you have any other objection than this your "paternalistic society" rebuttal. Even what you meant by the term, and how it has affected the Okonjo Iwealla, Awosika, Usman, Ezekwesili, Merkel and Thatcher from getting to the top, you failed to enlighten us. You keep on repeating the same thing. Please find better argument to butress your point.

It is not just paternalistic society. It is the entire system, from top to bottom. Right from birth, even b4 birth, parental expectations and conditioning, societal customs and traditions, etc. Of course there are always exceptions but it takes the rare woman indeed and unique set of circumstances to overcome all that

cococandy:
The people you’re addressing are too dumb for this conversation.
As if outlawing gender based marginalization automatically means everyone’s mindset has changed and men in authority will stop their discrimination against women.

It’s like talking to goats. They won’t get it

Oh, I know it's an exercise in futility. Thsnks

Krismas:
Mr agent of darkness! Yes the study I posted was conducted earlier in the year. So? Does that change the reality? That after 2shots of Pfizer u stand 60% chance of reinfection from Delta variant as opposed to if u were not vaccinated! Clearly means the vaccine reduces ur ability to handle the sickness. As for the stats u posted, nothing in the stat suggests the reduction in Covid infection is due to vaccination! And besides, How can a population where 70% are vaccinated still record over 2,000 cases of infection DAILY?? How many are they in Israel? 8million people or so! U were not even ashamed to post that stat? All I could see was the USELESSNESS of the Covid vaccine

Mr. Lunatic stick your nose out of youtube and look around you. CIVID19 IS BEING DEFEATED IN COUNTRIES THAT HAVE HIGH VACCINATION RATES, WHILE COUNTRIES THAT DON’T HAVE REMAINED SAME OR GOTTEN WORSE!

PrimadonnaO:
You know you've not said anything, yeah?

How has the paternalistic society stopped women from aspiring to be Presidentz et al?

By conditioning and expectations, that's how. Human beings don't aspire to things you've conditioned them to believe from childhood is beyond them. Only the rare woman indeed can overcome such conditioning

pansophist:
Rubbish. Total, arrant, rubbish.

Using your logic, Nigeria is 50% men, how many women are electric pole climbers, shit packers, truck drivers, thief catchers, bricklayers, panel beaters, cow killers and more ? All my life, I've never seen women do these jobs. A question for you Mr equality, do you know any women that applied for these jobs that was rejected? Just one?

One more thing to add, the Scandinavia is praised as being the region on earth where gender equality is a reality of life. The government in Sweden comprises of women mostly even, just go to youtube and search for "Swedish House of assembly", its mostly women. Still, women don't do this jobs. Infact it is proven that the more equal a society becomes, then the work disparity widens.

Men still earn more than women everywhere because men do the jobs women don't want to do. Everywhere, there are advertisement about recruiting more women in STEM fields, but few applies. Now put advert about models needed, then it would be filled with women. The failure to accept that men and women are not the same, and also do not want the same thing is the basis for expecting 50/50 everywhere.

Nonsense

You are making my point! All those are jobs that put food on the table and women are systemically excluded from them! Yet u are insisting they contribute to family expenses equal to men. How hard is it to drive a taxi? But women are systemically excluded from it by societal expectations not because it is hard!

angelfallz:
Mrs Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala
Genevieve Nnaji
Mrs Omotola Jalade Ekeinde
Mrs Folorunsho Alakija
Late Mrs Dorathy Akunyili
Mrs Virginia Etiaba
Mrs Miriam Olusanya
Mrs Patricia Olubunmi Foluke Etteh
and many other Nigerian women who are making it, would strongly disagree with you.

And these are the exceptions. What percentage of the populace are these? Like I said, it takes the rare woman and circumstances to be able to rise above the conditioning and exoectations

SenecaTheYonger:
Presidents are not chosen based on law and culture but by law and politics. Nobody is going to throw a crown on a woman and call her president without her getting in the mud and fighting it out with other candidates

But they can systemically discourage her right from birth to even think of aspiring to such

Krismas:
Mr agent of darkness, u are d one that dont know wots up. Wot am saying to u in plain terms is that the drug is fishy, for gaining such ad, were others in the mix was banned and gaged. My initial suspicion is that the drug is only a capsulated mRNA rubbish. And for people like u to be taking abt it, makes it twice suspicious. Fingers crossed on it till Very knowledgeable Medics give us d wide of it

Very knowledgeable medics from youtube .
My friend forget anecdotes. Many things have been touted to cure covid and anecdotal evidence of cures offered. But when subjected to scientific scrutiny and testing they failed. Here's the FIRST pill that has been scientifically demonstrated to be 50% effective against mild to moderate covid cases

angelfallz:
Wow!!! so your evidence that women are being marginalised are those things you listed?

Now let me ask you is there any law stopping women from attaining such positions?

There is something even stronger than a law stopping them. At lease you can evade a law. It is customs and culture. It is the paternalistic society. It is conditioning and expectations. It is the entire system. Much more powerful than a mere law

Timagex:
Well, fortunately, I have noticed that, wise people who know the value of professionally taken photographs still hire professionals like me to document times and events. I must agree that, most people who have phones with cameras feel the same way you do, but, when they have important events to document, they forget the camera phones and hire true professionals. That's where we come in. Please, enjoy the rest of your day.

Enjoy the rest of your day too. I can take the best photos with my phone and post it on social media or anywhere. Don't need no jobless photographer!

The vast majority of women in Nigeria are NOT in the category described by OP. They are indeed marginalized and expected to be comfortable being second class citizens and very subservient to men

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Justbehave:
I want to hear from the ladies. @ OP. You ve said it all.My account officer is a lady rich and single. I have asked her this question once and her answer was that only a lazy and entitled lady can say that they are marginalized.

How many women are like your account officer? Nigeria is approximately 50% women. Look at the business, political, church, education, etc leadership landscapes in Nigeria. How many are wome??
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angelfallz:
What's your evidence?

Remember 50% are women. How many of the following have been women:
Presidents
Senators
Governors
House of reps
Millionaires and billionaires
Church leaders
Top business owners
Heads if universities
Heads of the military branches
Heads of labour unions
Etc.
Remember women are 50% of the population. What percentage of these do you think are women?
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Justbehave:
And who is stopping them from working? Tell yourself the truth. In banking sector,is it not women that are in majority? Do we see ourselves saying we are being marginalized?

The paternalistic society is stopping them. It is the way the society is structured. It is systemic. That's why they have a right to cry marginalixation.
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Decryptor:
Actually, the population of women in Nigeria is over 50%. To answer your question, the reason why they are not fully represented in those sectors you mentioned is because the present day Nigerian woman is laid-back and have this feeling of entitlement as per her gender.

They prefer to relax while the man hustles for them. The ultimate goal for them is marriage!

Not true AT ALL.
The fault lies with the paternalistic society NOT the women. It is the way the society is structured. It is systemic. Only the rare woman can rise above the conditioning and expectations.
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SenecaTheYonger:
He literally explained this in his post about wine not wanting to play politics because of how deadly it is.

At least Learn to read. There’s nothing stopping a women from being president. It’s not written in the constitution that a woman cannot be president. But there are less women willing to do it because they don’t venture into dangerous field.

Not true. There is something stronger than law stopping them. It is customs and culture. It is the paternalistic society. It is conditioning and expectations. It is the entire system. Much more powerful than a mere law!