₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
1. In the first one, you conveniently ignored the major command given them which is to teach to the people the very same commandments and teachings He gave to them.

And they did exactly that:

"Then his disciples went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord kept working with them and confirming the message..."

2. In the statement taken from Mark 16, Jesus Christ said the signs listed in Mark 16 vs 16 - 18 were signs that followed those who believed in Him; the signs in question were not signs that confirmed God's presence in the lives of those who were healed by his followers but rather signs that they, His followers, were believers in Him.

John 14:23
"Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."

"All believers have the Father's Presente. Jesus said "Lo, I am with you even to the close of the age." Mathew 28:20.

3. Jesus Christ said those who believe in Him will do the good(righteous) works He did. He did not say those works were works of healing and casting out demons though. The same Jesus Christ is recorded in Matthew 7 to have made clear that those whose focus is on doing wonders and signs are not of Him.
The signs revealed in Mark 16 are signs that follow those who believe in Jesus Christ. They are by no means of good works and not that which Jesus Christ said His Followers would do so much more of.

All these are lies. This is the complete statement of Jesus:

John 14:11-14

"Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

Jesus said He'll do the works whenever we ask Him to do them!

"Miracles, signs and wonders, healings, etc., happen to voodoo believers, witches, atheists, agnostics, etc., every single day on this planet to confirm what the God of Israel said which is that He will show mercy to those who He wishes to show mercy and He will do it every day.

They happened to Pharaoh's magicians too. But do you know the difference? Moses' rod swallowed up all their rods.

Kobojunkie:
How are they all proof of Jesus Christ?

Because He was asked to do something and He did that it without the intervention of any human.

DeusXmachina:
I don't think they're usually staged, but you attribute these to the existence of the supernatural, and also as proof of your specific religious beliefs.

I attribute it to the human mind and/or altered states of consciousness, not proof of the supernatural as the only effects observed are on a person's psyc. nothing else.
There's a difference.

So, when a person comes to me for prayer, his mind is immediately altered as I pray for him or her?

There was a woman whose son was operated on his right leg for elephantiasis. The disease resurfaced and at the time in 2014, she was looking for another 100k for a second operation. She brought the child to me and I laid hands on the leg, praying in the name of Jesus. That was on a Monday morning. The woman came back on Wednesday to show me the reduced size of the leg. The child's leg continued reducing in size until it became as normal as the other.

Tell me whose mind was altered in the above scenario. The woman, the child or both of them? There are many things you don't understand. And you'll never understand until you come to Jesus.

Chrisrare:
I'll be convinced if you perform this your miracles on an amputee. should i bring an amputee?

You mean you'll be convinced about medical science if a dentist does the work of a gynecologist on your pregnant wife?

TimiRume:
Amen. Thanks for these scriptures. Really needed here for reference. Isn't God so wise!!! Even nature subtly teaches us so!!! Wisdom cries out of everything really! 🙂

There have been no truer words spoken. Only wise men have this understanding.

TimiRume:
Yes. Thank you. This is very true. If they'd all accepted Jesus, he wouldn't have been crucified for us all.

But do you not think the principle of laboring to access truths have always applied. I think God's word is multifaceted. Contains so many realities at once. 🙂

Yes, very true.

Even till now, if you're not a genuine seeker, you'll just see the Bible as a story book. The truths are hidden deep inside. They're not on the surface.

Romans 11:33

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"

1 Corinthians 2:10

"But it was to us that God revealed these things by His Spirit. For His Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets."

AntiChristian:
When you talk to laymen using languages they couldn't understand! And afterwards explaining the same thing to others in a simpler way!

Yes, it is deception!

Wise men actually hide their words in parables when addressing an unserious audience so that only the wise would grasp what they're saying. Then , the curious ones can come and seek further explanation. That's what the disciples did, they sought further explanation and Jesus explained it to them. If anyone in the crowd had sought further explanation, Jesus would never reject him or her.

So by your logic, when you don't understand what your teacher teaches you in school, it means you were deceived?

TimiRume:
What do you think? Do you think God is deliberately stopping people from seeing and hearing the truth. Are there people who are sincerely really seeking God and can't seem to find him cos he wouldn't let them?

Isaiah seems to say so...

Look at this

👉Isaiah 6:9-10 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

Even Matthew is saying the same thing.

👉Matthew 13:13-16 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

And Mark too

👉Mark 4:11,12
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

****
So for a long time I struggled with understanding this. It was so strange to me because it didn't seem to agree with many other scriptures that tell us how God desires that all be saved and not perish. I would ask my self what exactly does this mean every time I come across this passage and just quietly brush it off for probably a future time when I will gain better clarity. However, the Holy Spirit challenged me to look at them again and then I saw it. Lol.

But what do you think? What have you seen as regarding this, that seeing they shall see but not understand and hearing they shall here but not perceive?

As a habit, whenever I receive a light from the Holy Spirit, I always jot it down immediately so I dont forget.

This was what I believe the Holy Spirit lighted upon my heart. So I scribbled this down.

👇

Shallow hearing and seeing of God's word would not bring light to the hearer or seer. Only those who dig deep. In other words, those who go beyond Sunday sermons or daily assigned reading/ church programs. When they search the scriptures carefully like their lives depend on it, they will find light and the hidden treasures in dark places.

It's not that God stops people from hearing or seeing his word (as some might interpret Esias) It is that God has made the access of light only for those who labour to find it. Those who are okay with shallow understanding of God are not permitted to find light or granted access to it. They are hardened, blinded and defeaned by God('s law/standard) not to see light.

So people are blinded or deafened from finding the truth because they are comfortable in shallow waters.

Jesus spoke in parables, but only few were curious to know what he meant. The rest just shouted, "Amen" and received some miracle or blessing and left.

They are always in church, some are very involved in Christian activities. They love gathering to "hear" the word.

They are always exposed to the word but never grabbing the reality of the word. "Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." 2 Timothy 3:7

Amen. Please share what you think

Read Romans 9 and 10 for an explanation.

Israel had to be shut out for the crucification to happen. If all Israel had accepted Jesus, Jesus would not be crucified, and the plan of salvation would have failed. God had to shut them out, ensure the crucification of Christ, bring salvation to the world, then re-engraft Israel at a latter date.

AntiChristian:
Where did you derive this from?



John 16:25
"Though I have been speaking figuratively (paroimia), a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father.

Why wasn't Jesus speaking in a normal and clear way all the time? Why did Jesus then go and say that he won't 'use this kind of language' according to the Bible?

Well, here we find out why...

Mark 4:10-12
When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that," 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

So here we see that Jesus was deceiving certain people by speaking in parables so that they won't (and God forbid!) REPENT AND BE FORGIVEN!

So, speaking in parables is deception? How old are you?

DeusXmachina:
Are you consistent with that logic?

So will you accept Islam and Allah if I show you a video/image of a Sufi mystic experiencing the divine?

Or Buddhism if I show you a Buddhist who's managed to spiritually ascend and separated mind from body through their practice of meditation.

Is that your criteria for a claim or belief being true?

I already know that all those exists without being staged. It's those who think everything is staged who need this question.

Kaido:
There is a page on Twitter that drops different Chinese technologies and innovations.

Most of them are even unrealistic when one thinks about it, but the Chinese brings them to reality.

No wonder the American government hates them.

Wow!

Please give me the link to the Chinese twitter page. Thanks in advance.

Kobojunkie:
As I said earlier, I am not a Christian so I hardly reason as Christians do. So, your Christian God manifests whenever you do what you call his work, OK!

My Father does not send me out to compete with the deity of others though, and He does not manifest His presence in the way yours does. Jesus Christ, His Son, healed so many hundreds, for example during His time but even so, the people did not believe God even then. And Jesus Christ never said healing or casting out demons was a way of manifesting God in the lives of those who are healed. Sorry!

Lol.

What did Jesus mean when He said these:

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20.

"And they went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked through them, confirming His word by the signs that accompanied it." Mark 16:20.

"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." John 14:12.

Kobojunkie:
Manifest? You are still using ambiguous language!

Do you automagically insert God into the lives of others because God lives inside of you or something?

Are you this ignorant?

When God sends you to do what any man cannot do, such as casting out demons, He'll do the work, and by doing so, He has manifested.

Kobojunkie:
I am asking because your statement suggests that you believe you wield some sort of power and control over your deity and his presence.

I am not a Christian remember so all those lingos you lot use in your circles I am not always familiar with.

One of the names Jesus was given is Emmanuel, meaning God with us. If God is with you, then wherever you go, the Presence of God would be there, and that Presence would manifest whenever you do what you're commanded to do.

Kobojunkie:
I am asking because your statement suggests that you believe you wield some sort of power and control over your deity and his presence.

I am not a Christian remember so all those lingos you lot use in your circles I am not always familiar with.

One of the names Jesus was given is Emmanuel, meaning God with us. If God is with you, then wherever you go, they Presences of God would be there, and that Presence would manifest when you do what you're commanded to do.

Kobojunkie:
LOL...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Are you for real? What is this presence of God that you bring into the lives of these people by the way?

Are you for real?

You're still asking what the Presence of God is?

Kobojunkie:
Field mission doing what?

We'll both be Ministering to people together. Then, we'll see who is bringing the Presence of God unto the people between us both.

Kobojunkie:
LOL.... even the Pharisees taught they glorified the God of Israel by their numerous mention of His name in their religiosity but we know from all accounts that this was a lie. Convulse their victims during an "encounter" but never before the "encounter"? 🤣🤣 There is no such thing as an "encounter" with Jesus Christ. That was all made up by your religious gods of men to scam you all with.

2. A demon said, "Leave me alone!"? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Would you take up the challenge to be with me in a field mission for 30 days?

Kobojunkie:
First of all, none of the demons that Jesus Christ was written to have cast out presented themselves in the manner that any of those in the videos did though. Also, even Pharaohs magicians, sorcerous, witches, babalawos, shamans, etc. equally had the power to cast out demons. So, I am not sure where you arrived at the idea that those videos showcase Jesus Christ.

Who did those videos glorify? Did the pastor call on his own name?

In Christ's time, demons were recorded to have cried out 'Leave us alone!', 'My name is legion, for we are many', etc. On other occasions, they have been known to convulse their victims during an encounter with Jesus.

I personally have had occasions when the demon said to me ''Leave me alone!'' Tell me how all these are different from that of Jesus.

I can confidently tell you that if we both happen to be in a field ministry together for just 30 days, your views about God and Christendom will change.

Kobojunkie:
See how all so easy you are to con... those videos reveal how seriously deluded you are. None of it is Jesus Christ or anything He represents, but in your blindness and desperation, you refuse to see it.

Of course, deluded people always think everyone is deluded except themselves.

Did Jesus cast out demons? Yes or No?

Kobojunkie:
You are kidding, right? OP, you have never been to the depths of your very own mind, as all those videos tell of you and your thoughts. Nothing in those videos speaks of Jesus Christ or deliverance.

According to kobojunkie. Have you gone for deliverance? I told you you need one. Jesus did deliverance and commanded us to do same.

Chrisrare:
You claim that Jesus is real and powerful. Demonstrate the power of Jesus by making an amputee's hands grow back. Surely, that proves Jesus is real and powerful..

Yeah, there are those who have that mandate from Jesus and they're doing just that.

Chrisrare:
curing a demon possessed person can be staged, the 'demon possessed person' can do an arrangee with the pastor. But making an amputated limb grow back can't be staged. Why does Jesus direct you to perform only miracles that can be staged? That shows he's imaginary.

That's why I said bring someone. When you see real demon possession, you'll know it's not staged.

Chrisrare:
You claim that Jesus is real and powerful. Demonstrate the power of Jesus by making an amputee's hands grow back. Surely, that proves Jesus is real and powerful..

That's where you missed it. If I'm Jesus, then I'll be able to do all things like Jesus. But, I'm not Jesus. I can only do whatever Jesus has sent me to do. He sent me to cast out demons. Bring me a demon possessed fellow, and I'll demonstrate the power of Jesus to you exactly as you see in those videos.

Would you take your pregnant wife to see a dentist regarding the matters relating to her pregnancy? Bring cases Jesus has anointed me to solve, and I'll demonstrate His power to you live and direct.

Chrisrare:
That's not what i asked. Should i bring an amputee for YOU to use and demonstrate the power of Jesus? I don't need cock and bull stories about other people's testimonies.

First, who are we talking about? Is it me or Jesus?

Chrisrare:
Where do you reside, I'll bring an amputee for you to use to demonstrate the power of Jesus. Since Jesus is real and powerful, making the amputee's hands grow back shouldn't be difficult for him.

There are many testimonies like that. Very many. Everyone can demonstrate whatever Jesus has given him to demonstrate. Amputees growing back missing limbs isn't a rare occurrence in Pentecostalism.

LordReed:
Yes, I saw something akin to a clown show, that's why I'm laughing.

If all you can see is a clown show, keep laughing.

LordReed:
LMFAO!

At least you can't say you didn't see anything.

KnownUnknown:
They will say anything and everything except point to a person that can be seen.

Reminds me of their stupid “arguments for gods) existence”.

So, all those endless number of people who give testimonies on numerous pulpits all over the world are invisible?

The guys in those videos you watched up there are not seen? Or you want me to load you with even more videos before you can see?

KnownUnknown:
He jumped off a high precipice. You should try it.

I already answered the question myself in the comment you quoted. Go back and read it.

Chrisrare:
If Jesus is real, you won't be creating threads to tell us Jesus is real.. You don't see anyone creating threads to tell us gravity is real. When something is fake/imaginary, you spend a lot of time and effort trying to convince people that it's real.

How did you come to know that gravity is real? By reading many books and having a demonstration.

How do I know Jesus is real? By reading many books which many would never read, and by having numerous demonstrations which many would never do.

This thread is an opportunity for you to read something about Jesus because you've never done. You've been reading the wrong books for sure. Did you watch the video? The video is an opportunity for you to witness a demonstration which you've never witnessed.

Matheusmartin:
...
Is it ironical that the same people supporting and hailing Russia for invading a sovereign nation even without prior provocation are exactly the same people criticizing Israel for retaliation after the October 7th attack.

The agenda is clearly against America,and by extension her allies..

Isn't that already too obvious?