₦airaland Forum

mendes911:
So?

Lol. Go figure.

Indigbo:
u people are scary on this thread, now u neraly make me pee, am currently negotiating an existing 4 beds deal in mainland lagos, though my lawyer insisted he shud finish his research if it's under govt acquisition before we proceed to payment stage, he also advised i invited pros structural eng to check it out, but hearing this ur write up is like someone telling me that the person beside me is ebola carrier

Bro. Sorry for scaring you. All we are saying is do due diligence. In fact the due diligence you are doing now is not enough, do more, lol! If it is to talk to the governor of Lagos state to be assured and get a document that the land is yours and not under a Government road or plan etc, please do. I know it's as if it's too much, it's just the pain we went through that is talking. Do all the diligence you can. Better safe than sorry.

needful:
U are welcomed. Lol

Hahahahahaha. Thanks.

mendes911:
Disappointment? On top all that early year bonus? Well, I guess greed got the better part of most of us. I hope we have all learnt our lessons.

Funny enough, this scenario will most likely repeat itself next year and many will still stay back and watch their profit get eroded.

Many always forget that a bull market happens because many people are not selling and more people are buying. The opposite for the bear market, many are selling and few are buying. This stuff is all about being emotionally balanced and having a plan.

jidobaba:
Thanks chief.

About buying land. I used to think family and friends who got their hands burned didn't do 'due diligence' or sign proper agreements. It was until I tried it for myself that I realised the game is rigged. My lawyers were advising settle this person, settle that person, if we go to court it will take 10 years, you will end up spending much more. Lawyer oo wey I pay for deed etc. People telling me it's 'normal' to have disputes over land that I paid for in totality plus registered survey. We are still arguing over that plot of land to date. I seriously considered having the other party offed out of frustration. That was when I knew I needed a break.
This is Nigeria.

My brother, I understand your pain and I am glad you didn't fall into that temptation to do the wrong thing.

Some people advised my family to go and put Juju in the land so anyone who enters will off. I could not believe what I was hearing. Immediately I heard that, I said anything that will make a human stoop so low to lose his or her humanity is definitely not worth it. Land? I run away from it! Anything real estate in Nigeria? Nope! I don't want thank you! Land dispute of any kind? Please run! The way people kill themselves is not worth it. If you like collect C of O and do all the jagba jagba the Nigerian system lacks the infrastructure to make real estate fair and well planned. Not saying people shouldn't own land, just know what you own and the risks associated with it.

On that note, Tbills vs Land? Hahahaha. I will always pick my Tbills thank you very much.

jidobaba:
Very nice round of arguments.
My decision is to invest tbills until 6months - give or take - into this time next year when I see naira stabilised at 320-350/$ (Dangote Refinery early 2020 timeline, also watch for sharp drop in tbill rates - CBN has access to best predictions, indices etc). At this point I liquidate and convert totally to the dollar domiciliary account to hedge against inflation.
Wouldn't hurt to invest in EuroBonds/USBonds.
Anyone with guidelines on how?

I also plan to have a completely seperate substantial amount in bitcoin(which should be reasonably stable by then, hopefully with nowhere to go but up).

But count me out of overpriced Nigerian real estate with omonile, landgrabbers and disputes. Just not worth it.
Want my money in the palm of my hands every time.

^For reference purposes.

1. About the Eurobond fund, you can do this with Stanbic IBTC asset management, FBN Quest asset management or even United Capital.

2. About real estate, you said my mind. Me and my family have had a nasty experience I have learnt a huge lesson from. The pain till date is still raw. Real Estate in Nigeria in my opinion is risky. From Omonile, to using government land, to them being overpriced, it's just not worth it to me.

Jejebabaa:
Kudos to all for the intellectual arguments we had here. Both parties are right. I respect AwesomeJ and others for taking up GonFreecss1. GonFreecss1 is arguing based on reality which might be difficult for all to understand. GonFreecss1 has been arguing based on the conspiracy of the rich and i recommend people to find time to read this book (Why-We-Want-You-To-Be-Rich by-Donald-Trump and Robert-Kiyosaki) in order to comprehend GonFreecss1 views and perspective.
Its a capitalist world we live in and we were all shortchanged when the gold standard was abandoned. The US government held the $35 per ounce price until August 15, 1971, when President Richard Nixon announced that the United States would no longer convert dollars to gold at a fixed value, thus completely abandoning the gold standard. The biggest scam in history happened when other countries decided to have their reserve in US dollars which made the USA the world economy headquarter and the Fed started printing US dollars as they like and now the US national debt is above 21 trillion dollars which the government can never pay.
In Nigeria, its so unfortunate that we run a mono economy that depends on oil, naturally the demands for dollars will outstrip its supplies with time if the government does not fix this and take us off the Petrodollars. The Gulf Countries were smarter and decided to peg their currencies against the US dollars as this will help them to take off devaluation and only tackle inflation but in Nigeria, we have two challenges to tackle and they are devaluation and inflation because we do not have the financial war chest to peg our currency to US dollars like GCC countries.
This is why its so important for a smart investor in Nigeria to know when to hedge his naira if he doesnt want to be wiped out by devaluation.
There is absolutely nothing we can do about inflation, even USA can not do anything about it. $1,000 in USA 20 years ago is now more than $8000 in todays USA money. This is why some of us just dont keep our money in the bank in order not to bleed to death and we decided to invest it somewhere to beat inflation.
In reality, our Naira has been doing badly tracking from 1983 when it used to be 1 naira equals $1.38 and fast forward to today, its now $1 equals 370 naira which means our naira has lost over 51,000% in value in 35 years which was an average of 1,457% loss per year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_naira
Kindly note, this should not be a recommendation to buy/sell dollars as past performance is not a guarantee of future result. For better understanding, you can consult your financial advisers.
Best of luck to us all.

A point in a point. Well said sir. You understood my point quite clearly, perfectly infact.

unite4real:
the way you cool hot water is amazing.

Lol. Sir, diplomacy is the name of the game.

We are all here to not lose our wealth or basically create more wealth not fight because of difference in opinion.

emmy4lov:
Hi,

How do I check United capital's present rate

http://fman.com.ng you can see that of many platforms, including united Capital.

Willie2015:
Naija is a tough place to do biz...
Sharks everywhere ... Coys with poor corp governance all over
And yet we must trade, invest and make profit

Hahaha. I understand. We just have to learn to keep moving forward and doing the right thing, not the easy things.

Freedem:
It was not an insult, but if it comes across as that, apologies.

My frustration with him is based on his irrational fear of naira devaluation.

I also apologize for frustrating you with my opinion, though I need to point out it's not out of fear for naira devaluation. I am a small exporter to an extent basically pushing what my power carries, so my only fear is business not doing good, not naira devaluation. Can I also point out I am invested in Treasury bills too? I have my hands in Federal government bonds and some corporate and state bonds? Nigerian Stocks?

I never said people should run away from naira. I just said people should hedge, I also advised people to try and earn in forex, because I believe all this will help the economy and people in return, but like the other guy pointed out, my opinion is not a popular one, but at least it's just an opinion. I hope we are cool? Because I am definitely cool with you and everyone no matter their opinion.

hias2012:
Everybody can't be the same, same applies in the world of investment. A lot have been said on this divergent views already, and it just requires that people respect each other's opinions. This is where maturity comes in. This forum has been derailed by many porporting to false their approach to investment on others. It doesn't work that way. Some people just can't eat beans like that but will manage akara or moimoi. That is how God created us. Some people can't do business and succeed but they can help those in it and earn a living. Bottom line - they all make money. So let's respect this space of diversity in us and this forum will be helpful for those looking for easy and safest ways to make money. How I wish this forum has a more stringent rules and ways of enforcement then it becomes lively for young and old, mature as well as those coming up.

Please let's make this forum mature by learning to accept each other's opinion on his/her approach to making money.

True. Everyone has their own strategy. I apologize if my opinion made anyone uncomfortable, my opinion is what it is, an opinion.

It is well.

DOLLARTEX:
master,what is the right way?

Hahahahahaha. I am not a master o.

So many masters here already. I am a small boy.

My only advice is be wary of trends and what everyone is doing. Take news as 50/50 and not the whole truth. Remember everyone has their sides to tell in a story and when you begin to analyze you will see faults on both sides. And forget what people say, instead focus on what they are not saying.

Freedem:
You assume we don't support the naira and state we are low risk takers, where in actuality, some of us have actually boosted the value of the naira by taking risks, sending in forex to be invested in tb ..

How is that a low risk investment?

Now if it was the opposite and everyone became speculative and started hoarding dollars, what do you think will happen?

You say a lot but most of what you say is full of what ifs and lacks basic common sense .


I say this because of how you couldn't even grasp something as simple as how monetary policies work.

Lol, you stated what Monetary Policies should do...

I told you that what monetary policies were intended to do is not working and has never worked especially for our naira. The historical charts is proof. How does that mean I don't understand Monetary policies? You should remove the bias from your eyes and see what I wrote properly.


Who said People don't send Forex home to invest in Tbills? The question is how many do that? How many Nigerians support businesses that bring in more Forex? Your point on Nigerias going abroad and sending forex back home to be invested as Tbills is funny. I mean, is that not optimism? Do you have the data on Nigerians doing that? But there is data on how many Export businesses there is. What is more sustainable and can actually work? That or businesses that bring in forex? Lol! Clearly a lot of bias.

Your argument is what Lacks basic common sense as you have not answered my question about how a few investors hedging will affect FX? How many Nigerians even do something as basic as Fixed Deposits? Talk less of Tbills? Lol! And how many Nigerians will then hedge?

The narrative has always been for the select few who actually invest and want to hedge. Not for the whole Nigeria to buy FX, if they do, that's their business, but we both know that's not possible because of the mindset of many Nigerians.

Continue with your bias, time will tell how things pan out. Your comments and mine will be here waiting for us and everyone to be revisited.

The trend I have noticed with Nigeria and Nairaland, especially this investment section is optimism. From the Tbills section to here, people like it easy.

But sooner many of you will learn there is an easy way and the right way to do things. People who become successful don't go through the easy way.

Freedem:
The more people hedge the more likely the naira will be devalued.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Nope. You have it the other way round. The more it is devalued the more people would hedge.

I am beginning to think you guys I trying to heap optimism on an outcome you all know optimism can't help.

If the naira is stable people won't have a need to hedge, no one would even be thinking about it.

I will say this and I will say it again, how many of you low risk takers support Nigerian businesses? Buy stocks? Specifically businesses that will go on to export goods and services that earn forex that would ultimately increase supply of said forex? Because that is the only way. If supply is greater than demand. The truth is, many of you are fine with the Tbills low risk, which is okay, many more are fine with fixed deposits and many many more are fine with leaving their money in their bank accounts, and the banks? They are not lending anyone money, they are buying Tbills up and snacking on it like breakfast.

So I am wondering how a select few in Nairaland or a select few of Nigerians that choose to invest will create more devaluation for the naira, when the way the country is run does that exactly.

The funny part about this argument is if we begin to ask people what they think of this current Administration, many wouldn't have any good thing to say. I am now wondering why people have decided to be optimistic about whatever said government says about the economy you are complaining about. It's surprising and it's also not. My conclusion is bias, because of the low risk easy money. Many can't phantom a world without Tbills, a world without a low risk investment. A world with only high risk stocks is a no-no for them. That's my opinion.

Indigbo:
Ok, is it possible all my 9.6 could be wiped out just like that because of inflation or its only the profit that can be wiped out? i thought capital is 100% guarantee even if all profit is wiped out because of inflation or whatever?

Bro. You will always get your Principal and even the interest. Tbills is safe, very safe, when it comes to your naira returns.

All I have been talking about is buying power over time. Inflation cannot just wipe out your naira, that's not what it does.

Just take for instance when we used to buy sweets and chewing gum with kobo, now 1 tom tom is 10 naira. That's all I have been talking about in a nutshell. Sorry if I scared you sir, I apologize.

awesomeJ:
we've been through $27 per barrel, reserves have almost doubled from the $22bn lows of 2016. The largest portion of FPIs panic exist has been settled.

So, certainly sir, the worst is behind us.

Now, to Gonfreecss1:

A report also says FX import bill has reduced significantly.
one small proof of that is the fact that L'oreal, Biersdorf, and Wilmar, makers of Softsheen Carson® Sporting Waves, Nivea, and Kings vegetable oil have all set up production facilities in Lagos due to the 41 item Fx restriction list which includes Cosme tics and veg. oil.

so these 3 brands and more no longer form part of our import bill. And while you may want to argue on repatriation, you should note that it would only be on the portion of the profit that's attributable to the foreign equity holders of these firms. This may be as low as just 5% of gross sales.

Okay then. Let's watch and see how this will all play out. Time will tell.

Indigbo:
the tb experts pls answer this

Sir. Why don't you just hedge? Some in naira (Tbills) and some in FX? Fixed D or EuroBond?

Willie2015:
- Something is clearly wrong with CBN Monetary policies ..
- We have been fighting excess liquidity for the past 30 yrs with the same model without no solution
- Dont understand why CBN will continue to borrow at exorbitant rate in the name of excess Money supply
- Why should banks lend to the real sector when they can make clean 12 -13% without lifting a finger in T bills
- Even when banks decide to lend, no one will take the loan cos of excessive int rate above 30% pa
- We just need to find another model to fix this excess liquidity menace..

Lol. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

You asked the right questions man. I don't know if Tbills return is making people ignore this problems. Time will tell.

vacanci:
Have you asked yourself one of the major policies that kept the dollar at around 360 for one whole year. It's the FMDQ OTC FX FUTURES.

Go and check how much investors are already hedging for net one year. It's not above 366. They cannot all be fools.

I ask you a question, would it have been a wise decision to buy Treasury bills in naira at 18% last year or invested in dollars to cash out after a year.

It is very clear that my Treasury bills of 18% last year was a better decision.

Treasury Bills of last year, a good decision till date? Of course it will be.

But I have been talking about medium to long term here, and I never said people shouldn't buy Tbills, but I have always advised for people to hedge.

b]Go and check how much investors are already hedging for net one year. It's not above 366. They cannot all be fools.
[/b]

Sir, this reasoning is very risky. Because everyone says so, it must be true? Because the general market sentiment is this, it must be so? Damn... market sentiment can change in the blink of an eye, what the current market data says means nothing for the future.

At this stage I think I have known all what I wanted to. Confirm. Thanks for the argument guys. I will try to reply anything from here out, no promises though. I have learnt a lot today to be honest, I apologize if you guys didn't learn anything from me though.

ahiboilandgas:
the cbn governor have all the data and research team at his disposal...he can see all the bank balance in nigeria and where the money is he has more data and info more than any body in nigeria including the president (on money matter)...you don't joke with the chairman of federal reserve bank..cos his statement and body language can make or mar an economy

But sir, why is he not happy about banks buying up Tbills anyhow? Hmmn...

Also I wouldn't trust CBN with anything, go and ask shareholders of all current defunct banks including Skye bank if they appreciate CBN especially the man we are all hyping this evening.

Did you know Skye bank was cooking books to appear liquid, hmmn... but the CBN governor is the all knowing... wonder why they never acted fast with such illegal activities going on.

Oh! What about all the loans banks were busy giving themselves and friends? NPL's anyone? Hahahahahahahahahahahahha.

I can't believe it, Nigerians are being optimistic about our government this evening. Interesting.

vacanci:
Have had of the FMDQ OTC FX FUTURES?

that's CBNs strategy to help speculators who expect the dollar to rise, get their hands burnt. It is a way of reducing present demand in order to cub hike.

Investors are already buying into the future and as of November 30, FMDQ published November 2019 rate of about 366 Naira to a dollar.

August 2017 dollar was 360.
November 2018, dollar could not gain up to 2%

Why will someone think of hedge.

CBN has seen the worse in 2016/17. They are better prepared this time around and speculators will get their fingers burnt just like the 520 to 360 crash. This were Emefiele's words yesterday.

So because the CBN governor said so, it must be true? He can surely see the future. Maybe I will meet him and ask him to predict if I will live for a 1,000 years? Of course he will always say optimistic things!

But then again, he was the same person who complained that Banks are only buying Treasury bills and not lending people money. He complained that banks should be a form of balance to the economy. So why is he not happy Banks are buying Tbills? He should be thrilled. He should be ecstatic, banks are helping to mop up excess Naira supply too by buying Tbills. Less naira in supply, why is he frustrated about it?


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


Common guys! When Dr Barry went to Goldman sachs to bet against the real estate market, they laughed at him. He was even worried they wouldn't be able to pay him, they laughed still... we all know what happened at the end and who laughed last. Can the naira improve? Of course! But because the CBN governor said so? Hmmn... we have short term memory in this country.

ahiboilandgas:
but through the action of the cbn control tool inflation down from 18 percent ,dollar down from 520 to 360 (a flotation can devalue it to 400 )but no country just allow a truely free markets even the king of capitalism American had to bail out private firms like gm motor and Aig with public funds

I agree, no country can, but in Nigeria that is our major tool. That is a problem. I can bet you the real reason the naira went from 520 to 360 to a dollars was not only because of what CBN did, but partly due to what is called a correction. All assets including stocks suffer from this no matter what, people will take profits. You can't expect something to fly that high so fast and there won't be a drop.

This argument is very interesting as we are all coming up with theories and opinions, but time will show us the truth and it will surprise most people, me included.

awesomeJ:
few opinions:

First, I don't see the naira suffering any major loss in the near term. Earlier last year there were projections, and even "prophecies " that the dollar would reach 1000. Most analayst earlier this year forecast 410 as what the official rate would be around November. It was yet relatively stable.

Reserves will certainly find support at the $40bn mark. It's actually back up above $42bn. Oil prices will likely climb back above $60 for each Brent barrel.

one thing with my forecasts though is that I can influence things spiritually to make them true.

If you ask me, except you're buying euro bonds at 8% or more, NTB at 16% yield currently makes for a better deal-at least for the next few years.


On how NTB helps the naira, IT CERTAINLY DOES. REALLY WELL ACTUALLY.

You see, for most folks, dollar is sourced directly or indirectly through the CBN.
Now when you want to buy, you must have the naira to bid at the auction.

At any point in time, even though banking system assets are above N36tn, the liquid portion that can be used for banks for any purchase or payment is often just about 1%. N360bn. There are times the entire banking system doesn't even have up to N100bn.

So at such at time, if the CBN offers say $500m for sale at an FX auction, it may not get to sell more than $200m. basically cos it had succeeded in draining liquidity via OMO.

If proceeds of NTB and FGN bond auctions hit the system hit the banking system today via FAAC disbursement, you may see system liquidity rising to say 700bn, but it won't be more than just a few days before the CBN sucks the excess up via OMO, so that by the time they're having an FX auction, there'd be just enough funds to make a limited bid for FX.

So, while proceeds of NTB, and FGN bonds get back into the system via government spending, the CBN sucks up whatever they consider excess from time to time via OMO, this time, OMO cash stays with the CBN, and doesn't get back into the system until whenever they want. So it's just than banks' claims on the CBN that rise, liquidity may be pretty low.

Now why does the rate have to be high.

Well basically, the fact that the CBN wants to suck up via OMO does not mean banks are under any obligation to buy those bills. It's a choice a bank's management would have to make between keeping dollar assets to reap potential revaluation gains and buying naira debt assets to earn juicy interest. so the rates have to be juicy.

In 2016, while GUARANTY had close to N100bn in revaluation gains, ACCESS actually had a revaluation loss, implying that the way banks choose to manage and denominate their balance sheets is entirely up to them.

I'm quite happy with the MPC guys and I'd give them kudos for their job with the naira.

This is a first, influencing economies spiritually? Wow! We need your help with the naira. Damn! Please forecast it to be 1 naira to a dollar. We will all appreciate this.

We will be here to see the dollar to the naira rate.

Secondly, the only thing that can help the naira relative to forex is the availability of this currencies. (i.e. higher supply). This can only happen with more exports, more businesses that sell goods and services not only in Nigeria but abroad. Hence more forex influx. CBN using forex earned from crude oil is not sustainable. You all do know that is what is saving your naira right? CBN literally buying it up with USD. I don't understand how people are optimistic about the future of a country that operates this way, when everyone is running away from crude oil and others are trying to make it cheaper. So even though I appreciate your theoretical analysis including the OMO auction. It's just theory, reality is showing us different, it has never helped us against the USD, as history will show, will that change in the future? Time will tell, not spiritualistic logic.

The past does not always determine how the future will be, but insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That has always been the case with Nigeria, still is.

Freedem:
Point proven the main goal of tb is to contract the economy.. reduce money supply and inflation..

Tb doesn't create new money.

Burning cash is silly when it's tied to an asset because you will have to re print the cash to pay back.


You also keep saying the dollar is now 370 lol, please try and send dollars from d us and see how much you'll actually get in naira..



Finally every currency is backed by faith , not just d US , take a risk that suits your requirements and there is no need to be alarmist.

First off I never said only the US or naira is backed by faith. So I wonder who that point was/is for.

And your point about Tbills helping the naira is mute, because motive is never equal to results.

Secondly, Tb doesn't create new money, I never said that it does, but the government does create new money... CC inflation.

You said burning cash tied to an asset? You mean Tbills? When did I say money from Tbills had to be burnt? I never said that. Re-read what I said.

Oh! I should send dollar and allow banks decide the rate? That point is mute. Know why? If banks were to convert my Fx to naira, I would be getting a bad deal as it will be lower. But guess what? With your point if I wanted to buy something with my dollars online with naira I should get a good deal, but alas I won't as your point is not a regulatory point, just a bank taking advantage point.

Finally, I was not being alarmist. I never did scream the naira is doomed now did I?


But you know what? We shall all be here to see. If you look at past pages, they have had this argument before and I am sure people in the future will have this argument again, even though the past has already told them the truth. Like they say time will tell the truth.

ahiboilandgas:
u are missing the points ,it there on the cbn website why tb are issued

Sir, I am not arguing the analysis about why Tbills are issued, I am talking about the actual effect on the naira. Why do we have presidents? To control a country and do things to favor the people, but is that what always happens? Or why was Buhari voted in? Was it not to make our lives better? Many people would point out he has done the opposite of what he was voted for.

CBN or any government can talk about what Tbills does adding value to the naira on their website, but what about the reality? Is our naira improving? No it's not! It's not working. That is their aim, but reality is showing us a different result. Inflation cannot work, it's just postponing the inevitable.

Freedem:
You can only burn excess cash when it's not tied to an asset.


Think of it this way


My total cash available is 100 naira

I want to drain 50 naira from the market so I sell 50 naira worth of tb.. with a maturity date..


So now there's only 50 naira left in my market , money supply has been reduced..

Now as soon as d the tb matures , I repay the 50 naira and resell another tb for 50 naira the next year .. can be adjusted to for in with monetary plans.


If you look at this simple analysis, you'll find that no new money as been created, it's just a cycle of liquidity and less liquidity..

You are assuming government only gives money to Tbills People. You have forgotten they pay salaries, they have other bills to pay. So you see? You will be needing definitely more than that 50 naira and 100 naira in total. Government is harder to function well without cash flow, that is why Americans moved off the gold standard, and why we are in so much financial crisis. Our naira is backed by nothing. No asset, our naira is backed only by government faith. The moment Nigerians lose faith in that naira, our naira is useless. Not saying this can/will happen. How many of you can spend kobo? You can't because no one trusts that the next person will collect that kobo from him. Even though CBN then was trying to force people to use it, they later gave up. No one is using it now. That's what your money is, backed by faith, your naira is not an asset, I repeat it's a debt instrument backed by nothing else but government faith. That is why if Nigeria gets hit by a terrible war, you won't be able to spend your naira. No one will collect it. Same with the US dollars, if aliens invaded us today, or earthquakes all over, or nuclear war and society as we know it was destroyed and the world was in uproar, do you think people would be exchanging dollars? Or spending it? What will they use it for? The valuable things will be water, food, clothes/shelter. People would want to survive. Government and money go hand in hand with trust and a system. People always forget this basic concept.

vacanci:
Are u not aware that old notes, mutilated notes and one's no longer legible and recalled by the CBN from time to time?

What do u think happens to those? I don't know if they are burnt but I do know that they are destroyed and the equivalent will be reprinted over time.

In most cases with this kind of cash people rarely lose this money, especially since we are very digital this days and money is basically numbers in your account. Mathematically speaking I don't believe mutilation factors at all. I can always add bad money to good money and take it to the bank, all fresh in my bank account. CBN can destroy it, but I have not lost that naira. And as you said, it will most definitely be reprinted as they usually always do.

ahiboilandgas:
bro cbn drains excess liquidity via tb and omo auctions ,this limit the naira in the system available to buy forex at the interbank markets ,helps in strengthen the naira too ,treasury bills are used as control monetary tools also to meet short term financial demand by the govt ...they can warehouse the money to curb inflation,protect the naira or borrow govt via bond or encourage saving via saving bonds

Seriously? Have you ever heard of scarce naira?

I haven't. I don't care what the theory states, I deal with reality and that reality is that total money supply is still an X (money paid by investors for Tbills) + newly printed money + whatever was formerly removed from previous X for the government to pay bills, or interest rates on bonds, tbills salaries etc. On and on... it would have sounded good if we operated on deflation, but we don't. We do not burn our naira. Less naira today still means more tomorrow, and the less that should have been for tomorrow means more for the day after. It's a zero sum game, at the end of the day more money is created. You hide money for the present and reintroduce it in the future, it doesn't change the fact that more money backed by only government trust is created from thin air. Hereby what you have and call money is not value, just a debt system in which the value of money continues to go downwards. Inflation, especially infinite inflation can never help the value of any currency. Current supply means nothing, but total supply over time is the real deal and the major problem of inflation.

If dollar to naira rate moved from 360 naira to 1000 in 1 day, then went back to 360 naira the next day, but after 5 years it's 200 naira to a dollar, no one will remember that 360 naira to 1000 in a day, as it will be like a spec of dust in the charts. We are talking long term effect. [b]It is why I am still looking for a way to calmly reply the guy that gave me a list of calculations to do, with fixed figures and assumptions with a 5 year span. I could also come up with figures and my own year spans to favor my argument. That will be stupid of me as I don't have to do that, why? History is there to show him, me and all of us that over time the dollar has done better with respect to the naira even if we include that small period when we went to 520 naira to a dollar and back to 362, that period means nothing over time, as it will be in years to come if Nigeria continues to handle things like this. Even if you compounded your Tbills, many of you don't know as you can compound your interest so is inflation compounded. That is why we can't spend 1 naira again, 5 naira is useless, and 10 naira is almost useless, I implore all of you to pick an average interest rate and make your principal 1 naira (as in 1 naira note) and compound it over time, then you will begin to understand that anything easy can't make you rich.
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Oh! No need to reply him again, I think this explanation should do.

So what I am trying to say is if the government keeps creating more money from thin air, taking it back from us is not strengthening the naira in any way, we are just delaying the inevitable, as we usually do in Nigeria.

Can the naira be stronger in the future? Of course, but from what I can see, not anytime soon if we continue like this.

Freedem:
If you don't understand that the sales of treasury bills support the currency by draining cash from the market, curbing speculative demand for foreign exchange then I can't help you.

I don't need your help sir. I have been doing fine over the years with my own way of doing things.

So let me get this straight, you read that it drains cash from the market, but help me to understand this, that money is not burnt, it goes back into circulation when the government pays bills, how in the hell does this reduce supply? This is common sense. How does this drain cash from the market? When the currency is put back in the market to pay bills? I don't do trend speak, I am not a doing what majority is doing kinda guy, that has helped me and still does till date. You keep stating a theory, that you read on the internet or textbook but I am asking you where does the naira go? Let everyone hear it.

Freedem:
You contradicted yourself
in your argument.

Tb can indeed improve the currency exchange rate of a country by reducing money supply and attracting hot forex because of the interest rate..

Hahahahahahahaha. Where do you think money to pay up TB bills interest comes from? Inflation. How does printing more naira help the naira? The naira the government collects is not burnt, but used to pay for other things. Meaning Naira is still in circulation and more will be after interest is paid. If the naira was burnt, this will be an entirely different discussion, but it's not. More naira total supply, more inflation. Have you ever heard there is naira shortage before? With all the Tbills we do, I have never heard of naira shortage, but what about FX shortage? One is currently happening now, 1 USD is 370 naira. Why didn't our lovely sexy Tbills help us bring more investors with FX to prevent that? Or turn 1 USD to at least 300 naira? Lol!

And how many foreign investors will convert USD to naira to buy Treasury bills in naira? When there are charts over the years showing how naira consistently lost to the dollar, the major thing investors come to put money here in is your stock companies. Not Treasury Bills, as that will be very stupid of them. Stock as it is is already subject to fx risk, I am wondering why someone will come here solely for your Tbills. Go and check the Nigerian stock market, institutional investors are leaving because of Uncertainty about elections and hoping to avoid Foreign exchange risk.

So let's hear it properly how I contradicted myself. Like I said, so many biased individuals here that only want to hear themselves. What people choose to do with their money is not my business, but talking about something you know nothing about is funny. Bring your points we are waiting, as we wait for you, why not read more on finance like I advised earlier? Or Economics will be okay too. Should help you see the light.