₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
It's obvious you don't have anything further to say other than quoting third parties. Just forget about such prayers because it'll never ever work in my case that's why your friends claiming JW PIMO can't go elsewhere.

Is that your wife in the picture?

MightySparrow:
maximumSide,a JW, does not see things the way you see them. Any JW members are conceited and as he has always claimed: JWs are the only group doing the will of God. In his heart of heart, he does not regard you or wherever you worship as anything.
As you rightly pointed out, no denomination is perfect. Yet, JWs witnesses will agree that they are the only imperfect - perfect people. In their Armageddon, you are doomed as all JWs will be saved by default.

So, Sir, don't deceive yourself that maximumSide is reasoning with you.

maximumSide himself is maximally deluded.

I just pray he listens.

Boomark:
FxMasterz
So after more than 23 years as a pastor, you could not provide even a single scripture to defend what you are practicing. It is very obvious that you are practicing man-made doctrine.

You brought in irrelevant letter of endorsement just to deceive people and now you are asking me to show where you said it is a requirement to become an evangelist. How does it concern to the question I asked you in first place. Have you seen that you are the one that has a terrible comprehension problem.

We have yahoo pastors and those who are into church business who also have certificates. You also have certificate and cannot provide a single scripture to defend what you practice. So certificate is what differentiates charlatan evangelist and non charlatan evangelist? As in, certificate is what determines who is fake and who really called by God? This is my number 1 question below and you have failed to provide any scripture to defend yourself.



These above were your response to my questions.

Question:

4. 1. So if certificate is not needed for me to become an evangelist, why then did you start insulting me, telling me to bring my certificate and calling me a liar when I said I am an evangelist and I don't have certificate? See picture 1 as evidence below.

5. 2. So if I don't need ordination by human beings to become an evangelist, why then did you ask me if i ordained myself? Who is my father, where was I ordained? and that I need to be ordained? Why did you raise such irrelevant thing when it can't make me BECOME an evangelist? See picture 2 as evidence.

5.3. Question 3 above does not require me to show you anything. You don't understand english or you want to mischievously dodge the question. Just answer YES or NO.

I have presented 4 picture evidence and you pretended not to see them. I will soon call on people to check if what I typed is not in the picture or that you are just mischievously lying.

Stick to the question on evangelist and don't bring in any Quora or JW stuff here to divert attention or draw sympathy from people. I will create a separate thread for that and you must answer my questions there.

You as over 23 years former winners chapel certificate pastor cannot provide a single scripture to defend yourself and you you looking escape route.

I don't think you love to hear the truth.

No need to talk too much again. I've made my points and reasonable people have observed that you are not a lover of truth.

Are you unable to provide or quote any statement of mine that says you must have an ordination certificate to BECOME evangelist? You can't have any scripture from me to prove something I never said, okay? I didn't see anywhere in those pictures of yours where I said a man must be humanly ordained and given a certificate before he can BECOME an evangelist. Quote it out or better still, underline the statement in your screenshot.

Can you confirm that I told you that there are two ordinations, a spiritual and a physical? Can you confirm that I told you that the physical Ordination is an attestation to your spiritual Ordination by a spiritual father or church that helps us verify you?

Can you confirm that I constantly asked you for evidence of you being an evangelist? This question was necessary because of your bad character and attitude.

Look, if you keep shouting that you are an evangelist, we would ask you to produce your ordination certificate for verification. Even the Lord Jesus was asked "By what authority do you do these things?".

Hey! Which church ordained you? Who is your spiritual father? What do you preach? What article of faith do you believe in? Why must we accept you as an evangelist?

Do you have any answers to the above questions? You want us to take you as an evangelist with your lying attitude, online hooliganism and demonic boasting? No, we need to verify you to know where you came out from and to establish that you're truly an evangelist, not a breakaway rebellious kid who ran away from his church to make himself a yahoo evangelist.

Wilgrea7:
I never claimed it could be.. I'll add a bit to your last statement.

The complexity and apparent design we see in nature aren't easily explained by random chance or natural processes, or a super-mind alone.



The puddle in the pothole.

On a serious note. Taking away the anthropogenic view of things, I fail to see how there's something "more deliberate" at play here. The whole idea of deliberateness or randomness are not ideas I subscribe to in respect to the universe.

If you're asking why things exist the way they do (purpose, complexity), stopping at the "fine-tuning" of the constants is barely the start.

What is a constant? Why should one exist in the first place? Why not more? Why not less? Why anything at all? What exactly is "life"? What exactly is a mind?

When you ask these questions, you realize pointing to some "deliberate super mind" just doesn't cut it. Because even said mind would need to be defined by something.. and the chain goes further.



I never said it was off the table. As an atheist, I've just not seen any probable reason or evidence to consider the said mind as the reason for things being the way they are.



I appreciate the last statement. You're 100% right. An emergent mind can still make things. Humans are an example. But in respect to that, I'll have to repeat my point above.

I'm not saying a super mind is off the table.. I've just not seen any reasonable evidence or reason why it's the case.



I have to disagree with the unified goal you seem to have perceived in the case of the earth.

I'm also beginning to think we might mean different things when we talk of purpose and direction.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "goes beyond purely naturalistic explanations"

You seem to draw this distinction between what the natural world is supposed to be, and what a deeper reality is supposed to be.

Is there a particular reason for that?

I get where you're coming from with your skepticism about a "super mind" or a deliberate creator, but I think we might be overlooking just how intricate and purposeful the natural world really is. When you look at how everything fits together- the relationships in ecosystems, the fine-tuning of physical constants, and the way complex life forms emerge - it all seems too deliberate to be just a product of random chance. Are you getting it?

Sure, we don't fully understand the mind or intelligence yet, but I think we're catching a glimpse of something deeper - a fundamental principle or reality that connects both the mind and the natural world.

You're absolutely right that we shouldn't just slap human-like intelligence or intentions onto this idea, but I do think there's a kind of direction and purpose built into reality. It’s like there's more to the story than what we can explain with physical laws alone. This sense of purpose points to something bigger, something that can’t be boiled down to just natural processes.

I’m not trying to introduce some unproven concept or complicate things further. I'm just recognizing that the natural world seems to have a direction and purpose that’s hard to ignore. It’s not just about intelligence or the mind; it’s about the purpose we can observe all around us.

Think of it like a beautifully composed piece of music. Every instrument plays its part, and together they create something stunning and complex. I think the natural world is a lot like that - a harmonious and purposeful whole that’s worth exploring and understanding even more deeply. The harmony of the entire complex systems that make life livable can never be accidental or explained through natural processes or selection. Whatever the source of this complex harmonious systems are, I choose to call it a mind for want of language. However, this is an evidence of a deliberate action to achieve a unified goal. Except this complex things can be confirmed to have a mind of their own, there's no way they could work together harmoniously to fulfil the purpose of sustaining life on earth.

In conclusion, you should remember that this subject is not just about constants or fine-tuning alone. There were a whole lot of itemized complexities in the universe explained in the OP by building a foundation from the structure of the eye. All work together to bring us into the suspicion of the presence of a super mind. (I choose to call it a Super Mind because only a mind can establish a purpose - you're free to disprove this. And it is a Super Mind because comparatively, none of us will ever be able to build such things in terms of size and complexities no matter what science becomes even in a million years. The Mind that builds such things with such intentionality and purpose can only be Super in comparison to ours). We're not dwelling just on constants or fine-tuning to arrive at this conclusion. Singling out one aspect of the whole analysis to counter the argument does not do any justice to the debate.

achorladey:


He simply can't help it. The reason is simply because when he creates a bad publicity about his religious organization he will come back and look for every means to erase it when exposed.

As long as the intent is to protect an organization rather than to defend one's soul, any human would do the same. The organization is more important to him than his soul.

achorladey:
So when I, say he is a liar, manipulator and lacks integrity, I have evidence for it all.

Absolutely correct.

achorladey:
See the madness and insanities peddling brains





What follows......




He is back again to question those he does not know their faith as a liar and manipulator that he is.


Fxmasterz

The guy is a character. I am really tired of reading from him. I just pray he finds his bearing before it is too late.

achorladey:
Do you think that one can keep to his words?

His fingers always itch him whenever he sees lies and manipulations of his brains exposed. The next thing will be to look for means to cover up and deny.

Lol.

This is the second time he will be breaking his promise in less than 10 days of making the promise.

Wilgrea7:
The very idea of a preconceived intention to execute something purpose demotes the very intelligence you're trying to avoid focusing on.

My issue with the idea is that it tries to define things based on a human perception of the natural world.

It's something I intend to go more into detail in a subsequent post.

The effects would be different.. because the conditions would be different.

I don't want to use the "puddle fits the pothole" analogy here because we are not outside observers of the puddle and the pothole. We ARE the puddle.

And nonetheless, even if we allude this to the unproven "mind", the question still shifts further.



I'm sorry but I don't agree with the idea that a "super mind" must have been involved in this. Again, very anthropogenic.

The very idea of a mind itself is something that relies on the seemingly "deliberateness" of certain parameters or conditions to be able to exist. And what then set or determined those parameters? Why would any of the parameters exist at all, and in the way they do?

This is why I said you only push the question higher. An unproven super-mind don't answer the question.

While it might seem that the idea of a "super mind" is just a human construct, there's still a compelling argument to be made. The complexity and apparent design we see in nature aren't easily explained by random chance or natural processes alone. The way everything fits together; the fine-tuning of physical constants; the emergence of life; and the intricate relationships within ecosystems - suggests that there's something more deliberate at play.

You bring up a good point about the mind needing certain conditions to exist. But this doesn't mean that the idea of a mind or purpose is off the table. Instead, it might indicate that there's a deeper, unifying principle or reality that connects both the mind and the natural world. Also, the mind needing certain conditions to exist does not mean that the mind cannot be the source of purposeful designs which is the fulcrum around which this argument rotates.

When people argue for Creationism or intelligent design, it's not necessarily about imagining a human-like intelligence behind it all. It's more about acknowledging that the complexity and purpose we see in the world seem to go beyond what random chance or necessity could explain. There seems to be a sense of direction or purpose built into reality, where things appear to be moving towards certain goals. We can clearly see that these complex elements deliver intended deliverables. All working together towards a unified goal - the sustenance of life on earth.

Recognizing this isn't just about shifting the question to a higher level or bringing in an unproven entity. It's about seeing that the natural world shows a profound sense of purpose that we can't fully explain with our current understanding of physical laws.

So, the discussion isn't just about the nature of mind or intelligence. It's about the inherent sense of purpose and direction we observe in the world, suggesting that there might be a deeper reality or principle at work—one that goes beyond purely naturalistic explanations.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ you're just a bloody LIAR.

If you want to be sincere to your own soul you will listen to both sides carefully and ask both sides questions.

A real intellectual will not take matters the way you're doing because neither the JWs nor Ex-jws is presently worshiping with you in your Winner Chapel Oyedepo Church.

So thought provoking questions will reveal the sincerity of those on both sides not just sitting in one corner questioning one side furiously as if they owe you explanations for their faith.

You mentioned again?

I do not attend Winners Chapel. Please be corrected.

See, I do not go by conventional Christianity myself. I have studied wide to discover that the Roman Catholics delivered a lot of falsehoods to us. In an attempt to discover what the real truth is, studies were made by many groups, certain truths were established and this led to denominations. Each denomination was founded by groups that believed in the same truths they discovered. Truths are still being discovered as we speak, and there are still many breakouts as a result.

I have questioned many things in my own Christian journey. I have visited Roman Catholic, JW, Anglican Methodist White Garment and eventually settled for Pentecostalism because that's where the Gospel is practically demonstrated. Pentecostalism keeps updating because they're very flexible and open to learning new things as are being thought by the Holy Ghost. That does not mean there are no charlatans among them as there are in all denominations and groups.

So, my argument or conclusions are not one sided as you suppose. Except you have had varied experiences as I, you probably would never understand the errors you hold on to.

As I said earlier, I'm not the conventional Christian. I'm Pentecostal but I can admit that Pentecostalism is not perfect. No denomination is perfect. No organization is perfect. The Roman Catholics bastardized Christianity before the Reformation. The Reformation has not stopped. God is still reforming the Church. That is why we need to keep following God bumper to bumper so as to keep ourselves updated regarding what God is doing right now. Many organizations are dwelling on what God has done yesterday. God has moved on, and they were left behind because they were myopic.

I keep studying the scriptures for myself without being carried away by the rules or doctrines of Pentecostalism. God deals with people individually and not as a group. That's why I just laugh at your ignorance when you always ask for a church. You seem to believe that truth can only be found in a church. A church is governed physically by individuals who claim to receive from God. They are mere men. There's nothing special about them. They're just the usual human beings like you with the same weaknesses and needs. But the truth is that God gives revelation and light to all His children. All you need is to open your heart directly to keep receiving what God is saying. Any son that cannot reserve directly from his father is a bastard. You agree with me? If someone must always tell you what your father wants you to do, is that not a bastard to whom the father will never speak directly? Everyone child of God can receive from God. There's no one anywhere who has that monopoly. Anybody claiming the monopoly of receiving from God on behalf of others is a deceiver.

Even when truth is supposedly delivered to you, sieve it through the lenses of God's word. The mighty falls. If you think that the mighty is infallible, you'll fall with him when he falls. There's no one on earth who cannot at anytime fall into errors. That's why you need to check what you hear and read before believing it totally in your heart. It doesn't matter who is speaking or writing. All teachings must align with the word of God. Otherwise, you'll have yourself to blame when you stand before the Almighty God all alone to account for the life you lived on earth. Even the so-called custodians of truth would not be there for you on that day. Everyman to himself. And hey! No one would be held responsible for your errors in believing in wrong doctrines and falsehoods. Even the peddler of false doctrines would not be held responsible for misleading you. You're responsible for yourself and for yourself alone. Therefore, shine your eyes.

Boomark:
Whatever any human thinks useless because they are not the ones that will admit people into the kingdom of God that will reside with people here on earth.

And ganging up against such people jwith lies just because of what they think is just preparing yourself for the lake of fire.

Don't be confused. The things I wrote are true because...

I am Boomark of God.

Have you been to a JW kingdom Hall before? What do you even know? I was there in 2005 when I thought they were real Christians. My eyes started opening from there.

If you have not personally verified a thing, you have no right to call those who have tasted it liars. What personal experience do you have with a kingdom Hall? Ex members are exposing them worldwide. There are many court cases against the organization in many countries of the world. Have you heard how the GBs scammed the government of Norway? The money that government gave to the group to be shared to poor members of the group in Norway was never shared. The organization was banned in Norway because of that.

You're just inexperienced and overzealous for something you know absolutely nothing about. That's not good.

Janosky:
Courz GIBBERISH & IBERIBEISM dey console you.

Courz disciple, Oga bring your own proof.

OR:
Carry your MUMU komot from here.

My proof is there on the same thread. Go take a look.

Janosky:
If you get liver,do it .
I promise you,your IBERIBEISM must explode on this forum.[/b]

Courz has a full thread dedicated to that on this forum. Your manipulation of scriptures was extensively reviewed and exposed on the thread.

Boomark:
Have you seen how you tell lies and spread false doctrine? Is it letter of endorsement from Paul that made Timothy, Titus, and co, the pastor, evangelist, prophet, teacher that they became on the day God chose them? Letter of endorsement for those sent on a missionary work by Paul didn't make them evangelists. So this lie has failed and didn't answer my question.

Now show me where I said letter of endorsement made anybody an evangelist or pastor? Just prove it now. People on this platform who are reading would have known by now that you do not love the truth. You're a lover of lies.

I have shown you that there's both spiritual ordination and physical ordination. The latter follows the former and is often followed by a certificate so as to ward off Charlatans. I do not know whether comprehension is your issue or you just love to be deceptive. These are the things I already told you on the other thread before you created a dedicated thread on the same issue. This would be the third time I'll be telling you this. Or do I still have the need to start teaching you what spiritual Ordination is?

It is scripturally right for me to ask you for your certificate because I don't know you, hence you cannot expect me to believe you're an evangelist just because you're shouting. Any armed robber out there can call himself an evangelist, a pastor, or whatever. We would then use his certificate to see if we can trust him. The letters of endorsement endeared the first century ministers of the Gospel to the brethren of the time. If you shout in public that you're an evangelist, you must show your certificate of ordination as proof. If you're shouting among those who already know you, you might not need to present any proof.

See evidence in the picture where I told you that my Lord Jesus Christ didn't have certificate and non of the apostles had certificate to become evangelists, pastors, and prophets. You kept on calling me a liar, asking me if I ordained myself, that I must have a certificate given to me during ordination, that I must be ordained by a spiritual father, leader or mentor else I am just a fake evangelist trying to deceive people. All these are in the pictures.

So you have more questions to answer.

Any witch, cultist, Yahoo boy, kidnapper can say the same things you just said up there. It is only your certificate that would prove you were ordained by a genuine man of God and can therefore be trusted.

Human ordination is just an acknowledgement of the spiritual ordination. It means that the church can confirms that indeed you are an evangelist and should be seen as one wherever you appear.

[b]Question

1. Show me just one person in the bible that needed certificate to become an evangelist?

Show me any sentence I made in which I said a person needs to earn a certificate to BECOME an evangelist.

2. Show us from the scripture where it is required that a spiritual father or mentor needs to ordain someone before they become an evangelist or prophet?

Show me any sentence I made in which I said a spiritual father or mentor must ordain you before you can BECOME an evangelist.

3. Does the absence of human ordination nullify the gift of God on people who he made evangelist, pastors, prophets and teachers?

Show me where I said the absence of ordination nullifies the gift of God. The question is irrelevant because it does not tally whatsoever with what I have discussed so far with you regarding this matter.

For clarity, let me tell you again the relevance of physical ordination.

Physical Ordination is the recognition of the calling of God upon you by a representative of the Body of Christ (a spiritual father, mentor or leader) who lays hands on you and pours oil upon your head as a confirmation of the calling of God upon your life.

As I have said before, I say again, without an ordination and a certificate of ordination from a church or leader, it is difficult for anyone to accept you as a true servant of Jesus Christ.

This is the same problem TB Joshua had. He had no spiritual father. His spiritual father was unknown. No one knows who ordained him. Nobody knows how he became a pastor. This is one of the reasons most men of God in Nigeria didn't associate with him. He tried to Join PFN but was rejected especially when they asked him all these questions regarding his Ordination. The final straw that broke the camel's back was when he said he was born again from his mother's womb.

It is fitting that I ask you for your Ordination certificate because you cannot prove yourself as an evangelist by merely shouting that you are one.

Please use scriptures to defend yourself. And number your answers accordingly. The more evidence you need the more questions I ask.[/b]

B. O. G. I will write my full name very soon.

If you can provide evidence that I made all those statements you attributed to me, I'll provide you scriptures.

Yes, I did call you a fake evangelist, not because you don't have a certificate but because you proved to be one by your utterances. Even saying "You're a pastor, that's why you're wicked and heartless." - I can't remember what you said word for word but it is very close to this statement. No true evangelist talks like that. No true evangelist sees evidence and still calls the bringer of evidence a liar (a case in reference is the Quora evidence of JW scripting which you ignored and even came here to misrepresent). Also, no true evangelist would try to manipulate the words of another person as you have done on this thread. By attributing what I didn't say to me, and demanding that I provide scriptures for positions I never made, you further confirm my fears about you. Your boastful attitude is another thing. Boastfulness is a demonic character that should not be found in a Christian, talk more of an evangelist. The only people I have seen exhibiting such type of fruit are the JWs. And now, you've joined them in the league of empty boasting. You seem to be puffed up and consider yourself higher than you're supposed.

Let me teach you some wisdom if only you have an ear to hear and a heart to receive:

Declaring yourself as an evangelist means you want people to accept you as an evangelist without any evidence that you are one. If you do not have any evidence to show, it is wise for you to say "I am an evangelist by calling." That way, no one thinks you are forcing yourself on him or her as an evangelist. The acceptance of you by anybody would be solely at the person's discretion. If you have an ordination certificate, you can say it anywhere that you are an evangelist. When asked for proof, you simply present your Ordination certificate. This would make people know what type of evangelist you are without first watching you preach.

Since you have no certificate, the only way I can verify if you are an evangelist is by your character and preaching. Your character so far has not been good enough. As for your preaching, it is better left to the imagination.

achorladey:
One already said Boomark can never be his brother which is what led to the discussion regarding the name Christian between him and that known liar and manipulator on nairaland

Lol. Dem don dey show am shege? Very soon, him eye go clear.

achorladey:
I see him as someone who shares sympathy with what the Jehovah’s Witnesses do but definitely not one of them. There are some terms he use in his words that Jehovah's Witnesses don't use. I think he said he is not one of them in one of his post as well.

Allow Boomark to keep counting scores.

He doesn't even know that the JW are seeing him as an unbeliever who will never make heaven.

achorladey:
Fxmasterz see this.......



He is not one of them.

Okay, it seems he is not yet well aquatinted with them to know who they really are. He's just supporting them naively.

He should put their Bible beside Interlinear Bible to see how their Bible gets exposed for its outright manipulations.

achorladey:
Boomark will always be Boomark of God keeping scores, he won't allow you rest until he get the required score


I don't really see him as one of Jehovah's Witness based on some of his words here.

Okay, I'll take your word for it. I have only read his words directed at me, and from what I see, he is a JW but since you have had more interactions with him than myself, and you refuse to see him as a JW, I will stop seeing him as a JW until he confirms it any further.

LordReed:
Just do it and let me know.

Yeah sure. You're one of the well mannered atheists on this forum. Unlike Jaephoenix that is so filthy in his mind that he cannot open a sentence without an insult.

You'll sure be invited.

Boomark:
When Saul was about to be made king, their 'goat' loss. That's divine providence because God has already planned that he will lead Saul to Samuel. The donkey later came back on it own.

New World Translation

Acts 11:26 NWT
26 After he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year they assembled with them in the congregation and taught quite a crowd, and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.

It was a name God has already prepared for his people.

1 Peter 4:16 NWT
16 But if [he suffers] as a Christian , let him not feel shame, let him not feel shame, but let him keep on glorifying God in this name.

You should start glorifying God in this name - Christian. Because it is a name that came from God. Those you say it, maybe as an insult didn't know that is God who made it so. They were used to make the make the popular.

I prefer New World Translation to other bible because I used all of them. The problem is not in your organisations bible as people use to believe but in what you people are believing as individuals.

Achorladey, can you see already that he's a JW? This guy is a demon possessed liar.

Boomark:
See the way you are foolishly laughing. You don't even understand what he is pointing at.

Mtcheww! Fake evangelist.

Boomark:
I am a one man squad.

When I spoke about first fruit. It was I alone against many who practiced it. I used about 5 to 6 scriptures to conquer them and they all went silent.

I don't do insults like the FxMasterz, the certificate pastor who doesn't know anything. All he has is insults and gossips. He can't answer a simple question as pastor he claimed he is. It is very shameful.

I use scriptures. That was why I said I can boast and nothing will happen.

Meanwhile, this proud boomark of Satan was the first to tell me "I don't want to say you don't have sense". Bitter lying boomark of Satan .

You boastful attitude already shows that demons dwell in you.


Romans 1:28-32:

"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless."

Interestingly, you and your fellow JW brothers are like that, and do not even know that demons dwell inside of you.

jaephoenix:
1.You say those that expose your scam of denying stuff you said are derailing the thread. Interesting… so we shouldn't expose your lies, right?
2.You said debate is about intelligent design. I have shown you that there's no intelligence in the 'intelligent design', and it still wouldn't penetrate your skull

Oya show me where I said the debate is about intelligent design. I've known for a long time that you're a dullard.

LordReed:
LoLz. I said I beg you to go on YouTube, who is begging you not to go. Go let people who are experts school you very well. When you upload your YouTube video make sure you let me know, I'll be waiting.

Perhaps you think experts won't speak according to the books. I'll catch their lies on the fly.

jaephoenix:
This is the dvmbest apology for 'fine tuning'
1. Speaking from the medical view, the sun distance still causes damages in the body> Examples like basal and squamous cell carcinomas. So I guess we should get a bit distance. Also the Earth's distance is constantly changing all the time.

A car still causes accidents and terminated many lives. How does that prove that the car has no manufacturer? Dumb atheist.

Ignorant atheist, the risks of skin cancer is as a result of the complexity of life, not a flaw in design.

2. Actually we don't have the right amount of oxygen in our lungs, our alveoli still have lots of work extracting the low volume of oxygen.

How does not having enough capital base in a business prove that the business has no founder? The excellent work the lung is capable of doing in extracting enough oxygen for the body is another testament to purposeful design.

3. Ever heard of tsunamis? What do you think causes them? Lol

Ever heard of plane crash, how does a plane crash prove the plane has no manufacturer?😆 The tsunamis and hurricanes contribute to the sharpening of the planet and create diverse ecosystems. The complex design of plate tectonics and oceanic processes demonstrate purposeful designs.

4. I hope you know there are better solvents than water. Did you do any

physics or chemistry?

How does that prevent water from from fulfilling its intended purpose? Are you this dumb? The availability of better solvents does not eliminate the fact that water is fulfilling its purpose. Water wasn't made only as a solvent.

5. Cosmic radiations still manage to penetrate the earth. So what's the point?

The atmosphere and the magnetic field of the earth protect life from harmful radiation. The complex mechanism involved in this protection if further proof of purposeful dealing

Boomark:
FxMasterz who claimed he was a winner chapel pastor 23 years ago is insisting that I show him my certificate as an evangelist to prove that I am one. I told him I don't have any because Christ, his followers and all the apostles didn't need any certificate to do the work of God. The certificate he is asking for is man-made and I don't practice man-made doctrines

Now let me teach him as an evangelist and from the word of God. I will use the word of God to show him that nobody needs a certificate to be ordained or become a pastor, evangelist, prophet, etc. And I would want him as a certificate Winner chapel pastor with years of experience to show us with just ONE scripture where certificate is a requirement for anybody to become an evangelist or prophet.

‭Romans 8:30 KJV‬
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

‭Ephesians 4:11 NRSV‬
[11] The gifts he gave were that some would be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,

First I am not a Winners Pastor. I was one until I left Winners 23 years ago. Do not present any falsehood about me. Your heading is misleading.

Then secondly, show me where I ever said anyone needs a certificate to be ordained a Pastor or Evangelist!! This is number one proof that you do not abide in the truth. You are an arrogant lover of lies. If otherwise, prove me wrong.

I told you that there are two ordinations:

1. The Spiritual ordination which Ephesians 4:11 talked about. It is a call into one of the 5 fold Ministries of Christ. A spiritual ordination is often followed by a physical ordination.

2. A physical ordination is often followed by a certificate of ordination.

Clearly, these scripturea shows that God has already ordained and justify those he called and that nobody needs a certificate to be made an evangelist of God.

Only Ephesians 4:11 addresses the issue of ministry in the 2 Scripturas you quoted. Romans 8:30 is not talking about ministry but about all Believers who are called into salvation and are justified according to predestination. By using this Romans 8:30 to justify ministerial ordination, you already expose your ignorance of Scripture.

Question:

1. Show me just one person in the bible that needed certificate to become an evangelist? Use scriptures to defend yourself.

Please don't use gossips from Quora or hearsay from people to dodge or answer this question. Use scriptures alone. This will surely go a long way to show that you are not empty as I have observed because you have never defended anything with scriptures.
Answer the question, don't dodge it and shame winner's pastors and their certificate. As an evangelist, I have taught you something from the scripture, so as a certificate pastor, show me the answer from the scripture. You Must Show It.

Boomark of God

The bolded above shows your insincerity and your penchant for mischief. I used Quora confessions of former JWs and current JWs to prove to you that indeed the JWs use scripting in their talks. Would I be using scriptures to prove that JWs do script their talks? A reasonable person would accept the confessions of both current and previous members as proof. Berating me for using Quora instead of the Scriptures without telling the World exactly what I used Quora to do also shows how deceptive you can be.

Now, back to the topic, if you have followed through all my previous conversations on this platform, you would have immediately noticed that I am one of the heaviest users of Scripture to silence false doctrines on this platform. And I would soon prove that to you.

As i have told you before on the other thread, I would tell you again that in the days of the Apostles of the Lord Jesus, there were no certificates issued because certificates are a latter invention of the world. However, instead of certificates, we often see letters of endorsements. The letters of endorsements do what certificates do today - they help the Church to differentiate genuine ministers from charlatans. A letter of endorsement was the item you needed to gain recognition for your spiritual office anywhere you go. Once certificates were invented, the church adopted certificates to identify who ordained you, where you were ordained, and what your denomination is. By denomination, we are able to know what your doctrines are, and the likelihood of you not being an heretic. Let me show you a few incidents in Scripture where we see letters of endorsements.

Incident 1: Letter of Endorsement for Apollos

Acts 18:27

"When he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace."

Incident 2: Paul's Letter of Endorsement for Phoebe the Deaconess

Romans 16:1-2 - Phoebe:

"I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me."


Incident 3: Paul's Letter of Endorsement for Mark

Colossians 4:10 - Mark:

"Aristarchus my fellow prisoner greets you, and Mark the cousin of Barnabas (concerning whom you have received instructions: if he comes to you, welcome him)."

Incident 4: The Apostles' Letter of Endorsement for Paul, Barnabas, Judas and Silas

Acts 15:24-27

"We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.".

Incident 5: Paul's Letter of Endorsement for Titus and Other Brethren With Him

2 Corinthians 8:23:

"As for Titus, he is my partner and co-worker among you; as for our brothers, they are representatives of the churches and an honor to Christ."

Paul refers to Titus as his "partner and co-worker," further endorsing his ministry and leadership. He further endorses other brethren as the Representatives of the Body of Christ. This is did when he sent Titus and some group of believers together to the church at Corinth for ministry. When they got there, they didn't have to start shouting 'We are evangelists". The letters certified them already.


Incident 6: Paul's Letter of Endorsement for Timothy

Philippians 2:19-22:

"I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you soon, that I also may be cheered when I receive news about you. I have no one else like him, who will show genuine concern for your welfare. For everyone looks out for their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ. But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel."

Here, Paul endorses Timothy by praising his genuine concern for others and his faithful service alongside Paul.
1 Corinthians 4:17:

"For this reason I have sent to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church."

Paul commends Timothy as faithful in the Lord and capable of teaching and reminding others of Paul's teachings and therefore should be allowed to teach anywhere. He didn't have to keep shouting everywhere he goes, "I'm an evangelist" like you are doing. The letter of endorsement was his proof? Where's your own proof boomark? You want us to take your shouting as proof?

In 3 John 1:9-10,The Apostle John writes about the negative actions of Diotrephes, who refused to acknowledge letters of commendation and endorsements (today, we would say he refused to acknowledge certificates) and even refused to welcome traveling brethren.

"9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not welcome us. 10 So when I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, spreading malicious nonsense about us. Not satisfied with that, he even refuses to welcome other believers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church."


These references demonstrate the practice of writing letters to commend or certify individuals in ministry during the New Testament era. When certificates were invented, certificates were issued instead of letters. Without the certificates, it is difficult for the global church to accept you as an evangelist because there is no physical evidence that you are one. Humans don't see the Evangelistic office you carry if you truly carry one. It is wise for you to say on a public forum, "I am an Evangelist by calling." No one would ask for your certificate because if you lie about your calling, it is between you and God. But once you declare, I am an evangelist, we would ask for you certificate because we don't know you. It is your certificate that will tell us who you truly are. For example if you present a Celestial certificate to me as an Evangelist, I would have to grill you further to know what type of spirit you really carry. A certificate is therefore a document that allows you to be easily accepted into the congregation of the saints anywhere you go. This is the Wisdom of God in the Churches to root out charlatans who lay fictitious claims to a calling even when they were never called.

Modified
The University of Bologna (founded in 1088) issued the first known certificates of recognition, called "licentia docendi," In the 12th Century AD which granted permission to teach.

It is only ignorance that can make anyone to expect the Church to issue certificates at a time when nothing like that existed in the world. Before certificates came into being, Churches used letters of endorsement. Today, we use certificates.

LordReed:
LoLz. Take it to YouTube and get schooled. Please I am begging you.

What's there in Youtube? The situation there would not be different from here!

No one can ever prove that other things other than a mind can create purpose. Only a mind can create a purpose. It cannot be argued against anywhere. I don't know why you guys don't want me to go to Youtube. You are afraid of the damage this will do to atheism worldwide?

achorladey:
When i told many that the group name has been bastardized most of them will start arguing blindly.

Due to the atrocities committed in the name of CHRISTIANITY most religionists don't want to be identified as Christians anymore yet they want to claim they believe in Christ.

Well that group name "CHRISTIANS" wasn't God's choice it was used as to vilify the disciples in a city called Antioch {Act 11:26} but the disciples welcomed the new development since they're ready to suffer humiliation for the love of their Master! Matthew 10:33

Jehovah foresaw this long ago that's why He said about Satan and his agents:

You will leave behind a name (CHRISTIANS) that my chosen ones will use as a curse, And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will put each of you to death (all enemies of Christ including those calling him Lord but not practicing what he taught) But his own servants he will call by another name (JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES) Isaiah 65:15



Boomark those are the words of Maxindhouse. It is Satan's agent that use the group name CHRISTIANS


Emusan come and see the WE referring to Jehovah's servants aka Jehovah's witnesses earthwide.

Fxmasterz

Boomark of Satan will say it's a lie. He'll ask you to stop lying against Max. He shuns all forms of evidence. He embraces only the lies in his heart as truth.

Emusan:
The most astonishing part is how he won't even see anything wrong in all these.

Since he claims to be a Christian now, and according to him "a Christian too may turn back from following the Way of holiness..."

So, very soon he too can turn back from following the way of holiness (who even knows whether he has turned back since)

Are you still taking that one serious? That one that doesn't know what he's doing?

achorladey:
Boomark of God already knows MaxInDHouse is lying and manipulating his words regarding him being a Christian. My post should help Boomark to see more evidence to nail MaxInDHouse as a liar.

Boomark of Satan is not interested in the truth. He is a liar himself and therefore loves fellow liars. That's why he's in bed with the liars on this thread.

achorladey:
The lies and manipulations packed into your madness and insanities peddling brains won't end today.



That's why you created a thread titled Christians and Jehovah's witnesses what is the difference?



From the above

1. Boomark is a Christian while

2. MaxInDHouse is a Jehovah's witnesses


because MaxInDHouse believe Boomark has turn his back on Jehovah and didn't stick to all what Jesus taught..

Q. E. D. MaxInDHouse you are not a Christian


Emusan knew very well you will lie and manipulate your own words when caught lying with your madness and insanities peddling brains.

cc: Fxmasterz, Courz

Lol. Let me see how the bitter lying satanic evangelist boomark will respond.

Lucifyre:
Oh man it seems i really triggered you for you to go mentioning me in past topics. You are actually dumber than i thought and that's not even an insult and i'ld show you why. A bit busy now but would respond when i have time.

What does it matter if I mentioned you in past topics. Can't you see how dumb you are? You only come here to insult someone who never insulted you. There is a debate at hand which you never ventured to look into. You are foolishly and unashamedly running away from the debate citing AI. I provided two different answers to one mention. One was not finetuned while the other was, your dumb self jumped on the finetuned one and started wailing AI. Are you so unintelligent that you cannot even debate AI? You lots are just pathetic!