₦airaland Forum

alBHAGDADI:
Enter Jesus


He brought back a dead girl to life

If this is the same story where be hesitated, telling her mother to go away, then, there's nothing special, because according to your bible, it is clear he did it out of clearing his conscience, not love.

He healed a woman with an issue of blood

He said it was her faith that healed her.

He prevented the stoning of a Mary Magdalene

Maybe he did. You didn't show any evidence though.

Mary Magdalene washed his feet with perfume and her hair in show of appreciation

Maybe, but no evidence.

Women wept during his trial and crucifixion
Women wept at his grave due to love for him
A woman was the first to hear of his resurrection

Show no treatment of him to women

Enter mohammad

The light and mercy to the worlds, seal of the prophets. May Allah's blessings and peace be upon him.

He married a 6yr old girl called aisha

Marital contract (betrothal) can take place at any age, the actual marriage and consummation must take place with the consent of the individuals involved, on reaching maturity (both mental and physical).

He consummated the marriage when she clocked 9yrs

First, her father was a knowledgeable and wealthy man, and wasn't someone to be persuaded or dissuaded easily, by anyone at all. For him to have given his consent is proof that in fact, there was nothing wrong in the marriage.
Second, the pagans who had looked for countless ways to discredit the prophet (peace be upon) never for once objected to this marriage. Another proof that it was in fact, perfectly normal.
Third, there is only one condition for marriage in Islam, maturity (both physically and mentally), so, it is clear that she was indeed mature for the marriage and consummation to take place.
Fourth, she narrated a lot of hadith, hence, it's clear that she was indeed mature.
Fifth, some scholars have hinted at the fact that the old age of the compiler could have lead to an error in writing.
Sixth, some scholars have shown, through referencing from other authentic hadith that it was indeed 16 and 19, not 6 and 9.

NB:- the last two points were deliberately kept for last because they are debatable.
But, either way, there was absolutely nothing wrong in the marriage.

He killed a Jewish woman's husband and father then converted, married and had sex with her on the same day

Evidence?

He married the wife of his adopted son after seeing her unclothedness and desiring her

Blatant lie. Show the evidence from authentic sources.

He married his first wife, a 40yr old widow when he was 25

Indeed, this is a liberation because most widows are avoided, in marriage.
Second, she even proposed the marriage, showing to women that they can propose marriages, and do not have to wait for the man to do so. Indeed, another liberation.

Married 11 wives

First, he was married to only Khadijat (radiallahu anha) for 23 years, before her death.
Second, some of his wives were widows, who had none to protect and provide for them and their children, considering the fact that the man was considered the sole provider of these.
Third, another reason for this was for forming alliances with the nations from which these women came, thus, forming close relationship, and even spreading of Islam.

Says a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's testimony

Another lie.
First, this is from the Qur'an.
Second, it is misunderstood. This is only the case in terms of financial matters, because if you read the verse in context, you'll see that it's talking about finance. Considering the fact that in Islam, the norm is that the man is the provider for the family, especially in finance (but there can be exceptions). Hence, it is expected that he should know more in this aspect.
Third, it is not possible that the rule applies is every matter, because a man's testimony, in women matters cannot be twice a woman's.
Hence, it is clear that it is only in financial matters.

Says 3 things spoil prayers - a donkey, a black dog and a woman

The translation there as "cut off the prayer" is not literal, and doesn't mean nullify, but according to the scholars, means, it will make the prayer imperfect, due to the distraction it will cause.
It's like beauty (the woman) and the beast (the animal). They will both cause distraction to the man who is praying, thereby making the prayer imperfect. This is the view of majority of the scholars, while Imam Ahmad said that it's only the passing of the dog that invalidates the prayer. But either way, it is the distraction the woman will cause that is talked about.

Prescribed beating of wives

Gonna take some time to write, so, just look up this link.
http://www.islamawareness.net/Wife/beating1.html

Prevented women from inheritance

Greatest lie of the day.
This was the pre Islamic law. But, due to the advent of Islam, women were allowed inheritance. A woman is entitled to 1/2 what a man gets.
The question is why?
Because, like I said above, the man is the provider and caretaker of the family, while the income a women gets is primarily hers to spend (this is the norm, but there are exceptions). So, it is logical that the man gets twice what the woman gets.
And it's not in all cases.

He was Killed by poison given to him by a WOMAN

But he survived, and when he was asked of what to be done to the woman, he said to let her go. Another kindness and gentleness to women.

You can add yours

OK. Here's a littles;

Treat women kindly, since they are your helpers; . . . you have your rights upon your wives and they have their rights upon you. Your right is that they shall not allow anyone you dislike to enter your bed or your home, and their right is that you should treat them well. (from the Farewell Sermon of the Prophet)
Once a number of women complained to the Prophet's wives about their ill-treatment by their husbands. On hearing of this, the Prophet said: "Such persons among you are not good persons." (Abu Dawud, 1834). This condemnation by the Prophet himself was an indication that no one will be accepted before God who, while on earth, decided to be unkind to women.

"…And live with them in kindness…" (Quran 4:19)

The Messenger of God said, The most perfect of believers in belief is the best of them in character. The best of you are those who are the best to their women.’ Al-Tirmidhi
The Prophet of Mercy tells us that a husband’s treatment of his wife reflects a Muslim’s good character, which in turn is a reflection of the man’s faith. How can a Muslim husband be good to his wife? He should smile, not hurt her emotionally, remove anything that will harm her, treat her gently, and be patient with her.

Human beings are imperfect.
The Messenger of God said, "A believing man should not hate a believing woman. If he dislikes something in her character, he should be pleased with some other trait of hers." Saheeh Muslim.
A man should not hate his wife because if he dislikes something in her, he will find something he likes about her if he gives it a chance. One way to be aware of what he likes in his wife is for the husband to make a list of a half dozen things he appreciates about her. Marriage experts recommend that one be as specific as possible and focus on character traits — just as the Prophet of Islam recommended, not just what she does for the husband. For example, a husband may appreciate the way she arranges his clean laundry, but the underlying character trait may be that she is thoughtful. The husband should consider admirable traits such as being compassionate, generous, kind, devout, creative, elegant, honest, affectionate, energetic, gentle, optimistic, committed, faithful, confident, cheerful, and so on. A husband should give himself some time to construct this list, and review it in times of conflict when he is most likely to feel averse towards his wife. It will help him be more aware of his wife’s good attributes and far more likely to compliment them.

A companion asked the Prophet of God what is the right of a wife over her husband?’ He said, "That you feed her when you eat and clothe her when you clothe yourself and do not strike her face. Do not malign her and do not keep apart from her, except in the house." Abu Daud

Conflict in marriage is virtually inevitable and it leads to lot of anger. Although anger is one of the most difficult emotions to manage, the first step toward controlling it can be learning how to forgive those who hurt us.

But I guess it's difficult for you to find the one's like this, since they are difficult to corrupt, so, you'll just go to the one's you can easily distort to give funny meanings.

analice107:
Your Brian is in reverse. That is the activity of your allah and his thiefing prophet moharmmad

You can say what you like, but Allah or Muhammad (peace be upon him) didn't author your bible.
It's the handiwork of Christians, and it shows that yahwey (aka, Jesus) commanded the invasion of nations, and the killing of men, women and even innocent children and animals, with the exception of virgins. I need not tell you what the virgins were kept for.
Like I said before, "what a joke!"
If you have nothing relevant to say, beat yourself.
End of discussion

analice107:
What is truth?

I didn't see you mention sex.

Allah loves Sex more than anything else. He commands the muslims to kill and go to paradise just to spend all their eternity having Sex, and allah watching them. what kind of god could this be? even little demons in my village shrines are more honourable than allah. I spit on its name.

Says the dude in whose bible yahwey (aka, Jesus) commands people to invade towns, kill men, children, women, and animals, and save the virgins for themselves.
What a joke! Get a life bro and do something serious with yourself.

zionmade:
Saudi arabia has koran as their constitution, no addition no substraction. And in saudi arabia blasphemy is punishable by stoning or beheading. So i dnt need to search ur koran cos i have nothing to do wit it. And dnt come here and tell me how saudis are not following d steps of ur perfect murderer who ever walked on earth

Saudi Arabia is not Islam.
Does the Nigerian constitution not say to punish offenders? Don't people loot money and go free?
I'm not here to talk about Saudi Arabia, because I'm not an Arabian.
You clearly said that Islam teaches to behead those who insult the prophet, so show it to me. You didn't say Saudi does so, so, don't give me Saudi Arabia as evidence. Show me from the Qur'an or authentic hadith, because you claimed Islam teaches so, not "Saudi Arabia" does so.

zionmade:
U guys lov love him too much but why is blasphemy against mohammad punishabl by death while no matter wat u say about Jesus no one cares

Could you show me any evidence of that from the Quran or Authentic hadith?
Because I'm yet to come across it.

true2god:
Muhammad makes Hitler look like an amateur.

OK.

"Allah's Apostle said, 'The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him"'" (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177).

At least, you said one reasonable thing before leaving.
If you look at the hadith, it says; "the hour will not come". This means that the hadith is about a future event, not a past one.
This hadeeth deals with end time prophecies. In Islamic belief , after the arrival of Jesus (peace be upon him), there will be only two groups of people, one following him, who will be the Muslims (submitters), and the other will be against him, following Dajjal (Anti-christ). Now, since the Jews are still waiting for their king/messiah, a lot of them will side with the anti-christ and not Jesus(peace be upon him). And then, what is described in the hadeeth will happen.
How do we know this?
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Dajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls. [Sahih Muslim, Book 41, 7034]

annunaki2:
I don't have time to continually address rodents like you who continue to pretend not to see the numerous evils in Islam and the quoran. These issues have been thrashed out several times on this forum with overwhelming evidence produced from the quoran and sahih hadiths yet you have the audacity to be asking me for the umpteenth time to show you evidence of what is in the quoran and the sunnah of your evil prophet.

I knew you'll just beat about the bush, and run into hiding like you always do.
I'm not furthering this talk till you say something reasonable. End of discussion.

plainbibletruth:
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“I can give pages upon pages …” does not address the issue. I hope you will agree with me on this. If you are asked to follow a man, any man, as an example there should be some specific things about him that you are to follow. You cannot just be asked to follow a person without specificity as to what to follow about him. It is those specific things about Mohamed I asked you to state but you could not.

The point is simple, can God ask you to follow less than the best? God has told you that the prophet is of high moral character and is an excellent example for you to follow, and you are saying something else.
If I ask you to emulate someone, that he is of high moral character, would it make sense that you are asking me to show you something specific about him to follow? You have been asked to emulate him, for he is of high moral character.

What you have succeeded in proving is that you follow him out of emotions or because you just want to obey those who asked you to follow him even when no “excellent pattern” or “great moral character” has been given.

I follow him because God has commanded to follow him, because God doesn't choose substandard, but the best.
But since you insist, let's see what the Quran says about the prophet.
You have an excellent model in the Messenger of Allah, for all who put their hope in Allah and the Last Day and remember Allah much. (Surat al-Ahzab :21)
The Prophet (saas) is a role model. Believers look at his Sunnah and learn how to implement its precepts and practices in their lives. Indeed, as soon as one looks at the Sunnah, one can see that the Prophet (saas) instructed his community in all matters and showed them how to act befitting a Muslim`s honor. The Prophet`s (saas) entire life reveals a seriousness, responsibility, and sensitivity of which not even the slightest detail is neglected. This is the result of our Prophet (saas) having taught "wisdom," alongside the Quran, to his community:
Allah showed great kindness to the believers when He sent a Messenger to them from among themselves to recite His Signs to them, purify them and teach them the Book and Wisdom, even though before that they were clearly misguided. (Surah Al `Imran: 164)

We have sent you (Muhammad) bearing witness, bringing good news, and warning so that you might all believe in Allah and His Messenger as well as honor, respect, and glorify Him in the morning and the evening. Those who pledge their allegiance to you pledge allegiance to Allah. Allah`s hand is over their hands. Those who break their pledge only break it against themselves. But as for those who fulfill the contract they have made with Allah, We will give them an immense reward. (Surat al-Fath: 8-10)
That should be enough for now.

One of the things that confuse muslims in the quran is its incongruity.

You have shown non.

As a result instead of settling down to be objective in examining it they resort to EITHER simply accepting what your authoritarian leaders interpret any portion to mean or choose the more convenient route of choosing to align with the easier parts of the book.

You haven't said anything.

You can’t on the one hand say that all prophets are merely messengers and then on the other hand say that one – Mohamed – should be more regarded than others even when no clear reason for that is provided in the quran. Does that make sense to you?

Thank you for showing your petty selectiveness, distortion and presentation. I never said anywhere that Muhammad (peace be upon him) should be regarded more than others, because he remains a messenger like all others, so, we must believe in all of them. Though, Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the greatest, because Allah says that He made some to excel above others, but in their essence, we do not distinguish them, because they are still messengers of God, and nothing more. You are the one playing "pick, distort and use", by saying Jesus (peace beupon him) is more than a messenger, when that argument has been debunked by God, without ifs or buts. And like I said, if we are to apply your method of reasoning, Jesus (peace be upon him) will not even be the one to be the greatest, though, he is one of the greatest. Because, if we are to consider his birth, then, Adam would be far superior to him.
Similarly, if we are to consider that he is called the Messiah (he will establish God's kingdom on earth) or his sinlessness, then, Muhamad (peace be upon him) would be far superior because Jesus (peace be upon him) will come back and establish the kingdom of God, using the shari'a of Muhammad (peace be upon him). He won't come with his own shari'a. So, if his being called Al masih, or his sinlessness should make him superior, then, Muhammad (peace be upon him) would be far superior, because for the Messiah, or sinless man, to be a follower of Muhammad (peace be upon him), it shows that Muhammad is in fact, greater (applying your mentality). It is clear who is being biased, because you want to so desperately give Jesus (peace be upon him) a God status which he never claimed, even in your bible. But i guess you'll rather follow the disciple (Paul is not even a disciple) than the master, even though the tenets of their message was contradictory.

What I’m pointing out to you is that the quran itself says Jesus Christ is the anointed one.

But never said he is God. In fact, God says in the Qur'an that Jesus (peace be upon him) was not more than a messenger. I wonder how hard it is for you to understand simple english. It's not Arabic.
Show me the dictionary that says that "annointed one" and "God" mean the same thing, and I will tell you about a useless dictionary.
Besides, if we are to look at the names that the messengers are called, it is clear to everyone that "the light and mercy to the worlds, both mankind and jinnkind" is higher than the Messiah, who is going to come back and follow the light and mercy of the worlds (applying your reasoning method).

That in itself is a call to privilege.

But not a call to divinity.

He is said to be DISTINGUISHED in this world (note this, because it’s not saying HE WILL BE distinguished as in future) and in the hereafter. Distinguished means marked by eminence, distinction or excellence.

The verse of the Quran is that he (Jesus, peace be upon him) is distinguished and among those brought near. Obviously, he is not the only one brought near to God, but among those brought near.
No doubt that Jesus (peace be upon him) is among the greatest messengers, but to say he is the greatest is fallacious. Because, we have seen that the mere fact that he will come as a follower of Muhammad (peace be upon him) shows that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is indeed greater, because the the greatest doesn't become the follower of someone less than himself.

But because you want to stick to islam’s doctored position on Jesus Christ you cannot just bring yourself to accept what is CLEARLY STATED in the quran.

Says the guy in whoms scripture Jesus (peace be upon him) never called himself God or Son of God. It's very clear who is following a doctored position on Jesus (peace be upon him). God says in the Quran that whoever differs on what has been revealed about Jesus (peace be upon him) is full of doubt and follows nothing but conjecture.

You must FIND A WAY to disagree particularly because the person telling you this is not from your camp but an outsider.

Well, the person telling me is not proving any point, and there is nothing to disagree on, because he is following nothing but conjecture.

You’ve been TAUGHT ALL YOUR LIFE that Mohamed should be more revered than others. So even when you see it in your quran that there is someone more DISTINGUISHED than him your brain cannot handle it. The only escape route becomes anything that can ‘help’ you ‘PROVE’ that your position must be right even if it is straw.

You are funny. He is distinguished, yet follows the undistinguished. So, how is he greater. In your bible, Jesus (peace be upon him) says that the disciple can never be greater than the master. So, that has dealt a deadly blow to you, because Jesus (peace be upon him) will come as a follower of Muhammad (peace be upon him). So, if we are to apply your bible, then, Jesus (peace be upon him) can never be greater than Muhammad.

I doubt if Mohamed were to come to the world today that he would accept the quran you guys are having as what came from him. You must know how some ‘EDITIONS’ were destroyed in the attempt to UNIFY the quran. The people who eventually piece together the quran were ENTIRELY DIFFERENT From the man who was said to be the ORIGINAL RECITITER of the quran. Were the compilers ‘inspired’? How did they choose what to destroy and what to accept? Those are stories for another day.

No evidence. Just claims upon claims by the guy whose scripture has so much issues, ranging from interpolations, contradictions, concoctions and fabrications, to insertions, to make it more appealing. If you dont know Bart Erhman, look him up and see what he says about inconsistencies in the bible. Mind you, he's a bible scholar.

For now, the issue is that even in the quran you have with you, Jesus Christ is said to be the anointed one and the distinguished one. Do you agree?

There was nothing to agree. These are qualities and privileges God bestowed on him. If God calls me the Messiah, I automatically accept, there is nothing to agree to.
2nd, the question is not if he is Al masih, because he is. It is the fact that he is not above a messenger/prophet of God, simple. The fact that he is Al masih doesn't make him more than a prophet. Unless you want to tell me that "Messiah" and "God" are the same, then, I'll tell you about a liar.

Mohamed, like all the other prophets is no more with us TODAY. SO, if you are to believe the prophet of your time why Mohamed? How is he the prophet of your time?

The answer is simple. After him, there is no other prophet, and God has confirmed in the Qur'an that there will be no other prophet, book, or anything of that sort after Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the Quran.

Simply because according to you muslims he is the last of the prophets?

Not according to Muslims, but according to God.

Yet those who believed the other prophets did so because the prophets were alive during the people’s lifetime? How did you guys arrive at that deduction?

Listen to yourself.
When a prophet is sent by God to a particular people, they should follow his teachings, and even after his demise must continue to follow his teachings, till there comes to them another prophet from God, confirming that which has been previously revealed to them. Then, they must believe in the new prophet from God, and follow his teachings, but they must also believe in the prophethood and messengership of all the previous prophets sent by God.

Tell me now who is applying a WARPED formula – you or me?

Hate to spill it to you bro. But it's still you, applying "pick, distort and use".

SUMMARY OF THE POINTS
1. No matter what privileges God has bestowed upon a messenger, he still remains a messenger, and nothing more, and we must believe in all of them regardless. Hence, Allah says that we do not make distinctions between the prophets.
2. Allah says that He made some messengers to excel others, but that doesn't make them above messengership, or divine in any way.
3. Jesus (peace be upon him) is definitely among the greatest messengers/prophets of God, but he is not more than a prophet/messenger.
4. On the question of the nature of Jesus (peace be upon him), the Qur'an is clear on that, "he was not more than a messenger", and other messengers have passed away before him. Hence, the matter of his nature, as to being divine or not, is not debatable, not even a little.
5. What is debatable though (from the points raised by the OP) is how great Jesus (peace be upon him) is, in comparison to Muhammad (peace be upon him).
6. From evidence from the Quran and hadith, it is clear, that Jesus (peace be upon him), though, being one of the greatest prophets in not greater than Muhammad (peace be upon him).

udatso:
May Allah reward you brother haroun13 for taking her to the cleaners.

Ameen

I must warm you though, this one doesn't give up. Not even in the face of clear evidence as you have brought forth.

The evidence is for those who seek truth. If she refuses to accept it, that's her business. We can only pray to Allah subhannahu wa ta'ala to show them the light.

annunaki2:
Al taaquiya nonsense!

I'm not surprised. Typical Annunaki.
NOTE: The answer was not for you, but for those who seek truth.
As for you, I've known you to be a liar, from your other posts, and you didn't prove me wrong on this thread. Congrats though

annunaki2:
8. Jihad (unholy war)
Allah also loves those who are ready to fight, kill and be killed for him.

First, a war cant be holy.
Second, Jihad means "striving", I.e, to strive. Hence, any action that involves striving to please your creator is jihad.
Second, jihad can only involve physical fighting, if it is in striving against a tyrannical, and oppressive ruler. For example, Quran 4:75, where Allah asks the believers if they won't fight for the oppressed among men, women and children, who cry to Allah, to raise for them, someone who would liberate them from oppression.

9. Al taquiya (lying to further the cause of islamm)
Allah also loves those who tell lies to promote or defend islam.

First, there is nothing like "taquiya", it's taqiyya.
Second, it doesn't mean lying, it means concealing one's true intentions.
Third, it is a shia practice, and according to a shia brother, they only do it when in danger.
Fourth, from the above points, it is clear that annunaki has no point, but in an unsurprisingly desperate attempt to fault Islam, keeps making a fool of himself.
I challenge him, or any other christian to bring me one verse of the Quran, or one authentic hadith that says that Muslims should lie to advance Islam.
Merely looking at it, it is absurd, because you do not lie to present the truth, it doesn't work.
So, if Annunaki cannot provide any evidence to that effect, he shall be known as a liar, because he makes this claim a lot, but cannot produce evidence. Also, if he avoids this post, he also makes himself a liar.
The choice is yours, bring your proof, or label yourself a colossal, habitual and perpetual liar.

NOTE: The response is for those seeking truth. If you do not accept it as truth, then bring evidence stating otherwise, or become a known liar.

Auki:
Jazakallah Hairan.

Ameen

The problem is that most of them are here to ridicule Islam rather than learn to at least gain additional knowledge.

That is very true. But Alhamdulillah, there are still a few that seek truth, and In shaa Allah, they will find it.

I noticed that most of the ridicules are from Christian-confirming Quran position.
May Allah guide them.

Ameen. We can only do dawah, but ultimate guidance is from Allah alone.

plainbibletruth:
You do not make distinction between the prophet's YET you still have one that is better to be followed?
And that is not not DISTINCTION?
Are you for real?
I'll take you up on the others later.

You have shown that you have no knowledge of Islam.

You must believe in the prophet of your time. During the times of Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, Jesus, etc (peace be upon them all), you had to follow them, in order to attain salvation.
So, it is the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him), and you have to follow him to attain salvation. But, you must believe in all the previous messengers of God.
That is why, when a Jew accepts to Islam, he has to first accept the messengership of Jesus (peace be upon him), and then, that of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

zionmade:
We christians dont believe he was born on dec 25 we know he was born around october but we choose to celebrate him on dec 25

Well, that's part of your problem. You like to follow conjecture.

now islam dat have him as one of the greatest prophet why dnt u guys find a day to celebrate him. Or is his birthday not worth celebrating

That's what you don't understand about Islam. We Muslims do not bring innovations into Islam. The companions of the Prophet who were closer, and even loved him far more than we can ever do, didn't celebrate his birthday.
If it was something of great importance, they would have done it. If they didn't, then, we don't do it, because we don't make innovations, because the prophet (peace be upon him) said that every innovation is a sin, and every sin leads to hell.
Finally, we don't need to pick a day to celebrate him. We love him so much that we celebrate him everyday, in our hearts, minds, bodies and souls. We don't need a particular day to do that.

Bunch of confused fellow following after a confused short man

Ok

plainbibletruth:
Can you tell us examples of the “excellent pattern” and “great moral character” that he portrays?

I can give pages upon pages on that subject. But think about this; For everything there is a standard with which other things are compared in value and precision. For mankind Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala has placed His messenger in our midst. The messenger of God Almighty experienced all aspect of human life. The happy moments and the sorrow and suffering of life. Hazarat Mohammad (peace of Allah be upon him) is a supreme example for mankind to follow. The fact that he has been stated as an example for us to follow is an indication that he is the best, because God doesn't leave the best, and tell people to follow less than the best.

Apparently you did not bother to refer to the verses of the quran I listed up there. Just as you quoted the ones about Mohamed, look up the ones about Jesus and if after that you don’t think he’s UNIQUE then it must be a case of selective blankness.

I know the verses you quoted, and like I wrote in my counter to your first post, there is nothing in there to suggest that Jesus (peace be upon him) was more than a messenger. I even brought a verse of the Quran that already counters the argument and makes it crystal clear that Jesus (peace be upon him) was no more than a messenger.

What is it with you people? You admit there’s a DIFFERENCE yet you still turn round to say it’s nothing. What you guys are actually saying is something like – “There’s a difference but I don’t care”

What do you mean by "difference". Of course he has some differences, and Allah has made it such that every messenger has something, which you may call unique, but none suggests that the messenger is above being a messenger.

Does this reduce the fact that Jesus’ conception and birth were UNIQUE?

It is clear. If you say that Jesus (peace be upon him) is more than a messenger because of his immaculate conception, then, Adam is more than a messenger, and more than Jesus (peace be upon him), because his creation is even more unique.

Why is so hard for you to simply be straightforward. See what you wrote - “Although, it is not mentioned…”, “..and doesn’t mean he didn’t…”, “we follow that which is revealed…”. I simply gave you what is revealed in your quran and instead of saying “That is true!” you end up going round in a circle?

It is clear. He was not more than a messenger. Also, if his sinlessness makes you think he is God, well, that argument was already debunked by God, in the Qur'an.
So, his "sinlessness" could have been a possibility to think of him as above being a messenger, though, not divine, but it has been made clear in the Qur'an that he was a messenger, and nothing more.

Did you see Jesus’ superiority “until the day of resurrection”?

He was raised physically doesn't give any superiority. He will come back, rule with the Shari'a of Muhammad (peace be upon him), and die, when Allah decrees. So, it makes no difference if Jesus (peace be upon him) is in heaven with his physical body or not, as all prophets alike are in heaven

So again, to you the fact that Jesus has a special place with God doesn’t matter. Tell him that when you stand before him at your resurrection!

You have not shown me anything that makes him have a special place. If anyone should have that, it should be Muhammad (peace be upon him) because
1. He was sent to mankind as a whole, while other messengers (peace be upon them), including Jesus (peace be upon him) were sent to their people.
2. He is the last prophet, and even Jesus (peace be upon him) will come to the earth as a follower of Muhammad (peace be upon him)
3. Allah says Muhammad is light from him, that he is an excellent example for mankind
4. Allah says that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a mercy to the worlds, that is, both mankind and jinnkind.

Was any of the other prophets said to be CHRIST? Maybe you should take time to check the meaning and implication of that word by yourself.

Please, tell me the meaning since you know it so well. If we are to follow what your bible says, then Jesus (peace be upon him) will be established as a false Christ. According to the Jewish scriptures, the Christ is supposed to establish God's kingdom on earth. Also, if he died, how can he be the Messiah. So, if I were a Jew, I wouldn't accept Jesus (peace be upon him) as the Christ, according to Christian views. But Islam teaches that Jesus (peace be upon him) will come back, and all worship will be for God (he will

establish the kingdom of God on earth. But guess what, he won't do it as a new prophet, but as a follower of Muhammad. So, since you are exaggerating his qualities, please, explain to me how the son of God, or God, comes to rule as a follower of a man (according to you)? I'll like to know.

If you are honest with yourself you cannot place the QUALITIES of Jesus Christ and Mohamed LISTED IN THE QURAN side by side

You are yet to show me any qualities that make him more than a prophet/messenger.

and still claim Mohamed is “better to be followed”.

I didn't claim anything. The same Qur'an you quoted showed that Muhammad is an excellent example to be followed.

If you do, it must be that you are DELIBERATELY DISREGARDING what the quran says about Jesus and decided to brainwash yourself in favour of Mohamed.

You are the one deliberately disregarding it, because the Quran States crystal clear that Jesus (peace be upon him) was no more than a messenger.
Stop applying pick, distort and use.
That formula doesn't work in Islam.

zionmade:
They believe in Jesus bla bla bla but they dnt think its worth celebrating his birthday.

And you believe he was born on December 25th? Even your bible doesn't support you.

Bunch of confused dummies following after a short pot belly tyrant.
Anyway who even needs Merry Christmas wishes from them. But for their salah meat I sanctify it and eat it not because i need meat but because Jesus taught me how to dine with sinners for d sake of bringing dem to light.
They can die in hatred WE DONT CARE

Ok

plainbibletruth:
Quran Says Jesus is Superior to Mohamed

Hate to disappoint you but here's what the Quran says on that;
3:84
Say: "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, [/b]and to God do we bow our will (in Islam)."
004:152
[b]And those who believe in God and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them - God will grant them their rewards; and God is Forgiving, Merciful.

What MAJORITY of muslims say about Mohamed – e.g. “he is the best of mankind”, etc – are not TRULY what the quran or HISTORY say about him. They (muslims) have simply made up those positions about Mohamed.

Are you for real? I guess you haven't read the Quran, just talking based on hear say. Sorry to disappoint you again but here's the Quran;
There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often. (33:21 )
And indeed, you (Muhammad) are of a great moral character. [Quran 68:4]
Well, who's better to be followed, than the best?

Perhaps they want to have a hero and as a result they have created a larger-than-life image of Mohamed. But the quran says differently. The picture of Mohamed painted for us in the quran is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from what muslims have been fed with and would have the rest of the world believe.

Refer above

On the other hand Jesus Christ is IN REALITY shown in the quran to be superior to all mankind, including Mohamed.

You are gonna have to show us that verse, cause I've never come across it.

It is a well-known fact that Jesus (and other Prophets) are individually mentioned more times in the quran than Mohamed.

Funny that you guys still say this. If that's the case, then even Jesus (peace be upon him) would be very much lower down the chain, considering that Musa (peace be upon him) is mentioned by name more than 5x that of Jesus (peace be upon him) is mentioned.
Or Ibrahim (peace be upon him), more than 2x, amongst others.
Also, since I've been talking to you, i haven't called your name, because I'm addressing you. The only four places the name of Muhammad (peace be upon him) were expressly mentioned were instances were God was using the messenger (peace be upon him) as an example, that is, referring to him, but addressing the believers. Throughout the Quran, God Almighty addresses the prophet in numerous places, just like Quran 68:4 i mentioned above, God says; "you", but that is referring to Muhammad (peace be upon him). So, this method of reasoning by Christians is totally fallible, and carries no weight. In fact, it can be debunked thrice in a minute by any knowledgable person.

But more than that is the fact that the QUALITY of Jesus’ person and the works he did (and is still doing because the quran states that he is with God – not in a temporary place awaiting what his fate will be) far outstrips that of Mohamed.

All messengers are in heaven, so, it doesn't change anything. Only difference is; while the other messengers and prophets of God are there without their actual, physical bodies, Jesus (peace be upon him) is there with his, because he is not yet dead.

Of note from the quran are the following:
1. Jesus was conceived by a chaste virgin – Q. 3:42

Well, Adam (peace be upon him) was made by God Almighty himself, Jesus (peace be upon him) was still in the womb, and carried for the normal gestation period of humans, and was born like every other baby, only difference is, without male intervention. So, if we are to compare on that basis, then the birth of Jesus (peace be upon him) is not even as miraculous or as special as the creation of Adam.

2. Jesus was pure in conception and birth – Q. 4:171

Well, no child is born with sin in Islam. So, this applies to every human, not just Jesus (peace be upon him)

3. He had the Holy Spirit – Q. 2:253

Well, he's not the only one. In fact, all human beings have this.
"Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: ‘I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud molded into shape; When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.’" S. 15:28-29

4. He is declared to be sinless – Q. 19:19

The verse says in summary that Maryam (peace be upon her) will be made to give birth to a pure boy. Although, it is not mentioned that Jesus (peace be upon him) committed any sin, but that doesn't change anything, and doesn't mean he didn't, or wouldn't. We Muslims do not assume, we follow that which is revealed and do not play "fill in the gaps".

5. Those who follow JESUS are to be made superior to others – Q. 3:55

That was during the time of Jesus (peace be upon him). Now, it is the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him), and it applies as such.

"And whoever is an ally of Allah and His Messenger and those who have believed - Indeed, the party of Allah - they will be the predominant." [Al-Qur'an 5:56]
Like the verse above, it doesn't matter which prophet it is, so long as you are following the true teachings of the prophet of your time, that rule applies to you.

6. He is right now with God – Q. 4:158

The Quran says that God raised him (Jesus, peace be upon him) to himself. Simply means that he was raised physically, without dying, other prophets are also in heaven, just like Jesus (peace be upon him). Doesn't change anything.

7. He is called CHRIST JESUS (Q. 3:45 & 4:157). “Christ”

True

meaning one that is anointed or CHOSEN to be special in all respect; chosen to save others; chosen with a special God-given purpose. A man that stands above all other men, including all the other messengers of God. One who has a superior and more excellent position above all other men.

Well, the messengers and prophets of God are above all of mankind, and have been chosen by God.
But nowhere in the Quran does it say that Jesus is superior to other prophets. I'll like you to show it to us.
Besides, if he is superior to other messengers as you claim, then, why does he have to come back and rule, using the shari'a of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)? Not coming back with his own shari'a, but as a follower of Muhammad. That's some weird superiority you claim there you know.

According to the quran he is “distinguished in this world and the hereafter and among those brought near”.

The verse it self already answers you. Read the word in bold.

None of ALL THESE applied to Mohamed.

Look again.

What Are the Implications of All these?

There's nothing in the your post, talk less of an implication.

If Jesus Christ is indeed all these then it means he is the TRUE LINK between man and God.
He was the true link, but now, the true link is Muhammad.
But the thing is such that if you follow the true teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him), you become a Muslim. So, that link (Jesus, peace be upon him) may have expired, but if you follow it truly, it leads to the true link (Muhammad, peace be upon him), that never expires.

[quote]It is just not enough to give him a PASSIVE acceptance as a person or as a ‘PROPHET’. He must be seen as one who is MORE THAN A PROPHET.

Well, sorry to burst your bubbles but nothing you said gave even a hint, as to make him (Jesus, peace be upon him ) more than a prophet.
In fact, here's what the God says in the Qur'an;
The Messiah, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.

If there is no name greater than his, then salvation AND ETERNITY WITH GOD can be found in none else apart from him.

There's nothing more to his name. He was a man, but a man chosen, by God, like others before him, to preach the truth.
Nothing more.

“For God so loved and dearly priced the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him (as Saviour) shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world but that the world might be saved through him.” Jn. 3:16-17

Funny that you changed the word from begotten to unique. Seems like you are ashamed of the word, considering that begetting is function of animals, of sex, and has been attributed to God by your bible. Lucky enough for you though, 32 Christian scholars of the highest eminence, backed by 50 cooperating denominations have ruled that the word "begotten" in that passage is a fabrication, concoction, interpolation, and is not part of the original Greek text, and have thrown it out of the bible.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT
Let's assume even for a second that Jesus (peace be upon him) has been raised above Muhammad (peace be upon him) in the Qur'an, even though he is not.
Does that not make you think that this is the word and final Revelation of God? If indeed the Qur'an was written by Muhammad (peace be upon him), with the above assumption, why would he make someone else higher than him in standard, unless he was compelled to do so (made to say it as such, without having a say in the matter). I implore every christian to be reasonable and think about it.
In case you didn't get it, here it is;
Applying the above assumption (that Jesus is greater than Muhammad in the Quran), would it make sense that Muhammad (peace be upon him) would make Jesus (peace be upon him) higher in standard than himself, unless he has been compelled to do so?

Omudia:
Distorted but the paedophile plagiarized it still.

OK

plappville:
E too pain you. Even with all ur efforts you still ranting with these verses yet unable to show one that JEsus and Disciples killed in the bible. Just like self clamed MUHD and his men killed millions to retain Islam. Poor you. Really poor you

Poor you. You didnt read about how allah was fabricated? Allah is a moon god. Call on the one true God of Israel. Not allah the moon god of the Arabs. Yahweh told his People this:


Exodus 3:15 ►
God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.' "This is my name forever, the name you shall call me from generation to generation.

from the time Yahweh told Them till Jesus Christ comes. They will continue to call him the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is the God of thier Fathers. Muhammad faked you people to gain credibility. But the Scripture is not at his favour

Jesus came and didnt say this biblical verse was corrupted. So it is still valid till date even if Muhammad has brainwashed you people to believe a lie. Those who search for the true God know He is the God of Israel. Not the arabs or Muhammad. Never has God called the arabs his people. NEVER, NEVER AND NEVER!!

I actually like debating intelligent people. The way you talk, and reason shows that you are not too mature.
That's the last chat we'll have on this thread, at least, unless you say anything reasonable. End of discussion.

plappville:
Hahaha, E pain am oo. He say Jesus kill lie Muhammad

Ok

zionmade:
Lol Anyway i asked because i think dat if u think dat anyone is perfect u shud be able to justify all his actions

If you are talking about the prophet of God (peace be upon him), please tell me the action you feel cannot be justified, and let's look at it truthfully.

Anyway story for another day

If that's what you want, no problem.

zionmade:
Lol anyway u re on point i threw the stone first apologies.

Mature mind.

But wont u mind telling me wat happened to her family

In what respect? You have to tell me what happened, because it seems you know, that's why you are asking.

zionmade:
Bros be civilized here its an insult to call the bible distorted. I hope u wont mind if i start raining insults on urs too.

I'm sorry if it came across that way. But you made a statement in your previous post above, that Muslims worship a moon god, which I actually found funny, but someone else would find insulting.
Life is about giving and taking. You don't insult me, and expect me to speak rightly of you.
Anyways, I'll say such things in a more respectful manner next time.
But, mind you, respect is reciprocal!

But before i go let me drop u one line.
Who is saffiyya

Wife of the Prophet (peace be upon him).

and wat happened to her family?

Why don't you tell me

zionmade:
Muslim dont share d old testament with Christians

True. Because it's full of distorted teachings of the prophets and messengers of God, and God himself, which do not conform to the teachings of the Qur'an, and hence, cannot be accepted as truth.

Anyway d fact dat a native doctor quotes some scriptures or rather twist some scriptures during incantation doesnt make it to be my God dat he is praying to.

True.

I guess u re not an atheist because i hate arguing any religious matter with big bang products

Salaam.

Junia:
Self defense must be based on wisdom. There are times you need to run and times you need to defend yourself.

You are right. But even running is part of self defense.

MORE ABSURDITIES FROM THE BIBLE
Deuteronomy
Chapter 22

25-29
25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.
26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days

So as you can see, rape is allowed in certain cases. When the victim is a virgin, she must marry the rapist, if the victim is not a virgin then the rapist is put to death. This law is a shame and insult to rape victims, you bring me one single lady who would want to marry her rapist, and if Christians even try to defend this then they are even more sick than their own book which says it is okay. So hence you now see that the Christian God, Jesus allowed rape in certain cases, this is why America separated Church and state, because Christian laws are sick as you can see.

Cc: Plappville

MORE ON THE BIBLE TERRORISM
Deuteronomy
Chapter 3
1-7
1 Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of
Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei. 2 And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at
Heshbon. 3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. 4 And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. 5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many. 6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.
7 But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves

Notice the killing spree, scores of cities were raided by Moses and his army by the permission of JESUS, and they killed women and children! What does the Christian have to say to this?

Cc: Plappville

MORE TERROR IN THE BIBLE
Deuteronomy
Chapter 2
32-37
And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land before thee: begin to possess, that thou mayest inherit his land. 32
Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz.
33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. 34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones , of every city, we left none to remain. 36 From Aroer, which is by the brink of the river of Arnon, and from the city that is by the river, even unto Gilead, there was not one city too strong for us: the LORD our God delivered all unto us.

So Moses and his army killed women and children. Moses broke the 6th
commmandment, thou shall not kill ANYONE. Or I see, when its in war it okay? Yet when Muslims say the 6th commandment is followed, but in war its different, Christians say nooooo.

Either way, The Quran does not say kill women and children, I CHALLENGE ANY CHRISTIAN TO BRING THE VERSE RIGHT NOW. We see it in your Bible, one of your greatest prophets killing women and children by God's permission, meaning Jesus allowed it! So hence Jesus was responsible for killing women and children, and so was Moses so, according to the Christians own argument, Moses cannot be a prophet since he killed. Note Moses and his army did this to many cities, verse 37 says there was not one city which was strong enough in the plural sense, hence up to 6 or 7 cities were destroyed with its women and children? What is the Christian response?

Cc: Plappville.
Please, defend your bible, or better still, shy away from it, because it's full of shameful passages.

plappville:
You cant prove Allahs army wrong. Islam = terrorisme.
signed by ISIS

What's this one saying?

Keep fooling yourself thinking you are making sense because this thread remains in the Islamic section where you talk no one sees you apart fron your fellow muslims.

Seriously? Right from your first post, I knew you were not a serious person, nor someone of intelligence. In this same thread, you've labeled yourself a liar, coward, a typical biased Christian, and a bigot. You have failed simple tests, deduced from your method of reasoning. You have failed to defend a tiny bit of the endless violence in your bible.

Your muslim brethren have pursue your Nigeria brothers to Chad where they have no life. Their kids are dying of hunger and illness. And UN are fighting to rescue them with humanitarian aide.

OK

While you are here defending the number one terrorist MHMD.

You have nothing to say. Just baseless and meaningless claims.

Pathetic Where is Saudi Arabia?

In Asia.

Why is Saudi not helping Muslims that are in such critical situation?

Ask the Saudi government, not me.

Today Suicide bomb in Syria killed 8, Yesterday suicide bomber in Pakistan. If not in Irak, its in Iran, If not in Afghanistan, its in Somalia or Sudan or Yemen etc.

Again, you have proven your biased nature. You have no case.
You are generalizing with those countries, yet you fail to see countries like Turkey, Algeria, Indonesia, Kuwait, etc. Go and do something better with yourself, and stop disgracing yourself all over Nairaland. This is like a Muslim, coming to label all Christians as terrorists, because of the actions of LRA, KKK, Army of God, etc, in recent times, or the actions of your Christian brethren in Spain, or all over Europe, or India some years ago.

Why are the Arabs/muslims fond of killing if the quran never proved to them that MHMD did same thing? Its all over in the air.

Commonsensically; They are driven by other desires, but use the cover of religion, especially because of people like you, who play directly into their agenda.

Why are Christians (like the LRA, KKK, Army of God, Aryan nations, etc) killing, if the bible didn't tell them to?
ANSWER: THE BIBLE TOLD THEM TO.

Islam is sa.ta.nic.

Says someone who believes the bible teaches peace. Please, say something serious. If Islam is satanic because it permits people to defend themselves, that means Christianity and the bible are worst than satanic. Imagine that.

Blood thirst mo.on. g.od. You ought to be asking urself.

I told you before that you need to become a comedian. You couldn't defend your bloodthirsty yahweh, who commands people to kill for no reason in the bible. Yet, you come here to say baseless and meaningless things. What a joke!

Why so much killing in the Islamic nations? Why no peace? Why so much pains, people giving up in despired?

Why do you generalise? You come here talking about pains. Do you know what pain is.
Obama openly regretted the killing of Gaddafi. Your so called Christian, western nation is known to cause chaos in many countries, meddling in their affairs to chaotic extents. Once it's a country with valuable minerals, which they can benefit from, they interfere, yet, if it has non, they abstain. Please, be serious.

Your biased muslim mind will not allow you to see,

Says a christian who fails to defend the plain terrorism in her bible, yet, says that the Qur'an, permitting self defense is terrorism.

Says a christian who generalizes a whole 1.6 billion Muslims because of the actions of a 0.001 percent of them, and neglects the remaining 99.999 percent, yet, says that the same percentage of her Christian brethren committing atrocities that bad, or worse, are a different set of people.

Says someone who paints Islam based on her own ludicrous views, yet, doesn't apply such views to Christianity.

Says someone who paints Islam black, yet, expects Muslims to paint Christianity white. Life is about giving and taking. You are a joke.
Once again, you have exposed your biased nature. What a shame.

instead you come here to fool urself yet unable to bring out one person that Jesus or His disciples killed.

If you say Jesus is God, then, i don't need to show you whom he has killed, but who he commanded people to kill. I showed you 1Samuel 15:3, where Yahwh (aka Jesus) commanded the killing of men, women, children, even animals. What a bloodthirsty God!

Face front because you are no different from the ones killing in the name of allah.

Just like you are no different from the ones killing in the name of Jesus.

You defend evil in the name of allah.

You defend the bloodthirsty name of yahwey.

You are moderate why Isis is extremist.

The KKK is extremist (though they are following the teaches of the bible and the instructions and commands of yahwey (Jesus), while you are a liar.

Both of you have same aim. Dominate the World by all means.

Both of you have no aim. You just follow the commands of Yahwey, and kill mercilessly. You simply want to kill all non christians, according to the commands of yahweh.

Junia:
Thats the best the world taught you or maybe your religion

Expatiate.

Junia:
That means you can also fight incase some group of people try to fight you ??

If you are attacked, there is nothing wrong in defending yourself.

[quote author=Junia post=54010311][/quote]The very fact that you have quoted this verse in this manner, in order to give a misleading meaning shows that you have hatred in your heart. I'll be given detailed explanations, which will clear all doubts and misconceptions, In shaa Allah, but you have to judge truthfully. Unless you are hear to fabricate lies, which I believe you are not here for.

1. And you will go to hell for not fighting
Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

The historical context for the above passage (Quran 8:15) is that it was revealed at the battle of Badr . A battle in which the disbelievers (Pagans) of Makkah travelled 100s of miles to kill Muslims in Madinah. The pagans had 1000 soldiers, while the Muslims all they could gather to fight back in defence, had only 300 soldiers. Even though Prophet Muhammad (p) had left Makkah to find peace for its community without being persecuted, oppressed, they once again were trying to terrorize the Muslim community.

Let’s read from Q. 8:9 to 8:19,

8:9 [Remember] when you asked help of your Lord, and He answered you, “Indeed, I will reinforce you with a thousand from the angels, following one another.”

8:10 And Allah made it not but good tidings and so that your hearts would be assured thereby. And victory is not but from Allah . Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

8:11 [Remember] when He overwhelmed you with drowsiness [giving] security from Him and sent down upon you from the sky, rain by which to purify you and remove from you the evil [suggestions] of Satan and to make steadfast your hearts and plant firmly thereby your feet.

8:12 [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, “I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.”

8:13 That is because they opposed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger – indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.

8:14 “That [is yours], so taste it.” And indeed for the disbelievers is the punishment of the Fire.

8:15 O you who have believed, when you meet those who disbelieve advancing [for battle], do not turn to them your backs [in flight].

8:16 And whoever turns his back to them on such a day, unless swerving [as a strategy] for war or joining [another] company, has certainly returned with anger [upon him] from Allah , and his refuge is Hell – and wretched is the destination.

8:17 And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

8:18 That [is so], and [also] that Allah will weaken the plot of the disbelievers.

8:19 If you [disbelievers] seek the victory – the defeat has come to you. And if you desist [from hostilities], it is best for you; but if you return [to war], We will return, and never will you be availed by your [large] company at all, even if it should increase; and [that is] because Allah is with the believers.

When we read the verses before and after, we get a clear picture that this was a battle. The killing that is mentioned in Q. 8:12 is on the battlefield, which took place 1400 years ago. When we read Q. 8:17 it says, that it was not Muhammed (or his companions) who killed the enemy, but it was Him (God) who had done so. Furthermore, Q 8:19 offers peace to the enemy, if the enemy desist from hostilities against Muslims,

8:19 If you [disbelievers] seek the victory – the defeat has come to you. And if you desist [from hostilities], it is best for you; but if you return [to war], We will return , and never will you be availed by your [large] company at all, even if it should increase; and [that is] because Allah is with the believers.

When we get to read the verses in its context, does it promote the killing of innocents? The answer is NO! Even when Muslims were being persecuted by the mighty army of Quraish, God Almighty encouraged Muslims to offer peace if they, the enemy stopped hostilities against them (Muslims).

Commentaries
The Holy Quran Arabic Text with English Translation, Commentary and comprehensive Introduction – Maulana Muhammad Ali
“19a It is related that when the Quraish left Makkah to attack the Muslims, they held on to their curtains of the Ka’bah and prayed thus; ‘O Allah, assist the best of the two forces and the most rightly directed of the two parties and the most honoured of the two groups and the most excellent of the two religions’. Others say that Abu Jahl prayed in the field of battle, saying: ‘O Allah, whoever of us is the greater cutter of the ties of relationship and more wicked, destroy him tomorrow morning’ (Rz).”

2. And you can fight every unbeliever because it is good for you.
Quran (2:216) - " Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

This verse, I have explained countless times, all to Christians. Seems like you guys are programmed to think this way.

The first thing to note in this translation is that this Quranic verse actually does not use the word "Jihad", which refers to striving to please God Almighty. This verse actually uses the word "Qital", which refers to physical fighting.
Fighting is ordained for Muslims in order to defend themselves and their rights, as well as the rights of others. It is sufficient to quote a verse from the Quran in this regard:

"And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help." [Noble Quran 4:75]
It is most certainly a duty of all human beings to help each other from oppression and injustice. This is what Islam teaches.

Commenting on verse 2:216, Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:
To fight in the cause of Truth is one of the highest forms of charity. What can you offer that is more precious than your own life? But here again the limitations come in. If you are a mere brawler, or a selfish aggressive person, or a vainglorious bully, you deserve the highest censure. (Yusuf Ali, The Holy Quran, Text, Translation and Commentary)
Therefore, the fighting ordained by God in the Quran is the fighting to establish justice and security in the land, and this is a duty upon all human beings. We will always hope for peace, but we must realize that without justice, freedom, rights and equity, peace will never be able to survive.

Also, if you read the next verse, it says
2:217 They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from God’s way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with God, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever– these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter…
It is very clear that killing innocents is a grave sin.

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

From the apparent wording of this verse, it may be inferred that only those Muslims have at first been held responsible to fight with those enemies of Islam who live near their territory. But if we read this verse along with the succeeding passage, it becomes clear that here disbelievers who are near you refers to those hypocrites who were doing great harm to the Islamic society by mixing up with the sincere Muslims.

Commentary on the Quran, Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas mentions (below) that the above verse was revealed in order to
fight the enemy, Banu Qurayza, a Jewish tribe who lived in Medina. They allied with the pagan Arabs of Makkah in order to exterminate the Muslim community. In short, they were the aggressors.

Commentary
Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
(O ye who believe!) in Muhammad (pbuh) and in the Qur’an (Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you), (the Banu Qurayzah, Banu’l-Nadir, Fadak and Khaybar), (and let them find harshness in you) toughness from you, (and know) O believers (that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)) Allah helps the believers: Muhammad (pbuh) and his Companions, by making them victorious over their enemies.

Yusuf Ali commentary
When conflict becomes inevitable, the first thing is to clear our surroundings of all evil, for it is only evil that we can rightly fight. To evil we must put up a stout and stiff resistance. Mealy-mouthed compromises are not right for soldiers of truth and righteousness. They are often a compound of cowardice, weariness, greed, and corruptibility.

The Jewish tribes mentioned above (bolded) were treacherous, and broke the treaty made with the Muslims. The Banu Quraiza tribe even went as far as not only allying with the pagan Arabs (by giving them information on how to persecute the Muslims), but allied with them physically, even in battle. So, the verses were revealed, in order that those tribes (referred to as "those near to" ), had to be appropriately dealt with, considering the fact that in a civilized state, that is the highest degree of treason.