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Politics › Re: Max Gbanite And CBN Governor Sanusi On Channels TV - Live by goggs(m): 10:42am On Jan 12, 2012

Boboribo:
He speaking of the ideal situation while conveniently forgetting that he is in alliance thieving politicians.

So the system should collapse, abi?

Politics › Re: Max Gbanite And CBN Governor Sanusi On Channels TV - Live by goggs(m): 10:39am On Jan 12, 2012

Naija people a few months back were hailing this man for being bold, today he is vilified for speaking his mind!

His position is simple "we cannot continue to be father Christmas, our children will be in debt" I think his opinion is economically sound. Its the political process of the subsidy removal that is hurting Nigerians (corruption, wastages etc)

Politics › Re: Max Gbanite And CBN Governor Sanusi On Channels TV - Live by goggs(m): 10:35am On Jan 12, 2012

that stuff on his ear (head piece) is about to fall off so he got to keep his head at the odd angle. It makes him look like an accused in the dock

Politics › Re: Boko Haram's Leader Abubakar Shekau Defends Attacks On Christians by goggs(m): 4:02am On Jan 12, 2012

instead of insulting ourselves here we better add insecurity to our lists of demands for this strike.

this boko haram man looks like he means business. when his AK47 begins talking, his bullets wouldn't ask first whether you are a norterner, southerner, Muslim, Christian, ifa or sango, or witch or wizard

Islam › Re: Questions For Muslims: For Those Who Want To Know by goggs(m): 3:30am On Jan 12, 2012

was about to go to bed when i came across your reply.

well to still catch my beauty sleep, I will be brief:

(i) You don't expect people to ask questions and not challenge your answer. We are all learning, right? You might also learn a few things.

(ii)

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel [/b]in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write.

The Hadith says Waraqa wrote FROM the Gospel to Arabic, it proved that there were the scriptures in Arabic at the time (what are the scriptures? Do they not consists of the Gospel of Christ?) Also, as a matter of conjecture, Waraqa was literate, who travelled out and converted to Christianity would have had the gospels with him. The Hadith records he was translating them.

What makes it impossible for him NOT to have shared his beliefs with Khadijah? He most likely had cos she identified him as a person WHO could comment on the visions her husband was having.

Also, consider the verse: Jonah (Yunus) 10:94, Late Meccan. "[b]If you (Muhammad) are in doubt regarding that which We have revealed to thee, ASK those who READ the book from before you, "
In this verse, Prophet Mohammed was asked to be read to from the Gospel. Since he was an Illiterate, the gospel would have been read in Arabic.

So, it is clear that there were the gospels and Torah in Pre-Islamic Mecca and Prophet Mohammed must have heard these from; (a) being a merchant in his early years, (b) from his secretaries as Sahih Bukhari 4.56.814 reveals (A Christian who converted to Islam wrote Muhammad's revelations; then he reverted back to Christianity and claimed that Muhammad knew nothing and he wrote the Quran for Muhammad), and (c) the Jews of Medina/Arabia since they were there two centuries before the establishment of Islam.

(iii) As per the brothers of Jesus, yes indeed, in Mark 3:31 and Matthew 13:55 - Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?. It had completely skipped me. As for the video link and my subsequent searches, its still not a definitive find though still intriguing non the less.

(iv) On the authorship of the New testament, the position of the Christians is clear, these were written by men inspired by God. Some give account of the life of Christ, others (the Epistles) are letters from early apostles to churches. the authorship of these books and letters and to whom, were known and kept by the Church for centuries. The Christianity has ALWAYS welcomed inquiries (positive or negative) into all aspects of its faith and this is ongoing as proofs strengthens faith. The Holy lands are kept open and busy for archaeologist seeking for clues. Many of which confirm the position of the Bible (eg the dead sea scrolls, Herod's artificial). It is obvious that researchers will reserve concurrence until they have definitive proofs. As proved by recent archaeological finds, these proofs are coming in one at a time. http://biblicalstudies.info/top10/schoville.htm

Therefore to say "No one actually knows the names of the authors of these gospels" is incorrect. As your wikipedia sources say "according to early church fathers" or "early Christian tradition". The names are known but researchers want definitive proofs and as with the confirmation of the Old Testament they will get it. As you can see that Wikipedia editors were not exactly flattering on the origin of the Quran and its authenticity and authorship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_koran

Also, don't forget that places like Damascus, Syria; Antioch; Alexandria, Egypt; Anatolia, Turkey; Persia, Iran and Yemen were strong Christian centers until the brutal Muslim conquests of 630 - 750 causing the whole sale destruction of libraries and important learning Centres. It was obvious that a substantial treasure trove of history were destroyed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests

Islam › Re: Questions For Muslims: For Those Who Want To Know by goggs(m): 10:55pm On Jan 11, 2012

tbaba1234:
All holy books have the same source. As muslims, we believe that the torah was revealed to moses, gospel to Jesus and they are all from the same source and they have the same message.

May I say that most of your assertions here are not correct. They are not supported by historical facts but by conjuncture. Please permit me to elaborate.

First, I must say that beliefs may NOT necessarily be facts. So when you say Muslims BELIEVE that the gospels were revealed to Jesus, you may be right that it is what Muslims believe but it doesn't make true. The Qur'an says the New Testament is a book given to Jesus (Qur'an 5.46). However, in reality, it consists of books written by Jesus' followers. Its not organised in "the Gospel according to Jesus" but "The Gospel According to Mark" and so on. In fact you earlier alluded to that in your post by saying, What we have now are pieces of it in the gospels according to Mark, Mathew, Luke and John ,

So since you wrote one thing and believe another, I can say what you BELIEVE is at variance with what you KNOW and what IS. Needles to say that they do not contain the same message.

Christianity has pacifism as its core principle, this is not the same as in the Koran or the Torah. For eg the Bible says forgive your enemies and pray for those who prosecute you; Love your neighbour as yourself; Blessed are the meek. These are themes found in the Bible. The message in the Koran is different.

The Quran tells us that it has come as a confirmation of earlier scriptures, It also tells us that other scriptures have suffered corruption by men and promises that this book will be guarded from corruption. The Quran confirms the truth in the revelations before.

If the scripture is corrupted, it presupposes that it was corrupted from an earlier one more authentic. We are not given a clue. Instead archaeological finds in the middle east about the bible continues to authenticate its reliability, from Syria to Damascus, Egypt to Jerusalem (just google archaeology and the bible).

The most recent important find is the Old Testament (except the Book of Ester) of the Dead Sea Scrolls. These Books were dated to have been written 100 B.C. to 68 C.E./A.D and hidden in the caves A.D. 66-70 (Please Google). They have confirmed what has been written in the Bible all these while. so, how could come they were corrupted? by whom? at least who said so? what of the original ones?

The central theme of the Koran and the Bible are not the same so one cannot confirm the other. At least the Bible would say so.

The Quran states:

And now that a Messenger has come unto them from Allah confirming the Truth in what they have, a party among those who were given the Scripture before, cast the Scripture of Allah (the Torah and the Gospel) behind their backs as if they know not. (Q 2:101)

Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: This is from God,'to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to
them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (Qur'an 2:79)

The Bible didnt mention the Koran or the Prophet. So it is not the Bible was written about obviously. If the Bible was to predict what was coming (The Prophet of the Quran), it would say so and men like Waraqa (whom we shall talk about later) would have given the Prophet the authentic Gospel. Since the then Christians didnt know Prophet Mohammed, they couldnt have hidden the true Gospel before his revelation. infact they would have waited for the promised one so eagerly.

In matters of faith, do you corrupt passages to deny the divinity of one you do not even know? Even when YOUR ETERNITY is at stake?

The message of Jesus had ceased to exist as an authoritative message by the time the Quran is revealed. What we have now are pieces of it in the gospels according to Mark, Mathew, Luke and John, (No one actually knows the names of the authors of these gospels).

According to the Jews, the torah is attributed to a 5-volume book constituting the scripture for people of the Jewish faith. It is a Jewish belief that the Torah is what was revealed to Moses during the course of his journey from Egypt to Jerusalem.

How can the message of peace and love for all mankind cease to be authoritative? Where was it written so? To be replaced by?

for want of time and space please go to http://www.basic-bible-knowledge.com/who-wrote-the-new-testament.html for more on this. If you have read the Bible before, you will see the authorship of each book at the introduction. infact in several new testament books, the authors refer to themselves in the messages of hope, encouragement and love they wish to to convey,

Nonetheless, it is contended even by the most Ardent but pragmatic followers of the Jewish faith, that the Book revealed to Moses is lost. The Old Testament was revised and edited in approximately 500BC after Cyrus the Great liberated the Jews from Babylon.

This rendition was a compilation of at least 12 different manuscripts written by various priests of the time, and was laced with myths absorbed from Mesopotamian regions. The foremost example of this is the name of God Himself. God is addressed by different names that seem to be used in a progressive fashion throughout the Torah. For instance, within Genesis alone, we observe the name of God as Elohim that is derived from the Babylonian El, and later this name changes to YHWH, and then YHWH Elohim, inspired by Ya or Iya of Edomite origin.

A simple illustration can be found in Deutronomy 34, that talks about Moses death

5 And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said.
6 He buried him[a] in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is.
7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone.

Did moses write about his death and burial? who wrote the the other verses?

I would have loved to see the sources of your sweeping statements on the old testament cos it easy to make them. Your assertion the book of moses was lost, and revised and all that is just statements hence it would not serve any purpose to reply, really. For the education of us all and to make this worthy, back this up with references cos you were not there

As regards Elohim and YHWH, please do google them to learn more. YHWH is the name of God transcribed into the Roman letters. Elohim is the word "God" in Hebrew. Unlike in Islam, since Biblical times God is referred to in indigenous languages because its all about a relationship we have. Christianity is all about PERSONAL relationship with God (as religion should be, PERSONAL), so you can call on him in your language to pray and worship whether you say Oluwa, or Ubanjigi (hope I got that right) or Chukwu. For example, Jesus referred to God as ''Abba, Father". Its a loving bond that defines the relationship, and communication with God not based on a language (such as Arabic) or a fixed method of prayer.

The gospel of Jesus came to confirm the truth of the Torah and the Quran came to confirm the truth in all previous revelations. The Quran has remained the same for more than 1400 years and God has promised to protect it from corruption. None of the revelations were copied.

On whether the Quran was copied? That is impossible for the following reasons.

1. There was an absence of historical Syriac-Christian works prevalent in Mecca at that period.

2.The prophet was an illiterate who could neither read or write.

3. The Quran corrected historical inaccuracies in the old testament. (i can give examples if you want) .

There were no lies before the truth, The truth was distorted by men.

(1) Please find out about Ibn Qumta in Sahih Bukhari 4.56.814 (A Christian who converted to Islam wrote Muhammad's revelations; then he reverted back to Christianity and claimed that Muhammad knew nothing and he wrote the Quran for Muhammad);

Khadija (Prophet Mohammed's Wife) had cousin brother Waraqa was first a Jew, then converted to Christianity. He became a devout Christian and reportedly translated the Gospel in his version of Arabic. His profound knowledge and understanding of the mainstream Christianity, as well as Judaism. Sahih Bukhari 4.55.605 (T[i]he Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqa bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the Gospels in Arabic Waraqa asked (the Prophet), "What do you see?" When he told him, Waraqa said, "That is the same angel whom Allah sent to the Prophet) Moses. Should I live till you receive the Divine Message, I will support you strongly."[/i]

You can read further Sahih Bukhar 6.60.478, 1.1.3 on the same subject matter. Google it.

So you see your assertion that there were "no historical Syriac-Christian works prevalent in Mecca at that period" is false.

(2) The above passages from Sahih Bukhari makes this assertion baseless, really

(3) Since there are no specifics, i will assume that this is a generalized statement. The only way to say authoritatively the gospels were corrupted will be to prove it. Its just not enough to say so. the statement must stand scrutiny. its like saying a person cheated but can't say how, why, when. The burden of proof is on the accuser.

A study of early Christianity for instance shows that there were different ideologies about Jesus by the early christians. Jesus's brother James and Jude saw him as a servant of God, that view was controversial to christian leaders at the time because the roman empire had adopted Paul's view of Jesus. Paul, a man who never met Jesus. Up till today, the epistle of james is omitted from Bible.

How you arrived at this conclusion is not stated. So again, I have to treat it as a sweeping statement that serves no useful purpose. Just for noting, the Bible had no record of Jesus' brother(s). Unless you meant 'Christian Brothers" So how you reach that conclusion, I don't know. It would be nice to back up your claims so that the discussion could be beneficial to all

I have no perception of any other religion. The Quran states:

1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Truth stands out from falsehood, Anyone who has done a honest study of Islam will know, it is the truth.

In islam, everything you do has a spiritual angle. Everything you do is to gain the pleasure of God. Therefore, you stay away from corruption in the work place, you meet your brother with a smiling face, you pick up dangerous objects from the street seeking only God's pleasure. Even a smile is charity, putting a morsel of food in your wife's mouth is charity,

The prophet(SAW) said "When a Husband And Wife Look at Each Other With LOVE,,,ALLAH Looks at Both With Mercy" [Bukhari 6:19 & Tirmidhi 14:79]

In islam, You are always God conscious, at least you should be.

Praying 5 times a day for me helps me maintain that God consciousness. So there is an objective and subjective angle to spirituality in islam.

I hope this answers the questions,

No doubt you are a devout Muslim. I would suggest you have just a rudimentary understanding of religions around you. It will help you appreciate were they are coming from and clear some false stereotypes about other religions.

For me I have studied Islam beyond the rudimentary level and that has help me appreciate Muslims, their manners,dogma, reasons and preferences. My relationship with Muslims has improved tremendously for the better as a result even though I may not agree with Islam.

Christianity Etc › Re: Proof Of Plagiarism In The Christian New Testament From The Jewish Old Testament by goggs(m): 8:15pm On Jan 11, 2012

i laugh in ijebu grin

How can two authors describing an event and one subject quoting a scripture before him be plagiarism? Some of the alleged "plagiarism" state clearly it is written or it is said

Infact, please Google for the term PLAGIARISM and look at the contextual definition of the word. Look at the exemptions and scope.

Kai LagosShia, I never believed I would say this (which is not in my character but you had it coming) you have a very low IQ

grin

Politics › Re: Violence In Minna, Ibb's Campaign Offices Burnt Down? by goggs(m): 1:05pm On Jan 11, 2012

confirmed from a friend in minna, mayhem across the city. police and military helicopters deployed, extra police called in, several structures on fire.

violence attributed to the Governor's careless comments yesterday

Christianity Etc › Re: Giant Jesus Statue Hit By Lightning In Ohio by goggs(m): 11:46am On Jan 11, 2012

what is so spectacular about lightening hitting an object moreso a tall one?

are you superstitious? don't be. its a natural phenomenum

Politics › Re: “No Work No Pay” – Fgn To Civil Servants by goggs(m): 11:15am On Jan 11, 2012

tunnytox:
Without any personal bias (as I'm no GEJ fan) the strike is illegal as there's no trade dispute between the FG and it's workers. The workers can only embark on strike on matters that affect their wages, working condition or pension and not on general govt policy.
I personally believes that many Nigerians will not have object to the removal of the subsidy if the govt ( both executive and legislative) has led by example by cutting their bloated salaries and allowances, it's only in Nigeria that you have a minister and a minister of state doing virtually the same job. If the govt can prove to Nigerians that they are truly ready to stamp out corruption and reduce the cost of governance I believe Nigerians will be able to trust them enough to accept the removal of the fuel subsidy.

I can't agree more.

technically Labour is not disputing labour issues and second, disobeying a court order sets a bad president. it weakens labour morally in future when it needs the courts for protection.

on the other hand labour provide a more structured avenue for protest. if labour had not been involved it would be an extremely chaotic protest that will more deadly and difficult to control. infact it would be more of riots reminesent of the last election riots

Politics › Re: Oyo State Govt Declares 7pm To 7am Curfew With Immediate Effect by goggs(m): 6:58pm On Jan 10, 2012

not even one person should be molested because of the protest. so the curfew is in order!

protest during the day and go to your homes at night. only masquerades come out at night grin

Politics › Re: We Didn't Bomb Madalla Church - Boko Haram by goggs(m): 3:31pm On Jan 10, 2012

this statement from "boko haram" is pure bunkum! my assertion is based on the following;

(1) boko haram has been divided into factions. remember one faction met with OBJ and the another faction murdered the representatives;

(2) one faction says its fighting the security forces for the murder of its leaders, another says all northern Nigeria must be islamised;

(3) with all these murders one Abu Qaqa is the spokesman and he calls NUJ secretariat to make claims. why is this one different;

(4) Its interesting that with all this killing and calling out God is great, few Islamic leaders have come out to condemn the violence. nothing prevents them from quoting verses to counter this sick killing.

I think its utter fallacy to assume that a ''denial'' from boko haram means that Christians are the ones organising this killing as some juveniles are assuming. its never a Christian antecedent to attack a church (for that matter) for what ever reason - history supports on this assertion - and to achieve what? to support GEJ ? or to weaken his government. to start a civil war? when there are millions of indigenous Christians from sokoto to Taraba, kwara to borno. that position make no sense.

I think many just didn't expect the militant response from CAN leadership who were ready to organise other Christians to defend themselves. It was obvious that there is change from the 80's and 90's when churches will be burnt and people killed and life will go on

Politics › Re: PHCN Divided And Liquidated By FG by goggs(m): 4:55pm On Jan 09, 2012

talknafree:
You people commending GEJ on this are all BUNCH OF F*OO*OO*OOLS!!!
This is long overdue.
Billions of dollars have been put into that ministry and parastatal without anything to show for it.
GEJ has been in power now since 1 1/2 years and he is just thinking towards this line? It is such a shame for people who think he has done something spectacular.

Nigerians these things are you RIGHT! Don't ever let any government think they are doing you a favour in providing basic amenities to you.

These are what they promised you in exchange of your vote.

Wake up F*ools!!!

dude have you forgotten the running battle with the unions to get to this stage? you think they don't need time to set up the successor companies, verify staff, pass enabling laws, set up parastatals to regulate the industry etc you think this is a Hollywood flick where things like that happen on the drop of a hat. where were you when the unions resisted the reforms, shut down power and chased officials from the stations even when they were told there will no job loses and they were paid.

while I am not in support of the manner the subsidy stuff was handled this one by GEJ and bart represents real change and I think nigerians should acknowledge change in the right direction. pessimism is a terrible thing

Politics › Re: 2 Protesters Shot Dead By Police In Kano? by goggs(m): 12:39pm On Jan 09, 2012

its clear that the police will have to take action if protesters try to force people to join them, commit arson, assault the police or anybody, block public roads or harass people or attach pubic property.

some people do not understand the fundamentals of public protest. they assume its a license to harass people , block roads and throw stones. anybody that does that should be arrested and prosecuted. period

Politics › Re: 2 Protesters Shot Dead By Police In Kano? by goggs(m): 12:28pm On Jan 09, 2012

under what circumstances did the people die? were they in a fracas with the police?

today I watched dissapiontingly as a protester was trying to set fire to some wood on the road, a policeman tried to stop him in a civilised manner the protester started insulting the police pushing him on the chest reaching for his gun. I feared the worst. fortunately there were no other police nearby and the lone police man backed away as more angry people gathered round him.

I wish all (protester s and police) will behave themselves

Politics › Re: Kaduna Police Using Force Against Subsidy Protesters? by goggs(m): 2:20pm On Jan 08, 2012

force will only worsen the situation. however I expect that protesters and police should respect themselves as the security situation in kaduna demands that.

until I get facts from the ground I wouldn't believe this story. in this fuel subsidy battle both sides have resorted to lies so often so one has to be circumspect

Politics › Re: Subsidy Removal: Nigerians Made A Mistake Not Electing Buhari – El-Rufai by goggs(m): 1:55pm On Jan 08, 2012

I used to be an El Rufai fan. I think he lost it on the answer for the boko haram question. instead of condemning the violence he is making excuses for the group. just like GEJ on the independence bomb blast he is absolving boko haram as if they denied any of the bombing and killing of innocent people! They didn't! they gleefully claimed responsibility. what? is elRufai part of them to know which target is theirs and which isn't?

what of the news that boko haram has split into groups? if wearing jeans will get them through check points to bomb wouldnt they? even when they say boko haram are they not using bombs and AK 47 rifles, using email, telephones? how much more of jeans to carry out their heinous crimes

what is key is that Islam is used in propagation of violence and I expected El Rufai to condemn it as he would any other violence by anyone else and not make excuses.

The silly man has exposed his bias. through out two weeks ago, all columnist in thisday newspapers were focusing on solutions to boko haram and fuel subsidy burning issues of violencethe day, El Rufai was behaving as if he wasn't in this country with his columns .

its in time of crisis that real men stand up to be counted, unfortunately El Rufai is not one of them. He no longer has my attention.

Christianity Etc › Re: The Bible And How God Himself "deceived" His People And Led Them "Astray"! by goggs(m): 11:21pm On Jan 06, 2012

LagosShia:
argument!argument!!argument!!!

that is the trademark of Judek.no need to make it look a personal contest sending insults.

"there is enough light for those who want to see"-Imam Ali (as).

when you go dumb and make silly comments and start silly thread,always expect strong swift replies with crushing blows to christianity.when you turn it into personal argument,you'd be laughed at for as long as the falsehood of christianity is exposed and the truth of islam is revealed.tor chikena!

See LagosShia complaining of insults. Hahaha! See kettle calling the pot black. like Jesus said remove the log from your eyes before talking about the speck in someone else's grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Are Our Christian Leaders Quiet On This Fuel Subsidy Issue? by goggs(m): 11:04pm On Jan 06, 2012

Just Google Bishop hassan kukah+fuel subsidy under the news section. also try onayakan. and other major pastors. when you get your answer you'll know their stand. tongue

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Are Our Christian Leaders Quiet On This Fuel Subsidy Issue? by goggs(m): 11:03pm On Jan 06, 2012

Just Google Bishop hassan kukah+fuel subsidy under the news section. also try onayakan. and other major pastors. when you get your answer you'll know their stand. tongue

Politics › Re: Fuel Price Vs. Minimum Wage In Opec Countries Inc. Nigeria by goggs(m): 3:49pm On Jan 06, 2012

oradee:
@ gogs

and what is the maximum wage for all their govt officials?

Ol boy, are these leaders even democratic? they own their countries oh! shocked

Seriously, I am not supporting any debate here, (my stand on the subsidy debate is stated above) but my point is that when we try to put forward our points it should be based on the truth. Already the untrue statistics is making rounds in the social media and been used on placards during the protests. It taints us as a people. imagine Kuwaitis, Qataris, Algerians etc watching Nigerians on TV stating untrue things about them to advance their arguments!

Politics › Re: Fuel Price Vs. Minimum Wage In Opec Countries Inc. Nigeria by goggs(m): 3:12pm On Jan 06, 2012

Quote from: Kashif on Today at 10:39:02 AM
Misinformation! The minimum wages listed above are misleading, even though I agree that it is tough for the masses to cope with the current price of pms in Nigeria.

explain how they r misleading.
Quote from: dasa on Today at 10:39:55 AM
Did this research take national population into account? so many other things have to be considered.

So many things like war abi? (Iraq and Libya)
Population is insignificant in this issue. Take for example USA (pop. 300million) consumes more fuel that China (pop. 1.9 Billion) and India (pop. 1 billion), its the size of the economy that matters.

Quote from: LeoMax on Today at 10:50:29 AM
The Statistics is wrong !!!

Oga post your own make we see, dont just say its wrong prove it.

Quote from: AjanleKoko on Today at 10:49:28 AM
Actually the population only makes the picture better for Nigerians. If a 160-million strong nation continues to produce and sell fuel for very cheap, it makes us stronger internally. We could produce cheaply for local consumption, and weaken the case for influx of foreign goods.

U r totally on point.

I wonder how Africans can't see that this selfish need by IMF to save the failing economy in Europe, else why the rush to force all African countries to remove subsidy of PMS. I hope people remember not too long ago the tussle between AU and EU on agricultural subsidy, thank God say Obasanjo na stubborn man we for hear am.

This is serious

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LeoMax:
The Statistics is wrong !!!

Lets get this clear, I am not in support of the way the fuel subsidy was removed. I think that the government had better options (eg cutting waste first starting with the N1billion food bill etc). But that doesn't mean that Nigerians should be MISLED by ANY side.

I went in search of the facts and found that some of the minimum wages listed here are wrong and misleading. Check out;

(i) Saudi Arabia has no minimum wage

By royal decree, an eight-hour day and 48-hour week are standard. It is reported that domestic workers labor up to 20 hours a day, seven days a week. Labor regulations require protection from hazard and disease for employees except farmers, herdsmen, domestic servants, and family-operated business employees. Labor outdoors is prohibited when the temperature exceeds 50°c (122°f). Foreign workers report that these regulations are seldom enforced. With the consent of parents, children may work as young as 13, and children rarely work in Saudi Arabia outside of family businesses. There is no minimum wage.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Saudi_Arabia.aspx

(ii) Venezeula's minimum wage is N54,000 ($360) and not N95,639

Venezuela's minimum wage will rise by more than 25%, President Hugo Chavez has announced.
Workers will get a 15% increase from 1 May, and then a 10% rise in September bringing the monthly[b] salary to the equivalent of $360 (£220).[/b]
Some sectors had asked for a much bigger rise with inflation rate at 27%.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13194440

(iii) Kuwaiti minimum wage is N70,400 ($440) not N161,461

On February 21, 2008, the parliament approved a 120 dinar ($440) monthly pay rise for nationals in the public and private sectors after inflation hit 7.3%, a 15-year high

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwaiti_minimum_wage

(iv) Iran's minimum wage is N48,480 ($303) not N86,585

Iran's Minimum Wage is the lowest amount a worker can be legally paid for his work. Most countries have a nation-wide minimum wage that all workers must be paid.
Iran's minimum wage is 3,030,480 Iranian rials per month[b] (approximately US $ 303 per month)[/b]

(v) Qatar's minimum wage is Nil (No minimum wage) so the figure of N101,250 is wrong

While Qatar's labor law provides the emir with authority to set a minimum wage, no minimum wage rate has ever been set. Qatar's minimum wage was last changed in N/A

http://www.minimum-wage.org/international/en/Qatar

(vi) Algerian minimum wage is 18,000 DA ($237) - N37,000 and not N55,957

The minimum wage in Algeria is 15,000 Algerian dinars per month for all workers, nationally Algeria's minimum wage was last changed in 2009

http://www.minimum-wage.org/international/en/Algeria

S[b]tarting in January 2012, the current wage of 15,000 DA will increase to 18,000[/b]. The tripartite meeting of the Algerian government, the General Union of Algerian Workers (UGTA) and employers approved the measure announced Friday (September 30th) by Algerian Prime Minister Ahmed Ouyahia.

http://magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/features/2011/10/05/feature-04

(vii) Minimum wage in Libya is $118 per month which is N19,000 and not N23,183

Minimum wage150 LYD per month ($118)Average wageThe average monthly gross earnings is LYD 190.

http://www.emporikitrade.com/uk/countries-trading-profiles/libya/labour-market

In times of conflict, the truth is usually the first casualty. What is best for Nigerians at this time is the TRUTH from all sides so that we can take an informed decision for the better

Politics › Re: 1600 Buses To Be Deployed Nation Wide by goggs(m): 10:35pm On Jan 04, 2012

This is analysis done by Prof. Tam David-West, former minister of petroleum on actual cost of producing petrol in Nigeria.
1) One barrel of Crude oil =
42gallons or
159 litres
, 2) Our Refineries (i.e 4) Installed
(combined) capacity = 445,000
, barrels per day
3) Actual refineries capacity due
to
ageing equipment = 30% i.e.
133,500
barrels per day
.
4) . . 133,500 barrels = 21.2 million
litres
5) Local required consumption
(F.O.S) =
12millions litres
6) It means that even our
MORIBOND
refineries can actually meet our
local
consumption need of petroleum.
7) The cost structure of crude oil
(i.e.
Qua Iboe Crude Oil) production;
- Findings / development - $3.5
- Production cost - $1.5
- Refining Cost - $12.6
- Pipeline/ transportation - $1.5
- Distr/bridging fund Margin -$
15.69
True cost of one litre of
petroleum
anywhere in Nigeria;
- Total sum cost = $34.8
- 1ltr cost = $34.8/159 litres = $
0.219
- Naira equiv. 0.219xN160=
N35.02k
- Add Tax N5 + N35.02 = N40.02
9) Let FGN refute the above
composition
and if not, they should tell us how
they came about N65/litre.
10) Locally refined products
cannot be
sold at International price.
11) We really do not need FGN
SUBSIDY
as there was NONE in the first
place.
12) What is LACKING, is the WILL to
enforce LAW ON CORRUPTION.
Pls re-post until it gets to the right
quarters for their response;
We still stand a chance as a
COUNTRY.

While I am totally against the removal of fuel subsidy for now (due to the poor socio economic situation of Nigerians), I think that people who should know better should tell us the true picture of things so that the public is not manipulated.

The Prof conveniently forgot that NNPC buys 445,000 per day from the nation's crude at International Prices and remits that money to the Federation Account (remember the accusation that NNPC is owing the Fed Acct). So his computation is based on wrong premise. If NNPC got the crude free, it means the subsidy will be much more as the nation will be supplying its citizen free crude to the quatum of about 25% of daily production (and we will only pay for developing and refining). What he should come out to say is that the Government should INCREASE subsidy or allocate crude to NNPC free to either refine or swap for refined fuel (which is basically the same). All these computation is misleading the public as to the true position of things.

However, I do agree with the Prof that the amount of fuel brandished about as consumption per day is on the high side and this is one important way that subsidy payments are being lost. I dont believe that we consume up to 30 million litres. A forensic analysis is needed to identify how, where and who are responsible for these leakages and punish them severely (assuming GEJ has the liver)

Also, 1600 buses for a country of 150 million is a sick joke suitable for Comedy Central channel. Only Lagos will swallow this number and ask for more.[/font]

Christianity Etc › Re: Muslims Enraged By Call For A "Friendly Islam" On Christian Bumper Sticker by goggs(m): 8:09pm On Jan 03, 2012

A lesson in tolerance!

Islam › Re: Muhammad Would Never Approve Of Torture by goggs(m): 5:39pm On Jan 03, 2012

I havecome to the conclusion that LagosShia is not worthy to debate with. he resorts so easily to insults. the worst is that he knows SO little of the holy book he professes. For the bible he imagines flaws that in his haste doesn't read to comprehend. Arguing with him is a waste of time. I was warned, didn't listen, now I know

Looking forward to a REAL debate with a worthy opponent!
cool

Politics › Re: Death toll rises to 4 in Blast Near Mosque In Maiduguri After Friday Prayers by goggs(m): 9:06am On Dec 31, 2011

boko haram claims responsibility for the bombing. www.thisdaylive.com

Politics › Re: Ghana Cuts Fuel Subsidies, Fuel Rises To N184 Per Litre by goggs(m): 4:33pm On Dec 30, 2011

I experienced all these reading through this thread!!!!!!

Christianity Etc › Re: Muslim Convert Who Threatened A State Senator,attacks Police Officer, Shot Dead by goggs(m): 3:04pm On Dec 30, 2011

LagosShia:

ignorant boy! first of all the word used for what you call mosque is "masjid"."masjid" means a place for prostration and we are told the entire earth is our masjid.there is nothing like yoruba or hausa mosque.there is even nothing like shia or sunni mosque.that is why you see Shia Muslims going on pilgrimage to saudi arabia,the headquarters of wahhabism and praying.you dont have to lead others in prayers.you can lead yourself and lead those who want to be led.most often you can pray on your own and no one will talk to you.we muslims are not like christians who cannot pray without attending sunday service led by boy lovers!!!

in nigeria,you dont see whites in church because nigeria is african and black.

Well you say there is nothing like Yoruba Mosque. Let me let Muslims themselves describe and show Yoruba Mosque;

http://www.cci.uct.ac.za/resources/photos/ - Center for contemporary Islam - Sunni Mosque and Yoruba Mosque (scroll down)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1369341&page=2 - Yoruba Mosque

http://alfatihulquareeb.org/branches.html Al-Fati-Ul Quareeb Islamic Society of Nigeria - plenty addresses for Yoruba Mosque

http://www.metroadvisorygroup.com/mrb/index.php/2011-10-11-11-37-39?id=17 - Metro Realty and Brokers - Yoruba Mosque Development

Get it?

NEXT EXCUSE please,

Shia Muslims going on pilgrimage to saudi arabia,the headquarters of wahhabism

And you think that Israel refuses visas for Christian pilgrimage?

most often you can pray on your own and no one will talk to you

And Christians don't pray on there own?

we muslims are not like christians who cannot pray without attending sunday service

Better read your Koran and Hadith on the proper forms of Friday prayers, else I will help you by quoting the correct procedure here oh. prayers are led my guy

service led by boy lovers!!!

Yes some priest of the Catholic Church did some horrible things. We shall make sure that it is exposed, We will not hide wrong doing. We shall admit it, identify the culprits and uproot it from our mist and importantly, punish the offenders and offer support to the victims.

Christianity Etc › Re: Muslim Convert Who Threatened A State Senator,attacks Police Officer, Shot Dead by goggs(m): 2:43pm On Dec 30, 2011

LagosShia:
you are wrong.it is the aftermath of long years of intoxication with pagan christianity and the humiliation of racism that send them begging to join Islam.Islam is their refuge.

Yea right, It was her refuge till she got consumed by hate - and died. Tragic

Christianity Etc › Re: The Ridicule Of Muslim Apologetics by goggs(m): 2:36pm On Dec 30, 2011

aside from being dumb i must commend you for being very funny and putting a smile on my face.

here comes the insults again. shocked

You must be a really interesting fellow to insult those you debate with. Its not that I am concerned, but it leads to be to an interesting preposition; Are you like that? Any way

.have you ever heard people calling someone a "poor soul"? have you ever heard humans saying "dont kill an innocent soul"? so what the Quran refers to there with the word "soul" is figurative referrring to the complete human being and not to the spirit alone. it has nothing to do with the killing of the human soul or its destruction in spiritual form which God alone can do as even in Islam we believe that death is the separation of body and soul and the soul will continue living thereafter while the body decays

The phrase "poor soul" is a phrase first used by Shakespeare from his Sonnet 146. It later entered English lexicon. In any academic work or serious discussion, the use of the words soul and body are NOT synonymous. In fact poor soul and innocent soul is informal English.

so until you can give me an example from the time of Prophet Mohammed (when the Koran was revealed) where SOUL is same as human body, sorry, I am not buying that. Cos that will be making excuses. Muslims believe the Koran is whole and its message clear.

even in Islam we believe that death is the separation of body and soul and the soul will continue living thereafter while the body decays

You just unwittingly confirmed what I have been saying all these while. A HUMAN CAN't kill a SOUL. So the verse prohibiting the killing of an innocent SOUL is not for MUSLIMS! How can they be prohibited from killing what they can't kill?

Its like telling me - dude, don't kill an angel: Its a command. Hey, I cant kill an angel, so the command isn't for me in the first place!

Get it?

Christianity Etc › Re: Muslim Convert Who Threatened A State Senator,attacks Police Officer, Shot Dead by goggs(m): 2:07pm On Dec 30, 2011

LagosShia:

ofcourse i did!

why would she not embrace Islam?you think any black man would be happy with being seated at the back row while the front rows in the church are reserved for the whites?

she will definitely embrace Islam.may Almighty God have mercy on her soul.they may have even killed her deliberately to revenge for the letters she sent them.that is what christianity teaches them:exploit,hate and kill black people.

Show me a Church that asks blacks to seat at the back?

But assuming you are a Yoruba Muslim, go to Kano Central mosque and ask to lead prayers and see if you will be allowed! Infact try to be the Chief Imam of the National Mosque and see if you will get it.

Why are there Yoruba Mosque all over the north?

Christianity has passed that stage.

See, I have gone past you and moved on. Continue wallowing in the past dude. When you are ready to reform, meet me up there! grin

Christianity Etc › Re: Muslim Convert Who Threatened A State Senator,attacks Police Officer, Shot Dead by goggs(m): 2:00pm On Dec 30, 2011

frosbel:
He will soon say I am you, after all the hammering of his lies , he has started to hallucinate . haha

See my post above shocked

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