₦airaland Forum

Zahra29:
J D Vance had to row back quickly after running his mouth yet again and trying to diss the UK as some random country that hasn't fought a war in 30 or 40 years.

I guess he forgot when the US begged asked the UK to back them in the war against Iraq and Afghanistan after they came under attack on 9/11, and we and many other EU countries joined their fight and lost thousands of soldiers in the process. It also marked the beginning of the end of Blair's premiership.

And Vance was going on about disrespect last week. Silly.

That guy is a kid, imagine him saying he didn’t mention the name of any country as a silly defence. It’s not even two months, these kids in the oval office are just pooing all over the place.

LoverOfEvil:
When you release a list of 39 players is it possible not to accommodate everyone?

We’ve seen 40 man list in the past and we know how it was 😂

LoverOfEvil:
Provisional list
Wait till they remove some names

At least he almost accommodated everyone's feelings for now

Looks like the new coach is also on nairaland 😂 cos he has almost satisfied all the gladiators here, Una well done here o

Lexusgs430:
The type our political elites are operating in Nigeria..... 😁😂🇳🇬

be careful what you wish for!

Once states allocation is distributed, the dollar goes up!

Gerrard59:
The thing don become like Russian juju o

e choke abi! 😂

Mccollins042:
Common sense! Trump is trying to weaken china by getting Russia on their side

😂 so much for conspiracy theories

Zahra29:
💯

Despise is the correct word.

Most people have forgotten that Trump's beef with Z started back in 2019 when he tried to coerce Z into investigating Biden in order to find dirt that would damage Biden's 2020 campaign.

Z refused to play ball. Trump retaliated by blocking Congress approved aid to Ukraine before being forced to do a U turn when a whistleblower exposed the sordid going-ons. The rest is history - Trump was eventually impeached and Biden won the election.

I doubt Trump has forgotten or forgiven this.

Of course, he doesn't like Z guy and looks irritated with his presence from the moment he welcomed him outside the oval office. All the talk about his dressing was just evidence of how disgusted he is with him, and he can't even hide it. Even have little respect for the country and people of Ukraine- none at all! This idea that he is a man who likes to say it how it is and how he feels is nothing but foolishness. There is a quote from Proverbs in the Bible that says 'Only a fool utters all his mind! and another quote from the same proverbs says Discretion shall preserve you! Discretion is far and running away from this Baba!

Jamesclooney:
Donald Trump is showing everyone democracy is overrated.

Apart from democracy, what other safer options are available?

jedisco:
Hehe.. Lets take emotions out of this. Ukraine needs the U.S.

It was already clear Z wasn't in Trumps good books. He knew that.
No world leader today comes close to Trumps media mastery. Z whose first language isn't English was meeting the American president at the height of his powers surrounded by his lap dogs in the White House. The last thing he needed was getting into a senseless public debate. It was callous. It's like a foreign leader debating the British PM in parliament- what do you expect?

Already, Macron and Starmer had gone before him to smoothen the way. Negotiations had already been made and it was reported all that was left was a signature. The security guarantee or not would have been part of the agreement. If it wasn't there already, a public spat with Trump would not put it in.

Z can disagree with Trump without being antagonistic. Look at when Starmer visited and Vance went on a rant about 'free speech' concerns and how it was hurting American interests. Starmer went diagonal and countered him without any fuss. Lastly, if the first encounter was difficult to watch, I wouldn't be so keen on another- it might just be a victory parade of an emasculated Z.

We can continue to excuse the vp and his boss behaviour but they are still going to get to the table again with Ukraine no matter how they despised Z, they are the ones actually wasting their time with all the boasting that they will end the war in 24 hours.

Kenn55:
I think they intended to ambush Z to sign the deal without questions. That is why they brought the cameras hoping Z would just say yes without questions. Otherwise there is no reason on earth why those discussions shouldn't be done in close door. Leaders at that level agree on paper things like that and now invite cameras for just signing ceremony.

I agree Z made some mistakes in the way he talked but he was raising some genuine issues. Without a clear security guarantee, how can we be sure that Putin will not reinvade? There was an agreement signed in 2019 that he tossed away.

The reason why US is important for Ukraine cos Trump is the only guy that Putin respects and fears so he can use his might to extract concessions from Putin for Ukraine so they said. However, up till now there is no indication he is applying or willing to apply pressure on Putin to give up something, he is just agreeing to everything Putin is saying but we are seeing pressure on Ukraine to sign mineral deal.

If the idea is to end the war on Putin's terms only then Ukraine can end it on their own, they don't need the US for it. Z can just call Putin and agree to his demand to pull out of the 4 regions Russia wants to gain and the war will end now. Putin also wants to end the war cos he is bleeding too but Ukraine is bleeding far more.

Trump is supposed to be a strong man but it seems that his strength is only when it comes to weaker countries. If you listen to Trump, it seems Russia is more powerful than the US and the US has to accept whatever Russia wants.

My advice to Ukraine will be to accept their loss and give Russia whatever they want to end the war. It is no different than what Trump is offering.

My advice to America is to stop wasting money on military budget, it is useless and a waste. If their only power is to bully weaker nations and can't even stand up to powerful countries then they can do that with small military budget cos they are not as powerful as we thought. They should channel their money to fix their Healthcare instead.

They aren’t wasting money as 70% of the spending cash stays in the US in form of defence contracts and jobs. Baba Trump and gang are just looking to corner their own share.

Cyberknight:
Lighten up, everyone.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUpOMSJ1MdU

😂 the vp who’s been to Ukraine on google maps is my best actor, what a clown!

jedisco:
Hehe.. what would he done? Walk out and face Putin?

For all Trump said- he reminded Z he doesn’t have the main cards here. Z is the one seeking help and he should be playing his cards well.

Just like at the onset of this war, I still continue to wonder how Ukraine would gain.

Before the war, when UK and U.S warned Z that Russia were amassing troops on his border, he laughed them off as being war mongers. Appears he had no idea which is shocking for 2 nations so closely intertwined.

Many nations have gained-
China and India get cheap energy
North Korea got a nuclear power behind them with security guarantees
Some European countries used the distraction to quickly join NATO
U.S used this to appraise and deplete Russian capabilities/demography, test new and deplete old weapons plus fund their military industry.

Ukraine is not more likely to join NATO now than they were at the beginning of the war. Russia has also suffered and any 'victory' now would be phyrric and looking to prove a point which is not what Ukraine wants.

We all agree Russia is the bad bear and America the dominant lion. Could Ukraine not extricate itself from being cannon fodder between the two? What effort did Ukraine make to avoid this? This was largely foreseeable. The reality of the world today is that if a nation decided to make the Soviets (or now China) their best friend, they probably don't want to share a border with America.

For all the huffing, how long can the EU unilaterally support Ukraine without the U.S? How long before the 1 million young NEETs in the UK question why we are sending billions to Ukraine when their benefits are being cut?

Dude was there to sign the agreement all Trump needed to do was to allay fears of Z that they will start work on the security guaranty part (even if he will not just say something to make it a quick meeting). Trump as usual is too rigid to bend backwards and think everything must be a TV show. He’s definitely going back on the negotiating table after all his huff and puff season is over cos how will he explain to his boss musk that he won’t get those rare minerals (I bet you the Europe will be willing to spend more to get those minerals for themselves) for his Tesla empire. And like our dear Aunty Z has said here next time Trump should tell his VP to sit down at home when duly elected presidents are having a chat whether they are dressed in suits or not.

jedisco:
Truth be said, the gruelling was painful to watch. Z lacked diplomacy- There was no point engaging in a public show. He should have leaned into unviersal American/ anti-Russian principles and focused on the need to find 'lasting' peace. At a point even Vance said there was no need putting up a spectacle in front of the media- the arguments are better done behind doors.

Many of the statements he made which provoked a Trump response were not necessary. E.g reminding Trump that they are only safe from Russia 'for now' cos of an ocean and things may change. Understandably, English is not his first language

It's in situations like this one may need some British diplomacy. We've seen Keir in his meeting fawn over Trump using certain words repeatedly e.g 'special relationship', 'unprecedented invite'

Wouldn't be surprised there'd be another meeting but this time featuring a forlorn Z with Trump parading him like a trophy.

That’s the only thing i didn’t agree with with Ukraine president but remember jd Vance had began bullying him prior to that. Perhaps Z knew something that’s not too known yet cos with all Trump is doing there are rumours about vulnerabilities already in the US national security apparatus.

justwise:
Exactly!! when i first read about this deal on BBC website and the demand for security i thought it will never work because Trump will not be willing to harm his friend Putin.

They wanted to shout down Zelensky, force him to sign the deal and dude refused to be intimidated behind close doors and in front of the press, their massive egos got smashed then you started hearing stupid stuff like...have you said thank to the president today? I made you a tough guy, you don't have the card, you are not a tough guy without America.... bla bla bla

This is a failed robbery

that's why I laugh when people say Trump is seeking for peace

justwise:
This is what lead to what happened yesterday, Trump and his VP invited Ukrainian president to sign a deal for exchange for security but when he got to US Trump and his team changed their mind and refused to include security as part of the deal, Zelensky refused to sign the deal and that angered Trump and his team...that anger was what we witnessed yesterday.

Guess who will benefit from the mineral deal? Musk, Tesla battery needs the mineral material and he was pushing behind the scene to get the deal done.

He was the one all along; that's why Trump is frustrated with the deal not being signed cos his boss (Musk) ain't gonna take his excuse

AgentXxx:
Lol since this is a UK forum. Let’s ask ourselves the question. Is the Uk in the right financial state to be sending aids and receiving Ukrainian refugees?

How are we sure the UK too doesn't have eyes on the minerals in Ukraine? We should start from there cos, from what I have seen and know, the West does no charity but is always transactional. They don't send aids anywhere for nothing.

Zahra29:
Agreed. Russia is no real friend, ask Assad who enjoyed Putin's support until it was no longer expedient to him.

There are reports that China's and Russia's intelligence agencies are stealthily recruiting US Federal employees who have recently been fired or at risk. No doubt looking to leverage on their disgruntlement with Trump's adminstration. Soviet spies loading....

To the bolded, Ukraine actually had nuclear weapons but in 1994 it signed up to a treaty with Russia and the West (including the US) to transfer these weapons to Russia in exchange for security assurances to respect its independence and sovereignty. A few years later, Russia, who was one of the parties in the agreement, invaded Ukraine and hasn't stopped.

wahala! I hope it's not true!

AgentXxx:
Lol I don’t know if you missed the Ganusi saga that happened in Nigeria between some alfas and Kwam 1. I can relate it to this US/Ukraine. In Life, If you want to be respected, you need to work on self sufficiency and try to stay away from asking people . In majority of cases, A needy person doesn’t get any respect. That is why literally the giver’s hand is always at the top of the receiver’s.

How self-sufficient is the US? A country that is highly subsidized by the rest of the world is it not the minerals that Trump is after? The US will soon find out it doesn't even hold all the aces. That's how the UK thought it was self-sufficient until Brexit happened- just let the US continue in their folly.

AgentXxx:
In all this Ukraine/US commotion, Trump is saying the truth even though he should have been more diplomatic about it especially on tv.

Despite the billions been sent to Ukraine which is straining the budgets of many of this countries sending aid, Half of Ukraine have been taken over and many lives lost.

Ukraine can’t win the war except NATO countries get fully involved which is an auto call to World war 3. No country wants that except Ukraine who is too focused on winning the war at the detriment of the world.

My best suggestions is for Ukraine to get the ceasefire and then re-strategise of the way forward to reclaim back their land.
.

truth that Ukraine started the war abi, kotinu

AgentXxx:
Lol that isn’t how politics works, What it means to Trump and his VP is that he wanted Kamala to win but now that they didn’t, he is coming to them. Plus what would him getting pissed resolve. US is the big brother with the resources, if you can’t lick ass then go find another big brother. That is the reality of life. The powerful ones want to always show strength and control which is US under trump is doing.

The man was in the white house to sign the deal; he only requested a Security guaranty. Is that too much to ask? Despite not getting that he was humiliated (a whole President) like a piece of rag and thrown out of the oval office and his lunch given to journalists or waka pass people, is that how the world we live in operates now? Let the US continue this brash attitude; tomorrow, they will be the ones whining again that they are being disrespected by others.

justwise:
He was as the attack was coming from the two morons and the press, Trump and his bootlicker planned it before meeting got started. Vance wanted to show dad Trump that he loves and care for his ego hence the provocation

Exactly it was a planned work, those folks in the Oval Office were never ready for any peace. They just want to loot and make cool cash while Ukraine can burn for all they care.

Cyberknight:
Mad people. Musk shows up in a Tshirt, jeans and a cap at a so-called Cabinet meeting and no planted journalist asks him why he isn't wearing a suit.

That’s the original President na, who born monkey?

justwise:
He was attacked even by the press there, one person asked him why is not wearing a suit, JD Vance is not a man of character, he needs to keep licking Trump's boot just to keep his job

It was even more irritating when the vp was reminding Zelensky that he campaigned for the opposition, are they not over the elections they won? Honestly I think Zelensky was even more tolerant, there’s no human in the middle of a war that won’t be pissed

BouquiLake:
You need to understand what he was trying to do—impress his boss!

The guy really isn't bright. I wonder why he was even there; it was a meeting between two presidents.

I couldn't help but laugh when Zelensky asked him if he had ever been to Ukraine, and he stuttered before finally saying that he had only watched the destruction on TV. Hahaha!
.

The thing tire me, youthful exuberance by the vp just messed things up

Illusioneffect:
This shows you just watched a 2 minute clip
I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context.

When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That's not what happened.

You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn't attack Zelensky and wasn't even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument.

In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always "we'll see." Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders.

For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would've signed a deal.

The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere.

The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw.

Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument.

I've been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don't see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.

What was Vance sitting down there for? and what right does he have to challenge Zelensky? Vance ruined the entire conversation

TheGoodJoe:
Vinicius was not better than Rodri. Rodri was a pillar for Manchester City and the best player of the Euros. Why do people think Vinicius deserved it over Rodri beats me. Rodri was consistent all round.

It was a popularity contest, Vinicius still won the FIFA player of the year. That’s shows how controversial the award was.

justwise:
My God!!! I respect Zelensky more than i ever done before, he is a real man, a man with a bigger balls than Trump and his little bootlicker VP joined together.

Those two bullies were out to humiliate him,

I just wonder what the vp was sitting down there for, Zelensky asked him he had visited Ukraine he started blabbing. These kids in the oval office na wa for them

twosquare:
You can't blame him. We all see what is going on in front of cameras, but some of use forget that these two people who occupy the highest office in the land have access to privy and classified information. That may have triggered him concerning Zelenzky.

No matter how triggered, the White House is not a place for kindergartens, how can you be asking a president of a country if he has said thank you today?

justwise:
My respect for Zelensky has gone on top of the roof, he is a real man. JD Vance is a lapdog

Jd Vance is responsible for the shit in there today. Real bulshit

God1000:
Such balderdash and disgraceful behavior from Donald trump and JD Vance

Hold your ground Mr zelensky, He’s a con artist and a crook.

Don't sign a deal giving your minerals away, just Walk away instead

Jd Vance was too disrespectful there even Trump was still diplomatic until Vance added fire