₦airaland Forum

BabaRamota1980:
Nobody is shifting goalpost. It is a very valid question. Yanminri was the slave of Ijaw, of Igala and of Benin. I suspect even Efik or Ibibio enslaved you if we dig deep. In fact the name Ibo is a denigration, in past people did not want to be known as Ibo because it identifies a slave group.

Ilorin is lost to Sokoto Caliphate forever and it's people will remain slaves to the north eternaly

BabaRamota1980:
I bear witness. Edo witchery collapses at Tao's feet.

When I cath an Edo witch in the nightsky i snap their freak broom.

Im going to flog yanminri with that witch stick.

Dahomey women are coming for your head

BabaRamota1980:
Answer and stop posting your ancestor for distraction abeg.

Answer you chest beatings yourself

TAO11:
Thanks for proving that you couldn’t muster an intelligent reply in the light of evidence proof and reason.

Speaking English won't fool anybody ,How does Ife in West translate to Ogane that reigns supreme in the east?, There really couldn't not exist any better fact than that IFE lies to the west not east

BabaRamota1980:
Hahahahahaha...

Go far and wide, North Africa, East Africa, West Africa, South Africa, Central Africa, does anyone need to ask about Ife or Oyo Kings? Does anyone need to ask about Benin Kings or Igala Kings? Their history goes before them.

Why doesnt anyone anywhere know of Nri beside omoibo?

Chest beating on fleek.....They even know Ife and Oyo kings in Mars and Pluto

TAO11:
I have already debunked this apocryphal, pseudo-historical, and deliberately unauthentic account here.

You seem clueless of what else to bring up. Even the Binis don’t dare me with all these crap. They fear me more than their parents.

You can chest beat all you like, Your cut and join facst can only fool your Fellow yeroba

TAO11:
No, west is not east. Rather, Ife is known in ancient times by the religious epithet of “East” — the place from where the sun rises. This is well established.

I understand your frustrations though. I would also feel extremely ashamed and frustrated if I was Igbo.

You are frustrated because IFE has refused to move to the east so you can be right ......Ogane was a bad ass NRI priest king

BabaRamota1980:
This history also exist with yanminri.

No where in historical collections, not even Dahomey claimed it. Yanminri of course believes it, just as you do an Nri that never existed anywhere in historical library beside what Ibo say.

Should your neighbors not know about this yeye Nri if true there is something like that?

Who have you asked that did not know?...Fraud

TAO11:
No West is not east. Rather, Ife is known in ancient times by the religious epithet of “East” — the place from where the sun rises.

I understand your frustrations though. I would also feel extremely ashamed and frustrated if I was Igbo.

You should feel ashamed for trying to turn west to east just so Ooni can be the Ogale, Yeroba history is a fraud, And Bini people have learnt to resist your fraudulent antics

TAO11:
I am glad you’re gradually admitting your incompetence.

However, in addition to the summary given in Adam Knobler’s Mythology and Diplomacy in the Age of Exploration (2016) as attached; you may also refer, for some details, to: Robin Horton’s “Ancient Ife: A Reassessment”, Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol 9, No. 4 (June 1979), pp. 69-149.

Type that reference into what is known as “Google” you would find some materials, although you may have to pay to download and access them fully.

Good luck beginning what I began many years ago.

Bros you have been proven to be a fraud ....Since West is East in your own world whatelse do we have to argue about?...you are clearly living in Lala land

BabaRamota1980:
Fulani ackwnoeldges that Yoruba had kingdoms.

Who in Africa acknowledges Ibo kingdom? Nobody beside Ibo.

Funfact

Did you know That Oyo p***sy Ass soldiers were routed in some battles by a Band of women fighters in Dahomey, Present day Benin Republic?

Google Dahomey Amazons....Laugh wan kill me

BabaRamota1980:
Fulani ackwnoeldges that Yoruba had kingdoms.

Who in Africa acknowledges Ibo kingdom? Nobody beside Ibo.

Fulani acknowledged that Yerobas had kingdom by snatching Ilorin?....they could only attempt that cos they knew it was a p***ssy ass kingdom

BabaRamota1980:
The act the Oba was observed performing was religious. He faced East to give veneration to his ancestors in Ife.

Not that his ancestors were from East, but ancient customs of Sun worahipping is embedded in all religions.

Like I said, if Muslims in Benin prayed facing East, as they do, does it mean Mohammed is an Iboman?

Bia Olajide stop shifting our goal post, which Kain scatter scatter arguement be this?

BabaRamota1980:
Your colonizer Igala does not even know anything called Nri.

Igbo remains enwe eze till kingdom come!

Igala business was just a recent history of 18th century, it was never a colonisation but a cultural blending and exchange.....What the Fulanis did in Ilorin is what is called the ultimate Colonisation .....Ilorin will have fulani emirs till thy kingdom come

BabaRamota1980:
Kingdoms march on Kingdoms, not on villages.

They knew NRI and it's Superior JuJu and mysticism was to the east so they didn't dare

TAO11:
I didn’t introduce. Instead, scholars found. And I adduced the evidence .

I understand how all these make you feel though. Lol.

Post a link to your scholarly article so we can read them ourselves , You copy what suits your false IFE narrative to edit paste for us here. To the east of Bini ruled the NRI priest-kings, Ogane being a member of this line of kings

TAO11:
Name me one (just one) identification (by an Igbo or non-Igbo scholar) of the Ogane as an Igbo king. Not even one exist.

On the contrary, all scholars identify the Ogane as the Ooni of Ife because (1)All the received details from that account matches only the Ooni of Ife; (2)Ife is known among the ancient cultures of the Gulf of Guinea as the place from where the sun rises — “Dawn” and “East” being well-know important religious symbolisms of Ife.

You simply introduced religious symbolism to turn East into west , Mr scammer..... Ife is to the west of Bini while Ogane ruled from the East, I'm sure your Waec geography result was F9

BabaRamota1980:
This picture is a tribal group in Cameroon. Not Ibo.
You people have stolen arts and culture from everybody to claim it as Ibo. Stop that nonsense!

Cc
Tao11

You wish ....Read up the Igbo ukwu burial chambers, or Igbo Richard excavations......This early ancient kings where the ultimate bad asses and Bini payed their homage.......None of you have provided any tangible reason why the Bini army never matched East .....they were always doing their conquering towards Yoruba land

BabaRamota1980:
Ok so if we are to assume this ogane is in the Niger-Benue region, in that age Yoruba was the occupier at Niger-Benue confluence in Lokoja, not Ibo.
But we know this is only a theory in that article and not the fact.

On both fact & theory, nothing links ogane to Ibo.

Which age exactly did yeroba occupy lokoja? ....Mr clown

TAO11:
Name in scholar Igbo or non-Igbo who identified Ogane is an Igbo king.

Yes, several kingdoms lie on the east of Benin up to Cameroon and beyond.

All your so called scholars are uninformed and frequently contradicted themselves ....If you want to clear your self go to Anioma or Delta Igbo.....They will clear you on NRI connections to Bini with impeccable facts...they are direct descendants of those that took the long soujourns from Nri to bini

TAO11:
I’m glad you openly admitted (unknowingly) to having no true critique or intelligent response in the light of the evidence, fact and proof which I have submitted.

That shows some growth on your path. Good boy. Cheers.

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980

Your plan is to concort revisionist fables that suit your narrative without providing any links , You are a History G guy Con artist, Ogane was an early forgotten Igbo priest king #fact

TAO11:
Lol. You keep trying hard to magnify your ignorance.

I have already pointed out Ryder’s 1965 hypothesis which differed from the consensus of historical scholarship at the time. But I also pointed out how he traced his step back in 1969 to the realistic conclusion of historical scholarship.

What you obviously could not have known in this regard is that even Ryder himself never looked in the direction of Igboland for in his 1965 article, rather he was looking in the Niger-Benue confluence region.

In other words, all the scholars understand the word “east” as used in the European accounts to be non-literal.

Moreover, the historian Elizabeth Allo Isichei confirmed how Ryder dropped his 1965 solitary and radical view in his 1969 work. Isichei writes:

“It is noteworthy that Ryder, who questioned the Ife connection and argued the case for the linkages with a NORTHERN KINGDOM, abandoned the line of argument in his later book, Benin and the European.” — Elizabeth A. Isichei, “A Historical of Nigeria”, Longman (1983), Volume 2, p.137.


Regarding Lawal (1977) on the other hand, he took off from where Ryder 1965 left and added his own details — all hypothetical, but nothing in the direction of . The following are his precise words:

“None the less, if it is true that this fifteenth century ‘Ogane’ refereed to a Yoruba kingdom further north of Benin or near the middle Niger area, then the only Yoruba kingdom that would seem to have been strong enough during this period to rule Benin would be Old .” — Babatunde Lawal, “The Present State of Art Historical Research in Nigeria: Problems and Possibilities”, Journal of African History, Vol. 18, No. (2). p.211.

It is obvious at this point that you’re caught between a hard rock and a hard place. Lol. But in any case no scholar identified the Ogane to be an Igbo king — not one scholar. Even your attachment shows Ryder (1965) and Lawal (1977) to be putting forward an hypothetical suggestion.

However, what has already been established till date by historical scholarship, on the other hand, is the fact that the Ogane who is describes as the most powerful monarch is none other than the Ooni of Ife.

See: Stoll 1902:161-166; Roth 1903:6n1; Marquart 1913:52; Talbot 1926:1:155-156, 281-282, 3:573; Schurhammer 1928:28-30; Bradbury 1964:151, Paula Marti 1960:63, Mauny 1961:182; Akinjogbin 1967:41-43; Ryder 1969: 31; Law 1973:17-19; Willett 1973:137-138; Obayemi 1976:247; Horton 1979; Bondarenko 2003; Akintoye 2010:141-142.

Adam Knobler in as recent as 2016 simply echoed this conclusion reached all the above galaxy of scholars in historical scholarship as see attached below.

cc: LegendHero, MinorityOpinion, BabaRamota1980.

You are fake, Dubious, And a Con artist , That majority of Igbos lost interest in their Ancient complicated history does not mean all of us have forgotten, Ogane ruled from east across the Niger which the Bini knew as orhimwili while Igbos call it orimili or oshimili......Ife is too young

MinorityOpinion:
Please only quote me when you have evidence I'm tired of you repeating the same thing. I won't reply if u continue doing that.

What other evidence do you need, Bini monarchs told of a king that reigned supreme from the east called Ogane, it is clear to this day that Nri priests and emissaries journeyed to Bini Through modern day delta state, just look at the hundreds of Igbo towns littered between the two all the way to modern day Edo state......This is an open truth

MinorityOpinion:
Read it finish before conclusion. Point out where ogane is igbo King. Bring it here bro

What happen to Nri kingdom? Why is it not relevant today? Why did Benin disconnect from the Nri?

Do you know the relationship between Ooni and oba Benin? These are the things that will solidify that igbo have superiority over Benin. You have to prove it

Going to Ife from Bini is the other way, No Ogane there.. only Oduduwa a run away prince from Bini

MinorityOpinion:
Read it finish before conclusion. Point out where ogane is igbo King. Bring it here bro

What happen to Nri kingdom? Why is it not relevant today? Why did Benin disconnect from the Nri?

Do you know the relationship between Ooni and oba Benin? These are the things that will solidify that igbo have superiority over Benin. You have to prove it

I had to simplify this geographic headache for you, this is what you will get from Bini if you go east, Now you know where Ogane ruled from

coolitempa:
Ode.....do you know the meaning of agbero at all? You better stay put in erosion land and improve your land rather than be disgracing your life here....

I understand Agbero is a top profession like Doctor or Lawyer to the yeroba people, that parents even encourage their children to become street urchins

[s]

TAO11:
You’re obviously a miseducated rookie. Read and be educated:

(1) The idea that Ekaladerhan is Oduduwa was first made-up out of inferiority complex by the Edos in the 1970s.

The Edo guys involved in this fabrication are:
(a) S.B. Omoregie' "Edo History", 1970 (b) E. Akenzua's "Benin was never a Republic", 1971 (c) D.U. Edebiri's "Whence the Igodomidos", 1970, and (d) A. Iyare's "Bini, Ife Dynasties", 1973.

As is to be expected in their amateurish works, they could not name a single source or informant for their totally strange account.

To make it all worse, during his coronation of 1978-9, the incoming Omo N'Oba N'Edo (Oba Erediauwa) announced this unsubstantiated fabrication for the first time to the Edo public. He also did that out of a mix inferiority as well as political/legal necessity against the Ogiamen lawsuit.

(2) However, this fabrication of attempting to equate Ekaladerhan as one and the same person as Oduduwa has been debunked and trashed (in academia) as a hoax, that is -- an interesting nonsense.

For example, D. M. Bondarenko who is the world's leading authority on precolonial Benin History today has the following to say on pages 67-68 of his "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty" in relation to this fabricated account:

"Finally, there are the apocryphal versions of Benin oral tradition [wherein] Ekaladerhan ... later ... left Gwato for Ife. ... and became her first ruler under the name of Oduduwa.

However, a student of ancient Benin might feel obliged to reject the apocryphal versions without hesitation as deliberately unauthentic.

There are no their records made before the early 1970s* , while among common people the story of Ekaladerhan that ends with the Prince's banishing from Benin and subsequent dethronement of his father, the last Ogiso Owodo, is known (and was recorded hundred years ago)*. There is no doubt that the apocryphal versions are not ancient and are not popular. Their authors are representatives of the nationalistically-minded part of the Bini intelligentsia who are seeking to ground the idea of an exceptional antiquity for their people and claims for its exclusive part in the sociopolitical life of independent Nigeria*. Behind such pseudohistorical studies by intellectuals, as if harmless, one can make out serious problems of the country, interests of political clans based on their members' ethnic community*."

(3) On the contrary to the above obvious 1970s fabrication on Ekaladerhan, Bini traditions has long been recorded by Europeaans to the effect that the Oba dynasty of Benin originated from Ife.

For example, Oba EwekaII in the 1920s had informed an European visitor, H.L. Ward-Price that his Lord&God (in human flesh) lives in Ife.

He added that he must pray to this "Oghene" every morning (at the illumination of the first sun rays at dawn), before he prays to the Alaafin, before he then prays for himself, and then for all Yoruba kings.

See: H.L. Ward-Price, Dark Subjects (London, 1939), p.238.

(4) A final example will be on the tradition of sending certain remains of deceased Benin Kings (their heads to be precise) back to Ife for burial at a designated site for the purpose.

(a) The Bini traditional Chief J. Uwadiae Egharevba (who is the first indigenous Edo to document Bini traditions from the 1930s) documented this custom too. He writes:

"The head of the royal corpse was subsequently exhumed and taken to the royal ancestral grave at Ile-Ife; but this was done in every third reign."

J.U. Egharevba, Benin Law and Custom, (CMS Niger Press, Port Harcourt, 1946), p.72.

(b) Dr. R.E. Bradbury (who devoted years to intensive anthropological field work on Benin and the Edo-speaking peoples, and who is the outstanding authority on the subject) is also said to have documented similar customs while among the Binis.

A.F.C. Ryder notes on footnote 10 of his "A Reconsideration of the Ife and Benin Relationship" as follows:

"In a personal communication, Dr R.E. Bradbury points out that 'the Edo speak of the messengers who carried the Oba's remains to Ife taking about three years over the journey."

(c) Frank Willett is also noted to have said that the last ocassion of the practice of sending the exhumed heads of Benin Kings to Ife was in the year 1888.

D.M. Bondarenko makes a note of this statement in his "Advent of the Second (Oba) Dynasty" as follows:

"These sources point at the Benin Oba's succession from the Ooni of Ife expressed in ritual forms. Particularly, "as a recognition of this fact deceased rulers' heads were sent to Ife for burial at Orun-Oba-Ado site ... last time this happened in 1888. In its turn, a bronze depiction of the head was usually sent back from Ife to Benin" (Willett 1982:22)."

[/s] Cc Etinosa come see, this clown has Brought up their Dubious IFE claim on Bini lands again

Anyway tell me again how IFE lies to the East of bini because the sun rises from the west in your own weird little world , You are especially skilled in concorting lies, I like your stories

MinorityOpinion:
Cc legendhero, Sammy07, ThatFairGuy, Etinosa1234, obalatule, babaramota1980 and others Pls open a new thread and all comments must have reference, no insult and joking, straight facts. This is getting annoying I want to see where the Nri now become ogane. Create new thread Pls.

To further make it simple so others can prepare their facts, let us make it tomorrow night.

Thank you for that link , It buries you IFE argument for the origin of The Ogane ruler....Ogane ruled the east from where the Bini obas received their Ofor

totit:
I don't know how you come to that conclusion tho because the overall stats shows that SW has the lowest unemployment rates. So,I really don't know what made you said that.

You no get one atom of shame ..Tueh!!

TAO11:
Do you mind convincing me on why we must disregard that screenshot of the conclusion of historical scholarship and trust you instead?? Thank you.

Also, the understanding that the “east” in the Portuguese account is of a religious significance in relation to Ife, rather than literal, is according to historical scholarship. I cited all the sources in that same comment. Read the comment again, but this time more slowly.

Regarding Ife’s supremacy, it is sufficient to quote from Suzanne P. Blier’s “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba”. She noted rightly that:

“During the era of Ife’s greatest historic power, the twelfth to the fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to the Niger River and westward to what is today Southern Togo.”

I guess Benin Kingdom is outside of the above geographical delineation. Lol. Moreover, in 1897 Captain Roupell collected accounts from Benin Kingdom which says that Benin’s first king [Eweka (I)] is a Yoruba man from Ife. — Roupell’s Official cited in H.L. Roth, 1903, p.7.

Furthermore, a c.1300 ‘bronze’ figure of the Ooni of Ife was excavated from the palace of Benin Kingdom. See attached. The attached screenshot is from Professor Suzanne P. Blier’s “Art in Ancient Ife”.

Like I have educated you before, the Igbos and their western neighbors, the Binis did have engagements. You just have to read. Similarly, the Yoruba also engaged their Easter neighbors, the Binis. Wars are natural part of human history. You didn’t know that.

IFE is sub-ordinate to Bini, stop trying to dupe Bini of their heritage , ThankGod they woke up on time to your antics, Pikin wan senior im papa

OfoIgbo:
“If, as has been suggested, Nri theocratic sway could be identified with the culture whose material symbols Shaw recovered in his Igbo-Ukwu excavations, then that factor must be dated to between the 9th and 11th century A.D. or indeed earlier. In that case, Nri influence would be much older than the political and military hegemony centered around Benin and Idah. It may indeed have contributed something to their rise. There are suggestions of this in the tradition, found not only amongst the Nri but also amongst the Bini and the Igala that Nri ritual priests had important parts to play in ceremonies connected with the coronation of the Oba of Benin and the Attah of Igala. Both Jeffreys and Lawton, administrative officers, unearthed evidence to this effect. Thus, it would appear, Nri activities linked much of Igbo-land with the West Niger region up to Benin, and with the region occupied by the Igala and perhaps it also linked Igboland with Idoma land. Many of these links survived, at least, until the 1930s and may still be there in form of the activities of Nri and related traditional medicine man.”

Afigbo 1987

With the above, Afigbo has shown himself to be superior to Knobler, the white man. Trust an Igbo man to show excellent scholarly mien
Please bear in mind that the researcher that wrote the above was not aware of the Portuguese exploration of Benin in the 1400s

Yoruba attempt to change EAST to WEST will be pulled down
MinorityOpinion, TAO11 and the other. Oya food don land

Hellraiser77 nwannem nwoke, I got them by their shriveled balls now. They will have to counter Jeffreys, Lawton and Prof. Afigbo,

The KINGDOM TO THE EAST is gradually and unstoppably showing its hands

Yeroba and their history is irredeemably dubious , Realising their folly they have moved the argument to sunrise and sunset, Ogane can't be anything apart from a very Early Igbo ruler

[s]

TAO11:
Do you mind convincing me on why we must disregard that screenshot of the conclusion of historical scholarship and trust you instead?? Thank you.

Also, the understanding that the “east” in the Portuguese account is of a religious significance in relation to Ife, rather than literal, is according to historical scholarship. I cited all the sources in that same comment. Read the comment again, but this time more slowly.

Regarding Ife’s supremacy, it is sufficient to quote from Suzanne P. Blier’s “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba”. She noted rightly that:

“During the era of Ife’s greatest historic power, the twelfth to the fifteenth centuries C.E., its influence spanned eastward to the Niger River and westward to what is today Southern Togo.”

I guess Benin Kingdom is outside of the above geographical delineation. Lol. Moreover, in 1897 Captain Roupell collected accounts from Benin Kingdom which says that Benin’s first king [Eweka (I)] is a Yoruba man from Ife. — Roupell’s Official cited in H.L. Roth, 1903, p.7.

Furthermore, a c.1300 ‘bronze’ figure of the Ooni of Ife was excavated from the palace of Benin Kingdom. See attached. The attached screenshot is from Professor Suzanne P. Blier’s “Art in Ancient Ife”.

Like I have educated you before, the Igbos and their western neighbors, the Binis did have engagements. You just have to read. Similarly, the Yoruba also engaged their Easter neighbors, the Binis. Wars are natural part of human history. You didn’t know that.

[/s] You can't force East to become west so Ogane can be Ooni bros, The Bini obas never moved their army East cos Ogane was there, it was always west