₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
This is a proof that you don't even check verses i often cited well i can understand because you feel you are too big to learn from Jehovah's Witnesses.
So it's time to LEARN!

“Son of man, I have appointed you as a watchman to the house of Israel; and when you hear a word from my mouth, you must warn them from me. When I say to someone wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ but you do not warn him, and you fail to speak in order to warn the wicked one to turn from his wicked course so that he may stay alive, he will die for his error because he is wicked, but I will ask his blood back from you. But if you warn someone wicked and he does not turn back from his wickedness and from his wicked course, he will die for his error, but you will certainly save your own life" Ezekiel 3:17-19

God told Ezekiel that he should PREACH what he heard from God to the Israelites, those who listened and acted on what they heard will be saved but if Ezekiel failed to preach those people will perish but their blood God will ask from Ezekiel.

In harmony with what God told Ezekiel Apostle Paul told Timothy:

"Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you." 1Timothy 4:16

Timothy must preach and teach the Gospel to save himself and those who listened to him.

WHY?

Because the only service that makes us disciples of Christ Jesus is the WORK he assigned to us:

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things" Matthew 28:19-20

Jesus will deny whoever refuses to do this work because it's only those doing it that Jesus will be with not those shouting his name:

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’  And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness" Matthew 7:21-23

This is in harmony with God's will according to Ezekiel 3:17-19 which i quoted above whoever hears the Gospel but fails to tell others is not doing God's will! Revelations 22:17

You can see that you don't even know anything about the way to salvation {Isaiah 35:8} yet you want to condemn God's people who are zealously doing God's will!

This is absolutely turning the Scriptures upside down. I asked you to show me scriptures where it is said a man would perish for not preaching the gospel, you're posting something else.

1. Ezekiel was sent on an errand to proclaim God's Word to the people of Israel. A specific assignment given to him to execute. God said if he fails to warn a sinner and the sinner perishes because he was not warned, then the sinner's blood would be on Ezekiel's head. This scripture does not say that Ezekiel would perish for not preaching to the Israelites because:

Assuming the sinner self-repented and did not perish, Ezekiel won't be punished for not preaching to the self-repented sinner. No blood would be upon his head since nobody perished. The preaching itself is not what guarantees salvation for Ezekiel. The lack of preaching does not guarantee condemnation for Ezekiel in the same vein. Please read the Bible with understanding. Are you now saying all the Israelites who never preached to anyone would perish because of this Ezekiel's statement? The assignment was for Ezekiel alone. If God tells me that I would perish for not preaching to Maxindhouse, that's a personal message for me. That does not mean that everyone who does not preach to Maxindhouse would perish. You brought a clearly individualistic message to buttress a point that boarders on all Christians without considering the imbalance it has to what we're discussing.

Ezekiel would only perish on the condition that the person he was supposed to warn had perished for his failure to warn the person. Suppose the individual never perished, Ezekiel would not perish even though he didn't warn the person. However, God will still punish him for his disobedience as regards that personal assignment. Every disobedience will be judged.

Now, Timothy was a Bishop over a congregation. He had a duty to preach to the congregation. Paul advices him to preach to that congregation so as to save himself and the congregation. Why? This is because the Word of God is a two edged sword. As you preach to others to be saved, you're also preaching the same message to yourself. You continue to bring yourself into constant alignment with what the Holy Ghost has preached through you. God uses imperfect humans to convey His message. As we preach, we are also warned, chastised, taught, reproved and upbraided by our own messages. There'll be times God would make you see your own personal failings as you preach to others. Your message would speak to your own sins and weaknesses as well. You'll go on your knees in repentance after being chastised by your own message. You then "save yourself and them that hear thee." This is the reality for all preachers who have been called of God to teach the Word to the people of their generation. Paul never told Timothy that he'll perish for not preaching.

But, to the generality of Christians, we are encouraged to preach the gospel to others. We are promised crowns and rewards for every soul we win. You would miss out of your rewards only, if you fail to preach. There's no Scripture that says you'll be cast to hell or eternally condemned for preaching to no one.

If preaching was a requirement for salvation, it means that people who give their lives to Christ on their deathbeds would still not make heaven. The requirements for salvation is simple:

"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Anything contrary to the above Scripture is heresy.

Salvation is not by works. It's by grace. You can't save yourself, neither can you save any other man.

A man can even preach and still perish.

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is a lie!
Jesus COMMANDED all his disciples:

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things" Matthew 28:19-20

Whoever failed to participate in this work is directly disobeying God's only begotten Son whom we must OBEY to gain salvation. Philippians 2:10
We must all do the evangelizing work and fully accomplish our ministry as disciples of Christ Jesus {2Timothy 4:1-2} that is what it takes be be a TRUE BELIEVER in Christ Jesus for our salvation {John 3:16} Paul told Timothy "by preaching you will save both yourself and those who listened to you" 1Timothy 4:16 compare to Ezekiel 3:17-19

Ọmọ don't be deceived o whoever fails to preach and teach according to the command from God's son will perish! Luke 18:18-23

Tell.me where Jesus or any part of Scripture says anyone who does not preach the gospel would go to hell or perish.

babasolution:
You are just exhibiting your bitter soul,

Your talking Benin,Benin that was already a shadow of itself by the time of the British invasions, Benin had destroyed itself in civil war.

Christianity came with freedom was living which also encouraged corruption, truly there might have been less evil under traditional religion but it was with immense fear which was many times abused.

You people just talk like Africa was Uhuru prior to the British or Europeans.

There was a lot of oppression by those that wielded power, things were not as rosy in Africa as people like you paint.

In my village( I use my village as a typical case study) there were scattering of peoples due to wicked oppressive brutal kings,traditional religion aided their power, were they could sacrifice humans at will

What about the fact that oba esigie accepted planting of churches in benin to get access to guns.

Or the itsheriki kings accepting a form of Christianity to have increased access to Portuguese trade.

Read history from a neutral perspective you'll get to see the true picture.

Which resources did the British seize,when African rulers were falling over themselves to trade with the British.

Why did the British not impose Christianity on the Islamic north? Don't tell me they didn't have resources. ( they traded kola,nuts etc with the British).

Cocoa trade was introduced by the British and Yoruba leaders were falling over themselves to trade with the British in cocoa and it made many of them rich.

The missionaries were the ones that spread Christianity, what the British force did was to protect the missionaries and prevent any attack or persecution of Christians by local leaders.

If African leaders( prior to Christianity) refused to trade with the British they won't have been able to invade AFRICA.African leaders opened their territory to the British unlike Japan.in my village, the leaders refused to entertain entry to the British,eventually it was locals that brought Christianity and education.

Dahomey favoured selling slaves even when they were compelled to stop.Dahomey invaded Abeokuta to capture SLAVES ( this was a traditional worshipping state)

African leaders over eagerness to trade with the Europeans facilitated the eventual fall of African kingdoms.

Ajayi crowther was a big force that spread Christianity in the southern Nigeria as well as others,check the history of most villages it was returned slaves from Sierra Leone that spread Christianity in their villages.

In my village it was a trader that brought Christianity through trying to learn to read and write.

Christianity was never imposed on southern Nigeria, however it was protected and privileged. Most people accepted Christianity as young people, it was a trendy thing in that era,unlike the Muslim states were Islam was imposed through the rulers or by force.

Note some areas in Edo were Islam was allowed to thrive,why did the British not force the people to be Christians?

Why are people in kogi Muslims?

There was no record of forced conversion in NIGERIA. Many people willingly converted because of the opportunity it provided with education and prospect of working a more lucrative job than ordinary laborious farming.

You are just a bitter soul.

Africa failed itself prior to Christianity

A very bitter soul indeed. He was just wanting to force his garbage down people's throat.

The missionaries were different from the colonial masters. Missionaries were Blacks and White Christians who put their lives in jeopardy to spread Christianity. Many died from savage attacks and unfavorable preaching conditions. The colonial masters on the other hand were made up of nominal Christians, atheists, cultists etc, but this op wants us to believe that the colonial masters and the missionaries were the same. More disgusting is the fact that he abuses people and throw tantrums when responding to people who expose his lies. Such a bitter soul. Thank you for cutting him to size with your wise and patient responses.

MaxInDHouse:
Now you're talking!

Christianity is about salvation that's why most irrelevant laws has nothing to do with Christianity! Act 15:28-29

Salvation and service. That's Christianity.

Tithing has nothing to do with salvation, but it has its own rewards. Preaching the gospel has nothing to do with salvation (God won't cast anyone to hell for not preaching) but it has its own rewards. We're commanded to tithe. We're commanded to preach. We're commanded to give. We're commanded to study. All these are commandments. Our salvation does not depend on them but they have their own rewards for doing them.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ you were insisting on God's law nah so don't try to play smart law is law.

Jesus , the Apostles and Holy Spirit has spoken there is no tithing in the arrangement within the Christian congregation!

I've not said anything different from what I've been saying.

Acts 15 was a talk about things needed for salvation. Tithe is not one of those things needed for salvation.

MaxInDHouse:
The prophecy @ Micah 4:2; Isaiah 2:3 only came to fulfilment through the preaching and teaching of God's kingdom which Jesus' disciples began doing from the first century until now.
When it became an issue whether the Mosaic laws still applies in Christianity this is what the Apostles told everyone:

For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you! Act 15:28-29

According to the Apostles and God's Holy Spirit tithe is no longer part of Christian requirement!

The apostles wrote to let them know that circumcision is not necessarily for salvation. They were talking about the things that they needed to do to be saved which tithing is not among. Tithing is not salvific. It is commanded as an expression of love for God, not as a necessity for salvation.

MaxInDHouse:
Aliens and natives that are living within the borders of Israel nah!

That doesn't mean the laws God gave Israelites goes beyond the borders of Israel it's strictly for the Israelites and anyone living with them in that place!

Yes, it applies to anyone who joins himself to the God of Israel living within or outside Israel.

Micah 4:2
"Many nations will come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.' The law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."

Prophecy fulfilled.

Tithing is a command. Not necessarily a law.

MaxInDHouse:
Can you show me where the God of Israel said the laws He gave Israelites is for the whole world?

Leviticus 24:22:,

"You shall have one law for the alien and for the native; for I am the Lord your God."

MaxInDHouse:
Biblical command for Israelites or Christians?

Can you show me where the command said it was for a particular people alone?

MaxInDHouse:
Can you quote where Christians pay tithes in the New Testament?

Tithe is a biblical command. Can you quote where Christians are asked not to pay tithes in the new testament?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus never collected tithe from anyone when he walked the earth so when he became a spirit being the form of tithe the scriptures is talking about is not material things rather what Jesus commanded us to pay as his disciples is our time which we spend in the field ministry preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom! Matthew 10:11-13
That's what Jesus demanded from all his disciples and we are paying that to him directly as our High Priest!

Have you read Hebrews 7? Can you prove from Hebrews 7 that the tithe Jesus collects in heaven is your time spent in preaching?

The Bible says we should preach the Word and be instant in season and out of season. Does that look like preaching for 1 tenth of your time to you? Did the Disciples preach such doctrine? Did they preach for one tenth of their times only?

MaxInDHouse:
Your own personal opinion not written in the scriptures!
If Jesus cursed those collecting tithe {Matthew 23:23} never collected tithe and his disciples never talked about collecting tithe apart from spending their time in the field ministry which he takes most seriously then you are speaking for yourself not the scriptures!

First show us from the Scriptures where Christ cursed those collecting tithes.

Then, how do you expect Christ to collect tithe when He wasn't an earthly priest. There was an Aaronic priesthood in His earthly days who were collecting tithes. The Bibles says He needed not collect tithe because the Aaronic priesthood was still in force. But the Aaronic priesthood being done away and replaced with the Priesthood of Christ, Christ receives our tithes in heaven.

Don't tell me you didn't see the scriptures I quoted. Men that die revive tithes here but there He receives it of whom that is said He lives.

MaxInDHouse:
So how do you tithe PHYSICAL and MATERIAL to Jesus who is no longer a human?
PHYSICAL and MATERIAL tithe were given to humans {Hebrews 7:5-6} who needs it to survive {Nehemiah 13:10} so since Jesus never demanded tithing from anyone we can't relate with paying to humans, Jesus demanded we spend our time serving him in the field ministry preaching and teaching about God's Kingdom! Matthew 10:11-13

That's the only way we know that Christ could be paid because he is now a spirit king who doesn't need our material possessions so our own tithing in God's organization today is the preaching and teaching work that's why all JWs are zealous in this work spending our TIME!

Christ does not need our payments. He doesn't have to be paid. Tithes are given to men on earth but spiritually, Christ receives it in heaven according to the scriptures.

MaxInDHouse:
Please tell me the name of your church where you people give everything you own to the church!

Moreover if it's not tenth part then it's no longer TITHE but something else!

My friend, I didn't say we give everything we own to the church. The Bible never said we should give everything we own to the church.

We give our all. That's to say our souls, heart and our bodies. That's the demand for spirituality. We don't tithe spirituality. That's why the issue of tithing is not the tithing of spiritual things. The Bible commands us to tithe physical and material things only.

Even though tithing itself is a spiritual exercise.

Steep:
while tithing is still a spiritual principle valid till today, it is not a salvific issue.

Yeah, that's absolutely correct.

MaxInDHouse:
Of course we are paying our tithe to Christ our High Priest but it's not money or material things since our Melchizedek is a Spirit King we pay our tithe in a spiritual sense by preaching and teaching spending our time in the ministry which is tantamount to paying something valuable since time is money!

There's no spiritual tithe Max. We're told to give our all, not our tenth when it comes to spirituality.

StillDtruth:
Did The Law not already specify that the tithe.was for the humans? And Melchizedeck was not human yet he received Abraham's tithe.

The key is God Commanded it, but obedience/disobedience is in your hands to do.

Don't mind Max. This scripture below proves you're right.

The Bible says Christ continues to receive tithe in heaven.

Hebrews 7:8

"And here (earth) mortals who receive tithes, but there (heaven) He (Jesus) receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives." (NKJV)

Or in a more literal translation from the Hebrew:

"…and here mortal men receive tithes, but there (heaven) One (Jesus) receives them, of whom it is testified that He lives." (Hebrews 7:8, BLB)

Context:

Hebrews 7 discusses Melchizedek, a priest-king in Genesis 14:18-20, who received a tithe from Abraham. The author argues that Jesus Christ, as a priest in the order of Melchizedek (Psalm 110:4), receives tithes in heaven.

AntiChristian:
Chai! See stupidity mixed with foolishness and ignorance! God Promotes racism! Are Canaanites not God's creations too? Why bar Israel from such marriages?

This is still same stupidity I'm reiterating. The Northerners holds sway in Islamic matters because they have been Islamically civilized long before Nigeria gained independence! And Arabic is the language of our Prophet so we should relate with Allah in that language! Jesus didn't recite the Lord's prayer in English! It was not even in Greek. Jesus spoke Aramaic. Some people wrote the New Testament in Greek. So it is not racism to study and speak the language of the Prophet sent to you to communicate with your Lord! It is not racism! Racism is saying Israelites are the superior race and they should not marry Canaanites!


Which verses mentions that they are voluntary slaves? Jesus didn't have slaves but his father got virgin slaves from wars for him!

Abraham took Sarah's slave. Jacob took her wives' slaves! And plus number 31 slaves!

Hypocrisy! If na Islam now your belle go don burst!



Jesus did stop them from stoning an adulteress according to the law. Is that not changing the law? You are a hypocrite!
Yahweh don pack virgins for Number 31:40 and 16,000 people, including a tribute to the LORD of 32 virgins!

I am pleased with Allah as my Lord!
I am pleased with Muhammad as my messenger!
I am pleased with Islam as my way of Life!

Point of correction, the marriage issue was not because of racism. It was because those guys were idol worshippers. God didn't want Israel to marry them for two reasons:

1. They'll turn the hearts of their Israeli spouse to worship their idol. This happened to Solomon whose foreign wives made him worship their gods.

2. There's no way you'll worship idols and not be polluted by demons. God wanted the Israelites to be a demon- free breed. Marrying an idol worshipping spouse would defeat that purpose.

Here are the verses:


1 Kings 11:2

"The Lord had clearly instructed the people of Israel, 'Do not intermarry with them [foreigners], and they must not intermarry with you, for they will surely turn your hearts after their gods.' But Solomon loved them anyway."


Deuteronomy 7:3-4
"3. Do not intermarry with them [foreigners]. Do not give your daughter to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4. for they will turn your children away from following me to serve other gods, and the Lord’s anger will burn against you, destroying you quickly."

So, that instruction was not borne out of racism as you erroneously thought.

The day God opens your eyes, you'll see Islam for what it is. But for now, you're blinded with a dark veil and cannot see clearly, hence you want to keep following after a religion that was solely created by Satan to destroy your soul. You are even unable to see Mohammed for all the evils he represented.

I'm not here for unnecessary arguments. I just wanted to clarify that error which you probably already know. You Muslims would know the truth but would deliberately hide it to present falsehood. I would not be surprised if you knew already why God asked them not to marry foreigners but in order to deceive, you tagged it racism. This shows the kind of spirit inhabiting an average Muslim. You want to die a Muslim? Congratulations.

Gabrielshow24:
[b]
calling it fruit of death is also misleading God said tree of knowledge of good and evil not death but you don't need to lecture me. I understand what you intend to pass.

There are things in this world that are axioms or preferably absolutes they do not have a lower full and they can only whole.
Truth is one of them! There is no half-truth so also is immortality! Perfection! etc
There are varying forms of mortality!
At least we have those that lived 100years some 20 etc but you saying that something was made immortal contradicts your original statement; even now so your new write up has preferred to use "spirit of man" to buttress your immortality ideology!
Even that is subject to debate as it can be shown from Jesus saying "fear he that can kill the body and the soul" hence once again I stand with my point

"NOTHING INHERENT OF ITSELF IS IMMORTAL!"

"IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD THERE IS EVERLASTING LIFE!"

"ANYTHING NOT JOINED TO GOD IS NOT IMMORTAL"
[/b]

God is life eternal(immortality) he created man in his own image to partake of his spirit as long as men partake of this they are eternal(and do not die which we can see from genesis that they lived in the garden for an undisclosed amount of years and which is also confirmed in revelation) but when they left did they live forever? Nope

Even the spirits you mentioned are awaiting judgement and those that are with God will live and the rest death!
Which means the spirit of man you made mention of is not immortal of its own nature

Have we been discussing science here that you're asking me for empirical proof without the spiritual side of things? Is it not the spiritual we've been discussing! Does science believe that man has a spirit or soul? This is an unnecessary question and you know it.

I know you would capitalize on the term fruit of death. Meanwhile I've said in a previous post that I'm only using the term for short. So, what's misleading about that when I already had a caveat for that?

Man is essentially a spirit. I'm not using spirit of man to buttress my point about immortality but to tell you who the real man is. Man is a spirit and the spirit of man had the predominance in the beginning. It was disobedience that pushed man's spirit to the backstage while the flesh gained ascendancy over the spirit.

Now, to open your understanding , you would agree that God is Spirit. Isn't it? Does God relate with flesh? No. Even now, we do not relate with God with our flesh but with our spirit. Agreed? Every true Christian knows that. Now, God related physically with Adam and Eve before they fell. Do you think God was relating with carnal beings? No. God is Spirit and therefore relates with spirits only. Adam was a spiritual man whose spirit reigned over his flesh. Hence he was immortal because his flesh was subject to his spirit and therefore could not grow old, useless and die. The flesh dies because it is corrupted. When Christ returns, He'll restore our incorruptible body and we shall live forever.

It shouldn't be hard for you to realize that man was created immortal if you can read between the lines of the Word of God. Why should God create man mortal when He essentially wanted him to be immortal? Answer the 8 question I asked you sincerely and you would uncover the truth. The truth of God's word is not on the surface. These are the deep things of the depth of God's Word.

God didn't create man that dies. Men reinvented themselves through sin.

God saw that all He created was very good. All things were very good in the beginning. Is death good in your estimate for it to have been part of man? Would God look at death in the man He has created and say "Behold, it is very good."?

Don't you know that death is a punishment for sin? "To dust shalt thou return " was a curse that came as a wage of sin. God never programmed man to return to dust in the beginning. Death is a curse for unrighteousness.

Read and meditate on the following scripture. Let the Holy Ghost illuminate you:

Romans 5:17
"For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!"

If Righteousness had persisted with Adam, death wouldn't reign. Righteousness breeds life upon life. Sin brings death.

The wages of sin is death (physical and spiritual). Through the trespass of one man, death reigned. It was not reigning until the trespass came!

May the eyes of your understanding be enlightened in Jesus name.

Gabrielshow24:
It shows you focus on the superficial!
I said "inherent of it self, is it immortal"!
You saying Man is immortal is oversimplification.

Everyone knows that vessels of the Temple are used in the temple and as along as they within the temple they are sacred!

I think you don't understand the consequences of your statement.
You saying something was created immortal then it should stay immortal irrespective but this not true of man

And I have never seen where people call temporary marker permanent!
if indeed the ink was permanent within the temporary then after exposure to cleaning it would not be subject to removal!
but the permanent even though you try to clean it still persists!
That's the point!!!

From all your statements, you make me believe you're trying to hide from the truth. You already know it.

I have asked you 8 questions to which you provided no answer. You only talked. The talks didn't address the questions at all. But at least, the questions did a lot of work on your initial thinking. What you previously called folly is now called oversimplification. That's a paradigm shift, and I'm happy about that.

When you understand that man's body is suitable for life on earth only, you would understand the depth of man's immortality. All men who have died are actually still alive in another world. If man dies, then he should cease existing completely but why can't man completely cease to exist? Because he cannot. He was not created to.

Anything that would live on earth would need earthly bodies. Satan is alive today but he moves about as an invisible spirit because he doesn't have an earthly body to live on earth. Hence, he remains a spirit. If Satan can have an earthly body, he'll be very glad to live physically on earth. Do demos not possess people in order to use their bodies for expressions?

To clearly understand what I'm saying. Man only sheds off the earthly body at death. He's still alive but can no longer dwell on earth. He dwells elsewhere. Hence, there's immortality in man. However, because of the fall, he can no longer practice his immortality on earth, he practices it elsewhere. He just puts off the mortal body and moves elsewhere to live.

God didn't create man to shed off his earthly body. God wanted man to live forever as we can see from all indications, and because God has the power to create him so, He did that exactly.

Death is a curse perpetuated by a spirit called the spirit of death. It only operates on this earthly plane.

The forbidden fruit converted terrestrial immortality to mortality. That's the death God warned Adam of.

It is a fallacy to say that if they're created terrestrially immortal they must remain immortal no matter what happens.

That logic is defeated by the opposite of that statement - by that statement, we can also say "If they're created terrestrially mortal, they must remain mortal no matter what happens". If that's the case, why did God stop them from eating the fruit of life? Because He doesn't want them to eat and live forever. That means by eating the fruit of life, they would not remain mortal. And using your logic, they're not created mortal. If they were mortal, then eating the forbidden fruit should not alter their mortality. No matter what happens, they should remain mortal.

Can you now see the flaw in that reasoning?

Summarized:

If they were created immortal, they must remain immortal no matter what happens. This translates to, 'if they were created mortal, they must remain mortal no matter what happens.' But by eating the fruit of life, they won't remain mortal. Hence, they were not created mortal, otherwise they would remain mortal even if they ate the fruit of life. Just as you expected them to remain immortal if they were created immortal even though they ate the fruit of death.

Gabrielshow24:
If you had truly taking them into accounts then you would have made room for those exceptions which you did not!

You are fond of making "absolute statements"
blandly without proper thought!

My problem is regarding the little ones those without proper understanding will be mislead by this!!!

"IT WAS AFTER YOU ADDED; IT IS POSSIBLE FOR A RULER IN A PLACE TO NOT BE OF THE SAME VALUE AS A SERVANT IN ANOTHER PLACE"

When your initial statement was absolute and comprehensive
"ANGELS ARE SERVANTS IN HEAVEN, MAN IS A RULER IN HEAVEN "

hope this shows the errors in your ways!
And you rectify it before you mislead others with this type of statements. Let your statement be clear

Jesus when asked said " Give unto caesar what belongs to caesar and unto God what belongs to God"!

Okay, I'll see to that in the future.

I can't make absolute statements saying man has authority or rulership over angels because the Bible never said so. I was only concerned about what God said about man versus what God said about angels and using it to draw inferences that God has placed man in a very high place in His reckoning. Whether man would rule over angels or angels would rule over men or that both would be of equal ranks in heaven was not my focus. I was not talking in terms of superiority or inferiority. Just declaring the Word about man and angels as the are in the Scriptures.

[quote author=Gabrielshow24 post=132005330][/quote]Lol.

How did you know my statement didn't take this into account?

Did I directly say men are superior to angels in heaven? Why didn't I say that directly if I didn't put such a sensitive implication as this into account? Was that not your own private interpretation?

Gabrielshow24:
If you read my exegesis on this topic you would have noted my analogy: The U.S. Air force created warplanes to be flown but whether they are flown constantly it's another matter and no plane flies without fuel hence as long there is fuel to power it theoretically it can fly forever but of it's own inherent nature can it fly forever?
Nope!!!!

That's my point

Your oversimplification is very misleading

Saying Man is created immortal when the obvious contrary is visible!

Something that is created immortal should still stay immortal!

If you had rather said that man was created for the purpose of immortality in the presence of God that's better; which is confirmed in the scripture by the existence of death when man deviates from the Lord!

Go and study!
You don't have proper understanding

Thus your mental gymnastic cannot work on me okay?

By your US plane analogy, you are admitting that man was actually created immortal but that immortality was dependent on his fellowship with God. You're now telling me that I oversimplified things. Meanwhile you denied the immortality of man and highly berated me for it.

So,you now know that man was actually immortal but pride would not allow you admit your errors. In your arrogance you keep insulting and calling names that were actually more befitting for yourself.

I have asked you 5 questions that you couldn't answer because you saw how each question makes you look. Now, this question about immortality in relation to fellowship is being answered using mental gymnastics as a result of pride and insincerity.

3 More questions for you.

If God's Presence gives life to man, and God keeps visiting man, it means God does not want man to die. This is further accentuated by the tree of life which Good additionally gave man as food in the garden. Clearly, God does not want man to die!

Question:

1. If God does not want man to die, why did he create him a dying man according to your logic? Or do you think God really wants a dying man and yet kept visiting him and also gave him a tree of life?

2. If God created the man a dying man even though He wanted him to live forever, does that not mean that God created him so because God had no power to make him an eternal being? It means though God wanted an eternal man but since He had no power to create an eternal man, He had to create a dying man. Is that not your logic?

3. If God has the power to create an immortal man, and He decided to create a dying man, of what benefit would the death of that man be to God to have created him so? Please tell me why God would create a man to die when He has the power to create an eternal man? Why exactly did God put death in the man while He was creating the man?

It seems you don't even understand that death is a spirit. There's a spirit called the spirit of death which found its way into man through the fruit that man ate in disobedience.

Please answer my 3 questions above if you can.

[quote author=Gabrielshow24 post=132005037][/quote]If you think my statement implied what I didn't say, you're responsible for your own interpretation.

Yorubas will be rulers, Igbos would be servant would mean different things to many people. A ruler of a people can still be inferior to the servants of a high King.

I was not talking about inferiority or superiority. My emphasis was on roles. Just to make you see the value God placed on man. You're the one who turned it to a superiority matter.

Gabrielshow24:
[b]Every Nigerian man is a scum! 🤔 Will hold true by this analogy. Nobody uses everything if indeed there were exceptions that's why there is "Most", "many" and " alot". You had to your problems and show the world you don't know logic at all!

Someone saying "he doesn't have a criminal record" but when a (SINGLE) case is brought up. His statement becomes invalid !

THAT'S WHY I KEEP SAYING YOUR CHOICE OF WORDS IS MISLEADING!
I UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT BUT SOMEONE NOT OF HIGHER UNDERSTANDING WILL BE EASILY MISLEAD HOW HARD IS THAT?

You said man doesn't die? When he departs from this world what is it called? I understand that temporal death isn't permanent death that's very easy but for the sake of the little ones this is very misleading course in fact your statement corroborates with Muhammad's remark of Jesus didn't die!
Which negates the spiritual emphasis on the life, death and resurrection of Jesus?

I said this earlier how is this hard for you to understand?
[/b]

It's either you didn't go to school or your education was a waste. If every Nigerian man is a scum, then, you're a scum. Interestingly I'm not really Nigerian. I'll agree you are a scum!

That statement was an Hyperbole! It does not mean everything in reality but for emphasis only.

Gabrielshow24:
The picture begs to differ!
I can see you are filled with folly.

When it soothes you; you remember context!
But in the things you ought to use context you don't use it!

Okay, I never remembered I use the words. But that is in the context of what God says about men and angels in heaven. The Bible depicts angels as servants while depicting men as sitting on thrones. I do not say that men would rule over angels while angels would be serving men. I never drew that inference. Just telling the place where God put both men and angels in heaven.

Do not think that I do not know how to abuse too. If you think you have the monopoly of abusing people, calling them foolish, stupid and again telling me "you're filled with folly", I'll deal with you accordingly from henceforth.

If you present yourself as a human, you be treated as one. If you believe like a goat, you'll be treated like a goat.

Gabrielshow24:
Don't you know that you pointing out here "except probably the serpent's symbolism" defeats your initial statement: "Everything in Genesis is literal"

Do you want to hang on that? That's language for you. It doesn't defeat my earlier statement because it isn't out of order to call the overwhelming percentage of a thing "Everything".

I don't think you know logic at all.
A simple contradiction defeats the existentialism or correctness of a statement.

You've contradicted yourself many times. I didn't berate you for that, did I? What exactly are you all about trying to see this discussion as a fight? Please be mature.

You pointing out again that Christ died:
Defeats your statement that "Man doesn't die"

What's your problem?
Is it your choice of words or what?

That's because you don't understand the language I spoke.

What is death? A translation. Is a translation death? No.

When I'm said Christ died, I meant He translated. Then, I showed you where He translated to.

Your understanding of death is messing up your whole theology. Once you realize that death is a mere translation and not an annihilation, you would then understand my language.

Going to the issue at hand Genesis 1 explains that God created heaven and Earth in seven days, Genesis 2 adds "that God caused a mist to water the ground because man was not yet created to till the ground" just from these two chapters you can easily see that whatsoever that transpires in 1 was not a physical creation and it is the generally accepted interpretation that chapter 1 represents the spiritual creation of all things and chapter 2 starts with the physical processes involved!

So, God created a spiritual world in Genesis according to your mumbo jumbo? And how does a mist watering the ground mean that man was not yet created to till the ground? When Genesis said God put the man in the garden to dress and till it. Are you saying that the mist was tilling the ground for man? Please who am I debating with? I'll like to know.

🤔Study more and be enlightened

Please take your own advice. Calm down and learn from others. You need it.

Gabrielshow24:
I just saw this I am pretty disappointed!

Where in the U.S do they uphold penal substitution punishment?

Would you refer me to where I said it happens in the USA? Your penchant for misinterpretation and misrepresentation is too annoying.

I only asked you to bring proof that no one can decide to take the place of another in judgement in the US.

And when you wanted to cite an example you are citing life for life by Evangel films( a movie)

Yes because it duplicated exactly the substitute role Jesus played for us. Did the Bible not call Jesus our substitute?

My God that example was to bring out a flaw in your thought process that an high intellectual can likewise say that based on moral and ethical judgements you cannot die for my sins and as an induction likewise say Jesus didn't die for any one's sins

I know, like I said in that write up you quoted that Jesus died for my sin and absolved me of it!

You just make statements as if you are presenting them to low IQ personalities.

Your analogies tend to have slight incoherence.

You're the one who fail to easily grasp what I say or perhaps it is a deliberate attempt to obscure the truth.

In law, there's what is called Substitutionary punishment. Go and find out about that. It happens when someone decides to take the place of another who is to be sentenced.

1Peter 3:18

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God."

I have shown you previously that Christ did it voluntarily. It is permissable in law, though very rare. Man cannot pay for his sins, so Jesus gave Himself for us. If man can pay for his sins, Jesus wouldn't need to do so. It's God's prerogative of mercy to allow Jesus take our place so that we can escape unavoidable eternal damnation. The human race was doomed for lack of inability. Jesus voluntarily came to our rescue.

If you still don't understand what I've said, I do not know he else I can explain it. This is the whole Scripture.

Gabrielshow24:
Is the answer not in the write up?
They were separated from God! And separation brings death, blindness, sickness etc

Even now so, God has healed many of incurable diseases after believing in him to confirm and to show that these things(diseases) do not hold in God.

But as regards death, a few have escaped death, and in the bible it was shown that they escaped death through fellowship with God. The bible records of Enoch; He walked with and was not and Elijah being whisked away on a chariot of fire!

Now whether most men have attained(will attain) the level of fellowship that will make God take them Alive is another matter?

How you have so forgotten of the disciple(John) that others thought would not die? Because Jesus said if he(Jesus) wills he could make him stay till the end of the world. Emphasis on "If he wills"

In the same vein when Jesus was on earth when he was a carpenter; he ate in the brow of his sweat! It didn't diminish what was said in Genesis

The idea is not of the temporal life but of the eternal life that comes with fellowship with God!

I think my next phrase implied that death was real "through the remark of half-truth".

My dear, stop being confused as far as this discussion is concerned.

My stand about man's immortality has been on the pre-separation period of man. Who doesn't know that man invited death after separation from God

I said God created man to be immortal. Please own up to what you said. You refuted that claim further shot yourself in the foot by saying God's fellowship with man was the reason why man had eternal life. How then does man die? Assuming man didn't separate from God, would he still die even with God fellowshiping with him?

You've seen the error in your posts but you are refusing to admit it.

Gabrielshow24:
Bring it out where I ever said God and man cannot marry!


Why with these lies?
You said in Heaven man will be rulers; angels will be servants!

Why expose your own folly?

You said it man. Readers can actually see that. I don't have time to rummage through posts now.

I didn't say in heaven man will be rulers, angels will be servants. I've not even talked anything about roles or positions. You're the one misinterpreting.

I said Angels are servants by their creation. Meanwhile men have been promised thrones. I didn't draw any conclusion about men ruling and angels serving men, or men ruling over angels. I just stated what the Bible says. I never drew conclusions. Both statements were made separately for different contexts.

Gabrielshow24:
At this point it's becoming tiring going over and over simple things that are not hard at all!
Who doesn't know that Man cannot survive without Oxygen? As long as you breathe in oxygen(all things being equal) you will live! But the simple lack/depletion of it and your body reacts. This brings about a codependent system between Man and oxygen(exaggerated). As long as man is where there is Oxygen he hath life which is buttressed in the bible passage "you have life in me"

Simple wisdom makes you to see that as long as God is with Man he hath life which is evidenced in Revelation; of God living, walking amidst us without the need of a Sun etc. instead our dependence is now on God as the sustainer of our lives and as the source of light!

No from the bolded which you said above. If man has life as long as God was with him as it was in the beginning, what would now bring the man death if God continues to be with him ?

I really need this answer with urgency since you said man was not immortal.

Which was what it should have been from the beginning of the World - Submission unto God!
And scriptures says "as many as are led of God are called the sons of God"

The knowledge brought death as a metaphor! As evidenced by the serpent "saying you won't really die" but this is also a snide remark aimed to cloud and present an half-truth(lie) before them- as it is well document that the absence of life is simply put death

Like I said in my previous write-ups.
It was a trade off between gaining physical enlightenment and losing divine inspiration!
From God's perspective that is death because you are not in his abode and not dependent on his light to see.

That's why Jesus could boldly say "let the dead bury the dead" and "blind man leading a blind man will both fall into a ditch"

Death is not a metaphor. It is real. It is in the world today. God didn't mean instant death. The tree of knowledge of good and evil was not snipper. It terminated life. It took away the capacity of man to be immortal. Christ has come to restore that which we lost.

Please answer the question I asked you in section 1 as related to the bolded part of your statement.