₦airaland Forum

Lucifyre:
Man! pls tell me you're having a laugh and been facetious, cause if you're being serious with your first sentence, then Oh dear! I asked for a source and proof that science claimed the earth was flat, you didn't provide the proof but instead substantiated it with an even more ludicrous claim. It's ok, ur hole to dig anyway. Simply provide reputable sources and proofs verifying your claims here. No need for any other thread, thats a silly excuse to run away. Then again its ur usual m.o. "I'll soon start a thread...", i guess i'll be shattered like you shattered atheists in your previous thread. 🤪🤡

Chai!

It's like asking for a proof that human beings have eyes. Don't tell me you're this ignorant. Who on earth doesn't know that science once believed that the earth was flat. Go and ask your AI and stop disturbing me with unnecessary noise.

Yes now, atheists, including you have not been able to offer any sound argument against my position.

Lucifyre:
Man you spout so much dross confidently, "the bible is not a science book" obviously yes, so it shouldn't pretend to be one by telling us how things came about, when much of what it has told us has been proven to be outrightly false. From the creation story of Genesis, to the flood and the exit of the Israelites out of Egypt amongst many others.

Can you show me any source where science claimed the earth was flat?! An obvious lie or just plain myopic ignorance. Instead its the other way round the bible as can even be seen from your verses and has been proven by scholars with examples even sited in the Jewish study bible, always pictured the earth as flat with a circular dome of the firmament or heavens above it which is obviously wrong. The church and bible propagated a lot of erroneous beliefs which science has contradicted again and again.

They even proposed the erroneous belief of geocentricism of which can be seen from the bible with Joshua telling the sun to stand still which makes no sense. They made Gallileo recant his heliocentric model which was right and dealt with him until they were finally made to accept the heliocentric model with their tails between their legs. Science has always proven religion wrong not the other wat round and you obviously can't site any claim science made that the earth is flat. Just your usual ignorant and myopic cope. Educate urself.

So, you don't know that science has long believed that the earth was flat and was supported by 4 elephants? Hahaha? That was where science was before it came to know of recent that the earth is spherical. This is common knowledge now.

Don't worry, I'll soon start a thread that would prove to you that the Bible knows a lot more than science does. Just wait for it. You'll be shattered by the truths that would be revealed from the original Hebrew Bible.

Lucifyre:
🥱 Go sit in the corner and educate yourself so you don't spout absolute dross confidently next time. Frigging empty vessel. You suddenly don't have my time after digging into old posts to mention me cause you got triggered.

Oh dear. Not so. I was going through your threads and found a topic that caught my attention. I saw that the answers to the question you asked were not properly presented, so, I decided to provide the answer. Triggered by what exactly? What did you do to me that could have triggered me?

Lucifyre:
Of course that's all youd say after disgracing urself. Remember when i told you to just go?!

Which disgrace? You think your pettiness carry any influence? What do you make of yourself dear?

My conscience is pure. As long as I didn't manipulate anything to arrive at my position, I'm as free as a bird.

Lucifyre:
Hmm! it seems your vocabulary is just as bad as your IT Specialist Knowledge 😅, its spelt maggot bruv, educate yourself. So you weren't the one who clearly refused to debate JessicaRabbit fair and square or is it one of these demons you keep seeing everywhere due to your schizophrenia. Nice try to deviate from the topic, now pls address the obvious contradictions instead of deviating or running away. What mental gymnastics are you going to employ. Tick Tock!

Lol. So, my typo is now your vocabulary.

This petty kid, I don't have your time. Go and play with your friends. You don't ever say anything meaningful that anyone can gain from in your life. Yours is to curse, curse, curse and abuse. Keep cursing and abusing you hear? Your eyes will soon clear. I don't have the time for your nonesense. You're just a time waster.

Anyway, thank you for bringing that screenshot supposedly from an AI, it has given me more powerful points for my position. My position now has higher momentum.

Lucifyre:
Like i said you're frigging ignorant, AI can't argue in support of creationism. Then where the heck did the attached screenshot come from, slowpoke?! Its one thing to be ignorant but to be ignorant and confident is bottom of the barrel. An IT specialist capping ignorant dross, you sure its not a business center specialist claiming IT specialist. Trust me i have your time, im free this week and im going to respond to even those old topic mentions you went to dig up and show you how frigging ignorant your are.

I had a very lengthy argument with the AI. I cannot screenshot everything but I'll screenshot the very beginnings of the debate.

See below:

Lucifyre:
😄 Is that all you have to say, IT specialist that doesn't use prompt 😁

Kid, AI doesn't believe or disbelieve in anything. AI always confesses that it's not sentient, hence can never believe or disbelieve. Hence your screenshots are very fictitious.

Lucifyre:
🤣🤣 Embarrassing. Poster child of embarassment with no shame. Where's the original you gave to AI to "fine tune"?!

Mtcheww. You this lying little kid.

Lucifyre:
You sir have got no shame and very little brain cells. Your only two braincells are basically fighting for 3rd place.

Mtcheww. This kid.

Lucifyre:
I remember when i asked this question to your cretard of a friend the context was around the bible contradicting itself which it does numerously. The coward stilldfool ran away from the convo and you his side kick after running away from your debate on another thread came to jump in after getting triggered. Well If God changes his mind explain the following:

Numbers 23:19
1 Samuel 15:29
Malachi 3:6
Hebrews 13:8
James 1:17
Psalm 33:11
Isaiah 46:9-10
Ezekiel 24:14

Contradiction after contradiction of your joke of a text.

Lol.

You're just very pathetic. Which debate did I run away from? You're just as filthy as Maggot. Going about insulting people and lying everywhere you go. Don't you ever get tired? You demon possessed daughter of the devil!

Lucifyre:
If i outrightly call you a mor.on or cretard it'll look like an insult but ur ignorance stinks to the high heavens. You are not as educated as you think you are and what little education you think you have has obviously yeilded no tangible results. Do you even know what a prompt is, you ignorant fvck?! Let me explain how daft you sound, its like saying i don't drink soda i only drink fanta or i don't eat noodles i only eat indomie. Go and educate urself on what a prompt is and wallow in shame. Told u, u would keep embarrassing urself.

Why won't you berated for gloating about debating and "defeating" (this is still funny) AI. Same AI that is malleable and unconfrontational to your responses especially around topic bordering on religion and politics. Same AI that spouts nonsense and incorrect info from time to time with the caveat made known to users by the programmers. Same AI that spouted all the dross below when people gave it prompts it specific prompts and it got confused. Its absolute stupidity to gloat that you debated and beat AI but its m.oronic not to realise that.

Mtcheww. Such a petty little kid.

Lucifyre:
Like i said you're frigging ignorant, AI can't argue in support of creationism. Then where the heck did the attached screenshot come from, slowpoke?! Its one thing to be ignorant but to be ignorant and confident is bottom of the barrel. An IT specialist capping ignorant dross, you sure its not a business center specialist claiming IT specialist. Trust me i have your time, im free this week and im going to respond to even those old topic mentions you went to dig up and show you how frigging ignorant your are.

Hahaha, bring it out from the beginning. You probably gave it my argument or you manipulated it.

AI always tells you it has no belief because it's just an AI and not human. AI would tell you it has no capacity to believe or disbelief. This is obviously manipulated. What do you intend to achieve?

AI is not a sentient entity and therefore has no capacity to believe or disbelieve in a Creator!

Lucifyre:
😅 IT specialist indeed, you are so daft its not funny. Ignorant and confident illiterate wa.nker. Keep embarrassing urself, my screenshot is what? BI?! wtf

Mtcheww. Na only mouth you get. Sense no dey

Onyedikachi231:
Redemption camp that you've made your second home but your life is still deVoid of meaning, your brain is porous, you are hopeless, your personality worthless, you leave God almighty to worship a 90 year old scammer and tribalistic bigot, a lunatic for that matter and you said you will ever amount to anything.

Imagine, instead of working on your miserable and senseless life, you are busy gallivanting up and down at your redeem camp, you should have just gone to block a 911 trailer instead of wasting your life.

Smiling. Foolishness of the highest order. You don't even know my attainment to have had the guts to spew these thrash. You think I'm here to exchange words with a nobody?

Heed my advice. Tell your kids what you've done. Recall this conversation and provide them the solution I have recommended.

Do not expect any response from me anymore. Those words I spoke into your life came from one with spiritual authority. Joke with them at your own risk.

armadeo:
You will never get it. Please forget it. This is beyond you.

I've been in ministry for more than 30yrs. I have had the opportunity to head different organizations as well. So, I can tell you that you know nothing.

You're expecting them to delegate invitations? Even when there are crises in church branches around the world that have gone beyond the capacity of the local leaders, they should delegate? Isn't that a wrong move! If they've been delegating, would they have succeeded up to this level? You're just being myopic.

Even with their jets, they still reject a lot of invitations. Many sons start churches all over the world and invite them for commissioning. Many friends all over the world invite them for ministrations. These are people who are booked 3 yrs ahead, yet everyday is full.

You also don't understand the concept of eternal rewards. You're very ignorant and dabbling into things that are absolutely beyond you.

Onyedikachi231:
And if he is scamming, these curses will dwell with you, your family, and your generations to the third and tenth.

No be the idiot Say that God punished Job becauSe Job didn't pay tithe, that is all he talks about, fleecing his members of tHeir money, while his co-stealers, tinupuuu is taxing even unborn fetus.

You think it's by speaking empty words?

Tell your children what you've done because when it begins, their only solution would be to go to redemption camp for forgiveness.

But except you repent, you've delivered a legacy of lunacy to your generation. Earth has heard, and it's already ratified in the heavens!

Onyedikachi231:
What matters are beyond him?
That he is questioning your scamming lunatic adeboye or that he is all of a sudden a deaf and dumb beast of burden that can't call out the evils of tinupuu his tribeman?
He is doing it since neophytes like you has sacrificed his brain on gullibility and ignorance.

Which is beyond him?

Just mark it. If Adeboye is indeed scamming, may your curses of lunacy cling to him. But if you are disrespecting this innocent and aged man of God for no fault of his, may lunacy cling to you from generation to generation. You would never lack a lunatic in your family for ever!

Onyedikachi231:
Meaning, there is none you can place your hand on, that your dubious pastor Adeboye is a scamming dubious Bigoted tribalistic imbecïle, a thief in suit that will die painfully And will drench in the hottest part of hellfire, God gave him a chance to turn a new leaf but he chose his stomach to God almighty, you will see how miSerable he will die. Idiotic pastorpreneurs.

I am not a member of Redeem myself!

I have watched a YouTube video in which Adeboye was lamenting about what these government has caused the people. He started by saying ",We thought these people meant well o..." At my age, I would not be scouting YouTube for you to substantiate a claim. If you love the lies you're telling yourself, hold on to them. At least you'll reap what you sow!

Wilgrea7:
Sir, I respectfully disagree. I've read the OP multiple times. The only things "scientific" about the OP are the references to the things that exist in the universe, like the eye and DNA.

Your inference that it suggests some sort of "intelligent design" or super mind is very, very perceptional. You're asking me to disprove an inference that hasn't been proven in the first place. How is that supposed to work?

I have established even in the OP that the issue does not rest on the matter of intelligent design but rather on the purposefulness of these designs, to which science agrees.

What exactly is according to science? The science of what exactly? You've been spamming the word science like it's supposed to automatically give credibility to unsubstantiated claims. Science is not some book you quote from.

Already stated in the OP. I differentiated between what my inference is (only one inference) and what we know according to science.

It's actually very interesting that you're trying to posit that science does not automatically give credibility to unsubstantiated claims. You would never say this actually if you were quoting science for yourself. However, there's no unsubstantiated claims in science. The two words don't go together.

I do not know what you infer by unsubstantiated claims since I never made any claims that I attributed to science. I only drew a single inference from scientific findings.

What branch or field of science substantiates the claim that nothing else can create something with "purpose" other than a mind? How do you even go about defining what a mind is, or what "purpose" is supposed to be? At this point you end up using very very fluid words to try to paint an idea of something that doesn't exist.

Is this not the only thing I told you was borne out of my own inference? I never attributed it to science.

I think it would be a good idea if you kindly defined for us, what a "mind" is, in this context.

We're not defining what a mind is. We're pointing out what a mind can do because of what we have seen only minds do. We know by experience that only a mind can create a purpose. For example, you're posting this argument because in your mind you want to disprove my position. You put your mind to work for this purpose. We don't need to define a mind to know that. If you have any objection, you can point us out to purposeful things in our material world that didn't originate from a mind.

No Sir. Respectfully, it does. You're trying to make reference to something that created the universe. In what other direction do you look? If you're looking for who or what created a car, do you look inside the car? What part of the wires and metals and oil suggests that the creator of the car is made of super metals and super wires and super oils?

I don't think I ever inferred what the Creator was made of to warrant this question in the first place. Please read the OP again. I went as far as establishing that we do not even talk about the kind of mind behind these things. We're not saying it's an intelligent mind, neither are we inferring that it's a human, animal or some other kinds of mind. All purposes have been known to originate from a mind. That's all. To counter this debate, the only thing you need to prove is that there are things other than a mind that have been known to create purpose. Any other thing you say does nothing to the argument. This is the only argument here. You've been arguing on things that this argument does not take a position about.

It's what I've been trying to explain since the beginning. Any claims about what a potential creator (of the universe) is supposed to be, or not be, cannot be based on what or how things exist in the universe.

Please tell me you can at least understand this line of reasoning.

You're actually not addressing the matter. I have never said the Creator of the universe should be or not be anything. I merely hinted at a Creator without qualifying the Creator in anyway.

This debate only tries to establish that where purpose is, there's of necessity a mind, because purpose has been known to originate from minds only.

For example, when I was debating the AI, one of the points the AI raised was that chaos can lead to purposeful designs. The AI then described the situation of an erosion that creates a path for men and beasts through its water course. I countered the AI that the path wouldn't be smooth, and are always known to lead to nowhere. Water does not maintain the path too. With time, the path would became a pit as water continues to erode it. It's not maintained. Which means the path does not look purposeful. The rough path that leads to nowhere is not the same as the complex system of things that are extremely orderly. A symphony of complex things compositely fulfilling a shared purpose cannot be said to originate out of chaos. The maintenance of things - for example, self-healing or repairs also destroys that position. I also established to the AI that even if the paths were smoothed and were known to lead to purposeful destinations, we'll still establish water as the creator of the path.

And of course, water is the undisputed creator of the path but a mindless water cannot create the same type of orderly, smooth, complex and purposeful paths that we have seen man creating. The difference between man and water is the mind. We see these sane type orderliness, complexities and purposefulness in our universe. Infact, on a very much higher dimension.

So, we establish that there's a mindful Creator.

Onyedikachi231:
I just told you now to bring out a source to where he was criticizing the tinubu government, just one mr man, or are you lying too like your pastors, just bring out one example na, it can't be hard, I've seen videos where he is telling us to pray but did 1 million match for Jonathan, just one video bro.

Go to YouTube. I'm not the one to teach you to confirm information before opening your mouth to criticize.

armadeo:
Again time management and delegation. If you don't get it forget it.

Isn't it a human being that fixes the dates for ministration ? Abeg

Please stick to offices if that's what you know about. Don't dabble into matters that are beyond you.

What kind of advice is that? Instead of receiving jet gifts, reject them so that you can delegate when you're needed around the world. Even in management, you cannot delegate all the time!

Onyedikachi231:
So he is 90 years now right, did the 90 also affect his mouth too?
Which government did you say he spoke against? Just give me one evidence or source to watch in youtube or any video where he spoke against the government of tinuBu that hunger is killing his church members, just one example please?

Or have they started teaching how to lie in redeem church because anything is possible with those criminals of god adeboye.

Adeboye has been speaking against the government from the pulpit. You only hear what the media push out while you keep sinning against an innocent man in your ignorance. Adeboye doesn't grant any press interview. Everything you ever hear of him are what the media pick from his sermons. Go and find out what he has said. He has spoken against this government many times. You guys are just bringing curses upon yourselves abusing an old man that has done you no wrong!

armadeo:
There's no such thing as being in two places at once. One has to be more important than the other. Delegate.

Gift of a jet. Loooooool

Anyway if dem wan buy spaceship e no concern me.

Yeah. Not gift of a jet but gifts of jets. You can keep laughing. What is impossible for you is possible for others.

In ministry, you cannot delegate an invitation to minister.

Wilgrea7:
Let me get this straight. You gave your perception of the universe.. which is based on an unverifiable claim.. and I'm the one who's supposed to come up with an "alternative" perception?

I didn't give my perception of the universe. All the claims are scientific. You should read the OP again. The only inference I drew was that Only A Mind Can Create a Purpose. This inference was drawn from our existential experience on earth.

You're the one who is required to substantiate your claim first.

Second of all. I never claimed to have an alternative position as to why things are the way they are. I only told you your perception lacks the evidence needed to be taken seriously. And so far you've not given me any reason to think otherwise.

I didn't make any claim. I only drew an inference which you have not yet disputed. Infact, you have not addressed the issue at all.

That is not a fact. That is your perception which you're trying to paint as a fact. That's the fundamental point we disagree. That's one of the unverifiable claims you keep making.

All these are according to science. Please read the OP again and confirm these facts from science literatures.

You're talking about what we've observed, so far, IN our universe. Not OF our universe. 2 different things. That's why I disagree with you.!/quote]
You should actually prove that any other thing apart from a mind can create a purpose.

[quote]Just because something applies inside a system, doesn't mean it must apply outside, or about said system. That's something you need to try to understand here.

Except you have another universe outside of here. What we're talking about is our own universe. Whatever applies outside of our universe has nothing to do with us.

Observing how things inside the universe work says very little about how and especially why the universe came to be.

Nobody is talking about why the universe came to be or how the universe came to be. We're talking about what the universe does and why it does it.

I'll say it again. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest the "things" outside the universe HAVE TO work the same way things inside the universe do. And we have no way to confirm or falsify our hypothesis.. which is why I call it an unverifiable claim.

Things outside the universe are none of our business please. No one is taking about things outside our universe.

You've neither shown something that's indisputable, nor something that's a fact.



The line between a "creator" and a "god" is one i fail to see. I only used the word creator because you were protesting against the word god. To me, they would mean the same thing, or at least be interchangeable.

Let me break it down for you.

Except you fail to see that people worship God because they believe He created them.

A creator implies a god
A first cause does not imply a creator, nor a god. But that's another topic. Not so important here.



I've addressed these points above.

If people believe that there's no Creator, they wouldn't even have the word "God" in their dictionary.

Purpose is very, very subjective. The pothole was not made for the puddle.. nor was the puddle made for the pothole.

I'm not claiming there's no purpose. I'm not claiming there is. I... Dont... Know.

Science says there is. You only don't know because it doesn't suit the position you want to make. Science has told us why these complex mechanisms behave the way they do. These are not my own personal discoveries or position.

But your reason for the perceived purpose, is one that has no basis outside the anthropogenic view of things. And like I said twice above, is based on the unverifiable claim, that things outside/about the nature of the universe function the same way things in the universe do.

There's no perceived purpose in the whole of these argument. The purposes here are scientifically stated purposes.

armadeo:
Clown. There's something called appropriate time.management./ delegation of jobs.

Clown, receiving the gift of a jet to be able to do more around the world is appropriate time management. Clown, you cannot always delegate in places where you very presence is very much needed.

samfrancis1:
boss they're getting it for luxury.. what do they need to.go.preach out there when they haven't gotten the ministration to all nooks and cranies of Nigeria yet... make your home before going to other people home ....

They have branches everywhere. They receive invitations everywhere.

You guys don't even know anything about Church ministry.

Church does not operate the way you are thinking. Ministry is not just preaching within your locality because you've not reached the nooks and crannies. Did Paul reach the nooks and crannies of Tarsus before traveling everywhere to preach?

BeigJawnson:
So you also misquote me with this comment?_

This was a response to your mention when I still taught I was responding to the same person who said only Nigerian pastors owned jets.

BeigJawnson:
Misquote me? Lol ... Dey play ....

There was someone who said Nigerian pastors are the only ones who own jets. I wanted to mention that person and mistakenly mentioned you instead. So what's the play there?

BeigJawnson:
You mumu gan ooo and you have serious problem with comprehension...



Check below and show me the bitterness in my comment in the screen shot... Someone was speaking against pastor using private jets yet I am letting him know what he is saying is wrong and yet you are there saying I have bitterness in me.... You must be mumu ooo

My God, you're just too much of a bad guy!

I mistakenly responded to you. My response to you was meant for another person. You were supposed to have immediately observed that and called my attention to it, and I would have apologized. But being immature and childish, you retorted to insults. Is this the first time anyone would misquote you on Nairaland?

akaahs:
How many properties did Jesus own to propagate the gospel?

Did Jesus receive invitations to preach all over the world?

BeigJawnson:
You have problem with simple comprehension ... You must be lacking in reasoning... Do you read my comment well? Where do you see in my comment that I am against pastors using private jets? You must have low reasoning ... Your likes skip comprehensive passages in English Exams.. . well done

Why are you so bitter? I responded to your allegation that only Nigerian pastors have jets. That's the only part of your post I read because I had so many mentions to respond to.

All types of hooligans are on Nairaland. See the response of someone who'll later refer to himself as a human being. Instead of you to simply ask me to read you reply again, you retorted to insults. Yet, you even quoted Bible. Shame on you!

BadBradley:
you're a criminal. You're so stupid and worthless because of the dumb people you convince and fleece every Sunday.

You and your master are con artists and fraudsters

The agony of a demon- possessed loser.