₦airaland Forum

analice107:
Why are they unislamic? If they are, you refute them with facts, but all you did was jump off the topic and brought in trash.

You still don't get it do you? You expect me to refute a claim you have made without evidence?
It's like someone coming to tell me that the moon is produces it's own light, without any evidence or facts to back this up, and on top of that, strong irrefutable evidence proves that the moon only reflects light from the sun. Would it not be ludicrous if I begin to argue with him, when he knows, and I know that it is a lie?

You branded me a liar with no facts to prove your stance? Are Islamic men allowed to have sex with their littles daughters as long as the daughters are 9 years old and above? Isn't that an islamic Fatwa? Aren't women made to breast feed their men when the men wants to be breast fed? Who is the liar here? Try harder to defend dirty islam.
Are you sure I told a lie? Are you sure you'd have something to say?

And like I wrote before, I am not going to argue a claim which is clear to all that it is false.

At least I have a brain, do you?
See, you posted John Loftus, i googled him, have you googled Fawa sultan to know how long ago she became an atheists?
Are John Loftus claims valid? You can you stand them and invalidate your claims?
Do you want us to bring up claims made by Fawa sultan and see how the invalidate Islam?
Harouna, let's do this. Open a thread about John Loftus and bring up his claims to trash Christianity, bring up bible passages which gives his claims validity. I will open a thread and bring up Wafa Sultans claims and koranic verses which addresses her claims let see how it goes.
You called me a liar, let's prove who is a liar. I'm ready to do this.

Again, you fail to comprehend a simple statement.
Let me explain it again.
Whether Loftus writes books against Christianity or not is not my business.
But you tried to disprove Islam by showing a book written by an atheist. And I wrote that if books written by atheist are your "almighty attack strategy" then, they have also written against Christianity.
If you still can't understand that, then I'm sorry.
And by the way, I am Haroun. It's clearly written as my moniker.

kattytamer:
...the upper-cut
Cc rashduct4luv haroun13

Are you serious? A man who could not read or right, but would say as it was revealed to him copied all those things you are talking about? This is a failed tactic man. Try to come up with something better next time.

analice107:
All muslims are the same. How did you exposed my claims? You have not even tried to refute anything I said, yet you are here talking about exposing my lies.

On the very first page, you made some claims about unislamic issued fatwas
which were lies, so I branded you a liar. It's that simple.

I post info, if you feel they are wrong you bring facts the refute them, but instead of doing that, you go on to post different things entirely only to shout crab.

Why should I bother refuting a lie, a baseless claim?

Refute the fact that Muhammed didn't tell you people to be sucking women's breasts on the streets.

There is nothing to refute because you have told a lie.

Point out my lies.

Already did in my reply to your "fatwa" message.

You post Lotus, is this discussion about Lotus?

The way you write makes me wonder just how your brain works. You originally wrote this;

"Read this book, 'A God That Hates' by a Muslim turn atheist. True life."
And I showed you that if an atheist writing a book against Islam is your almighty attack, then not just a christian, but one who was even more than you, turned atheist, John Lotus, has also written books against Christianity. Before you begin to ask me if the discussion is about Lotus, ask yourself if the discussion is about an atheist whom you could not even name. Your posts are becoming ludicrous.

refute my claims you lying jumping muslim.

You mean your lies?

analice107:
Source? I just gave you a name of a living person and a book she wrote. Give me source and stop lying.

And I gave you the name of a living person. If you want a source, you ask for it. But the fact that your lies and deceit have been exposed does not give you the right to call me a liar!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Loftus

That's your source!

kattytamer:
...more like the verses of the quran were "revealed" based on the situation allah cum mohammed found himself...when at a disadvantage- be tolerant and peaceful, at other times- go on rampage.

Congratulations. Since you already had your hypothesis which you did not plan to give up even when a proven theory was shown to you, why ask in the first place.

You should have asked why God "planted the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden" instead...

And I would not ask such a question from someone who doesn't have the means to give a correct answer.
Allah simply asked them not to eat from a particular tree to test them, not a "tree of knowledge of good and evil".

anyway I dont know how you arrived at the number of people condemned to hell...or hades, but the Lord Jesus Christ the Messiah came at a chosen time in accordancce with the scriptures, after it was necessary to "give man the chance" to live in accordance to the Will of God Almighty by obeying His commandments...

You have no problem with writing "when it was necessary", but when you've been told that verses of the Qur'an were revealed according to circumstances, you let pride cloud your judgement. Why the double standards?

but like your quran also tells you, no one is found completely righteous in the Sight of God except Jesus Christ who is the only faultless or righteous servant, who died for the sins of many

Please where is the bolded found in the Qur'an?

(Isaiah 49:1-12;& 53) hence the fact NO ONE IS SAVED BY HIS OWN WORKS BUT BY THE GRACE OF GOD...is Jesus Christ one with God? Yes sir, you should read the Book of Daniel 7:13-14,27; and Chap 9 also before you choose your next words.

I read them, with the exception of chapter 9, and I want to tell you now that just as it is not scientific to follow hypothesis, when there is a proven law, with which the hypothesis disagrees, so also it is irrational to follow a book that has errors, with inconsistent sources (look up Bart Erhman) while there is a book, perfect, and free from all forms of errors, whose source is well established.

True there were so who considered Mary the mother of Jesus as a God among those who followed the apocrypha, and they were a minority, but curiously why did mohammed choose what minority followed to give an example?

First, the verse was revealed by Allah.
Second, you seem to have misunderstood the point. That verse of the Qur'an like I said is not debating on which trinity is followed by majority or not, but is saying that you should not worship Jesus or his mother (peace be upon them) and I quoted another verse to show you that whatever combination of trinity you have, it has been condemned by Allah.

Was he actually aware of the Holy Spirit? Who is Jabr?

Who is Tom?
Doesn't Jabr have a last name? Or is it only one person that has been so name in this world? Be specific.

Why are apocryphal stories found in the quran like Jesus speaking during infancy and turning clay birds to live birds at childhood?

Apocryphal? I should be telling you about apocryphal.
I should be the one telling you about apocryphal. Your Gospels were written by anonymous people, in anonymous places, and there's thousands of them, all differing from the other, yet this is the core of your faith, and you talk to me about apocryphal?

Could it be due to what mohammed heard from...Jabr or not?....the witch cries at night and a baby dies the next morg is just a co-incidence though.
And you still havent explained the essence surah 2:106 coming from a god supposed to know the end from the beginning.

"We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?" (Qur'an 2:106)

Do you know what it means to reveal something in stages? Why didn't your teachers tell you in KG1 that when KClO is decomposed, in the presence of Manganese(iv) oxide as catalyst, potassium chloride is formed and oxygen liberated? Right. Because you would not comprehend it, so you had to learn progressively.
And that was why I asked that according to your method of reasoning, if God according to your teaching knew that man would sin. If He did not, then I'm sorry. If He did, why didn't He send his son to die right from when Adam set foot on the earth.
And your answer would be; "it wasn't time" so why can't you understand that the verses where revealed in stages?

Mary/maryam or whichever way you understand exactly who i refer to.
Check surah 19:27-28, & surah 66:12; we all know from Moses had a sister miriam,a brother aaron, and their father was amram, maybe its just another coincidence Mary or Maryam the Mother of Jesus Christ had a brother called Aaron and her father was Amram also...

Okay? So what's your point?

Okay welldone merciful one.

I am not the Merciful one. All mercy comes from Allah.

...but still apostacy is punishable by decapitation and quran 2:191; 9:123, sahih bukhari 1.2.24-25 says what? Infact 2:191 says persecution is worse than slaughter...then what exactly is "personal jihad"?

Let's examine your evidences.

190. Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. . 191. And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. 192. And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (Qur'an 2:190-192)
123. O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous. (Qur'an 9:12)
When I informed you of the fact that the verses of the Quran were revealed according to situations, you refused. Qur'an 9:123 speaks about the Jewish tribes, who were living with the Muslims, but broke their end of the treaty and sided with the enemy. Hence the use of "adjacent".

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."
I believe this is the hadith you are writing about. Let me ask you a question. Does fight always mean a physical confrontation? If yes, sorry. But if no, let's go on. The hadith spoke about fighting the people until they accept Islam. Do you think that means to kill? Because if someone is killed, I don't think they would be able to accept anything, unless you think otherwise. Also, do you think it means to beat? Because that is oppression and Allah forbids oppression. So what is it? It means to fight against their disbelief, and Allah says;
So do not obey the disbelievers, and strive against them with the Qur'an a great striving. (Qur'an 25:52)
I believe you can now see that your interpretations are unfounded. Always do well to read in context.

but from the above he doesnt show tolerance and love,sorry u are wrong.

Actually, from the above He shows stern opposition to oppression and permits self defense, and still, showed love, because after this, He still said;
"And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful" (Qur'an 2:192)

But still you should beat your wives when they err...and when husbands err wives should beat them up as well...violence is bad dude.
Explain what? How old Aisha was when Mohammed consumated the marriage or what? You know your hadith better than I do so correct if im wrong to say she was just about a 9 years old child...thats actually not child abuse i guess.

If you say she was 9, which is in accordance to the hadith, I have no problem, but if you say she was immature, then I have already treated that topic;

https://www.nairaland.com/3664401/jesus-vs-mohammad-how-both#54288940

My points are my evidences, from "his" commands one could infer he is just the wishful imagination of an usurper...btw I heard mohammed was bewitched and at a point he was hallucinating things...hope you know what B.A.D; major episode: schizophrenia means? You should check on it with the symptoms.

Okay

That's The True Merciful God who gives people repeated opportunities to repent, but they keep abusing The Grace till Judgement suddenly comes.

Do you also bring out fire from your mouth

Smokers do.

Funny you no longer know the meaning of figures of speech.

Alright. Why don't you tell us the meaning.

My friend there is nothing written about the unlettered prophet by the Prophets of the Old Testament...The New Testament refers to him as the son of perdition or antichrist or false apostle.

That's like saying that because Neil Bohr's outdated model of the atom could only explain the hydrogen spectrum and could not explain the spectrum of other elements, then, the wave mechanics model of the atom which is even most correct, and can explain the spectrum of other elements apart from hydrogen is incorrect.
But let me tell you something. The name Muhammad is expressly mentioned in songs of Solomon, in Hebrew, but of course, your missionary brothers translated the name, in the English, such that you have "the praised one" instead of "Muhammad". Translating names is not done anywhere in literature except in the Bible of course, so as to continue brainwashing people. I bet if they put the name as it is, Christianity would lose more that half of it's followers, because you have no access to the Hebrew (which mind you was not even the language of Jesus), but rely solely on the English, which is translated for deceit. You can see now that even till date, the Bible is being tampered with, and undergoing reforms, and that's the word of God?

kattytamer:
Allah commands...indeed...why were the "tolerant verses" preaching peace "revealed" when mohammed was in mecca with only few followers, and more "violent verses" calling for war revealed when he was in medina and had alot more followers?

The verses of the Qur'an were revealed in stages, depending on the time, situation or circumstance.

Go study the wars fought by the Isrealites.
Who was Jabr? Was he the one referred to in surah 16:104 or they are more? How come you have so much similarities in the stories of the non-canonical infancy gospels about Jesus and Mary and those in the quran?
How do you explain surah 2: 106 when allah is supposed to know the end of each matter from the beginning?

Allah knows his creation, and as such, revealed his verses in stages, so as to make comprehension and compliance easy.
Now let me ask you. Why did your lord and personal saviour, Jesus (pbuh) not come down to die as soon as Adam was put on the earth? Why did he wait till billions of people (everyone who lived before his alleged crucifixion) were condemned to hell before coming?

And how can the all knowing allah say christians worship mary as the third Person of the Trinity,

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [Qur'an 5:116]
First, trinity is not mentioned here.
Second, go and do your research, it is no news that many Christian denominations in the past, and even present also consider(ed) Mary to be divine. And I wouldn't blame them. Afterall, a man cannot give birth to a god, only a god can beget a god. Just like a goat cannot beget a man and vice versa.
Third, your argument is based on the fact that your trinity of Father, son and holy ghost is the true trinity, and not those of other Christians which consist of father, mother and son. And I am here to tell you now that whatever trinity combo you have, Allah denounces and condemns.

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger from Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Three": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. [Qur'an 4:171]

besides mixing her for Mariam, of the old testament who was Aarons sister?

First, it's not Mariam but Maryam.
Second, quote a verse of the Qur'an to buttress your point because it is rather ambiguous.
Third, if your problem is with spelling, then please tell me the difference between the names; Mary, Maryam or Maria, if not language.

There is also the issue of the samaritans meeting with moses before they were even born.
There is no compulsion in islam right, but how come apostacy is punishable by decapitation

Apostasy is only punishable by death in a situation of war.

and you are commamded to treat non-believers harshly and terrorize them,

When Allah commands us to say; For you is your religion, and for me is my religion. (Qur'an 109:6)?
When Allah says; "Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful". (Qur'an 4:36)
And a ton of others.

I thought allah is supposed to be the most merciful and most benevolent?

And you thought right.

Why does he also promote domestic violence

When Allah says;
"And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought". (Qur'an 30:21)

and child abuse...even a 9 year old child that most likely hasnt even started seeing her menses...please!

Explain further and provide proof.

Allah who "acts" like a human subject to correction and change, is obviously nothing but an invention by prophet mohammed to give some sense to his self-seeking stories.

Bring your evidence.
Let me now show you a "God" who acts like a human.

Isaiah 5:26. King James Version
And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly:

Jeremiah 15:6
King James Bible
Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting.

2 Samuel 22:9
King James Bible
There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.

Btw how come there are numerous prophecies about Jesus Christ the Messiah from the Old Testament Prophets, from His Virgin Birth to His Righteous and humble Life and death but nothing about this your great prophet mohammed? Did "allah" forget to reveal this his special great prophet to the earlier Prophets?

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful".(Qur'an 7:157)

analice107:
Lol. Wafa Sultan was a Muslim from syria. She left.Islam not long ago.

So what? Loftus was also a christian, anf if you dont know, he earned a bachelor's degree (B.R.E.), from
Great Lakes Christian College in 1977 an M.A. and M.DiV., from Lincoln Christian University in 1982 and a Masters of Theology degree from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. He participated in a doctoral program at Marquette University but did not receive a degree.

He is, or was an ordained minister in the Church of Christ and taught apologetics for Great Lakes Christian College and Lincoln Christian University as well as philosophy and ethics at College of Lake County , Kellogg Community College and Trine University .

Gerrarahia.

Be reasonable.

analice107:
Mostly extended family members are the ones who do those things. Most of the stoning you hear it's when something like that happens and the woman refuses, she will be accused of adultery and be dragged out and stoned or flog.

Read this book, 'A God That Hates' by a Muslim turn atheist. True life.

So, because an atheist wrote a book against Islam, one should leave truth (Islam) and embrace falsehood (disbelief)? Your post is invalid because it's like me saying; "Hey Christians, read these books;

50 reasons people give for believing in a god
Guy Harrison, 2008

The Christian Delusion
John Loftus (ed.), 2010

Sense & Goodness Without God
Richard Carrier, 2005,

and hey! they were written by atheists.

Besides, you should check out Bart Erhman, a Bible scholar, and his lectures on bible inconsistencies.

analice107:
This is the age of satan. No one can stop it from happening. But, don't worry. When people reject peace, they shall have war. Islam shall teach the western world and they shall regret rejecting the Prince of Peace.

Give them 10 yrs.

Okay

analice107:
Hahana. why not refute what i said before posting this? It's because you know it's true.

And the very first thing I wrote, "another false post".

Allah is satan and Muhammed was his messenger.

Congratulations

analice107:
You have not heard anything yet. Woman are less than animals in Islam.

If i remember well last year or early this year, i read an article about an Islamic Scientists in Saudi Arabia discovering that women had red blood so can be considered humans just like men.

They only just realized that woman had red blood.
Laugh want kill me.

Another false post. But lemme give you the genesis of what you are falsely attributing to Islam.

It was said that the year 1746, in France, a group of very enlightened Christian clergymen got together in a very beautiful place called Paris in order to debate whether women truly were devils, or if they've improved on the thought of who they are. They had an intense debate for 3 days, pros and cons, pluses and minuses, and they finally concluded that they are humans, but with souls lesser than those of men, which was in contrast to the first conference held in London in the early 13th century, which had concluded that women were not human.

NLmember:
For real?
Ewww. Why does Islam hate women so much?

False information.
Why don't you ask yourself why women are reverting most, to Islam now, yet, "Islam hates women". Women are reverting in Australia, in the US and all over the world. Don't be deceived by liars on social media.

analice107:
So many Faywas like this one have been passed and enacted as law into the islamic faith. this is not the first. Recently, a fatwa passed that men were allowed to have sex with their daughters so long as their daughters agrees to it. To this, we didn't hear the Islamic Council protesting.

There was a Fatwa which allowed Women to breast feed men who are not sexually related to them. If the men liked to suck their breasts, she couldn't say no. If she refuses, she has insulted a man and can be flogged for that.

We didn't hear the Islamic Council speaking against it.

If hopefullanlord for example feels like sucking breast, he can walk up to any girl he likes, and she'd be obliged to bring out her breast and feed him.

Odi egwu.

I ordinarily wouldn't bother with this ignorant writeup but I have some free time, so, here goes;

I knew you were filled with bigotry, but what I didn't know is that you are also a liar and unintelligible.
Yet, funny enough some people actually took this post seriously, instead of doing their research, and finding out the reason why, what you've said above would be true, yet, majority of reverts to Islam are women.
Be reasonable.
I urge everyone to always verify posts before taking them as true.

plainbibletruth:
There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING, in all that you quoted that says that Mohamed himself was physically persecuted. Was it also "persecution" that made Mohamed to raid caravans? Did the people of Khaybar persecute any Moslem?

You keep claiming that the pagan Arabs did nothing wrong and that the Jews with whom the Muslims had a pact did nothing wrong by betraying the pact and siding with the enemy. So, you've been shown how the Muslims were persecuted by the pagan Arabs. The prophet (peace be upon him) never took revenge on personal injuries, so, whatever defense mechanisms the Prophet commanded was as a result of persecution of the Muslims, not himself.

If your “YES” is to be accepted, that would mean you Moslems can STOP mentioning Mohamed in your prayers, mention ONLY belief in Allah in your Islamic Creed, etc and still be Moslems. But you know (if you will be truthful) that Islam cannot do that because it has elevated Mohamed to a deity.

Look, your problem is that you Christians have been brainwashed into believing that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God, so, you think this can apply to the Muslims as well.
So, since you are the most ignorant Christian I have come across, get enlightened. In order for one to be called a Muslim, he must believe in God, His prophets (all of them), the angels, the books (e.g, Qur'an, Injeel, Taurah, Zabur, and any other book revealed by God), the day of judgement, and the divine Qadr (decree) of Allah.
Now coming to the way you reason, it would mean that all the prophets of God (peace be upon them), the angels, the books, the day of judgement, and the divine decree of God are all God. Perhaps you might just be dumb enough to believe that. Like I said, your problem is that you Christians have been brainwashed. If you are so eager to worship a person, I'll advice you to worship Melchizedek, your bible says he is superior to Jesus. He had no beginning and no end, I'm sure you know how Jesus was born, and made his mother unclean for a number of days, and was circumcised on the eight day (all in your bible). He had no family, we know the family of Jesus, his mother, Zackariah, John, even according to your bible, he had brothers, even though his mother was supposed to be a virgin, don't know how that happens.

You claim that you only believe in the “messengership” of Mohamed YET he is the CENTRAL FOCUS of all Moslem, not Allah.

It would be really dumb, if the president sent a representative to enlighten a people on his new policies, and the people then turn around and say; "you know what? We believe in the president, but we don't believe in his representative's office, as a representative." Yet, they claim to believe in the president, but when he sent them a message, they disbelieved. Plain stupidity. The problem of most of you Christians is ignorance.

No Moslem prays without the mention of Mohamed.

Another ignorant statement. We call his name saying what? Do we say he is God?
Please, be reasonable.

No one is a Moslem without the mention of Mohamed.

Please, tell me what you mean by "mention". I'm pretty sure you've mentioned the name Muhammad before, how does that make you a Muslim?

Mohamed is the example to be followed not Allah. At the end of the day you can see that it’s all about Mohamed!

When you say follow someone's example, does it not mean to do what he does, behave the way he behaves? Please, show me the example of God, tell me the way God "behaves", show me the way God " lives his life" so that I can follow his example. Your ignorant rantings are beginning to get too unintelligible.

How come Allah didn’t deem it fit to use this “FINAL MESSENGER” to list some of the previous Prophets’ examples for all to follow? How come no mention of other prophets’ names in the Islamic Creed even if just one or two others; e.g. Job and Moses?

I knew what I meant when I said your problem is ignorance. Go and do your research, because the Jews do not believe in the messengership of Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them), when a Jew reverts to Islam, and takes the shahadah, after proclaiming that he testifies that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah, he has to first testify that Jesus (peace be upon him) is the messenger and servant of Allah, before testifying that Muhammad is the messenger and servant of Allah.

What confers on Mohamed anything special other than that he was a ‘Prophet’, even if the last one?

All messengers are special, they are more than us, because of the trials they face, and the privileges God gave them.
But lemme ask you something. Drawing a similitude on a much lower scale, we all know that a new president gets elected every 4 years (according to the constitution of Nigeria), and say after a long time, you are elected to be the last president, and none will come after you, your rule will be till the end, won't it be appropriate to say that though all the presidents were privileged to get that position, you are the most privileged?

The Trinity is ONE in essence but three in personality.

Thank you, we are saying the same thing. Three personalities, meaning 3 different persons, one position, of God. So, if one person is God, the other is also God, and finally, the last is also God, how many gods are there? The answer is 3.

If the human analogy is difficult for you to understand or accept (?) let me use the sun: are the fireball of the sun which we see, the light the sun gives and the heat of the sun of one and the same thing?

No, they are not. The "fireball" which you see is the sun. The light and heat of the sun are it's characteristics.

Can you say: “I can see with the LIGHT of the Sun”?
Can you say: “I am being burned with the HEAT of the Sun?”
Can you say: “I can see the BRIGHT ROUND sun?”
Will these three statements be referring to three (3) independent things or ONE thing - the Sun?

Actually, the former is more correct. The heat of the sun is not the sun, neither is the light. They are only characteristics. We feel the heat, but the heat itself is not the sun, rather, just as a result of some radiation which the sun gives off. It's like saying that someone spat into a bowl, then the spit is the person. No, it's just something which he has given off from himself.

Mohamed has come and gone.

If death is your problem, then you'll have to renounce all the prophets you believe in, like Moses, Abraham and other prophets of God (peace be upon them).

Jesus Christ is still alive. Jesus Christ is UNIQUE. He existed before time. He came in flesh to take care of the sin problem between man and God.

So you are saying that he is not God, since he is acting as a mediator between man and God.

Because he resolved the sin problem he QUALIFIES as the only go-between for man and God.

Could you tell me more about this "sin" problem. Because it looks like it was too big for God to handle.

He overcame death by his resurrection; a proof of his victory.

So, where's the sacrifice. When you sacrifice something, you lose it completely. Meaning that you were only saved for the incomplete 3 days that he was "supposedly" dead. The sacrifice escaped, so, you are back to being lost.
Let's see this example. In the African traditional religion, they sacrifice to the gods. So, one day, they sacrifice a goat to the gods, then after 3 days (though incomplete), the goat rises and runs away. Would that still be a sacrifice?

As a result he became a once-for-all acceptable offering and PROPHET to God. No one else was needed and no other thing or way was necessary after him.

Even though according to you, he unoffered himself?

It is interesting that the quran calls him “Messiah” yet Moslems fail to grasp the implication of that title. It simply means that whereas the quran refers to Jesus as “Saviour” – that is what MESSIAH means – Moslems still refuse his salvation work on their behalf.

He is the messiah because he will come back, kill the dajjal (antichrist), destroy the cross, abolish the jizya, kill the swine, and during his time, all worship will be for Allah, and he will rule according to the Shari'ah of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Not because he was claimed to have gone on a suicidal mission to clean an inexistent sin, then, unoffered himself.

No other name or way brings salvation:
"And there is salvation IN NO ONE ELSE; for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved" Acts 4:12

Of course. Quoting Paul, who never knew Jesus (peace be upon him) but persecuted his followers. Here's what God Almighty Himself says;
"And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." (Qur'an 3:85)

701ecilana:
And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic." (Qur'an 61:6)
You quoted koran 61:6 Which was written 600 and something years after Jesus Christ had lived and died, and declared it more potent than the former?

If God sends a messenger, and as time passes, after that messenger has passed, [or in the case of Jesus (peace be upon him), been raised to the heavens], and his teachings begin to erode, in the form of corruption by the people, and God sends a new messenger, which would be more authentic? The new messenger, coming to restore the original message, or the corrupted message of the old messenger?

Yet you Christians say that spirit refers to man in the bible.
Pick one, then we can start from there
What do you mean by 'spirit refers to man?'

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1 | NIV
Please, what does spirit stand for here?

Christians tell you that as a human being, you are triune in nature. Ask what this ^^^means and pls pay attention when the explanation is given.
The real you can't be seen with the physical eyes. The real you is a spirit, the flesh (body) is just a cloak, a cover a material substances which enables you (the spirit) function in this realm.

The human being has an essence, which is the soul. The body is just a housing for the soul in this world. Hence, on removal of the soul from the body (at the time of death), the body becomes useless, and functionless. So, where is this "triune" nature coming from?

Muhammed was a spirit too who had a soul and lived in a body. He was triune too, like you. But he was not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not have sex with Children, He doest steal, He doesn't lie and brag about it. He doesn't rape slaves and definitely didn't of poisoning by a mere girl

No one is triune. Your essence is your soul. The body is a housing for the soul in this life, nothing more. Or, does the body function without the soul?
Using this to justify your trinity is just blindly arguing. Besides, even if for a second, we are to believe that the human is triune like you said, please, which is the essence (soul), and which is the functionless body (when there is no soul), amongst your "father", " son", and "holy ghost"?

The Holy Spirit is eternal, Muhammed is dead and your koran says he is in hellfire right now.

Is that so? Why don't you show me the verse? But you will not be able to, so, I declare you a liar like most of your "brothers and sisters in Christ" on nairaland.

[b]Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. [If there had been], then each deity would have taken what it created, and some of them would have sought to overcome others. Exalted is Allah above what they describe [concerning Him]. (Qur'an 23:91) [/b]Going by the above koranic verse its evidently clear that Yahweh is not Allah, so you insisting that they are doesn't make sense.

I never insisted that Yahweh is Allah. Allah is the creator of all that exists, Lord, and Cherisher of the Universe. If your Yahweh doesn't have these attributes, then your Yahweh is a false deity.

If Allah has not taken any son, but Yahweh declared Jesus to be his son and Jesus always calling Yahweh 'Father', do you think these two entities are not the same?

If your Yahweh fathered a son, then your Yahweh is a false deity, because Allah has created all that exists, and cannot father a child with His creation.
Besides, I thought your Yahweh also called Israel his son, in fact, his first born. Also called David his begotten son, Ephraim his begotten son. Seems like your Yahweh fathered plenty children, by your interpretation, so, he has many children who are gods like him. Seems like we are going back to Greek mythology, tales of Zeus, the head god and his many children, who are also gods.

How can one claim 'Jesus is my Son', but the other rejects having a son and yet you insist they are one and the same?

Like I said, if your Yahweh fathered a son, then he has failed the test, and cannot, can never be Allah, because Allah is the creator of all that exists, and cannot father a child with his creation.
Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent." (Qur'an 112)
If your Yahweh fails any of the requirements above, then he is a false deity.

Depends on what you mean by holy spirit. Allah let's us know that the holy spirit is Jibril (Peace be upon him). And Jibril and Muhammad are two very different beings. But if you are talking about the Bible passage, refer to my question above, answer it, then we can start from there. Hmmm, so allah says Jibril is the Holy Spirit eh?righttttt.
So, Muhammed being the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Jibril, that means Muhammed was Jibril? Wow. This muhammed guy must be some spectacular guy. He was an Angel, the Holy Spirit and a man at the same time. Yeahhhh.

Even from my post from which you quoted, I wrote that Jibreel and Muhammad are two very different beings. You obviously have nothing to say.

Right. The people of Yahweh. Lut (peace be upon him) who has been accused of incest for example. What a book the Bible is. You say have 3 coequal, all powerful gods, yet they could not prevent their messengers from faahishah (immoral acts). That's why the bible is full of false, unfounded accusations against the prophets of God. But, no cause for alarm, all those lies have been corrected by God, in the Quran
You know, I see where Yahweh (whom you claim is allah, but at the same time deride Him) took a stand against the incest committed by Lots daughters and declared that his people never intermarry with the chikdren which came from that stock. I See where he punished them,

I never claimed Yahweh to be Allah. If your Yahweh passes the test above, then he is. If not, then he is false.
Also, you say that these are the people chosen by God, yet, they committed incest, and they were drunkards. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) never did any such crap, yet, you disbelieve in him. This must be a case of misplaced priorities.

but i can't see allah punishing Muahmmed for peeping at his son's wife's nudeness, lusting after her, instigating a divorce and turns around to marry the lady. Instead Allah encouraged muhammed to go ahead and marry Zainab. What are we talking about here?

Provide your evidence for the bolded.

plainbibletruth:
Religion always has a way of making even intellectually bright people become dummies when it comes to its rituals. That can be proven throughout history.
Khadija who married Mohamed was an Arabian woman!!! It is not fair for Islam, which like ISIS destroys every document and monument they consider “un-Islamic”, to now turn round and want to make the world believe nothing good existed in Arabia before Islam. Was Khadija ‘marginalized’? Islam actually did more harm to women than it wants to admit.

Yes, like giving them rights to inheritance

Thanks to the availability of information today many issues can easily be found on the internet. A search will show you that pre-Islamic Arabia had legal systems they followed. This existed among the nomadic and sedentary groups. For your information there had always been interactions between peoples in the world. Many settlements of Jews were in the Arabian Peninsula – Khaybar where Mohamed was given the poison that eventually led to his death was a Jewish settlement; and the Jews had had a long history of Jurisprudence which those they interacted with may have adopted or modified for their own use if they had none. Besides, Greek and Roman influences were also there.
It will be a dishonour to the people and in fact deceit to want to claim that it was only after Islam that those societies became ‘civilized’.

Like I said, I have not denied their "civilization". But to say all their practices were civilized is fallacious. I showed some of their practices, which even you women would frown at. So, why the fuss?

KNOW THIS: the “persecution” of Mohamed DID NOT go beyond verbal attacks. No physical attack was carried on Mohamed. He was the one that initiated physical attacks on his opponents. If you think this is not so provide your evidence.

Philip K Hitti
"...The Quraysh - particularly its Umayyad clan - custodians of the Kaabah and the Zamzam, controllers of the caravan trade, and oligarchic masters of the city, had special reasons for resistance (to Muhammed). The new preaching might jeopardize pilgrimage to the Kaabah, next to trade their main source of income. Moreover, the once-poor orphan was introducing such dangerous economic doctrines as the rightful claim of beggars and the destitute to a share in the wealth of the rich. Additionally he (Muhammed) advocated a dangerous doctrine, one that would substitute faith for blood as the social bond of community life. If "the believers are naught but brothers" (Quran, 49:10) was acted upon, the entire family, clan, and tribal unity would be undermined and replaced by religious unity..." (Islam - A Way of Life)

Now coming to physical attacks on the Muslims.

Among the victims of persecution were: Bilal, the Ethiopian slave of Umayya bin Khalaf. His master and other idolaters tortured him in the savage glare of the sun of Makka, and they tortured him beyond the limits of human endurance. But he was fortified by inner sources of strength and courage which never failed him. Love of Allah and love of His messenger made it possible for him to endure torture with cheer. Abu Bakr brought deliverance to Bilal from torture when he bought him from his master, and set him free. When the Apostle of God and his followers migrated to Medina, he appointed Bilal the first Muezzin of Islam. His rich and powerful voice rang through the air of Medina with the shout of "Allah-o-Akbar" (=Mighty is the Lord). In later years, when the conquest of the peninsula was completed, the Apostle appointed Bilal his secretary of treasury.
Khabab ibn el-Arat. He was a young man of 20 when he accepted Islam. He was a client of Bani Zuhra. The Quraysh tortured him day after day until the time came when he migrated to Medina with the Prophet of Islam. Suhaib ibn Sinan. Suhaib came to Makka as a slave. When he became a Muslim, his master beat him up brutally, but could not break his spirit.
Abu Fukaiha, the slave of Safwan bin Umayya. He accepted Islam at the same time as Bilal. Like Bilal, he was also dragged on hot sand by his master with a rope tied to his feet. Abu Bakr bought him and emancipated him. He migrated to Medina but died before the battle of Badr. Lubina was a female slave of Bani Mumil bin Habib. Amin Dawidar writes in his book, Pictures From the Life of the Prophet (Cairo, 1968), that Umar ibn al-Khattab, a future khalifa of the Muslims, tortured her, and whenever he paused, he said: "I have stopped beating you not out of pity but because I am exhausted." He resumed beating her after he had taken rest.
Abu Bakr bought her and set her free. Zunayra was another female slave. When she declared that she had accepted Islam, Umar ibn al-Khattab and Abu Jahl, took turns in torturing her. They tortured her until she became blind. Amin Dawidar says that a few years later she recovered her sight, and the Quraysh attributed this recovery to the "sorcery" of Muhammed. Abu Bakr bought her and set her free.
Nahdiyya and Umm Unays were two other female slaves, and their masters tortured them for accepting Islam. Abu Bakr is said to have bought both of them and emancipated them.
Muhammad Husayn Haykal
...Abu Bakr bought many of the slaves and clients who were thus being tortured by the unbelievers. Among these there was even a slave woman whom Abu Bakr had bought from Umar ibn al-Khattab before the latter's conversion. One woman is known to have been tortured to death because of her attachment to Islam and her refusal to return to the old faith. (The Life of Muhammad, Cairo, 1935)
There were some other Muslims who though not slaves, were "poor and weak," and were, therefore, exposed to the malevolence of the Quraysh. One of them was Abdullah ibn Masood. He was distinguished among the companions of the Prophet by the vast range of his knowledge and learning. He had probably more familiarity with the ethos of Islam and the vitals of the Islamic legal system than most of the companions of the Prophet. Abdullah ibn Masood was one of the earliest huffaz (=men who know Quran by heart) in Islam. As each new verse was revealed, he memorized it, and he compiled his own copy of Quran. This copy was seized by Uthman bin Affan, the third khalifa, during his caliphate, and was burned.
It is reported that when a new chapter of Quran - Sura Rahman (the 55th chapter) - was revealed, the Apostle of God asked his companions who among them would go into the Kaaba, and read it before the pagans. Other companions staggered but Abdullah ibn Masood volunteered to go. He went into the Kaaba and read the new chapter out aloud. Next to Muhammed Mustafa himself, Abdullah ibn Masood was the first man to read Quran in Kaaba before a hostile crowd of the idolaters. They mauled him, not once but repeatedly, but they could not intimidate him into silence.
https://www.al-islam.org/restatement-history-islam-and-muslims-sayyid-ali-ashgar-razwy/early-converts-islam-and-their

Can you show me where Jesus “proclaimed the coming of another messenger from God”? If you do maybe I can better answer this your question.

And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad."... (Qur'an 61:6)

As a Moslem can you believe in Allah alone and qualify for Paradise?

As a Muslim, YES.

The Moslem Creed puts Mohamed alongside Allah. This means Islam requires a belief in Allah as well as BELIEF IN A MAN.

Can you say you have believed in Allah, if, you refuse to believe in His messenger whom He has sent, and ordered you to follow?

Belief in Allah ALONE is not sufficient. The focus of the Moslem is therefore not DIRECTED AT ONE GOD but on him PLUS another person - Mohamed. Q. 49:15

"The believers are only the ones who have believed in Allah and His Messenger and then doubt not but strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah. It is those who are the truthful." (Qur'an 49:15)
Thank you for this verse. Read the phrase in bold. You should understand that Muslims do not interpret the Qur'an as Christians do the Bible. We do not twist to give unfounded meanings. You are interpreting it in such a way as to make Muhammad (peace be upon him) God, which is a lie. But you only do this because your mind has been programmed to do the same with Jesus (peace be upon him).
“Do not exaggerate about me as was exaggerated about ‘Eesa ibn Maryam. Say: the slave of Allah and His Messenger.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6830.)

This then makes Islam inextricably tied to a man; the man Mohamed.
Islam INSISTS that Mohamed MUST be obeyed. This again means that other than Allah a man is given a position of a deity because it's ONLY a deity that it can be said MUST be obeyed.

Please, during the times of Moses, Jesus, and other messengers of God, (peace be upon them all), were they not to be obeyed? Did the revelations not come through them? How were you to succeed in attaining paradise if you did not obey them? Please, let's be reasonable.

Islam states that disobedience to Allah and Mohamed leads to hell. Q. 4:14 So Allah and Mohamed are again placed at par as NOT OBEYING EITHER ONE of them leads to hell.

Refer above.

For a religion that PRIDES itself in being MONOTHEISTIC it's interesting that some other person APART from Allah MUST be the focus of attention ALL THE TIME.

Your Christian Bible interpretation has clouded your mentality.
Would your belief in God be complete if you disobeyed what he has said, that you should follow his messenger in whatever he commands, because his command is directly from God (I.e, revealed), therefore, his command is God's?

Moslems are ACTUALLY doing exactly what they loudly proclaim must not be done and what they constantly accuse others of - obedience and focus on more than one God.

Muslims believe in the messengership of Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, and all messengers of God (peace be upon them). But you practice idolatry by worshipping a man alongside God.
If belief in the messengership of Muhammad (peace be upon him) makes you think he is placed on equal footing with God, then think again, because we have been commanded to believe in all the messengers of God, so, how many Gods will we be talking about?
Please, be reasonable.

Tell me, are you only a physical being or do you have an invisible aspect – a soul – in addition to your physical body? So if one say you are 2-in-one yet a single individual would that be a lie and something that “doesn’t even make sense”, and “defies all of the reasoning He has given us”, like you said above?

We are not two in one. The soul is the essense, the body is just a kind of housing for the soul, in this world. So, if we should compare, out of Jesus, God, and the holy ghost, which is the essense and which is the housing for the essense, which will eventually be shed (death), and will decay, and will be formed again?

Notice Jesus' statement didn't just stop at the three you listed above. It went further and you cannot choose part and disregard the other.
He said:
Jesus said: “I am the way, and the TRUTH, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me” John 14:6

Two points here.
1. "no one comes to the Father but through me"-If he was God, why didn't he just say no one comes to me but through me?
2. Similarly, Moses, Abraham, and all the messengers of God (peace be upon them), during their time were the way to God. If you disagree, tell me how people would have made paradise in the time of Abraham (peace be upon him) when Jesus (peace be upon him), whom according to you, is and was the only way had not come?
Similarly, the times of those prophets are gone, and now, it's the time of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Therefore, disbelief is him is an outright disbelief in God's commands.

From what you can see he also said: "NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME"

Thank you, refer above.

That is a statement that is for all time.

Two points;
1. Nope, but for his time.
2. If you say all time, what of the time of Abraham? Did the people know Jesus (peace be upon him) then?
Besides, if you ask the President who the commander in chief of the Armed forces of the federal republic of Nigeria is, he would say no one else but him, but do we not know that it is only for a time?

"And there is salvation IN NO ONE ELSE; for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved" Acts 4:12

Refer above.

lagostokd:
Let's consider the promise by Jesus of someone coming after him

"If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you." John 14:15-17

Jesus asked his disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the promised advocate (Acts 1:4), the promised advocate is the Holy Spirit and he descended on the disciples on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)

And [mention] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "O children of Israel, indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you confirming what came before me of the Torah and bringing good tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name is Ahmad." But when he came to them with clear evidences, they said, "This is obvious magic." (Qur'an 61:6)

Going back to Jesus quote above - Jesus said 'he will ask the Father to give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever - the Spirit of truth"
**Mohammed is not a spirit - he was human!
**The Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus cannot be seen or known by the world whereas the world saw Mohammed and also know him because he was human
**The Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus lives in the disciples of Jesus and is in them whereas Mohammed lived on the earth and cannot live inside Jesus' disciples - in fact, he murdered Jesus' disciples

Yet you Christians say that spirit refers to man in the bible.

Pick one, then we can start from there.

Until you understand that the word 'God' is not a name but a position, you will continue mixing things up

Alright. So, you have 3 beings occupying this position, and all three are coequal. This claim has been dismissed 1400 years ago.

Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. [If there had been], then each deity would have taken what it created, and some of them would have sought to overcome others. Exalted is Allah above what they describe [concerning Him]. (Qur'an 23:91)

Had there been within the heavens and earth gods besides Allah, they both would have been ruined. So exalted is Allah, Lord of the Throne, above what they describe. (Qur'an 21:22)


So, you really think that there could be 3 beings, coequal and powerful, and the universe would be in this much peace and tranquillity? Think again.
Verily, of knowledge, Mankind has been given little.

Every sane person knows that the Holy Spirit is entirely different from Mohammed.

Depends on what you mean by holy spirit. Allah let's us know that the holy spirit is Jibril (Peace be upon him). And Jibril and Muhammad are two very different beings.
But if you are talking about the Bible passage, refer to my question above, answer it, then we can start from there.

Stop associating your prophet with the people of Yahweh!

Right. The people of Yahweh. Lut (peace be upon him) who has been accused of incest for example. What a book the Bible is. You say have 3 coequal, all powerful gods, yet they could not prevent their messengers from faahishah (immoral acts). That's why the bible is full of false, unfounded accusations against the prophets of God.
But, no cause for alarm, all those lies have been corrected by God, in the Quran.

plainbibletruth:
7th century AD Arabia was well developed in many areas. It was not as backward as many of you are made to believe or you want to have us think. They may not have had the 21st century technology but they were certainly CIVILIZED in many fronts.
Here are excerpts from a study by the University of Oxford - http://krc.orient.ox.ac.uk/aalc/index.php/en/
on Arabia of those days:
“The numerous and diverse cultures which developed in ancient Arabia are monuments to human ingenuity and creativity within challenging natural environments. The ancient Arabs had extensive contacts not only with their Near Eastern neighbours, Iran, Mesopotamia, the Levant, Egypt and the peoples of the Mediterranean, but also with Africa and India. From a very early period, Arabs are reported as living in many parts of the Middle East and they were famous merchants. They were particularly associated with frankincense and myrrh which grew in southern Arabia, and other aromatics which they imported from Africa, India and beyond, and sold on to neighbouring peoples. This commerce in what were some of the most valuable commodities in the ancient world, together with their strategic geographical position in the Middle East meant that the Arabs were deeply involved in the life of the region and, from at least the 6th century BC, attracted the interest of the Greeks and later of Rome.

Literacy was widespread throughout ancient Arabia from at least the early 1st millennium BC, and vast numbers of inscriptions in a variety of languages and scripts have been discovered there, with more coming to light every year. Arabia was unique in the ancient world in having its own branch of the alphabet (the South Semitic script family), varieties of which were used from the far north of the Peninsula to the south. It survives in the script used for Ge'ez, Amharic, etc. in Ethiopia.”

It doesn’t take “a building with a blindfolded person holding a scale and a sword in front, and a man wearing a wig, and black robe, holding perhaps a gavel, and sitting behind a cabinet, with a witness box, and lawyers of the defendant and the state” to have some jurisprudence.
Jurisprudence existed in Rome and with other peoples well before even the 1st century AD.

The region had a highly organized system of trade and commerce. Do you think they ran such without clearly defined rules?

Thank you for pointing out their "civilization", even though I never denied it. But it might interest you to know that they also held festivals where they danced round the Ka'aba naked. Or that they used to bury their female children alive. Or that women weren't entitled to inheritance. It's you women who complain about such things, yet you come here to praise such society.

Very minute details of Mohamed’s life were recorded. Who do think wrote these details – dummies?
And you think that when it comes to the administration of justice they are suddenly backward into the Stone Age?

The excerpt you quoted really only duelt on commercial activities. Why don't you give us an excerpt on their judicial system, then, we can start from there.

There was a fairly well organized system of doing things. If Mohamed NEVER followed them it was not because 7th century Arabia was that PRIMITIVE. It was because Mohamed chose to resort to Neolithic way of handling things.

Nice one. Giving women rights to inheritance and stopping burying of female children alive must really be neolithic. Yet that is what the west has been trying to "fight" for.

That ISIS chose barbaric means and ways to operate the way they do does not mean 21st century Arabia is undeveloped; does it?
To choose to using JUNGLE JUSTICE speaks volume about the kind of person Mohamed was! Unfortunately, even though IT MAY be embarrassing to SOME Moslems (certainly not majority), the history of Mohamed cannot be told WITHOUT the mention of HIS violence, deceit and self-aggrandizement

OK.

What WAR are you really talking about? Tell us. Who was fighting who? Give us the real setting so that we can appreciate things better.

Your asking this question shows that your arguments have been blind. Is it news that the Muslims were persecuted in Makkah, by the pagan Arabs for many years? Or that even after the migration there were still attacks from them? Or that even the Jews of Madina with whom treaties were made violated those treaties and performed treacherous acts? That's what I'm talking about.

So if I follow the TRUE TEACHINGS of Jesus but not Mohamed, I'm wasting my time?

If you follow the true teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him), it will lead you to Muhammad. But you do not follow his teachings. But let's assume you did, but ignored the part about the messenger coming after him (because he preached that), and hence, refused to follow the last and final messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him), then yes, you are wasting your time.

According to you Moslems wasn’t Jesus supposed to be a Moslem who proclaimed Islam?

All the messengers preached the Oneness of God, all the messengers submitted in totality to God, in other words, they professed Islam (submission to the will of God), and Jesus (peace be upon him) was no different.

In that case, wouldn’t his TRUE TEACHINGS not be the same as Mohamed’s?

Just like I said, all messengers preached the Oneness of God. That was the basic message. Though some other things would be different, depending on the time and place of the messenger, but the basic message of the Oneness of God was the same.
For one to say he has submitted to God, means to obey God in all respects. God sent Jesus (peace be upon him), Jesus proclaimed the coming of another messenger from God. Meaning that the moment the new messenger came, belief in him was and is a must. If you don't, then obviously, you have disbelieved in the statement of Jesus (peace be upon him) concerning the coming of a new messenger. In that case, would you still be following the teachings of Jesus in truth? I doubt that would be possible since you just ignored a major thing he has said.
It's like saying that the even though a new President has be sworn in, the former president is whom you would follow, as the present one. It makes no sense. (This is just a similitude on a much lower scale)

Now, are you beginning to SEE that your TRUE worship is ACTUALLY IDOLATROUS? You worship BOTH Allah and Mohamed. Not one God as you claim. That is why you DAILY give reverence to Mohamed. DAILY!! Indeed like I’ve pointed out earlier, Islam and the quran are more about your SECOND OBJECT OF WORSHIP – Mohamed – than it is about Allah himself.

I'm truly amazed at this statement, truly. A person who worships 3 gods, saying that they are one, even though I have never seen where 1+1+1 adds up to one, says that a person who acknowledges only one God, worships him alone not even through his messenger, is idolatrous? Please, be reasonable. Your statement makes no sense.

I think DELUSION is when a person thinks he can stack up enough good deeds to qualify for God’s approval. How many good deeds does it take to make it to Paradise – 5 pillars for how many times and how many years? Is it to just fulfil the RITUALS no matter how else you live your life – lying, deceiving, etc or how bad you think towards others? DELUSION is when in the face of the quran’s uncertain assurance of Paradise you still grab on to that straw.

Another meaningless passage.

Jesus was UNIQUE and lived an exemplary life. Those are FACTS.

All messengers were unique and lived exemplary lives. If you want to know what true trials are, look at the life of Prophet Ayyub (Job) (peace be upon him), the trials he went through. Though, I don't know what lies have been fabricated against him in the bible, since the bible is fond of that, like the lies fabricated against Lut (Lot) or Dawud (David) and other great prophets of God.
Or look at the life of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

He was the ONLY one that lived a life that pleased God by ALL standards. By going to the Cross he showed that he was willing to die as a substitute for everyone else. God accepted his sacrifice of himself. Doesn’t it make sense then that anyone who comes to God through him will be saved?

It doesn't even make sense that 3 gods exist who have no beginning and no end [even though Jesus (peace be upon him) was born] and are coequal. Then one day, one of them decides to come down to the earth to die, for a sin which all 3 ought to have forgiven a long time ago (though he was supposed to have no end) in order to appease the other one. And then, one begins to wonder how these 3 gods are all powerful, if in order to forgive a mistake (yes, a mistake. What you Christians all fuss about, dread like hell, which gave rise to your doctrine of "original sin" is described as a mistake, a slip, in the Qur'an) one of them has to come and die.
God has given us the ability to reason. So please tell me, why would He reveal himself to us in away that defies all of the reasoning He has given us?

They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent. (Qur'an 5:17)

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. (Qur'an 4:157)

Could you tell me who else could make such an emphatic statement, clarifying all the misconceptions concerning the alleged crucifixion if not God?

Jesus said: “I am the way, and the TRUTH, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me” John 14:6
He still is the way, the truth and the life.

He didn't tell a lie, but now, Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the way to God.
Drawing a similitude on a lower level, Olusegun Obasanjo, like Goodluck Ebele Jonathan were in time past, the Commanders in chief of the arms forces of the federal republic of Nigeria. Now, they are not. Anyone who says they still are would either be ignorant or plain stupid.

felixomor:
The same Paul's epistle that you people say is corrupted is what you are now using to back up your jihad.....

Mscheww

The word does not need "backing up". It means what it means. The meaning of the writeup is that if you decide to twist the meaning of the word, because of your bigotry, then you should face the fact that whatever you twist it to mean, applies to your book.

This may be shocking to some readers, but the Bible has been translated into Arabic. In fact, if you open your Bible right now and peruse through all of the translations of John 3:16, “Allah” is the word used to refer to God in the Arabic version right at the top of your page. Therein lies the problem with the clash of civilizations that extremists of all sorts seek: There are many elements in the opposing civilization that are also part of yours. The hate machine however depends on making people and concepts as foreign as possible for the sake of demonizing them. This brings us to the discussion of the big scary J word . At a lecture at Tulane University a decade ago, I asked the audience what they thought jihad means. One woman shouted out at the top of her lungs, “Death And Destruction!” Her answer might be what many Americans have been led to believe about this word.
Muslim Americans often find themselves in an impossible place. Islamophobes define and impose their definitions of Islamic terms, such as jihad , in ways that are inauthentic and violent, and then demand that Muslims reject the terms and texts as they have portrayed them, or risk being deemed extremists for clarifying their meanings. The latest example of this is the controversy surrounding Linda Sarsour’s usage of the word to define opposition to Donald Trump in accordance with the saying of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him): “The greatest jihad is a word of truth spoken in the face of a tyrant.” Of course right wing pundits quickly pounced on the opportunity to not only demonize Linda, but the forbidden word that she dared to invoke. It’s too late to rescue the true meaning of the word now, they insist. But if we’re going to ask Muslims to remove jihad from their dictionary, what about Arab Christians who read the Bible in Arabic?

In 1 Peter 4:18, the word jahada , the root of jihad , is used to describe one’s internal struggle. It reads, “If it is a
jihad (struggle) for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?
ﺇِﻥْ ﻛَﺎﻥَ ﺍﻟْﺒَﺎﺭُّ ﺑِﺎﻟْﺠَﻬْﺪِ ﻳَﺨْﻠُﺺُ، ﻓَﺎﻟْﻔَﺎﺟِﺮُ ﻭَﺍﻟْﺨَﺎﻃِﺊُ ﺃَﻳْﻦَ ﻳَﻈْﻬَﺮَﺍﻥِ؟ ” ‏( ﺭﺳﺎﻟﺔ ﺑﻄﺮﺱ ﺍﻟﺮﺳﻮﻝ ﺍﻷﻭﻟﻰ 18 :4 )

In both I Timothy and II Timothy, we find two references to jihad in the Arabic Bible: “I have fought the good
jihad (fight), I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.” (II Timothy 4:7)
ﺟَﺎﻫَﺪْﺕُ ﺍﻟْﺠِﻬَﺎﺩَ ﺍﻟْﺤَﺴَﻦَ، ﺃَﻛْﻤَﻠْﺖُ ﺍﻟﺴَّﻌْﻲَ، ﺣَﻔِﻈْﺖُ ﺍﻹِﻳﻤَﺎﻥَ، ﻭَﺃَﺧِﻴﺮًﺍ ﻗَﺪْ ﻭُﺿِﻊَ ﻟِﻲ ﺇِﻛْﻠِﻴﻞُ ﺍﻟْﺒِﺮِّ، ﺍﻟَّﺬِﻱ ﻳَﻬَﺒُﻪُ ﻟِﻲ ﻓِﻲ ﺫﻟِﻚَ ﺍﻟْﻴَﻮْﻡِ، ﺍﻟﺮَّﺏُّ ﺍﻟﺪَّﻳَّﺎﻥُ ﺍﻟْﻌَﺎﺩِﻝُ، ﻭَﻟَﻴْﺲَ ﻟِﻲ ﻓَﻘَﻂْ، ﺑَﻞْ ﻟِﺠَﻤِﻴﻊِ ﺍﻟَّﺬِﻳﻦَ ﻳُﺤِﺒُّﻮﻥَ ﻇُﻬُﻮﺭَﻩُ ﺃَﻳْﻀًﺎ ” ‏( ﺭﺳﺎﻟﺔ ﺑﻮﻟﺲ ﺍﻟﺮﺳﻮﻝ ﺍﻟﺜﺎﻧﻴﺔ ﺇﻟﻰ ﺗﻴﻤﻮﺛﺎﻭﺱ 7 :4 ، 7 )

“Fight the good jihad (fight) of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.” (I Timothy 6:12)
ﺟَﺎﻫِﺪْ ﺟِﻬَﺎﺩَ ﺍﻹِﻳﻤَﺎﻥِ ﺍﻟْﺤَﺴَﻦَ، ﻭَﺃَﻣْﺴِﻚْ ﺑِﺎﻟْﺤَﻴَﺎﺓِ ﺍﻷَﺑَﺪِﻳَّﺔِ ﺍﻟَّﺘِﻲ ﺇِﻟَﻴْﻬَﺎ ﺩُﻋِﻴﺖَ ﺃَﻳْﻀًﺎ، ﻭَﺍﻋْﺘَﺮَﻓْﺖَ ﺍﻻﻋْﺘِﺮَﺍﻑَ ﺍﻟْﺤَﺴَﻦَ ﺃَﻣَﺎﻡَ ﺷُﻬُﻮﺩٍ ﻛَﺜِﻴﺮِﻳﻦَ ” ‏( ﺭﺳﺎﻟﺔ ﺑﻮﻟﺲ ﺍﻟﺮﺳﻮﻝ ﺍﻷﻭﻟﻰ ﺇﻟﻰ ﺗﻴﻤﻮﺛﺎﻭﺱ 12 :6 )

Crusade and Jihad
The fact of the matter is that Muslims use the term jihad similarly to how Christians use the term crusade. The Christian term can mean anything from a spiritual mission to evangelism to politics to military action, depending on context and the individual understanding of the person who uses it. Cru, or Campus Crusade for Christ, was founded in 1951 on the UCLA campus to “ launch spiritual movements.” The evangelist Billy Graham led over 400 “crusades” throughout the world, by which he meant non-violent missionary activities. (Unlike his wayward son, Franklin, Billy Graham had a softer position vis-à-vis Muslims.) The late right-wing Congressman Alan Nunnelee characterized his political activities as “a crusade to save America.” And last but not least, President George W. Bush clearly used the term militarily when he referred to his war on Iraq. To characterize Sarsour’s clear use of the word jihad in a political context as a call to violence would be as misleading as saying all Christian uses of the term
crusade are about violence.
In normal everyday usage, a jihad doesn’t mean killing Christians and a crusade doesn’t mean killing Muslims, even though extremists in our respective traditions may twist those terms that way for their own selfish ends.
Do terrorists and war mongers have scriptural justification for their actions in the Quran or the Bible? Either book could be read and interpreted in a way that justifies violence, but that’s true for pretty much any sacred book, religion, or philosophy. Violent interpretations say more about the reader than they do about the text itself. A violent person will find violence no matter what the words really intend, like one who “by peace shall destroy many.” But is the Quran a particularly violent scripture? This study here actually shows the Quran to contain fewer verses of violence than both the Old and New Testaments.
It would be far more helpful to focus on the sociological root causes of terror and violence, rather than let the extremists find validation in their unholy interpretations of scripture by affirming their ownership of terms like
jihad.

Here are some resources from Yaqeen Institute to better help you navigate:
Forever on Trial: Islam and the Charge of Violence
Jihād as Defense: Just-war theory in the Quran and Sunnah
Is Islam to Blame for ISIS?
Imam Omar Suleiman is the Founder and President of the Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research.
Disclaimer: The views, opinions, findings, and conclusions expressed in these papers and articles are strictly those of the authors. Furthermore,
Yaqeen does not endorse any of the personal views of the authors on any platform. Our team is diverse on all fronts allowing for constant enriching dialogue that helps us produce only the finest research.

Source;
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59669d05e4b051f16255e5b5?utm_content=buffere9ddd&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

plainbibletruth:
Let’s not lose sight of this: The man was said in the Hadith to “hurt Allah and his Prophet”. When did slander of a prophet become treason? If a head of a government is slandered, how does that become an offense against the state? However in order for you Moslems to explain away your Prophet’s decadence you resort to REINTERPRETING words and stories to polish his image.

You know, it seems you've run out of points. Didn't you read the inciting poems of Kab? They even showed you a statement by a non Muslim concerning the deep meaning of the Arabic language.

Let me simplify issues.

You are doing the opposite, complicating issues for yourself.

If like it is claimed in that article there was a “promulgated law” – now, we are not even sure whether it was a LAW or pact/treaty; you may need to clarify because the two are not quite the same –

Since you seem to be a very good lawyer, why don't you tell us the difference. Is if difficult to understand that there was a treaty between the Muslims and the Jews of Madina, and that the treaty, was established, with laws to govern the people?

why was a proper SETTING not constituted to examine the matter or try the alleged offender?

What trial are you looking for. The man committed treason. Mind you, that was 7th century Arabia, so, don't come here to paint black, what you do not understand, a situation in the 7th century, by using your opinions from the 21st century. Please, be reasonable.

IF an agreement was drawn up or a law put in place what were the terms and conditions - it MUST be clear to ALL the parties involved; shouldn't it?

And it was indeed clear to everyone.

Or was a one-sided law or agreement that only Mohamed had all the details and power to execute?
Why a kangaroo court?
Why was judgement and punishment given outside a proper legal process?

You are talking about a legal process? I'm talking about 7th century Arabia, and you are looking for a building with a blindfolded person holding a scale and a sword in front, and a man wearing a wig, and black robe, holding perhaps a gavel, and sitting behind a cabinet, with a witness box, and lawyers of the defendant and the state. Please come out of your delusion.

These all the more confirm my position that Mohamed had NO MORALITY.
And btw, this is ONLY one out of many other occasions that people were murdered with Mohamed’s approval or on his instigation. This (extra judicial killing) was done REPEATEDLY even when the circumstances varied.
If Mohamed ran an OPEN government or system why then resort to SECRECY? If everybody KNOWS the LAW or agreement and someone has been seen to have violated it, why would it difficult to have A FAIR HEARING to PROVE to everyone that such a person has broken the law or agreement and is liable to the PRESCRIBED(?) punishment?

Did the banu qaynuqa not also know the law? Yet they openly declared war. Admist the controversial situation, where the banu Nadir were also heated up, you are looking for a public execution?

This man in question ONLY used poetry. He did not carry arms. Yet this was enough for him to be SECRETLY executed.

That's like saying that during a war, a man can leave his state, and go to another state, and incite them to fight against his state. And when he is found out, he is given an award of excellence by his state which he just betrayed. Congrats.

So, again I ask: Since the man allegedly violated a law or agreement which, I suppose, was PUBLICLY KNOWN why the resort to a Kangaroo Court to try an offender? Do you want us to now believe that those who were BRILLIANT ENOUGH to draw up Laws and Agreements suddenly LOSE ALL CIVILITY when it comes to executing such rules and regulations?
Surely the Arabian world of the 7th century must have been better organized than that!

I'm not that old. But since you were alive in that period, kudos to you. Besides, that's the period we are talking about here.

Can you prove that Jesus’ prophethood ended?

First, I did not mean that Jesus (peace be upon him) is no longer a prophet of God, but rather, what I meant is that even if you were following his true teachings, if you do not follow the last prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him), you are wasting your time. And I went on to say that you are not even following his true teaching.

It still continues till today since he is still alive. He is only one who can be DEFINITELY said to be with God not awaiting any judgement – Q. 4:158 and referred to as SAVIOUR (Messiah) even in the quran.

Jesus (peace be upon him) is in the heavens, just like Moses, Abraham, and other prophets of God, as we know, from the narration of the night journey of the prophet.
Also, Jesus (peace be upon him) is going to come, live and die as we understand from Qur'an 19:33 and 3:185.
Concerning judgement, it is unlikely that the messengers of God will be judged, but I do not have sufficient references to back this claim yet.

His saving work does not depend on following any set of teaching. His saving work is in what he did on the cross. His offer still stands today:
“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavily burdened [by religious rituals that provide no peace], and I will give you rest [refreshing your souls with salvation]. Matt. 11:28.

Of course. The cowardice of man knows no bounds. That you believe that someone that wasn't there when you where stealing, or watching inappropriate things paid for your sins. What a delusion. Besides, that means if I accept that Jesus has died for my sins, then I can do anything I like, whether right or wrong, because someone already paid for it. Kudos. What a good way to deceive yourself.

plainbibletruth:
Mohamed, in hadith Sahih Bukhari is stated to have said: “If I take an oath and later find something else better, I do what is better and break my oath”.
This is Islam’s ‘exemplary’ prophet saying he can go back on a promise he made.

Yes, In fact, this goes to show how wonderful the personality of the prophet (peace be upon him) is. He didn't mind going against his statement so long as it was to help people. The problem most of you Christians have is copy and paste. You just quoted one tiny little part of a hadith, to slander the prophet (peace be upon him).
Now, you just read the hadith below

Book 15, Number 4044:
Abu Musa al-Ash'ari reported: I came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) along with a group of Ash'arites requesting to give us a mount. He (the Holy Prophet) said: By Allah, I cannot provide you with a mount, and there is nothing with me which I should give you as a ride. He (the narrator) said: We stayed there as long as Allah willed. Then there were brought to him (to the Holy Prophet) camels. He (the Holy Prophet) then ordered to give us three white humped camels, We started and said (or some of us said to the others): Allah will not bless us. We came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) begging him to provide us with riding camels. He swore that he could not provide us with a mount, but later on he provided us with that. They (some of the Prophet's Companions) came and informed him about this (rankling of theirs), whereupon he said: It was not I who provided you with a mount, but Allah has provided you with that. So far as I am concerned, by Allah, if He so wills, I would not swear, but if, later on, I would see better than it, I (would break the vow) and expiate it and do that which is better.
What an exemplary behaviour. He swore to those people that he couldn't provide them with mount (because he had none). But as soon as he received mounts, he went back on his word and gave them from that which he had received.
That is what is meant by breaking your oath if you find something better. Next time, just make time to read and understand, and you might just see the truth.

Now on the same hadith (Bukhari) 5:59:369 which I quoted:
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?’ Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, ‘O Allah’s Apostle would you like that I kill him?’ The Prophet said “Yes”, Muhammad bin Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). The Prophet said, “You may say it”.

I have no issue with the killing of Kab bin Al ashraf. His was a matter of treason. His people agreed to a pact/treaty with the Muslims, of which he was a member. And one of the stipulations of the treaty was that no person involved was to aid the enemies of either parties. But Kab bin Al ashraf went against that by inciting the pagan Arabs to war against the Muslims and not just that, but also slandering the women with his poetry.
Just like from the article, it was stated;
"As Philip K. Hitti himself notes,
No people in the world, perhaps, manifest such enthusiastic admiration for literary expression and are so moved by the word, spoken or written, as the Arabs. Hardly any language seems capable of exercising over the minds of its users such irresistible influence as Arabic."

Look at what a comment on the SITE you referred me to said: “By slandering the Prophet, … and by showing sympathy for the enemies of the Muslims (lamenting their dead and inciting them against the Muslims) …. His blood could be shed with IMPUNITY. (Emphasis mine).

Please tell me where in the world treason against the state has been rewarded. The punishment for treason is death.

The article goes on to say: “The exigencies of the State required that WHATEVER SHOULD BE DONE should be done swiftly and noiselessly upon those whom public opinion had arraigned and condemned”. (Emphasis mine).

It was necessary for it to be done that way, considering the fact that the banu qaynuqa already displayed their treachery, Kab's people would have resorted to violence, and innocent lives would have been lost, even if it was clear to them that their kinsman had committed treason. In order to avoid such blood shed, it had to be done that way.

There are many things to say against that article, but in order not to complicate the trend here suffice it to say that taking the CONCLUSION of the article ALONE is enough to put a nail to its coffin. How can a person say there is INFRINGEMENT of “the PROMULGATED LAW”

This part is clear. Kab committed treason.

and then claim that a SECRET EXECUTION was justified in administering judgement?

It was necessary to prevent loss of innocent lives like I explained above.

What is “public opinion” doing arraigning and condemning IF a “promulgated Law” exists? Where they in a BANANA REPUBLIC? And then to add a DISCLAIMER he ends as many of you have learnt to do – “And only God knows best!”

Yes, only God knows best. Unless you want to argue that you know better than God.

This is obviously an attempt to make the VICTIM the VILLAIN in order to COVER UP the Prophet of Islam. Unfortunately it does not add up to any objective scrutiny.

There is no make of victim and villain here. The circumstances of the situation, showed that that was the safest method in handling the issue.

This is a ‘Prophet’ calling for the DEATH of someone who offended him

This is not the issue, because many people had slandered the prophet and they were not harmed. The major reason for his death was treason. And I said "show me a place in the world were treason has been rewarded".

then approving that LIE be told in order to achieve such a despicable thing.

You need to be open minded to see that this was the best way to go about it. Now just imagine the ruckus it would have caused, if they had made it an open affair. Mind you, the banu Nadir later declared war against the Muslims, breaking the pact. Now imagine what they would have done, knowing their kinsman was to be executed, even if it was for treason.

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE did Jesus engage in nor prescribe any such thing as these!

Under no circumstances did Jesus (peace be upon him) and those who followed him enter a pact with, say the Pharisees for example, and was betrayed by one of them. The circumstances are incomparable.

If lying can be made permissible then the human being can ALWAYS find a REASON to make the lie fall under what is permissible. When that happens the lying becomes norm rather than an exception.

You are trying to twist things here. Where did I say lying is a norm. In fact, I said that lying is indeed a sin, and a major one. But thankfully, God has made life easy for everyone, and as such in matters of life and death, it could be permissible, if it would save the life of the person in danger, provided other innocent people are not endangered in the process. I gave you the example of the story of a woman and her husband, whose home was invaded by robbers. You can point out what is wrong from that story.

The summary is this: Mohamed had no MORALITY.

Your saying, just like your missionary brethren have said before you, but it holds no water and carries no weight.

The end justified the means for him. Clearly LYING was one of those means for him as Islamic literature unmistakably show.

Still carries no weight.

Only a change of heart which only Jesus Christ can bring about can truly change a person to be what God wants him to be. That is why he said: “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavily burdened [by religious rituals that provide no peace], and I will give you rest [refreshing your souls with salvation]. Matt. 11:28.

The time of the prophethood of Jesus (peace be upon him) ended 1400 years ago. Jesus (peace be upon him) cannot save you now, even if you were following his true teachings [except you follow him, and the last and final prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him)]. But you are not even following his teachings to begin with.

Carbuyer83:
Can anyone provide detailed information on this phone brand (Oukitel K6000 Pro) based on experience? Is it recommended for buy at 46k or are there better alternatives with similar price?

Oukitel K6000 Pro Key Specs & Features

5.5-inch IPS Display, 1080 x 1920 pixels (403ppi)

1.3GHz octa-core MediaTek MT6753 CPU

3GB RAM

Android 6.0 (Marshmallow)

6000 mAh Battery with Fast Charging

32GB Storage, up to 32GB memory card

13MP Rear Camera and 5MP Front Camera

4G LTE (up to 150 Mbps download)

Fingerprint Sensor (Rear)


Thanks.

You should try it. The specs are impressive, so also are the reviews of users worldwide.

Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihir raji'uun. May Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) give her afuw and grant her jannah.
May Allah assist you and your family in this trying period.

.

plainbibletruthpost=58099384:
If lying is prohibited BUT could be made permissible what are we to make of it? That there is really no standard of MORALITY in Islam?

You are allowing your bias towards Islam to cloud your judgement. Like the example I gave, a fasting person, breaking his fast before dusk is a grave sin, but if for example, that person has, say an accident, and after treatment, he is asked by the doctor to eat, he should eat, and break the fast, because it's a matter of life and death. So also, in a situation of life and death, lying can be permitted.
For example, the story a of woman and her husband, whose house was raided by robbers. The woman was brave but unarmed. The man on the other hand had a machete, but was shivering because he was scared. When the woman saw the situation, she told the robbers that when her husband starts shivering like that, he is ready to kill, even though that wasn't true. But she said that to the robbers, and as a result, they left.

Mohamed raided caravans all over the Arabian Peninsula. In virtually every one, Moslems were the aggressors, pushing to accomplish the big objective of taking over the economic and political power in the region.

In the çourse of the battle of the Trenches Mohamed plotted deceit.

A recent convert to Islam, Nuaym, of the Ghatafan tribe, offered to be part of the deception plan. Muhammad set out on a plan, using Nuaym’s affiliations with the Quraysh and the Jews:

The apostle said: 'You are only one man among us, so go and awake distrust among the enemy to draw them off us if you can, for war is deceit.' Thereupon Nutaym went off to B. Quray?

Well, I have not seen any war where one side tells the other side their true plans and tactics, that would be plain stupid.

Sura 33:25-27:
25 Allah turned back the unbelievers [Meccans and their allies] in a state of rage, having not won any good, and Allah spared the believers battle [q-t-l]. Allah is, indeed, Strong and Mighty. 26 And He brought those of the People of the Book [Qurayza] who supported them from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts, some of them you slew [q-t-l] and some you took captive. 27 And he bequeathed to you their lands, their homes and their possessions, together with land you have never trodden. Allah has power over everything.

If you have a problem with the verse, put it forward.

Eventually the Jews accepted to sign some form of agreement. But Mohamed reneged on this and ended up murdering the hundreds of Jews including young boys.

Baseless.

For example, in Hadith (Bukhari) 5:59.369, Moslems can lie and pretend in some situations:

"Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it."

https://www.bismikaallahuma.org/islam/what-about-the-killing-of-kaab-bin-al-ashraf/
Visit that site concerning the killing of Kaab bin al ashraf.

There is the answer as to whether Muslims can lie and do much more.

Salaam

lagostokd:
You're a true Muslim by this your reply

الحمدلله

because not agreeing with my post only proves the point am making.

You haven't made any point yet. When you do, I'll still be here, In shaa Allah.

Am not new to this type of response because that's the norm.

OK.

1. First, ask for verses to justify a claim

This is of paramount importance because I do not follow, except what has been revealed in the Qur'an and Authentic hadith, so, if you can't provide evidence from these sources to justify your claims, then your claims are irrelevant.

2. After providing the verse, then you'll claim it's quoted out of context

Nope. I'll explain them. But if you have truly quoted out of context, then you have. But like I said, you will never be able to provide any evidence.

3. Then the trail continues...

A lot of people have written about these lies by the Qur'an... Those that have ears will know

A lot of people? Perhaps, you do not understand. I do not follow "a lot of people", I follow the Qur'an and authentic hadith.
Provide your proof (though you can never) or rest your case.

lagostokd:
Are all true Muslims expected to lie?

I hope you are posting for knowledge.
Lying is a sin, and a major one, no doubt. But Allah, (Glorified and Exalted) is He has created us, and knows us better than we know ourselves, and has made life easy for us. In a matter of life and death, something which is normally prohibited could be made permissible.
For example, when fasting, deliberately eating food during the fasting hours is a grave sin. But if it becomes a matter of life and death, then one can eat, and it is no sin on him.

Consider this post and comment

There are lots of Islamic sanctioned lies expected of all true Muslims making it appear that if any Muslim does NOT lie about JIHAD, he has left Islam.

When you make claims so bold, you have to back them with authentic Islamic sources, but you will never find authentic sources to back the above claim, and I will have to declare you a liar. No offence though.

There are SIX DIFFERENT WAYS of deception that are permissible in Islam:

1) taqiyya
2) kitman
3) tawriya
4) taysir
5) darura
6) muruna

•Taqiyya (Shia) or Muda’rat (Sunni): tactical deceit for the purposes of spreading Islam

I'm really marvelled at the posts some people write. How can one use deceit to spread truth? This makes no sense.

•Kitman: deceit by omission

•Tawriya: deceit by ambiguity

•Taysir: deceit through facilitation (not having to observe all the tenets of Sharia)

•Darura: deceit through necessity (to engage in something “Haram” or forbidden)

•Muruna: the temporary suspension of Sharia to make Muslim migrants appear “moderate.”

Like I said, provide your proofs, and you can never provide them, so, I declare you a liar.

Furthermore, through the principle of ‘hijra’ (Muslim immigration), the first Muslims to enter a territory lay a red herring of ‘peaceful Islam’. The first ‘peaceful’ Muslim immigrants actually constitute a Trojan horse. The Kafir or Kufaar community gets the false sense that the early immigrants are not a threat, at least not until the Muslim community has gained strength of numbers. When Muslims become strong, they aggressively begin to demand Sharia law against the will of the kafir victims of supremacism. This creeping persecution against the host culture begins and continues until Islam becomes the supreme and unanswerable political ideology in the territory. When the territory becomes officially Islamic, the persecution of non-Muslims goes into full gear to humiliate and inconvenience them to the extent that they will convert to Islam in order to avoid Islam’s official policy of persecution. Jihad is warfare against disbelievers. Deception is a huge part of jihad.

Do as above.

Allah is the greatest deceiver – “Allahu khayru al-makireena” – K. 3:54; cf. 8:30

So you've also been conned into believing that makr means to deceive. That's too bad.
But just so you know, makr or the inflected forms, means to plan, or plot, that is why there is makr as sayy (evil plot, or plan), as in Quran 35:43. And there is the plan of Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He).
Finally, I don't think you have read the verses you quoted, but just the usual copy and paste. Because if you did, perhaps you would see the truth. And while reading, you should check for notable translators like Pickthall or Saheeh International, Yusuf Ali, etc.

udatso:
Oh. Please check again it's 1280x 720.
It's not FHD. And it's quad-core and not octacore

Nope. What you are talking about is the oukitel k6000, I'm talking about the k6000 pro. They are different. Or rather, the pro is upgrade of the k6000

udatso:
Thanks bro but It's not a fHd.

It's a 1080p IPS display

And processor is just 1ghtz.

1.3GHz, but at least, it's got 8 cores

Have you used one plus phones before?

No, I haven't.

.

I'd advice you to consider the oukitel k6000 pro. Here's some of the specs;

CPU- Octa-Core 1.3 GHz ARM Cortex A-53
Chipset – Mediatek MT6753
Camera – 13 MP Rear Camera With LED Flash | 5 Megapixel Front Camera
RAM- 3GB | ROM- 32GB Internal Storage memory
Display – Screen size 5.5 inches, IPS HD
Dimension & Weight – 153.4 mm × 77 mm × 9.5 mm, 205g
Battery – Non-removable 6000 mAh Lithium-Polymer Battery with Fast Charging
Dual SIM with Micro SIM Compatibility
Support 2G/3G/4G Networks with a data speed of Download Up to 21.2 Mbps, Upload Up to 5.76 Mbps in 3G UMTS and 150/50 Mbps in 4G.
Sensors – Accelerometer, Fingerprint, Proximity sensor, Light sensor, Fingerprint
Color – Black and Gray
Operating System: Android 6.0 Marshmallow OS
For protection, it has dragontrail glass 2, and is scratch resistant.
You can get it on jumia at #75 200. But with current discount, you can get it for about #60 120