₦airaland Forum

forgiveness:
Suarez already became the best striker in the world when he was in the Eredivise before he went to Liverpool. Fact

It was not under Brender Rodgers he became the world best striker. Fact.

Suarez still became the world best striker in Barcelona after he left Liverpool. Fact

Sturridge already blossomed before he left for Liverpool.

Sterling is better than when he was under Brender. Fact

So, if you think Chelsea is hire and fire, why did Victor Moses suddenly became a world class player under Conte when he was nobody under Mourinho?

Na Chelsea's fault?

Chelsea doesn't like discarding players like that.

The truth remains that when Victor Moses worked under World class coaches known to develop players his stock rised. GBAM

Martinez and Conte are two case study.

Give Victor Moses chance under Guardiola, Simione or Klopp, he could be better than Salah. GBAM

Suarez was nothing more than an interesting upcoming player while at Ajax.
He became a force and came into his full element while at Liverpool. Ajax was just a starting point for him. It's just like saying C Ronaldo was world class at Sporting Lisbon.

Youre being economical with the truth or of the hand ignorant if you believe Sturridge blossomed before Liverpool. This was a kid who couldn't find his feet at Chelsea and Man city. He hardly kicked a ball in anger at both clubs until his career turn around at Liverpool where himself, Sterling and Suarez formed a dynamic attacking trident who nearly won the league.
This unraveled before our very own eyes, but somehow to suit a narrative, you want to twist facts.


Did Salah work with Klopp, Guardiola or Simione while at Roma where he contributed something like 18 goals and 14 assists? A number Moses have failed to hit at any point in his professional career.

Icon4s:
Awaziem is Over-rated in my opinion.

This was a player that was once tagged our best CB on this thread. That was even before he got invited.
Na so we no hear word about Mikel Agu here las-las we have seen what he can offer.

Hyping of players on this thread is too much abeg.

They have started hyping Samuel Kalu now. We dey watch.

Honestly, he's the most overrated player in this current team. He's not better than any of the Chan defenders. That's the harsh truth

forgiveness:
I mean they were no World class players and were not in the top 20 best players in the world as at the time they came to Chelsea. That is my point.

Is it not the same Mourinho that sent Salah, Kevin Bruyne, Lukaku and other talents packing from Chelsea after they flopped under him?

Victor Moses was injured under Rodgers but seriously, is Rodgers a top class coach? I am just asking.

Do you know it was under Martinez, Victor Moses was rated the best dribbler in Europe and it was under him he was bought by Chelsea? Even Martinez told the world Victor Moses was very good and needed to develop before he moved to Chelsea.

Is it not under Conte Victor Moses was nominated for Apoty and BBC player of the year?


Simione, Guardiola and Klopp will improve Victor Moses and could make him more better than Salah.

In my own personal opinion Victor Moses is more talented than Salah but Salah is more refined and matured. That's all.

I don't know if Rogers is a good coach or not but at least under him, Suarez rose and became the best striker in the world a feat he hasn't managed to achieve since leaving for Barca. Players like Philip Coutinho, Sturridge and Sterling blossomed under Rogers, so I believe he must have known a thing or two about developing players.

I totally understand why Debryne and co left Chelsea. The club is structured on shape in or ship out, fire brigade, win or you're out, trophy mongering policy. When a club is structured on such quick fix ideals, talents wouldn't be groomed or encouraged to blossom. It wasn't Mourinh's fault entirely those guys left the club, Chelsea's policy is chiefly responsible for that.

My opinion is that Moses have worked under some very fantastic managers throughout his career that it will be demeaning if we say that he could only be improved to Sala level by only 3 managers in the world. It doesn't even make sense.

Omeruo was the best rated of all the 5 Nigerians on the pitch in the Buraspor Vs Kasimpassa game last night.
The Ekong/ Awaziem forced partnership must stop if Rohr knows what he's doing.

forgiveness:
I spoke as a Chelsea fan. He was nobody when he came to Chelsea. He was no Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar etc.. Just so so player.

His case is not different from Williams who was bought from Shakhtar Donetsk after he shined against Chelsea. Can we say Williams was somebody before he came to Chelsea?

Maybe to some extent but the way people are portraying Salah before he was bought by Chelsea and his first season in EPL is not the true.

Victor Moses was far better than him then. That is my point.

Moses to me is not yet polished. If he meets Liverpool, Athletico Madrid's coach, or Guardiola, he could be better than Salah.

I think you should define what you mean by calling someone a "nobody" because the William you mentioned was well known in Europe while at Shaktar Donesk.
William, Douglas costa and Fernandinho were part of the Shaktar team that dominated the Europa cup and caused lots of upsets in the champions league, William was not an unknown when Chelsea got him.

Salah was an upcoming 21-year-old who was earning good reviews around Europe. He was a highly sort after by various clubs at the time thats why he cost Chelsea 12 million.

Moses have worked with many top class coaches in his career including Rogers, Mourinho, Martinez and Conte. If it will take only Simione, Guardiola and Klopp to get the best from him, then maybe he is not that good after all.

forgiveness:
I know Lukaku in Belgium before he came to Chelsea. He already made name for himself and when he played I knew he was good but Salah was nobody when he came to Chelsea.

Salah was out of place when he played for Chelsea. Not Impressive

SAlah was not a nobody so to to speak when Chelsea got him from Basel. I believe Chelsea got him from the Swiss club after he ran rings round their defenders in the Champions League, he scored 3 times against them I recall.

Also prior to his signing, he was already an important member of the Egyptian national team with 14 goals in 17 games. He was indeed one of the rising stars in world football that's why Chelsea paid £12M for him not £1M. Also they saw him as a replacement for Juan Mata.
I saw him play for Basel in the champions league and I must say, I enjoyed his game.

tbaba1234:
The whole team has had a poor season in the league.. You can not pick out one outstanding player this season.. It has been that bad.

I am saying that some of the criticism is unfair and some players get unfairly picked on when things go wrong... Confidence is a fragile thing, you can not keep attacking players and think it won't affect them.

Even today where Iwobi had an outstanding game, there were still fans having a go at him on social media.

YOu have to distinguish trolls from fans. I mean, this is Internet. I've seen fans troll Oezil and even Xhaka when I thought they had good games.
People even troll Messi here on Nairaland not to talk of Iwobi.

When I'm talking about real assessment, I can tell you that Iwobi have been below average, I dont think he can get into any of the other top 6 sides if his performances this season is anything to go by. He had better buckle up next season in his own interest.

tbaba1234:
Another year of poor performance in Africa. Something is fundamentally wrong

This is nothing new, we all know that most npfl clubs are under equipped to handle the rigors of playing continental football.

Case in point, Plateau Utd Vs Etoile. I heard the Tunis club sent a meteorologist to Kano before their tie with plateau utd. With the weather information at hand, the Tunis club got customized jerseys to suit the Kano weather conditions. This is the extent these guys go with details.
I mean, our clubs get jerseys from open market while their competitors get customized shirts for specific weather conditions.

The problem of our league is not lack in talent but proper organization, attention to detail and of course Money. We saw Nigerian league groomed players hold their own in Chan and the Rio Olympics, so the question of talent is out of it.
I don't know how, but Enyimba appears to be the only Nigerian club who know their way around Africa.

tbaba1234:
Iwobi was one of Arsenal's best players in that game you shared but all of that goes out of the window because he miscued a shot. That one miscued shot wrote off all the good work, he did in that particular game. Unfair criticism

The whole Arsenal team has been poor this season. At some point, Iwobi was obviously down on confidence but the fans make it worse by the continuous and sometimes unfair criticism. As an Arsenal fan, i understand the frustration when the team is doing poorly but picking on players won't help the situation. Put some of these Arsenal players under a different manager and they will be outstanding.

In other words, Iwobi has had a good season for Arsenal but the fans in their thousands if not millions just criticise him unfairly.

By the way,I believe you're referencing the home leg Carling cup tie against Chelsea where he had a decent game but totally Yakubued one easy chance that came his way, his only saving grace in that game was that Arsenal were leading at the time and they later won, had the lost, will you blame the fans for singling him out?

tbaba1234:
Arsenal fans reflect the negativity that surrounds the club.. Certain players get more stick than others. Iwobi has suffered several times from unfair criticism.. Even today where he created the most chances, had a key pass and an assist, he was getting a lot of stick.

If Arsenal had drawn or lost today, Iwobi would have gotten a lot of abuse even though he was the best Arsenal player on the pitch.

Iwobi has been far from convincing this season if we want to be honest with ourselves. I have seen games pass him by when he should be one of the main actors. The fans lost patience in him when time and time again he failed to live up to expectation and then came the wild night party incident......

Even at his worst, Iwobi wouldn't make top 3 most criticized player. Xhaka, Bellerin, Oezil are the most criticized, although Oezil appears to have won the fans back with some solid displays for weeks now. That's how it is, you win back the fans with good displays, people invest money, time and emotions supporting a team, you cant gag them not not to show displeasure when you're not playing well amidst reports of partying.

This video sums up Iwobi's season

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFG1EV5helQ

Danielnino00:
Consistency is the key.... Let him keep it up...

And regarding insults from arsenal fans,I just checked their social media pages now and there's a lot of praise for him...he even some MOTM nominations... I'm very sure arsenal fans don't hate him.. he just gets a lot of criticism cus of his poor performance sometimes.....

One of the most hilarious things I read on this thread was that Arsenal fans single out Iwobi for criticism because he dumped England for Nigeria, when 90% of Arsenal fans aren't English.
We are talking about a global brand that is Arsenal whose fan base cuts across different races, tribes and religion.
This thread can be quite yellow at times.

AIG07:
Ideye? Are you recapping what you've said before or you are making a new suggestion? If the latter is the case, I disagree with you.

We don't just need another striker-we need a potent and clinical one and Ideye does not fit the description.

On Samuel, he alongside Aluko didn't receive fair treatments by previous gaffers and their inability to feature consistently in the GWG has reduce their stock and nothing has shown they're in Rohr's plan-not even a rumour from the media...

With what we have on our hands currently, we need more than just a goal scorer. A guy like Kelechi can hang around the penalty area and get goals, so we have our poacher already. What I think this team lacks currently is a proper connector between the midfield and attack.
This is the kind of job an Ideye or even an Aaron Samuel could bring to the table. Aaron is big and very strong on the ball, he could be an asset, moreso Ideye, if he can get his head in the game .

It takes years to train a striker. There's no way we can find a potent and clinical striker like you put it just weeks to the world cup.

bengine:
Umar is a very mobile forward and can retain possession also with his style of play..his finishing and decision making is not there yet but a guy like that at 21 has age on his side to improve..

Since we are looking for another forward, he offers something most of our other strikers don't have.. he can be our third striker behind Ighalo and nacho ..but i really do think he has something to offer this team...

The only reason I think so is because of our style of play, we rely a lot on our inverted wingers, I think he could make the Nigerian side look more dangerous even thou is finishing is not there yet..

I dont think we lack 3rd and 4th choice players. We need players who can add something straight to the first team. I suggested Ideye because he's no stranger to this team. The excuse of blending in won't be a problem.

Recall, I blew the whistle on the apparent lack of prolific goalscorers in this team but I was waved aside for being an alarmist.
Jungle don dey mature, the scales are falling.

By the way, Aaron Samuel seems to be doing well of late. I will rather take him to the front lines than Umar. I'm sorry if you're offended

tbaba1234:
Ideye that has not even made the Malaga bench in the last few games. Umar is making team of the week performances every week.

Yet you admit that you have not watched Umar recently.. At least, make a objective opinion after watching a few games.

My opinion is very objective. Last I watched Ideye, he was hands down the man of the match against Valencia (I think), even though he was on the loosing side. If he haven't made the bench over the the past few weeks, it should be an indication that he's injured and maybe the injury was not reported by the associated press.

Secondly, the Eredivisie is a very weak league. Dutch football is no longer taken seriously in Europe. Can you name any serious world cup contender who will parade a single player from the Eredivisie? The answer is a capital NO! That should tell you how embarrassing low Dutch football have gone.

I have caught a few glimpse of Umar at Nac Breda but honestly, I still the old turn over merchant Umar ,who trips over his shoe laces.

With the poverty football on display in the 2 last friendlies, we actually need more naturally gifted players up front, who can unlock defenses with shear creativity not another hipster in the front lines.

Joebie:
watching his goals and assists last term I still see world class quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-hDNokRMdM

SAlah left As Roma as their best player and he made the Seria A team of the season 2 times consecutively. I don't understand why people are frightened at the the thought he could actually be better than Moses.

komekn:
Attributes are not proven until tested.

When you say a player who has not played more than 20 professional games is. EXCELLENT TALENT that must be transferred to the field of play.

Why did he have to leave Seria A and Roma to come to the Belgium league Yes lack of opportunity agreed but if was that good then he should have been given opportunity in Seria A. Particularly as this a league his attributes of physicality speed and skill will give him clear advantage.

The way he continously falls over is a lack of strength and balance but I think there may be an issue of flat feet and poor ankle mobility as well. The way he falls over at the slightest physical confrontation for such a big guy is not normal.

Compare him to Tega Abrahams and Lukaku see the difference.

My biased view as some will call it, is he will not survive league 1 in England.

Nonetheless, I think he has potential but he hasnt shown enough yet to be called to the SE.

Unfortunately Obagoal is injured our only true top quality proven and tested striker.

Your direct and frank approach works for me. Umar is as average as they come as far as I'm concerned.

I cant understand why we glorify mediocrity just because one finds his way to Europe. If we are getting that desperate to go with Umar, then it should be worth considering Ideye who to say the least, can ride and survive challenges whilst standing on his feet.

Loogan:
Bro you cannot play in the edisivere if you don't have above average technique, I believe sodiq has that kind of smoothness maybe not to Kanu level, he sometimes has bad touches I think that the unorganized thing you see in his game.
But when he's a more mature player he will be smoother on the ball.

Skills and smoothness on the ball is a natural born gift. Either you're born with it or not.

Mujtahida:
We don't have gk. Uzoho no be am abeg. Against Argentina he was so smooth. The Uzoho I saw in the last two friendlies is the real Uzoho. We no get keeper.

This is the home truth. The friendlies exposed the real Uzoho. He was just all over the place with this awkward feel about him like he was not a natural. Recall, he started out as a striker and only only converted to a goalie 5yrs ago.
I'm not a fan of Alampasu, any regular here will know this, but I will rather go to war with him than Uzoho.

If Uzoho wasnt based in Spain, will there be clamour for him to even be the 3rd choice gk? Your guess is as good as mine.

BascoVanVeli:
If Mbape is worth160 then Lemar should not be far off.

It doesn't have a single thing to do with Neymar. PSG paid Neymar's release clause leaving barca alot of money to play with. Of course Dortmund would boost Dembele's price because the whole world knows they have 222 milion in the bank. But before that he was highly rated and he had even turned down Barcelona the year prior so they didn't just go to the park and spend 100 on some bum.
It's not like Arsenal had a deal set with Monaco, they were bidding and getting rejected. If there was such a thing as Neymar effect Lacazette and Aubameyang would have both been sold for 100 million.

How the Neymar domino effect triggered record winter spending
Thus it was a domino effect from Paris to Barcelona that enabled them to splash the cash, which in turn triggered Liverpool's club record signing of Virgil van Dijk from Southampton.A number of other top clubs made significant purchases in January; Arsenal brought in Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang and Manchester City swooped for Aymeric Laporte - both club record deals - whilst Manchester United handed a whopping salary to Alexis Sanchez and Atletico Madrid signed Diego Costa.Other key patterns are also emerging, such as how players are more often moving for their release clause, including Neymar, Laporte, Inigo Martinez, Cedric Bakambu, Dani Ceballos and Vitolo.Given that such a clause is mandatory in Spain, the volatile market can make it very hard to predict a player's worth at the moment of signing a contract, particularly a long-term one.Furthermore, Madrid's inactivity for January was partly due to a busy summer, however the impact of new players has been minimal when taking the percentage of minutes actually played into account.For example, Theo Hernandez and Ceballos have featured in just 18 percent and 11 percent of Real's minutes since joining, respectively, which is a far cry from Paulinho's 58 percent at the Camp Nou.

http://www.marca.com/en/football/barcelona/2018/02/13/5a81d91b468aebe05e8b4596.html

Neymar's Move To PSG Will Set A World Record And Trigger More High-Priced Transfers - Forbes
https://www.forbes.com › 2017/07/31

Please spare awhile and read how Neymar's mega transfer distorted the European transfer market. I would have referenced another 100 articles on the subject but that will be an over overkill.

Mujtahida:
just watched the youtube clips of rastaman Uchebo and just one thought was running through my mind: Every player plays mouth watering football on youtube.

Bros, this is not true o....Those skills you saw were neither doctored nor film tricks. That guy was an extremely talented and skillful player, you just have to give it to him.
I saw him play with my korokoro eyes. He's like a quicker Kanu Nwankwo. At a point he was details away from signing for either Stoke city or Newcastle.

It is rather unfortunate his career was cut short when he signed a bad contract with Boavista which ended in litigation at CAS. Nigerians singled and took out their frustrations on him because of his conspicuous looks and long dreads, most of whom do not know how talented he was .

BascoVanVeli:
There was no Neymar effect, he was sold for what he was worth. Nobody will buy a 24 yr old for the same amount they buy a 19 yr old. I followed Salah in Fiorentina and Roma and I can tell that he was not this good. He could do almost everything he is doing now but he was not as lethal as he is and the change has been more than drastic.

ANd Thomas Lemar was worth 96Million? Recall,Monaco wanted 45-50M for him initially but the Neymar transfer effect saw an astronomical rise in transfer fees which saw inflation of player's transfer fees. The inflation saw Moussa Dembele switching to Barcelona for over a 100M.
Any keen observer of transfer window will know the impact huge transfer fees such as Neymar' s have in the general valuation of players.

BascoVanVeli:
What on earth are u talking about? Where did I say that Salah was born this season? U are talking about 32 goals contributed in all competitions while the man has already scored 29 goals in the EPL. His 15 league goals last season was a career high, he has completely improved as a goal scorer. I watched him in Roma and he was not as prolific as he is now, missed a lot of chances tbh. If Roma knew he was capable of scoring 29 league goals he would have cost much more but he went for peanuts.

Look, this guy's development was in an upward curve if you consider how good he was at Fiorentina, then later Roma. Right after the transfer window in August, he was rated as the bargain buy of the season by International Federation of Football History and stats (IFFHS). Their August publication was a big indictment on Roma and Monchii.
Any keen follower of the game knew that more was to come from Salah.

Also, why would you think Liverpool elected to smash their club record transfer fee on a player who they haven't done their due diligence on?

Roma and Monchii fluffed big time, although they claim to have sold him before the Neymar transfer effect which saw Monaco demanding 96Million for a one season wonder Thomas Lemar who they bought for 2 packs of chips the previous season.

Joebie:
truthfully, he came and lighted up the EPL. It's not like he significantly improved.. He may have been a little underrated all this while.. This is the same man that singlehandedly stopped us from qualifying for AFCON. Moses is good.. But Salah belongs to the world class category.

I heard he got about 1 million votes in the Egyptian presidential elections when his name was not even on the ballot paper.

BascoVanVeli:
This is a different Salah than we saw in Roma. Nobody on earth knew he would be this good. So don't use his latest success to put down ViMo because that is just not fair.

Ok, Salah was born this season. Let's conveniently forget he contributed about 32 goals (18 goals and 14 assists) playing for As Roma from the wings!!!

tbaba1234:
Awards are often about votes not who is better.

Junior Ajayi beat Mane for the CAF team of the year. He is certainly not better than Mane.

Also, it is who performed in the year under review . A better player can have an underwhelming year.

Moses does not hold a a candle light to Mo' Salah. They are not even operating in the same stratosphere.
If you think I'm lying, ask Chelsea to swap Moses with Salah, they will bite your fingers off at such an offer.

elyte89:
Boss goldfish80,who b DAT again ?

You know the usual suspects na ... You're not a newbie here ; D

Joebie:
I AGREE -- arguably

I was sick in the belly when you guys were comparing him to Moses.

Joebie:
SALAH!!!

WOrld best. It is that simple.

BascoVanVeli:
For starters pace and skills

HAHAHA.... Really?

Would you mind watching this footage, even for 5 mins.
I would like to see your thoughts on the subject of pace and skills in comparison with Umar.
Happy viewing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFjR2VHSLRk

BascoVanVeli:
Guy quit it, Sadiq is far better than Uchebo.

Name those attributes he's far better off than Uchebo.
Skills? Pace? Stamina? Etc. They should be about the same height.

tbaba1234:
Then you have not watched him play.. I hope you find the time to watch a full eredivise match.

He is just 21 and in my opinion much better than Uchebo and many of our young upcoming strikers. I doubt Uchebo at his best would have troubled PSG , the way Umar did.

He still has things to improve on but in my opinion, he has already improved a lot.

Maybe I should take a closer look at him but from the little I've seen, I see no quantum leap from what I've always known about him.
Have you watched Uchebo enough to know he cannot trouble PSG in friendly game while he was at Venlo?

tbaba1234:
When last did you watch a full game of Sadiq?

Did you watch Roma's preseason game with PSG?

Have you watched his games in Holland?

He has improved a lot from the last time you watched him..

I saw him play against PSG last summer and I've seen some of his highlights in the Eredivisie and I must tell you, there isn't a day light between him and say Uchebo.
He's still the same gangling old Umar.